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November 15, 2010

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Marinaman

Republicans won on fiscal conservative, smaller government and stronger foreign policy. There is no mandate on Social issues. Stay away from those issues and we win going away in 2012.

Appalled

A good way to see if the Tea Party has failed ---

1. There is a lot of thunderous social issue rhetoric coming out of Washington; or

2. there is a lot of thunderous foreign policy, or anti Muslim rhetoric coming out of Washington.


Alessandro Machi

Ah, the progressive democratic anti-Clinton backlash is about to turn into a republican coup. However, it will require conservative republicans being more humble then their highly arrogant, never wrong, progressive democrat counterparts.

http://www.dailypuma.com

Clarice

Instapundit has a number of cites today where the tea party is insisting that social issues take backseats to fiscal reform--I think people have wised up to that game, appalled.

daddy

In sort of a "Bearded Spock universe" episode of the Ground Zero Mosque affair, BBC is reporting that Judges in India have issued a ruling concerning the destroyed Mosque of Ayodhya. ">http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-south-asia-11759733"> Muslim appeal over Ayodhya ruling.

IIRC, Initially Ayodhya, birthplace of the Hindu God Ram, was the site of a famous ancient Hindu Temple that was destroyed by Islamic invaders and then replaced with an Islamic Mosque. 18 years back, amid Religious conflict, Hindus destroyed the Mosque.

Now from the Lucknow Bench, unlike Solomon (who suggested dividing the baby into 2 pieces), the Indian Solomon's have ruled that the Sacred property should be divided into 3 parts.

If I understand correctly, this would allow the Hindu sect that destroyed the Mosque the right to build a Hindu Temple upon part of the destroyed Muslim Temple.

Muslims are appealing the ruling. Now we shall see if they follow the lead of Mayor Bloomberg, Obama, and Peace-nicks everywhere, bury their hurt feelings, and politely encourage the building of the Hindu Temple on their Sacred plot of ground, or instead if they act like the many racist and bigoted Islamphobic New York haters, and peacefully protest at the top of their lungs this inappropriate indignity.

PS,

Was a "Magnitude 4.6 - KENAI PENINSULA, ALASKA"

Kayyy...ayyy,..ayy...ayy...Roo..ooo...ooo.

Extraneus

What'll this do to Huck's candidacy?

bgates

One guy has been responsible for most of the "rhetoric coming out of Washington" for the past two years, and it will be a sign of the Tea Party's strength when he continues.

Sara (Pal2Pal)

However, it will require conservative republicans being more humble

I'm sick of humble, I'm sick of polite, I'm sick of always being expected to take the high ground, especially when there is no humble, no polite and no high ground ever from the other side. You can't sit with your pinky in the air while someone is beating the sh!t out of you. You either have to fight back hard and take them down or you have to try to run away. I say try since you won't get very far before you are blamed for inciting a riot because you had your pinky in the air in the first place.

peter

great post, daddy Maybe Bloomberg will tell them to stop using trans fats and butter in funeral pyres as part of the deal.

ke_future

Huck doesn't really have a chance anyways. This is just one more nail in the coffin.

I'm with Reynolds and Tom (and what seems like the vast majority of the TEA party folks), we need fiscal responsibilty in our governement, and the government out of our lives. Huck doesn't work for either proposition.

Sara (Pal2Pal)

Cody Alicea (kid with flag on bike) gets Patriot escort

Lots of pics.

Janet the tea-vangelist!

Here is a good post from Nov. 3, from Instapundit How Many Legs Are Under the Tea Party Stool?...the ANOTHER UPDATE comment is good.

Was GOProud big in the Tea Parties? I agree the focus should be on small government, lower taxes, less regulation....but I don't want a lot of johnny-come-latelys (sp?) to tell the work horses what they are allowed to talk about.

NK

TM--

I think you'll get your wish. What has welded the views of "moderate independents" to "conservatives" is disgust with the BHO/Nancy/Harry spending and fed gov't power tsunami. So by default the conservative "movement" for the next few years will focus on cutting gov't spending, rolling back Obamacare, PRIVATE job creation and no broad tax increases. Stem cells? the scientific maketplace will move away from embryonic research, as adult pluripotent cells are far more effective and have no moral dilemma; AGW? bogus social movement is falling fast from its 2008 zenith; DADT? commonsense will keep a fair 17 year old policy; gay marriage? the activists will start divorcing, the rest of the gays don't care, it will be a fading fade. Nope, for the next few years politics will be shaped by meat and potatoes small v. big government, spending cuts v. bankruptcy. That's Armageddon for the left. happy days for JOMers.

