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January 12, 2011

Comments

clarice

Iowahawk:Kudos to President Obama for a moving speech. Shame on his handlers who arranged the Barnum & Bailey venue.
less than 10 seconds ago via web
______________

(David, he hired these guys and listens to them.)

Frau Schaufel

"Too bad he can't shovel the snow."

On the other hand, Obama *can* shovel carp quite well. I doubt he can properly handle a shovel any better than he did a mop.

centralcal

Jeeesh - I can spot a Secret Service agent guarding The Big O a mile away. They are all "skin heads!!!" Everyone of them has shaved their heads completely BALD!!! Melt into the crowd? I don't think so.

Jim Ryan

They switched from one manifestation of their derangement to another, Theo. There is no victory until this social disease is eliminated.

jean

That Gifford opened her eyes tonight for the first time doesn't make sense if the reports she was fallowing commands on Sun. or Mon. are true

Captain Hate

Krauthammer is as schizzy as Loughner

centralcal

Thank you Britt Hume - "this was not a memorial service, it was a pep rally!"

peter

Well, thank God, they did not truncate Modern Family. It's the only sitcom I watch.

Theo

Jim R --

The liberal elites are still with us, but they are not so "elite" any more. They throw their tantrums and no one listens or cares. They have lost the ability to influence much less shape the debate.

But you are right in one sense. A victory in this fight does not mean the end of the ideological war. But we should celebrate what has been accomplshed this week.

Jim Rhoads a/k/a vjnjagvet

How long did his speech take?

Rob Crawford

They need to reach out to the great mass of people with their message. He would not even deliver it. The liberal elites have been routed on this.

And now he gets a handjob from Krauthammer, et. al. on being "above the fray".

Then tomorrow he holds a meeting to see what the FCC can do to crack down on opposition voices hateful rhetoric.

It's a classic ploy, and you shouldn't fall for it.

Sara (Pal2Pal)

The eerie similarities between Tea Party conservatives and Jared Lee Loughner

image

Jim Ryan

Okay, Levin is playing Palin's message. This gal oozes common sense.

Janet

Expand our moral imagination (I've been googling)

He used it in his Nobel speech too -
"And yet, I do not believe that we will have the will, or the staying power, to complete this work without something more -- and that is the continued expansion of our moral imagination; an insistence that there is something irreducible that we all share."

Why do certain phrases & words become sketchy when leftists use them? Like peace or equality....moral imagination.

narciso

So the speech as read, was pretty good, except
the 'no one knows part' the idiot sheriff should have known, I suspect Sarah forced a rewrite to some degree of the tone of it. So
Rhodes gets his money's worth for the day, or maybe Favreau

bunky

Fox talking heads in a felatio contest. Fox is too funny when giving out the over praise.

Jane says obamasucks

I dunno, brit thought it was great as did Charles and Wallace. So ...

Sue

Will someone please remind Charles K. that Obama called the sheriff and thanked him.

Stephanie

Loved the Fox fellation of Obama tonight. Guess they're afraid if they say anything untoward, he'll back out of the Superbowl interview with BOR.

Assholes.

Dave (in MA)

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_Muq_KYGEBak/TSFDPPjFFEI/AAAAAAAACuY/FeExkW59hKo/s400/high%2Bspeed%2Bfail%2B1.jpg>
Example of the reasonable political rhetoric of the left. From the WI governor's race, mentioned on the Jason Lewis show.

Stephanie

Imagine there's no heaven... at a memorial rally? Really?

narciso

As for the aides in the Shipman report, Mansour wouldn't give her the time of day, and Crawford already said his piece, so I assume they just made it all up.

Rob Crawford

I dunno, brit thought it was great as did Charles and Wallace. So ...

They're Beltway animals. They're working on what they know will get the coverage: the text of Obama's speech, along with endless praise from the reporters for the greatest public speaker since the little guy with the funny 'stache.

clarice

what,narciso?

Janet

This is interesting....moral imagination is like the explanation for morals in a no God/Darwin evolution world view.

