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January 08, 2011

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daddy

TM,

Commenter number 7 to the original New York Times Science story posted above makes the 2 really important points we were all waiting for:

1: "If we stop eating (killing) animals we might learn how to stop killing humans."

2: "And no, plants do not scream in pain when you eat them…"

Kumbaya:)

Jack is Back!

I wonder if Tom Friedman is on the bamboo shoots and carbon-free tofu diet being espoused? After all he is totally Chinese now.

BobDenver

No wonder Clinton looks like hell.

clarice

I am with the stars of the Nov 2010 Atlantic Monthly piece who note that nutritional research is largely crap.
LUN

See tomorrow's CP for more on my thoughts about medical research.

When Dr Atkins was popular (I still find it generally works for me as long as I can stand it) and the medical and nutritional establishments attacked it, they neglected to note a couple of things:(1) there is not a single reliable study linking dietary cholesterol with blood cholesterol and (2) studies "have gone back and forth on the health benefits of eating fat and carbs and even on the question of whether being overweight is more likely to extend or shorten your life."(3) Changes in" markers like cholesterol levels,
blood pressure, and blood-sugar levels often don't correlate as well with long-term health as we have been led to believe."


Maybe livin on nuts and berries just makes it seem like you're living longer.

(Another) Barbara

For those interested, there's a compelling critique of The China Study on the blog of Dr. Michael Eades.

http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/cancer/the-china-study-vs-the-china-study/

Neo

Sugar, soluble carbohydrates, and fiber all have correlations with cancer mortality about seven times the magnitude of that with animal protein, and total fat and fat as a percentage of calories were both negatively correlated with cancer mortality.

Steaks it is for lunch !!

Dumb Show.

Hey, if anyone's in the mood we can get all worked up about Flouride. The HHS is dropping the recommendation for flouridated water from 1.2 mg/L to 0.7 mg/L
==============

peter

Another Barbara, I read Dr. Michael Eades' book,(lun) about the middle age middle. I found it had a lot of solid information but the recipes and diet recommendations put me off.

clarice

Of course, dumb show. It steals our precious bodily fluids. Everyone knows that,

clarice

Julia Childs':"the more butter the better" is my motto.

Rob Crawford

"If your great-grandmother wouldn't recognize it, it's not whole unprocessed food."

Whoohoo! A diet of pickles, whiskey, hominy, apple butter, bread, and beer!

clarice

Years ago--also in the Atlantic--a scientist who works with biological statistics, surmised that artherosclerosis was really caused by some low grade infection--made a very persuasive argument for his hypothesis.

A google check indicates that there is now greater attention being paid to this notion: http://www.americanheart.org/presenter.jhtml?identifier=4648
"There is also research that indicates an infection — possibly one caused by a bacteria or a virus — might contribute to or even cause atherosclerosis. The infectious bacteria, Chlamydia pneumoniae (klah-MID'e-ah nu-MO'ne-i), has been shown to have a significant association to atherosclerotic plaque. The herpes simplex virus has also been proposed as an initial inflammatory infectious agent in atherosclerosis.

The notion that chronic infection can lead to unsuspected disease isn't foreign to most doctors. For example, bacterial infection with Helicobacter pylori is now known to be the major cause of stomach ulcers. The treatment for this condition now routinely includes antibiotic therapy. "

Ignatz

--In the meantime, Prof. Campbell has taken a shrewd approach - he genuflects towards the dietary fat hypothesis and invokes the current China fad, so he ought to have a hit.--

On a home made cigarette?

*************************

My wife cut refined sugar and flour products out of our diets a few years ago and within a couple of months I had dropped twenty pounds even though I was eating as much as ever and if anything, the food tastes better .

caro

ABarb,that link is interesting. It feels like the diet wars must be political. I enjoyed the lesson in critical reading. Thanks!

clarice

Abarb's link is good. The truth I think is that observational studies are fairly useless, there are so many variables in diet it's hard to imagine a worthwhile nutritional study and the area has become totally politicized. If you want to know who is responsible for a great deal of American overweight--look at our govt, the AMA, the AHA ,and Conagra which in 1992 revised the food pyramid and told use to eat more grains (7-11 servings a day per adult).

