Decline Of The Machines

Per Nate Silver, in his preliminary evaluation the Rasmussen robo-polls were miserable failures in this cycle (after respectable runs in 2004 and 2006 and an "average" result in 2008).

Rasmussen’s polls have come under heavy criticism throughout this election cycle, including from FiveThirtyEight. We have critiqued the firm for its cavalier attitude toward polling convention. Rasmussen, for instance, generally conducts all of its interviews during a single, 4-hour window; speaks with the first person it reaches on the phone rather than using a random selection process; does not call cellphones; does not call back respondents whom it misses initially; and uses a computer script rather than live interviewers to conduct its surveys. These are cost-saving measures which contribute to very low response rates and may lead to biased samples.

Rasmussen also weights their surveys based on preordained assumptions about the party identification of voters in each state, a relatively unusual practice that many polling firms consider dubious since party identification (unlike characteristics like age and gender) is often quite fluid.

A biased sample is not in itself fatal (as Nate Silver pointed out recently) - if the nature and magnitude of the bias is predictable the pollster can 'kludge' it out and correct back to the truth.

However (and I am guessing wildly here based on a sample of one, to wit, myself) the appropriate kludges may not be stable from one election to the next.  Back in 2008 I would hang up on a pollster rather than gloomily explain my likely support for McCain (yeah, I went with the Civil War veteran, not the Civil War beneficiary).  In 2010, I was delighted to tell any pollster who called that I would be voting a straight Republican ticket right down to dogcatcher and catcatcher.  And I bet there were Hope and Changers who felt the opposite way in 2008 and 2010.

How pollsters can properly adjust for that sort of psychology is no doubt a part of what makes their job so fascinating.

Comments

[Army of Davids]

There needs to be a Civil War in K-12 education.

Teachers unions.

"Waiting for Superman"

The documentary will break your heart.

[Danube of Thought]

My favorites were those Newsweek polls about a week before the election. Somebody's gotta look into that...

[Threadkiller]

In California it is very simple, they only need to poll L.A., San Francisco, and Alameda Counties.

[Janet]

A link at Instapundit asks a great question - “Which is in worse shape, the state of the American economy or the state of American punditry?”

I read so many talented people here at JOM & around the internet, that I find it impossible to listen to the same old blow hards on TV anymore...or read them in the press.

[Danube of Thought]

I hope some enterprising JOMer will go back and collect some of the "realignment" punditry from two years ago. Excellent gloat-s-thon material.

[Rob Crawford]

I dunno, Janet. Some of the folks around the 'net can be just as big blowhards as the blow-dried ones on TV. Reading Powerline this morning, I see call on the Republican party to not be too aggressive in challenging write-in ballots, lest they accidentally anger the "Republican" Murcowski.

Of course, she didn't run as a Republican. She was rejected by the party members in Alaska, and then ran on a straight ego-and-pork platform that should be antithetical to the Republican party.

(And I fully expect her to caucus with the Democrats.)

[narciso]

I haven't read Powerline, on purpose in a long while, their kavelling over Christine was certainly Frumworthy

[Jack is Back!]

In Jacksonville, the Duval County Soil Conservation District board voted to "go out of business" but not before the candidates for board went on the ballot. So, they results were a statistical tie between two candidates. It would cost $100k and 70 people to do the recount for a position on a defunct board. Luckily, one of the candidates dropped out so the one who won can drink the last glass of champagne when the board retires. In Flagler County we have a number of Mosquito Control Districts where the Supervisor gets a pickup truck and $60K a year to "manage" the 3 guys who do all the work. I have asked New Jersey if we can borrow Chris Christie for a day.

[Porchlight]

I expect all these tight contested races to tip to the Dem, thanks to "found" ballots and the like. Except AK will likely tip to Murky which is nearly the same thing. It is very depressing.

But, we managed to pull off a whole bunch of not-close ones. And the Kirk win frankly amazes me.

[Janet]

That is Paul over at Powerline. I really think his communist surroundings in Montgomery County MD are influencing him.
Powerline was the first blog I read every day when I first came on-line....so I've got a soft spot for it.

[Texas Mom 2010]

I am not sure that current methods of polling can capture the electorate. They would better off polling the exact same sample of people each time so they could monitor changes in attitudes. I think that would give a better glimpse of the delta shifts among voters. Much more accurate forecast model if you can actually capture the change among specific voters. In today's world of caller ID and cell phones I think this may be the only way to calculate change in voter patterns during election cycles.

