Deliberators Deliberate

John McCain wants the world's greatest deliberative body to actually talk about the Pentagon report on Don't Ask, Don't Tell before lifting the ban on gay troops.  That is not unreasonable unless his real goal is to talk this to death.  I am going to excerpt Ann Althouse, then close with my own hopeful profundity:

McCain seems to be gearing up to say it wasn't the right kind of study. I can understand thinking the study group was result-oriented in its research and that the lame duck Congress doesn't have the moral authority to make this decision, but it's sad to see McCain making this issue his legacy.

It is possible this is genius at work.  If the repeal is not harmful, as this new study is being spun to suggest, McCain specifically and Republicans generally will get more credit (or at least, deny Obama some credit) if the repeal occurs after Republicans take over the House and Senate. 

Of course, that also means the House has to pass a new bill.  If House Republicans are ambivalent or opposed to this repeal, they might prefer to see the lame duck Senate take this chalice from them.

Or, the Republican Party may just be determined to stand on the wrong side of history and prevent repeal altogether.

Comments

[matt]

There was a very large survey sent out to most major commands earlier this year on DADT. The results have never been made public.

A friend at Brigade level in the Army said at least in his unit, the results were overwhelmingly against repeal.

[Thomas Collins]

See LUN for what I think is a top notch analysis of the politics of DADT. The issue of gays in the military should be approached from the point of view of what policy is best in light of the military's mission, not what is best in light of pushing someone's civilian social justice agenda. In the LUNed article it is stated that:

"The military cannot be used for someone's perceived political justice. The military does not operate that way. In fact, is the exact opposite of political justice. If it weren't, the military would be a complete failure. Everything the military tries to accomplish in times of war, goes head to head with political justice."

Also from the LUNed article:

"This is not about gays in the military. Never has been. Gays have served in the military. Admirably. Anyone who has served, knows this. But we kept our mouths shut 99% of the time. It was a non issue. People kept to themselves, did their jobs, and moved on."

It's high time politicians adandoned their sniveling discourse on this issue and focus on what is best for the military's mission of protecting us. Is it too obvious for politicans to recognize that when the military functions effectively, gays, straigths, females, males, gender Zs, trannies, bis, those who are promiscuous, those who are celibate and those who are "self-starters" all benefit?

[MayBee]

When the survey was first sent out, anti-DADT activists tried to get it thrown out because it was discriminatory. Because it asked about feelings about gay people.
Now that they like the results, they are apparently leaking it for their own benefit.

I'm for the repeal of DADT, but I find their tactics to be childish and tiresome.

[Dave (in MA)]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oqJ2jYumJJo> src="http://i3.ytimg.com/vi/r5KeGccP9Jk/default.jpg">.

[Danube of Thought]

Gosh, I sure wouldn't ever want to be caught on the "wrong side of history.". Quick somebody tell me where the right side is so I can scurry on over there.

[Dave (in MA)]

childish

Heh. Sorry.

[NK]

I'm with DOT on this and against TM.

The Ban on open homsexual identitfication in the armed services IS the right side of history. It is the recognition of obvious realities of human sexuality, barely post-adolescent sensibilities and preserving the one thing the federal Government does well-- manage the armed services. The wrong side of history is caving to the current fad of Gay being the new black. That fad/fetish will fade like Stokely Carmichael, Disco and mood rings.

[Porchlight]

Or, the Republican Party may just be determined to stand on the wrong side of history and prevent repeal altogether.

I didn't realize the science was settled on this one, TM.

[MarkO]

Of course, "history" is entirely different from the past. It is an acount of some small portion of events based on the sorts of evidence that could never make the stand in any courtroom.

The "wrong side of history" is just the prevailing attitude dressed up to look respectable. For, example, for about a thousand years, Ptolemy was on the "right" side of history. Not to mention George Washington's slaves.

As if someone could devine the right side of history.

[MarkO]

That would be Andy Devine.

[sbw]

There will be no talk of Andy Devine asking froggie to pluck his magic twanger.

[Danube of Thought]

I remember about thirty years ago one of the father-son team of crooked Connecticut senators declared that, by opposing some Marxist putsch or other in Latin America, we were opposing the "forces of history.' Don't know how many divisions History had in that one, but it wasn't enough.