HeatherRadish

"If your great-grandmother wouldn't recognize it, it's not whole unprocessed food."

She made her pie crusts--and they had pie several times a week--with lard.

I could live like this...

daddy

UH OH,

12 shot at an Arizona Political rally, including a Dem Congresswoman.

Shooter in custody. Breaking.

Charlie (Colorado)

Heather, lard -- old fashioned tub lard, not the block stuff which is somewhat hydrogenated -- is high in monounsaturated fatty acids and long-chain stearic acid, which are comparatively healthy fats. Go for it.

More generally, I went onto the radically low carb diet last Sunday, and have lost 13 lbs so far. I'm doing the variant where you have one high-carb day a week, which is both more tolerable -- when I started to crave a peanut putter and jelly sandwich on Thursday I knew I could have one soon if I were still craving it -- and has some evidence of producing more effective weight and fat loss.

The day before my greatest single day weight loss, I had a four egg omelet with olive-oil herb-marinated mozzarella, two double whoppers with cheese but no bread (Burger King will make those for you on request) and a one-pound rib eye steak drizzled with herbed olive oil (since I had it from the mozzarella) and about 2 cups of rustic upland Greek salad, ie, tomatoes, feta cheese, onions, cucumbers, and olive with a red wine vinegar vinaigrette with dill and thyme.

The day before that dinner was about 1.5 lbs of marinated grilled shoulder lamb chops.

The sacrifices one makes, sigh.

I don't have bloods for this pass yet, but when I did this two years ago, I lost about 50 lbs and at the end my total cholesterol was 92. I had to go off statins because my tsc was getting unhealithily low.

Charlie (Colorado)

AND I'm less cranky (but don't push your luck) AND I don't feel the need for a mid-afternoon nap.

Tony B

Congresswomen Giffords is a Blue Dog Dem. She is for secure boarders and did not vote for Pelosi the other day for majority leader.

Media will try to blame tea party but most likely shooting is a case of Libs Gone Wild!

Charlie (Colorado)

By the way, in the 60's, this no-bread, no-potatoes, no-sugar thing was called a "diabetic diet".

Charlie (Colorado)

Intuition, not evidence, but I'm betting on a Mexican drug cartel thing.

clarice

The lo carb diet does work..though it is disgusting how much more quickly all diets work on men. Good you take a day's break.

Carbquik is a product you may want to order. It will allow you to make low carb things like pancakes and muffins. Dreamfields pasta is another brand you need to become acquainted with.

One other good thing about lo carb is that it's easier to maintain when you are traveling and permits you to join friends for meals out without wrecking the diet.


OT but Bush proven right again on Saddam--this time by the Guardian which naturally still finds a way to blame him.
AT
January 08, 2011
Saddam's WMD stockpile raided by Al Qaeda on 2003
Clarice Feldman


Barcepundit reports on this story from the left wing UK Guardian, which details how in the early days of the Iraq war Al Qaeda was able to get its hands on a huge store of Saddam's weapons:

According to the piece, the material included chemical weapons precursors, as well as explosive used to detonate nuclear weapons (yes, they had been in store for years, but if they're deadly for al-Qaeda to have, wouldn't they be for Saddam too?)

So the Guardian doesn't note the irony that they're blaming Bush and the U.S. for the negligence of allowing al-Qaeda to steal... what wasn't supposed to be there in the first place. Haven't we been listening all these years that this was "based on filthy lies"?

Jane the hostage taker

Now reporting that Giffords is still alive - I hope the shooter is an illegal.

narciso

And they are using as witness, an AQterrorist,
who slipped back into Syria, they are shameless in their blame America and the UK first.

The Reichstag burns.

Not illegal and not cartel related.
=============

LouP

It never ceases to amaze me how all these obtuse discussions on nutrition, diet, growing obesity, etc., never mention the contribution of w*rk or exercise to maintaing weight ("w*rk" is apparently a dirty word these days).

No study of diet and nutrition and their effects on the body is complete without delving into the population's lifestyles with regard to burning calories.

Too bad they don't have an exercise pill yet.

