Shut Up, They Explained - National Security At Ground Zero

Scott Shane of the NY Times explains that opponents of the Ground Zero mosque are recruiting for Al Qaeda and endangering America:

U.S. Anti-Islam Protest Seen as Lift for Extremists
By SCOTT SHANE

WASHINGTON — Some counterterrorism experts say the anti-Muslim sentiment that has saturated the airwaves and blogs in the debate over plans for an Islamic center near ground zero in Lower Manhattan is playing into the hands of extremists by bolstering their claims that the United States is hostile to Islam.

Opposition to the center by prominent politicians and other public figures in the United States has been covered extensively by the news media in Muslim countries. At a time of concern about radicalization of young Muslims in the West, it risks adding new fuel to Al Qaeda’s claim that Islam is under attack by the West and must be defended with violence, some specialists on Islamic militancy say.

A quick fairness and balance check:

Many Republican politicians, including Newt Gingrich and Sarah Palin, have said that the proposed location of the center showed insensitivity to the victims of 9/11.

Others political leaders, including President Obama, Mayor Michael R. Bloomberg of New York and Gov. Christopher J. Christie of New Jersey, have defended the right of Muslims to build the center or warned against anti-Muslim hysteria.

Hmm.  News that was not fir to print includes the tidbits that Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid and former Presidential candidate and DNC chair Howard Dean have also come out against the mosque.  Not to mention our Muslim Miss USA.  And when she says "Move it", people move.  (When she says "Too close", I do hope people move away...).

Let the bashing begin!

1.  Do As I Say... Does anyone remember the Times reporting that anti-war protestors emboldened Saddam in early 2003, or have emboldened the Taliban in Afghanistan?  The Times has reported that Obama's self-imposed July 2011 deadline for withdrawal undermined the credibility and perceived commitment of US troops in Afghanistan;will they bash the anti-war crowd for that?  There was no such bashing in this recent editorial.

2.  I Have A Feeling We Aren't In Kansas Anymore:  Nor are we on the Upper West Side.  Team Bush was criticized for misoverestimating the extent to which the values and aspirations of liberated Iraqis mirrored conventional Americans.  Yet the Times 'experts' seem to think that moderate Muslims have some expectation that America ought to allow a Victory Mosque at Ground Zero, and that a failure to allow it can only represent anti-Islam fervor in the States.

A plausible alternative is that moderate Muslims in the Near East will have the same reaction to the proposed mosque as most Americans outside the Upper West Side (and the Huffington Post readership), which is "Why there?"  The Times elicited just such reactions from their Muslim In The Street interviews in Manhattan; the CSM and WaPo note such reactions in editorials abroad.

3.  Find Other Experts:  Extremists will be free to point to this project as a Victory Mosque; since symbols mean what people think they mean, who will refudiate them?  An Afghan village elder contemplating the Victory Mosque and weighing his choice between Karzai/Petraeus and the Taliban might be disheartened after the local Taliban leader explains that America won't stand up for itself in New York City, and surely won't stand up for the elder in some dusty village in Afghanistan.

Plausible?  My insight into the psychology of Afghan village elders is on a par with my insight into the expectations of moderate Muslims in the Near East.  Put another way, who knows?

Foreign policy savant Dan Drezner, mosque supporter, urged surrender to the terrorists in a recent post:

You know what? Let the terrorists win.

...I'm getting really sick of "the terrorists will win" line of criticism being levied against those wishing to prevent construction of the mosque. 

You know, I remember oh so many years ago the constant use of "if you say X, or criticize policy Y, or challenge official Z, then the terrorists win" kind of discourse.  It was horses**t then, and it's horses**t now.  I'll be damned if I'm going to see debate in the United States circumscribed because of fears of how Al Qaeda will react.

IMITATION AND THE SINCEREST FORM OF FLATTERY:  In the course of checking Al Jazeera coverage of the Ground Zero Mosque I was struck by there use of this stock phrase:

But top Republicans including Sarah Palin, the former vice-presidential candidate, and Newt Gingrich, the former speaker of the House of Representatives, have already announced their opposition.

