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June 13, 2010

Comments

I don't know anybody who works for BP.

I think they expect the ability will be magically given, just because they ask.
===============

centralcal

Competence and leadership? LMAO - dream on NYTimes suckers!

Waiting for Godot.

Mike Giles

Hmm. I see it's the usual lies and distortions from the NY Times. I think it's now well known by now, that BP told Obama everything (about the likely size of the spill) from the jump. He just sat on the information.

The Possessed.

No Exit.
====

Melinda Romanoff

They tried to find ways to use it to their advantage. Hard to do when they're not too bright to begin with.

What would Sarah Do?  Now there's an adopted daughter of some sort of spirit.

I suspect the poor fuck thinks he's railing at the moneychangers.
=============

Now where did you say he was born?  Show me the birth certificate.

I've been reading about Alcuin and Adoptionism. It became heresy to believe that Jesus was the adopted son of God.
======================

Clarice

If anyone knows what competence is, it's the NYT.The paper also has an unbroken record of spotting and endorsing men and women with real qualities of leadership in and outside of the paper's boardroom.

Captain Hate

Wow, after watching Carly Fiorina slap down Shep Chris "Have you called the chimney-sweep to apologize about your comment about her hair" Wallace, and effectively answer all his douchey questions, the M'am must be shaking in her tweed suits.

sylvia

The Times is going to turn on Obama because they are finally getting that he is not their ally on Israel, what with the UN commission on the Israeli boat incident. The other stuff is smoke screen.

So about the leak, I need to google some stuff. How big is the diameter of the hole and the cap? Instead of capping the leak, why not funnel the leak? Any cap has the risk of blowing off and leakage because of all the pressure. But if you funnel the leak, the pressure is directed upwards, and the oil will rise to the top where it can be collected. So why can't that be done? Is the size just too big to come up with something to go around it? It doesn't really look like it on the clips. Maybe put a bunch of smaller funnels together, like a pack of straws. Well that's my idea.

Thomas Collins

I ask for off topic indulgence on this Sunday morning. Today could be a historic day in thoroughbred horse racing, as Zenyatta attempts to break the consecutive victory record she currently shares with Citation, Cigar and Mister Friskey. See LUN.

OK, back to the sclerotic pseudo-elites of the NYT dipping their toes in the "disenchantment with our hero" water.

hit and run

But a year and a half into this presidency, the contemplative nature that was so appealing in a candidate can seem indecisive in a president, just like Republicans warned us. His promise of bipartisanship seems naïve, just like Republicans warned us. His inclination to hold back, then ride to the rescue, has sometimes made problems worse, just like Republicans warned us they would.

And that last sentence,in perhaps another year...

These are matters of competence and leadership. But after two and a half years into this presidency This is a time for Mr. Obama seems perfectly incapable to decisively show both either, just like Republicans warned us.

sylvia

Tom, I didn't hear cries from you or any other Repubs to regulate the oil industry before this. In fact, it is true that the Repub mantra is, government get out of the way, and the private sector will solve all. I believe Obama is correct, and the banking scandal and the oil leak are two great examples that government is the only one who is going to do the sort of things that the private companies won't. And this does show the irony of people, who want the government to get out of the way, now begging for the government to help them. You all should be man enough to admit it.

You know Glen Beck is really getting old to me now, because he keeps talking about how this country started going downhill when we started getting more regs in like 1910, or so, with Wilson and FDR. Do we really want to go back to Dickinsonian times and other good old days with orphans begging for food in the street and meat packing plants where workers regularly lost fingers? No. This shows that government and private business are best as counterweights to each other.

Captain Hate

hit, at least some of your bolded statements should be amended to just like Republicans except for McCain warned us. The toothless "Maverick's" unwillingness to say what all of us knew probably didn't cause his defeat, but it certainly didn't help his cause.

Thomas Collins

OK, here I go OT again. From the inaugural installment of Clarice's Pieces (writing about a some entertainment bozo who doesn't think society is "green" enough):

"They [the entertainment figure and his wife, also an entertainer] have a carbon footprint as big as the CBO underestimation of the cost of ObamaCare."

I know the entire article has been linked on another thread, but I think it is worth a LUN on this thread.

Well, also, if you'd thought such a thing on Day One.

sylvia, actually you've got the right idea. They've put a leaky cap on now, leading to a funnel and are running as much as they can to the surface. There are two problems; they can't process fast enough at the surface, and they can't close the leaks in the cap, because the pressure is still too high.