I R A Darth Aggie

I'm sick of humble, I'm sick of polite, I'm sick of always being expected to take the high ground, especially when there is no humble, no polite and no high ground ever from the other side.

Wrong kind of humble. We're talking this ain't no damn mandate, you're on probabtion kind of humble.

Humble towards the voters. Unlike Her Imperial Majesty, Nancy I.

Sara (Pal2Pal)

We're talking this ain't no damn mandate

I don't agree there is no mandate. I think the mandate is loud and clear. Yes, there is a time limit on that mandate. It is put up or shut up or we'll elect someone to replace you that will follow the mandate we've laid out. It is a very strong mandate with just as strong a threat attached. The message, everyone is replaceable so do the job we elected you to do or face the consequences of our wrath.

boris

"how hard would it be for them to resume their seat at the back of the bus, as it were?"

Just to be clear ...

  • Advance progressive social agenda by activist judges ... Oppose!
  • Advance progressive social agenda by legislative process ... Favor!
  • Roll Back progressive social agenda by legislative process ???.
Shut Up! he explained

Janet the tea-vangelist!

Exactly boris. I want a level playing field. The chance to win hearts & minds..& then win the vote.

Rick Ballard

"And I am curious what the social conservatives really are looking for."

A nice auto da fé on Wall Street, involving three or four 'too big to fail' institutions responsible for the general rape of the Republic would make a nice start. Nothing improves moral tone like imprisoning and impoverishing oligarchs who depend upon "but everyone was doing it" as an adequate defense against complete abandonment of fiduciary responsibility in pursuit of just one more fee or commission.

anduril

I am curious what the social conservatives really are looking for.

Are you for f*ckin' real? How about: an end to federal funding in Obamacare? That's a social issue AND a fiscal issue.

Frau Appeltaat

I'm with Sara. I don't think she meant "Ra(h)m it down their throats, snotty and snarling. It's our job to sit close and watch every bite the politicians take and every move that make. Let's see *real* transparency. Let a real budget be made.

Frau Appeltaat

Meanwhile at Patterico, it was said, "Plus, if Olbermann touches my junk, I’m going to have him arrested."

anduril

Oh, fer...

I was so upset at TM's obtuseness that I left out the key word:

How about: an end to federal funding of ABORTION in Obamacare? That's a social issue AND a fiscal issue.

Terrye

I remember a lot of conservatives jumping all over Mitch Daniels for saying something just like this.

Frau Appeltaat

The Hillbuzz gang have sounded their charge.
LUN

BTW Killing Obamacare has been front and center here

sam

Here's a simple thought:

People (and voters) decide what the agenda in 2012 will be, not some groups and some leaders.

This kind of idiocy is a sure-fire way to lose elections, when the ignored don't show up. Ask John McCain.

Let me give an example. Bob McDonnell in VA 2009 won the governorship only because he carried born-gain evangelical Christians (who made up 34% of the electorate) by a whopping margin of 83-17. He lost everyone else 56-44. In other words, if the conservative dimension were absent in VA 2009, we would have Gov. Deeds today.

The social factors have not been front-and-center in the 2009-2010 cycle because most Republican candidates have mirrored the social conservatism or liberalism of the local individual races. The 2012 elections will not have the same social neutrality.

Extraneus

Watch out for Huck is all I'm saying. No sense breathing life into him with some social civil war, that the left will surely stoke even if it didn't already exist.

Speaking of which, who's GOProud, anyway?

Susan

"Stay away from those issues and we win going away in 2012."

Interesting; if true why then does it always happen that a COnservative candidate running is first asked about topic such as:

"How do you feel about Masterbation" or

"WHat is so wrong about humping a bunch of anon monkeys every night" or

"Hey, what is so bad about teachers fisting the kiddies-why everyone does it"

Come now boys, GROW UP WEAK PANSIES and stop using the social conservatives as your f*&king punching bag for reasons why the Republican Party has a problem.