And in another story:

The proposed mosque has emerged as a national political issue, with prominent members of the Republican party like vice presidential candidate Sarah Palin to former House of Representatives Speaker Newt Gingrich voicing their opposition.

Sarah and Newt, just like the Times.

Comments

[Clarice]

I went to daylife yesterday to check out the day's photos and sure enough the supporters of the GZM had already lined up people in hijabs (from NJ) to walk past the site for the photogs and even a few dozen who posed inside as if getting ready to pray.

[Captain Hate]

Scott Shane == Duranty's spawn

[Steve C.]

Arguing that our decisions "inflame" our opponents is an unprovable assertion. There really are bad guys trying to kill us. Does this controversy make them more or less likely to continue their efforts to kill us? This is a profound misreading of human psychology. And, if you are going to couch your arguments in these terms, the stronger argument is that allowing this constitutes more of a moral victory for the bad guys than not allowing it.

At least in the 1930s, appeasers were motivated (wrongly) by the idea that peace could be purchased by ameliorating tensions. Now we have a segment of our society who view appeasement through the lens of their own self image. Moral fiber just isn't in it.

[Steve Diamond]

The same Scott Shane who somehow could not find any relationship between Bill Ayers and Obama? Why am I not surprised? My view of the Mosque Imbroglio and the role of Obama's Zebra Nation worldview can be found at King Harvest (LUN). Have a nice weekend.

[Danube of Thought]

I'm at the point where I really don't give a shit if they get "inflamed," and it seems pretty clear to me that a foreign (or domestic) policy shaped to avoid inflaming these bastards is a loser from the word go.

Our victories in the Southwest Pacific "created" hordes of Kamikaze pilots. So what you do is, you fight the assholes until you win and they lose.

[jorod]

They should build a mosque at ground zero when they build a synagogue at the Kaaba.

[Captain Hate]

Great link Prof. Diamond; always a pleasure when you stop by.

[Clarice]

I'm with you, DoT.
Nice to see you Steve. I liked your article. Esp. this part:
"In our “Zebra Nation,” resolution of racial and ethnic division in favor of a genuinely integrated and pluralist nation is impossible so provocative demands are used instead to gain leverage by “shouting fire in a crowded theater,” thus shocking any (white) people from responding or even better clearing the room entirely and allowing control of the space to shift. Examples abound: calling for open borders with Mexico, waving Mexican flags en masse at immigrant rights’ marches, abandoning the goal of Brown v. Board of Education and integration in schools and housing and instead calling for a return to Plessy v. Ferguson and “separate but equal,” or, in an international context, the so-called Gaza “Freedom” Flotilla.

This same approach is what lies behind the provocation of proposing the mosque in the first place and Obama was clearly intent on riding that sentiment. And that is a way of understanding his use of the Henry Gates situation, the Sherrod affair and the Terror Trial in NYC.

Of course, many on the left fall for this phoney radicalism just as they did in the era of the CP. Then, the CP was really an arm of the Kremlin but posed as a radical anti-racist pro-worker organization. Yet it would not fail to betray its radicalism at the whim of its Moscow handlers. Those on the left today who fall for the apparent radicalism of a Bill Ayers or a Barack Obama or a Van Jones or a Valerie Jarrett should pay attention to what is happening with economic and foreign policy. The same bankers who nearly destroyed the economy remain in power, GM is back after shedding its unruly workers at plants like Fremont, California and the predator drones continue their illegal and deadly flights."

[Carol Herman]

Religious permits have been granted to the Burlington Coat Factory's location. They are already holding "prayers" there. Filling two floors. This was reported, today, in the NY Post. And, this is going to be an international fund raiser. Shows ya that politicianshave the agencies that charge money for licenses to sell this crap. Still, not a good neighborhood. Like the old 42nd Street, it's full of smut stores. And, you can buy adult sex toys of all sorts. Maybe, that's when the muslims figured out they could "do something" with a boarded up store?

As to the assorted politicians, it shows ya, that resisting the graft is about as easy as "resisting" Bernie Madoff, when he "offered" to take your money.

We are, indeed, screwed.