[Porchlight]

I don't read Powerline any more because of Mirengoff.

[narciso]

Just to remind people of the mindset we are up against, in the LUN

[Kurt]

Because of Caller ID, I stopped answering the phone for any numbers I didn't recognize; some could have been pollsters, some were calls (mostly robo-calls) on behalf of candidates or parties. I know I'm not the only one to adopt such a strategy.

[Janet]

Thanks for the link narciso. Verum Serum is great.

[centralcal]

I, too, don't read Powerline as often as I used to. I wonder if they are aware of the loss of readership?

Kurt: I too have caller ID and like you I don't answer if I don't know who it is - quite a few are 800-type numbers. Does anyone know if the big name pollsters identify themselves or just show a number?

[hit and run]

Kurt:
Because of Caller ID, I stopped answering the phone for any numbers I didn't recognize; some could have been pollsters

At least when Ras calls,it's identified as Ras.......

I nearly jumped out of my skin to get to that call.

But the act of punching '4' for "Strongly Disapprove" just doesn't carry the same cathartic release as yelling it to a person. No matter how demonstrably fierce your punching is.

[Chubby]

Narcisco, the words of Elisha come to mind:

"They that be with us are more than they that be with them" (2 Kgs. 6:16)

[Jack is Back!]

narciso,

Are those the faint lines of tattoo's on her cleavage and hands? Tattoo's are one the things you do in your 20's that you end up regretting in your 40's. It looks like she has tried to erase hers.

Anyway thanks for sharing with us some of the reasons this President is to be "restrained" more than ever.

[Chubby]

((I, too, don't read Powerline as often as I used to. I wonder if they are aware of the loss of readership?))

During the Bush vs Kerry election I practically lived on Powerline ... I never go there any more; I lost interest when they changed their format, adding the forum and so on; it seemed too institutional or something. It just didn't appeal like the earlier pure blog format.

[narciso]

I didn't really notice that, JiB, there was a touch of catharsis, in the latest Stephen Hunter novel about those two, even though in the end, he had to pull a McGuffin

[matt]

last night I took my daughter out for sushi. Upon leaving, there is a traffic light where a lot of the customers make a "U" turn to get on a more convenient street. The light has 2 turning lanes, and it's tight, so most users line up in the right hand of the two lanes to negotiate the turn without a 3 point turn, which is illegal.It is also a very lightly trafficked light at night.

So I sat behind two morons who insisted on doing it the wrong way, timing out the signal each time. Sure enough, they both had "thank a teacher" stickers on the bumpers. Enough said.

As to Rasmussen, I would think the election results confirm their polling data. A lack of common sense and reality denial seem to be perquisites for being a Democrat these days.

[MaryD]

Re Powerline: I look for Scott's posts -- IMO he is by far the best of the three of them. I read some of John's and skip Paul's -- he's just too "Ruling Class" for me to stomach.

[Thomas Collins]

TM, where's the inside scoop post on the Connecticut gubernatorial election? This one seems to be clearly a stolen election, with a new bag of ballots suddenly appearing and Bridgeport totals held in abeyance until the Dems knew how many votes they needed to win (I especially enjoyed the photocopying of the official ballots; can't the fraudsters at least have the decency to pre-vote official ballots and stuff them into the ballot boxes?).

[Kurt]

I used to check Powerline regularly, but I, too, stopped after the format switch. I didn't have any complaints about the content, but it always caused problems with my browser, so unless someone linked to an item there, I wasn't going to bother with it. Needless to say, I was a bit surprised to read about some of their latest pronouncements, as I don't follow it regularly anymore.

[jimmyk]

Another ex-powerline reader here. I stopped years ago, because I found it kind of staid, dull, overly earnest, humorless. All the things that JOM is not. But I don't go to the other extreme and read AoS or Atlas Shrugged either.

[Rick Ballard]

TC,

You got a problem with the northeast firewall, buddy? You need we send someone to come by and explain it to you?

Considering the outcome in New Hampshire and Maine, it appears that progressive simpletons are becoming ever more concentrated. I have some sympathy for conservatives living in Massachusetts, Connecticut, Vermont and the intellectual dead zone surrounding NYC but United Van Lines does offer a solution.

[Dave (in MA)]

Tattoos, or merely shadows on granny cleavage?

