How Dare These People Ask For Evidence And Documentation

As we celebrate the birth of Christ, the Times comments on the birth of a lesser man:

Hawaii’s Governor Takes On ‘Birthers’
By SHERYL GAY STOLBERG

HONOLULU — Gov. Neil Abercrombie of Hawaii, who befriended President Obama’s parents when they were university students here, has been in office for less than three weeks. But he is so incensed over “birthers” — the conspiracy theorists who assert that Mr. Obama was born in Kenya and was thus not eligible to become president — that he is seeking ways to change state policy to allow him to release additional proof that the president was born in Honolulu in 1961.

“It’s an insult to his mother and to his father, and I knew his mother and father; they were my friends, and I have an emotional interest in that,” Governor Abercrombie said in a telephone interview late Thursday. “It’s an emotional insult. It is disrespectful to the president; it is disrespectful to the office.”

Yeah, what kind of country are we living in when people won't trust some state bureaucrat?  Well, the governor is going to show them all right, by showing them just what they want!

“He’s a big boy; he can take sticks and stones. But there’s no reason on earth to have the memory of his parents insulted by people whose motivation is solely political,” Mr. Abercrombie said. “Let’s put this particular canard to rest.”

Naturally we deplore the racist use of the phrase "boy".  As to the seemingly obvious question - why doesn't Obama simply request and release these records? - well, the Times continues its own Don't Ask, Don't Tell policy.

They close with a rhetorical question from the governor:

"My thought is, rather than get into some kind of argument or play into that mentality, why not just simply try to authenticate this and let the facts speak for themselves?”

Why not indeed?  Darn those birthers for thinking Obama is hiding something just because he is hiding his records.

JUST SO YOU KNOW:

To recap my Official Editorial Position on the birther thing:

The state of Hawaii has a more extensive file documenting the circumstances of Obama's birth;

That file contains documentation sufficient to prompt the state to deliver a birth certificate, so presumably they are satisifed he was born in Hawaii;

State privacy laws prohibit the state from sharing that file with the public, but they would release it to Obama or any relative/trustee with a legitimate interest in his history;

Obama has not requested and released his file, a process I estimate would take a day (I assume the President would be accorded special treatment).

So, why is the most transparent administration in history so opaque on this minor point?  My official editorial position is that "Obama" is the most tightly controlled brand since Mickey Mouse (and is becoming synonomous with just that), so he is just saving this material (and his law firm billing records, and his college transcripts, and everything else) for his eventual eight-figure book deal.

My back-up guess is that the file includes something embarassing, such as a legal name change from "Barry" to "Barack" while a teenager.  The omission of that detail (if true) from "Dreams From My Father" might trigger some clucking.

And the long-shot back up to the back up is that the "proof" being accepted by the state of Hawaii is simply affidavits from his mother and maternal grandparents asserting he was born in Hawaii.  The obvious motivation would have been to document Barack (Barry?) as an American so that if the shotgun marriage didn't last a custody fight would play out in American courts.

Of course, in that long-shot scenario, those affidavits might be accurate, and the affiants have all passed away.  But I suspect such a revelation would prompt even the authors of this study to question the clarity and foundation of their faith in the circumstances of Obama's birth. 

 

 

Comments

[reader]

Is this the first recorded mention of the "original long-form birth certificate" by the Times?

[Rick Ballard]

"My back-up guess is that the file includes something embarassing, such as a legal name change from "Barry" to "Barack" while a teenager."

I agrree - except that it was "Barry Dunham" and the "Father ___?_____". Stanley was whipped off to Mercer Island because of the family surprise regarding the baby having a somewhat darker complexion than anticipated.

[NeoKong]

So who the hell do you have to be to have a legitimate interest in seeing the damn thing...?
The Pope ?

How about a governor ?
How about a Secretary of State ?
How about a Speaker of the House ?
How about an opponent for the White House ?
How about an average voter ?

[patch]

He was born in British Columbia; ask his aunt on his mother's side.

Merry Christmas!

[Boatbuilder]

Where would the NYT (or the fearless Abercrombie) stand on this issue if his last name were Bush? Romney? Palin? (Hell, maybe it is!) Would "you have to take our word for it, you ignorant racists" suffice?

