I Remain Stuck At Ground Zero

The Ground Zero Mosque has become ground zero for stupidity and misrepresentation.

Let's start with Alan Jacobs, who gets off to a reasonable start:

Of course Mayor Bloomberg is right — of course. It’s sad that there should even be debate about the core legal principles involved. Whether the building of a mosque so near Ground Zero is a good idea — whether it promotes the health of the city, as some of the proponents of the scheme say they want to do — is a completely different question, a matter of social prudence. About this reasonable people will disagree.

Dorothy Rabinowitz of the WSJ chimes in on behalf of reasonable people.  Back to Mr.Jacobs:

But legally the situation is simple, as the mayor points out: “with or without landmark designation, there is nothing in the law that would prevent the owners from opening a mosque within the existing building. The simple fact is this building is private property, and the owners have a right to use the building as a house of worship. The government has no right whatsoever to deny that right – and if it were tried, the courts would almost certainly strike it down as a violation of the U.S. Constitution.” He could delete the “almost” in that last sentence.

Mayor Bloomberg could have said this mosque is a terrible idea, it insults many members of the community, it is dividing people rather than bringing people together, but he is not going to twist the law to stop it.  Instead, he chose to celebrate it.  

Let's press on with the misrepresentation by Mr .Jacobs:

But the really sad thing is that people who call themselves conservatives — Newt Gingrich, Sarah Palin — should be crying out for apparatuses of the state to limit and police voluntary religious association.

Sarah Palin called on "peace seeking" Muslims and "peaceful" New Yorkers to 'refudiate'  it.  Was that a call for government intervention, or an exhortation for people to exert their right of peaceable assembly?  Mr. Jacobs seems to know, but I do not.

Mayor Bloomberg made two tiny nods towards the notion that having the right does not make something right:

But we also recognize that part of being a New Yorker is living with your neighbors in mutual respect and tolerance. It was exactly that spirit of openness and acceptance that was attacked on 9/11.

"Mutual respect" could be read to mean that the developers should take note of the fact that their community outreach has fallen a bit short.  And later:

"Of course, it is fair to ask the organizers of the mosque to show some special sensitivity to the situation – and in fact, their plan envisions reaching beyond their walls and building an interfaith community. By doing so, it is my hope that the mosque will help to bring our City even closer together and help repudiate the false and repugnant idea that the attacks of 9/11 were in any way consistent with Islam. Muslims are as much a part of our City and our country as the people of any faith and they are as welcome to worship in Lower Manhattan as any other group. In fact, they have been worshipping at the site for the better part of a year, as is their right.

Uh huh.  We have no idea who is funding this Victory Mosque, but even if it is BinLaden's family in concert with Wahhabi extremists from Saudi Arabia, Bloomberg has no problem; in fact, he has no questions at all.

The Mayor leaves us scratching our heads over this:

"On September 11, 2001, thousands of first responders heroically rushed to the scene and saved tens of thousands of lives. More than 400 of those first responders did not make it out alive. In rushing into those burning buildings, not one of them asked 'What God do you pray to?' 'What beliefs do you hold?'

"The attack was an act of war – and our first responders defended not only our City but also our country and our Constitution. We do not honor their lives by denying the very Constitutional rights they died protecting. We honor their lives by defending those rights – and the freedoms that the terrorists attacked.

OK, so I could honor the many policemen who died that day by staging daily protests about Amadou Diallo and Abner Louima.  I assume the Mayor would defend my right to do so, but wold he really describe it as honoring the memory of New York's Finest?

Or let's analogize to the recent "Everybody Draw Mohammed" day.  I see no reason why the Victory Mosque protestors couldn't exercise their free speech rights by appearing with placards depicting Mohammed throughout the Ground Zero area.  I understand that would be offensive to Muslims, but it is the sort of free speech and opportunity for tolerance that the Mayor seems to laud, yes?

Or no.  The Constitution provides the right to be a jerk, but that right need not be embraced.  And unlike the Mayor, I have no intention of applauding a group of Muslims, financial backers unknown, who are intent on seizing their right to be offensive.

THE PICTURE I SEE:  In my artistic vision I see the World Trade Center with Mohammed's face covering one tower as a jetliner crashes into the building.  Was the attack inspired by Mohammed, or was it an attack on Mohhamed and his ideals?  Ahh!  Provocative art, and I know the Mayor would welcome such a billboard in the Ground Zero neighborhood.  

