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May 30, 2010



Thanks Mel and TC. Only at JOM can one get really good answers to almost any question!

Since the bread on offer at the supermarket is often from a big commercial baker (i.e. Orowheat), the color difference between the two were almost undiscernable. My guess was the "seasoning." Maybe the "black" caraway seeds in Russian rye are the answer.

Thomas Collins

More in the LUN (via Volokh via Instapundit)on the 100% totally unprovoked Israeli attack on the gentle flotilla of peace loving flower children.


Oh, and the Oroweat website describes their Russion rye this way:

"The rich taste of rye gets a Russian twist in this classic."

That's it! Informative, huh? pheh.

Thomas Collins

Central, I've always preferred what I thought was Jewish rye, but I also like rye with carraway seeds, so perhaps I am really eating Russian rye without knowing it.

Thomas Collins

Whoops! Didn't mean to cut off part of your JOM name, centralcal. Multitasking is not my strength (I am posting while making poached eggs on whole wheat muffins (no rye in the house at the moment)).

Bill in AZ

"Sorry, I don't know who Dr. Gina Loudon is and from her website it looks like she might be from St. Louis."

ahh yes, you are correct, she is from Missouri. I now recall she worked "Show Me" into her great talk. There were other folks at the event from Ohio and I mixed them up. It was definitely a StandWithArizona event with folks from many different states. Texas, Ohio, Missouri, Washington (state), California, probably a few I'm forgetting.

Old Lurker

"The offer to call if she or y'all ever need anything is always open."

Ditto that, TC.


T.C. you can call me cc, like everybody else! lol. Much easier to type initials only (like I just did for you).

Captain Hate

the 100% totally unprovoked Israeli attack on the gentle flotilla of peace loving flower children.

I'm thinking of having a memorial breakfast of pancakes in honor of Rachel Corrie, patron saint of weapons smuggling tunnels and Caterpillar lubrication.

Bill in AZ

Another observation from the StandWithArizona event: Libs and the local newspapers (but I repeat myself) frequently whine that Sheriff Joe is a media whore, pulls his stunts just to get media attention. I generally try to counter that when I see it on blogs with the simple fact that the media follows Sheriff Joe around 24/7 - they just can't help themselves.

At the event, Sheriff Joe was like a rock star. It took probably 30 minutes for him to make it the 100 feet or so from where he entered the stadium to the podium while other speakers were on. 10, 15, 20 cameras on him at all times, granting on camera interviews on the spot, signing autographs, posing for pictures with kids, moms, dads, grandmas, grandpas, gracious all the way. And he is the media whore? It's real simple - he does the job he was elected to do, and is very effective at it. Folks here simply appreciate that.


It's real simple - he does the job he was elected to do, and is very effective at it. Folks here simply appreciate that.

I don't know about everyone else, but I am starved for leaders like that. He does his job, no apologies. Gov. Chris Christie has the same appeal so far.


--Ignatz: it could be that Reagan's unilateral withdrawal from Beirut was a clearer example of appeasement than his agreemen to provide the government of Iran with weapons in exchange for their help in getting hostages released, but you've got to admit, it's a close call.--

Your contention was that the Iran Contra affair was somehow "the biggest act of appeasement" in our country's history.
It of course wasn't even the most egregious appeasement regarding the Iran contra affair itself; that distinctrion belonging to the "dear Commandante" congress which gave us the Boland amendment to protect the communist Sandinista's who were actively destabilizing all of their neighbors.
And that appeasement in turn pales into insignificance to FDR at Yalta which sealed eastern Europe's fate, Nixon's detente, continued by Ford and Carter which gave us countless Soviet adventures across the globe and the revolting denial of aid to South Vietnam in order to curry favor with the North and the USSR after we had left Viet Nam which gave us the massacres of the South and the boat people. There have been more of course but those suffice to demonstrate the dishonesty of your contention.