Merry Christmas, TM. May this post generate mega-hits.

[Pagar]

"So who the hell do you have to be to have a legitimate interest in"

That is the thing that seems funny. I have no idea how often I have had to submit a birth certificate during my life, but it is a whole lot more than Obama has had to submit apparently. It almost seems like someone has went and create laws to allow Obama to hid every fact that other American citizens are required to produce under penalty of law. There seems to be no doubt that Obama has spent a large amount of someone's money to hid things about his life. How did this nation get to the point where we don't know any thing about the man who is the President?

[BB Key]

Far be it for me to question the motives of any politician and especially a liberal Democrat like the newly elected Gov. Abercrombie.....I predict no transparencey, no acess to the original documents but a 71 million dollar shake down of the One to bail out Hawaii with your tax money.

[Ric Locke]

My own speculation is that the registrar, having deep-seated memories of interacting with the British consulate when Hawai'i was still a territory, noted that young Barry's mother was a legal minor and his father was Kenyan -- and put young Barry down as a Commonwealth national.

It wouldn't affect his legal status; babies born in the United States are US citizens, whatever gets written in the blanks on a birth certificate. But boy, would it ignite a firestorm amongst the Birthers.

[Cecil Turner]

My OEP is that it ought to be a requirement. Of the three qualifications to be President, the birth certificate is the logical proof for two (35 years old and natural born citizen). And the idea that the proper procedure is for the candidate to convince the state Registrar, and then she convinces the rest of us, is ridiculous.

(And I suspect your back-up position is right: that there's something embarassing there . . . and we'll get a better idea what when and if Abercrombie releases part of the document.)

[Boatbuilder]

BB Key--I suspect that you are right about the "shakedown" angle-explains why a presumptive supporter of Obama (with access to the records) would even bring the issue up.

[Porchlight]

Rick reminded me of something that has never really been explained, which is Stanley Ann's traveling to Mercer Island, alone with the baby, less than a month after the birth. That is extremely strange, even dangerous, considering her youth and lack of knowledge of proper childcare (evidenced by her friend explaining how Ann had to be shown how to change a diaper).

[Neil Bush]

This might be one of the greatest cons in history. Just because he posted his birth certificate on-line,the local paper has a notice of birth published and the hospital administration has verified the certificate that does not mean its over. Just think about it. B. Obama has fooled the entire state of Illinois, Harvard College, the U.S. Sate Department(to get his passport),the Secret Service, the CIA and the National Security Administration ( military intelligence). It makes you wonder how many of these super mole socialist Kenyan anti-colonialists there are in the country.

JEB for 2012.

[Gmax]

A brand synonymous with Mickey Mouse. TM you are in rare form. Merry Christmas!

[Rob Crawford]

“It’s an emotional insult. It is disrespectful to the president; it is disrespectful to the office.”

Apparently, ignoring the Constitutional requirements for the office is not "disrespectful". It's amazing how the political class has adopted the attitudes of hereditary nobility.

[narciso]

Abercrombie is a serious moonbat, who may have
agita, as Clarice might say, over the betrayal
of progressive principles, as this LUN indicates

[narciso]

One figures his mother had to present his birth certificate, at least twice, once when
he signed up for school, another when she
requested a passport for him, there would be copies of said document, or a log with the number that would match the COLB

[Porchlight]

OT,

Vote for Clarice!

[Jane (get off the couch - come save the country)]

My mother never showed a passport for me to go to school. I just got on the bus and went.

[narciso]

Seeing as he seems to have started his schooling in Indonesia, the latter would have been her first step, the wiki is sloppy, it has Suharto's takeover as 1967, not 1965, the
"Year of Living Dangerously

[His family told lies to themselves.]

My guess? Obama heself don't know de Troot.
==========

[RogerCfromSD]

I couldn't care less what some elected fool thinks about the issue. His parents were anti-American, and so, not worthy of deference in my mind.

I want to see the reigning idiot's birth certificate. Plain and simple.

Show it and end this carnival act.

[Andrew X]

It's been said that there was a birth announcement in a Honolulu newspaper, so that kinda settles it for me.

But why withold the certificate?