SPEAKING OF PROJECTION:  Tom Friedman provides a pure view of one strain of nonsense infecting the debate:

When we tell the world, “Yes, we are a country that will even tolerate a mosque near the site of 9/11,” we send such a powerful message of inclusion and openness. It is shocking to other nations. But you never know who out there is hearing that message and saying: “What a remarkable country! I want to live in that melting pot, even if I have to build a boat from milk cartons to get there.”

Sure it will send a message of inclusion, especially if the world shares the values of the Upper West Side.  The ability to turn the other cheek is an admirable virtue but (believe it or not!) in some parts of the world it is interpreted as weakness, not strength.  People who will naturally prefer the strong horse may not gravitate towards a country that won't even defend its own cities. 

Somewhere in Afghanistan or Iraq is a village elder being asked by an American commander to put his trust in American strength and resolve.  This is not a village elder who will be moving to the Upper West Side anytime soon, but he might end up beheaded by the Taliban or AQI if he chooses unwisely.  Will the news that America allowed a mosque to be built on property destroyed in the 9/11 attacks persuade him that America will stand up to extremists?  Maybe!  Or maybe the old guy will fall down laughing and solve his problem that way.

Friedman describes the mosque as "Park51", which is its rebranded name.  It is still also known as the Cordoba Initiative; Cordoba was the seat of the Muslim empire in Spain, where Christians and Jews were tolerated as second class citizens.  But don't take offense.

Comments

[jeff]

I say rename the street in front of the building, Gates of Vienna. Lets see the tolleration then.

['Interfaith' has different meanings in Arabic and English.]

'Building an interfaith community'. D'ya mean with dhimmis and all?
========================

[Clarice]

All very rational,TM. But it's Bloomberg we're dealing with and so we need to shift gears. Did you know they plan to serve transfats laden with salt there? Yes, indeedy.

[jimmyk]

BinLaden's family in concert with Wahhabi extremists

For what it's worth, my understanding is that the Bin Laden family is for the most part not tied to Muslim extremism and not supportive of it (though there may be some crazed individuals aside from Osama who do). They mostly like money.

[Foo Bar]

Sarah Palin called on "peace seeking" Muslims and "peaceful" New Yorkers to 'refudiate' it. Was that a call for government intervention, or an exhortation for people to exert their right of peaceable assembly? Mr. Jacobs seems to know, but I do not.

Yes, Mr. Jacobs seems to know. That's probably because he did more thorough research than you did. Here is what Palin said on Facebook (emphasis added):

Many Americans, myself included, feel it would be an intolerable and tragic mistake to allow such a project sponsored by such an individual to go forward on such hallowed ground. This is nothing close to “religious intolerance,” it’s just common decency.

[Jane]

“What a remarkable country! I want to live in that melting pot, even if I have to build a boat from milk cartons to get there.”

Plus I don't have to be a citizen to get free health care, welfare, free education and if anyone doesn't like it I can sue and make a bundle.

Hail the victory Mosque!

[Old Lurker]

Thought I'd go as OT as possible since I'm on vacation...

Am I the only one noticing how weathermen are now using "Heat Index" in place of temps so to have maps covered with scary triple digit colors? My fav Shep Smith seems to be the worst.

Is this to hide the decline I wonder?

[Pofarmer]

OL, it's one of those "I've noticed that too" things. We haven't had an honest 100 degree day in 3 years, but they go on about heat indexes as if that were the actual temp. The forecasters for the Midwest have also been hyping this "heat dome" that just never materializes. Last week the "heat dome" gave us around 10 inches of rain.

[Janet]

Heat index in the summer & wind chill factor in the winter.
We are strong & tough to be able to withstand these extreme temperatures....that & our "powerful message of inclusion and openness" makes us a mighty force indeed.
At least it does in our own minds.

[narciso the harpoon]

Well TM, there's this, in the LUN, which all seems like out of an earlier Dan Silva novel,
the Messenger

[Captain Hate]

For what it's worth, my understanding is that the Bin Laden family is for the most part not tied to Muslim extremism and not supportive of it (though there may be some crazed individuals aside from Osama who do). They mostly like money.

"The Looming Tower" stressed that point. They are a *huge* family.

[Pofarmer]

"The Looming Tower" stressed that point. They are a *huge* family.

I think it's the ole "One rotten apple" thing.

[centralcal]

Hey - HotAir has a post speculating that an August surprise is coming from Obama. The forgiveness of mortgage principal on loans that are in negative equity positions. (Through Freddy and Fannie).

The theory is that all these happy and relieved folks will rush to the polls to support the dems. What about the even further enraged folks? Insanity.

[Pofarmer]

Hey - HotAir has a post speculating that an August surprise is coming from Obama. The forgiveness of mortgage principal on loans that are in negative equity positions. (Through Freddy and Fannie).