Rick Ballard

The Philly Fed provides a rationale for the oligarchs abrupt move to bargaining. If the projections regarding GDP growth and unemployment for '11-'12 are correct, then the populist movement will grow substantially and the oligarchs in both parties will become an endangered species.

It appears to be more of a wedge move than well intentioned advice.

Captain Hate

I remember a lot of conservatives jumping all over Mitch Daniels for saying something just like this.

I remember your obsession about Christine O'Donnell here and at AoS.

Cecil Turner

And I am curious what the social conservatives really are looking for.

No more ending sentences in prepositions for a start. (Okay, that's probably not job one.)

Seems to me the ongoing erosion of the US fiscal house is having serious deleterious effects on the American dream--from the value of one's house to the prospects for a comfortable retirement--and that most conservatives of every stripe should be well on board for that part of the program. Hopefully we can argue about most of the other stuff later.

I was so upset at TM's obtuseness . . .

Talk about self-parody.

Danube of Thought

I understand this election to have been overwhelmingly about fiscal issues, almost to the complete exclusion of social issues and foreign policy questions. I think the GOP in congress understands it that way too.

boris

"Hopefully we can argue about most of the other stuff later."

Well the topic seems a little preemptive right now. ISTM differences between the groups are ...

  1. Less imporant than shared economic concerns,
  2. but more important to conservatives than moderates.
Is 2008 status quo on issues like prop 8 and DADT really so bad to risk an effective coalition?

Ignatz

--Come now boys, GROW UP WEAK PANSIES and stop using the social conservatives as your f*&king punching bag for reasons why the Republican Party has a problem.--

Precisley. Is there a shred of evidence the Repubs lost congress because they were too conservative with social issues and not because they were too liberal with fiscal ones?
The three main "social" issues for the last decade have been abortion, gun control and gay marriage and all three issues have time and again proven to be winners for Republicans and albatrosses for the Dems, so once again the knuckleheads tell us to go sit in the back so they because they have proven such wonderful stewards of conservatism or either the fiscal or social variety? I don't think so.
We have some considerable fiscal insanity going on which will require the full attention of the government to fix in the immediate future; most social conservatives understand that. But the idea that if not for social conservatives it would be easier to do or that being pro marriage and anti abortion are some unpopular, niche, extremist positions is the same stupid condescension that I suspect will someday permanently divide the GOP should it ever succeed in righting the fiscal ship and that issue is no longer the glue to hold the party together.

Danube of Thought

I can't remember whether anybody has posted this NY Times budget balancing exercise here or not, but if you haven't done it, give the thing a try. Getting it done is a lot easier than we've been led to believe, even though they don't give you the option to cut the federal work force by more than 10% or the federal work force by more than 5%.

I solved the nation's pre-eminent problem in a trice. And I was just getting started...

boris

"I understand this election to have been overwhelmingly about fiscal issues"

My take is the fiscal issue became a social issue which fostered an alliance. IMO "shut up" is the wrong middle ground.

Danube of Thought

federal *pay* by more than 5%

Danube of Thought

Great. Now the TSA assholes are gonna unionize. Make this a hot issue for 2012, along with the light bulb crap.

bgates

Cody Alicea (kid with flag on bike) gets Patriot escort

Looks like somebody didn't get the message about leaving social issues off the agenda.

matt

"he touched my junk" should become the next tea party slogan.

Ignatz

--I solved the nation's pre-eminent problem in a trice. And I was just getting started...--

Yeah, at Hotair Headlines James Pethokoukis said he balanced the budget in under a minute.


Janet

For me the Tea Party movement is about government overreaching too. Not just with taxes & spending, but with micromanaging our lives.
*No lightbulbs, no flags, no Bibles, no SUVs...
*Dictating perverse sex ed to little kids, dictating special privileges for certain groups,...
While unwilling to enforce legitimate laws (stopping illegals), they vomit out endless regulations & laws to stop legitimate commerce (energy production).
So busy micromanaging our lives that they can't perform their legitimate functions anymore.

Janet

Now Obama is going to Europe.
Bu-Bye....