--Lest we forget: (last line's the clincher)--

Your contention was that on every key question Reagan could not remember. Even your edited and truncated transcript demonstrates that is a falsehood.
In any event most objective people would consider this line the clincher not the last one:

A. No. But I have to point out that this continued saying of ''I don't recall,'' that so many meetings - and I have been told by statisticians that my average of meetings with people was about 80 a day for eight years - that I don't recall these meetings. And not because they weren't important, and I am sure that I dealt with things at the time.

bunker buster is just a young fool.  He'll learn.

Reagan should have been the memory expert at Libby's trial. That's a very wise statement, right there, Iggy.


"bunker buster is just a young fool. He'll learn"

binkyfuster would need at least 20 pts to have any chance to "learn the way" out of stupid

my prediction binky is an aspiring cleo ... selection of topics and targets is purely to annoy and distract


the 100% totally unprovoked Israeli attack on the gentle flotilla of peace loving flower children.

IMO events are gonna get much worse for Israel. We step aside, and they are on their own....and the thugs of the world know it.


I fear you are right, Janet, the kind of blind ignorance in the LUN illustrates the point

Jane says obamasucks

Is anyone else here a Vince Flynn fan? What's his best?

Captain Hate

ugh narciso; I clicked on that link and was met with the likes of Joan Brown Campbell, whore of the antichrist, Jew hater and mother of worthless fatassed former mayor of Cleveland Jane Campbell.


I though the blind ignorance was the tip Captain, I didn't know the connection was so close to home


Jane, I recommend starting with the first book "Term Limits" and reading them in order. IMO, his books are great.
Any of them can be read along but IMO the whole theme flows better if read in Order.
Don't forget www.betterworldbooks.com will have them (and millions of others) for $3.98 ea shipped free to your door.

Jane says obamasucks

Thanks Pagar,

I'm already out of order but I'm going to that site to check it out.


His last two, kind of read like companions to Thiessen's Courting Disaster, the upcoming one is kind of a prequel, how Mitch Rapp became who we saw in Term Limits

JM Hanes


"I expected Copenhagen to fail because that attempted shakedown would fail. It did fail, at least partly because Obama attempted a back room deal among the rich, and that gave the poor a podium from which to announce their outrage over the duplicity in order to hide their disappointment at the failure of the shakedown."

Nobody says it better than you, Kim!

I bet that one put Copenhagen on the No Fly list in ink. Obama must have been pleased as punch when Anders Fogh Rasmussen took over as NATO Secretary General. Not that Obama has ever shown any interest in NATO, even when he was chairing the NATO subcommittee in the Senate.

Speaking of NATO, Bush was a stalwart champion of cementing Turkish ties to the west, (as well as restructuring and revitalizing NATO itself). Too bad Colin Powell was so busy with his own DC agenda that he didn't have time for his President's. Western Europe shut out Turkey at every turn, with predictable results. It's the speed with which secular Turkey, which had a real working relationship with Israel, disappeared that is breathtaking -- or ought to be.

JM Hanes


"Dare to be Dull..."

You may be having what a friend of mine calls a "Fit of the Mediocres," but I'm trying to remember the last time a comment of yours struck me as dull. I can't even remember a first time.


Exactly so,JMH. I'dadd that my friend who is most knowledgeable about Turkety always maintained that in the war in Iraq mnimal diplomacy on our part would have assured we got permission to pass our troops thru. The failure to do this, created a logistical nightmare for our generals.


Good morning Kim,

"I happen to believe, on very little evidence, that it was that drumbeat which convinced the one who released the (CRU) emails to do so."

I seem to recall that Harrabin was the first to receive a portion of the leaked ClimateGate e-mails, but that he sat on them and stayed mumm. Then 2 or 3 weeks later, when they were re-leaked via the Russian website to the rest of the planet, Harrabin belatedly admitted he'd received them.