If that happens there should be riots, and the bums driven from office, for, we shall have become(more) lawless. A Govt that acts like this can't stand.

[narciso the harpoon]

Steve Coll's bio, is a little more equivocal on the point, Captain, specially a Mr. Khalifa. Rachel Ehrenfeld has caught all sorts of grief, for pointing out the 'charitable' patterns of many of these Yemeni industrial clans, the ones that emerged in the the "Golden Chain".

one recalls that the left were atwitter for years that Brother Salem had been in an investor in one of W's companies 20 years before

[anduril]

We've all heard liberals say of the Constitution that the writers didn't envision the problems we face today. Well, in this case it's true. I don't think they envisioned what we would need to do to defend America in an age of ideological warfare in which no one is really sure what America stands for any more. Our Constitution is fine when we're all on the same page, so to speak, but it doesn't work so well when we allow in immigrants who are flat out opposed to its underlying principles and vision and they start setting up their own support structures. This is especially true in this age of easy global travel and communication.

[Danube of Thought]

Unexpected:

WASHINGTON- New claims for unemployment benefits unexpectedly rose last week, government data showed on Thursday, underscoring a weak labor market and the fragile economic recovery.Initial claims for state unemployment benefits rose 19,000 to a seasonally adjusted 479,000 in the week ended July 31, the Labor Department said.

[anduril]

Picking up on the Babbin articles from yesterday, we have Steven Chapman (another of my not so favorite writers, but who's spot on today): The Unaffordability of Endless War:

It's a shame to let accountants spoil the charming romance of war, but sometimes they insist. Recently the Congressional Research Service reported that our military undertakings in Iraq and Afghanistan have marked an important milestone. Together, they have cost more than a trillion dollars.

That doesn't sound like much in the age of TARP, ObamaCare and LeBron James, but it is. Adjusted for inflation, we have spent more on Iraq and Afghanistan than on any war in our history except World War II. They have cost more in real dollars than the Korean and Vietnam wars combined.

But we can only wish we were getting off so lightly. Neither war is over, and neither is going to be soon. The House just approved $37 billion in extra funding to cover this year, and the administration wants another $159 billion for 2011. That won't be the final request.

Worse, the CRS figure is only part of the bill so far. It noted the sum doesn't include the "costs of veterans' benefits, interest on war-related debt or assistance to allies." All of those will go on after these wars are over, which someday they may be.

Scholars Joseph Stiglitz of Columbia and Linda Bilmes of Harvard published a book in 2008 called "The Three Trillion Dollar War," which gives a more realistic estimate. But that, too, is an understatement. They figure that when all long-run costs are factored in, the tab will be at least $5 trillion and could reach $7 trillion, or nearly twice as much as this year's entire federal budget.

And that was two years ago. I asked Bilmes for an update, and she said some obligations, like veterans' medical and disability compensation costs, "have exceeded our earlier projections." Do I hear $8 trillion?

The beauty of the current conflicts, however, is that we can pretend we don't have to pay for them. Unlike past wars, when taxes were raised to defray the cost, these have been financed with the help of borrowed funds. But eventually the astronomical bill will have to be paid.

A nation as wealthy as this one might be able to afford to go on taking out loans to squander on martial adventures if that were all we wanted our government to do. But if we expect it to pay us a decent Social Security pension, cover our medical expenses in our old age (and sometimes before), combat crime and terrorism, build and repair highways and bridges, maintain national parks, and all the rest -- well, invading and transforming distant nations might just become an unaffordable luxury.

Thanks again, Neocons.

[Melinda Romanoff]

DoT-

The headline is different than the Non-seasonally adjusted data, which is what I watch.

I'll break it down in a bit, catching up with the opening.

[Appalled]

Andruil:

Where are you getting that it is immigrants who "are flat out opposed to [our] underlying principles and vision"? That's more a problem with our elites and judges, don't you think?

[MarkO]

This is simply not about religion. It is political and it is militant.

It is such hard work to fashion an argument in favor of the victory mosque.

[Pofarmer]

Did anybody else catch this?

Rock County, MN
http://www.wnd.com/?pageId=187797

Yes, the same Elena Kagan nominated by the commander in chief to be the next justice on the U.S. Supreme Court has actually been playing a role for some time in the dispute over whether Obama is legally qualified to be in the White House.

Here's the connection. Kagan served as solicitor general of the United States from March 2009 until May of this year.

In that role, she legally represented the U.S. government in numerous cases coming before the Supreme Court.