Basically, they are trying to vacuum clean the sea floor a mile down, and they can't manage it yet. Huge engineering challenges, and very possibly, the relief wells will be the only solution, and those are still a couple of months off.

Much as so many criticize you, had Obama listened to you on Day One, we'd be a whole lot closer to ending this mess. So, there is that to say about you.
==============

Gmax

The law of unintended consequences strikes again. You give government insurance of deposits, raised it multiple times and then declare the government is the only one who can fix this problem! Or ban drilling in the easy places and lather rinse repeat. Liberals are so stupid, they dont even recognize when its Democrat Party policies which are the problem, and NO, more govt rarely fixes the mess...

Neo

The only lesson learned from Katrina is that virtually nothing was learned.

In the past week or so, the President has made noises about those who would want smaller government ... well take a look Mr. President, your bigger government can't seem to do "dick" .. would a smaller government do any worse ?

hit and run

Captain:
hit, at least some of your bolded statements should be amended to just like Republicans except for McCain warned us

Why would bringing up McCain and the 2008 election be of any interest at this point?

Jane says obamasucks

Tha Latest Travels with Daddy is up -

I've asked Glasater to add a pix.

narciso

Yes let put it plainly, Captain, there was one person who pointed out 'what would happen
when the Greek columns' were pulled away, how he didn't have any understanding of victory, except his own effort. And the pressing need
to 'drill baby drill' everywhere to offset any other crisis.

sylvia

And I also think health care should have been a priority. Lately at the supermarket and at Wal Mart, and even on the street, I have seen lots of people in the neon vests, and at the register, asking for donations. Lots more than usual. And it is annoying me. It is often for healthcare to childresn hospitals, or for firefighters.

And I ask these people, don't children or the firefighters already get government subsidies for this? And why should I donate money to it? And they don't know the answer. Mostly I think it's a scam.

And I look forward to the day when I know for SURE children and firefighters have their health insurance taken care of, in an organzed way, and we don't have to support them with people begging for our nickels at the supermarket, which may or may not end up going to the people who need it.

Jane says obamasucks

Clarice,

SPECTACULAR - and just the right length. Plus I got to find out what a "yurt" is.

centralcal

Oh, whoopie doo - according to Major Garrett via twitter, Obama will take his speech writer Favreau with him on his 2-day Gulf trip and give a major speech from the WH on his return.

Ah yes, competence and leadership - Favreau is on it!

narciso

Sally Quinn, from the LUned piece, is specially precious, seeing as she doesn't
see marriage as permanent, projecting from
her personal experience, then they describe
her as a 'lioness' in the Vanity Fair when protecting her son, who has a disability, but was quite savage when a certain 'huntress' defends her whole family

Jack is Back!

sylvia,

Can you cite the regulations that the republicans (and which republicans) assigned to the trash heap of drill, baby, drill? I mean you, like that brainiac, Joy Behar, have made an accusation based on what fact? Or is this a self-fulfilling consideration based on the fact that BP gave so much more campaign money to McCain-Palin then they did Obama-Biden? Are these the same republicans that told the oil companies, "look we need oil to run the people's cars and trucks but we don't want you drilling where you think there is oil. Rather we want you to drill where we think there is oil - 1 mile down and away from the shorelines". Or are they the republicans who said, "look we plan on setting up huge funds via cap & trade that will be available to all energy companies that have great "green" TV commercials and parrot Al Gore". Is it these republicans?

sylvia

"Or ban drilling in the easy places and lather rinse repeat. "

An oil leak in a shallower place would probably have much of the same problems. So what's your point? The main issue is not how shallow or deep the drilling was, the main issue was that a relief well was not drilled, and adequate safety regs were not in place and or followed to prevent this.

Government is the only one who will put up safety regs, not industry. The only other way to make sure companies act responsibly are private lawsuits, and we know how Repubs love them as well. And from small experience, I see that lawsuits are an imperfect remedy.