From The Evolution of God by Robert Wright -
"The moral imagination was ‘designed’ by natural selection . . . . . to help us cement fruitfully peaceful relations when they’re available."

sbw

Found on an envelope while cleaning the floor after the Tucson rally: "The world better note and long remember what I say here. . ."

Sara (Pal2Pal)

Via TalkLeft:

From the order (available on PACER)"
Based upon the circumstances occurring on January 8, 2011 in Tucson and the initiation of proceedings in conjunction with them, the impartiality of the District and Magistrate Judges in the District of Arizona might reasonably be questioned. It is therefore determined, pursuant to 28 U.S.C. § 455(a), all District and Magistrate Judges in the District of Arizona must be disqualified from presiding in this case and all related matters.

Accordingly, IT IS ORDERED all District and Magistrate Judges in the District of Arizona are recused from hearing case number 11-35M and all related matters.

The chief prosecutor will be Wallace H. Kleindienst. AUSA Patrick Cunningham has withdrawn. Entering their appearances to assist Kleindienst in the past few days are AUSA Mary Sue Feldmeier, Beverly K. Anderson, and Christina M. Cabanillas. So far the defense team consists of Judy Clarke, her associate Mark Fleming, and the Federal Defender's Office of San Diego.

bunky

Blast from the past: Did Hillary roll her eyes during W's address to Congress after 9-11?

Danube of Thought

Rich Lowry gives him high marks.

I'm coming away (based solely on what I read) that the setting was appallingly tasteless, but that his speech itself was very good.

bunky

Rich Lowry gave John Kerry high marks......

Sara (Pal2Pal)

that the setting was appallingly tasteless, but that his speech itself was very good.

Well "very good" is relative. It wasn't as horrendous as might be expected.

sbw

Our editorial today: Abusing a tragedy.

On the NY Times website, twenty minutes before the shooter had been identified by the Associated Press, Paul Krugman’s reflexive hate of Sarah Palin led him to blame her for the Tucson shootings. . . .

Many ideas picked up courtesy of the articulate JOM community. Thank you for helping me sort things out.

Specter

Yes..but compared to what it could have been I think his writers did an OK job of hitting somewhere near the middle of the road...

bgates

I'm coming away (based solely on what I read) that the setting was appallingly tasteless, but that his speech itself was very good.

Reading the text of the speech, I'm reminded of his 2004 convention address, which was filled with noble sentiments and turned out to be a gigantic lie.

tentacles

These book titles are strange and enbarrassing kinda like h wood and the actors.Audiences still get another Bond,although they are like the tv actors and writers;,not worthy the Bond.Palin and the others have you confused with Obama.

centralcal

I have decided that I no longer have ANY reliable media resources. Rich Lowry and Chas Krauthammer saw and heard a whole lot more than I did.

Time for cocktails and HGTV.

hit and run

I think the speech was just fine,except for length,which was awful. I don't think he delivered it in any way that could be described as inspirational. I thought the remembrances of the victims was stilted,but then trying to play too familiar with them like they were best friends could have come across as too phony. I thought the recognition of Daniel who saved Giffords's life,the two men who subdued the shooter along with Francis who wrested the magazine from him was good. I thought the "Gabby opened her eyes for the first time! She opened her eyes!" was rather tasteless. I thought he avoided the fray over a climate a hate just fine. It exceeded my expectations.

I thought the atmosphere was obscene.

For the way the audience was acting,there should have been a balloon drop and confettii at the end.

Sue

He called the sheriff and thanked him. Or did I dream that? Everything else is stuff. He called the sheriff that was blaming the deaths on you and me, the right wing of America, TEA partiers, and said THANK YOU. Screw Obama. Nothing he says is real. At least nothing he says that is scripted.

JM Hanes

YMMV, but I think Obama did a fine, if typically long, job. He was hardly responsible for the clapping, and I don't see any real reason to despise such spontaneity for its impropriety or to presume it hurt rather than encouraged some of those who lost loved ones, though it may have surprised them. People deal with grief in very different ways, not all of them sombre. Celebrating the heroism that was part and parcel of the tragedy was certainly appropriate, and I also think Obama threaded the civil discourse needle in unexpectedly gracious fashion. I'd have happily expunged the University guy's cloying introduction of the Prez, though, and the branding was a little over the top, but otherwise, I'd give Obama decent marks for striking the right notes on this one.