[matt]

this was "heads I win, tails I win" for Imam Rauf. He now has his street cred with the Islamists whether the mosque gets built or not. The Islamists in the meantime have something new for the Friday Night Hate.

[Carol Herman]

Dear DoT. Alas, since Vietnam, and the "body bag counting" system used by careerist officers, America no longer has leadership capable of killing enemy combatants. Made worse, because we don't want to hurt "civilians" either. And, at our military complexes, where training takes place, the way to earn your way up, is to identify uniforms. Enemies wearing rags gets schools and hospitals built. And, our volunteer army gets limited supplies of bullets. And, lots of paperwork grief, should they encounter hostilities.

Grant & Sherman have been erased. (While Eisenhower, holding back in Berlin, let Patton chomp at the bid. The russians put in more than a million troops. 6 competing generals were vying for stalin's attention. And, all the tanks, at first, bogged down. Hitler, in his bunker, terrified that the russians would reach to his hole in the ground, began using daylight to hang german's from lamp posts. A few really terrified men, then just ran West. To be capured as prisoners of war.) That's our IKE.

You want to scare them across the globe? Tell them the russians are coming.

[rse]

Andy McCarthy and Roger Kimball as usual nail it on Islamophobia vs repecting and encouraging moderate Muslims.

LUN to Andy who has the link to Kimball.

Thanks Steve. Your cite months ago to LDH's "Democracy at Risk" added great insights into what the actual planned path is for these new national Common Core standards.

[squaredance]

They just keep searching for a meme that will stick.

Shameless accusations. Shameless doublespeak.

Decent people would stop and review their beliefs and actions, but they just keep at it--redouble their efforts, if fact..

It is fairly obvious that this is not a case of being misguided; it is a case of advancing another front in the culture war. Now it will be Muslim rights.

These people with their perverseness and bizarre nominalism cannot make a single utterance that does speak against all sanity, common sense, morality or decency. They are incapable of getting one thing right. The consistency of this show not the character of the misguided but that of the willfully evil.

Now average Americans who wish to express what should be the most valid and common position possible are held to be "endangering national security" while Muslims, who we have been at war with for almost a decade and who are trying to build a "Victory Mosque" over the site of a ghastly assault again us, are not considered to be anything else but victims.

A issue of National security? Youbetcha it is. They here are being more honest about their motives then they intend to be. We should call them on this.

In fact, it is going to be deeply hard to win hearts and minds in the ME--not to mention retain local political allies--when we do idiotic stuff like this.

In fact, it is tey who are :endangering national security:, doing it quite intentionally and then casting the blame on others.

Straight out of Stalin.

It is like something out of a Waugh or Wolfe novel.

They appear to be doubling down on this effort and it appears to be climbing higher in the Nomenklatura.

We are really reaching a point of no return here.

Again, my money says that the GZM gets built and thrown in our faces.

They really cannot help themselves for their hatred for this nation consumes them.

[MarkO]

Coming soon: if you oppose the mosque, you hate your mother.

[Danube of Thought]

America no longer has leadership capable of killing enemy combatants

Balls. They're far better at it than they've ever been. And the bodies we counted in Vietnam weren't in bags.

[squaredance]

Yea, they might get so "inflamed" that they fly some planes onto some buildings.

the sooner we move from inflaming their emotions to to wholesale immolation the better.

[PD]

U.S. Anti-Islam Protest Seen as Lift for Extremists

1) I thought the "anti" was directed at the mosque.

2) By this logic, you should never oppose anything because by doing so, you lose.

[Captain Hate]

Some tool told me after 9/11 that by going into Afghanistan and Iraq we were just doing what the jihadis wanted. By that logic you should just sit back until everybody gets their throat slit, secure in the knowledge that we didn't get provoked into doing the wrong thing.

Those are teh smart ones.

[gsr]

We brought the cult of Mohammed and his follower's here through open, never-ending, mass immigration, now some Americans complain, how is this (mosque building) happening?

You put a man in the White House who has a life-long history with Islam and communism and you wonder why his policies and his rhetoric is anti-American, anti-free enterprise, anti-individual rights.

[Danube of Thought]

you wonder why his policies and his rhetoric is anti-American, anti-free enterprise, anti-individual rights.