[Thomas Collins]

The wrong side of history is credentialled morons pushing pet social theories at the expense of what is best for a fearsome fighting force.

If the best military is made up of Andrew Sullivans flaunting it, I want Andrew Sullivans flaunting it in the ships, in the air and in the trenches. If the best military is one in which gays serve discreetly, that's what I want. And before Congress and POTUS put into effect any changes in DADT, I want them to consider carefully the view of a wide variety of military folks.

[Charlie (Colorado)]

The Ban on open homsexual identitfication in the armed services IS the right side of history

Which is why every military since the dawn of time, including Rome, the Macedonians under Alexander, the Spartans, and (more recently) most all of Europe have been completely ineffective and collapsed under their first challenge.

[Charlie (Colorado)]

There will be no talk of Andy Devine asking froggie to pluck his magic twanger.

Self-refuting.

[bjb]

I hope the Pentagon, when designing the study, took care to analyze recruitment issues. With an all-volunteer force it will do no good, and in fact harm, if the repeal of DADT leads to 10k more gays to sign up, while 25k "bigots" who otherwise would have signed up now would elect not to do so.

[Rob Crawford]

(more recently) most all of Europe have been completely ineffective and collapsed under their first challenge.

Not the best example to pick.

[Janet the tea-vangelist!]

Exactly bjb.

and how sad is this paragraph?

It is possible this is genius at work. If the repeal is not harmful, as this new study is being spun to suggest, McCain specifically and Republicans generally will get more credit (or at least, deny Obama some credit) if the repeal occurs after Republicans take over the House and Senate.

IF the repeal is not harmful????
Political parties getting credit???

These sorry wishy-washy people we have as "leaders" ruin everything they touch.
How about this....EVERYONE is subject to DADT. The military doesn't want to know one d*#n thing about anybodies sex life. Our military is about protecting America & killing the bad guys. Want to focus on sex?...go to a brothel.

[Janet the tea-vangelist!]

Exactly bjb.

and how sad is this paragraph?

It is possible this is genius at work. If the repeal is not harmful, as this new study is being spun to suggest, McCain specifically and Republicans generally will get more credit (or at least, deny Obama some credit) if the repeal occurs after Republicans take over the House and Senate.

IF the repeal is not harmful????
Political parties getting credit???

These sorry wishy-washy people we have as "leaders" ruin everything they touch.
How about this....EVERYONE is subject to DADT. The military doesn't want to know one d*#n thing about anybodies sex life. Our military is about protecting America & killing the bad guys. Want to focus on sex?...go to a brothel.

[Janet the tea-vangelist!]

Exactly bjb.

and how sad is this paragraph?

It is possible this is genius at work. If the repeal is not harmful, as this new study is being spun to suggest, McCain specifically and Republicans generally will get more credit (or at least, deny Obama some credit) if the repeal occurs after Republicans take over the House and Senate.

IF the repeal is not harmful????
Political parties getting credit???

These sorry wishy-washy people we have as "leaders" ruin everything they touch.
How about this....EVERYONE is subject to DADT. The military doesn't want to know one d*#n thing about anybodies sex life. Our military is about protecting America & killing the bad guys. Want to focus on sex?...go to a brothel.

[Janet the tea-vangelist!]

Exactly bjb.

and how sad is this paragraph?

It is possible this is genius at work. If the repeal is not harmful, as this new study is being spun to suggest, McCain specifically and Republicans generally will get more credit (or at least, deny Obama some credit) if the repeal occurs after Republicans take over the House and Senate.

IF the repeal is not harmful????
Political parties getting credit???

These sorry wishy-washy people we have as "leaders" ruin everything they touch.
How about this....EVERYONE is subject to DADT. The military doesn't want to know one d*#n thing about anybodies sex life. Our military is about protecting America & killing the bad guys. Want to focus on sex?...go to a brothel.

[Janet the tea-vangelist!]

Exactly bjb.

and how sad is this paragraph?

It is possible this is genius at work. If the repeal is not harmful, as this new study is being spun to suggest, McCain specifically and Republicans generally will get more credit (or at least, deny Obama some credit) if the repeal occurs after Republicans take over the House and Senate.

IF the repeal is not harmful????
Political parties getting credit???