I wonder if there is reasoning that the "birthers' are enough of an Alinsky'd, targeted, framed, and are, yes, a bit nutty enough of a crew that it serves Obama well to have them around. They are not gaining much traction, but they do rally Obama supporters, and the paperwork "card" may be being held to be played at the time of maximum inpact of an 'in-your-face' shot to Obama opposition.

This is the only real explanation I can fathom for how this scenario seems to be playing out.

[He's one crazee father mocker.]

Naw, Andrew, his psychosis runs much deeper than that. What other famous historical figure had an ambiguity for a Father?
=============

[narciso]

It does illuminate some details, that have been brushed over, his father abandons him
for reasons unclear to him, then his mother
takes him around the world to Indonesia, enrolls him in a school in a strange military dictatorship, where his stepfather, seemed to have some position of authority

[Janet]

The fact that we have to stitch together bits of info about the life of our President is proof of how sketchy the whole story is.
Also the mocking & name calling of the people that look into his background...what's up with that?
All the unanswered questions about Obama's past mostly discredit the MFM.

[Clarice]

Interesting, narciso. Of course, if he was in fact good friends with Obama's parents one would expect he'd be a fruitloop.

[Ignatz]

--“He’s a big boy; he can take sticks and stones. But there’s no reason on earth to have the memory of his parents insulted by people whose motivation is solely political,” Mr. Abercrombie said. “Let’s put this particular canard to rest.”--

If it's all the way Barry has told or was told the story, how is it disrespectful to him or them? Releasing everything would confirm everything they've said and confirm his and their wonderfulness.
Is there a better way to put the entire thing to rest than releasing all of the docs?
Is there a worse way then continued opacity?

[Richard Aubrey]

Now, suppose it turns out that Obama was not actually eligible for POTUS.
What do we think we'd hear from the folks sneering at "birthers"?
"So? Constitution, schmonstitution. We won. Shove it, wingnuts. What are you gonna do about it?"

[MarkO]

Wait, wait. Don't you see? It would be too much information.

Merry Christmas.

[btims]

It shows you that whomever the news media/show business (one in the same?) decide to support, that politician is protected and gold plated.

The nation and the world knows Sarah Palin's grades in 3rd grade elementary school but they don't know who Hussein bin Obama's father was - a mooooslim and a communist official with the govt. of Kenya.

They don't know that Hussein bin Obama was a memeber of a small socialist party in Chicago as late as around 1990.

Whomever the media backs is "made" to become a winner.

[danishova]

Yep, Neil Abercrombie did indeed know Obama's parents. Not sure that this is something he is wise to call attention to, but I welcome the opportunity to discuss their relationship.

[Threadkiller]

TM, a "birther" thread? For my Christmas present?? You shouldn’t have. Thank You!

">http://www.fightthesmears.com/articles/5/birthcertificate"> Fight the Smears(formerly an Obama site, during the campaign)

“When Barack Obama Jr. was born on Aug. 4,1961, in Honolulu, Kenya was a British colony, still part of the United Kingdom’s dwindling empire. As a Kenyan native, Barack Obama Sr. was a British subject whose citizenship status was governed by The British Nationality Act of 1948. That same act governed the status of Obama Sr.‘s children. Since Sen. Obama has neither renounced his U.S. citizenship nor sworn an oath of allegiance to Kenya, his Kenyan citizenship automatically expired on Aug. 4,1982.”

He was born a British subject.

I will dice the quote up a little to see if this helps:

“When Candidate for President. was born on Insert Year in The United States, Iran was a different country with different laws. As an Iranian native, Candidate for President Sr. was anIranian subject whose citizenship status was governed by Iran. That same act governed the status of Candidate for President Sr.‘s children.

Since Candidate for President has neither renounced his U.S. citizenship nor sworn an oath of allegiance to Iran, his Iranian citizenship automatically expired after it was bestowed upon him at birth.”

Quit guessing TM. Anchor Babies, from Mexico, keep their Mexican Citizenship as a condition of their birth. People, like Mark Levin bark about that issue. Is this any different?

And that is my present to you. Merry Christmas!!

Iggy:
--"Is there a better way to put the entire thing to rest than releasing all of the docs?"--

He is waiting for the right moment. When the country accept the birth certificate of a self admitted dual citizen, how do we stop the next N.Korean/American from becoming Prez?

