The NY Times reports on Eric Holder's big idea:
Detainee Acquitted on Most Counts in ’98 Bombings
The first former Guantánamo detainee to be tried in a civilian court was acquitted on Wednesday of all but one of more than 280 charges of conspiracy and murder in the 1998 terrorist bombings of the United States Embassies in Nairobi, Kenya, and Dar es Salaam, Tanzania.
The case has been seen as a test of President Obama’s goal of trying detainees in federal court whenever feasible, and the result may again fuel debate over whether civilian courts are appropriate for trying terrorists.
The defendant, Ahmed Khalfan Ghailani, 36, was convicted of one count of conspiracy to destroy government buildings and property. He was acquitted of six counts of conspiracy, including conspiring to kill Americans and use weapons of mass destruction.
When the judge’s clerk asked how the jury found on counts 11 to 223, which were all counts of murder, the jury foreman replied, “Not guilty.”
Mr. Ghailani faces a sentence of 20 years to life in prison.
"Mr. Ghailani faces a sentence of 20 years to life in prison."
Is there a problem?
Posted by: Tea=Bag, Smegma is your name | November 17, 2010 at 08:03 PM
Oooh, Oxycontin and Scotch night.
And I forgot to bring gifts.
Posted by: Melinda Romanoff | November 17, 2010 at 08:13 PM
This is just disgusting.
Posted by: Terrye | November 17, 2010 at 08:17 PM
Oxycontin and Scotch, and if the IP address is from MA, both can be paid for with Zeituni Bucks.
Posted by: Dave (in MA) | November 17, 2010 at 08:20 PM
referring to previous post.
Posted by: Melinda Romanoff | November 17, 2010 at 08:29 PM
This was almost inevitable once the judge ruled that under normal Federal law, evidence obtained from "torture" was inadmissable. What puzzles me was why the prosecutors gave in on the "torture" issue--they assumed for purposes of the ruling that he was indeed tortured. They could have presented evidence that he wasn't, but they didn't.
This issue would also have come up in a military tribunal proceeding, but the secrecy permitted by a military judge would have allowed the prosecution to submit all the evidence they wanted without having to worry about tipping off the bad guys about methods and sources.
Posted by: Rex | November 17, 2010 at 08:29 PM
Why aren't the Tea-Bag Newbies in Congress Clamoring to be on the Appropriations Committee?
Is there a problem?
Posted by: Tea=Bag, Smegma is your name | November 17, 2010 at 08:38 PM
"gifts."
Rasputin says you are a daily gift, Romanov
Posted by: Tea=Bag, Smegma is your name | November 17, 2010 at 08:40 PM
File under Obama and Holder are incompetent. Aren't we in the area of judicial notice of that fact?
Percocet and merlot.
Posted by: MarkO | November 17, 2010 at 08:54 PM
Look at the silver lining: these incompetent simpletons will never pull this dumb stunt again.
And when a new president takes office in 2013 he can promptly direct that KSM be tried to a military court in Guantanamo, after which the executioner can rid the earth of his shadow.
In a just world he would be buried wrapped in bacon.
Posted by: Danube of Thought | November 17, 2010 at 09:01 PM
What an absolute disgrace.
First of all this guy will probably appeal his sentencing so he might get out way sooner than 20 years from now. Complete disaster courtesy the human wrecking ball, Obama.
Posted by: peter | November 17, 2010 at 09:02 PM
.
"In a just world he would be buried wrapped in bacon."
Ummmmmmmmmmmm.
I loves me some bacon.
Posted by: Dubya | November 17, 2010 at 09:03 PM
Well, Soros wants a different President, Representative Pelosi (with an 8% positive approval rating) remains the 'face' of the Democrat minority and the EU (home of 'free' medical care) strides boldly towards disintegration and bankruptcy.
What else is left for dimwitted proglodytes other than Percocet, vodka and feces flinging?
Posted by: Rick Ballard | November 17, 2010 at 09:10 PM
Well, Soros wants a different President, Representative Pelosi (with an 8% positive approval rating) remains the 'face' of the Democrat minority and the EU (home of 'free' medical care) strides boldly towards disintegration and bankruptcy.
What else is left for dimwitted proglodytes other than Percocet, vodka and feces flinging?
