"Just"? Where Is The Justice?

MSNBC has a risible headline:

Just 32% of Tea Party candidates win

Really?  How many Perot Party candidates won in 1992 or 1996?  I will guess roughly zero.  (And yes, my utter inability to remember their actual party name is surely a sign of something other than early onset Alzheimers).

I have n idea what the correct baseline would be for assessing Tea party success.  Offhand, it is obvious that a couple of the Senate choices (Angle, O'Donnell) probably underpeformed more mainstream alternatives.  On the other hand, Toomey, Rubio and Johnson are well regarded in states that could go either way (Lee in Utah and Rand in Kentucky are fine, but any plausible Republican would have won there in 2010).

In the House, MSNBC scores 40 victories and 82 defeats for the Tea Party.  One presumes that many of these were challenging incumbents, and I see a lot of Tea Party losses in some non-Red states such as California, NY, Massachusetts and Illinois.  These may (or may not!) be districts where any Republican would have been an underdog and good, well-financed recruits were hard to find.

With the MSNBC list or some other guide to hand, I imagine someone will want to match Tea Prty wins and losses with the history of the districts to see how many of these candidates turned likely victory into actual defeat versus the number that lost a district Republicans were likely to lose anyway.

Comments

[Relativist]

Just 32% of Obama's policy platform has been enacted!

[Captain Hate]

MessNBC: Providing employment to the mentally disabled.

[steve]

How about these headlines*: "JUST 33% of Democrat Senate candidates win"... or JUST 44% of Democrat House candidates win"?

Given all the money the Democrats had and the power of incumbency, a 32% win rate for the Tea Party candidates looks pretty good... something along the lines of the heavy spending Yankees and Red Sox losing the pennant to the much lower spending Rangers... which team got the most bang for the buck?

* based on the web sites I'm looking at.

[Charlie (Colorado)]

There's another issue here: the Tea Partiers didn't have specific candidates in most Republican House primaries; a very large proportion of GOP House members were already on board. The tea party's enthusiasm made up a hell of a lot of the enthusiasm gap.

What would the proportion be if we included all R candidates that didn't have a "tea party" opponent in the primaries?

[James Joyner]

Tom,

I'm no fan of the Tea Party, or rather its most visible leadership, but concur with this analysis. Counting House wins and losses with zero context is either venal or stupid.

[Dave (in MA)]

Speaking of "Justice", the Boston Globe has a headline on their web site: http://www.boston.com/news/local/breaking_news/2010/11/patrick_to_unve.html>"Patrick nominates first African-American chief justice of SJC".

Gov. Paul Cellucci nominated Margaret Marshall the first African-American Chief Justice to the Massachusetts SJC in 1999, but she happens to be a caucasian. Never let the facts get in the way of pushing the affirmative action agenda, Globe. (Marshall was the one responsible for opening up the whole same-sex marriage can of worms, btw.)

[Porchlight]

Many establishment GOP candidates were carried across the finish line on the backs of Tea Partiers and their enthusiasm and GOTV work. That is the real contribution.

[hit and run]

James -- OTB individual posts appear to be down at the moment....

[Jack is Back!]

Headline at Fox News Channel:

67% FEWER VIEWERS AT MSNBC THAN AT FOX!

Headline at The New York Times:

96% OF MSNBC VIEWERS LIVEN 10 BLOCK AREA OF MANHATTAN.

Headline in the Topeka Capital Journal

1% of KANSASANS HAVE WATCHED MSNBC

[Danube of Thought]

How's this for a catchy lead paragraph in Der Spiegel:

It was a failure of historic proportions. With US President Barack Obama's Democrats having lost control of the House, there seems little hope for progress during his two remaining years, say German commentators. Obama himself, they say, bears much of the blame.

Read the entire delicious thing here.

[DebinNC]

The Tea Party ended the incumbant protection racket. Both">http://thehill.com/homenews/senate/127631-you-think-10-was-tough-check-out-12-">Both Dems and Reps up for reelection in 2012 know now they could be primaried and will be called to account for their votes between now and then.

[James Joyner]

@hitandrun: Thanks. Not sure what the deal was -- I never noticed any issues and all's working (for me at least) now.

[Charlie (Colorado)]

I'm no fan of the Tea Party, or rather its most visible leadership, but concur with this analysis. Counting House wins and losses with zero context is either venal or stupid.