Danube of Thought

I once had the exquisite pleasure of taking the deposition of Durk Pearson, he of "Life Extensions" fame and a frequent Johnny Carson guest. His thesis was that you could live to about 120 if only you ate the right things, all of which were borderline inedible and, at best, quite ghastly and revolting. Wish I had saved the transcript of that one.

larry

Thoughts and prayers for Rep Giffords, the other victims and their families. Cartel related or not, sooner or later the Corona Cartel will wipe out the Dos Equis, Oso Negro, Jose Cuervo, San Miguel, Carta Blanca, Tecate, Bohemia, Ron Rico and Bacardi Cartels. Lawlessness begets lawlessness. Wots 'at you say? There are no beer cartels? Alcohol is legal and they don't use deadly force to eliminate competition for obscene profits made selling illegal substances? Well blow me down! Hmmmmmmm.

MayBee

"If your great-grandmother wouldn't recognize it, it's not whole unprocessed food."

My dad recalls his grandfather eating a donut slathered with fatback for breakfast every morning.

Pedro Gomez

Guaranteed shooter backed by mexican cartel.

narciso

Except we still had the Gambino, Lucchesem Genovese, Marcello, cartels you might say,
not to mention the Russian and Italian affiliates

larry

Gambino, Lucchese, etc. cartels arose during prohibition, remember?

narciso

Yes, but the end of prohibition didn't get rid of them, that's the point.

clarice

I wish you'd saved the transcript, too. DoT. It never ceases to amaze me how no matter what else we do Americans still have such a puritanical contempt for food that tastes good.

larry

And a good point it is, Narciso, but they're no longer engaged in open warfare as far as I can tell.

Carol.Herman

Excuse me. People didn't live long enough! While the beer drinking is on par with tea drinking. You're killing the "bugs" in the water. Since most water "back then" contained fecal matter.

And, people got sick from other stuff.

What needs to be counted are the vaccinations. And, penicillin. The health benefits that increased life spans.

You mean you didn't know? When "65" was plucked out of the hat as a time to pay off people for "their old age" ... most people were gone before 65.

Not that eating plant life wasn't a life saver; as long as you could recognize the bad mushrooms. Today? Today, you need skill just translating the ingredients inside the box.

On the other hand, I laughed at the thought that Bill Clinton is eating a lot of beans. While most politicians talk about the "food" they get, as being on the "chicken circuit."

Carol.Herman

Mark Twain's autobiography just got published. He wanted 100 years to pass. And, it did. Among his collected stories, is one he tells when he was in Hawaii. And, men rescued from a clipper ship that had gone down ... And, had been out at see for months ... related that the starvation conditions actually made people who had been sick, healthier.

One such sailor had "abscesses." But during the period of starvation, they ceased to exist. Two passengers, who had been on the clipper ship, where brothers. Who had taken the trip because one of the brothers was very sick. He not only survived the starvation, his prior illness didn't kill him.

So? Well, it seems there's a theory that if you give up food intake your body repairs. First I ever heard this mentioned. But if the theory works, then two days (more or less) without food, could be a cure.

So much for the theory that if you feed a cold, it goes away.

Or if you read a book you get thinner.

Ignatz

--I once had the exquisite pleasure of taking the deposition of Durk Pearson, he of "Life Extensions" fame and a frequent Johnny Carson guest.--

I remember him on the old Merv Griffin show back in the 70s. Struck me as a motor-mouthed nut even then.

Lupe J

Fed Judge Roll the target at Giffords shooting???

Tony B

Hot Air:
"Update (AP): Exercise caution since names can be mistaken, but I’m getting multiple tips that this YouTube channel — created by “Jared Lee Loughner” — could be the gunman’s. There are three manifesto-type clips there; the one below is called “Final Thoughts” and was posted last month. As Jon Henke said on Twitter, he sounds like an anarchist, complaining about “currency that’s not backed by gold and silver” and how “you don’t have to accept the federalist laws.”"
LUN
----------------------------------

Yep, Libs gone Wild.