[Me]

Shorter TMag.

I'm not a birther mind you, I'm reasonable.

But hey, just saying....

Hilarious! It it possible that Bush semen causes dementia?

[peter]

Curious that the Times discusses the birth of the Messiah on Christmas day.

[Porchlight]

Abercrombie, if he can be believed, appears to have spent far more time with Obama's father than the latter spent with his son. Poor Barry. I honestly do feel sorry for him on that point; his childhood must have been pretty miserable.

[Porchlight]

P.s. Why didn't Abercrombie speak out before on this perceived "insult" and his friendship with the Obamas? I agree with those who think the timing is a little odd.

[Threadkiller]

The timing is a diversion, as always. The accusers never drop the birther bomb anymore; it is the topic of the accused.

Keep guessing.

[narciso]

From the LUN, ;

Abercrombie was not only a partner with Inouye in obtaining military spending, he was committed to the team concept that guides the state's small, four-member congressional delegation on Hawaii issues.

He was able to get a native Hawaiian federal recognition bill through the House three times in the past decade. The bill, which would recognize Hawaiians as an indigenous people similar to American Indians and Alaska Natives, would allow Hawaiians to form their own government. The bill remains stalled in the Senate.

Abercrombie was a member of the progressive caucus, the House's most liberal wing, and he was an advocate for issues such as equal pay for women and civil rights for gays.
But he was not always in lock step with liberals. He called for limited offshore oil and natural gas drilling to help generate revenue to develop alternative energy. He backed the end of the estate tax because of its potential financial impact on family-owned businesses.

[Captain Hate]

It it possible that Bush semen causes dementia?

Is that a confession because your structure of a question is a bit demented?

So this Abercrombie douche is bragging about having as a friend a drunk POS who wanted nothing to do with his son? Quite a testimonial.

[narciso]

Another curious detail, Abercrombie (sans Fitch) seems to quite the secessionist, wonder
of wonders, no one seemed to point that out, vis a vis, another poorly premised assumptiona about another candidate

[Anonna]

How insulting it is to call people "birthers" because they want to see the factual record for themselves. Given the worshipful adulation that surrounds this President and media's enthusiasm for throwing themselves under his feet to prevent him any bad publicity, it's only reasonable to doubt assurances from these sources regarding The One's citizenship.
Personally, I think it may be as simple as Obama being prideful to "knuckle under" to requests that he prove his Hawaiian birth.

Or, and this is my true private theory, he was born in Hawaii, but gave up his citizenship or received aid funds illegally as a "foreign student" when in college.

The birth certificate issue may be a red herring -- people focus on it because it is obviously make or break. Their interest in his college records is less because it's a more unwieldly mass of material and therefore less compelling.

Even if his birth certifiate is fine, I want to see those college records. I guess that makes me a "colleger."

[Threadkiller]

Dear "colleger", please become a "dualer". He admitted he was born a dual citizen. No need to wait for a conspiracy to unravel.

[Mike G in Corvallis]

I've said it before ... Barack Obama isn't the only person who could legally get a copy of his original long-form birth certificate -- close relatives are also entitled to do this. So his half-sister could do it, or his half-brother in China, or his half-brother in Kenya, or his illegal immigrant aunt ...

You'd think that somewhere there'd be a Republican billionaire who'd give Obama's aunt $50,000, a Hawaiian vacation, and unlimited immigration lawyer services in exchange for a copy of that document, wouldn't you?

[Threadkiller]

Mike G, do you think being born a dual citizen is a disqualifier for the "natural born" requirement?

[Mike G in Corvallis]

Why do you care about my opinion on that? What I posted had nothing to do with that issue.

I want to see his real birth certificate because he won't let anyone see it. Ditto his college transcripts and scholarship documents.

[KP]

Personally I don't give a squat if PeeBHO was born in Kenya, Hawaii or Bumfark, Egypt. He is an abomination and makes J. Carter look like an extraordinary diplomat, leader and scholar.

Obama is a total loser who needs to be recalled. The least that can be done is for the House of Representatives can do is to de-fund each and every action and department that has an appointed czar instead of a duly authorized cabinet Secretary.