Posted by: Rick Ballard | November 17, 2010 at 09:10 PM
Rex, As I recall it wasn't because of "torture" which Ghailani never established, The judge couldn't allow the evidence in because of the "fruits of the poisonous tree" doctrine which precludes the govt from using evidence which was obtained from a confession which was not taken under very rigid circumstances designed to prevent people in custody from self-incrimination.
Posted by: Clarice | November 17, 2010 at 09:14 PM
"What else is left for dimwitted proglodytes other than Percocet, vodka and feces flinging?"
If you are watching Tea-baggers hang themselves on their own Petards of Governance,
mind-altering substances are unnecessary.
Posted by: Dubya | November 17, 2010 at 09:20 PM
Meth and Nighttrain.
Hi Cleo! You are early this week! Must be a particularly bad one for Barry.
Posted by: Porchlight | November 17, 2010 at 09:21 PM
Steadman Shabazz Holder should've assigned the case to one of the voices screaming incoherently in the troll's otherwise empty head. It couldn't have prosecuted it any more ineptly.
Posted by: Captain Hate | November 17, 2010 at 09:26 PM
"You are early this week! Must be a particularly bad one for Barry."
Yes, Pooch. It's bad week for everyone.
And thanks for your concern. I'm going to try to be here early more often.
Posted by: Dubya | November 17, 2010 at 09:26 PM
Porch, have you listened to Girl Talk yet?
Posted by: Captain Hate | November 17, 2010 at 09:29 PM
Pooch is Topsecretk9.
Posted by: glasater | November 17, 2010 at 09:31 PM
"Pooch is Topsecretk9."
A dog by any other name will smell the same.
Posted by: Dubya | November 17, 2010 at 09:33 PM
I have a hard time getting the point of an expensive civilian trail when the judge and prosecutor have made clear at the outset that if the defendant is acquitted (or in the case of KSM never even tried) he can still be held in custody indefinitely.
Aside from moral preening, what is the point of such obvious show trials?
Posted by: Clarice | November 17, 2010 at 09:38 PM
Dunno about that governance bit, dimwit. Ryan teamed up with Alice Rivlin (OMB Director for Clinton) on the deficit commission and came up with a bi-partisan proposal on Medicare and Medicaid. It probably won't provide dignity to an improvident lackwit like you but it may cover your condition (if there's a mental health component).
Posted by: Rick Ballard | November 17, 2010 at 09:41 PM
Rick-
He's just upset about the return on his investment. Obama's failure at the NATO and EU summits this weekend might make the boss happy.
Posted by: RichatUF | November 17, 2010 at 09:43 PM
clarice-
The point is Amoral preening. As Rick has so kindly pointed out, it's the logic of Saint-Simon, which means none what so ever.
Posted by: Melinda Romanoff | November 17, 2010 at 09:50 PM
Yay! More Cleo! Love, love love when he stops by, as it means the Barry-ometer is plunging.
Posted by: Porchlight | November 17, 2010 at 09:56 PM
"as it means the Barry-ometer is plunging."
Whatever purges your anal glands, Pooch.
Posted by: Dubya | November 17, 2010 at 10:08 PM
Unless you were hell bent for election to prove that "lawfare" was the way to go, you could have seen the judge's rulings coming--with the resulting effect on the trial.
In a just world this bozo would be incarcerated in the general population in one of the Huntsville TX prisons.
I think Obama and Holder have now learned that they are not going to try Khalid Sheik Muhammed in a civilian courthouse in New York City. But you know that ignorance can be cured and stupid is forever, so maybe they didn't learn their lesson from this fiasco.
Posted by: Comanche Voter | November 17, 2010 at 10:09 PM
Rich,
He's never been other than self interested scum - this may be his blow off to all the progs dumb enough to fall for his gaff. Demographics and the world wide OPM crop failure are running hard against the Benthamite BS which our elite credentialed moron political class has been peddling for over a hundred years.
The Austrian refusal to pay for any more of The Big Fat Greek Bailout is a pretty clear signal that Club Med is very close to going under. Ireland may get papered over for the moment but Spain and Portugal are right behind - and Merkel cannot agree to go much further and still keep her job.
Posted by: Rick Ballard | November 17, 2010 at 10:12 PM
Rich,
He's never been other than self interested scum - this may be his blow off to all the progs dumb enough to fall for his gaff. Demographics and the world wide OPM crop failure are running hard against the Benthamite BS which our elite credentialed moron political class has been peddling for over a hundred years.