 Ann

Ton B:

The video has him burning a U.S. flag. Yep

Tony B

Hotair:
"Update (AP): Here’s a list of favorite books from Loughner’s YouTube profile. One is by Ayn Rand, a few others are even more famous:

I had favorite books: Animal Farm, Brave New World, The Wizard Of OZ, Aesop Fables, The Odyssey, Alice Adventures Into Wonderland, Fahrenheit 451, Peter Pan, To Kill A Mockingbird, We The Living, Phantom Toll Booth, One Flew Over The Cuckoo’s Nest, Pulp,Through The Looking Glass, The Communist Manifesto, Siddhartha, The Old Man And The Sea, Gulliver’s Travels, Mein Kampf, The Republic, and Meno."
LUN
----------------------------

I don't think most tea partiers are fans of The Communist Manifesto. Luckily most libs are afraid of guns or we would have incidents like this every day.

Thomas Collins

Has anyone read Krugman's comments on the Arizona shooting? See LUN. Despicable is too kind a word to apply to Krugman's comments.

I'm praying for the injured and killed, and their families, and trying to keep that foremost in my mind in the moment. However, I do hope that Krugman's attempt to use the shootings to score anti-Tea Party points won't go unanswered.

reliapundit

i recommend a steady diet of bullshit.

because, bullshit must have no calories since if it did, then all pol's and journolists would be obese.

daddy

TC,

I'm with you on disgust with Krugman. And the man is too much of a coward to allow folks to comment.

clarice

These guys really do suffer ffrom projection, don't they?

In any event Loughner's manifesto sounds more like Krugman than anything. Maybe it's a case of psychotics sticking together.

Danube of Thought

I always bear in mind that if there were an easy way to lose weight (or keep it off) there wouldn't be any fat people.

Janet

Very true DoT. Compare # of books written about dieting vs. gaining weight!

daddy

Clarice,

If you listened to Cokie Robert's today you heard her putting out the vile meme that Republican's don't want to see jobless Americans going back to work because its more valuable in defeating Obama to keep them unemployed. Link.">http://www.newsbusters.org/blogs/ron-futrell/2011/01/08/cokie-roberts-wonders-do-republicans-really-want-see-jobs-increase">Link.

She generally hides her hatred of the right better than Krugman, but fundamentally she's right in there with the rest of them.

cathyf
There is also research that indicates an infection — possibly one caused by a bacteria or a virus — might contribute to or even cause atherosclerosis.
Interesting trivia about aspirin and heart disease...

When the studies were done that showed that taking one baby aspirin per day reduced heart attack risk, the logic was that aspirin is a mild blood thinner, and that was the effect that reduced the heart risk. So the general recommendation was promulgated and widely adopted, because it is cheap, easy, relatively harmless. But some significant minority of the population cannot take aspirin -- either they've had an allergic reaction, or they have a history of gastric bleeding. And, quite simply, people being the way people are, there were lots of folks who got the message garbled* and took a baby tylenol instead. But the interesting thing is that tylenol works, too! It now seems more likely that it was the anti-inflammatory property of the aspirin, not the blood-thinning, that was causing the good effect.

-------
* Reminds me of an old silly joke I learned back in junior high. A man with 8 children goes to the doctor, desperate to stop having more. "Put the rubber on the organ," the doctor told him. Four months later, the man comes in with his wife, who is pregnant again. "Didn't you do what I told you?" "Well, we don't have an organ so we put the galoshes on the piano..."

sbw

Typhus may have dropped this:

Krugman is sick--symptoms: diarrhea of the mouth.

clarice

Beween this stuff and the handling of the shooting in Az, you can see why I do not ever bother getting news from radio or tv. Morons are the reporters. There is time to be filled. They fill it with nonsense. All that's bad for your brain.

I'll bet he knows something we don't.

I can't wait for Bill in Az to check in.
=================

clarice

As for Cokie's remarks, I am sorry to say that I don't know how else you can read Krauthammer's nonsense a week or so ago when he pummeled the Republicans on the tax bill. As far as I can tell that unfortunate column carried the suggestion that an improving economy would be good for Obama and the Republicans were wrong to compromise in order to avoid watching the economy further nose dive.

Of course. most on the right were very critical of his view.

Thomas Collins

Seahawks not playing the unworthy playoff team role so far. Seattle 24, New Orleans 20 at the half.