Charlie (Colorado)

I pretty much agreed with DoT, Krauthammer, and Professor Jacobson at Legal Insurrections. Lots of errors, but they found a grownup to write Obama's speech.

If Krugman, Kos, and all listened to the words of Obama's speech, there will be some sleepless nights tonight.

If Obama listened to the words of his speech, there'll be a sleepless night in the White House tonight.

clarice

Very nice, sbw.

It's nice to see you again, jmh!

Charlie (Colorado)

I really thought he'd said Gabbi opened her eyes when her Congressional colleagues visited, after he'd left.

Rob Crawford

Obama read words off a teleprompter. Words, words, nothing but words. His agents and allies have spent four days trying to hang this murder on us.

Which means more: actions or words?

Keep your eyes on the actions, and don't be like a Beltway 'tard and get blinded by blather.

bgates

I think the speech should be sold as part of a package with other inspirational words from famous people.

We could have "Civility", by Barack Obama;
"Monogamy", by Hugh Hefner;
"Fidelity", by John Edwards;
"Sobriety", by Lindsey Lohan....

Charlie (Colorado)

God, I hate to do this, sbw, but you meant "new criteria" or "a new criterion".

Rob Crawford

If Krugman, Kos, and all listened to the words of Obama's speech, there will be some sleepless nights tonight.

If Obama listened to the words of his speech, there'll be a sleepless night in the White House tonight.

The odds are better that I find four supermodels waiting in my bedroom tonight.

Jim Rhoads a/k/a vjnjagvet

It was too long and too preachy (as if he were the guest of honor). The audience was like a campaign rally. But the speech was better than it might have been for people like me who had very low expectations.

I'm not sure the political pundits realized it should not have been so focused on him.

Janet

A crime occurred & the President of the United States goes to speak at a rally? The whole thing is weird to me. Shown on all the networks?...it's just really too much.
Overblown drama is rampant in America, with endless blaming, blaming, blaming.
IMO the only sensible quote was from Sarah's statement - "President Reagan said, “We must reject the idea that every time a law’s broken, society is guilty rather than the lawbreaker. It is time to restore the American precept that each individual is accountable for his actions.”

Jim Ryan

Pawlenty's got campaign ads on now. I'm listening to one. Blech.

Levin is excellent as usual. I love Levin. Is it wrong for a man to love another man?

michaelt

How long before Obama's discourse slips away from civility and honesty?

And who will call him on it?

hit and run

JMH!!!
I'd have happily expunged the University guy's cloying introduction of the Prez

I missed that. I only turned on the tv as Obama was beginning.

But I thought the University Pres's follow up remarks after Obama's speech were too much.

I had mentally shifted in preparation for the moment of silence -- and the UofA president basically saying (not in so many words), "how about a standing ovation for those unprecedented inspirational words from our awesome President!" was an unwelcomed jolt to my frame of mind.

bgates

He was hardly responsible for the clapping

Except to the extent that he had control over where the event was held, who was in attendance, and whether or not they all got matching t-shirts. All of which he had total control over.

Frau Schaufel

It seems TOTUS had the day off. One newspaper article revealed that the speech was "off the cuff."

Yes, JMH, it's good to see you.

sbw

Charlie, I'm tough. I can take it.

Rob Crawford

One newspaper article revealed that the speech was "off the cuff."

And yet the text was released in advance.

Ugh. Went to watch a show the DVR recorded, and it was Obama in mid-speech. He was doing the "New Soviet Man Looking Bravely Into The Future" pose.

Frau Schaufel

ChaCo - I think the lefties will hear their own version of the message. For them, hatred and violence do not come from their quarters.

Jane says obamasucks

Palin just eliminated her chance of gaining the presidency. Being whiny and bitchy isn't presidential and doesn't inspire voters.

narciso

How long have you been here, Leo, and you still have no clue, how we write.

Charlie (Colorado)

On the other hand, sbw, I just Tatled on you.