Since it appears from Harrabin's latest BBC story that Harrabin obviously has some insider access to lower ranking science guys who remain concerned that the wheels are and were coming off at the Royal Society concerning AGW, your guess makes decent sense to me. Seeing Harrabin do nothing, whoever leaked this had to opt for a full data dump to the world wide web to get the data out.

Does that make sense to you and do you think we'll ever get the full facts on who actually leaked the ClimateGate documents?

Janet the mediocre

JM Hanes, Thanks. I wanted to tell you that after we met for the 9-12 JOM lunch I told my husband about that neat little gizmo you had. He's been searching for me, and recently came up with a little Lucky Strike traveling ash tray. It is so clever and wonderful. I love little things like that. Something different. Anyway, I guess this is a confession of being covetous!

The Joker in the deck is the sunspots leaving the visible spectrum in another half decade, a process already beginning.

Yes, though speculative, it makes sense. One thing that amused me is that even after the 'miracle just happened', whoever released the emails was chagrined to find that nothing seemingly happened for a couple of days. The initial assumption was that it was a trick, and those understanding the emails were searching for clues to authenticity. They actually got their clue from a contemporaneous email from East Anglia speaking of a breach of security at the University.

I sincerely hope we eventually find out the name of whomever leaked this information. It has been transformational in the debate, miraculously so, because ordinary scientists could see how the hoax took shape through the misbehaviour of scientists. The world owes the leaker big time, but the leaker is still afraid, as would be I, because this thing is not yet over. It is going to take significant cooling to kill the beast, and just how much cooling, or for how long, even my most trusted expert doesn't know.

Art Horn, at the American Thinker, has a nice article about the coming cooling, but he's counting on two things which aren't certain; Katla aflame, and the sun's contributions, which no one understands.


It's the speed with which secular Turkey, which had a real working relationship with Israel, disappeared that is breathtaking -- or ought to be.

So true JMH and glad for your comment.

Several years ago on travels I met an elderly Jewish couple from Turkey vacationing in Everett WA.
At the time Russia was tromping around in Georgia and that topic came up in the conversation.
This couple were on Russia's side of the situation--points I didn't quibble with for sure.
But Russia cannot be comfortable with the more extreme Islamist thinking coming to the fore in Turkey.

Melinda Romanoff

Visible is such a narrow slice of the spectrum, that I wouldn't give too much heft to that specific concern, but that might be too simple, at first glance.

It's the interactions at other levels, like that massive coronal flux, that give me pause to think just what things like that can push around...


Kim, I think the following sums it up well.

"CSIRO, The Bureau of Meteorology, the UK Royal Society, the American National Academy of Sciences and hundreds of other organisations have all nailed their colours to the climate change mast, abandoning objective scientific enquiry in favour of environmental advocacy. As the Royal Society has discovered, it only works for so long, before credibility starts to disappear."

" So it simply disappeared inconvenient evidence to the contrary, in the process announcing it cannot be trusted ever again to deliver objective scientific evidence."

Wild cards abound.

Whoa, it's Art Horn at Pajamas Media.

Right, Mel, but the last two times the sunspots left the visible spectrum, during the Maunder and Dalton Minimums, the globe cooled. Mechanism of solar action? Completely unknown.

There was also increased vulcanism during those minimums which raised the earth's albedo, or reflectivity, and could have caused the cooling noted.

It is important to realize that even though the spots are leaving the visible spectrum, the workings of the sun's dynamo continue, and total energy from the sun may well not drop. If the sunspots effect climate, it is not from the direct energy production of the sun.

Yep, coronal fluxes might have a role, and the solar wind, too. We do not know.

So, interesting times.

Egged on, and thank God, overegged.

Yeah, Pagar, this is an amazing scandal. I said years ago that hundreds of PhD theses in the history, philosophy, and socialogy of science will eventually be written about this remarkable episode.

Truly, an extraordinary popular delusion, and madness of the crowd.