A simple search of the high court's own website reveals Kagan's name coming up at least nine times on dockets involving Obama eligibility issues.

http://www.supremecourt.gov/search.aspx?Search=Obama++Kagan&type=Supreme-Court=Dockets

The fact Kagan handled these cases and is now Obama's first choice for the high court is raising some eyebrows.

"She was the solicitor general for all the suits against him filed with the Supreme Court to show proof of natural-born citizenship," notes WND reader Carl Jorgensen of Farmingdale, N.J. "He owes her big time."

"All of the requests were denied of course," Jorgensen continued. "They were never heard. It just keeps getting deeper and deeper, doesn't it? The American people mean nothing any longer. It's all about payback time for those that compromised themselves to elect someone that really has no true right to even be there. We should be getting so sick of all of this nonsense. The USA has finally become the laughing stock of the world. God help and deliver us."

[Old Lurker]

CC in normal times I would say the loan forgiveness would not work since Fannie & Freddie were really only conduits in selling those loans to investors.

But then Obama met the Chrysler Bond Holders and the world turned upside down.

[Old Lurker]

Hay Po...after doing the dishes from your anniversery dinner, have you gone outside to figure how to farm making no dust per the EPA's proposed new regulation?

[Pofarmer]

If I recall, housing starts were way off too.

[narciso the harpoon]

Yes, Chavez loving Siglitz is who I go for information like that, and Bilmes writing back November, the 'cost of not pursuing
health care reform' seriously, how about the integrity of the republic

[narciso the harpoon]

Look he was born here, that much is certain, sadly he imported every crazy ism, from standard American marxism, (Davis, Ayers)
black liberation (Ayers, Cone) and Arab
nationalism (Khalidi, Said)

[Pofarmer]

Hay Po...after doing the dishes from your anniversery dinner, have you gone outside to figure how to farm making no dust per the EPA's proposed new regulation?

Yeah, that's gonna be a ball. To top it off, this county has over 1000 miles of gravel roads. Right now there's a more immediate concern. Mark Twain lake is coming up with high e-coli levels. There's very little developement on the lake itself. I wonder how long it's going to be before they start coming back upstream and looking hard at livestock operations? I have cattle all up and down some of the headwater creeks for that lake.

[Melinda Romanoff]

OL-

I'm going to give you a Fannie and Freddie story that will have you throwing fresh, hot blueberry muffins at the 'Sconset market, where you're going to buy the WSJ.

I'll be back.

[Extraneus]

“What a remarkable country! I want to live in that melting pot, even if I have to build a boat from milk cartons to get there.”

Yet he prefers a more China-like system, where strong leaders could make decisions for us without having to worry about the unwashed masses.

One-party autocracy certainly has its drawbacks. But when it is led by a reasonably enlightened group of people, as China is today, it can also have great advantages.

That one party can just impose the politically difficult but critically important policies needed to move a society forward in the 21st century.

Tom Friedman - wannabe thug, born dhimmi.

[Thomas Collins]

"Why does an elite that is actually not admirable in what it does, and not effective or productive, that has added little or nothing of value to the civilizational stock, that cannot possibly do the things it claims it can do, that services rent-seekers and the well-connected, that believes in an incoherent mishmash of politically correct platitudes, that is parasitic, have such an elevated view of itself?"

I think the above quote perfectly describes Tommy "Earth Is Not Flat, But His Head Is" Friedman and his cohorts perfectly.

See LUN (via Instapundit) for the article which is the source of the above quote. The article sets forth the view that part of the struggle against Codevilla's Ruling Class is taking steps to undermine the confidence of the members of the Ruling Class.

[Captain Hate]

Why does anybody take Flathead Friedman seriously?

[Pofarmer]

BTW.

Russians halted wheat exports, and actually CALLED BACK a shipment of wheat that was already in transit. Things are gonna get interesting today. BTW, interesting in that you are either gonna wanna pray or wanna drink. Maybe just take a big hit off the communion wine?

[Clarice]

Po--litter train those critters. Soon the EPA will send you a booklet explaining how.

[Melinda Romanoff]

Po-

The Russkies don't have one of these:

[narciso the harpoon]

Ah look who crawled from under their respective rock,s it's attack of the VIPS

[Melinda Romanoff]

For OL-

Here's where Fannie and Freddie are allowing the theft of homes via the foreclosure process, so as to keep up the flow of business.

Same as it ever was.

Thieves.

[anduril]

Appalled, take another look at what I wrote. I referenced the fact that "no one is really sure what America stands for any more." You complain of "elites and judges," and rightly so, but if it were only the elites against the rest of the country, our problems wouldn't be as serious as they are. The Dem base is 40% of the population. When you look at the policy differences involved that's a nation divided. If we weren't a nation seriously divided, we wouldn't be having this debate about a mosque.

