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December 30, 2010

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DebinNC

Chubby, I hope that "stupid" comment was directed at Colman, not you. Otherwise, it was a bizarre reaction to your interesting Orwell post. Of course, I'm aging and could be stupid too, so please, no more talk of leaving.

MarkO

Chubby,

Once again, please accept my sincere regrets for something I should have noticed at the time. I went back again and rescaned the thread. I don't even see anything you posted that could rationally be called "stupid." And, I'm troubled that you thought I was insulting you.

Don't quit posting because of me.

Chubby

MarkO

When I saw your post I wanted to just skulk away, but felt compelled to reply, and am glad I did. From what I have read of your posts in the past, I did think the seeming hostility was unlike you. Thank you for your best wishes.


Porchlight

I hope that you and your family are having lots of fun over the holidays. All the best in 2011. I look forward to reading your lively and wise contributions!

Janet

OT story....
We took our new puppy, Jess for an off leash walk along a creek that runs down to the Potomac River. A wooded area called Windy Run. Anyway we came across 2 kids & a grandma (?) walking....the puppy ran up all excited to greet them. The little girl...maybe 8 or 9 & looking very serious said we should put our dog on a leash.
How sad is that? She is right about the LAW but can you believe a kid wouldn't want to mess with a little puppy?
I'm gonna have a hard time in our brave new world.... :(

Chubby

DebinNC

Thanks for your note. The hazard of Internet communication is that without the body language cues, words can come across totally different than they were intended.

Happy New Year!! I look forward to reading your posts which I always find solid as a rock.

Comanche Voter

A lot of military officers seeking graduate degrees are pretty danged smart. One Major Robert Montgomery, West Point say class of '58 and a Rhodes Scholar, was a student at Boalt Hall School of Law, UC Berkeley Class of 1969. Unlike Billy Jeff Clinton, I assume that Montgomery actually earned a second degree while at Oxford as a Rhodes Scholar.

He wasn't too smart--just #1 in the class, and the Editor of the California Law Review (remember our brilliant Jug Eared Messiah was President of the Harvard Law Review). One difference between the Major and Juggy was that the Major actually wrote a legal piece that got published, and worked his butt off as editor of the Review during the third year. Juggy stayed in his apartment and came by the Harvard Review "once in a while".

Major Montgomery happened to be a damned nice guy, as well as smart as a whip. His three years of law school, paid for by the Army, cost him an extra five years tacked on to his service obligation.

Bear1909

I wouldn't be so outraged over the pansies at the elite universities seeing fit to bar military recruiters from the placement centers there.

The university as the pansies know it is on its way out. Bricks and mortar for Sodom and Gomorrah pagan holidays for the wealthy, where perverted faculty can prey on the young and rape the sons of the disillusioned, these things are going to go the way of the newspaper in our virtual economy.

The credit has dried up. The lube that was the access channel for the lower class to go middle class and the middle class to go upper and into elite-ville has dried up. No credit- no bubble. The 50s 60s 70s 80s 90s and into the first two decades of the 21st century were a Fitzgerald joyride that is over.

America is broke and the party is over. The carpet baggery might be lingering in tattered costume over the carcass of the Frank-Clinton-Dodd-Madoff economy. But make no mistake the party is over.

The military will be the recipient of a "peace" collapse dividend as massive numbers look for three squares and a job. Recruit? They will be screening out the turned up noses of the snotty ones who still believe they have a choice between fighting and starving.

The food shortages in the California Great Central Valley are beginning to reverberate into grocery stores---- and even the boutique stores where the elites shop will feel the pinch beyond their pistachios and their locally grown arugula.

No. Make no mistake about it: Coleman McCarthy will perish in the coming cataclysms of economic collapse. A little precious birdie in the parlor that is about to be assaulted by zombie like starvation survivors just three weeks after the shelves went empty- that is our little Coleman. It's Bambi vs Godzilla time.

Yet the elites play their harpsichords and powder their wigs. Relativism is a bitch when you got nothing to eat Coleman. And I mean "Nothin".

Saddle up.

MarkO

Chubby, Thanks for responding and being so understanding. I try to be polite to almost everyone on this site and I failed with you. Keep posting.