Stop The Madness. The US Constitution is the document we live by, not Alinsky's Rules or the Kenyan Constitution.

Remember the words of the Declaration: "And for the support of this declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of Divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our lives, our fortunes and our sacred honor."

Live them. Honor them.

KP

[Mike G in Corvallis]

You know, it would be a supreme irony if it turned out that Obama's long-form birth certificate proved to the birthers that he is indeed a natural born citizen ... because his real father was Frank Marshall Davis.

Hmm. Does anyone know the blood types of the four relevant individuals?

[Threadkiller]

Because it is the true problem. I am curious how many people are OK with a dual citizen being POTUS.

If the cert shows he was born in Hawaii and his transcripts prove nothing, are you satisfied with an end result that allows ALL dual citizens to hold our highest office?

I don't have to wait for anything. The founders did not intend for a British Subject to be POTUS. If they did, why fight a war?

[Threadkiller]

--"You know, it would be a supreme irony if it turned out that Obama's long-form birth certificate proved to the birthers that he is indeed a natural born citizen ... because his real father was Frank Marshall Davis."--

Good point. Because until that happens we have go on his own admission that he was born subject to British rule. (i.e. not Natural Born).

[Jack is Back!]

TK,

Ever notice how this subject brings us new visitors, members and audience of the CoLB movement? Its like someone has a fireworks display out back and everyone drops the remote, runs to the window and starts going oooh. AW, Wow!

[Threadkiller]

JiB, sometimes I wonder if “birther” is TM's version of Allahpundit's “Sarah Palin” threads.

Generate traffic.

[Janet]

Maybe we regular Americans should all start presenting our own "short form" birth certificates. DMV, passports, sports teams, various registrations,....
We just bring an index card that says we are in the possession of the original birth certificate & we ourselves swear we've seen it.

[Clarice]

Legal Insurrection notes that if the governor were Republican he'd be tagged a "birther". The effort to tag those who want to see the evidence as "birthers" really is an effort to keep that wall around Obama safe and secure, isn't it? Otherwise how to explain the effort that goes into discrediting those who've made a simple request to see the evidence.

[Threadkiller]

--"Otherwise how to explain the effort that goes into discrediting those who've made a simple request to see the evidence."--

I can explain it. It keeps eyes off the ball. It is evidence for a theory. Dual citizenship is a fact.

Three choices.

1. Born on U.S. soil = natural born.

Anchor babies can be POTUS, including children of foreign terrorists.

2. Born to one citizen and one foreign parent.

Foreign terrorists can pay an American hooker to sire their child.

3. Born to American citizen parents (plural).

No allegiance to a foreign entity at birth.

[narciso]

Well Hamilton never ran for the office (runs and hides) I don't think there is much to it, I don't have the revulsion to the topic
that DoT, well not quite yet anyways. But is
curious how even the more idiosyncratic aspects of his background, as De Souza and
even Kurtz have pointed out, are verboten,

[Janet]

Yeah narciso, that's the deal. It is not any one thing...it is the entire sketchy background.
who was the girlfriend?
the trip to Bali?
college finance?...grades?...papers?
the lie about Ayers just being some guy in his neighborhood?

[chemman]

Janet, you are quiet correct. I had to show more records to join the military than he did to become the CinC. Something just a tad wrong with the picture there.

[Jack is Back!]

If I was Bud Collier I'd want Obama on my top show - "I've Got A Secret".

[OldTimer]

If Barrack's ancestry, or duplicity about his ancestry in any way invites blackmail from our enemies, then I would say we have a problem, Houston. Why all the secretiveness? This is becoming a rather expensive and arrogant game for the entities unwilling to establish Obama's presidential bona fides. As the game stretches into the umpteenth inning, more and more people are piling into the grandstands to see what all the commotion is about.

[pagar]

"If Barrack's ancestry, or duplicity about his ancestry in any way invites blackmail from our enemies,"

It's pretty obvious that he wants to keep it quiet. My guess they are using it right now, rather they have the correct answer or not. Just the hint of releasing it probably works for them

[Boatbuilder]

When my lib friends sneer at "birthers," I no longer argue. I just ask--Yeah, but but aren't you the least bit curious? Usually ends the discussion, eyes roll, etc--but really they must wonder about it.
I for one was curous enough about the Bush TANG claims to look very hard to try and find out what the real story was.