[anduril]

Steve Sailer (the other guy who reads the NYT) has a Kagan item today: Elena Kagan's brother's school melts down over quotas:

Here's a new NYT story about the elite NYC public high school from which Supreme Court nominee Elena Kagan graduated and where her mother taught and where her brother teaches. They're having yet another crisis over race. Kagan's brother was apparently involved in pulling off a coup against a principal who didn't want quotas. (Maybe somebody should have asked Elena Kagan about whether she was for or against quotas at her old high school? Nah, that would have been Too Interesting.)

Of course, this story is unfolding in a predictable, ho-hum fashion: there's a fancy NYC public high school that requires applicants to take an objective exam. Asians are coming to dominate the school, and some people are demanding quotas for blacks and Hispanics...

[jimmyk]

it's attack of the VIPS

Yuck. Our boy a*****l would feel right at home in that group.

[narciso the harpoon]

As with the David Byrne song "How did we get here" most immigrant groups as a general proposition are culturally conservative, even reactionary, in the first generation, what rse has pointed out about the left shaping the academy and the wider culture, is on point

[anduril]

Appalled, I just came up with a bit of controversy that further illustrates the point we were discussing: Is it getting embarrassing to be a conservative?

That's the question that Stephen Bainbridge, prominent conservative legal beagle, is asking. Here's Powerline's summary:

A few days ago, Stephen Bainbridge wrote a blog post called "It's getting embarrassing to be a conservative." He listed ten reasons why, for him, this is so. These three will give you the flavor:

1. A poorly educated ex-sportswriter who served half of one term of an minor state governorship is prominently featured as a -- if not the -- leading prospect for the GOP's 2012 Presidential nomination.

5. .Thanks to the Tea Party, the Nevada GOP has probably pissed away a historic chance to oust Harry Reid. See also Charlie Crist in Florida, Rand Paul in Kentucky, and so on. Whatever happened to not letting perfection be the enemy of the good?

6. The anti-science and anti-intellectualism that pervade the movement.

Every conservative probably has a list of reasons why it is often frustrating to be a conservative. Mine includes a few of the items on Professor Bainbridge's full list.

But Tom Smith of Right Coast does a great job of gently pointing out the element of self-indulgence (my term, not Smith's) in Bainbridge's post. Smith concludes, "one can be a little embarrassed about the low points of current conservatism, but one has to consider the alternatives."

For our purposes, here's what I think Tom Smith of Right Coast get's especially, er, right:

Or take Sarah Palin, who graduated from the University of Idaho, whose alma mater was sung at my father's funeral, so don't neg the U of I around me. She's not as well educated as Michelle Obama. She's not as well educated as a President or Vice President should be. But had she gone to Harvard Law her ideas about the constitution would be a lot less sound than they happen to be. That is what we have come to. The prestige of such ancient institutions as we have are now used as weapons against the most fundamental principles of our frame of government and really our way of life. This means we are in a bad way. It's as if we have to defend ourselves against invaders and for the last 50 years West Point had been teaching that war is wrong and love is all you need. We have just put a former dean of the Harvard Law School on the Supreme Court in the certain knowledge that at the first opportunity she will rule that absolutely nothing in the Constitution prevents the federal government from requiring a person to buy insurance from some private company. Nothing. And it was probably the right thing to do because there were many far worse people our president would have been happy to nominate, all of them with resumes to die for.

[Extraneus]

You wanna get pissed off? No? Then don't read this.

BYRON YORK: Justice Department steers money to favored groups

[anduril]

jimmyk, you keep writing "a*****l". I have to admit, I've been puzzling over this and I confess that I'm completely flummoxed. Could you please satisfy my curiosity by filling in the missing letters where the five asterisks appear?

[Rob Crawford]

jimmyk, you keep writing "a*****l".

Either: "sshoa" or "nduri". The meanings are interchangeable.

[narciso the harpoon]

On the essential things, the 10th Amendment, the right to bear arms, the non rights of enemy combatants, the pursuit of property she happens to be right, unlike the con law scholar and his consort. Mayber because she has had experience with many of these things

That she didn't answer 20 questions from a credentialed harpy like Couric, to the intelligentsia's satisfaction, that thinking
worked out well. She doesn't have the covetiousness of that self style
prairie populist, Edwards either

[Pofarmer]

Can we vote anduril off the island?

[anduril]

The meaning of "anduril" I know, and you should feel free to use my name without disguise. But what's the meaning of "asshoal"? Is it anything like "dumbass"?

