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August 17, 2010

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Neo

The lost distinction in all of this is that while the 1st amendment allows freedom of religion, it doesn't exempt anybody from building codes, zoning and other government rules and laws that apply to everybody.

I seem to remember (but the search engines don't seem to find any of) the many cases where churches were restricted in their size and placement based on parking and zoning rules.

Jeff

given that the building in question was hit by part of the landing gear and fuselage from one of the planes there is a better than even chance that there was also bits of people deposited there as well ...

non NY'ers don't understand the differences in "blocks" in NYC ... there are long blocks (east/west) and short blocks (north/ south) ... yes, city Hall is 4 blocks away, long blocks ...
Oh, and the strip club was there before 9/11 ... or so I've heard :)

It got hit by parts of one of the planes and seriously damaged ... had it also collapsed nobody would be trying to defend it ...

Sue

I saw this at American Thinker...what would these same people be saying if the Westboror Baptist Church was trying to locate there? Yeah. Great question.

Ignatz

--There is even a strip club three blocks south of Ground Zero, but nobody seems to have noticed that it is sullying the memory of the place.--

Just guessing, but perhaps that's because Carol Doda and Gypsy Rose Lee didn't fly planes into the WTC.

Danube of Thought

I love this issue. It's really got the hectoring do-gooders all hot to trot and putting themselves on display for our enjoyment.

NK

I agree with TM's posting in the main respect, but disagree with one important detail. The good Iman will be revealed as a let's get along kind of guy if he finds another location. If he pursues the GZM, he will be revealed as an Islamist conquerer holding a victory trophy for the Ummah in the US. We shall see. I disagree with TM about raising the money for the GZM. TM speaks as an infidel dealmaker; the GZM will be paid for by some laundered out arm of the House of Saud spreading Wahabism. That front group won't care about publicity or ROI, it's all about the power of the spread of Islam. There are hundreds of empty mosques in North and South America paid for by Wahabists to plant the flag of Islam in the home of the infidel,waiting for the day of the inevitable conquest by the Ummah. That's what they believe, that's what they do. It takes morally blind schmucks like Mayor Mike not to see that.

Jack is Back!

Greg Gutfeld has decided on a name for his gay bar next door: Dialog. You know, he is building Dialog:)

And as far as the Gentlemen's Club down the street, isn't it mandatory to have a strip club close by a place where young Islamists gather?

And as far as a gay bar goes, it will come as a sigh of relief to any taliban member of the mosque to have place they feel comfortable with after prayers and stoning some woman for showing her ankles.

Captain Hate

Damn Iggy; you're really dating yourself (in a non-onanistic way) by those names.

Janet

There was some deal about the site having a 'historic' designation too. I think it was they decided to NOT give it one. I live in a 'historic' designated neighborhood & it is the perfect means to stop any construction that you want. It is so vague that the board is all powerful in what gets approved.

It's as though someone wanted this thing fast tracked.

 centralcal

Bill Kristol posts this, and Rush just read it on air.

Beginning of the End - GZ Mosque?

Captain Hate

DoT, the amount of preening puts the world's supply of peacocks to shame.

jimmyk

the many cases where churches were restricted in their size and placement based on parking and zoning rules.

Yes, I know of such cases. Why has the Greek Orthodox Church, destroyed on 9/11 not been allowed to rebuild?
It's one thing to argue the mosque should be treated like any other religious facility, but this one seems to have been fast-tracked through the system. I don't think it's a stretch to cite the Ft. Hood shooter as a similar instance where authorities not only don't discriminate, but bend over backwards to reverse discriminate, with bad results in the end.

narciso

And the Sophist called, and said 'stop it, you're embarassing us' stick to the subject
at hand, not 'look squirrel'

Danube of Thought

From CCal's link we get Abdul Rahman al-Rashid, director of al-Arabiya TV and former editor of London’s Arab daily, Al-Sharq Al-Awsat, sounding like a right-wing nutjob:

Some Muslims will consider that building a mosque on this site immortalizes and commemorates what was done by the terrorists who committed their crime in the name of Islam. I do not think that the majority of Muslims want to build a symbol or a worship place that tomorrow might become a place about which the terrorists and their Muslim followers boast, and which will become a shrine for Islam haters whose aim is to turn the public opinion against Islam.
 centralcal

From my link above:

A column (h/t, MEMRI) in the August 16, 2010 London daily Al-Sharq Al-Awsat by Abdul Rahman Al-Rashid, director of Al-Arabiya TV and the paper's former editor, “A House of Worship or a Symbol of Destruction?” should mean the end of plans for a mosque near Ground Zero.


I do not think that the majority of Muslims want to build a symbol or a worship place that tomorrow might become a place about which the terrorists and their Muslim followers boast, and which will become a shrine for Islam haters whose aim is to turn the public opinion against Islam.”

 centralcal

lol, sorry DoT!

Rob Crawford

Anyone know what Al-Sharq Al-Awsat says about this?

Captain Hate

Soooooooo the trolls don't really accurately reflect the attitudes of the moderate muslims that they are forever referencing? Is that shocking to anybody?

Jane

The trolls do what they are told. Facts never matter to them.

 centralcal

I think Al-Rashid gets directly to the heart of matters: some Muslims will consider . . . and, that is the problem.

 centralcal

ding, ding, ding, Captain!

Captain Hate

Jane, I'm sure a script is being prepared to refute that arabic Uncle Tom as I type this.

narciso

they have mostly gone along with the Rauf as peace making moderate, and any opponent as haters

Mike Huggins

DoT - You got that right. For me this really does help clarify who the "the other side" is.

narciso

He does do a bit of the blame shifting, but that is a remarkably candid 'speaking truth
to power' where there are real consequences to this action

Captain Hate

Really narc: Countdown to Fatwa starring somebody far more dangerous and just as mentally addled as Bathtub Boy

Jack is Back!

The over/under on cleo and Bubu posting on this thread is now 360/210 (comment number).

Thomas Collins

Al-Awsat's column should be a must read for Bloomberg, Obama and every other pro-Cordoba House mosque pol. Cordoba House mosque supporters like to preen about how sensitive they are. Al-Awsat points out that a Cordoba House mosque will be viewed by jihadists as a symbol of jihad victory on 9/11, and thus will help jihadists in their battle with non-jihadist Muslims. One would think that a crew (the pro-Cordoba House mosque crowd) so attuned to cultural sensitivity, and so well educated (as opposed to the bitter clingers), could have figured this out.

Thomas Collins

I wonder whether those who have classified as Muslim haters opponents of the Cordoba House mosque and skeptics of the approval process will now also classify Al-Awsat as a Muslim hater.

Chubby

I wonder if the Kristol find represents a Sunni/Shia or somesuch sectarian divide/power struggle within Islam ..

Danube of Thought

I suspect that before they post here Cleo, Darwin and Bubu will want to work on those Dem congressman mentioned in the newer thread.

Oh, this is rich!

Don

Hmmm...hosting a Ramadan dinner at the WH but not attending National Day of Prayer events. Defending the right to build this mosque saying religious freedom is for all Americans equally but didn't say anything when Franklin Graham was disinvited to speak at the Pentagon for National Day of Prayer. Past actions hold a better picture for me than all of the current rhetoric!