[Anonna]

Can dual citizenship holders receive foreign funds for tuition? Interesting question. I'll have to follow it up, Threadkiller, but you didn't kill the thread. There are still plenty of other interesting questions about the papers that Obama is so carefully hiding.

[Neo]

Something this coming year, this will be resolved. States like Arizona and Wyoming (?) have passed laws for candidates running for President to present documentation that they qualify for the job (i.e. natural birth, etc.) in the terms set forth in the Constitution.
It will take a shitload of spin to hide it then.

[Cole Sear]

As a Christian, I really shouldn't laugh at the mentally ill, but anyone who doubts Obama's citizenship is fucking nuts. What makes it funny is that none of you realize it.

Merry Christmas, anyway, you fucking retards.

[Clarice]

Well, thank you , Mr. Christian.

[jfxgillis]

"So, why is the most transparent administration in history so opaque on this minor point?"

Just to piss you ignorant right-wing lunatic idiots off.

Next question?

[hit and run]

As a Christian ... Merry Christmas, anyway, you fucking retards.

Awww,thanks.

You certainly speak not in the tongue of angels -- but you defintely are a resounding gong and a clanging cymbal.

[hit and run]

Just to piss you ignorant right-wing lunatic idiots off.

Ah yes. So you and I both know that Obama's campaign against "cynicism" was the ultimate act of cynicism. But you sure you want to be admitting this in front of everyone?

Next question?

Are you really as dumb as you make yourself out to be?

[L.N. Smithee]

My back-up guess is that the file includes something embarassing, such as a legal name change from "Barry" to "Barack" while a teenager. The omission of that detail (if true) from "Dreams From My Father" might trigger some clucking.

I agree that the actual 1961 document must contain something that contradicts his well-worn, oft-told, self-serving legend, but think it has to be even more embarrassing than a "Barry" to "Barack" switch. That has no legs at all. The vehemence and expense with which the question is being met has the feel of a classic cover-up that would shatter his image even among his supporters.

I have my own thoughts, which I won't go into now, about what might be Obama's problem, but it has to be something similar to that of Adlai Stevenson. In the 1952 and 1956 Presidential races, Democrat Senator Stevenson crowed that he went to Harvard Law, but the fact that he had flunked out was concealed during the campaigns.

The people who spout vulgarities when this topic is breached -- you know, the brood that were insisting to the very last second that Dan Rather's Texas Air National Guard memo about George W. Bush was authentic -- know that too. That's why they're driven to remarks about Bush's semen and, in the case of Stephen Colbert, http://www.colbertnation.com/the-colbert-report-videos/222213/march-19-2009/bill-posey-alligator-rumors>making bestiality jokes about http://www.colbertnation.com/the-colbert-report-videos/225628/april-23-2009/illegitimate-grandson-of-an-alligator>a Florida Republican's grandmother for the crime of proposing that an eponymous birth certificate be issued as proof of eligibility by the 2012 election.

Wouldn't it be something if somehow Julian Assange released the birth cert in Wikileaks? The lefties who defend him might be so torn, they'd split in half.

[schooner]

Nice to see that Tom keeps flirting with Birtherism but doesn't have the guts to go all in.

Not like there's any credibility left to save Tom. Just go for it.

[Ellie Light]

Why I swear that Putin was born in Hawaii. Who could question that?

[Threadkiller]

I think the cert will tell us who popped him in the lip. Oh, so important! TMZ will get to the bottom of the unknown.

Keep ignoring the obvious.

[glasater]

augustine25 claims to have gone to school with him at Occidental.

And if someone wants to wade through eleven thousand tweats...he says Obama got foreign student aid.

[squaredance]

This whole issue may look slightly silly but it obviously has some stark underpinning:

To whit:

1) Here we have the Democrat party quite openly flouting the spirit (and some would say the letter) of the law. No "Identity American" Party would so openly dodge the matter and engage in such blantant (and incompetent) sophistry. There really is no excuse, certainly not "the Privacy" of the parents. This is a public office. Their refusals are so blatantly irrational that they speak not only of honor and decency but a deep and abiding contempt of the Nation and her citizens.