Chubby

Take care, MarkO

Extraneus

How about they form their own Ivy League Regiment, along the lines of the Black Regiment of the Civil War and the Gay Regiment the early 2010s?

Rob Crawford

How about they form their own Ivy League Regiment, along the lines of the Black Regiment of the Civil War and the Gay Regiment the early 2010s?

I think they'd be more like the Zouaves, but with higher-priced designers and less fighting ability.

Porchlight

Thanks, Chubby. We had a wonderful Christmas. Best to you in 2011 as well! Things are already looking up.

Janet

2 Zouaves -

"Get that puppy on a leash you teabagging Bible thumper!"

Extraneus

Good point, Rob. It almost goes without saying that each new regiment should be allowed to design their own uniforms.

Specter

LOL

Janet

A tired Zouave -

"I joined the Ivy League Regiment & all I got was these lousy MC Hammer pants."

Stephanie

MC Hammer

You can't touch this!

LUN

Ignatz

--Mike Giles- I had forgotten about that Orwell quote. One of Orwell's best thoughts-- and Orwell had alot of great thoughts.--

I believe that's one of those great sayings, like "the only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing", which nobody actually said.

clarice

I read that the students at Yale want ROTC back.
What is Spring Hill college where McCarthy got his degree?ever heard of it.

It must be real hard to study for and pass his Peace Literature Courses..Do they allow people who were honestly admitted and working for real degrees to take them..

And this is just more evidence that the Smithsonian Magazine has fallen into evil hands:
" Smithsonian magazine said he is "a man of profound spiritual awareness"

Probably written by a Peace Lit major.

Old Lurker

After the 400 comment thread on the rudeness of he who must not be named, the simple courtesy of that exchange above between Mark and Chubby is why I enjoy this group so much.

Henry

Note for ivy bashers, naval aviation was started by a bunch of Yale men in WWI.

Extraneus

Was Skip Gates a big shot in those days?

centralcal

Amen, OL!

There was a really cute, either typo or pun, on yesterday's thread in Tom Maguire's comments. He referenced "narcisolator" as "narcoisolator." Breaking it down - narco-isolator made it really funny. Intentionally or not! lol.

Which brings me to my question - why, again, is the bgates "narcisolator" named after one of our most beloved and somewhat enigmatic commenters?

Rob Crawford

Note for ivy bashers, naval aviation was started by a bunch of Yale men in WWI.

Nearly a century ago.

You can't coast on past greatness forever. You have to continue to contribute. The Ivy League just hasn't recently.

Specter

From wiki: Spring Hill College is a private, Roman Catholic Jesuit liberal arts college...

There we have it....LIBERAL arts. LOL. And this guy has the guts to say that the ROTC courses were, "softie courses." Isn't "softie" a little used variant of "softy"?

Henry

Rob Crawford- agreed. I met the recruiters when I was there, but a sports injury cost me the physical

centralcal

Oh, golly, Specter - Jesuit. Say no more! ::imitating Sue's famous eyeroll::

DrJ

The Ivy League just hasn't [contributed] recently.

I know this is a favorite whipping boy around here, but I disagree with this statement. Vigorously. The hard sciences continue to contribute, and the faculty at many truly are outstanding. Those at Harvard, Cornell, Columbia and Princeton come to mind.

Sure, there is lots not to like about the Ivies. But to claim they are not contributing simply is a provincial prejudice.

Danube of Thought

Note for ivy bashers, naval aviation was started by a bunch of Yale men in WWI.

I beg to differ. Naval Aviators nos. 1 trough 4 were all Naval Academy graduates (Spuds Ellyson, Jon Rogers, Jack Towers and Vic Herbster). So were nos. 7 through 11. Number 5 (Alfred Cunningham) attended Gordon Military College; no. 6 (Barney Smith) went to Virginia Tech.

2011 is the centennial of US Naval Aviation, a hundred years since Glenn Curtiss taught Ellyson to fly in Coronado and Ellyson made his first flight. The first catapult lauch from a ship at sea was my grandfather in 1915.

Danube of Thought

First catapult launch.

Old Lurker

"The first catapult lauch from a ship at sea was my grandfather in 1915."