Companies might not follow the regs, and the gov might not enforce them, but regs sure make your case a lot stronger in court if you at least have them on the books.

sylvia

"Can you cite the regulations that the republicans (and which republicans) assigned to the trash heap of drill, baby, drill? "

A relief well drilled simultaneously. Also some more procedures in place to solve this problem once it happened. Caps and funnels ready to go, etc. From what I see, they appear to be making it up as they go along.

narciso

Excellent work, Clarice, as I pointed out on the previous thread, you can't go wrong with
Kutscher, Myerson, and co, It is emblematic
that this would happen with BP, the company
that thought it could be 'Beyond Petroleum'
and participate in the Climate scam, I was
queasy about them, since Vanity Fair showcased
them as the 'environmental oil company' and
the subsequent refinery fire, made short shrift of that.

jimmyk

The core of the Republican criticisms of Obama and the oil spill have nothing to do with regulation, but about simple competence in responding to the accident. Among other things, we've seen that Obama has failed to waive the Jones Act in order to accept assistance from foreign countries, and focused his efforts on attacking BP rather than offering assistance to get the job done.

As for regulation, the jury is still out on whether in fact it made this spill more likely or less, and whether even existing regulations were competently enforced by this administration.

anduril

And everything was going so well for 8 years under BushCheneyandtheirNeoconPals...

Report slams Pakistan for aiding Afghan militants
Islamabad 'appears to be playing a double-game of astonishing magnitude'

By Jonathon Burch

Reuters

updated 3:58 a.m. ET, Sun., June 13, 2010

KABUL - Pakistani military intelligence not only funds and trains Taliban fighters in Afghanistan but is officially represented on the movement's leadership council, giving in significant influence over operations, a report released on Sunday said.

The report, published by the London School of Economics, a leading British institution, on Sunday, said research strongly suggested support for the Taliban was the "official policy" of Pakistan's Inter-Services Intelligence agency (ISI).

Although links between the ISI and Islamist militants have been widely suspected for a long time, the report's findings, which it said were corroborated by two senior Western security officials, could raise more concerns in the West over Pakistan's commitment to help end the war in Afghanistan.

The report also said Pakistani President Asif Ali Zardari was reported to have visited senior Taliban prisoners in Pakistan earlier this year, where he is believed to have promised their release and help for militant operations, suggesting support for the Taliban "is approved at the highest level of Pakistan's civilian government."

A Pakistani diplomatic source described that report as "naive," and also said any talks with the Taliban were up to the Afghan government.

"Pakistan appears to be playing a double-game of astonishing magnitude," said the report, based on interviews with Taliban commanders and former senior Taliban ministers as well as Western and Afghan security officials.

'Duplicity'

...

Violent regions

The report said interviews with Taliban commanders in some of the most violent regions in Afghanistan "suggest that Pakistan continues to give extensive support to the insurgency in terms of funding, munitions and supplies."

"These accounts were corroborated by former Taliban ministers, a Western analyst and a senior U.N. official based in Kabul, who said the Taliban largely depend on funding from the ISI and groups in Gulf countries," the report said.

Almost all of the Taliban commanders interviewed in the report also believed the ISI was represented on the Quetta Shura, the Taliban's supreme leadership council based in Pakistan.

"Interviews strongly suggest that the ISI has representatives on the (Quetta) Shura, either as participants or observers, and the agency is thus involved at the highest level of the movement," the report said.

The report also stated that Pakistani President Zardari, along with a senior ISI official, allegedly visited some 50 senior Taliban prisoners at a secret location in Pakistan where he told them they had been arrested only because he was under pressure from the United States.

"(This) suggests that the policy is approved at the highest level of Pakistan's civilian government," the report said.

...

In an exclusive interview with Reuters at his home a day after he resigned, Saleh said the ISI was "part of the landscape of destruction in this country."

"It will be a waste of time to provide evidence of ISI involvement. They are a part of it. The Pakistani army of which ISI is a part, they know where the Taliban leaders are — in their safe houses," he told Reuters.

URL: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/37665955/ns/world_news-south_and_central_asia/

sylvia

"but about simple competence in responding to the accident"

There is nothing the guy can do but wait. Just like us. I don't think it's fair to blame Obama for this, just like I don't think it was fair to blame Bush for anything in Katrina. There is nothing to be done. The stuff that has to be done, people know about, and are doing. What else can you do.

Like I said, the problems in Katrina and BP started way before the accident, and the people who should be blamed are the people who didn't prepare, and the people who let them get way with not preparing. In Katrina's case, it's LA state government. In BP, it's government regulators, mostly Bush regulators. No use crying over spilt milk now.

Jane says obamasucks

Favreau is on it!

Isn't he about 12?

Captain Hate

Why would bringing up McCain and the 2008 election be of any interest at this point?