Captain Hate,

I want to congratulate you on not taking maximum glee in the victory of your MaryLand Lady Terp's yesterday in winning the Womens'">http://www.theacc.com/sports/w-lacros/recaps/053010aaa.html">Womens' LaCrosse National Championships over Tom Collin's daughter's Northwestern Wildcats, 13-11.

You had ample opportunity to razz TC bigtime over the way your girls fought like champions yesterday and trounced the snot out of his Northwestern gals, yet you kindly and graciously said nothing, due I am sure to the concern of everyone here pulling for TC's daughter to get an apartment somewhere near DC.

That touched me man, really touched me--- giving up an opportunity to stick the old knife in and twist it with glee. Don't know if I could have done it myself, but of course my girls stink so I didn't have to deal with the problem.

Anyhow, just wanted to congratulate you for that magnanimous behavior on that great Maryland victory over TC's Northwestern girls, and especially that wonderful example of ACC decency, humility, and humbleness you displayed, as others here might not have noticed:)


"will eventually be written about this remarkable episode."

Kim, I'm not sure there will be any one to write them.

Have you been following the saga of the cheating British Treasury chiefs, the one that followed the saga of the cheating American treasury chiefs. EU Referendum covers it fairly well. Here's one of his links.

" According to The Daily Telegraph: “He also regularly claimed up to £150 a month for utilities and £200 a month for service and maintenance until parliamentary authorities began demanding receipts. Claims then dropped to only £37 a month for utility bills and £74 a month for his share of the council tax. Claims for service, maintenance and repairs dropped dramatically to less than £25 a month.”

If the politicians will cheat on one thing, they'll cheat on all things, and the difference now between politician and sciencists can not be determined.

Janet the mediocre

Well, I am now officially doing more harm than good. I was just at the grocery store where I lost my new Arizona lapel pin.
Now someone is gonna step on it - like a tack - and REALLY be mad at Arizona!

Maybe an illegal immigrant will step on it....

Captain Hate

daddy, if being a Terp means anything it means being a gracious victor. Although any achievement by the Lesbian Lady Terps is a mixed blessing because it gives our AD Chairman Yow ammunition with which to frag Gary, Ralph and any other revenue producing sports in College Park.

Still I illustrated my support of wimmens athletics at Maryland by dating a decidedly non-same-sexer on the basketball and field hockey team. In fact I pissed off everybody else in the dorm by challenging any two of them to take her and me on at hoops; nobody ever took us up on it.

Melinda Romanoff


I hadn't looked at Khan Academy before Insty linked it yesterday, but it is without a doubt, bookmark worthy. Subject matter is amazing.

I think the visible spectrum question might be a mask to other IR perturbations that might play in.

If one were to design an experiment to test this "spectral engine", you would need a really, really big lab table and a bucket, or two, of sensors....

Kleine Kahn Danke.

Well, we've just put up a solar studying satellite which will help a lot.

Melinda Romanoff

Like my bucket?

Thomas Collins

Daddy, my Deadhorser is currently offline on Facebook (which is probably a good thing since she has two end of quarter papers due), but when I get in contact with her I'll check on the Wildcat reaction to falling short against the Terps. In any event, congrats to the University of Maryland JOMers for your women's lacrosse team's NCAA Division 1 championship.

Melinda Romanoff

I was thinking more along the lines of someting, solar stationary, outside the lunar lap, and a big grid over the planet (especially the poles) to see if there was a sort of flux that was measureable, say the Earth's magnetic moment radiating a reactive wave to Solar magnetic "pump".

The new Sat might have it on board, don't know. I am pitifully out of date.

Still fun to learn about though, thanks for keeping up the elbowing in class!

Melinda Romanoff


Never mentioned it earlier, but thanks for the earlier links. I hope your daughter doesn't drown her sorrows at Mustard's, or Dave's Kitchen. 13-11 is a close game, a shootout, but a close game. And a multi-year run like they've had is nothing to shake a stick at, either.