[anduril]

Can we vote anduril off the island?

You missed out on that vote? You're not on the email list that "we" use?

[Captain Hate]

She's not as well educated as a President or Vice President should be.

How did the founding fathers miss out on codifying this necessary qualification? Does either Obumbles or Bite-Me strike anybody as demonstrably well educated?

[Pofarmer]

You're not on the email list that "we" use?

That's a relief.

[Pofarmer]

Name anybody currently in Congress that qualifies, Capt. My guess is, you could count them without taking your socks off.

[Janet]

Loved the Chicagoboyz link at 9:48 Thomas! Thanks.

[Clarice]

I think the mosque is a disgrace and all and the DoJ program is awful but the August surprise--renegotiating the principal on underwater mortgages seems to me to be something which could so unsettle the markets that it is my greater concern.

What could be done to stop this if the rumor proves true?

[Danube of Thought]

When we tell the world, “Yes, we are a country that will even tolerate a mosque near the site of 9/11,” we send such a powerful message of inclusion and openness.

At least we can say in the poor sap's defense that he actually believes that.

[Rob Crawford]

She's not as well educated as a President or Vice President should be.

Much like that stupid illiterate hick monkey, Abraham Lincoln...

Actually, the words "well educated" in this context should be read as "properly credentialed", with the credentials being carefully determined and awarded by the far left. It's simply impossible for a conservative to be considered "well educated" in modern America, because leftists will simply redefine the term to exclude the conservative of the moment.

And, yes, I'm aware this criticism comes from a nominal conservative. I'm also aware that many conservatives still suffer from a reflexive need to seek the approval of leftists, and still view the world through that filter. If anything, an Ivy League education should be a disqualifier for office; evidence of being a member of a herd hostile to the American ideals. A legal education should similarly be suspect, as too many lawyers are content with "reforming" the nation into a judicial oligarchy.

[Rob Crawford]

but the August surprise--renegotiating the principal on underwater mortgages seems to me to be something which could so unsettle the markets that it is my greater concern.

The proper description of the August surprise is "tyranny". It is the theft of wealth from those who have wisely managed their money and fulfilled their obligations and intend on continuing to do so, in order to buy votes from those who have not.

[Captain Hate]

Po, I'm usually pretty loathe to call anybody smart or stupid based on what I see on the MFM. The reason I say that is an experience long ago when I saw Leon Botstein on Nightline and he struck me as a pinhead. I subsequently saw him speak at Bard College and found him brilliant; and that pointed out the distortion that speaking in sound bytes can have on what calls for a protracted explanation. Being able to distill an argument to the essential points is a skill, I suppose, but it still leaves something unsaid. Often glibness is confused with intelligence.

When the MFM calls Obamboozler smart I say bullshit. When they call Palin stupid I say bullshit. There probably are a lot of intelligent members of Congress but also a lot of flatout dumbasses.

[anduril]

Re Sarah Palin and Abraham Lincoln, I'm not holding my breath waiting for Sarah to come up with a Gettysburg Address or a Second Inaugural Address. That's not necessarily a knock. Just sayin'.

[Rick Ballard]

ISTM that George Washington and Abraham Lincoln were both very deficient wrt possession of appropriate credentials regarding their education. What was the electorate thinking?

Mel,

The piece you linked was interesting but it neglected any mention of the default by the borrower which placed the property in foreclosure. There's another story buried there having to do with manipulation of tranche performance during the seasoning period when the SEC required reporting. Swapping bad loans out and replacing them with good loans in order to enhance credit ratings and prices is just as fraudulent as post dating documents.

[Melinda Romanoff]

DoT-

Here's the Press release on claims. Scroll down to the data table.

The topline is the headline, but the second line is the first one I look at, then down to the second Ins. Unemployment (NSA), which is the real continuing claimants number, the pool of people who are getting regular unemployment support. I also have last weeks release because the week before's number, because this has been revised every week for the last eighteen months, at least, and always revised up.

Lastly, I drop down to the EUC (Emergency Unemployment Claims) to note the size of the pool of people who have fallen off the regular unemployment rolls and are now receiving the Congressionally gifted funds. This peaked at about 6 million, and has been falling since last January.

So, in summary, this week's headline number was 479K, up 19K from an upwardly revised 460K last week. Contin claims were down 34K to 4,537,000 from an upwardly (6K) revised 4,570,869.

Which looks bad at face value, lets dig into the real numbers.

NSA-Non-Seasonably Adjusted

NSA claims 399,570, down 14,247 from an upwardly revised (+2,710) 413,817.