[matt]

massive right wing, armed protests according to Ms. Dorhn..blood in the streets....state terrorism by Amerikkka....they really haven't progressed beyond the 60's.

[Dave (in MA)]

http://www.boston.com/business/articles/2010/11/05/obama_welcomes_news_ideas_on_firing_up_economy/?p1=News_links>Any ideas? Hell, I can't think of anything. Except for undoing everything he's done since 1/20/09, but aside from that.

[NK]

Rick--

Fire walls? Connecticut/NYC conservative here. I don't get frustrated, I just keep going. It's bad for business but it is fascinating to watch the Dems fall back into their "Castle Keep" of Calif/NYS/CT/Mass/Md/Cook County. They have nothing else left, so out of sheer desparation they pull scams like the Bridgeport City Hall ballots. Pathetic, but so predictable. People here are smart and hard working, even the libs (the majority) they'll catch on. Some have started.

[Abadman]

Sorry, I still read Powerline and I also read AoS in addition to JOM. These three cover a pretty wide swath of conservative thought or provide links to other conservative sites, and liberal as well. I start and end here though. I do not always agree with what is said but the breadth and depth of knowledge displayed is amazing.

On an somewhat related topic, I do not think President Obama is an idiot, he is just not smart enough to understand how much he doesn't know.

[Walter Mayhew]

Nate's hardon for Rasmussen is a dodge to distract people from his own terrible performance. Long after the wave was detected by everyone else, Silver only grudgingly began upping his predictions in the last week before the election. Still, on election eve, he topped at 54-55, with the weaselly "more or less are possible" escape clause. He is going to end up being off by about 20%.

Physician, heal thyself.

[Thomas Collins]

Yeah, Rick, I know I shouldn't complain, except that the Bridgeport folks should have experience in making out official ballots beforehand, and then slipping them in when they figured out how many Dem votes they needed. Photocopies and suddenly appearing bags show less class.

[Danube of Thought]

Take a look at the clip of W's Oprah interview over at Hot Air. The man was born and bred a gentleman.

[sbw]

Mel Brooks was right -- dastardliness can only be deflated by laughing at it.

Were he alive, he certainly would endorse exposing Frumworthy Dowdification.

Let's hear it for adding Frumworthy to the lexicon.

[NK]

Hey TC--

just keep on trying to stamp out Fairfield County ignorance. With Nancy the Zombie announcing she is running for Minority Leader that moron Himes will have to choose sides. If he goes with Nancy/BHO, he really is a dead man in 2012. If he switches Repub, he'll lose a primary in 2012. Poor boy.

[Jack is Back!]

DoT,

An Officer and A Gentleman - runs in the genes - from eastern establishment elitists, the Bush's ended up in Texas where they had both the hat and horse. No matter what you think of his performance in office (I backed him to the hilt on security issues but not his fiscal policy) he was and continues to be a class act unless the bafoon we currently have. Never once since Obama's election has W said one negative word about him while all along being on the receiving end of the most vitriolic mean-spirited blame game ever foisted on an ex-POTUS. Can't wait to read the book.

[Danube of Thought]

Lovely tidings:

"Nancy Pelosi, who will lose her job as Speaker of the House in January in the wake of the Republican victory in the mid-term elections, says she will run for minority leader post in the next Congress."

[jimmyk]

Were he alive...

If it's Mel Brooks you're referring to, he's still alive.

[Jack is Back!]

Grrr! ::unless:: = ::unlike::

sbw,

Steve, its time to update your blog:) The times are a'changin

[sbw]

Jimmyk, you're right. Sorry. Mel's wife died,... the beautiful Ann Bancroft.

In a gesture of remorse, go see The Producers as soon as you can.

[sbw]

Jib, my blog is woefully behind because I spend so much time here. ;-)

[sbw]

Jib, I made a new entry on my semi-idle blog that is worth thinking about.

We are approaching the 100th anniversary of Virginia Woolf's literary declaration that on or about December 10, 1910, human character changed. . .

Did it? LUN.

[Rob Crawford]

That is Paul over at Powerline. I really think his communist surroundings in Montgomery County MD are influencing him.

Ah. The "conservative cringe" -- a mental condition inflicting people who live in primarily left-wing areas.

[Dave (in MA)]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/11/05/keith-olbermann-suspended_n_779586.html>The Zsa-Zsa Post reports that Olby is suspended.

Indefinitely.

