Switching Grinding Gears - Cheney Offered To Step Down?!?

From the Times tease of the new Bush book:

6:14 p.m. | Updated President George W. Bush considered dumping Vice President Dick Cheney from his 2004 reelection ticket to dispel the myths about Mr. Cheney’s power in the White House and “demonstrate that I was in charge,” the former president says in a new memoir.

The idea came from Mr. Cheney, who offered to drop out of the race one day during a private lunch between the two men in mid-2003. “I did consider the offer,” Mr. Bush writes, and spent several weeks exploring the possibility of replacing Mr. Cheney with Senator Bill Frist of Tennessee, the majority leader, before opting against the switch.

...Mr. Bush wrote that he trusted Mr. Cheney, valued his steadiness and considered him a good friend. So, “at one of our lunches a few weeks later, I asked Dick to stay and he agreed.”

Mid-2003? I want dates!  With the looming release of the new Valerie Plame fantasy (inspired by actual events!) I have been having post-traumatic stress flashbacks to my favorite obsession.  And one of those flashbacks included this speculation about Scooter Libby's motive for lying to the FBI:

I don't think Cheney, Libby, or anyone in the White House had any notion that Wilson's wife may have been covert (was she?), so the notion that this was a staged leak to punish Wilson was simply a convenient partisan fiction.

However, I do think Libby lied to the investigators of this non-crime, thereby committing a crime.  His motives would have been to cling to his own security clearances and to protect Dick Cheney from embarrassment.  Do keep in mind that Cheney was not a viable Presidential candidate in 2008, so as of June 2003 there was some thought that Bush might attempt to anoint his successor by picking a new VP.

So to tie in this latest tidbit, Cheney made a pre-emptive offer to resign, hoping Bush would turn him down.  Meanwhile, loyal underlings like Libby were, uhhh, managing the message to the FBI in order to shield Cheney from his enemies.  And those enemies included some higher-ups at the DoJ, who were scuffling with Cheney on interrogtion and the NSA warrantless surveillance at about this time (mid 2003 to early 2004).

Comments

[peter]

If it weren't for the Plame/Libby phony scandal, I never would have found Just One Minute, and I wouldn't have all my friends here on JOM.

[Pagar]

Seconding the message from peter.

[Just ask Eckenrode.]

No, Russert lied.
========

[Captain Hate]

What's the source of that second quote because the link isn't working for me.

[narciso]

I concurr with Peter's point, Cheney like Rumsfeld are honorable men, in a time of a tough war, they considered all alternatives,
unfortunately like almost a third of a century
so, did the 'clean toga crew' from Gracchi if not Caesar's party

[hit and run]

Indeed,peter.

And I didn't even find JOM until late 2004 I think -- didn't "find" the comments section until 2005,and didn't even wade in 'round these parts until just before the election in 2006.

It feels like I've known you people for a lot more than four years. And in most cases,that's a "time flies when you're having fun" statement.

[TheVIMH: Oh. So for which peeps here is that not true?]
Kidding. Everyone here is barrel-of-monkeys fun. Everyone.

[Jack is Back!]

Cheney!

Which reminds me - how come we are seeing more of young Liz lately? I always figured her for a topy elected office like Senator or even a AG in some state. Where is she?

One tough cookie who is usually spot on in her security analysis.

[Jack is Back!]

::we are not seeing more of young Liz::

Fat Fingers Forget!

[Army of Davids]

Must see documentary...."Waiting for Superman"

[Jack is Back!]

Since the election thread is so long I will use this one to congratulate Allen West in dumping Ron Klein. Florida did itself proud in dumping Kosmas, Grayson and Alan Boyd. Rick Scott will end up winning and Marco Rubio is the new rock star in the Senate. A Rand Paul, Marco Rubio and Ron Johnson caucus will be joined by De Mint and Coburn for starters. There will be no rest or peace for Dingy Harry - he will have wished he lost by the time that crowd is done with him.

[Texas Mom 2010]

I would love to see Liz Cheney in the next Republican administration. She is always serious and extremely knowledgeable about issues. She really shines in the foreign policy arena. Maybe Sec State or even VP?

[John Bibb]

***
Valerie Plame and her husband did work for the C.I.A. But they did not meet the very specific requirements to be considered as covert agents. And they posed in a James Bond style convertible with spy glasses, etc. No covert agents ever exposes themselves this way.
***
And no crime occurred. But Scooter Libby paid the price anyway due to a PERJURY TRAP setup. He should have taken the fifth amendment on all questions. He was too dumb to have done so.
***
And apparently General Colin Powell knew who the real "leaker" was--and he kept quiet as Scooter got screwed over.
***
Rocketman
***

[Jane (sit on the couch or save your country)]

Thanks for bringing all that previous unknown information to us John.