Both.

[Clarice]

Correct, porch/

I have a request for you that's strictly personal. I cannot find my copy of Tuchman's "A Distant Mirror" which contains an hilarious description of the Duc de Berry's personal travel habiliments. Is there anyway I can get this online?

Muchas gracias for any assistance...

[Clarice]

The tea party captured the public mood of extreme discontent, helped focus and channel it into a major Obama defeat. what more can we expect of a true grassroots movement in such a short time?

If they did nothing more than persuade the unhappy voters that they were not alone and by working together they could start to effectuate change, they did more for the public weal than msnbc has done in its entire history.

[tea anyone]

Keep underestimating the discontent of the common folk at your own risk and we will serve up yet another slap to the liberal head in 2012.

Hmmm, I believe it is time for another cup of tea.

[BumperStickerist]

Clarice -

A Distant Mirror is available on Google Books.

It was one of my favorite reads, back in the day.

Link Under Name

Neither King, nor Duke, nor Baron am I.
I am the Sire D'Coucy ... bite me {paraphrased}

[hit and run]

Clarice:
Is there anyway I can get this online?

http://books.google.com/books?id=5oUIhm81B-gC&printsec=frontcover&source=gbs_ge_summary_r&cad=0#v=onepage&q&f=false>Try this

[hit and run]

LUN'ing it rather than putting the html in your post is the only reason you beat me by one minute,Mr. Stickerist.

But you beat me nonetheless,I concede.

[jorgxmckie]

I wonder what the response would be to "32% of Third Party candidates elected to Congress in Historic Election."

I mean, it the Socialist Party USA had 32% of its candidates win Congressional races, that would be big news, right?

I can only posit brain damage as the reason for the continuing narrative at MSNBC.

And that Maddow guy is getting weirder all the time.

[sbw]

You may be faster with google, but my copy of Tuchman is in the basement with real dust on it, and I can get it as soon as I get home for anyone who needs me to look something up.

A good read, as I recall... I just don't recall much.

[not_bubarooni]

hmmmm... msnbc says eh?

maybe that's why Joe & Mika, those urbane sophisticates were sneering and snarking their way the morning telecast anytime Tea Party, Palin, O'Donnel or Angle came up and were so keen to point out how those hillbillies cost the Repubs the Senate.

frankly, 32% first time in the fray seems fairly decent to me.

[JM Hanes]

James Joyner:

Contra your "triumphalism of the Tea Party in taking credit for the Republican wave," I think there's a lot less substance to the triumphalism of Tea Party critics now so apparently determined to minimize their successes. The very fact that the commentariat call "it" the "Tea Party," as opposed to the tea parties or the tea party movement skews analysis, in which a decentralized political constellation is essentially accorded third party status and judged accordingly.

The very idea that Republicans might take the Senate was inconceivable until their numbers really began to take off last July. The movement may have given us O'Donnell, but without it there would also be no Marco Rubio, among others, who is clearly going to be a substantive presence on the national stage.

It would be worth pundits' while to examine just how close the litany of electoral failures were. There were plenty of squeakers which represent competitive candidates, and plenty of races in which Democratic candidates had locally specific advantages compared to relatively unknown challengers -- challengers who will have a lot of valuable experience under their belts when 2012 rolls around.

In addition, a great deal of tea party activity was focused on changing direction at local & state levels, and building the networks which will ultimately affect the course of national politics too. The right has never been known for its ground game. That is changing with an unprecedented influx of newborn activists. They are working independently, as well as within existing Republican structures, and have been pretty successful at the state level already!

I think it's hard to underestimate the tea parties' effect on public, national debate, which was pretty anemic, and largely confined to the "political classes" -- until dissenters started showing up at town meetings across the country and scaring complacent pols silly, if not straight. They're the ones who captured the public's attention, and a sympathy which survived the most concerted, cynical smear mongering the beltway folks could muster up. It is they from whom the whole narrative of a putative "populist" challenge derives. They've had a multiplier effect which arguably rescued Republicans from their predicted 40 years in the desert.

I'd say that's not a bad 18 month track record. Not bad at all.

[Danube of Thought]

How did the Coffee Party make out?

[Danube of Thought]

The difference between 1994 and now is, that time they had Clinton.