WITHOUT pay.

S
W
E
E
T

[Rob Crawford]

sbw -- if human character changed in 1910, why can I see recognizable personalities, desires, and actions in histories and fiction stretching back thousands of years?

[Jane (sit on the couch or save your country)]

If they keep him out til Comcast takes over I suspect we will never have to see him again.

So who did Chris Matthews donate to?

[Charlie (Colorado)]

Dammit, Dave beat me to it.

[Porchlight]

Could this week get any better?

[Dave (in MA)]

They announced that write-ins for Miller will count as votes.

[Boatbuilder]

Unfortunately, we CT conservatives knew the election was in the bag even before we saw the bag.

[mockmook]

Sorry sbw,

Too busy here to read that ;)

[Charlie (Colorado)]

What's the odds of Hoyer beating Pelosi in the leadership election.

I'd give 3-1.

[East Bay Jay]

"I do not think President Obama is an idiot, he is just not smart enough to understand how much he doesn't know"

In my book, that qualifies as American Idiot #1. Confidence without competence.

To be fair to Obama, if I had the upper crust of the political elite blowing smoke up my skirt for four years I'd think I was pretty smart too. So in that sense Obama's a victim too........but COME ON, he's not even trying. He reads blogs and watches TV, yet he's unfamiliar with the rightie news media (except of the 'everybody knows' variety i.e. everybody knows Rush is a racist). I make a bigger effort to get the other side's POV and I'm not paid for it, he is.

[not_bubarooni]

darn that Dave.

i wanted to finally be able to contribute something here!

[Boatbuilder]

What is the purpose of the policy they suspended Olby for violating? Are they concerned that his contributions might reveal his political leanings? He's an idiot and a fool, but I think this is Juan Williams/NPR all over again.

[narciso]

Of course, it's a fig leaf, just with Rick Sanchez's last statement

[Captain Hate]

BB, I think his new Comcast overlords are just using this as a convenient excuse to dump somebody with a salary completely out of whack with his pathetic ratings. I don't anybody is surprised by that fool's political leanings since he makes them as obvious as his insecurity about his education. He'd already gotten rid of his "worst person in the world" so I think that was step 1 in Comcast's plan to be rid of him and a signal that his days were numbered.

[Porchlight]

Unfortunately, we CT conservatives knew the election was in the bag even before we saw the bag.

Yeah, it was pretty predictable.

Never liked Bridgeport. Never, ever.

[matt]

NBC has ethics rules? Who woulda thunk? we can still gloat....Chrissy's tingle is gone. Rachel's going to simply melt down....

Now if we can get O'Reilly and Hannity to stop blowing hard, perhaps we can a safe and sane cable news environment.

[Clarice]

If you were MSNBC's lawyer an they were looking for a sure fire way to can this loco without fearing suit for contract damages, you could not do better than have him break a clear employment rule like this one.

Way to go Keith--you win Dumbest Person of the Year/

[Dave (in MA)]

Chrissy's tingle is gone.

Once he gulps down some more Cialis and he and Olby haul a couple of bathtubs up the hill, I'm sure he'll be able to get that funny Obama feeling in his pants again.

[sbw]

Rob: "if human character changed in 1910, why can I see recognizable personalities, desires, and actions in histories and fiction stretching back thousands of years?"

It didn't change. Woolf wished that it had. It needs to change to make more acessible all the things hinted in the last graf.

What you recognize stretching back thousands of years is what we want to learn to recognize and manage better, lest we have to repeat our mistakes for the next thousand years.

[NK]

Boatbuilder-- very true about Ct.; day before the election I told a young partner who is a staunch rightwinger that in Cong Dist #4, Bridgeport ballots would show up as needed to decide things. Voila.

Charlie-- no way Hoyer beats Pelosi, he won't even run. watch the Borens and Schulers say this is too much for my constituents to bear, I'm switchin.

[JM Hanes]

DoT:

This April 2009 gem from Stuart Rothenberg is making the rounds:

Cheerleading has its place, including on a high school or college basketball court. But not when it comes to political analysis.

Over the past couple of weeks, at least three Republicans — House Minority Whip Eric Cantor (Va.), former Speaker Newt Gingrich (Ga.) and campaign consultant Tony Marsh — have raised the possibility of the GOP winning back the House of Representatives next year.

That idea is lunacy and ought to be put to rest immediately.

