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July 24, 2010

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Extraneus

The Google search term Appalled used was:

"hosie miller" baker county

The link brings up a snippet referring to Worth County.

And this Free Republic link says that ancestry.com records indicate that he lived in Mitchell County and died in Dougherty County.

Huh?

Jim Rhoads a/k/a vjnjagvet

I didn't see that comment as it wasn't on this thread. I think Ex's explanation sufficiently covers that ground. I should have written "challenging" not "questioning" to be more accurate. Expressing doubt under the circumstances is not like alleging counter facts challenging her story, or contrary eye witnesses.

I agree that the story you refer to is one that should not be challenged unless there is incontrovertible evidence to the contrary.

Danube of Thought

Appalled, I don't read anything that anyone has posted here, particularly including the Extraneus post to which you linked, as challenging her story. And I don't see your link as refuting any such hypothetical challenge, except to the extent of confirming that the man died in Georgia in 1965.

I can't find any reference anywhere to any grand jury proceedings. We don't know who presented the case to the grand jury. We really don't know anything except what Ms. Sherrod has said. That is somewhat different from saying that we challenge her account. It's simply to say that at this point it is largely uncorroborated. I would expect all of this to be clarified within a week or so.

Danube of Thought

don't see your *earlier* link

Danube of Thought

Check Drudge re the Lockerbie bomber. The administration has been lying.

daddy

Thanks Clarice for all the great AT stories.

Say "Hey" to the Wolverine from all of us:)

Love you're latest on the Lockerbie Bomber Release, (but I'm partial to the one.)

Clarice

I said that twice, as RichUF noted once in Sept 2009,DoT.

Here's an excellent point--you'd have expected a hot property like Sherrod would be on the Sunday shows, but now she's an embarrassment so the media gave her the hook.

http://biggovernment.com/amarlow/2010/07/25/shirley-silenced-sherrod-kept-out-of-sunday-talk-shows/>Bye, bye Shirley

centralcal

I am happily hopping from thread to thread ...

Clarice has been instalaunched! I am also predicting a Rush monologue based on her AT story tomorrow too. Or something!

Clarice

Thanks, daddy. The Wolverine is on her way. Her dad sent a pic from the plane--they were upgraded and got a BED..She's probably just jumping on it all the way here.

Clarice

Something--If it happens I'll be too busy/tired to know.

narciso the harpoon

And good news, and I don't say that in a Hubert Farnsworth sense, this time, in the LUN

daddy

Clarice,


I'm off in the other direction to Hong Kong in a few minutes so I'll give you a CNN International Update on all these non-stories in about 24 hours, so that you right winger's can know what's really going on in America according to Anderson Cooper and Wolf and Sanchez and all the rest of those weasels. Have fun with your little Ju-Jitsuer!


Manny, great update!

centralcal

How exciting, Clarice. Wolverine visiting just in time to celebrate her wonderful Grand Mere AND her increasingly noted voice in the sane blogosphere.

Extraneus

LUN doesn't work, n.

Sue

Something I read somewhere keeps tickling my brain. Mrs. Sherrod said Obama didn't know enough about the civil rights movement and didn't know about the rural south. Does the NAACP not know enough either? They jumped before Obama did. And to make it even more weird, her mother was a leader of a civil rights group and her husband a well known activist. Yet the NAACP tossed her aside like yesterday's garbage. This whole story is weird.

Jane

Well I have now seen all 4 sunday talk shows and can say I am severly disheartened. None of them got the story right. Other than Fox, they all blame Fox, and they all say Breitbart sliced and diced the clip and none of them talk about the NAACP attendees reaction.

I suffered thru so much pontification by wealthy and powerful black commentators which consisted of - "give us stuff you crackers' that I am completely disgusted. It is simply not possible to refute all the lies - and in true journo-list fashion, I assume that was the point.

Extraneus

That excerpt from Appalled's link doesn't even use Mr. or Mrs. Miller's names. You can't even tell if it was the part of the page to which the Google link related.

Btw, I don't see any reason to be squeamish about questioning her stories. Quite the contrary. We've been accused of being racists, just on the threads today. Ms. Sherrod has already accused Breitbart and Fox of being racists pining for the days of slavery, and would surely accuse the posters here of the same. Yet, the only racists I can see in any of these stories are leftists.

narciso the harpoon

To sum up, EX, it's a report in the Examiner,
the real Washington paper, saying Mary Kendall
Interior Dept IG will investigate the fraud of
misrepresenting the views of the experts in
the drilling moratorium.