[bgates]

it is obvious that a couple of the Senate choices (Angle, O'Donnell) probably underpeformed more mainstream alternatives

Thank goodness it's obvious. Otherwise that assertion would have to be defended, which would be hard to do. O'Donnell got 40% of the vote; the Republican candidate for the House got 41. Angle underperformed the House candidates in her state, so lesson learned: Karl Rove is electoral poison. (Or, generalizing from small data sets is dangerous.)

[Porchlight]

Hi Clarice,

Sorry I'm late on your Tuchman request. We have multiple copies here at the library - if you can't access the du Barry section you need, let me know and I'll scan it for you.

[Porchlight]

The difference between 1994 and now is, that time they had Clinton.

Ha! That's awesome.

How much does Barry regret that stupid statement now?

[Ignatz Ratzkywatzky]

--I mean, it the Socialist Party USA had 32% of its candidates win Congressional races, that would be big news, right?--

But the Dems did win around that percentage didn't they?
Oh wait you meant the openly, capital "S" Socialist Party; the honest one.

[MarkO]

The unions cost the Repubs the Senate. And, unless the conservative force overwhelms the unions, it will be difficult to take the Senate away from that group.

[MarkO]

Hasn't everyone had Clinton?

[Clarice]

Thanks all. I read thru the google excerpt but it did not have what I wanted. Porch--I want the description of a;; the geegaws and fancies that DuBerry travelled with.

Thank you VERY MUCH.
You can email it to me at [email protected]

[JM Hanes]

"Angle under performed...."

On the other hand, Harry Reid runs a corrupt GOTV operation that could give the Chicago Way a run for the money. The union force is strong in him, and virtually all of it was directed straight at Sharon Angle.

Indeed, House candidates might even have been more successful because Harry was singlemindedly occupied elsewhere. If that's the case, the Angle "disaster" may not be all it's cracked up to be.

If we had to choose one chamber to take, and up till a few weeks ago, that's all we expected to take, the House is what we needed most. Like it or not, Nancy Pelosi proved to be one hell of a Speaker when it came to ramming legislation through. Even if she couldn't pass bill number one in the 112th Congress, she'd be happily cementing and funding the new federal monster for another two years, no matter how low her approval ratings might go.

[Elliott]

Has Obama already invited Boehner to join him for a round of golf?

[Ann]

JMH:

Your 1:00PM post is excellent!

RUSH just reported that there were 680 new conservative legislative seat gains thanks to the FAILURE (ha ha) of the grass roots!

This is also interesting. Rasmussen Reports:
GOP Voters Like Three Candidates Best for 2012

[Old Lurker]

Sickens me that Huckabee is one of the three, Ann.

[Barbara]

Sickens me that Mitt Romney (call me Mr. Healthcare Reform) is one of the three.

[bgates]

On the other hand, Harry Reid runs a corrupt GOTV operation that could give the Chicago Way a run for the money.

We have as close to a perfect experimental control as can exist in politics: another statewide race in Nevada on the same day involving a Democrat named Reid. There were 680,529 votes cast for Reid or Sandoval for governor vs 682,551 for Reid or Angle for Senate, so there weren't many corruptly gotten-out single-office voters. Sandoval won by 80,000; Angle lost by 40,000.

[centralcal]

Ditto Old Lurker. Huckabee, schmuckabee.

[jwest]

Here’s one for the JOM legal department.

Is there a case to be made that would prohibit the states from using any modified form of election (early voting, vote by mail, absentee ballots, eventual internet voting, etc.) for federal office on constitutional grounds?

[Ann]

Sarah Palin Tweet:

Remember months ago "bullseye" icon used 2 target the 20 Obamacare-lovin' incumbent seats? We won 18 out of 20 (90% success rate;T'aint bad)

OL,

There is not one name on that list of candidates for 2012 that can boast about anything close to that success nor garner the enthusiasm in a primary.

The left was tearing their hair out this morning about this:

Sarah Palin's post-election ad: What's her agenda?

Watch Sarah's ad. My favorite part is the grizzly at the end which all the liberal ladies were all up in arms about this morning. (You should of seen Mika on MSNBC)
Love It!!

[sbw]

Tea party yea or nay is a red herring.

The winner this election was the traction gained developing understanding about what works in government and what doe not.