None of the three actually predicted that Republicans would gain the 40 seats that they need for a majority, but all three held out hope that that’s possible. It isn’t. ...

Yes, Republicans have plenty of opportunities in good districts following their loss of 53 House seats over the past two cycles. And yes, there are signs that the Republican hemorrhage has stopped and even possibly that the party’s fortunes have begun to reverse course.

But there are no signs of a dramatic rebound for the party, and the chance of Republicans winning control of either chamber in the 2010 midterm elections is zero. Not “close to zero.” Not “slight” or “small.” Zero.

Hard to top that prediction, although it can probably be done.

[NK]

Captain-- saw your reference to Olbermann's education. Didn't know what you meant so I looked it up. Two types of people go to Cornell Aggie-- (1)real aggies and aspiring Vets because it is a brlliant aggie school and (2) morons who want to use bogus means to get a Cornell diploma. No need to discuss which category Olbermann falls into.

[Jim Ryan]

Plus, MSLSD wanted to fit The Alan Grayson Show into the schedule. Tonight! Alan's got Garofalo!

[bgates]

if I had the upper crust of the political elite blowing smoke up my skirt for four years I'd think I was pretty smart too

I'd be nervous if Lindsey Graham, Jon Stewart, Peggy Noonan, and Tim Geithner so much as regarded me neutrally. If they revered me, I'd fear for my sanity.

[centralcal]

Hhhhmmmm - will they bring back David Schuster to fill in for the Dobermann while he sits out "indefinitely?"

Just kidding. ;)

[Boatbuilder]

If I were Olby's lawyer I would do discovery to find instances where other NBC talent and execs made political contributions without first getting permission, and make some easy money.

[Dave (in MA)]

JMH, my favorite paragraph wasn't excerpted:

Of course, there are millions of Americans who are unhappy with Obama’s agenda and with the direction of the country. But those people have never liked Obama, and more importantly, they don’t come close to constituting a majority of Americans.

.

As either Miss Cleo or Bunny (I can't tell them apart) said the other day, BWAAAAAAAAAh!

[Stephanie]

Olbermann, as well as MSNBC executives, was a vocal critic of the $1 million donation by Fox News' parent News Corp. to the Republican Governor's Association earlier this year, saying at the time, "We now have another million reasons Fox News is the Republican news channel."

In a subsequent show, Olbermann also pressed House Majority Whip James Clyburn if there was a "legislative response" to a networks that "starts to shill for partisan causes."

LUN

[Uncle BigBad]

Interesting commentary about Powerline. And I thought I was the only one who noticed.

I think Paul may be somewhat like Charles Johnson--a liberal trapped in a conservative blog.

[Jane (sit on the couch or save your country)]

This April 2009 gem from Stuart Rothenberg is making the rounds:

That was 11 days before the first tea party.

[Jane (sit on the couch or save your country)]

Wrong date - it was 2 weeks after. I suspect the writer was too busy calling us "tea baggers" to sharpen his pencil, or his wit.

[Clarice]

JMH, the best part of that is this--Rothenberg will still get paid to do what he does and will continue to be cited for his expert opinion.

[NK]

Charlie-- on cue from WAPO, Hoyer won't run:

"Many Democrats had hoped Pelosi – a central figure in the Republican campaigns that led to the ouster of more than 60 Democrats and returned the House to GOP control – would step aside and let Majority Leader Steny H. Hoyer (D-Md.) become minority leader.
Hoyer, who has support from the party’s diminished moderate-to-conservative ranks, has announced that he would not challenge Pelosi. Some Democrats suspect he may leave leadership altogether, setting up an even more liberal leadership team than House Democrats had the previous four years."

Let's see how many of the DEM Lemmings start trying to claw pack up the cliff by switching parties.

[Rick Ballard]

NK,

You have a good point regarding some Dems acquiring a strange new respect for the GOP but the switch will occur in about six months - probably after a really stupid episode of the Three Stooges in Beyond the Precipice.

The Man with the Tan really doesn't need a bigger majority at the moment so the Dems who would like to flee are in a poor bargaining position. They'll stay put for now. They know that the Three Stooges can be counted on to provide them with reasonable cause to flee every week or so.

[Danube of Thought]

Great find, JMH. I sure hope it's been repeatedly and forcefully brought to Rothenberg's attention.

[Jim Ryan]

... since 2010. Therefore, while MSLSD regrets that it will have to suspend Mr. Grayson, his contribution to CPUSA candidates exceeded the limits of company ethical standards....