No, Jane, one cannot conclude anything then they are getting the story wrong deliberately,
as they say 'you can't let (a meme) go to waste

Clarice

Jane, who watches that carp anyway? Onward and upward to this week's sting.

Extraneus

You are a master at summation, narciso. I don't even need the link now.

You know, I'd pay for a website that I could trust to do that. Don't know how I'd use the time I'd save, but I'd pay.

Sue

Wow. Wikileaks did a document dump. See Drudge.

Jane

Jane, who watches that carp anyway? Onward and upward to this week's sting.

Clarice,

I am the plebe around here. Someone has to do it

glasater

Sue-

Here is the link to Wikileaks Twitter.

That really shows what their priorities are...I think.

narciso the harpoon

Much of what is related, is what Matt in particular has described the Af Pak milieu to be, as well the LSE/Kennedy school report on the subject

 Ann  Squaredance

Here is the new talking point from, Journolist Politico:

“The period of time covered in these documents (January 2004-December 2009) is before the President announced his new strategy. Some of the disconcerting things reported are exactly why the President ordered a three month policy review and a change in strategy.”

The administration highly condemns blah blah blah blah


Clarice

I emailed Soylent the link to the wikileaks just in case he has time to read an use the stuff.

MayBee

clarice- ****EXCELLENT**** clarice's pieces. Fantabuloso!

ManTran- I can't believe your travels right now. Incredible!

Pagar

"Anyone surprised the WH backed the Lockeree bomber"
Anyone surprised the WH is still working in support of the Communist who was thrown out in Honduras?
"Varios' (various) at the end of the agenda refers to the intention to force the justices to look for a way that Mel Zelaya can return to Honduras with complete impunity, without submitting to justice for his financial crimes of corruption."

Anyone who reads a page or two of the http://babalublog.com/
blog can not help but realize the collusion between Castro's Cuba, the Obama Admin, the Catholic Church and Spain to make it look like Cuba political prisoners are being freed when in fact, there are thousands still in prison and the ones being forcefully sent to Spain are still not free in their homeland where they belong. Just another bow to Communism by Obama.

narciso the harpoon

"Dimelo" tell me about it Pagar, then again Spain under ZApatero is a colony of Cuba, an interesting reversal of dynamic

Pagar

"or that the murderer was unfairly cleared by a racist white grand jury."
Haven't there been several cases where more evidence resulted in new investigations, maybe ran by different people, that resulted in convictions?
There must have been some public info available. Even if the Grand Jury refused to bring charges, the man is still dead. Was the murder decision changed to accidential death? Why does no one want this investigated?

matt

Thanks for the tip Jane. Just another person seeing what they want to see, rather than what is. I've been reading the Republic on line for that reason.

Not to be accused as racist or anything, but it would seem that Ms. Sherrod was blacklisted from the Sunday news shows. How very odd that she would be so effectively muzzled when her defenders are so vociferous.

Stephanie

And how very odd that ALL the news shows just HAPPENED to ALL decide that the story didn't need one of the supposed principal actors to discuss the story. Hmmm. ESP or Cabalist?

Scoops? That's what Moochelle puts on her cone for dessert. Cabalists don't know nothing 'bout birthin' no exclusives!

MarkO

Obama's a liar?

Danube of Thought

It seems clear that many of the assertions surrounding Sherrod's story are readily capable of being either verified or falsified. Given the national and international attention that is now focused on that story, I expect that the verifications or falsifications will be forthcoming very soon.

There are certainly official records that can address some of the issues. And a number of the events described by Ms. Sherrod must necessarily have been witnessed by people who can now be sought out, or asked to come forward.

We should know a lot more very soon. And everybody who has anything to say about the facts should be subject to cross-examination, whether under oath or not.

MarkO

Generally, when a witness becomes unavailable, as in not appearing on camera, I begin to question the veracity of that witness.

Once, when there was not nearly so much of it to learn, I was a history major. Then, I learned that what passed for certainty in historiography would not be admissible in court. I suspect that we will see some of that difference here.