The Austrian refusal to pay for any more of The Big Fat Greek Bailout is a pretty clear signal that Club Med is very close to going under. Ireland may get papered over for the moment but Spain and Portugal are right behind - and Merkel cannot agree to go much further and still keep her job.
Posted by: Rick Ballard | November 17, 2010 at 10:12 PM
Well keying off the previous thread, someone pointed out, a while back that 'No Miranda rights be given to Terrorists'. I don't know could it be that they thought the Tanzania
and Kenya bombings were too remote in their
experience, what other evidence do you need
Posted by: narciso | November 17, 2010 at 10:16 PM
Eric Holder must go. More meditations. LUN
Posted by: matt | November 17, 2010 at 10:25 PM
Obama just knew better than everybody else. Hell, he'd been law review president and a community organizer, hadn't he?
So he knew we needed to close Gitmo, and he ordered it to be done in a year. He knew we needed a stimulus--and fast!--or unemployment might soar above 8%. He knew the Cambridge police acted stupidly. He knew that if you liked your current plan you could keep it. He knew that the projects were shovel-ready. He knew that the IOC would be so dazzled they'd award the Olympics to Chicago.
And he knew we didn't need military commissions; we could try and convict these beasts in federal court.
Posted by: Danube of Thought | November 17, 2010 at 10:28 PM
Well, Matt, one of the AG;s most important jobs is to keep his boss from making stupid legal moves, but if the AG is as foolish as the boss..............
Posted by: Clarice | November 17, 2010 at 10:29 PM
Rick and Rich-
The contraction generated by the coming Chinese forced stimulus withdrawals just might have an impact on everything being repriced.
This piece opened a door for me, that I didn't realize was there.
More later.
G'night all.
Posted by: Melinda Romanoff | November 17, 2010 at 10:29 PM
DoT, I like the NYT article suggesting that the KSM trial might still be a go...
My sharpened pike business looks better every day.
Posted by: Clarice | November 17, 2010 at 10:41 PM
Don't go, Mel! Explain what it means!
Posted by: BobDenver | November 17, 2010 at 10:47 PM
"what is the point of such obvious show trials?"
I guess it was to show how stupid Obama and Holder are. It worked.
He has set back at least 50 years the prospects of other minority presidential prospects. Talk about one and done.
Posted by: MarkO | November 17, 2010 at 10:51 PM
That's like the sell order that the Duke Bros should have entertaining, if they had the right copy of the crops report
Posted by: narciso | November 17, 2010 at 10:55 PM
For years I told people that if they found themselves in criminal jeopardy they should engage an atty who went to a place like Rutgers, not Harvard, Yale or Columbia.
QED in that, Mark.
Posted by: Clarice | November 17, 2010 at 10:56 PM
BobDenver,
Here's the CNBC interpretation. The bit about the Chinese instituting price controls is interesting but I haven't seen any confirmation.
Posted by: Rick Ballard | November 17, 2010 at 11:28 PM
Clarice,
It wasn't a confession per se; what Ghailani did was to cough up info which led to another witness. The circumstances of the interrogation were claimed to be torture, which would make the evidence (the witness and his statements) fruit of the poisonous tree. When the issue was raised before the judge, the prosecutor agreed, only for purposes of the motion, that Ghailani was indeed subjected to a torturous, coercive interrogation. At that point, the judge's hands were tied.
This issue would not have come up, or the motion would have been denied, if this had been a military tribunal instead of a regular trial.
Posted by: Rex | November 17, 2010 at 11:33 PM
BobDenver-
A trap door? Don't want to take Mel's thunder, but this is what I got out of it:
The world is setting up for a balance of payments crisis in both the developing and developed world, not too dissimiliar to the Asian Financial Crisis, though on a much grander scale. China has a high level of financial repression (the "This Time is Different" definition) and that its stimulus has driven domestic inflation. The Chinese stimulus program has also driven the boom in commodities prices and emerging markets since early 09. When China scales back its stimulus, it will reduce demand for commodities globally, which will reduce trade, and then growth, globally.
In Europe and Asia, this is problematic because they are generally export lead economies (or more specifically, Germany is an export lead economy and the most healthy in Europe and the EU is in the middle of a banking crisis and sovereign crisis crimping consumer spending and business confidence {I'd also say political stability but that looks to be down the road a bit}. China is an export lead developing country but they don't have the institutions to deal with the coming political problems that economic weakness will expose or a level of domestic demand that could tie them over while the rest of the world works out its problems. Both are dependent on US consumer spending and debt markets and both of those are impaired to varying degrees).