We have begun to hone our ability to explain why the ways liberals would govern hurt more than help.

It was a very positive election. We have helped people learn to recognize and laugh at bad ideas.

[centralcal]

ha ha ha ha ha ha . . . . An Iowahawk tweet (so funny, that man)

If you receive an email with the subject "Nude photos of Nancy Pelosi," do not open - it contains nude photos of Nancy Pelosi

[Jane (sit on the couch or save your country)]

The tea party increased voter turnout by 8% - it went for 82 million (in 2006) to 90 million in 2010. Independents went 55% for the GOP an 11% gain from 2008 and 16% increase since 2006.

I can't imagine why someone would not think much of the Tea party. The entire point of it is to stop the spending. WHo could be opposed to that?

[Strawman Cometh]

Yeesh, Fox affiliate reports that yesterday, 453 ballots, all for Bob Everclear, "came to light" bringing the margin under 1% and qualifying for a recount.

[Jane (sit on the couch or save your country)]

BGates - we really missed you. Does this mean the shuttle got off?

[jorgxmckie]

Re: Palins' post-election ad and the [Left] response.

They are just *determined* not to get it, aren't they?

I mean, seriously, how obdurately ignorant do you have to remain not to be able to change your view of the "unwashed" American public a single iota after an election like this one?

Is there a "Point-Missing Olympics" that the Left is engaged in that I missed somehow? [I mean, if there were, wouldn't the GOP be entering a team that includes Lott, Grahamnesty, Brooks, and Frum or someone?]

[Dave (in MA)]

How did the Coffee Party make out?

It was Sanka.

[glasater]

What JMH said at 1:00PM!

Although Dino Rossi isn't considered a Tea Party candidate those folks were out in force trying to help him win.
Plus, they'll be watching the vote count to make sure King Co doesn't pull any shenanigans ala '04.
I certainly don't want the TP to use the thuggish tactics the D's had in place for this election but certain lessons learned of their tactics can be used in 2012.

Has Obama already invited Boehner to join him for a round of golf?

Elliott--I wonder how many strokes Boehner will have to give 'O'?

[bgates]

Hi, Jane! The shuttle launch has been pushed back to at least Friday, but my friend's flight home wasn't. He still had a good time down here.

Sorry the Election to Restore Sanity didn't pan out in Mass.

[MarkO]

"Is there a case to be made that would prohibit the states from using any modified form of election (early voting, vote by mail, absentee ballots, eventual internet voting, etc.) for federal office on constitutional grounds?"

Preemption? One can always make a case, but I don't see it being successful. But, I only play a lawyer on this site.

[Janet the tea-vangelist!]

via Instapundit - take a look at this article at Daily Kos.
Pure seething hatred. The author is Tim Wise. He is a white guy that hates whites. He gets PAID to give lectures at universities & businesses across the USA. The white guilt industry.

[Jack is Back!]

Romney, Huck and the 'Cuda? No Chris Christie? Gary Johnson? Tim Pawlenty? Rick Perry? Marco Rubio (hey, why not? The Biggest Loser did it in 2 years)?

I think between now and January you will start to see the really serious candidates start making the rounds of the big-time contributors just to see who gets sorted out. This is a wide open field and you have some guys & gals out there we haven't even heard of yet. People like Matt Blunt, John Thune, Mike Pence, Young Liz Cheney just to name a few. Don't laugh. I remember laughing when people started to talk up Obama in 2006 and look where that got me.

[tommy mc donnell]

james joyner your the first person i know who has figured out just who is the leadership of the tea party(ies). why don't you enlighten us on who they are. i like to know just whom it is you don't like. i always thought that the tea party was a movement of decentralized groups of people from both the democratic and republican parties. brought together by a common belief in the constitution and a belief that the current group of politicans in washington were ignoring that constitution. these said politicans were leading this country down a path to financial ruin. its really not a party at all but a movement to return the politicans of this country to the beliefs of the people who founded tis country.

[Dave (in MA)]

Sorry the Election to Restore Sanity didn't pan out in Mass.

Maybe enough people will move to NH that we'll lose a congressman. Then we can have 9 libs instead of 10.

[jwest]

Actually, using this internet thingy, I found Article 1, Section 4, Clause 1, which gives congress the power to dictate to the states the time and manner of elections for federal offices.