Because what good does a warning do after the Indonesian Imbecile is already in office? Saying "I told you so" is scant comfort.

Sometimes you're such a blindered fool.  Neocons, forsooth.

anduril, you poor sad bitter thing. How did things go with Pakistan for the last 30, nay, 60 years?
===========

Rob Crawford

If ever there was a test of President Obama’s vision of government — one that cannot solve all problems...

Sorry, but I reject that this is an honest assessment of Obama's "vision of government". We're talking about a man who, upon nomination, declared that the seas would begin receding, etc. We're talking about a government that's attempting to regulate the amount of salt we consume.

They really do think they can solve all problems. They just don't think the oil spill is nearly as important as getting control of more of the economy.

narciso

Well I'd like to know which officials are involved, the Taliban weren't 'chatty Kathy's'
to point out who they were, we know Colonel
Imam and the late Squad Commander Khavija (sic) were players, who else

hit and run

Captain:
Because what good does a warning do after the Indonesian Imbecile is already in office? Saying "I told you so" is scant comfort.

The warning was given before the Indonesian Imbecile was elected. That's the point.

I'm not looking for comfort,scant or plentiful,I'm looking for the destruction of the credibility of the Times and others to shape opinion when it comes to its nearly uninterupted pattern of mindlessly endorsing whatever Democrat happens to be running for whatever office.

Pointing out that the Times was spectacularly wrong about Obama may provide you with scant comfort,but it should provide some people (if there are any who read the Times who are persuadable) pause before ever listening to them again, especially in the next election.

Giving those people,"yeah McCain wasn't any better",is not terribly different from McCain saying,"Obama won't be that bad",IMHO,when it comes to convincing them that the next Republican won't be McCain.

narciso

McCain was still the better choice, lets face if, for all our complaints, just like George Sr. was a better choice over Dukakis, who seems to be the predecessor to this fellow,
When the Times gives you advise, consider it
in the same vein as one from Madoff or Stanford, 'fruit from the poisonous tree'

Ignatz

--His promise of bipartisanship seems naïve.--

Oh, brother. Given his own history of partisanship, his idealogical rigidity and his early comments to the GOP, loosely paraphrased as "get out of the way and shut up" his promise was clearly a cynical calculation and the only people naive were the imbeciles who believed it.

PaulL

President Favreau will blame all the vuvuzelas for King Ibama's failings.

LUN

peter

I loved this correction in this morning's Slimes:

(quote)
An obituary last Sunday and in late editions on Saturday, June 5, about the U.C.L.A. basketball coach John Wooden omitted the last entry in a seven-point creed that his father suggested that Mr. Wooden live by, and it also omitted the final three words of the fourth point in the creed. According to Mr. Wooden’s autobiography, “They Call Me Coach,” the creed was: “1. Be true to yourself. 2. Make each day your masterpiece. 3. Help others. 4. Drink deeply from good books, especially the Bible. 5. Make friendship a fine art. 6. Build a shelter against a rainy day. 7. Pray for guidance, count and give thanks for your blessings every day.”

(end quote)


Yeah, those three last words in item four that they couldn't bring themselves to utter. especially the Bible.


emblematic

JM Hanes

Captain Hate:

"Saying 'I told you so' is scant comfort."

Watching the uncomfortable light slowly dawn on media liberals is pretty gratifying though. The New York Times has almost been reduced to saying that anybody would have been better than Bush. They continue to suck at self-reflection, of course, as they admonish the public for regarding Obama as an all purpose savior.

And don't snivel.

You just make patent your unreliability when you slobber, Anduril.
=========================

Steve McIntyre's got a whole schtick about this.

peter, Say My Name.
============

Threadkiller

Sylvia,
Please gripe to the United States Department of Labor, Bureau of Labor Statistics:

In 2008, total paid employment in fire fighting occupations was about 365,600. Fire fighters held about 310,400 jobs, and first-line supervisors/managers of fire fighting and prevention workers held about 55,200.

15% management.


These employment figures include only paid career fire fighters—they do not cover volunteer fire fighters, who perform the same duties and may constitute the majority of fire fighters in a residential area. According to the U.S. Fire Administration, about 70 percent of fire companies were staffed entirely by volunteer fire fighters in 2007.

I thought you guys liked volunteers.


Although employment is expected to grow faster than the average for all jobs, candidates for these positions are expected to face keen competition because these positions are highly attractive and sought after.