Wow. Now THAT is neat, DoT.

Cecil Turner

Note for ivy bashers, naval aviation was started by a bunch of Yale men in WWI.

Well, I see DoT beat me to it. Naval aviation predates WWI (e.g., Ely had the first takeoff in 1910), and the early pioneers were predominantly academy men. Yale was the birthplace of the Naval Air Reserve (which is certainly a laudable achievement).

Specter

On the BIG thread yesterday someone intimated that it was fun coming to JOM because so many people took up the call for information - like a big blog-based search engine. The two posts by DoT above actually show that. And it got me even more interested so:

Glenn Curtiss was the innovator that showed that planes could take off and land from a ship (USS Birmingham in Nov 1910). One of his test pilots, Eugene Burton Ely, who was a graduate of Iowa State University, was the actual pilot on the test.

Specter

Sheesh...Cecil beat me to it...

Porchlight

DoT's naval/naval aviation pedigree is unmatched, that is for sure.

Danube of Thought

Glenn Curtiss did far more to make aviation a reality than did the Wright Brothers--a truly fascinating man.

As I recall the lore, Ely was chosen for that first flight because his occupation was "daredevil."

My grandfather was taught to fly by his civilian brother-in-law in 1910 in Philadelphia, and it changed his life forever. He got his wings in 1912 at the age of 38, and immediately became (as a Lt. Cdr.) the senior naval aviator. He was a very forceful advocate of the need for aircraft carriers (before they existed), and in testimony in 1921 explained how carriers could be used against Japan in the war that he said was inevitable. He died in 1923 at the age of 49 of an aortal aneurism.

Jack is Back!

I don't know about other's ROTC experience but mine wjas anything but "soft". I was doing a double major in architecture & engineering plus playing football & baseball. Then you had 3 days a week of drills, mil history, customs, UCMJ, etc. Plus weekend drills when not playing. Oh, forget your summers and don't forget to keep a 2.5 gap at the same time. But it better be more like 3.5 if want a good billet & flight school. Me, I'd like to see an Ivy Leauger like Obama do it without complaining to the ACLU.

bgates

c-cal - I don't know if it still happens, but for a long time narciso's inevitably enigmatic comments were made even more so by the presence of line breaks at weird intervals. The narcisolator gets rid of those. That way there's nothing to get confused about in his comments besides the offhand references to important figures in the Great Game, czarist counterintelligence, or pop culture.

I'm so tickled that little script has been so popular. And I'm equally happy that we were able to convince its namesake that no offense was intended.

narciso

At first I took offense, but I got over it. Wow, Danube, I didn't know how significant
your family has been in the Navy, it's like
a real life version of William Martin's novels

Jane (get off the couch - come save the country)

I always wndered about that BGates, I'm glad to hear it.

Specter

That's pretty cool DoT...

OT: I've always loved aircraft. I worked for Convair for quite a few years (and then GD Space Systems Division). I loved wandering the floor (I was an Industrial Engineer at the time) and seeing things actually taking shape. One time we got to clean out an old safe that sat behind mahogany row - it had all kinds of old marketing material for Convair. I came away with dozens of pictures of quite a few of their production planes....

Jim Rhoads a/k/a vjnjagvet

What a story DOT. McCain has nothing on you.

centralcal

Hey, thanks for that info bgates. Narciso - you do pack more varied info in one sentence that any commenter I have ever seen. I am ususally re-reading when someone else has already got it all figured out and responded (usually, Clarice!).

Jack is Back!

Specter,

This is for you. My dad proceeded me in SAC and flewbthis Convair.

**">http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/1b/NB-36H_producing_contrails_in_flight.jpg"/>**

Threadkiller

Any pics of the Pogostick, Specter?

What years did you work at Convair?

DoT, I was at Point Loma(Cabrillo) on Monday. My father in law was looking at the view, I was looking at the planes.

Threadkiller

The B-36 was so long they had to cut the hanger doors. They made a circle to match the fuselage and the tail hung out on the runway.

Danube of Thought

Here's my granddad in 1915 at Pensacola, in front of a Curtiss flying boat (I think it's an AB-1).