Thomas Collins

Mel, thanks for the hints on watering holes to have my spies monitor! :-)) She turns 21 this Friday, and yesterday I Facebook chatted her on the joys of responsible sipping. She told me she had already decided that her first drink (I didn't press her on whether it was first drink or first legal drink) would be a margherita at Chili's.

The Women Wildcats certainly have had a great lacrosse run, and runnerup isn't too shabby.

Fits of Epileptic Insight.

Bucket's bigger than the satellite by a lot. Cheaper, too, by a lot.

I don't know the capabilities of the new satellite. I know Leif Svalgaard is excited by its powers.

There are advocates of some of your ideas out there, but I'm not terribly current with them. They must be second order effects and gads there must be a multitude of them to wonder about. A critical point about the sun/climate interaction to remember is that the energy output of the sun only varies around a half percent from maximum to minimum, not enough to account for wider variations in climate. So there must be a multiplier of some effect of the sun in order to account for the wide climate variations, if the sun does direct the climate. Now how to have a multiplier without the likelihood of a runaway effect, which has never happened, is the thorny problem.

One of my best jokes on Climate Audit years ago was that if anyone thought I was talking out of class, my rejoinder would be that I was just auditing the class. I've always been scientifically outclassed there, and sometimes elsewhere, but it amazes me how well I can keep up with the controversies despite my technical limitations.

So, there are pads on my elbows, and a helmet on my head, all for my own protection, of course.

Sometimes I can't stay awake.

Oh, heck. Seized with fits of insight would have been better.

Melinda Romanoff

Only one of those serves alcohol (Dave's Italian Kitchen, Baked Spaghetti, mmmm), and Mustard's is short for Mustard's Last Stand, a hot dog joint on the west side of the Dyche Stadium parking lot (Bratwurst, but don't watch them make it, It takes a little swim to get the casing crispy.)

Tell her to go to Sarkis' for breakfast the next day and have a "disaster". Cures all ills.

Melinda Romanoff


running out for dinner, but I think we only know of electro-magnetic energy variances, there might well be others, and I don't know enough to rule them out entirely. Call it an unknown with potential consequences.

More later.

Did I say 'hopeless'?  Naw, never.

I wonder if I should tell you about Oliver K. Manuel, the Iron Sun Dude. He believes the sun is an iron ball rather than a hydrogen ball, and is quite interesting to read. And the electric universe people are quite entertaining, too.

There are mysteries. One thing that is not a mystery is that the universe is larger than human understanding.

My analogy is to the digital computers running the Global Climate Models in the hopeless effort to mimic the gigantic analogue computer that is the earth and its climate regulating mechanism. So is the human brain to the universe, or to the mind of God, whichever.

Thomas Collins

Mel, that Disaster at Sarkis' is quite the breakfast, I see. For those wondering what a Disaster is, see LUN.

Manuel Transmission

Kim, (and Mel) I have spent my whole life reading/listening outside the nominal bounds of my training and rarely found areas that I couldn't grasp the essence. (That served me well in the years of contract research I used to do.) I love how often the core of a 'thing' pops out with the right frame of mind.

What it has also revealed to me is that the iconoclasts (deniers?) are often more in tune with the reality even when they don't have the specifics exactly right. My fav in that realm is Hap Arp. It may take another century, but I think he will be proven more right than Wegener was in his niche.


I won't dishonor the Memorial Day thread with this but there is for certain a Getty photographer that doesn't like MO too:


Check out Obama's face!

I couldn't be more thrilled with the way this weekend turned out for him.

That guy could juggle variables.

I love Erl Hepp and think he may finally figure it all out. Some of his ideas are recognizable in recent thinking. Bob Tisdale's lately gotten a handle on the oceanic oscillations, temperature and barometric, and it appears that the clock mechanism is in there somewhere.

I've wished John Harrison were around to think about it.


Check out Obama's face!