MayBee

So busy micromanaging our lives that they can't perform their legitimate functions anymore.

Good point Janet.
The less the federal government feels it needs to get involved with, the less important social issues become.
Similarly, the less the federal government feels it needs be involved in our lives, the less ungovernable we become.

Janet

GOProud getting a donation & apology from Manchester Grand Hyatt for giving a donation for Prop 8.

????pretty sure I'm not on board with GOProud's agenda.

JM Hanes

Ignatz:

"The three main "social" issues for the last decade have been abortion, gun control and gay marriage and all three issues have time and again proven to be winners for Republicans and albatrosses for the Dems."

I don't think most people who talk about socially conservative issues include gun control, but in any case I think the stats make it pretty clear that it was the independents and their shared concerns about fiscal sanity/government expansion who ultimately put us over the top in this election -- us being conservatives of every stripe.

I certainly see no reason to warn social conservatives off. It behooves everyone to avoid splitting the current coalition apart. The fact that the political/economic factions worry that the social right might do that, however, is really a backhanded acknowledgment that they are, in fact, a constituency who could, if they chose to.

Pagar

"Make this a hot issue for 2012, along with the light bulb crap."

It needs to be made a hot issue for the rest of 2010 and 2011 and 2012. Drudge has headlined it perfectly. "The Terrorists have Won". But it is not only the terrorists, it is also the Democrats. Unionize another 50,000 federal employees and the Democrats completely control another area of our lives.
The first thing the union will need will be another hundred thousand employees because where one employee can now feel up a little old nun, the unionized members will need three employees to do it.

The time to stop public employee unions is before they get started.

Captain Hate

Tammy Bruce had a member of GOProud on her show prior to the election and he sounded very reasonable in terms of "when the state leaves me alone I have the best chance of living life as I please without bothering others". Teh Tam got an agreement that pushing a radical homo agenda would be really stupid. If I were a member of the Tammy Army I'd bring the Prop 8 item to her attention.

JM Hanes

Janet:

When you've lost Reuters.....................

If President Barack Obama is not yet convinced that his international star power has faded, his next round of transatlantic summitry should clear up any lingering doubts.

.......................... you are lost indeed.

Frau Appeltaat

OT - I had not heard of the addition 11 attacks on Christian communities in Iraq following the recent massacre in Baghdad's Our Lady of Salvation. I have not heard a single word from the WH on any of this. (insert Barney Fife remark) Is this more separation of church and state? (/s)

The Anchoress offers us the opportunity to write to the Christian community in Iraq and express condolences and support. This small minority is in the process of being exterminated. The Jews were "Welcome to leave Iraq" and now the the Christians are in the sights. If you wish to write, the messages will be delivered by Wednesday.
Address: tonuncio@gmail.com
His Beatitude Emmanuel Delli
Patriarch of the Chaldean Catholic Church in Baghdad

sbw

To be sure, the federal work force unionization ought to be repealed, but a fair start would be to preclude any union from representing more than one quarter of an agency work force.

For instance, the USPS has more than 500,000 employees. Let them only represent 125k max and compete for the jobs. Contracts go to the lowest agreement. Let the unions compete with each other.

America is all about competition.

Janet

Thanks for your 8:07 post Frau.

Chubby

Cap

Tammy is one the few high profile, non church, writers that has been un PC enough to write about society's moral issues. From reading her book, "The Death of Right and Wrong" I came away with the impression that she is no laisser-faire libertarian.

Chubby

Ultimately I don't think it makes a hell of a lot of dfference who is in office if a nation's commuity standards are so degraded that it doesn't know the difference between right and wrong any more. It takes more than prudent fiscal management to keep a nation strong, a fact that the Founders knew well, and this generation apparently does not.

Janet

same Chubby...her book is great.

Captain Hate

Chubby, I used to not know what to make of Tammy when I first heard her but she's a no-nonsense kickass babe who is well versed in the casuistry of the left, having experienced it being aimed at her. She does things her own way (I don't know how profitable it is for her to do her radio show online and financed through member contributions; but it's an interesting way to avoid annoying commercials and she never seems to be lacking for things to say over three straight hours with tiny breaks) and is unique in the world of talk radio imo.

maryrose

I like Tammy because she tells it like it is. Once you are on the dems s--- list they can really do you in. Remember the gal that designed the butterfly ballot down in Palm Beach.Florida. She got thrown under the bus but hard. Also Cindy Sheehan after she ceased being useful was booted big time. Dems will use you and abuse you.