Those guys seem instinctively to have established the swagger that is now a part of the fiber of the Naval Aviator. I have a picture of him and eight of the other guys taken at this time, and they appear to be wearing nine different uniforms, hands in pockets, and an unmistakable air of insouciance about them. Three of the nine guys in the photo were dead before the age of thirty. (Chevalier, Saufley and one other.)

Jack is Back!

It also took 15 guys to fly it and none of them knew what the other guy was supposed to do except the pilot - land it soon!

Danube of Thought

Another one, stogey in hand.

Sorry to overload the thread with this, but it's something very dear to my heart. Just wish I could have known him.

Jack is Back!

DoT,

Send that to Joe. Tell him is for Tony and Don (two of our ex carrier contingent).

larry

A real aluminum cloud, JiB. One of my best buds was a B-36 navigator before he went to pilot training. 10 engines!

narciso

I think the reference was to the Yale Flying Unit, which included at least one future Secretary of War, (Lovett) and Asst Sec of
War for Air;(Gates)

Sue

Have y'all seen the http://www.zazzle.com/anti_obama_gone_obama_january_20_2013_tshirt-235993369561687401>Gone t-shirt?

Jack is Back!

DoT,

Those guys took no prisoners in arguments, discussion or war. Can you imagine a guy like this here with all of the anduril and Cleo clap? LOL

daddy

Hey,

The Tarheels are leading in the The Franklin American Mortgage Music City Bowl!

Has there ever been a Bowl Game with a stupider name?

Jack is Back!

Daddy,

What about the one that proceeded it: "The New Era Pinstripe Bowl"?9

larry

What a fine heritage, DoT. Was it your calling to fill those big shoes?

10 engines: 6 turnin & 4 burnin. 4 jet engines & 6 recips. LUN

bgates

Has there ever been a Bowl Game with a stupider name?

I was always partial to the Poulan Weedeater Independence Bowl.

Did you know before they got the mortgage sponsorship it was the Gaylord Hotels Music City Bowl?

Sara (Pal2Pal)

DOT: I've known a few naval aviators in my time and the swagger is there long before the Navy. You have to have a swagger personality to start with, the kind of guy who does not allow failure as an option and is willing to take all risks to avoid failure. You could probably go to any elementary school and spot those with that self-confidence needed to become one of the cream of the crop. They will rise to the top in athletics, student government, good grades, and lots and lots of friends. It doesn't even matter if the guy is good looking, the swagger of self-confidence and charisma will be a chick magnet. They know they are good and they don't need a bunch of public accolades as proof. Chuck Yeager comes to mind as an example. Your Grandfather obviously had these qualities.

When we watch carrier landings or takeoffs on TV, it tends to look easy, almost like a conveyor belt of planes. But, this type of flying is the most difficult and it takes a special kind of pilot to want to do it and do it well. Imagine what it must have been like to be the very first one. I know I would be damn proud to have those genes.

larry

I remember when there were only a dozen or so bowls, the Rose, Sugar, Orange & Cotton the big 4. And none of them had corporate sponsors.

narciso

Well I remember reading the Right Stuff, specially the first chapters, and Wolfe really seemed to capture the ethos. Something
the film didn't really do justice to.

Jack is Back!

We have bumper stickers in Florida that say simply: "1-20-13".

Foo Bar

If I were a blogger discussing Obama's support for various wars, and I were about to toss off a phrase like "about Korea we don't know", I would first do a Google search like 'obama "korean war"' or something along those lines. Then I would find this article, which might make me hesitate to write my planned "about Korea we don't know" tweaking of Obama.

That's just me, though. TM has his own approach.

Sue

Nothing in the article says Obama supported the Korean War.

narciso

You know I'm enormously impressed by all of you, Pagar, daddy, Danube,(who is modest about
his service record)larry, you have done what
I have just read about, and learned of second
hand.

daddy

DoT,

That is such great stuff. Thank you for posting that. I hate it whenI am so far behind on the comments that I post goofy stuff and then I finally catch up and see I've inserted a stupid comment in a real interesting thread. If anyone can post a link to a bigger pic of DoT's Grandad's first catapult launch, I'd love to see it.