Charlie (Colorado)

The odds are better that I find four supermodels waiting in my bedroom tonight.

Hey, I said "if", not "when".

I don't even remember where I stole the line tonight, but someone told me "Democrats are like vampires. When they look in a mirror they can't see anything."

ChaCo - I think the lefties will hear their own version of the message. For them, hatred and violence do not come from their quarters.

Oh, I promise. See my piece on Tatler and look for the comments by "Josh".

Charlie (Colorado)

Charlie, I'm tough. I can take it.

It's frightening what a couple years of editing does to your eye, isn't it?

daddy

Haven't read the thread, but FWIW, we caught the last 5-10 minutes of the speech.

My lefty wife was appalled. "Are they cheering?..." she kept asking incredulous, "...at a Memorial service?"

That was my barometer of the event. She thought it disgusting and was embarrassed at the thing. She thought it was Wellstone 2.

Stephanie

Hillary takes a fall

LUN

Charlie (Colorado)

That was my barometer of the event. She thought it disgusting and was embarrassed at the thing. She thought it was Wellstone 2.

Daddy, the difference was that they were cheering because they were idiots, and frankly whoever did the advance work were idiots too. (Tee shirts and upbeat blue logos? Idiots.) But other than the President of U of A, they weren't being whipped into a frenzy by the speakers.

clarice

That was nice of you to do, Charlie. Tatler's still so new to me I forgot how easy that is to do.

Yeah it's me Cleo

I'm swimming in a puddle of booze, downers and urine. As usual.

Charlie (Colorado)

I'm swimming in a puddle of booze, downers and urine. As usual.

Backstroke, I hope.

Stephanie

The Buck stops at Obama. Plus the logo came out twenty four plus hours ago and has been all over the net. No one on his iphone text messaging list put a bug in his ear that this was not a good idea? Bullshit. They all thought it was great. And it smacks of the president in waiting bullshit from the campaign trail, too.

I figure Michelle and Valerie handled the details. Who else would he really trust when his ass is on the line? This was the boob belt of memorials all the way around. Inappropriate, tasteless and not done appropriately.

clarice

Good night. Sleep tight. And don't use mean words. Czarina C

Rick Ballard

What a wonderful speech! I was particularly taken by the profundity and clarity of this passage:

So yes, we must examine all the facts behind this tragedy. We cannot and will not be passive in the face of such violence. We should be willing to challenge old assumptions in order to lessen the prospects of violence in the future.

Who among us could remain unmoved to down a large dose of Pepto Bismol or another, perhaps stronger, antacid upon hearing the President of the United States resort to a level of banality so jejune as to make even the most puerile of adolescents cringe in repulsion?

Perhaps he did write it himself.

Stephanie

We cannot and will not be passive in the face of such violence.

Get in their faces, punch back twice as hard.

We should be willing to challenge old assumptions in order to lessen the prospects of violence in the future.

That old constitution needs an update doesn't it? The first and second amendments would be a good place to start.

ROA

Since the president called tea party members “teabaggers” would it be acceptable in this new era of civility to use similar words and describe liberals as “c**ks*****s”?

narciso

Yes, Steph, 'negative liberties' don't you know.

Janet

We should be willing to challenge old assumptions in order to lessen the prospects of violence in the future.

???? What does THIS mean??? I don't get Obama at all. What assumption of mine should I challenge to lessen the prospect of violence? My assumption that the strangers around me are not crazy dangerous shooters?
Should I assume they ARE, & thus arm myself?
Maybe I need to expand my moral imagination more.

Threadkiller

It means "monkey god", Janet

Rob Crawford

Since the president called tea party members “teabaggers” would it be acceptable in this new era of civility to use similar words and describe liberals as “c**ks*****s”?

The preferred form of that is "s***ers of c***".

Janet

Here is a photo of one of the mourners. I just can's relate to the whole production at all.
The Denver Post article (where I got the picture link) is titled "Obama to be Nation's Consoler at Memorial Service".

Janet

It means "monkey god", Janet

LOL! TK, you're just trying to set me off!

