We Want Them On That Wall... But Not On College Campuses

Please don't bleed on the Ivy - the WaPo disgraces itself with this op-ed piece by Colman McCarthy (to whom we give props, in a 'spell the name right, any publicity is good publicity' sort of way).  His gist - Set aside any notion you might have that our nation's educated elite ought to have some contact with our nation's military.  In his view, US soldiers should fight, bleed and die elsewhere but not sully our college campuses with their presence:

Now that asking and telling has ceased to be problematic in military circles, ROTC has resurfaced as a national issue: Will universities such as Harvard, Yale and other Ivy League schools be opened to Reserve Officers' Training Corps since colleges can no longer can argue that the military is biased against gays and therefore not welcome?

...

It should not be forgotten that schools have legitimate and moral reasons for keeping the military at bay, regardless of the repeal of "don't ask, don't tell." They can stand with those who for reasons of conscience reject military solutions to conflicts.

They can stand with Martin Luther King Jr. and his view of America's penchant for war-making: "This madness must cease," he said from a pulpit in April 1967.

Uh huh.  I'll take a guess that Dr. King was talking about Vietnam, which, contrary to some liberal fantasies, is not the only war America ever fought.  Even Barack Obama supported some wars (back in 2002 he made the tough calls and backed the Civil War and WWII; about Korea we don't know, but he has tripled our troop presence in Afghanistan.)

To oppose ROTC, as I have since my college days in the 1960s, when my school enticed too many of my classmates into joining, is not to be anti-soldier. I admire those who join armies, whether America's or the Taliban's: for their discipline, for their loyalty to their buddies and to their principles, for their sacrifices to be away from home. In recent years, I've had several Iraq and Afghanistan combat veterans in my college classes. If only the peace movement were as populated by people of such resolve and daring.

America, Taliban, Nazi Germany - I admire anyone who leaves home to fight for a cause, however twisted.  But I am a drooling maroon.  People with less of a tendency toward moral equivalence will see things differently.

ROTC and its warrior ethic taint the intellectual purity of a school, if by purity we mean trying to rise above the foul idea that nations can kill and destroy their way to peace.

Please.  If McCarty ever is so unfortunate as to have a house on fire I hope he does not call the fire department and instead rises above the foul idea that merely pouring water on flames can halt the inevitable decay of wood back to dust.  If he is ever unfortunate enough to be mugged, I hope he can avoid calling the police and instead rise above the foul idea that incarcerating felons can halt the inevitable human tendency towards crime.  Grrr...

AND I MEAN GRRR... Moe Lane swings the big stick.

MORE:  A photo and a story.

I mean, what campus would be safe?

Comments

[larry]

Hey, Elliott. Happy New Year. Gnight all.

[larry]

Sara-a total jerk when hanging out with his buddies Hanging out is for chest bumping and appendage measuring. I really mean it this time--night night.

[Chubby]

DoT

Thank you for the posts about your granddad. The early days of naval aviation must have been exciting and heady times.

Not too long ago, I discovered the site www.archive.org from which I've already downloaded several 19th century books (for free) in PDF form. The PDFs are great, scans of the original with graphics, searchable, and text extractable. Just for fun I went to the site and searched for "navy aviation" and among several interesting results, including films, was this 260 page book, "The eyes of the army and navy; practical aviation ([1917])" Author: Munday, Albert Henry, 1894-. The focus is the Royal Air Force, but perhaps there are some gems in there you would find interesting, seeing as it covers the same aviation era as your grandfather's. You can read it online, or download. (For downloading I recommend the B/W (black and white) PDF, which takes up less space and is easier to read.)

Happy 2011!

[Chubby]

maryrose

re acquired taste :) I don't know that much about Jesuits other than they are an elite group that some people have strong opinions about :) If I need to learn more, I now know who to ask :)

[Chubby]

DoT

oops forgot to include the link LUN

[squaredance]

The Ivy's were once a bastion of a true and actual elite: The old WASP Ascendancy. They earned their place and tool their role seriously. Morally and intellectually weakened at the turn of the century, they were first corrupted by the earlier "Progressive Movement", and then in the interwar period were assaulted by the New Dealer who finally routed or co-opted them. As a cultural elite, they were swept aside.

From the constitution to Carnegie Hall, much of what is enduring and worthwhile in this nation derives from them, but as a cultural, political or economic force they are but a tiny echo and parody of what thy once were.

So too it is with the Ivy's: they are no longer what they once were; they are facades of an older, nobler order masking the swirling, giddy and grasping pretensions, mediocrity and nihilism of the collectivist order.

From the New Deal forward, the Ivy's are in effect different institutions.

Your mention of naval aviation only serves to illustrate this sad turn of affairs.