This being the case, why don’t we push for the Tea Party and republicans to exercise this right and eliminate the various forms of sanctioned voter fraud made possible by liberal voting methods?

Either this or start sending ballots directly to the union halls to save time and money.

[Sara (Pal2Pal)]

If as reported, 40% of voters said they were tea party attendees or supporters, then I don't see how that isn't a big deal. Remember that not all ballots had a candidate specifically thought of as a tea party candidate, yet the Repub won. What, those 40% didn't make the difference? And then there are Districts like mine where the incumbent House member was onboard at our very first tea party gathering. He is not considered a tea party candidate, we just liked him already. I'm speaking of Rep. Darrell Issa in California.

Meghan Kelly said just 20 minutes ago that Palin's record was 39 of 77 wins on her endorsements. Not all those were tea party candidates. For instance Ayotte of NH was not the tea party candidate in the Primary, but a Palin endorsed candidate and she won the Senate seat. Angle was a tea party candidate but not a Palin endorsement.

James Joyner and his blog were so negative about the grassroots movement and the candidates associated with that movement, take his opinion with a grain of salt. The Repub elites are running scared and it isn't pretty to watch.

[Clarice]

I love Iowahawk!!

[Porchlight]

Hi Clarice - I see I'm late again to the thread! I'm on it - will email it to you asap.

[Sara (Pal2Pal)]

I know most of you don't like Romney because of the mutilated thing still called Romneycare. But, do you actually listen to him when he says that the worst thing that happened was for people to think that something designed for a specific state should be nationalized. He warned against it from the git go. He is adamant about repealing Obamacare.

Think how different it would be economically right now if we had Romney's smarts and business acumen in the White House. Republicans can be too anxious. Rubio is a great campaigner so we should anoint him as a presidential candidate, no, no, no, it is too soon. Let's yank Christie out of NJ where he is tearing them a new one, no, no, no. We need hard hitting governors doing what they are proving they do best and it is too soon as well. Huckabee is a joke, a spender, who appeals to the cultural voters. He has found his entertainment venue, let him stay there where he can have the most influence.

Take a deep breath, let's see how things go after the new Congress is seated. Let's see if the dems offer up a primary opponent to Obama or even whether Obama will be willing to stick around once he can't be a totalitarian messiah. And we see what happens when Republicans get their snooty up and don't vote, we get an incompetent like Obama. So, no matter who ends up with the nomination, it will be time to put aside personal gripes and get behind the candidate, even if its Palin, although I think in the end she will not want the hassle of running. I would be watching the women she is promoting or will be promoting as I think her first goal is to be a Queen Maker.

And why is no one mentioning Alan West? Yes, another black man, but what a man he is.

[Jane (sit on the couch or save your country)]

I like Romney's smarts too, but I live with Romney care and I am convinced at some point it will actually kill me. He calls it an "experiment" but I don't like being the experimentee.

Plus he has the charisma of a gnat.

If we want someone with no personality, I'd go for Mitch Daniels.

[macphisto]

"Elliott--I wonder how many strokes Boehner will have to give 'O'?"

hopefully not one that would allow Michelle to become the eminence gross behind the throne a la Edith Wilson.

[Clarice]

Thanks, Porch

[Janet]

Here is one of the comments on that Daily Kos article written by the white guy that hates whites -
"And you are so right.

I look at my children, who refer to my childhood in the 60's as "the time before safety" (you know, when we had lawn jarts instead of baby seats) and I know. These people frantically trying to hold on to their imaginary past are done.

by Linda in Ohio "

Her kids call the past, "the time before safety"? LOL!!!!
and lawn jarts?? We never owned those. I think we owned lawn darts and the kids that owned lawn jarts weren't allowed to play with us...losers....:)

[Porchlight]

Okay, Clarice, check your email. I think I found it - let me know if it's not the right passage.

[Charlie Martin]

There were 680,529 votes cast for Reid or Sandoval for governor vs 682,551 for Reid or Angle for Senate, so there weren't many corruptly gotten-out single-office voters

Why do you imagine that, having been corruptly gotten out, they would only vote for Harry? I'd normally expect them to either vote as they would anyway, party-line D or possibly splitting their ballot on things that aren't Party discipline being pushed by the unions.