Or shorter: May we live in interesting times.
Posted by: RichatUF | November 17, 2010 at 11:34 PM
Somebody tell me when I should put everything in gold. Bury it in the back yard, load up on high-end booze, fine wine and fine food, and sit around with a .pre-'64 Winchester Model 70 in 30-'06 across my lap watching the NFL in Hi-Def.
I'm ready.
Posted by: Danube of Thought | November 17, 2010 at 11:48 PM
Rich,
The Chinese are also not taking much comfort from Uncle Ben's willingness to print up whatever amount he feels necessary. They made moves predicated upon a "normal" business recession and are noticing the same thing that Cisco just reported - the new orders aren't there. AFSCME members are still being paid though - I'm sure that's a consolation.
Posted by: Rick Ballard | November 17, 2010 at 11:53 PM
Not fair DOT--you've got the Navy surrounding you. :-)
Posted by: glasater | November 18, 2010 at 12:07 AM
Heh, do it before the end of the year, DoT. Someone mentioned that hidden in one of those 1001 page-laws, was it Obamacare? is an item that in 2011 all gold purchases by Americans will be reported to the govt or some such thing.
Posted by: BR | November 18, 2010 at 12:11 AM
Typo, I meant Obamascared.
And the Cancun Climate Clowns say: "Shhhhhh."
Posted by: BR | November 18, 2010 at 12:13 AM
I resent that the Cancun Climate Crims are going on a junket to one of my future vacation spots. I don't want them to foul up the air there. Ha, wouldn't it be funny if a notice went out to all the 60-some participants that the Cancun Conference is Cancelled. No one wants to host them anymore. It's bad for the tourism business.
Posted by: BR | November 18, 2010 at 12:22 AM
back from the business dinner I was heading to when I wrote the blog. Bottom line is that Ghailani gave up the name of Abedi, the legal explosives dealer in Tanzania, I believe, who sold him the explosives.
There were no threats that we know of the Abedi, nor was he a suspect. The only issue was that Ghailani gave up the name.
Therefore, the judge in the case declared the testimony inadmissible. Under civil rules, this may be a wise decision, but the key evidence linking the terrorist with the act of terrorism was thus inadmissible, leading to an outright acquittal when in fact the defendant had confessed.
What part of Eric Holder should be sent to Guantanamo as a "guest" don't we understand?
Posted by: matt | November 18, 2010 at 12:43 AM
DoT, c'mon up 80 miles or so and I'll make the martinis and 'splain the precious metals market. Gold, silver and lead.
Posted by: matt | November 18, 2010 at 12:46 AM
So ... are we talking Global Depression?
Posted by: BobDenver | November 18, 2010 at 02:14 AM
Here is a PDF of Judge Kaplan's Oct. 6th Order. I didn't try to find his earlier order, in which the court
I did try, but couldn't locate the redacted "supplemental opinion containing the Court's findings of fact and conclusions of law," which I assume remained classified in full. I also assume that's why the gov. "respectfully" disagreed with the order, but declined to appeal.I do remember being pretty shocked by the centerpiece of Kaplan's 3-page public Order [Italics mine]:
Here is footnote [1]:
Did the government assume they had already resolved the coercion issue to advantage in the Judge's earlier ruling? Their subsequent decision to let the charge of torture hang fire suggests they knew -- probably from the outset -- that the details of Ghailani's incarceration (whether or not it included torture) were so sensitive that they could never be aired in court.
IIRC, Andy McCarthy believed that the prosecutors must have had reason to believe they could win a conviction without Abebe's testimony. It looks a lot more likely to me now that Holder's DoJ probably ordered them to proceed despite what turned out to be a terminal weakness in their case, and then sat back just hoping for a miracle. Or maybe Holder presumed, as Obama apparently did, that a jury of New Yorkers would never let Ghailani off the hook.
Posted by: JM Hanes | November 18, 2010 at 03:02 AM
Man, these avatars squeeze the hell out of block quotes.
Posted by: JM Hanes | November 18, 2010 at 03:03 AM
Did the government's stipulation as to Ghailani's assertions for the purposes of this specific ruling mean that the torture issue was consequently deemed germane to the jury trial itself?