Tonight! Janeane's got the two New Black Panther dudes!

... since 2012. Therefore, while MSLSD regrets that it will have to suspend Ms. Garofalo, her contribution to Black Panther Unity candidates exceeded the limits of company ethical standards....

Tonight! Bernadine's got American Taliban Johnny Lindh!

[Captain Hate]

NK, far be it from me to criticize anybody's education unless they're being an absolute hypocrite by bringing it up. The incident I was referring to was Ann Coulter once mentioning Keefums falling into category 2 and Bathtub Boy becoming apoplectic, rather than laughing it off like a normal person would, to the point of hilariously bringing his diploma onto his next show to point out his academic bona fides. And providing an unmistakable view under the microscope of his severe insecurities.

Btw, Tammy Bruce is slamming the White House for being so secretive regarding the cost of Bammy's excellent Indian adventure to the point that the Indian media is the only source of the cost of it. Maybe MessNBC's self-proclaimed heir of Edward R. Murrow can get to the bottom of this in his recently freed up time.

[Captain Hate]

Jim Ryan, people rarely seem to comment on them but I find your posts in the 2:52 spirit hilarious.

[Threadkiller]

--"Take a look at the clip of W's Oprah interview over at Hot Air. The man was natural born and bred a gentleman.

[Melinda Romanoff]

Oh, look!

Citigroup is getting sued by Schwab over bad MBS certificates.

[cathyf]

They announced that write-ins for Miller will count as votes.

Votes for Miller or votes for Leeza?

[Jim Ryan]

CH, ha! It takes all kinds, don't it.

[Lord Whorfin says-vote early and vote often.]

OT- Did Rahm win his mayor race??

[JM Hanes]

I only wish I'd had 2 years before my own Pelosi prediction came back to haunt me, instead of 20 minutes.

[Jim Ryan]

There's a lot of teh funny comments here.

[NK]

Rick--

It's impossible to predict what Dems will do; they don't deal in logic, that's why they are Dems. There are 20-40 Dems in close districts who just barely hung on. many will have redistricting problems that will make their next run worse. The Repubs don't need them now as they have a stable conservative majority. But those Dems CAN'T vote for Nancy the Zombie. The need a Blue Dog to stand up and challenge her who they can vote for. Who will-- Boren? Schuler? These Dems are in a tough spot, and their leverage drops as time goes by. Do 10-20 just make a deal to switch and lose all seniority so the are Repub Frosh? This bears watching.

[NK]

PS: Repubs need about 40-45 switches to get override power. Far fetched, but bears watching.

[Rob Crawford]

Tonight! Alan's got Garofalo!

A little penicillin will clear that right up.

[daddy]

Breaking News:

">http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1325894/Jesus-AIDS-South-African-Pastor-Xola-Skosana-sparks-outrage-virus-claim.html"> 'Jesus was HIV-positive'.

[Melinda Romanoff]

Lord-

The more formal act of actually voting Rahm in as Mayor will occur early next year in the primary. I expect recent announced candidates to rethink their positions.

[caro]

((The Man with the Tan really doesn't need a bigger majority at the moment so the Dems who would like to flee are in a poor bargaining position.))

Great point,Rick.

I obviously lost my html toolbar with the last Firefox upgrade. Where is Janet the Luddite?

[Lord Whorfin says-vote early and vote often.]

Thanks Melinda.

[NK]

Melinda-- I've said you were probably off base on the MERS stuff, and I still believe that. But the Scwabb lawsuit is the first of many in the MBS game of Liar's Poker. As Gorgeous George said to Tommie in "Snatch"-- "OOOOOH This Will Get Messy" So many sloppy practce rocks will get turned over in these lawsuits, and at the end of the day all the bank execs and their lawyers will say-- NOBODY cared Fannie/Freddie were buying all the mortgages so there was no risk to the bondholders. AND THEN MAYBE somebody will indict Frank Raines and Jamie Gorelnick.

[daddy]

Don't know what to make of this but FOX is reporting on TV that Al Queda is saying that the UPS 747 that crashed in Dubai in September was brought down by one of their explosives.

Early reports were that it was Lithium batteries in a cargo compartment below the right wing. I have no more info than that. Just passing this on.

[centralcal]

caro: I think this is the link for Firefox Text Formatting Toolbar.