Maybe HE stepped on my Arizona pin? Was this picture taken in a Safeway parking lot by chance? That woman in green looks like she's dressed for grocery shopping.



I'm not hep to hip hop Happ erl arp, but would love some links to whomever or whatever it is if you got some handy.


Ann! Priceless. Thong lines?


In honor of Arizona :

wedgie {noun}
calzón chino {m} [Mex.]


If I didn't know better I'd think she's wearing a jock strap.

The sun is very sultry and we must avoid its ultry-violet rays.  H/t NC.

Omigod, Erl Happ. Sorry, pal.

Erl had a long standing discussion with Leif Svalgaard at climate audit and elsewhere over his belief that it is the variation in the ultraviolet radiation which is the component of the sun's output which effects the climate. Leif pooh poohed it but there was a lot of wisdom in Erl's understanding of the tropical ocean and atmosphere. He's a viniculturist in Southwest Australia, and as fine a gentleman as you'd care to meet on the web.

Rick Ballard

"Thong lines?"

Does Spanx make industrial grade thongs?


LOL! Too funny daddy, just too funny!

Evil Ann

Let's look closer, Caro.


No, my daughter says it is a granny panty wedge.

To bad we can't make our own avatars here at JOM. :)

IANA Seer.

So, daddy, I know you've been everywhere, man, but just exactly how do you know better?


Hey, Mel, that was a trip! The people who own Mustards Last Stand live on the corner up from my parents, in the "House Of the Future" from the 1932 World's Fair. And Sarkis' daughter was a HS classmate of mine.

Buffy St. Michele.

OK, so what exercises, Kegel or otherwise, produce that definition?

Seymore Butts

Definitely not a jock strap.

Manuel Transmission

OK, a little too obtuse:

Halton Arp (LUN), famous/infamous astronomer who has made strong arguments that much of the redshift seen out there is NOT velocity induced. If not, then almost everything ever inferred about the universe is wrong!

His book Seeing Red(1998) is quite readable, but he has covered a lot of ground since that even further nails down a very different universe than we are (smugly) told.


So what explains the red shift them. and how does that influence our understanding of the universe

Janet "Dare to be Dull..."

redshift vs. pantyshift

Ya gotta love the varied conversations at JOM.

and something is wrong in the universe alright!

Halton Arp, Erl Happ.  I like that.

Ah, thanks for the tip, MT. I've heard of Halton Arp distantly, but have recently heard Leif Svalgaard detail the three observational proofs of the standard view of the redshift, one of which I understood.

Note Leif Svalgaard at the intersection of my understanding of those two men?

But you are right; if Arp is correct, we've been radically wrong. Yes, on a greater scale than continental drift, too.

Everything else about the Universe I've made up for myself.  Standing tall somehow.

Isn't the 98% Dark Matter the key to the controversy? Real, or invented to explain the redshift?

I took Physics 1 at one university which used the first twelve chapters of a textbook and got an A. I took Physics 2 at another university which used the first nine chapters of the same textbook and got a B, because I didn't have files from which to copy lab writeups.

Wood and ivory, keep track of the decimal.

Hmm, I guess I meant 'dark matter, real, or unreal and imagined in order to explain red shift.'

Washington DC Web Design

Great Blog and comments! Ive learned a lot about corn :)



Well Pete,

Just wait till we get off the cereal grains and do the tuber's such as potatoes. Man is this place going to be rockin' then!

Manuel Transmission

So what explains the red shift them

All the stuff with extreme red shift is young (quasars, etc.) having been recently birthed out of certain classes of active galaxies. That part is pretty much observation (if you don't divert your eyes like certain popes). The why is more speculative and may have to do with propagation times for the new stuff to fully interact with the rest of the universe.

All the stuff about dark matter and energy is ad hoc fudging the data to fit the theories, just like AGW.


Granny underwear? No way. I say bikini underwear 5 sizes too small!

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