[Cecil Turner]

Meanwhile, loyal underlings like Libby were, uhhh, managing the message to the FBI in order to shield Cheney from his enemies.

Sorry, but this makes no sense. If Cheney, Libby, et al, were trying to use Plame's identity to discredit Wilson, it'd look a lot like this:

ARMITAGE: Yeah. And I know [ ] Joe Wilson's been calling everybody. He's pissed off because he was designated as a low-level guy, went out to look at it. So, he's all pissed off.
WOODWARD: But why would they send him?
ARMITAGE: Because his wife's a [ ] analyst at the agency.
WOODWARD: It's still weird.
ARMITAGE: It---It's perfect. This is what she does she is a WMD analyst out there.

[emphasis in original]

There was no need to shield Cheney, just as there was no jeopardy for having leaked Plame's name. Just ask Armitage.

The far more likely answer is that Libby couldn't remember precisely who said what to whom (three months later) because it wasn't important to him. And GWB's contention to the contrary (along with the truly execrable “demonstrate that I was in charge” quote above) makes him look more than a little dim.

[Appalled]

Cecil:

Bush had been getting hit with commentary that he was Cheney's puppet since he selcted him for VP. For a guy with a politician-sized ego (and who else runs for President), that's really hard to take.

Can't say I blame Bush for his thoughts. He probably made the right political decision.

[Cecil Turner]

Can't say I blame Bush for his thoughts.

If I had a thought like that, I'd fer damn sure not air it out.

My initial impression of both episodes discussed above was that for a guy who placed such a premium on loyalty, he apparently needed a little reminder that it's a two-way street.

[Appalled]

Well, since Cheney aired his problem with Bush over pardoning Libby, I guess he felt he could air his thoughts as well.

If Bush thought it was a political winner to ditch Cheney in 2004, he would have. Probably with Cheney's full support.

[maryrose]

peter and Pagar:
The Plame kerfuffle is also how I found JOM via Instapundit, around 2004.

[Charlie Martin]

If I had a thought like that, I'd fer damn sure not air it out.

I don't believe that for a second.

[daddy]

Hit,

Wonder if it would be possible to find and publish the first comment ever made at JOM by each of the regulars here.

Have no idea if that would be fun or embarrassing. I know for me that I was so nervous in the early days about posting anything that it was almost agonizing to hit "Post". And now I'm comfortable yammering on regularly about Sweetart's and dog poops at 2 AM with a jug of beer next to me. HaH!

[BobDenver]

Maryrose: me, too. TM was the best around at detailing and analyzing that mess. I came for the Plame, but I've stayed for the comments, which are the snarkiest highbrow comments anywhere.

[hit and run]

Daddy:
Wonder if it would be possible to find and publish the first comment ever made at JOM by each of the regulars here.

That's a cool idea. But that's either 1) a job for Elliott; or 2) narciso has them all memorized.

[Jane]

My first post was a question: What is 2x2x4 (or something like that) which was a reference to the Libby case. Clarice answered. She was so kind I never left altho I still don't remember what that stood for.

[sbw]

My first comment: When I'll join the left

When I'll join the left... from sbw
Michael Maguire offers, Battle For The Blogosphere: ... [Read More]

February 15,2005. TM was kind enough to come 'round to my blog and inform me his name was not Michael.

This is what I wrote [corrected] on my blog that day:

Tom Maguire offers, Battle For The Blogosphere: How The Lefty Blogs Can Win The Blogosphere, Revive Their Party, And Save Our Country (And Why They Won't). He opines that righties owe their success to having organized in the blogosphere differently (the pack) than lefties (the hive). That, he supposes, is why lefties haven't traction.

My comment: Interesting. I got here via Instapundit. Why come? Because I'm not interested in just MY ideas, I'm interested in GOOD ideas, and, as Montaigne said in the late 1500s, why shouldn't I run to embrace the truth when I see it coming.

So, if you shut off comments, you've killed off feedback. When you are convinced, there is no reason to listen.

The reason I'm not "left" (and I don't consider myself "right", but lefties put me there) is threefold: 1) In their impatience to act, they often address problems by hiding them rather than solving them, 2) Once committed, they are too brittle to consider alternatives from those who are politically incorrect enough to suggest there may be a better way, and 3) They insulate themselves from criticism by believing others are too dumb, venal, or selfish to possibly have a good idea worth weaving in to their own.

Well. I'm ready to join your campaign as soon as you address these issues.

[daddy]

sbw,

How did you find your first comment?

If there is some procedure via the computer that lets us find that I'd lover to know.