JiB, Didn't know about that one. Turned on the TV here in the hotel room simply by chance and it took me like 5 minutes to decipher the name of whatever this bowl game is.

Heel's now losing:(

clarice

I think those carrier take offs and landings don't look easy at all. I can't imagine how they figured out how to do them and how you get the guts to even try it.

I think the old guy would have loved to know you ,too, DoT. What a couple of great men.
(JIB, it's Politics and Prose; one of the owners--the really leftwinger just died--and the place is for sale. It's our neighborhood commons.)

Stephanie

You just had to brag on the ACC team didnja?

Now Tenn is winning... pfooi.

Top five stupid bowl names LUN

BTW there was supposed to be a new bowl in 1996 that was to be played in New Zealand til someone in a position of authority came to their senses... there used to be a bowl game in Japan- the Mirage Bowl. Nuff said.

scott

That's some photo DoT. Hardman for sure.

Specter

TK...several of the pogo...I was just looking through a few closets trying to find all of them. Not only the Pogo but the 880, Hustler, F106, F16, and a lot of the missiles and rockets. I ended up as the Production CAM on the Titan/Centaur project - Space Systems built the Centaur (and the Atlas) rockets.

daddy

Boooooooooooo!

We wuz robbed.

daddy

Yay,

We successfully cheated:) Standby.................

maryrose

Chubby:
Please continue to comment in the New year. I always enjoy your posts. Spring Hill is in Alabama and I agree with the Jesuit comment. I'm immune to the Jesuits because my husband, his brother and my niece ,nephew and sister-in-law all attended Jesuit schools. They are an acquired taste.

daddy

Whoopie,

OVERTIME at the former "Gaylord Hotels Music City Bowl", now known as The Franklin American Mortgage Music City ">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NVq27glkY_A"> Tonight The Bottle Let Me Down Bowl.

larry

I worked for a guy (Brig Gen Frank Gailler) and was his tutor in T-38 school, who was an ace in Chuck Yeagers's unit in England. Frank was shot down over Germany and spent the duration as a POW. The guy who wrote Hogan's Heroes must have overheard some of Frank's war stories because when the series was aired a few years later it had a deja vu feeling for me. Those WWII flyers had some balls. With nothing but the most rudimentary flight instruments, thousands of planes launched in waves on a mission one of the main objectives of which was to get on top the clouds and join up with your own group. Attrition was horrifying. Frank was promoted through the ranks from 2Lt to O-6, full Col. in under 2 years. At the bar when he started expounding on jr officer this and jr officer that, I'd have to remind him he had no experience on the subject. If you read, Yeager, Chuck and Leo Janos. Yeager: An Autobiography. New York: Bantam, 1985. ISBN 978-0553256741, I think you'll be surprised as I was at how thoroughly humble a man he is, who, if not the greatest pilot of all time is in that pantheon.

daddy

Marijuana, Ho Che Minh,
C'mon Heel's, First and Ten!


Yay, The Old College Cheer worked,

Touchdown Heels in OT. Woo Woo Woo.

Tennessee with the ball and their backs against the wall!!! Big Fun!

daddy

Carp, carp, carp,

Tennessee Vol's tie it up@#$%!!!

This must be the best Franklin American Savings & Loan Mortgage Department Music City Bowl ever.

larry

Gratz Heel fans. Hope the trend continues FSU vs SC.

daddy

Yippee!!!

Tennessee chokes. 30-27 victory by the good guys in Double OT.

Plus we don't have to say The Franklin American Mortgage Music City Bowl for another whole year.

larry

You just threw the "department" in there to see if anyone was awake, eh?

Danube of Thought

Another photo of that cat shot. They had constructed the launching rails atop the after turret of North Carolina, and they spent a great deal of time testing it out by launching various dead weights while the ship was tied up at the pier. My father, who was four years old at the time, spent those practice days sitting on the ajacent pier with his legs dangling over the edge, just watching his dad at work. Then one day, without his knowing it was going to happen, the ship got underway. tooled out into Pensacola Bay and launched his father into the air.

Thanks to all of you who have said many kind things about the guy. I have so much more in mind about him, and also on the topic of this thread, but will have to stifle myself on the former and address the latter in due course.