Stephanie

But at a time when our discourse has become so sharply polarized – at a time when we are far too eager to lay the blame for all that ails the world at the feet of those who think differently than we do – it’s important for us to pause for a moment and make sure that we are talking with each other in a way that heals, not a way that wounds.

Yeah, that was some non-partisan rally.

:eyeroll:

narciso

Doc Zero has a good take on it, in the LUN

Dave (in MA)
Since the president called tea party members “teabaggers” would it be acceptable in this new era of civility to use similar words and describe liberals as “c**ks*****s”?

(D-baggers.)

Rick Ballard

Janet,

I'm sorry - perhaps I should have put the passage in the context of what preceded it:

For the truth is that none of us can know exactly what triggered this vicious attack. None of us can know with any certainty what might have stopped those shots from being fired, or what thoughts lurked in the inner recesses of a violent man’s mind.

and what followed it:

But what we can’t do is use this tragedy as one more occasion to turn on one another. As we discuss these issues, let each of us do so with a good dose of humility. Rather than pointing fingers or assigning blame, let us use this occasion to expand our moral imaginations, to listen to each other more carefully, to sharpen our instincts for empathy, and remind ourselves of all the ways our hopes and dreams are bound together.

There, now it's much easier to understand.

Especially if you're a murderer in the custody of Sheriff Dipstick in Tucson.

It's actually gibberish carefully blended with pap.

Sara (Pal2Pal)

I just saw an ad for Eco-Imagination by GE where all the performers were line dancing to a parody of Boot Scootin' Boogey. Is this like moral imagination?

Rob Crawford

What assumption of mine should I challenge to lessen the prospect of violence?

I think you'll find the assumptions to be questioned listed in the Declaration of Independence, and the particulars that are to be dealt with enumerated in the Bill of Rights.

maryrose

I agree with you Janet. This whole fiasco is inappropriate and wrong. The entire population of americans has not been traumatized by this event. It's wrong to try to attain political advantage at the expense of those grieving and heartbroken. I think the backlash has yet to come but when it does it will be fierce. The cheering and clapping and whooping it up is just insensitive and boorish. The t-shirt thing is so over the top that I am stunned by it.Obama has been in trouble in Arizona and this is his penance in order to try to win them back for 2012.

PD

Carp. I just went to watch my DVRed tonight's episode of Human Target and guess what I got instead.

I guess a show with a name like "Human Target" is gonna be RIP soon, huh?

Pofarmer

"moral imaginations"

What tne fuck? I mean really!

Jim Ryan

Alright, alright, alright, folks. "Moral imagination" is a technical term in professional philosophy amongst profs who specialize in ethics. It is largely BS, though some profs make good use of it. It is not a liberal term, per se. In fact a conservative colleague of mine wrote a book on it. It has to do with being able to imagine competing ways of life, types of character, and courses of action in order to evaluate which is better (or if you're a liberal you use it to don't evaluate you just go with what feels good.) Intelligence requires some imagination. Yada yada.

It was ridiculous of Zero to use the term precisely because it was technical. He was appealing for an eyebrow raise from avid NYT readers who have family incomes of over $130K. Reading the NYT, they have seen the term a time or two in some of the "intellectual" columns or book reviews. Zero is a pseudo-intellectual. Real intellectuals do not drop technical terms in order to impress people.

Pofarmer

"Should I assume they ARE, & thus arm myself?"

Arm yourself anyway-for the children.

Jim Ryan

Dollars to donuts a liberal Harvard phil prof is part of Zero's "brain trust" and has been telling Zero that the American public needs help with its "moral imagination" in order to see how great socialism is going to be. Don't doubt that that prof couldn't find his ass with both hands. Hence the hippy dippy Lennon tune "Imagine" was played at the rally (so I've read here.)

Stephanie

"Moral imaginations"

Eureka! Now I know why Obama wants to restrict the internet. He's announced a crusade against the immoral imaginations found there.

Gad, what an intolerant, theocratic leader. I thought dems didn't care if I wanted to have kinky sex and that they didn't want to force their morals on me.

My bad.

Sara (Pal2Pal)

Hmmm. Could this be fact?