Cecil Turner
. . . become a place about which the terrorists and their Muslim followers boast . . .
That's the rub. Whatever the motives of the builder, this is obviously a useful propaganda and recruiting tool for our enemies. Local zoning restrictions are probably the best legal approach, but the idea that the rest of us have no say (or are restricted in options from religious tolerance to bigotry) is nonsense.
john morrissey

If anyone found an endangered two inch long green frog on the WTC site, or the burial ground of a sixteenth century Indian there would be screams from the left and 9000 lawsuits preventing any construction but 3000 murdered souls doesn t hit their button.
The left is not only stupid but heartless as well.

cathyf
Yes, I know of such cases. Why has the Greek Orthodox Church, destroyed on 9/11 not been allowed to rebuild?
Don't get too far out front on that... The deal with the Church is that the city and the feds are locating offices and garages for security staff and bunkers for a bomb squad underground underneath the church, and they are paying quite a bit of money for the privilege. Enough that they are basically paying most of the cost of the new church building. But, like any financial transaction, the sellers always want to deliver less for more money while the buyers want more for less money. What's slowing down the church construction is that they are haggling over price...
Clarice

If the Greeks were smarter they'd notify DoS they were converting en masse to Islam and they'd get enough money to complete the deal PLUS free trips around the world.

Ignatz

--Damn Iggy; you're really dating yourself (in a non-onanistic way) by those names.--

Heh. They were before my time but I have no idea what any more current ones might be named.

bgates

In most cities, including Washington, 13 stories constitute a very tall building. But in the environment of Lower Manhattan, Cordoba House will be just another structure

Oh! Then the Cordoba House wouldn't really stand out unless a bunch of other skyscrapers in Lower Manhattan were suddenly leveled somehow.

daddy the wanna' be heretic

I can't find the link but I still vaguely remember Mother Teresa, in about 1993, (right around the first time the adherents of the Religion O' Peace tried to destroy the Twin Towers), being denied permission to take an abandoned Bronx building and renovate it as a Rehab Center because it didn't have an elevator in it for the disabled.

So golly, I sure hope this Cordoba place has all the handrails and guardrails and escalators and elevators and no lead paint, and especially no residue from the asbestos dust that rained down from the ceiling as the landing gear from the 747 came roaring through the building on it's murderous crash in the name of Islam. (And that's not even to mention the extremely deadly and poisonous hydraulic fluid residue from those landing gear Hydraulic lines).

As a comparison, the EPA out here is banning 100LL (Low Lead) aviation fuel because it supposedly puts off 2 parts per million of lead into the environment in a basically uninhabited territory that is half the size of the Continental United States, and the EPA has determined that that is hazardous to humans and other living animals. Since that's their criteria, I suggest we immediately put this project on hold, and do a decades long series of studies (as least as long as those very important Oil Drilling studies in the Chukchi) to verify that the combined residue of airborne asbestos and lead paint and victims pulverized human remains and gasoline fumes, and hydraulic fluid etc in that enclosed building all total less than the equivalent 2 parts per million in an area the size of Alaska---something like .000002 parts per million combined might be equivalent. If after a decade worth of Enviro studies and Legal Challenges etc, the readings top out at combined values above that .000002 factor above, then Safety demands we stop this dangerous project immediately in the interests of Public Safety and Health. Otherwise, we're allowing something to be built that is even more dangerous than that Alaska snowman that Democratic Senator Mark Begich banned from being built in a private yard in Anchorage as a Public Safety Hazard.

Think of the children. Please.

Sara (Pal2Pal)

Exactly, John M.

Native American burial sites are federally protected. National cemeteries and battlefields, such as Gettysburg or, say, the USS Arizona memorial, are federally protected. Try building anything, let alone a mosque on those sites.

Personally, I think the WTC sites should have immediately been declared a burial site and preserved as a memorial to those who gave their lives that day by act of war against the United States. This sacred ground was not declared a protected burial site for one reason: MONEY! The dollar signs in the eyes of the NY mayor and the developers.

If those commercial airliners had been bombers or fighter jets carrying missiles, the same people ranting on about the Imam's religious freedom would be screaming about collateral damage and the deaths of thousands of civilians. Those two planes that hit the WTC buildings were used in the same capacity as a bomber or missile launching weapon. The collateral damage was extensive, destroying the building where this mosque is being proposed to be built along with thousands of lives and the destruction of blocks of buildings. Landing gear instead of bunker busters, spewing fuel instead of hellfires, but the intent and the damage on a par.