2) This crock of lies and evasion is fully supported by the MSM and government officials. Someone above said that a MSM sanction candidate in effect is above the law. This is confusing agencies: Government officials provide the sanction; the MSM provides the cover. So far interests of liberty, decency and honor goes, this is a much more deadly matter that mere propaganda or the manipulation of opinions.

3) The electorate buys it, or at least has been lulled into apathy and complacency. They get away with it. What next? What do they do when they amass enough power to have a completely free hand?

4) These are the same people that have substantial control over the election process. (Think about that one.)

We are ruled--and not "governed"--by a criminal syndicate. They have been entrenching themselves for 80 years.

Like abused spouses who cannot see their own degradation, we as a nation have become so inured to these outrages that we cannot see them for the great evil and danger that they manifest. Those who press upon these outrages are relegated to the fringes. Individually and collectively, we are a people and a nation struggling with the very integrity of our physical, spiritual, intellectual and moral lives. The fabric is not fraying, it is torn.

It is not merely a matter of electing politicians--the rot has settled in our bones. The real issues need to be discussed openly in a clear and open national discussion: The true nature of the Left, their Nomenklatura and the Democrat Party--their real designs and the actual and potential fruits of these designs--must be laid bared so even the dullest eye can see them. Then, and only then, when they are thrown solely upon their smug, dishonorable and deceitful cant, will their fragility be exposed and their evil laid bare.

Then perhaps we can begin to repair the damage. This will be no easy task for much of what we all hold as true are in fact lies and chimeras. This is so even with conservatives.

If it is not derailed, the Tea Parties may be the locomotive to drive this discussion for we will certainly depend on our corrupt elites. Let us hope that they have the vision and the guts to take the fight where it must in the end lead.

[squaredance]

Their refusals are so blatantly irrational that they speak not only of CONTEMPT for honor and decency...

(obviously)

[Kathy Kinsley]

Regarding foreign student aid. On Snopes. . Even if he did get foreign student aid, all that would prove (read the whole article) is that he was lying in order to get it.

I, too, suspect there may be something embarrassing in the long-form birth certificate. But I doubt it has anything to do with citizenship.

[TacoBill]

The question that few ask is when did Barry/ Barack re-applied for US citizenship after traveling to Pakistan on an Indonesian passport in 1981. Indonesia does not have dual citizenship. No doubt either that he got into Occidental and Columbia as a foreign student. The multiple layers of lies, and mis-information put out there by Barry 's puppet masters reminds me of the ongoing UFO coverups....[Insert - Barry as an ET Alien joke here]

Mr. Soros -- please send me another check for $250 for posting a comment that tell the truth about our guy Barry's fake US citiizenship and then mixes in a UFO reference to show how only crazy folks are birthers. Thanks again for the opportunity to have those right-wing yahoo's chase their tail..this is too much fun....

[Sue]

Odd, I could have sworn I read a quote from Abercrombie way back when that he knew Obama's father but never knew his mother. Didn't know his father was dating a white girl. And now he knew both of them? I wish I cared enough to go find the original Abercrombie quote.

[Janet CEO Redneck Beauty Salon Inc.]

Sue, From the Obamafile University of Hawaii section..

From the post - "There is conflicting information about this period. Members of the snack bar crowd don't remember the Obama-Dunham relationship. In this report, Hal Abercrombie said he never saw them together. Pake Zane could not recall Ann from those days but had precise memories of Senior.

However, Neil Abercrombie, the Democratic congressman from Hawaii, was part of those regular gatherings and described Anna as "the original feminist." "

So brothers Hal & Neil Abercrombie have different recollections.

This is interesting too...a later meeting with Hal Abercrombie.

[Janet CEO Redneck Beauty Salon Inc.]

Stanley Ann moving to Seattle really makes it seem like the Dunhams were afraid of Barack Obama Sr..

from the post - "August of 1961: The same month that Obama Jrs birth certificate says he was born in Hawaii, the University of Washington shows his mom Stanley Ann Dunham attending classes in Seattle nearly 2680 miles away from Honolulu. She was enrolled in the UW and lived in an apartment on Capitol Hill. This explains why Obama Srs friends in Hawaii dont remember her.