[squaredance]

tool their=took their

[narciso]

Just in case, you were in doubt, his stupidity is total, in the LUN

[centralcal]

Good morning. DoT your grandfather was amazing. Loved the photos and the stories.

[Sue]

I thought my grandfather, a perfectly ordinary grandfather, walked on water. I can't imagine how I would feel if he had done the things DoT's grandfather did. What a story to tell your own grandchildren.

[Donald]

When I got to the Ranger in 1982, A. A Less was the captain. I believe he was the first commander of the Blue Angels. Dude was like John F Kennedy. In a good way. Always out and about, the most positive person there was. Arther Frederickson succeeded him. If you know the history of the Ranger, well, he wasnt like A A Less.

My Grand father, enlisted in the Navy the day after Pearl Harbor. He went to the Pacific and was in Submarines till the end of the war. He did it all, fought till it was over, never came home, then when he did (come home) and fell apart. He was so much like me (In pictures and deeds, both good and bad)that when I look at photos of him it makes me cry.

[Donald]

I mean look at the guy.

LUN

[centralcal]

When I was a young girl, I thought all of the really handsome men were in the Navy. It is nice to see now in my older years, how right I was.

[Donald]

Then Captain Frederickson came on board. Things were just never the same.

[Porchlight]

He looks like a great guy, Donald. Very nice photo.

It's incredible to think of what so many went through, and kept silent about.

[Donald]

This was our CMC. Enlisted the same day as my grandfather. No you know where Popeye really came from.

He only knew four letter words.

[Donald]

Also, you just know that the most happening job in america on Dec 8 2942 was any military recruitment office!

[Donald]

Well, I see that Hobbs had enlisted 3 months before Dec 7 1941 (I apologize!).

I can without a doubt however unequivocally state that he himself bragged bodaciously about joining Dec. 8. Just sayin.

[Porchlight]

Donald, I see what you mean - he looks like he walked right out of Central Casting.

The Navy guys are the handsomest, centralcal! You were right.

[Donald]

Just in case Ms. Porch that was Mr. Less.

My brand father was MUCH better looking!

[Donald]

Grandfather!

I'm posting too much and will now stop. Hopefully.

Go Dawgs.

[Donald]

Ranger! LUN

[Porchlight]

Oh, thanks Donald! I misunderstood. Thanks for the link to the Ranger - I love looking at these pages.

[Cecil Turner]

Well, as enjoyable as the excursion into nasal radiation history is, I feel the need to rant on topic. Because the moral preening by those whose safety and comfort is maintained by the people they despise is way past disgusting. And McCarthy's column is a near-perfect exemplar of that ilk.

First, national defense is an integral part of our most basic social contract:

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence . . . [emphasis added]

We have a well-established national procedure for determining when and how we will use military force (UMF), under complete control of the citizenry. Those who shoulder the burden of such service do so with the understanding they will surrender many of their rights to accomplish the goals as directed by someone else, with means chosen by law and an imperfect command structure, under austere conditions and with their safety and welfare necessarily a secondary concern. The proffered proposition that this is an immoral choice is beyond parody.

Second, while some enemies may be honorable, McCarthy's silly equivalence with the Taliban is nonsensical. A suicide bomber strapping on a semtex/nail vest in order to slaughter civilians and terrorize the rest into submission is not engaging in the same sort of service. It's not in the same ballpark, nor in the same league.

Third, "teaching peace" is risible. If the best and brightest in our universities wish to refine the defense process, lobby for better "Rules for the Government and Regulation of the land and naval Forces," or apply themselves to more efficient defense, they are more than welcome. And if they want to "teach peace" to the modern likes of Hitler, Tojo, or Saddam Hussein, I'm all for that, too.

Finally, those who emerge on the losing side of a UMF decision do not gain any moral cachet thereby. I do not dispute their right to dissent, but it's important to recognize they are breaking with the expressed will of the people. At best such behavior is neutral, at worst it serves to prolong suffering. If they wish to engage in disruptive/destructive behavior with the aim of hindering the war effort (e.g., spouting enemy propaganda, blocking or assaulting recruiters) they deserve to be treated in like measure.

[Jane (get off the couch - come save the country)]

Another fabulous end of the year thread. DOT, those pix and stories are amazing. Don't stop now.

[MayBee]

I loved this, DoT. Thank you for sharing your (his) story.

[caro]

Great thread. Just like the old days. Grandpa DoT was indeed a hero.

[clarice]

DoT's whole family is interesting, including DoT.

And aren't we lucky to have so many pilots posting here. I think people responsible for the lives of others seem to have better focus on things.

[cathyf]

Heh -- "nasal aviation"... Cecil, I think Clarice is rubbing off on all of us!

[clarice]

He said "nasal radiation" cathy..you are already reading it in translation.