So far, the story seems to lack a basic connection to the events of the time period, such as unreported killings by white men in the South in 1964, that also went unpunished and unrequited, even in Federal proceedings. Such an event was too big to miss in those bad days.

narciso the harpoon

The Notes in the LUN, maybe a clue to the resolution of the matter

narciso the harpoon

What this proves in ten minutes, is that the Times are abysmal researchers, reporter, et al

http://books.google.com/books?id=H64kfdh3c4wC&pg=PA202&dq=Baker+County%3B+Sherrod&hl=en&ei=jwFNTPu0LcL98Aaahawy&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=10&ved=0CFQQ6AEwCQ#v=onepage&q=Baker%20County%3B%20Sherrod&f=false

cathyf

Seems to me that if the VRWC is good for anything, we ought to be able to demand that prosecutors reopen the Hosie Miller case. There is no statute of limitations on murder, and if the perp(s) is(are) still alive they can be brought to justice.

MarkO

It doesn't look to me like a book that would answer the questions raised, either in the text or, by chance, the notes. I don't have time or inclination to read all of it, however.

narciso the harpoon

The latter makes the argument that it was race rather than economics, from her account
in 2006, contrary to what she said to the NAACP

Stephanie

From Narciso's last link:

((She grew up in an area called Hawkins Town, a black-owned community made up of entirely her extended family and a few of their agricultural laborers.... Shirley Sherrod was clearly conscious of the Williamses' status as laborers, but she maintained that the relationship between the two families "wasn't strictly" that of land owner and laborer. For the Sherrods and Williamses, the ties of race were stronger than socioeconomic barriers, at least in Shirley's memory.))

So Miss Shirley comes from a land owning family who had enough wealth to hire laborers and to have AT THE LEAST appearances of distinctions of class between themselves and their laborers. Cain'tja just imagine the affrontery of this poor white farmer abeggin at Miss Shirley's trough of Pig settlement proceeds not knowing he was adealin with tha aristocracy what lives in that area?

And she claimed when that book was researched and published (2006) that race was more important than status but now says she had an epiphany? I call BS. This book was 2006 not 20 some years ago... Can you say Fabulist! She keeps good company, though. Must be a prerequisite for admittance to the civil rights movers and shakers brigades.

And why was this not dirt poor substantial land owning farmer involved in the lawsuit against the USDA??? And why is the media treating us to the poor black farmer just scraping out a subsistence narrative that is clearly false...

My family had land in the middle south Georgia area (Douglas) from the late 1800s through the early 1990s and it would take hundreds of acres of land to allow for more than 2 or 3 families to subsist at any level, much less allowing one extended family and their laborers to make a living doing so. Something is fishy in her narrative and it ain't the slop they feed the hogs.

BTW... many of the poor white farmers in that area ended up losing their farms to the larger enterprises in the area including the Carter family and still are. Bankrupt, buy out and consolidate. Tis the Georgia Agriculture Commission's way (Thanks, Tommy!). Where do you think all that peanut butter comes from??? It isn't your small family farmer.

Might be interesting to explore the Koinonia Farm in that area, too. It is a "social justice" commune that claims it's the root of Jimmah's Habitat for Humanity. It has been steadily "acquiring" additional land for years. And it is affiliated with some pretty influential folks in the Jimmah brigades and the civil rights arena.

Stephanie

This may be the source of the confusion on where her dad died:

Two counties were created entirely from Baker County: Dougherty (1853) and Mitchell (1857). Additionally, portions of Baker County were used to help create two other counties: Calhoun (1854) and Miller (1856).

Source: Baker County My Georgia Geneology

Just how old was her dad???

Stephanie

And I found this in the paper from January 2010...

((Congressman Sanford Bishop, D-District 2, Georgia, and Shirley M. Sherrod, state director of the U.S. Department of Agriculture (USDA) Rural Development also gave remarks at the event, before the two presented a check to Monts for $294,000 to purchase land and develop lots for 21 affordable houses. The money will be used for the first phase of the project, and will provide the ministry the necessary funds in order to start the building of the initial infrastructure and houses.))

With this little tidbit at the bottom:

The ministry is a Community Housing Development Organization, as well as being a 501-C-3 tax exempt organization. The group is managed by a team consisting of the nine board of directors and officers, seven of whom do not attend Zion Hope Baptist Church.

Be interesting to investigate the Zion Hope Outreach Ministry, too.

LUN


narciso the harpoon

From everything I've read, I concur with JM's reading of the place, it was not a nice place
for an African American in 1965 and even later, it really does seem like Mississippi a few hundred miles over. However the story seems a might bit more complex than was first
presented, hence no links to comtemporaneous
events ,even in the Times archive

Stephanie

Zion Ministries has chapters all across the US... anyone recognize any of the names on the list ?

BTW I note that the chapter in Americus is listed as having assets, income and revenue of ZERO for 2006.