Tim Buktu

It's all about the beans. That seems to be a key message from 'The 4-Hour Body'. In fact, Tex/Mex sans tortillas and rice might be the perfect meal. Turbo-charge effects with icy showers (said to also cure depression). OK, I got the book for Christmas and this is day five. What I like most is the mandatory 'day off' once a week and remedy for stalled weight loss - eat more! What's not to like?

Atkie works great but,eventually, bread and pasta cravings get to me. Beans, so far, take the edge off in a big way.

clarice

Reminds me of "Tortilla flat" where the illiterate mom fed her kids nothing but beans and the gringos, thinking that was an unhealthy diet, brought in al sorts of protein,fruit and veggies and the kids got sick on that.

Charlie (Colorado)

No study of diet and nutrition and their effects on the body is complete without delving into the population's lifestyles with regard to burning calories.

Ah, but Lou, it turns out that Taubes' books do delve into that very relationship, only to discover that there appears to be little correlation. Across a very broad spectrum, it doesn't much matter how much exercise a population gets, obesity correlates with refined simple carbs, not caloric intake nor with caloric output.

Tony B

Shooter's high school bud describes shooter as "left wing"

http://twitter.com/caitieparker
LUN

However, no indication of his carb intake.


Janet

However, no indication of his carb intake.

LOL, Tony B.! Speculate, that seems to be the order of the day.

Jim Ryan

Charlie, beans? Because I can eat me some beans. Are beans okay? They seem a bit simple carby.

Janet

Beans? How does the kid's rhyme go...??

Beans, beans the magical fruit.
The more you eat, the more you toot.
The more you toot, the better you feel.
So eat more beans for every meal.

Dave (in MA)

@Thomas Collins | January 08, 2011 at 06:13 PM
Pete the Poodle has 'em pumped and jacked.

hit and run

No reason for anyone to heed my advice -- but if you want to talk AZ shooting -- the Saturday Morning Open Thread is where it's at.

Stephanie

Beans, beans, are good for your heart,
The more you eat, the more you fart,
The more you fart, the better you feel,
So eat your beans at every meal.

Potty humor - don't ya just love it?

A fart can be quiet,
A fart can be loud,
Some leave a powerful,
Poisonous cloud.

A fart can be short,
Or a fart can be long,
Some farts have been known,
To sound like a song.

Some farts do not smell,
While others are vile,
A fart may pass quickly,
Or linger awhile.

A fart can create
A most-curious medley,
A fart can be harmless,
Or silent, but deadly.

A fart can occur
In a number of places,
And leave everyone
With strange looks on their faces.

From wide-open prairies,
To small elevators,
A fart will find all of us
Sooner or later.

So be not afraid
Of the invisible gas,
For always remember,
Farts, too, shall pass.

DrJ

Since this thread is getting breezy, may I offer Mr. Methane?

(Another) Barbara

I'm doing the variant where you have one high-carb day a week, which is both more tolerable -- when I started to crave a peanut putter and jelly sandwich on Thursday I knew I could have one soon if I were still craving it -- and has some evidence of producing more effective weight and fat loss.

I'm curious about whose variant that is, Charlie -- and what is the evidence it produces more effective fat loss. Sounds to me like it would keep one's addiction to carbs going, and would cause metabolic confusion and take you out of ketosis again. Reminds me of when I thought I could smoke only at parties. After a while, all I did was look for parties.

LouP

"Across a very broad spectrum, it doesn't much matter how much exercise a population gets, obesity correlates with refined simple carbs, not caloric intake nor with caloric output."

And to that I say emphatically BS!

Janet

Reminds me of when I thought I could smoke only at parties. After a while, all I did was look for parties.

Hahaha...that's the state I'm in...lookin' for parties!

and a thank you to Stephanie & DrJ. After posting the bean poem I was feeling a little low class. Apparently I'm not alone. Thank God Mr. Methane was unknown to me. I feel better about myself! :)

Stephanie

Heh. I've got friends in low places.

Have you seen this?


LUN

Janet

NO! I have NOT seen that before...& why would you assume I had?! Hahaha
Gerbils are #10 on the top farters list? I would have never guessed that.

Stephanie

It's put out by OnlineEducation.net.