Basically, I think it's a very good thing for the Ivies and any universities that want to do it to host ROTC programs. I'll have to explain later.

MarkO

"Now THAT is neat, DoT."

We don't know the half of it.

Single Dad

dads make their kids the prioritizing factor in every decision they make. They make sure that nothing and nobody takes precedence over their children. If needs be, they give up careers, homes, and dreams to be where there child is. They do it, and they do it at any cost.


larry

Thanks for the pics, DoT. Truly awesome.

Porchlight

Your grandfather was a handsome man, DoT. And wow, that last photo is incredible. You should really write a book about your family.

Re: the naval aviator swagger, my great-uncle Bob Baldwin might be an exception to the rule. He flew with Shepard, tried out for the Mercury Seven and eventually commanded the Seventh Fleet, but is as modest and unassuming a guy as you could ever hope to meet.

anduril

If Brian Eisch is lucky, maybe Bushie will come visit him: Families Bear Brunt of Deployment Strains. That'll make it all right.

Stephanie

And in other news, the Conn Women's streak is over. 90 games.

DrJ

So Stanford beat 'em, eh?

Ignatz

--Not only the Pogo but the 880, Hustler, F106, F16--

The B-58 Hustler, my favorite plane after the B-17.
My pop was crew chief on B-17s from prior to Pearl all the way through to VE Day. Started in the 8th in England and was sent to Tunisia and Italy as part of the 15th.
Had tales of poor aircrews approaching their 25th mission and essentially cracking up over the stress and many even sadder ones of crews not making it back on their 24th or 25th.

Joan

This subject reminds me of something my son said ... one of those Christmas videos was going around the internet showing a choir, dressed in casual dress, at a food court in the mall, then, one by one, standing up and singing the Hallelujah Chorus. Just exciting and wonderful and lovely. I sent it to my son, who is sort of a skeptic on religion, and he emailed back immediately with this remark: "Just think, some people plant bombs in shopping malls." Made me tear up with pride, for my son, who knows true right from wrong, and for the lovely people who believe in Christmas and its message, and who love this Country.

daddy

DoT,

If I am not much mistaken I believe a famous O' Club we both know is named after your Grandad. And another link tells me he helped in the design of ">http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/5/5d/Naval_Aviator_Badge.jpg"> these. What a great man. Amazing accomplishments jammed in to such a short life.

flodigarry

DoT - That is so cool. The cojones that your grandfather had were beyond measure. Oh, the escapades he must have instigated. Would love to hear them all.

I've walked the JFK from end-to-end and for me it's hard enough to fathom a jet taking off from such a limited distance much less a bi-plane.

God Bless these folks who were (and are) so willing to test the boundaries of what was/is known.

Sara (Pal2Pal)

but is as modest and unassuming a guy as you could ever hope to meet.

That's the point. These guys have an inner confidence where bragging or getting lots of accolades is not what makes them tick. Of course, I've seen the same guy be a total jerk when hanging out with his buddies and then be shy and unassuming when in mixed company or with strangers.

Henry

DOT, sorry. I got the wrong impression from the book "the millionaires club". Thanks fo the info.

Frau Steingehirn

The mayor of Newark helped shovel snow from the public streets and delivered diapers to the needy. That was helpful.

If Brian Eisch is lucky, maybe
President Obama will have his family sit with the First Lady during the State of the Union, or Vice President and Dr. Biden will invite them all to spend a weekend.

Frau Steingehirn

While growing up in Long Beach, my mother told me to look out for the sailors of the Seventh Fleet. She meant beware!

daddy

Frau,

Perchance did you see this story: ">http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/denglish-now-verboten-2171795.html"> 'Denglish' now verboten in Deutchsland .

Personally I don't care what they do as long as they don't change the brewing purity laws. See you next year guys. Bye Bye.

glasater

Let's not forget Cecil T is/was a Harrier pilot. Tough aircraft to fly.

Happy New Year daddy wherever you are:)

Elliott

'Denglish' now verboten in Deutchsland .

Also Sprach Das Sprachenfuehrer.

larry

Harrier than your average plane fer shure.

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Wilson/Plame