Opinion? Slowing, good.

NSA Continuing Claims 4,418,756 down 152,113 from an upwardly revised (+5,947) 4,570,869.

Opinion? In an growing economy, this would ordinarily be a good number, but it's people falling off the rolls into EUC.

As the EUC falls these are people that are gone from the rolls and are now merely part of the census. Or, an unproductive part of the economy.

Tomorrow's number is way more complicated.

I hope this helps.

[anduril]

This is what I like--a nice free wheeling discussion without anyone worrying about what's OT or not.

[narciso the harpoon]

Yes, you have been contemptous of her since Day One, but can you point any issue where
she really been wrong, one might argue TARP but from all indications, she hadextraordinary
reservations, so much so, that Paulson to keep
reassuring 'ahem' lying about what it was for

[Melinda Romanoff]

True Rick, nice catch, but when suspecting the worst from bad characters, well, let's just say I have chemically resistant gloves for a reason.

[Creeping islam]

"Victory Mosque," "Triumph Mosque," these phrases sum up the situation entirely.

[Captain Hate]

I'm not holding my breath waiting for Sarah to come up with a Gettysburg Address or a Second Inaugural Address. That's not necessarily a knock. Just sayin'.

We'll probably never find out but she seems to rise to the occasion when giving a speech. That's probably a reflection of her television experience as much as anything and her ability to connect with her audience. Clinton was good at that but his speeches were inevitably unedited monstrosities of forgettable verbiage; completely disorganized just like his life.

[Clarice]

As I recall, even the JournOlists conceded her nominating speech was fantastic--it's at that point they decided they had to really smear her.

[Extraneus]

Meet Sarah Palin.

VP acceptance speech.

[Captain Hate]

**FLEDGLING UPDATE**

I heard at least 2 of the little guys this morning but couldn't locate them in the hedges. I just heard one of them sounding fairly far away from the house so I expect their development is continuing its rapid pace and that parental involvement will diminish to nothing shortly.

[Janet]

Obama, McCain, Biden, & Palin. The only one I could listen to & cheer was Palin. Talking heads TOLD me the other 3 were great, but Palin was the only one I thought was great.

[Danube of Thought]

Thanks, Mel. Could you maybe summarize? Incidentally, I've been assuming you are a lady, but then I saw something about your wife having surgery--or have I been misreading these posts?

[narciso the harpoon]

I know Janet, and half the speech was a tribute to McCain, that he couldn't come up with himself, 'my friends'and then they stabbed her in the back

[Danube of Thought]

Somebody refresh me: at this moment who has the authority to forgive the principal (or anything else) on a loan previously held by Fannie or Freddie?

[Extraneus]

Not that there's anything wrong with that.

[Rob Crawford]

I'm not holding my breath waiting for Sarah to come up with a Gettysburg Address or a Second Inaugural Address.

You have no idea how the Gettysburg Address was received at the time, do you?

[centralcal]

DoT - think back to the Libby days - Mel(inda) used to post here under another name, just as you did.

[centralcal]

...at this moment who has the authority...

Gosh, DoT, with this administration when has "having authority" to do anything much mattered? They see themselves as The Authority over pretty much everything!

[jimmyk]

Often glibness is confused with intelligence.

See Friedman, Thomas.

[centralcal]

On the subject of Sarah Palin - I would vote for her in a heartbeat for President. My only concern is could she generate enough votes to win.

[Jim Ryan]

Obama, McCain, Biden, & Palin

Whom would you prefer to be marooned on an island with or have as your next-door neighbor for life?

Which of these four would grasp American founding principles as deeply as Reagan did after doing the amount of reading Reagan did in his middle-aged years? Which three of them would still not get it?

[Danube of Thought]

I can't recall Mel's earlier name. Could it have been, say, "Mel?"

I realize they seem to think they can do whatever they want, but I'm just wondering what process they would go through. If the president were to issue an executive order decreeing it, for example, I am quite confident that the existing holders of the loans could succeed with ease in getting a court to rule in their favor.

[jimmyk]

at this moment who has the authority to forgive the principal (or anything else) on a loan previously held by Fannie or Freddie?

Unfortunately, probably the same clowns deemed to have the authority to confiscate the wealth of the GM bondholders and give it to the UAW.

[Danube of Thought]

Jimmyk, it was a bankruptcy court that did that.

Minus 14 at Raz today.

Minus 5.4 at RCP, and all-time low.

[fdcol63]

I'd rather have a humble, proud, patriotic American with a lot of common sense as POTUS than a "well-educated", Ivy League, Marxist elite.