Anyone have any way to research the geneological sites on the web (ancestors(dot)com or mygeneology(dot)com or the ability to investigate 501c3s via the web? I can't find any legal/census info on any of this stuff without forking over $$ for access.

Stephanie

Narciso, it was not a nice place in that era. It is still a hardscrabble existence for many today, and the racial issues are improved - just don't look too far below the surface on either side. The race-baiting game is alive and well in south Georgia and the local politicians still prowl the battlefield.

That in no way excuses the storyteller for possibly embellishing/fabricating the tale. Her "story" is all too believable to a NE liberal's fertile mind of life in the south.

I am unconvinced as to whether she comes out on the side of the oppressor or oppressed in reality, though. She trumpets the oppressed, but so do Jesse and Al... and it is an all too common tale in the rural south (hell allover if truth were known) of "community organizers" using the oppressed to extract a pound of flesh from government or industry and the "community organizer" to be one of the ones to gain the most...

I put them in the same category as "class action lawyers." Who gets the proceeds for the perceived wrongs and who winds up with $.015 on the dollar in the settlement?

I have a proposed settlement statement on behalf of Expedia on my desk now that would pay me a whopping $1.50 for my troubles to fill out the paperwork now due to some class action suit that was filed for something or other and I have used them several times for about $13K in travel- have no idea why the suit was started - why I have been wronged but DAMMIT I am an unknowing victim! EleventiEs!!11! get me my pound of flesh/sarc. WHAT A DEAL!

BTW this is how the Pig settlement blossomed from the originally estimated 3K to the number of claimants begging at the trough today.

So is Shirley in the attorney category - manufactured the outrage (big bucks), the filers category - in on the scam, but not the mastermind (finders fee bucks) or the poor rube who made up the muddle that was used to create a fuss (scraps off the table bucks)? I suspicion the first, or more probably, the second. So how does that fit her narrative as sold to the NE liberal elite?

Stephanie

Forgot the link to Zion Ministries...

LUN

narciso the harpoon

Well Bishop who seems to be the congressman from that neck of the woods seems fairly moderate, as opposed to Hank Johnson up wonder

Stephanie

Nathan tows the party vote for Nan,though. And he's big buds with Jimmah!

BTW Hank won his primary - the other dem candidate was even slimier. He is touting that he is "endorsed by Barack Obama." Ooof.

From his reeelect website:

Prior to his election to Congress, Rep. Johnson served twelve (12) years as a DeKalb County magistrate judge, five (5) years as a county commissioner and three (3) years as chair of the DeKalb County Budget Committee.

Rep. Johnson practiced civil and criminal law in DeKalb County for twenty-seven (27) years. A staunch supporter of public education, he is a graduate of the District of Columbia Public Schools, Clark College in Atlanta and the Thurgood Marshall School of Law at Texas Southern University.

Not a stellar example of the education provided at those distinguished schools, eh?

We know why he isn't running for a state wide seat, though - he might've tipped the balance showing up to campaign in St. Simons or Jekyll or Tybee Island! Horrors!

Topsecretk9

It's interesting the Journolist crew just sort of doesn't care about the egregious classified document dump -- Valerie Plame ought to feel very lucky her ditty was at a time the media cared.

bunkerbuster

Prediction: Breitbart isn't going to be trying to shaft black people with dishonest videotapes for quite awhile, if for no other reason that even the GOP hacks at Fox won't take his word for anything...He'll lay low for awhile, try a few attacks on other favorite targets who aren't black, then resume his assault on black people.

Army posits: ``A challenge to journalists who fancy themselves "social conscious"....''
Hey, why not sic Breitbart on that one? Oh right, he doesn't actually do any reporting or investigation...lol...

Pagar

My Breitbart prediction is that he is being sent more stuff everyday and his biggest problem will be havung enough bandwidth to publish all the leftist corruption.
Here's some Corruption nowpublished by Politico.

"The lawless stonewalling by Justice is a major scandal, but the evidence that has surfaced about the opposition of the Obama administration to race-neutral enforcement of civil rights laws, as well as a refusal to enforce federal requirements ensuring the accuracy and validity of voter registration lists three months before an election, fill Americans with great concern and suspicion.

Jane

Some of the disconcerting things reported are exactly why the President ordered a three month policy review and a change in strategy.”

Yeah, he wasn't the commander in chief during that time.

Rob Crawford

shaft black people with dishonest videotapes

You're a dishonest little twat, you know that, Bubu?

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