Obama Speech May Have Undercut Federal Charges For Killing Of Judge Roll

It may have been inadvertent, but a passage in President Barack Obama’s speech to a memorial service it Tucson Wednesday night could undercut a criminal charge federal prosecutors have leveled at suspect Jared Loughner for the death of U.S. District Court Judge John Roll in a shooting rampage Saturday.

“Judge Roll was recommended for the federal bench by John McCain 20 years ago, appointed by President George H.W. Bush, and rose to become Arizona’s chief federal judge,” Obama told the crowd at the University of Arizona. Roll’s “colleagues described him as the hardest-working judge within the Ninth Circuit. He was on his way back from attending mass, as he did every day, when he decided to stop by and say, ‘Hi,’ to his representative.”

In the complaint supporting Loughner’s arrest, federal prosecutors argue that Roll wasn’t simply seeking to pay a social call on Rep. Gabrielle Giffords (D-Ariz.) when he showed up at the community outreach event where the shooting spree took place Saturday. Prosecutors and the FBI insist that Roll “was engaged in official duties” because he wanted to talk to Giffords and her staffers about problems with a surging caseload in federal courts in Arizona, particularly along the Mexican border.

Loughner’s alleged killing of Roll may only be a crime under federal law if Roll was on business and not merely stopping by to say hi to a friend.

Stephanie

Obama aims for the sky, shoots his foot after all.

"Judge Roll was recommended for the federal bench by John McCain 20 years ago, appointed by President George H.W. Bush, and rose to become Arizona's chief federal judge," Obama told the crowd at the University of Arizona. Roll's "colleagues described him as the hardest-working judge within the Ninth Circuit. He was on his way back from attending mass, as he did every day, when he decided to stop by and say, 'Hi,' to his representative."

In the complaint supporting Loughner's arrest, federal prosecutors argue that Roll wasn't simply seeking to pay a social call on Rep. Gabrielle Giffords (D-Ariz.) when he showed up at the community outreach event where the shooting spree took place Saturday. Prosecutors and the FBI insist that Roll "was engaged in official duties" because he wanted to talk to Giffords and her staffers about problems with a surging caseload in federal courts in Arizona, particularly along the Mexican border.

LUN

Wouldn't knowingly pressing a false charge in a prosecution get Holder in just a wee bit of hot water and cause serious problems for the prosecution like a dismissal with prejudice?

Stephanie

Damn. JINX.

Jim Rhoads a/k/a vjnjagvet

I've read the complaint and the affidavit supporting it. The Complaint alleged the bit about the "surging caseload" as did the affidavit. The federal statute under which Loughner was charged is for murder of a federal employee "in the performance of his official duties". That what makes it a federal crime as opposed to garden variety murder over which Arizona has jurisdiction.

Since the performance official duties is an element of the federal crime, any evidence to the contrary helps Loughner.

SoBa

Longtime lurker here but have to ask: Did anyone see the AP coverage of the speech? Avoid it if you have a weak stomach.

Charlie (Colorado)

That Gifford opened her eyes tonight for the first time doesn't make sense if the reports she was fallowing commands on Sun. or Mon. are true

Jean, actually it does. They'll have been keeping her in a drug-induced coma for most of the time, because that reduces the intracranial pressure -- although they've probably taken off most of the left side of her skull at this point, so "intracranial" is sort of a misnomer. When they're doing so, they tape your eyes shut, because people in coma sometimes open their eyes slightly but don't blink, which causes corneal damage.

Sara (Pal2Pal)

So moral imagination is nothing more than what we used to call "walking in someone else's shoes," or intuition?

Charlie (Colorado)

They're Beltway animals.

Goddamit, is it JUST POSSIBLE someone could have a different reaction than you do without bering stupid, morally suspect, or incapable of independent thinking because of where they live?

JM Hanes

Hi guys!

Dang, PD, I was about to watch my tivo'd version of Human Target for a much wanted change of pace....

Sara:

Arizona is a death penalty state, so I wonder if the end result might be more satisfactory than it would be in a federal venue amyway. Depending I suppose on what sort of insanity defense AZ allows?

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