Posted by: JM Hanes | November 18, 2010 at 03:13 AM
One of the great things about the narcisolator is its ability to suppress the avatars.
Posted by: Extraneus | November 18, 2010 at 06:01 AM
How did they think they would come to another result under that circumstance, the Govt effectively 'refudiating' the testimony of it's corroborating witness, 'that word you are using,' had to yield a different result
Posted by: narciso | November 18, 2010 at 06:17 AM
I don't know if it is the narcisolator or Firefox, but I have no avatars here.
Nothing from what I have read concerning the fallout from this trial convinces me that DOJ /Holder have learned anything from this farce.
Posted by: Pagar | November 18, 2010 at 06:43 AM
DOT, now.
Posted by: peter | November 18, 2010 at 06:44 AM
I don't know if it is the narcisolator or Firefox, but I have no avatars here.
Nothing from what I have read concerning the fallout from this trial convinces me that DOJ /Holder have learned anything from this farce.
Posted by: Pagar | November 18, 2010 at 06:45 AM
I read a wall street journal piece on Alice Rivlin about 15 years ago.
Came off as a nasty chain smoking apparatchik kinda bitch to me.
Kinda like Christiane Ammanpour with a jersey/New York (How the hell do I know) accent.
Posted by: Donald | November 18, 2010 at 07:02 AM
http://www.tvguide.com/tvshows/wiseguy-1988/episode-20-season-1/dirty-little-wars/205557
Ok, it's Isle Pavot. You tell me that's not Barak Obama.
Posted by: Donald | November 18, 2010 at 07:06 AM
http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/holder-strikes-out-in-first-gitmo-civilian-trial/>Holder strikes Out
JMH I think originally they thought the judge would put his fingers on the scale and then later that the jury would. Projection, I think.Neither he nor his boss can imagine honest people following the law.
Posted by: Clarice | November 18, 2010 at 07:45 AM
Clear to Clarice, then. Clear to Holder, now.
============
Posted by: Well, clear to someone at Justice, anyway. | November 18, 2010 at 07:55 AM
Insty is lauching Clarice's Holder piece.
Posted by: DebinNC | November 18, 2010 at 08:02 AM
I think the not-so-subtle message of holding a trial for a murder that you have already, in your kingly way, declared guilty, dangerous and you are intending to permanently incarcerate him, is to make clear that you are above the law and the USA is now ruled by a dictator. How else to explain to anyone, citizen of this country or enemy, that king obama will be the final authority on everything?
Posted by: J | November 18, 2010 at 08:13 AM
I like the avatars because they allow me to recognize when cleo has morphed so I can add a new name to the narcisolator.
Posted by: sbw | November 18, 2010 at 08:14 AM
I submit that the jury DID put a finger on the scale on behalf of the prosecution. They picked a non-murder charge and gave it a guilty verdict so the scumbag wouldn't go free. But they refused to do more, in view of the lack of evidence and the resulting shambles that was the government's case.
Posted by: BobDenver | November 18, 2010 at 08:47 AM
Barry O will shortly announce that no further US Disrtrict Court trials for terrorists will proceed; all AQ detainees will remain at Gitmo as "guests" of the US Gov't pending review of US and International law. Eric Holder resigns on 'principle.' Holder meet bus.
Posted by: NK | November 18, 2010 at 08:59 AM
PS: I agree with BobDenver, the gov't 's case for murder was a joke. The gov't was lucky to get the conspiracy conviction for a man who is obviously guilty, but the gov't couldn't prove it beyond a reasonable doubt in a Federal Court trial. Holder, his whole left-wing justice dept crew and barry o. are a collective joke. The commenters at JOM have made that case for 20 months. I think the verdict is now in that we have been right all along.
Posted by: NK | November 18, 2010 at 09:06 AM
I like your style, NK!
Posted by: BR | November 18, 2010 at 09:10 AM
I see him out before two years.
Posted by: BR | November 18, 2010 at 09:18 AM
Watching this trail, Ted Mack has told Entertainment Tonight that he is thinking about making a comeback.
Posted by: Jack is Back! | November 18, 2010 at 09:32 AM
Eric Holder resigns on 'principle.' Holder meet bus.