Ms. Stanley Ann Dunham was enrolled at the University of Washington for:

Autumn 1961
Winter 1962
Spring 1962"

then..."Stanley Ann Dunham returned to Hawaii after Barack Hussein Obama Sr. left the island, and resumed her study of Mathematics in the Spring of 1963 at the University of Hawaii at Manoa."

[Threadkiller]

Is a dual citizen eligible for the office of President?

[Sue]

I received Bush's book, Decision Points, as a Christmas gift. Started reading it yesterday afternoon. Pretty good so far.

[Sue]

Janet,

Thanks. Maybe I was thinking of Hal, not Neil. It is odd though that only Neil remembers them as a couple.

[Semenfilledcleo]

I see no one has challenged my expert observation on the effects of ingesting too much semen. Finally, a smart move by you fucking morons.

And my imaginary son says "Happy Holidays" from Iraq.

[Clarice]

If Obama pawned himself off as a foreign student at Occidental, he probably kept up the charade at Columbia and HLS which might explain how he got in with such poor grades.

[Al Asad]

"I see no one has challenged my expert observation on the effects of ingesting too much semen. Finally, a smart move by you fucking morons.

And my imaginary son says "Happy Holidays" from Iraq.+

Posted by: Semenfilledcleo

*chuckle

It seems the local trollops are having difficulty recognizing their players without benefit of identifiers.

Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.

[Threadkiller]

I will let you remain the expert on ingesting too much semen.

Speaking of challenge:

Is a dual citizen eligible for the office of President?

[Al Asad]

"Is a dual citizen eligible for the office of President? "

You birfers keep your eye on the distractions if it's more comfortable Noodler.

Ingesting the Noodle is what yer good at.

[Jose Feliciano]

Fucking morons. That really is the only response to birthers. You are fucking morons and nothing can help your rampant paranoid idiocy.

I really feel sorry for you fucking morons, still shitting your pants that the black guy won the election.

Guess what fucking morons? He'll win in 2012 too, and you tards will really need to come up with some newer material to keep your momentum rolling.

Merry Xmas, morons.

[Al Asad]

For those untutored in writing style.
*chuckle
I am not Jose Feliciano

[Janet CEO Redneck Beauty Salon Inc.]

The trolls never answer any questions. Cursing & name calling isn't an answer to anything. No links, no answers...just ugliness.

[Foxworthy]

How do you compliment a redneck female"

'Nice tooth'

[glasater]

Yes Janet.

One would think wading through 11,000 *tweets* would keep a body busy...

[Jose Feliciano]

Keep chasing your own shit coated tail, morans. Sooner or later even the dumbest of spaniels stops and vomits after repeated circular motions.

But...as a spaniel is wont to do...they just lap up their own vomit and start spinning again. Repeat as necessary.

[Threadkiller]

Jose, when you and cleo are done eating your “soggy biscuit”, are you going to try to answer the question?

[Jose Feliciano]

The question is what exactly? What question remains about who the goddamn president is?

Nothing remains. There is no 'there' there, idjuts.

All that remains is abject stupidity from dumb white people who scream about their country being taken away from them, because they have to press 1 for English sometimes.

Get over it, crackers. This ain't the 50s anymore.

[Threadkiller]

--"All that remains is abject stupidity from dumb white people..."--

Racist.

[BugMeNot]

How many times are you going to dig up this dead horse and beat it some more? The evidence *has* been provided, even though Obama has never been obligated to do so. You just won't admit it because you are desperately looking for excuses to de-legitimize a democratic election that you lost.

The fact that he isn't white and has a "funny" name is the only thing keeping this quixotic crusade of yours going.

[Threadkiller]

He is white.

Aside from that, the question has nothing to do with a certificate or provided evidence.

Once again and still with no mention of Obama:

Is a dual citizen eligible for the office of President?

Please focus.

[Elliott]

Threadkiller,

Were the issue ever adjudicated with respect to Obama, wouldn't his lawyers argue that his father's prior marriage in Kenya renders his second marriage invalid and its issue ineligible for CUKC by descent status?