[Janet]

Me too fdcol63. She would have to come in with some STRONG conservatives too. The entrenched leftists & the media would be relentless. Phony Plame & DOJ firings would be multiplied by hundreds IMO.

[Janet]

narciso the harpoon - Do you have any interest in coming to the 8-28 Restoring Honor rally? Sarah is gonna be one of the speakers. If you & a family member &/or friends would like to come I'd be glad to put you up. Maybe take the train & I'll pick you up at Union Station?...if you would ever like to, just give a holler. Same holds for the 9-12 Tea Party.

[Jim Ryan]

I dunno. As long as my POTUS drinks chardonnay and is passingly familiar with contemporary literary criticism, I'd prefer him, whatever his politics (we all have our politics, don't we?), to someone who likes Bud and potentially owns a Lynyrd Skynyrd album.

[centralcal]

DoT - if you are good at anagrams you should be able to recall Mel's former name using this: report

Janet - no matter WHO becomes President from our side he/she will be inundated with liberal media slander 24/7. Fortunately, larger and larger numbers of Americans are onto them (recall their polling numbers are as dismal as Congresses).

[matt]

The history of Islam as presented to us today is a sham. The narrative both within and without the Ummah is one of victimization and and oppression.The reality is the opposite.

Now we are faced with the Al-Jihadi (The Jihadi)mosque at the site of the greatest single terrorist attack against Western Civilization by militant Islam.

We all know that in 20 years, when we have withdrawn from Afghanistan and both there and Iraq are jihadi havens that is what this particular mosque will be re-named.

Our "leadership" class is trying to force a myth down our throats once again when in fact it is a direct and knowing insult.

Maybe these are the trials of Job, or maybe something darker, but for the life of me I don't get the utter disconnect between the facts and perception both right and left.

[glasater]

So it appears that This Gigantic Fannie And Freddie Giveaway Has Been In The Works Since Last December and to go along--

Ahead Of Stress Test, Standard Chartered Says Chinese Property Market Correction Now Imminent

[narciso the harpoon]

You want to know the permanence of Islamic nomenclature, the Rock of Gibraltar, celebrates Tariq, the conqueror of the Iberian peninsula

[Captain Hate]

How badly do you think the MFM's stature has been damaged in the last 2 years? I realize they've bled out massive quantities of red ink and continue to do so; but what percentage of the population do you think regards the alphabet networks', NYT and WaPo's news reporting as having a significant amount of credibility?

[Janet]

owns a Lynyrd Skynyrd album.

LOL Jim!! That is my #1 reason for liking/disliking ANYBODY! Hahaha
BTW narciso, before you can stay at my house...do you own a Lynyrd Skynyrd album?

[Rick Ballard]

The Cleveland Fed has been generating gargle re a partial jubilee (see the stripdown piece on ag loans). It is also in the forefront regarding making the CRA "more responsive".

Don't forget that the Fed owns a substantial portion of the GSE mortgage pools - if they hold more than 75% of a particular MBS and agree to a stripdown, the courts might uphold the action. Such an action might have some small impact on the GSE bond market as a whole though.

[Rob Crawford]

The history of Islam as presented to us today is a sham. The narrative both within and without the Ummah is one of victimization and and oppression.The reality is the opposite.

No, the history of the Ummah is one of victimization and oppression -- the victimization and oppression of everyone else by the Ummah.

(he constant citation of the Crusades as one of Christianity's "biggest crimes" is laughable, as it came long after the sack and rape of Christian lands by Muslim invaders. The Inquisition pales in comparison to the daily activities of the state-as-god powers the Progressives loved until it became impolitic. Even the conquest of the New World will fade in comparison to the evils of contemporary leftism -- the Conquistadors did not understand disease vectors and had no idea of inoculation; the moderns who endlessly block the best ways to control disease do it despite knowing better.

[Rob Crawford]

You want to know the permanence of Islamic nomenclature, the Rock of Gibraltar, celebrates Tariq, the conqueror of the Iberian peninsula

You mean the Pillars of Hercules?

[glasater]

Yesterday on CNBC a fellow was interviewed who is starting some type of investment vehicle which involved strips of non-performing real estate loans.
I'll try to find the video...

[fdcol63]

I could see banning those who buy Bud ... but I'm willing to give a pass to those who merely drink it at a party or something. LOL

[narciso the harpoon]

This is what I was referring too, Rob, I know
you were joking, in the LUN

[Ignatz]

Frickin typepad.
Let me try this one again.
Here are a couple of interesting OT articles from John Tamny at RCM.
The first one is about the stupidity of the auto bailouts.
The second one is an interesting exposition on widely feared deflation.