Growing? I thought we were losing firefighters.


In 2008, 66 percent of all fire fighters were union members or covered by a union contract. Fire fighters receive benefits that usually include medical and liability insurance, vacation and sick leave, and some paid holidays. Almost all fire departments provide protective clothing (helmets, boots, and coats) and breathing apparatus, and many also provide dress uniforms. Fire fighters generally are covered by pension plans, often offering retirement at half pay after 25 years of service or if the individual is disabled in the line of duty.

This sounds like terible treatment of the firefighters.


You want your auto mechanic to do competent work on your car to prevent you from getting into an accident. But you would rather pay a firefighter more on the off chance you do wreck.

Median hourly wages of automotive service technicians and mechanics, including commission, were $16.88 in May 2008. The middle 50 percent earned between $12.44 and $22.64 per hour. The lowest 10 percent earned less than $9.56, and the highest 10 percent earned more than $28.71 per hour.

Oh, I forgot, Mechanics buy there tools. Firefighters are provided equipment.

This is not to slam firefighters. It is to slam dolts that don't research their complaints.

Quit being a puppet.

Captain Hate

Giving those people,"yeah McCain wasn't any better",is not terribly different from McCain saying,"Obama won't be that bad"

But that's not what I was saying; rather I was saying that McCain ran a horrible campaign at a time when he needed to run an almost flawless one. I gladly voted for McCain as the better person for the job even though I consider him an enemy of conservatives.

narciso

Daniel Silva, in a previous work, 'THe Messenger' posited that the next big AQ bigwig would be a former General Intelligence figure, just like Gul was a major player in the formation of the Taliban, and apparently Bearden didn't see it until the end. ZArdari is an imperfect figure, but it seems a bit much to suggest he is in on it, specially in light of what happened to his wife

Danube of Thought

Somebody please tell me what regulation they wish had been in place as of April 1, 2010 in order to have prevented this accident. Tell me who proposed the regulation, and when. Tell me who supported it, and who opposed it.

Clarice

Thanks guys.
Any more from Man Tran and the Mongolian Princess?

Captain Hate

Watching the uncomfortable light slowly dawn on media liberals is pretty gratifying though.

I agree with that, JMH, but we're digging ourselves a pretty deep hole in order for them to reach that level of insight. I also don't have any faith in their ability to reject the dogma they've chosen to wallow in the next time a smooth talking grifter says the right things. After all, following 100 million deaths they still think communism was never implemented properly.

Janet

Thanks for posting that correction Peter. I would have never seen it otherwise.
Reliance on God is to be ignored or discouraged. The chosen elites might be put out of business if the rubes start relying on God.

hit and run

Threadkiller:
You want your auto mechanic to do competent work on your car to prevent you from getting into an accident.

Actually,sylvia wants her mechanic not to sell her blinker fluid,IIRC,to keep her from having to take him to small claims court.

narciso

"Dimelo" tell me about it, Captain, the second and third generation exiles who voted
for Obama, in my neck of the woods.

Now the past is prologue, as we say, the same geniuses seem to be advising Daniels, in strategy, and honestly even if that's what you intend you don't say, 'truce' because it sounds like you're surrendering something

Threadkiller

In one of the debates McCain challenged Obama about the safety of nuclear power.
He told about all the nuclear powered Navy ships that safely run around the oceans of the world. Obama was rocked. This was the moment I thought McCain could have pulled off a victory.
His handlers must have known it because he never mentioned it again.

This was the worst campaign ever, except for Pepsi Clear.

Melinda Romanoff

Hit,

Is the the distinction between self-maintenance and somnolence?

Threadkiller

">http://s.ngeo.com/wpf/media-live/photos/000/211/cache/guatemala-city-sinkhole-2007_21118_600x450.jpg">

I hope Guatemala will regulate sinkholes so this never happens again!

hit and run

Captain:
But that's not what I was saying

I know...I wildly overstated it,not intentionally,but...oops.

I was saying that McCain ran a horrible campaign

He still had nothing to do with what I said. If he had run a flawless campaign,I wouldn't have included him in what I wrote either.

Melinda Romanoff

Tkiller-

I think, if they regulated sinkholes, limestone caverns and reinforced concrete, they might just coer it.

You ain't seen nuthin' yet.