It might be fun come the weekend for TM to dedicate a post to his first JOM post, and then allow us each to post whatever we were blabbin' about on our first comment.

[Jane]

My first post was a question: What is 2x2x4 (or something like that) which was a reference to the Libby case. Clarice answered. She was so kind I never left altho I still don't remember what that stood for.

[sbw]

Daddy, I snuck back to my old blog and searched the messages where TM was kind enough to let me know he was not Michael. That got me to the day. Then I looked at JOM for the day.

Sorry, it won't help you.

[hit and run]

Ah,yes...

September 15, 2006 at 12:43 PM

I remember it like it was just 4 years,1 month and 18 days ago.

[hit and run]

I'm not getting roped into doing this. I'm just not. But still...

---------------------
"America is great because she is good, and if America ever ceases to be good, America will cease to be great." Haven't got my De Tocqueville near at hand, but it seems to me that when the young Frenchman made that observation some 170 years ago, he pretty much hit the Goddam bulls-eye.

Posted by: Daddy | http://justoneminute.typepad.com/main/2005/10/about_the_dems.html?cid=10106472#comment-6a00d83451b2aa69e200d8345aa77b53ef>October 08, 2005 at 04:43 AM

[Dave (in MA)]

Google tells me that mine was in http://justoneminute.typepad.com/main/2006/08/the_secret_hold.html>http://justoneminute.typepad.com/
main/2006/08/the_secret_hold.html at 02:39 AM using my Al Qaeda name.

[centralcal]

hit, I won't ask you to do the work, but could you give me a idea what search string to use?

I was like daddy - came here during Libby days, read comments, was terrified to comment myself, had no idea what "name" to use, etc. etc. I think my first comment might have been a question to Clarice (or, maybe Jane) which she graciously answered. Been here - addicted - ever since.

[centralcal]

Dave - your Al Qaeda name? Were you Abu Al Poopypants???? lol.

[Captain Hate]

I believe I came here in the early summer of 2008 and I think my first comment was badmouthing a troll.

[narciso]

Beinart is showing why they pay him well enough to be cover his starbucks tab

[hit and run]

I don't necessarily trust google's results. there have been a great number of times I have tried finding an old comment -- knowing an exact phrase to look for -- but google refuses to fetch it for me. Bad google.

So -- that's the first comment by Daddy that appears in google -- but who knows if it is right.

Centralcal -- when you google there are options on the left side under "Show Search Tools". Open that up and choose Custom Range and then put in dates that correspond to when you think you started posting.

Here's what I get for yours...again,no idea if that's even close to when you started,but it's the best that google has:

---------------------
You know, Clarice, why does the NYT need a November surprise anyway? There is this really big, tsunami-sized Democrat "wave" coming in this election.

Don't they have absolute faith in their own polls?

Posted by: centralcal | http://justoneminute.typepad.com/main/2006/11/how_to_build_a_.html?cid=24831640#comment-6a00d83451b2aa69e200d834f9a60b69e2>November 02, 2006 at 11:40 PM

[Elliott]

That's a cool idea.

It has certainly taken this thread in a new direction.

[Dave (in MA)]

centralcal, yes.

[centralcal]

Thanks Hit! That might be my first comment, who knows?

But, if it was, I am a day late in saying HAPPY JOM ANNIVERSARY TO ME. HAPPY JOM ANNIVERSARY TO ME.

HAPPY ANNIVERSARY, HAPPY ANNIVERSARY, HAPPY ANNIVERSARY TO ME.

[Clarice]

Heh, There's no way you can find mine, can you? I, too, am sure i was during Libby, but who knows?

[Porchlight]

The problem for me is that it'll point to a 2005 thread (the year I think I started posting) but when I go there (using Cached to highlight my name), the only Porchlight appearance is in the (very) recent comments on the side.

[Ignatz Ratzkywatzky]

--Haven't got my De Tocqueville near at hand, but it seems to me that when the young Frenchman made that observation some 170 years ago...--

I know this question is a little over five years late daddy, but isn't that one of those comments it turns out nobody (or at least not the person it's attributed to) ever said?

[Carol Herman]

As soon as John Kerry's loss was noted by Dubya, he booted Cheney in his behind; and elevated Condi Rice.

Sure, I remember all the "talk" of Condi Rice becoming the first female and first black President. But, wow, did she disappoint!

Meanwhile, the entire ten years of inflating the bubble, from 2001 to 2009, all really ended up on Dubya's failures. Since he had to be an economic maroon not to notice the ponzi schemes ... which went by the name of "mortgage bonds" ... that weren't even based on actually home sales.