I don't see this happening. Throughout all the gaffes of the Clinton/Reno DOJ, Steadman Shabazz remained in place despite being hip deep in nearly all of them. Plus he's so completely in tune with Toonces on everything, including a stunning illiteracy about legal matters, that it would be like Bammy himself resigning.
Posted by: Captain Hate | November 18, 2010 at 09:44 AM
Went to go read Clarice's piece at PJM, but the site seems to be down.
Posted by: Porchlight | November 18, 2010 at 09:52 AM
It is down, porch. Check your gmail and you'll find my copy.
Posted by: Clarice | November 18, 2010 at 09:56 AM
Thanks, Clarice! Got it.
Posted by: Porchlight | November 18, 2010 at 09:58 AM
it would be like Bammy himself resigning.
I'd settle for that.
Posted by: PD | November 18, 2010 at 10:01 AM
Y'know, way back when I seem to recall there were complaints about using civilian trials for unlawful combatants that went something like this:
- Rules of evidence are problematic in wartime, and available evidence may not work within rules designed to keep police from violating suspects' rights;
- Terrorists' lawyers can use federal proceedings as a megaphone for their propaganda, negating any PR value;
- Civilian juries tend to be unwilling to convict on military crimes; and,
- Military commissions are the proper venue for war crimes in any event.
Glad to see none of those came to pass. [/eyeroll]Nothing from what I have read concerning the fallout from this trial convinces me that DOJ /Holder have learned anything from this farce.
Concur that the learning curve appears to be flat. But the larger issue is that he shouldn't have been in charge of it in the first place: it's a military concern, not a legal one. And that brings the blame right back to the President's doorstep, where it belongs.
. . . if they had the right copy of the crops report.
Spot on. And it's more than a little funny that one of the security guards is providing "advice and consent."
Posted by: Cecil Turner | November 18, 2010 at 10:22 AM
You're doing a heckuva job, Holdie!
Posted by: Vince | November 18, 2010 at 10:54 AM
Hate-- you may be right. But Barry O has no loyalty to anyone. Holder is an ideological comrade, but so was Rev Wright, and barry O ran him over with the bus and backed up over him a second time. So, if Barry thinks it's in his interests to introduce Holder to the bus, there's a Greyhound express waiting for Holder.
Posted by: NK | November 18, 2010 at 11:45 AM
Is there a problem ?
Earmark ban - Done ...
Leadbetter II - spiked in the Senate ...
START treaty - will wait until 2011
Force a vote on NPR funding - soon ...
Nope ... No problem ...
Posted by: Jeff | November 18, 2010 at 12:43 PM
When you take up arms against another country, you give up your right not to be shot at!
Not to mention that we send our soldiers into battle precisely to violate enemy soldiers' "rights". I mean you are an infantryman, in the uniform of your country's armed forces, and you pop your head up out of the foxhole. The other side is gonna try to blow your head off, and that is precisely what they are supposed to be doing. You are a robbery suspect sticking up out of a foxhole, the police can't blow your head off unless you are doing something threatening!Posted by: cathyf | November 18, 2010 at 12:58 PM
Nope ... No problem ...
Yes, but we have at least six GOP squishes in the Senate on the DREAM act, per Malkin: McCain, Snowe, Collins, Hutchison, Brownback, Lemieux. And Lugar a sponsor and firm supporter.
I'm worried.
Posted by: Porchlight | November 18, 2010 at 02:26 PM
"Aside from moral preening, what is the point of such obvious show trials?"
It seems to be so people here can whinge about it. They certainly aren't interested in the result.
The guy got convicted and sentenced to 20 to life. This is somehow a problem while the non-civilian trials have been handing out sentences of up to a whole year. These were a-ok while we are told this is supposed to be an embarrassment.
Carry on about this as much as you like, but if your outrage is in line with the families of the men on trial for terrorism, you don't get to refer to anyone else as appeasing terrorists.
Oh my, can you imagine what we'd see from these hypocrites if Barry released 500 hundred Gitmo inmates without charge.
Posted by: Hal | November 18, 2010 at 03:27 PM
Hey Hal,
He murdered over 200 people.
So, 20 years seems a tad light, no?
Posted by: mockmook | November 18, 2010 at 09:36 PM
--The guy got convicted and sentenced to 20 to life.--
He's appealing it of course and only has to get lucky on one count to get off free as a bird.
Posted by: Ignatz | November 18, 2010 at 09:43 PM