Heh, Threadkiller, the icon for the Obama Administration there in that sinkhole. Perhaps H&R will leave his power tools long enough to superimpose the Obama logo over some of that hole?
=====================

Jane says obamasucks

On Meet the Press they are intimating that the big speech on Tuesday (before the BP Meeting) is to push climate change legislation.

Never let a crisis go to waste.

Carly Fiorini is on the panel of MYP (odd) and she is cleaning debbie Wasserman Schultz clock.

Melinda Romanoff

kim-

Imposed as a sagging tarp, it might be a better visual metaphor.

Rick Ballard

I would like to second DoT's request for a formulation of a proposed regulation that might have prevented this incident. Here is a first hand account by someone on the rig at the time of the blowout.

James: We had set the bottom cement plug for the inner casing string, which was the production liner for the well, and had set what's called a seal assembly on the top of the well. At that point, the BOP stack that he was talking about, the blow out preventer was tested. I don't know the results of that test; however, it must have passed because at that point they elected to displace the risers -- the marine riser from the vessel to the sea floor. They displaced the mud out of the riser preparing to unlatch from the well two days later and they displaced it with sea water. When they concluded the BOP stack test and the inner liner, they concluded everything was good.

Mark: Let me slow you down, let me slow you down. So they do all these tests to make sure the infrastructure can handle what's about to happen, right?

James: Correct, we're testing the negative pressure and positive pressure of the well, the casing and the actual marine riser.

Mark: OK, I'm with you. Go ahead.

James: Alright, after the conclusion of the test, they simply opened the BOP stack back up.

Mark: And the test, as best as you know, was sufficient?

James: It should have been, yes sir. They would have never opened it back up.

Further on:

James: OK. Yes. As a matter of fact, we were commended for our inspection record from the MMS. We are actually receiving an award from them for the highest level of safety and environmental awareness.

Mark: Well, I thought you were going to receive that award. Didn't they put it on hold?

James: No, we have actually received that award. We received it last year. We may have been ready to receive it again this year.

Eleven men died in this incident and every one of them knew that they were engaged in a high risk occupation. They had all received extensive instruction regarding safety issues and the orderly evacuation by the survivors indicates that safety drills had been effective in developing a proper response to an emergency.

It's a shame that BOzo and the Democrat Clown Show are too stupid to be capable of receiving such instruction but suggesting that fools who can't even issue a Jones Act waiver or find absorbent booms which are laying around in plain sight are capable of generating a regulatory response to a one in a million occurrence is shear idiocy.

Pofarmer

His promise of bipartisanship seems naïve.

I believe the proper term is "disingenuous"

Pofarmer

His promise of bipartisanship seems naïve.

I believe the proper term is "disingenuous"

Clarice

Picky, picky, Rick.
These guys are made for analyzing what others do wrong, not actually, like you know, doing anything themselves.

BobS

I love that name: Threadkiller. And, boy, is that ever quotable, Rick.

BobS

Things that CAN be blamed on Obama:

1. Not dispatching the Jones Act
2. Not disengaging EPA regs to let Jindal put up his berms.
3. Unleashing Eric Holder and putting BP on "lawyered up" footing
4. Not really putting Thad Allen in charge. If the Coast Gaurd were actually in charge, I'll bet he would have known about all those booms in Maine.
5. "Who's ass to kick": Any prsident can kick someone's ass. What would that accomplish? His school yard taunt was disturbingly immature and assumes that BP wanted this to happen. He ought to be asking what he could do to help instead of sending a prosecutor down and trash talking. What a horrible display in the ability to lead.
6. Once it became clear that this was an unprecendented disaster, it should have come under the perview of the Coast Gaurd. Allen's proved to be the only one who's appeared capable of such an endeavor. Salazar, Jackson and Obama have only demonstrated they can play a hysterical blame game.

narciso

Agreed on all points, BobS, they needed a General Honore type figure, but they didn't give Allen the authority, then again they wanted to slash that part of the budget

BobS

Pivoting to Obama, I'd like to offer this:

Look, we knew what this guy was all about. Heaven knows we all burned up alot of posts talking about it. Tragically we've found out that he is worse than we feared. But that's not why his presidency is such a dangerous failure. He sold himself to voters as being something completely different than the manner in which he governs. Satist takeovers of auto industries, student loans, health care, banking were not part of his platform. Neither were America changing sides on foreign policy (Israel, England, Honduras). The result of his policies are both observable and palpable. It is here where the public are imbittered. Only under such circumstances could we witness a Tea Party movement or such monumental electoral results in Virginia, New Jersey and Massachusettes. A large number of Americans realize that they've been intentionally mislead by the President and his party.