[Frau Kaffeetante]

I couldn't find anything of mine since Umlauts are currently bad net-karma, but! ...I found some wonderful stuff with riffs on Whole Foods Market and arugula:

"Things are so bad here we have to shop at Half Foods.

Posted by: PeterUK | April 16, 2008 at 03:11 PM

"I thought Arugula was a Roman Emperor."

When I was in college I dated this girl who could do the most amazing things with her arugula.

Posted by: Soylent Red | April 16, 2008 at 03:15 PM
Daddy was a wicked part of this pre-FLOTUS Victory Garden gaiety.

[Frau Kaffeetante]

A woman I taught school with has moved back home to Cincinnati and is still receiving ballots by mail here in CA. She has been gone for six-seven years. My husband is now laughingly wondering if he should vote for her. She is a Republican but supported PBS and NPR. Nobody is perfect.

[cathyf]

Well this is sort of creepy. I was sure I came here after Katrina because the idjits at LGF jumped the shark then and i couldn't take the stupidity. Except I found this

Gee, if that's what having everybody "beholden" to you looks like, how does it look any different to be completely powerless?

cathy :-)

Posted by: cathyf | August 24, 2005 at 02:05 PM

Five days before Katrina made landfall in NOLA. I musta come here for Able Danger and stayed for the party!

[daddy]

Even way back when JMH was prescient:

"What, not live blogging the election? ;-)

Posted by: JM Hanes | October 30, 2004 at 11:23 PM"

[Janet]

There was a mixed metaphor conversation going on on May 27,2009. This from Cecil Turner, "It suggests, well, that maybe she's not the sharpest bulb in the deck." and "In other words: you guys buttered your bread, now lie in it."

after the conversation was over, I chimed in with "Okay here's a mixed metaphor..."In the stitch of an eye""

I think that was my first post. I lurked here all during the Libby trial...never said anything, took notes, wrote down quotes by you guys....& then THAT was when I just had to post.?????? Doesn't even make any sense!
Off topic & not making much sense....not much has changed!

[daddy]

A bunch of Cecil sightings in December 2003...

Looks like I got my work cut out tonight.

[rse]

I'm a latecomer.

Summer 2008 I was researching a controversial ethnic, social justice math curriculum and recognized Bill Ayers' from the Weathermen days.

The search for what else Ayers was up to pulled in a post on this blog.

[JM Hanes]

I know this was one of my early posts. I remember that one specifically, because I rather tentatively linked to a Quasiblog entry on the politics of Kyoto. Cecil, who was a respected regular, was kind enough to assure me that it was a perfectly acceptable practice -- before he disagreed with me. I do remember lurking for awhile before I screwed up the courage to post any sort of comment at all.

I'm almost positive that was back before TM had the blog redesigned, although the archived posts show up in the present format. If someone can figure out when the changeover took place, it might help people date their own first dives into the pool.

Per daddy's find above, it looks like it didn't take very long to get comfortable back then either. :-)

[JM Hanes]

daddy:

" I know for me that I was so nervous in the early days about posting anything that it was almost agonizing to hit "Post"."

I remember talking to you about how to post a link. :-)

[narciso]

I think one of my first comments was here; about how Agee was basically cribbing from another source;

http://justoneminute.typepad.com/main/2003/09/valerie_plame_w_2.html

[JM Hanes]

Now that's vintage narciso! :-)

[Frau Kaffeetante]

narciso, that was real poetry.

I lurked here for a long time and could not believe there was a *group* of people who felt as I did about Libby, Armitage, Fitzgerald and the Plame/Wilson bunch. I had collected information to prove to myself that the media was holding back information. I still have a hard copy of a leftist African news report, in French, making light of Wilson's alleged research trip to Niger. So, it felt really comfortable here among devoted Libby supporters.

[Ralph L]

The Libby trial was in January 2007. I had to look it up--seems like it was earlier. I started commenting about half way through it, after 2.5 years of just reading various blogs and forums, none of them religiously, rarely looking at comments here or anywhere.

Once I lost my comment virginity here, it's been verbal promiscuity ever since.

[Patty's been looking for love in all the wrong places.]

Any chance this House can find Eckenrode?
==================

[Took the shoes; find your own damn way home.]

I scratched every brick of the Yellow Cake road, looking for the real light home. It seems that tapping my heels and forefingers works better then anythin'.
===========

[Jane (sit on the couch or save your country)]

You know what is funny. This is probably the most receptive and welcoming blog anywhere of new commenters, yet everyone has so much trepidation jumping in.

Perhaps that is how it should be.

[Sue]

Well, I'd like to say I was quiet for a while, waiting to get me toes wet before jumping in, but I can't. I found JOM either right before or right after the indictment of Libby was announced and started yakking immediately.