Who wonders?

[Danube of Thought]

His week ain't getting any better:

WEST TISBURY - Welcome to Martha’s Vineyard, Mr. President - but don’t go in the water!

President Obama, who took a plunge in the Gulf last week to show Americans it was safe to swim the oil spill-plagued area, arrived on this supposedly pristine island yesterday in the midst of a rash of bacteria-induced beach closings.

Portions of Tisbury Great Pond, the salt-water lagoon fronting the first family’s vacation estate Blue Heron Farm, were closed earlier this week due to high levels of enterococci, an indi

[Ignatz]

I like Professor Diamond's disdain for the radical left in general and Barry and his cohorts in particular and for his fairminded and reasonable method of discourse, but the pedastel upon which he places unions and unionism, including public employee unions, is pretty disconcerting.

[Pasadena Phil]

Here is the problem with reporters who offer propaganda purporting to be "journalism":

"Some counterterrorism experts say...."

You can say ANYTHING if you predicate your point in that manner. Obviously, other counterterrorism experts think differently. So what is the point?

Who is he writing for? The Nobel Prize committee?

[narciso]

Its' a shame about Kohlmann, he refuses to consider how the hagiography around Aulaqi
to cite one example, that has been rather
brutally debunked, shapes how the opposition
has arisen, Isn't it sad though, that English Aljazeera is fairer then the Times

[centralcal]

So the Hamosque is already in operation and has been since 2009! And the only media outlet to report this TODAY is NY Post? Looks like the squatters have already squatted and it will be next to impossible to remove them.

[narciso]

What's that line, from the "Wedding Singer"
things I should have been made aware yesterday.

[centralcal]

Bill Kristol blogged this yesterday:

A savvy friend with lots of political experience writes:

In the uncertain world of politics there is one absolute certainty: when the Washington Post or New York Times runs a story in which Republicans are "warning" other Republicans to not use an issue or change their message, the issue is a grand slam home run for the GOP.

To that end I noticed that the Post just ran an article for which they found some Republicans (none who’s ever run for office) “warning" Republicans about the Mosque issue--as if there is a down side to being with two thirds of the American public and Harry Reid and Howard Dean. I trust the candidates will know better.

I bring it up today, because I think too many would like the mosque issue to take seats in the back of the bus of campaign issues. Now that we know the Imam has already set up shop for over a YEAR, I think this word needs to spread far and wide.

[rrpjr]

Christopher Hitchens always had a great response to the Leftist plaint that anti-Islamism or anti-terrorism was recruiting more terrorists or allowing them to "win": how about making THEM fear that THEIR conduct was recruiting more Marines! God forbid that! The Left doesn't ever want you to think that way. The Left's goal is always to limit, stigmatize and finally paralyze any possible response to terrorism -- or any assault on your values, traditions and liberty.

[Boatbuilder]

I guess the real test of the good faith of the Cordoba House folks will be whether they let Rima Fakih swim in that swimming pool (she's welcome in mine!). Or Hirsi Ali.

[narciso]

Meanwhile, the Russians show fairly good sense in one area, in the LUN, but are dropping the ball in another

[Romeo13]

Um, UnNamed Counter Terror Experts...

Who? What EXACTLY did they say? Source please? Whats the Sources expertise in Counter Terrorism?

Ohhhh... get it from the CAIR Anti Terorism Expert?

Sorry, but when you worry too much about inflaming the enemy, it prooves you are loosing the fight.

[narciso]

Of course, the slimmer version of Joe (certainly) and Valerie, Hilary and Flynt
Leaveritt, are at again, at a link on Drezner's site

[MarkO]

So long as the country is being run by the kids who where beat up at recess, had their pants run up the flag pole and watched helplessly while others took their dates home from the dance, we will be in appeasement mode. Whle I'm at it, I think that may well have happened to Mitt, Newt and Huck.

[MarkO]

*were*

[Pagar]

"Whle I'm at it, I think that may well have happened to Mitt, Newt and Huck."

That is why we need Sarah.

[Clarice]

Very funny,Mark. Kristol's notion is right though perhaps not that original.