Clarice

General Honore! I swoon at the recall.

DebinNC

A large number of Americans realize that they've been intentionally mislead by the President and his party.

Or as Ashton Kutcher made a fortune telling clueless D-level celebs, "You've been punk'd!" Good news is, a lot fewer punkees are amenable to repunking by the same punkers.

matt

Daddy's post was great. Thank you Jane. We were up there a week ago and Denali is spectacular.Saw our intrepid aviator as well, and were served by a waitress who carried herself with the grace and poise of an accomplished athlete.

Friedman's column today was a further descent into utter mushheaded brain freeze. His new meme is that we must blame ourselves for Obama's incompetence in stopping the BP spill because of our dependence on hydrocarbons.

I wonder if he drove his Escalade to the office to write it or if he simply sat in his little bubble at home.

narciso

Sometimes I feel Will Rogers was describing the wrong party, in the LUN

DebinNC

Friedman's carbon-sparing home

Old Lurker

Sylvia and Anduril here on the same thread.

Wake me up for the party when Bunky gets in.

Pofarmer

Sylvia and Anduril here on the same thread.

Wake me up for the party when Bunky gets in.

Trifecta of "You can't fix stupid"

Pofarmer

Sylvia and Anduril here on the same thread.

Wake me up for the party when Bunky gets in.

Trifecta of "You can't fix stupid"

DebinNC

Boehner is savvy at this point to deny the Dems sole ownership of "Make BP pay". It will take months for Obama's self-serving moratorium's needless costs to become clear.

Ranger

These are matters of competence and leadership. This is a time for Mr. Obama to decisively show both.

Yeah, I think that train left the station about 7 weeks ago.

As a leader he should have taken charge and organized the respose. There are basically three seperate responses going on, the deep water efforts to cap the leak, the open sea efforts to contain the spill, and the coastal efforts to protect the shore line.

Instead of establishing clear lines of authority and ensuring communicaitons channels were open laterally and vertically, Obama just issued an order to put Adm. Allen in charge of the response and turned his back on the entire mess.

Is it a complicated problem? Of course it is. You have BP, the Coast Guard, and four seperate state governments to co-ordinate responses with. But that's why you want an experienced exacutive as the president, so he can meet that kind of challenge.

As to the charge of hypocracy from conservatives. This simply shows how little the left understands actual conservative thinking. This is a situation that government is exactly supposed to be responsable for managing the response. Just like national defense.

First, conservatives have nothing against reasonable regulation, such as the FAA's supervision of airline maintenance for public safety. What conservatives oppose is excessive regulation, such as mandating the size and content of airline meals (which the FAA actual did before airline deregulation).

The problem in this case appears to be one of ineffective enforcement of existing regulations bordering on corruption (and as conservatives understand, one of the ever present problems with any regime of regulation is that it is an invitationt to corruption).

It would be highly redundant and economically wasteful for each company drilling off shore to have all the equipment on hand to handle a leak like this. Instead, the government have the resources and the plan on hand to impliment those resources to handle a spill like this. Those resources can be paid for by the companies doing the drilling each chipping in their share to cover the cost, but the government should be the one managing the response resources.

narciso

You can't even work around this level, Po. look my feelings about BP's handling of the thing are clear, but going along with the demagoguery is not going to help things along.

DebinNC

Marciso, did you take my post after Po's to be his? I don't want Po to get blamed for my post. I think Republicans have to be wise politically, if we ever want to regain the power to do what is right.

DebinNC

Mnarciso..sorry about that.

narciso

No. I understand them to be both distinct trains of thought, Deb, the problem is you don't give them an inch, because you know they will take a mile, some folks like those
in the LUN, haven't quite figured out

BobS

Deb...."Punk'd" I have to tell you that my first instinct was to steal that one.

Captain Hate

He still had nothing to do with what I said.

Well, he did make the statement (paraphrasing) that nobody had anything to worry about an Obama presidency. I don't think it required 20/20 hindsight to be dumbfounded by that statement at the time.

That's the last I'm commenting on this topic, at least on this thread.

Pofarmer

There are basically three seperate responses going on, ,

In my perfect world.