[Porchlight]

Janet,

I only wish my kids could have the same freedoms that we had growing up. I do know a lot of liberals who feel the same way, though.

[JM Hanes]

bgates:

"We have as close to a perfect experimental control as can exist in politics: another statewide race in Nevada on the same day involving a Democrat named Reid. There were 680,529 votes cast for Reid or Sandoval for governor vs 682,551 for Reid or Angle for Senate, so there weren't many corruptly gotten-out single-office voters. Sandoval won by 80,000; Angle lost by 40,000."

You're not suggesting that the excess 2022 votes in the Senate race represent the corruptly gotten-out margin, are you? I certainly see no reason to think that voters rousted out by the machine would only cast ballots in one contest either.

IIRC, Rory has considerable baggage of his own, and Reid pére has shown little enthusiasm for advancing junior's career, if he doesn't consider him an outright embarrassment. Daddy is the one handing out the pork, and doing the land swaps and the wheeler dealing. He was clearly fighting for his own survival, and I don't see him diverting any resources to the gubernatorial contest -- which would actually tend to prove the point I was making about benign neglect, no?

I'm afraid I may have obscured that point myself, because my second sentence does sound like I was talking exclusively about getting Reid's people to the polls. What I really had in mind was the one-two punch of union muscle and an unremitting stream of attacks on Angle alone. The fact that she lost by less than Reid's son could conceivably be a testament to the relative effectiveness of her own campaign dollars, or even her own resilient persona -- Rory is the spitting image of his father, without the charisma.

I'm not contending that any of the above is an accurate reading of the Nevada story, I'm just suggesting the possibility of alternatives to the accepted wisdom that Angle lost a race which a more conventional candidate could have walked away with. There's a reason a guy who looks and sounds as dopey as Harry Reid managed to end up as Majority Leader of the Senate.

[Extraneus]

What page was it on, Porch?

[Porchlight]

I think it starts on 427, Ex, in the edition I have (not on my desk at the moment). Chapter 20.

[Extraneus]

Coconuts removed from trees in preparation for Barack Obama's India trip

[pagar]

"The whole point of it is to stop the spending". Who would be opposed to that?"

Every single person who voted for Chris Coons. The man has never done anything except raise taxes in his entire political career.

[Janet]

Coconuts removed from trees in preparation for Barack Obama's India trip

The lawn jart mentality.

[Frau Nebenan]

"Sorry the Election to Restore Sanity didn't pan out in Mass."

It didn't here in CA, either. We'll be the first state to go dumpster diving out of necessity. Please don't let us become wards of D.C.!

[Sara (Pal2Pal)]

Janet: It amazes me how my generation managed to grow to adulthood without padded playgrounds and all the other things that are today considered too dangerous for children. Shoot as 5 year olds, my cousin and I used to jump in the canoe, sans lifejackets (not even sure they'd even been heard of back then) and paddle a mile across the lake to the marsh. We'd spend the day looking for lily pads, snapping turtles, and catty nine tails. We'd bring the "tails" home, get the kerosene can and soak them so that at night fall we could light them and use them as torches. No one thought this was odd since it was SOP. Today there would be some lib calling the police and hauling a parent away for neglect or something.

I am reminded of the one and only time my Mother actually spanked me after I crossed our street as a 3 1/2 year old without holding an adult's hand or at least having an adult watching me. After the dust settled and I quit crying, she asked me if I had learned my lesson about crossing the street unattended. My answer was yes, I had learned that I had to stop, look both ways several times and make sure no oncoming cars were in sight, before crossing and I didn't think it was fair to get spanked for doing what I had been taught to do. I heard my Mother tell my Dad later that she had no answer to that and my Dad said, "get used to it, she is independent, she listens, is careful, so it is time to start letting her grow up." No, I don't personally remember all the words exactly, but it was a big enough deal to my Mother that she entered the incident in her Journal and I read her feelings about the incident 50 years later after she died.

[Specter]

Coconutz!!! Now we know why they needed a fleet to protect him....With that much firepower we can individually take out every cocoNUT palm tree in the area....LOL

[Porchlight]

Coconuts removed from trees in preparation for Barack Obama's India trip

Somebody at the MOTUS blog said something funny:

On another site dealing with this story, a commenter said, "Wasn't he born in Hawaii? The first thing Hawaiian children are taught is not to stand under coconut palms."