Oh wait, these were American businesses and buildings, American lives, they don't count in they eyes of lefties.

As to liking or hating Islam, I don't care enough about Islam to do either. What I do hate is an organization of psychotics operating in the name of a religion that allows for women to be mutilated, to have their nose and ears cut off, that allows women to be stoned or beaten to death, that is based on killing or enslaving all nonbelievers.

ajay

Al-Qaeda Operative Says Ground Zero Mosque “Terrible” Location for Recruitment
http://wp.me/pIP1s-5w

Danube of Thought

Al-Qaeda Operative Says Ground Zero Mosque “Terrible” Location for Recruitment

So what? Nobody's objecting to it on the grounds that it will be a recruiting site.

Sara (Pal2Pal)

Ground Zero Mosque’s Hidden Websites: Follow the Shariah

Sara (Pal2Pal)

Nobody's objecting to it on the grounds that it will be a recruiting site.

I am, as one of many reasons. The fact that al-Qaeda is denying it, is all the more reason to believe that is one of the purposes.

Sara (Pal2Pal)

Obama is such a disgusting excuse for a ________.

Obama: Property rights for Muslims but not for Jews

But if Obama is motivated by a belief in civil rights that is so strong it propels him to take on deeply unpopular causes in an election season, then one could reasonably expect that his support for civil rights would be absolute. That is, one could expect him to use the same yardstick for all groups, in all places and at all times.

But for Obama, there are some groups who must be denied the same civil rights he upholds as absolute in his defense of the plan to build a mosque at Ground Zero. As Obama has made clear since his first days in office, he believes that Jews should be denied the right to their property in Jerusalem, Judea and Samaria simply because they are Jews.

[...]

Obama IS so firm in his belief that Jews should be denied civil rights in Israel’s capital and in the heartland of Jewish history that he has provoked multiple crises in his relations with Israel to advance this bigoted view.

Almost from his first day in office Obama has struck out a radical position in which he has insisted that Jews must be prohibited from building anything – synagogues, homes, nurseries, schools – in Judea, Jerusalem and Samaria on land they own. Jews – Israeli and non-Israeli – should be barred from exercising their property rights even if their construction plans have already been approved “in accordance with local laws and ordinances.”

At the same time, Obama has insisted that Israel take no action to enforce its “local laws and ordinances” against illegal structures built by Arabs in Jerusalem, Judea, or Samaria.

Sara (Pal2Pal)

Bill Whittle Weighs In On the Ground Zero Mosque Controversy with a good treatise on moral cowardice.

And make no mistake, the BS being spouted by darwin and BB and our president our driven by moral cowardice.

Papa Giorgio

.

Very very good post. I will reference this post the next time I blog on this matter... which will probably be tomorrow morning. Here is mine for the day.

Tearing Down That Which No One Believes-The Left and the Ground Zero Mosque

.

matt

The mear fact that part of any debis landed on this building would make it a potential place too marter the ones responsable for 911.
Belive it when i tell you this location was planned and knew it would put americans of all races and religions split, we loose eather way it goes dammed if you do dammed if you dont ,its gonna make it look like were insesitive too there right too practice there faith, there is no need too create more hate and never ending pain ny and its victims go through every day .
And who is too say who is going too be used by just good muslims not all are bad but lets get real let the people who dyed that day have proper peace and closure too that horrific day the affects me daly since it happend I hope in the intrest of the ones suffering they being the political end do the right thing ,just for the record i have nothing against mulims just the radical groups that live too create fear in the name of something they call there religion its so twisted from what the coran realy potrays.


sen de

News came in last night Burlington Coat Factory is planned in a converted mosque in Buraidah, Saudi Arabia http://bit.ly/a8Vys1

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