[Extraneus]

Yes, the Student Government I remember wasn't exactly a hotbed of testosterone, either.

[Thomas Collins]

I wonder how hard Shane tried to find counterterrorism experts who have concluded that the GZM will be a jihadist recruiting tool by showing that jihadism is the strong horse in America. My guess is he simply went to those who would support the Sulzberger view of the situation. That's why I consider the NY Times's political and international "news" reporting to be one big op ed page.

[Thomas Collins]

See LUN for an example of young jihadists who live in an area overrunning with the multiculturalist minset (in this case, the Boston area). Somehow living in the liberal Boston area hasn't convinced these young men to abandon jihad.

[Frau Steingehirn]

"You want to scare them across the globe? Tell them the russians are coming."

Unfortunately since Afghanistan, they are not *those* Russians any longer; however, they don't worry about world opinion, do they? Why must we?

[PD]

If leftists believed their own logic about "inflaming," they would conclude that their style of government is inflaming more people into becoming Tea Partiers who will vote them out of office, and quit governing that way.

[Thomas Collins]

See LUN for a more thorugh analysis of the possible motivations of those behind the GZM than one could expect to find in the NY Times.

[Publius from Idaho]

Over at AT Bill Costello has an article "National Eduation Association Selling its Saul" where he links to a NEA website, which recommends its members read books by communist sympathizer Saul Alinsky. And, for a time the websiste listed October 1 as a day for teachers and students to celebrate the anniversary of the communist takeover of China by Mao Zedong. LUN

As parents send their children back to school this year, how many will realize what oblivion they are marching them into?

[Thomas Collins]

I wonder how long it will take the Ruling Class to focus on real religious harassment, such as that faced by Kashmiri Sikhs from adherents of Islam. See LUN.

[Steve Diamond]

Ignatz, Thank you for your comment. I do in fact consider my self to be on the left but I think unfortunately that now requires qualifiers so I say I am on the democratic left to distinguish myself from the authoritarian left, which I presume to mean what you call the radical left.

As for trade unions, I believe they remain at least in principle a force for democracy and a counter balance to other centers of power in society including government. That said I am well known in the labor movement for my critical analysis of union bureaucracy and other problems, and if you search my site for "Andy Stern" or SEIU you will see what I mean.

Best,

Steve Diamond

[betwy]

Rima Fakih (Miss USA) is not really a mooooslim. I'm here in Dearbornistan, Michigan.

She was born in Lebanon, grew up in Queens, NY, all the way through high school. Only recently moved to Dearborn, Mich.

She has been deliberately vague about whether she is a moooslim or a Christian.

Chances are, she's not a moooslim, otherwise it would not be tolerated - the way she dresses, acts, poses for raunchy photos, goes to bars, used to work in a strip club.

My opinion, she's not a mooooslim.

[Thomas Collins]

If the NY Times, were a serious newspaper, it would do a thorough study on the young jihadist males who attend Western higher educational institutions, and examine the impact these institutions have on these Muslim males taking up jihad. One sure bet: a serious study would not conclude that these males undertake jihad due to Western zoning practices inhibiting the building of mosques.

[squaredance]

If you want to see some truly weird puff pieces on the folks behind the GZM and red some really dimwitted and offensive editorials-some written by Jews no less--pick up the latest New York Observer.

It is worth it if only out of anthropological interest.

[squaredance]

If the NYT were a serious newspaper, someone with a half a brain or more would read it.

[daveinboca]

"some specialists on Islamic militancy say" who shall remain nameless, of course, as the NYT's Shane uses the shoddiest journalistic lazyboy shortcut of all.

The NYT is hemorrhaging about 5% of paid circ every six months and it will begin to subsist on its outside investments, like the WaPo which is financed by it Kaplan subsidiary and runs a deep-in-the-red newspaper as a hobby. Alex Trebek and NYT's other "hobbies" may keep its nose above the waterline, but pilot fish like LAT, Jazeera, & other editorial stenographers are also pissing away cash like champagne though a firehose.

Ditto with Mess-NBC & the late unlamented CNN....!!