;)

[Specter]

Sara,

And after watching all those episodes of El Kabong it surprises me that we haven't banned guitars...clearly a hazardous implement.

But what I really find sad is that the folks trying to pass all the "safety" laws are from out (Boomers) generation.

[Extraneus]

Yeah, I read that part yesterday when Clarice first mentioned ol' Duc de Berry. It doesn't say anything about his tastes in traveling, though. Lots about his extravagant lifestyle and collections, but I couldn't find anything on traveling.

Here's a nice passage from page 428:

Berry introducted the newly invented pedal organ into his churches and bought a new jacket for four livres so that his cornetist who played so beautifully might perform a solo before Charles V. He had gold and pearls ground together for a laxative, and during enforced idleness when he was bled to relieve the effects of gluttony and an apoplectic tendency, he played at dice, his favorite pastime.

Heh.

[Clarice]

Don't give it all away, Ext! He's one of my all time faves.

[matt]

clarice;

If you like that sort of thing there is a wonderful book back in a box in the garage on Ghiberti and Brunelleschi, "The Feud that sparked the Renaissance", on how they competed and spurred much of the greatness of Renaissance architecture and art. It weaves in the plague and the Medicis and the various and sundry wars at the turn of the 14th century.

A nice southern complement to Tuchman's book with lots of Machiavellian touches.

[mockmook]

The WH is disputing the cost, and the number of warships.

But, they won't say the actuals (security, you know).

[Frau Nebenan]

Well-stated, Sara. Words to consider.

"Plus he (Romney) has the charisma of a gnat."
That's a toughie in these times when media reigns. Pity poor Truman who followed elegant but disastrous FDR. Threadkiller mentions CA's Tom McClintock who will never win a Miss Congeniality contest but is sharp and would have made a better gov. than Schwarzenegger. Darrell Issa is another who has a lot to offer and bowed out for Arnold. He is quiet and not the looker he used to be. When it comes time to choose a champion for the cause, I just hope it will an honest contest on our side of the aisle.
Oh, and I like the idea of pushing for voting reform. As long as everyone knows the results can be manipulated as blatantly as nowadays, there will be no real resolution after an election. Even as I write, more "misplaced or overlooked" ballots are being found. I hope they are for Rossi and Miller.

Let every legal vote count.

[Frau Nebenan]

The WH is disputing the cost, and the number of warships.
>>>>Who is on the guest list? I want names.

[Porchlight]

Sara,

My little brother snuck out of the house on Halloween night the year he was 3 and went trick or treating by himself - barefoot. My mom thought he was in bed. A couple of days later on Election Day, she went down to vote (the polling place was our neighbor's house, amazingly) and a neighbor mom scolded her. Not for letting her 3 yo kid out of the house alone on Halloween night, but for letting him out without shoes. (It was KY, so it wasn't very cold.)

It was a different time. I had the run of that neighborhood when I was 4-5. It was a semi-urban neighborhood, near a couple of major thoroughfares. But there was someone home most days in nearly every house - a mom or a retiree - and we knew practically everyone.

[hit and run]

JMH:
Daddy is the one handing out the pork, and doing the land swaps and the wheeler dealing.

"I don't know what the term is in Austrian..."
--stuff Obama said

[Janet]

IMO some of the safety insanity says more about the parents than the kids. Rather than being strong enough to tell their own kids that they can't go on that old unsafe slide....the parents get the slide banned so nobody can go on it. Then their kid doesn't feel left out & they don't have to enforce their own family rule.
That is what happened at a pool we belonged to....one family threatened to sue. So we all lose the great old twisty-turny slide.
With physical safety, the left is all about banning, removing, guarding...
With moral safety, the left is all about total access to every depravity...otherwise we are prudes.

Raising my kids...I was always more guarded with moral safety. No TV when they were really young, checked all the movies & books,...But those were OUR family rules. We didn't try to stop others from watching or reading whatever they thought appropriate.

[Porchlight]

Oh, but to continue that thought, I do agree with you generally. We were brought up to take care of ourselves and to know what to do if something went wrong.

Like I said, I wish my kids had that freedom. I want them to walk to school (2 blocks away) by themselves, or go to the convenience store, but I'm afraid I'll get CPS called on me. ;)

[Porchlight]

Sorry, that last was meant for Sara. Janet, I totally agree with your 4:22 too.