The oil industry works to cap the leak.
The Feds provide them with equipment or expertise if they request it. There is no way the Federal Govt is going to be able to keep up with drilling technology, processes, etc, to prepare for the eventuality of something like this. This has to be an oil industry response, and, possibly there should even be an oil industry response team developed to deal with the eventuality that something like this happens again. Problem number one is that occurrences like this are rare.

the open sea efforts to contain the spill

Once again, the Feds are not going to know or have every oil containment solution or process or technology available. In the case of a large spill, like this one, it seems incumbent on the Feds to quickly allow the use of whatever technology is available and monitor it's use. If one process is shown to be ineffective, dangerous, problematic, or interfering with other processes, then adjust, or disallow it. Until that point is reached, shotgun it with every resource available. Take risks.

and the coastal efforts to protect the shore line.

Empower the States. The Local and State authorities affected know their situations best. Empower THEM to handle their own cleanup, as much as practicable, and provide assistance if it is requested, or if there is a demonstrated shortfall. Get the bureaucracy out of the way and TAKE RISKS.

The problem right now is that the Federal Govt thinks that they can do it all, and, in fact, it has been shown that they can't do anything. I want to see the Feds with oversight, not operational ability. You can never maintain operational ability of all the scenarios that might develop.

bio mom

What so many are hesitant to say is that...Obama is a liar.

BobS

Ranger: I don't believe that Thad Allen really is in charge. While he clearly is the one best equipped to be, at times during his pressers you can tell that all information isn't getting to him. The fact that he's been flown back and forth between DC and the Gulf Coast for media reasons is an indication that he's being used as a prop by Obama. There's no way for him to coordinate with Bobby Jindal who's been coming at everyone with plans of action that have been met with inaction by Obama's admin. If he'd been in charge, he's have known about all those booms in Maine.

Gmax

Thank you Congressman Wilson for the clarifying point.

On the site infestation, to paraphrase a old saw, beauty is but skin deep but this stupidity runs to the bone.

Ranger

You can never maintain operational ability of all the scenarios that might develop.

Posted by: Pofarmer | June 13, 2010 at 01:21 PM

True, but the Feds should have had the fire booms on hand and a plan to deploy them quickly. The Feds should also be the ones co-ordinating resources. One of the key responsibilities of a leader is to decide who gets the limited resources available to maximize the probability of achiving the goal. Someone also has to be co-ordinating the open seas effort to make sure time and effort aren't wasted.

Ultimately, someone has to take charge in a situaiton like this or you end up with what we have right now, which is total failure on all three efforts.

DebinNC

Bobby Jindal is fighting the good fight in the arena. It may not work, but, as he says, "We're not waiting for others."

narciso

This is the sticky gruel being offered in my neck of the woods, most of the major issues
are left out, in the LUN

narciso

THat's good, it's ironic now how the opinions of officials most affected like Jindal have been heavily ignored, whereas Blanco, rhetorical question I know, also the NRDC is part of the reason we are in this mess

RichatUF

Ranger-

When a crisis needs leadership, Obama looks for the nearest teleprompter. Just what we need-another speech.

It seems his last effort didn't go over well so he'll need: to pitch some people under the bus (the lady running MMS wasn't important enough); he'll need to demagogue BP's efforts to date (no more "nickle-and-diming")and shift blame to the previous administration's "cozy" relationship with big oil™; the kicker will be the bb deployed and tested "some say that government is too big and that it should do less, but when a crisis such as the GOM oil spill happens, those people look to a big government response" (the hypocrisy card?). He'll then pivot to make a hard pitch for cap-and-trade (as if the Spanish experience (or BP's own experience) in wind and solar could have made a difference.

Maybe he can let us know what we should turn our thermostats to and give us some fashion advice on the lastest cardigans.

centralcal

bio mom: Obama is a liar. No kidding!!

I don't have any problem saying or thinking it (lol), nor do any of us on this thread - only the media and political "elites" need to skirt around the word.

Elites - there is another word that doesn't mean what it used to, and certainly should no longer be applied to those who think they are!

narciso

Or Pemex's experience with Ixtoc, mad no difference

Neo

he should have moved a lot faster to begin political and criminal investigations of the spill.

I'm sure that all those involved have already fled to Brazil.

Talk about putting the cart before the horse.

RichatUF

Humm does this not work ™

maybe this™

centralcal

Bravo - good performance by Carly Fiorina with Chris Wallace this morning.

Jane was right!

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Wilson/Plame