To quote Brad Pitt in Mr and Mrs. Smith: It's reputable. ;)

larry

"Justified", the Fox series inspired by Elmore Leonard, is running in marathon on FX. Highly recommended if you like dark and quirky stuff.

Charlie (Colorado)

Charlie, beans? Because I can eat me some beans. Are beans okay? They seem a bit simple carby.

Jim, beans seem to cause me trouble, at least on the initial low carb thing. If you really want to go hard core, get a glucometer: if a meal makes your blood glucose go up and stay up for an hour after a meal, something in the meal is too much for your pancreas.

Charlie (Colorado)

And to that I say emphatically BS!

So, since you haven't read the book and clearly don't care what the evidence is, the hell with you.

Charlie (Colorado)

Barb, I don't know where it originated. I first did it while doing Body for Life, and the Four Hour guy also recommends it, even saying it increases weight loss. It has seemed to work well enough for me.


I will say I don't think "addiction" is quite the right model here. There are plenty of good reasons why we instinctively like refined carbs and sweets; they just got to be too easy to come by for some of us.

I think it's a better model to think of it, if anything, as an inherited lipodystrophy: some of us just have endocrine systems that respond to high glycemic index carbs "abnormally" -- at least as compared with the vile, naturally skinny, eat anything people -- by depositing lots of fat in the white adipocytes, and that leads to obesity, insulin resistance, and then lots of complications.

clarice

Since this fits (though I should have cited TM's conflicting diet posts)
http://www.americanthinker.com/2011/01/clarices_pieces_be_scientific.html

sbw

Nice piece, Clarice. I forwarded the pointer to my journalism teacher wife.

(Another) Barbara

I think it's a better model to think of it, if anything, as an inherited lipodystrophy...

Yeah, I know, Charlie. (In case you happen to return to this thread) Nonetheless, Taubes, Eades, Atkins, etc. use the shorthand "addiction" when they describe that physiology. Only sayin' that having a weekly cheat day to eagerly anticipate keeps the appetite for those foods thriving, rather than concluding that sugar and grains are what one will avoid for a lifetime. Otherwise it's too easy to succumb (or have "surcame" if you're Cornel West)to the seductions of stuff that harms us. The food that's "legal" for low-carbers is so delicious and satisfying that every day feels like a cheat day.

DebinNC

(Another) Barbara, thanks so much for your informative commentary on Taubes et al. Taubes recommended The New Atkins for a New You, which has 35 pgs. of recipes in 5 catagories: Sauces, Compound Butters and Oils, Salad Dressings, Marinades and Rubs, and Broths. Can you recommend a favorite cookbook for this style of eating that is more familiar with categories like Beef, Poultry, Fish, Salads, etc., and recipes for each dish? Thanks again for your excellent contributions.

jaed

I like Dana Carpender's cookbooks, in particular "500 Low-Carb Recipes". More of a basic home-cooking approach, lots of recipes for various meats, vegetable dishes, stews and soups, etc.

There's also "Everyday Low Carb Cooking" by Alex Haas. His recipes are very good, although he wants to put sweetener in almost everything for some reason and I ignore this ingredient unless it's a dish that's supposed to be sweet.

"The Low-Carb Gourmet" by Karen Barnaby is fancier cooking but OMG nom nom. Impress your dinner guests with the parmesan-crusted cauliflower.

DebinNC

Thanks so much for the excellent suggestions, jaed. I checked out all three at Amazon and ordered the Dana Carpender book.

(Another) Barbara

If you see this, Debin NC... (I was late getting back to this thread, thinking it had fallen out of favor for the moment)

The cookbook in which I've found the most interesting and tasty recipes for my household is "The Ultimate Low-Carb Diet Cookbook" by Donna Pliner Rodnitzky. Fran McCullough's are also good, and so are Dana Carpender's, which you've already ordered.

One thing that's true though: You don't really need a cookbook as you become acquainted with what you want to avoid and what you want to eat. That probably takes awhile and some practice and experimentation, but you will soon be able to adopt family favorites to comply with your new way of dining. I've been at this for quite a long time and I just automatically adjust recipes to fit with the lifestyle. I love to eat and I love to cook and in our house the meals are delicious and satisfying. The best part of low-carb is that you and your household will always feel well fed and never hungry or deprived. Good luck!

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