[Sara (Pal2Pal)]

GOP picks up 680 legislative seats

Just sayin'!

[Clarice]

matt, my favorite figures were really not the competing fops but that nice family the Fugers, who really invented the multinational corporation,
the artisans who created the objects of art and utility and the skilled horticulturalists,bakers and vintners...

The fops who preened and pranced while they starved their people get tons more coverage then they were worth.

[laura]

I have a four bike carrier on the back of my SUV. Over the years, when no one was looking I let my daughter stand on it
as we drove down the road. Of course she was the one who at 18 months would stand on the pint size rocking chair and rock it just to the point of tipping, but not quite. Besides the enormous grin of her face we got a huge kick out of her incredible balance and coordination.
I had the enchanted experience of living in the old Canal Zone for part of my childhood. We used to follow the drainage ditches
way back into the jungle for hours looking for deadly wildlife.

[Sara (Pal2Pal)]

Raising my kids...I was always more guarded with moral safety. No TV when they were really young, checked all the movies & books,...But those were OUR family rules. We didn't try to stop others from watching or reading whatever they thought appropriate.

My Mother was an avid reader and our house was full of bookshelves. Some of the books were definitely not appropriate for kids. I started to read at three and by five I was as avid reader as my Mom. She realized that it was only a matter of time until I was looking at her books. She sat me down and went over how precious books are and how we must never mar a book in any way. Then she took me to the bookshelves and pulled out a few books she thought were appropriate and told me I had to wait 'til I was older to read the rest. Well, you know what happened over the next few years ... I had to read all the books she didn't think I should be reading. I would sneak them off the shelf while she was at work and get them back before she got home.

Porch: When I was three I went around the neighborhood with a pad and pencil selling Girl Scout cookies. I don't know how many orders I got, but my Mother started getting calls a few weeks later from neighbors wondering why they didn't get their cookies. It wasn't even cooking selling time. I was just imitating the older kids and I wanted to prove to my mean Mother that I WAS old enough to be a Brownie, something I blamed her for not letting me do. I did not understand why, if I could sell cookies successfully, my Mother still thought I had to wait until 7 to be a Brownie. Oh I should mention that my Mother was the Executive Director of the regional Girl Scout Council. I also rebelled and refused to set the table when asked because Brownies help at home and since she wouldn't let me be a Brownie, I was not under any obligation to help at home.

[maryrose]

My brothers and I used to climb old abandoned fire escapes and hang upside-down on the monkey bars now called the jungle gym.With 7 kids in the family we had unlimited freedom and loved it!

[Frau Nebenan]

I'm partial to the Parler family of masons and architects who were responsible for many of the masterpieces of 14th century Europe.

[Frau Kohnlenstoff]

From Sara's link: "The governor (Christie)announced that beginning January, he'll cut 1,200 state jobs saving New Jersey taxpayers $8.8 million."
CA may hire them to help crack down on the carbon criminals among us.

[Specter]

Quick update to the Governor's results here in CT:

Now it appears that "officials" (read that as Malloy supporters) used the Reverse 9-1-1 system to get the word out that the polls were still open in Bridgeport. You know, the system to only be used in life-or-death situations.

So - picture it. You came home, not intending to vote. It's 8 p.m. and the results are starting to show up on the TV. You see that Malloy might be in trouble, but heck - too late, the polls are closed. But - miraculously your phone informs you that the polls are still open. Golden opportunity!!! What a bunch of crap!

[Frau Kohnlenstoff]

In the first grade, I broke each wrist, one after the other, while at school. Later when I began teaching, a child fell from one of the bars at school and broke an arm. At our teachers' meeting, the very quick decision* was made to remove *all* the bars to prevent another similar accident. I had to prevail upon the group that instruction would be better, exercise was important and that accidents could never be prevented.

*yes, it was a CA school, but the teachers were hired from all over the U.S. in those days when CA paid more.

[Porchlight]

This polls staying open late thing is complete BS. It's such transparent fraud.

[Janet]

CA may hire them to help crack down on the carbon criminals among us.

LOL! I have a feeling I'm gonna be a carbon criminal at some point! I don't even like to recycle anymore because I'm so mad at the greenies.