These sorry wishy-washy people we have as "leaders" ruin everything they touch.
How about this....EVERYONE is subject to DADT. The military doesn't want to know one d*#n thing about anybodies sex life. Our military is about protecting America & killing the bad guys. Want to focus on sex?...go to a brothel.

[Janet the tea-vangelist!]

I am so sorry!! I don't know how I even did that. 5 times...how embarrassing.

[Captain Hate]

Or, the Republican Party may just be determined to stand on the wrong side of history and prevent repeal altogether.

What history would that be? History of the world-wide Caliphate?

[narciso]

You can sat that again, Janet, lol, is this even the 50th most significant thing, the Armed Services have to deal with

[Thomas Collins]

CHACO, don't you think there might be different factors affecting whether different militaries function well under different sexual preference regimes? For example, don't you think that a Spartan military member's upbringing might affect how Sparta's military functioned under the Spartan military regime (especially in light of the fact that martial strength and bravery was, if one is to give Plutarch credence, an essential element of a Spartan's education)? In fact, would a Spartan even think of the military rules as relating at all to sexual preference?

If we are going to go down the road of examining military success under various rules, wouldn't we have to take into account the success of the American military under DADT and pre-DADT regimes?

[Ann]

Janet:

I agree with everything you said 5 times! It seems the typepad gods are with you too. :)

[daddy]

Thats the QUINTessence of the issue Janet:)

Well stated, stated, stated, stated, stated:)

[Ann]

Janet:

Don't miss this feel good video today:

Wow! HUNDREDS OF RIDERS WITH US FLAGS Escort Cody Alicea to School Today (Video)

God Bless America

[Ralph L]

And what happened to Sparta's army? They were too busy boinking each other to reproduce.

I would think open gays are a much bigger issue with the all male units. The mixed-sex ones are used to suppressing sexual tension to avoid sexual harrassment charges. Plus, they're all REMFs anyway.

[Janet the tea-vangelist!]

Great video Ann!
Hahhahaha...Well stated, stated, stated, stated, stated:)..Too funny.

[Dave (in MA)]

Ann, that's heartwarming, thanks!
It looks as though a couple of the riders are also flying the Gadsden.

[daddy]

I thought the discussion of Sparta and her armies in Lee Harris's ">http://www.amazon.com/Civilization-Its-Enemies-Stage-History/dp/0743257499/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top"> Civilization and its Enemies was brilliant.

[Ann]

13 -year old Cody Alicea was brought to tears by all those who came out to support him.

More pics here: Many Rally To Support Boy's Flag Display LIVE

[glasater]

Ann-
I got choked up right along with Cody when I watched your video link.

And daddy-
"Civilization and its Enemies" is one terrific book. Really enjoy your reading list.

[Clarice]

Gee, Ann..Have a kleenex to go with that?

[Porchlight]

Aww..those are such great pics and video. Thank you. What a terrific kid.

[rse]

Finally spoke to the pvt today and that's just what I needed.

Thanks Ann.

Sniffle.

[centralcal]

Fabulous news, Ann - I haven't seen the video yet, but the still photo of Cody crying was enough for me to tear up.

[WhiskeyJim]

The discussion on repeal of DADT is off kilter and mostly irrelevant. The main issue is not prejudice, I do not believe.

It is a political issue. It is a legal issue. It will turn all the gays in the military into a minority class.

Just think of the Sergeant in training exercises. "Hey you pussy. Get a move on."

Oops. Legal action! "He called me a pussy because I am gay." Substitute any word for pussy; it does not matter. The cohesion exercises groups go through so they can trust each other and kill and die together will need to change drastically.

Some of you will argue that is a good thing, and the thousands of law suits are worth it. Ok. But I believe that is the heart of the discussion.

Because in the end, they are the guys on the wall.

[larry]

Posted by: Dave (in MA) at 01:46 PM Dave, Nabors was active in USO. I got his autograph for my kids, who loved Gomer Pyle, after a Bob Hope show. He stayed and chatted until all the chat was done. This was '70 or '71, so I can't remember if he was out. Nice guy.

There will be no talk of Andy Devine asking froggie to pluck his magic twanger.
Posted by: sbw at 02:18 PM My recollection was Buster Brown and it was twank v. pluck.

[Uncle BigBad]

Put me down on the "wrong side of history."