Chubby

((Dems will use you and abuse you.))

An experience that could well be in the cards for Obama.

RogerCfromSD

A "Conservative" is both fiscally and socially conservative. There is no separating the two aspects from each other. Conservatives have principles, and principles are not set aside in order to be politically expedient.

If someone wants to define themselves as fiscally conservative and socially liberal, they can call themselves "Libertarians."

But, no one gets to redefine Conservatism because they don't want to deal with core issues based on core principles.

Tea Party Central

This is another brilliant move by the TP "Patriots"! Obviously, the GOP is too big and needs to be shrunk down in size to its core libertarian constituency. (After that's done, it can be shrunk down to just the Randroids).

Plus, who cares about social issues like immigration? It's not like that's far more salient with far more opposition than helping the Kochs make more money. Who lives here and who votes is unimportant. What's really important is that David Koch has another billion.

Go Teaparty "Patriots"!

Ignatz

--I don't think most people who talk about socially conservative issues include gun control...--

JMH,
They used to, because the NRA and social conservatives make up the large majority of the pro gun movement. Libertarians are largely on board but back in the days of city wide gun bans and manufacturer lawsuits the Dems correctly identified their main obstacle as social conservatives. That the pro gun folks did not allow themselves to be silenced and pushed to the back of the bus is the main reason it is no longer seen as a social conservative issue, because the Dems have learned it kills them at the polls and for now have largely thrown in the towel.

Mark Folkestad

I'm coming to this thread late, but the most effective way to kill off the GOP would be to tell us social conservatives to STFU. I've worked hard all of my life for the party, served on my county party's executive board, served as a College Republican chairman at a small college and on the CR board at the University of Minnesota chapter. I also worked hard on the first campaign of an old friend, former Rep. Vin Weber. The stench of RINOs is still in my nostrils, and I will not abide by jerks telling me to kiss their asses.

Follow the money not the honey.

Social conservatism will take care of itself. It's the baseline human condition. It's the fiscal crap that is not self centering.
=======================

Let it sane, let it song, let it sum.

Ne cherchez pas la femme; regardez l'argent.
==============

Mark Folkestad

Heh, if you find enough of the silver, the women will look for you.

daddy

MeFolkes,

IIRC you are heading down toward Ketchikan. Talk Radio today spent a good bit of time today on the only State Representative from Ketchikan, Republican Kyle Johansen.

Local politicking for Committee Chairmanships in Juneau this week has turned ugly, and suddenly Johansen and his Republican colleague and rumored girlfriend Millette are off a Budget Committee Causcus, and now the Ketchikan paper is asking him to resign. This is from the ">http://www.adn.com/2010/11/14/1554483/reactions-mixed-to-legislators.html"> ADN, so obviously take it with a great grain of salt but regardless, possibly worth your attention for events near your new home.

Who's running this show boat to China?

Just cuz' you're out sailing around with the wind in your face, doesn't mean you can't put on the coffee pot and sound a little reveille, Jane.
==================

J

The argument that you cannot be socially liberal and a fiscal conservative....I'd like more explanation of that.

And now that the socially liberal have their judges in place, you are right, no need for socially conservative people to do anything other than submit. We all know from reading about past socially liberal societies, how this will end.

I come from MA and have seen how the court-mandated liberal policies have played out and watched the companies and people flood out of this state.

sbw

A social liberal can be constitutionally conservative. I think they are called libertarian.

Annoying Old Guy
The argument that you cannot be socially liberal and a fiscal conservative

That wasn't the claim. The claim was that if you are socially liberal and fiscally conservative, you're a Libertarian, not a Conservative, and that if you are a Conservative, you are conservative both socially and fiscally. It's an argument about labels.

sbw

I don't buy the label. One chooses to conserve principles that have worked in practice... and what proves to have worked best in practice my be different that what seemed best yesterday.

As it stands today, today's liberals aren't classically liberal; they are conservative and today's conservatives are classically liberal and I Don't Know plays third base.

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