Remember the Christmas bloomer-bomber over Detroit? Or the Times Square Paki busted-flush pretty boy this Spring? Yet the NYT & the networks can't stop yammering about Katrina, which was the fault of the crooked New Orleans Demonrat political machine cutting corners & getting kickbacks over fifty years on levee maintenance.

Let's expose Al-Rauf and Quisling Hooper at CAIR for the Muslim Brotherhood/Hamas sleeper cells they really are.

[narciso]

Nefa, you'll be surprised to know, is Kohlmann's outfit, he doesn't apparently read his own material

[narciso]

A quick cross section of what's available on his own site, one might even say thats' very extremist

[Danube of Thought]

"Some counterterrorism experts say...."

Many economists...

Many defense experts...

Middle East watchers...

(One of my all-time favorites was Sally Quinn, in a piece about Zbigniew Brzezinaki, citing "Brzezinski watchers.")

[PD]

Some journalists ...

... aren't.

[Janet]

I agree with rrpjr up at 2:11. They seem unconcerned about making us mad. I hate...HATE our media.

[narciso]

One wonders how they missed this little tidbit
at CNN, well it's Bobby Ghosh so it doesn't surprise, in the LUN

[narciso]

Here is the original source of what was in the Big Peace segment

[Kathy Kattenburg]

A plausible alternative is that moderate Muslims in the Near East will have the same reaction to the proposed mosque as most Americans outside the Upper West Side (and the Huffington Post readership), which is "Why there?"
And after those moderate Muslims get through asking themselves "Why there?" about the proposed Cordoba House project near Ground Zero, they will turn their attention to the battles over proposed mosques all over the country where locals are also saying "No, not here, build it somewhere else" -- everywhere from Staten Island (11 miles from Ground Zero -- also too close?), to Tennessee, to Wisconsin, to California -- and, scratching their heads again, and in bewildered tones, ask, "Okay, well, where then?"

You know? I mean, I'm just sayin'. That "why here" argument wears a little thin when "here" is everywhere and anywhere.

[Thomas Collins]

Kathy Kattenburg, it is not everywhere that (i) jihadists executed an attack on the US, (ii) among the buildings damaged or destroyed were a Greek Orthodox Church and a commercial building, (iii) those who want to rebuild the Greek Orthodox Church are getting short shrift from the local authorities, (iv) a developer buys property near the site of the attack and intends to build condos, (v) the developer has a change of heart (supposedly because he now has a higher purpose, although plausibly because the condo market isn't doing so well) and turns his attention to building a mosque supported by federal, state and local authorities, with funding for the mosque to be derived from unknown sources and with half the property needed for the mosque yet to be acquired, (vi) the new property wouild take the name of a place, Cordoba, which was a place of conquest by Mohammedans, (vii) unlike the case of the Greek Orthodox Church, there was no mosque in the area destroyed in the 9/11 jihadist attack on America, and (viii) despite the fact that a Greek Orthodox Church occupied a lot in the area, the same federal, state and local authorities so keen to show their support for a place of worship for Islam don't seem to have lifted a finger to support rebuilding a place of worship for Christians.

So, what's a "moderate" follow of Islam to think? Probably the same thought that would occur to most folks of common sense: D-H-I-M-M-M-I-T-U-D-E.

As far as the rest of the country goes, N-I-M-B-Y is not limited to mosques.

How much does it need to be spelled out that this project is a maximum no-go? How have we developed a Ruling Class with such a finely honed blend of stupidity and willful ignorance?

[Ignatz]

Thanks for your reply Mr. Diamond.
To the extent unions are a counterbalance to government they can be a healthy thing.
Unfortunately many seem to be more and more, at the very least, an ally of government and in some cases seemingly the fourth branch of. I believe that nexus is more of a danger to the country and the long term health of the unions themselves than anything corporate managements are doing.
In any event your demeanor and attitude are a breath of fresh air when discussing issues with those with whom you disagree.

[Love Country]

"In any event your demeanor and attitude are a breath of fresh air when discussing issues with those with whom you disagree."

Amen to that!

This country needs to get rid of politically correct and bring back common sense!

[Ellie Light]

Let them build the mosque. Surround it with a pig farm.