Some Thoughts On The Debt Limit

That whistle you hear on down the tracks heralds an impending train wreck, as Tea Partiers brace for a vote on raising the debt limit sometime in the next few months.

Let's get a sense of their attitude - some thoughts:

...raising America’s debt limit is a sign of leadership failure. It is a sign that the U.S. Government can’t pay its own bills. It is a sign that we now depend on ongoing financial assistance from foreign countries to finance our Government’s reckless fiscal policies.

Over the past 5 years, our federal debt has increased by $3.5 trillion to $8.6 trillion.That is “trillion” with a “T.” That is money that we have borrowed from the Social Security trust fund, borrowed from China and Japan, borrowed from American taxpayers...

...

And the cost of our debt is one of the fastest growing expenses in the Federal budget. This rising debt is a hidden domestic enemy, robbing our cities and States of critical investments in infrastructure like bridges, ports, and levees; robbing our families and our children of critical investments in education and health care reform; robbing our seniors of the retirement and health security they have counted on.

Every dollar we pay in interest is a dollar that is not going to investment in America’s priorities.

Put him down as "Undecided".  Ooops, my bad!  That was Barack Obama himself, speaking in 2006.  Put him down as "Present".  And now, as "President".  The shoe is on the other foot, sauce for the goose, and away we go.

Republicans will be having a lot of fun with that speech (as they did a year ago) but I hope they eventually suck it up and do the right thing.  Bruce Bartlett worries that they won't.

AN INTERESTING FINESSE:  This is tricky:

In the runup to the government shutdown, the Washington Post reported on a long menu of options available for dealing with hitting the debt limit, many of which did not involve shutdown. Most of those options remain on the table for any upcoming standoff.

The most financially promising of those options would be to "disinvest" government trust funds that hold Treasury debt, most principally the Social Security Trust Fund. Essentially, the trust funds would redeem bonds they hold ahead of schedule, in exchange for a promise to be paid back later -- and such an IOU would not count against the debt limit. Because the trust fund balances exceed $2.5 trillion, this tactic could be used to run the government for several years without hitting the debt limit.

This tactic works because the debt limit applies to gross debt, including trust fund holdings, which are debts the federal government owes to itself. The government's true indebtedness is better reflected by net debt, also called Debt Held by the Public. By reducing the amount of debt that the government owes to itself, the federal government can grow the net debt while staying within the gross debt cap.

The Reagan Administration used this tactic during a budget standoff in 1985; while the AARP sued to block the raid on the Social Security Trust Fund, their suit was dismissed. However, Reagan used the proceeds of the raid to pay current Social Security benefits, and it may not be legal to raid the funds to pay for general operations of government. A raid would also be politically fraught; while the Social Security Trust Fund is an accounting fiction, most Social Security beneficiaries don't see it that way.

In effect, the current Social Security trust fund notes are already part of the Gross Debt limit.  If they could be sold to the public, Net Debt would rise while Gross Debt stayed constant.  That would be the funding source, *IF* it's legal.

 

Comments

[memomachine]

Hmmmm.

Screw the debt limit. Leave it as it is and let the hammer fall.

[ds]

What's with the link to Bartlett's crazy rant? The whole post consists of: "if we don't increase the limit, we will default on our bonds, because I say so. And you're all f*ing retarded." That's it, with almost no translation.

Whereas the tea partiers are arguing, "if we don't increase the limit, we'll be forced to pay for critical things like debt service with tax revenues, and slash spending elsewhere, TO AVOID A DEFAULT." You and Bartlett seem to be saying that it's your estimation that instead, our leaders would default. That doesn't seem like such a self-evident conclusion.

[ds]

...posted the above comment before I saw your "finesse." Well exactly, which is why Bartlett's post that you linked is so ridiculous. It's not like the only option is to immediately default on our bonds, for God's sake! We can get creative with IOUs. We can stop tax refunds. We can sell some stuff really quick. We can play around with Social Security. We can administratively close a bunch of loopholes and increase revenues. All we need to do to avoid a default is to come up with enough cash for debt service. You don't think that this government, in collaboration with the Fed, would pull that off? Here's another scenario: the Fed BUYS those Social Security IOUs with cash that's then used to pay our dollar-denominated debt service. Why not? It's not a LOT more crazy than buying private bonds. It's wildly inflationary, but they WANT to inflate the dollar. And it's a hell of a long way from a "default".

[Ignatz]

Bruce Bartlett I'm afraid has become useless. If he were to write dispassionately it wouldn't be so bad but every column now is laced the occasional small swipe at liberals but chock full of gratuitous bashing of libertarians and conservatives and constant blubbering about how any conservative who disagrees with him isn't a true conservative.
He's become the Kevin Phillips of economics.

[Pofarmer]

"We can stop tax refunds."

Ain't. Enough. Popcorn.

[Pofarmer]

So, why is a govt shutdown bad again?

[matt]

what is stunning is that still, no one has recommended any kind of cutbacks, whether in number of employees, programs, purchases of new plant & equipment or of any other sort.

This alone speaks volumes.

[narciso]

It's sad when even the Russians and even the Cuban government has more of a clue, than our
own leaders, in the LUN

[Danube of Thought]

Start by reducing the federal workforce by 10% and federal pay by 5%.

[Neo]

Bartlett does a great job of breathing life back into Al Gore's "lockbox." Unfortunately, just as before the real notion of a "lockbox" will be ignored, in return for the latest political "slight of hand."

[Al Asad]

It sounds like a lamentation when conservatives talk about the efficacy of the SS fund.

As usual, the hypocrisy of those whose goal it is to dismantle and eradicate SS trumps their ideology.

Reagan started the raids, but found himself
preoccupied with illegal foreign policy.

Bush, the Clueless, found himself with the keys to the kingdom and started the second phase with unfunded tax cuts and an unfunded war of choice.

Let's not have any false protestations from Republicans about the importance of maintaining the safety net for middle and low income types.

Public pronouncements about the 'ponzi' scheme of the century and the need to dismantle SS would auger what credibility you have left.

[Jane (sit on the couch or save your country)]

Start by reducing the federal workforce by 10% and federal pay by 5%.

I'd go higher than that.

And make Obama pay for his own damn vacations, retroactively.

[Jeff]

until our spending is equal to our revenues we will have to increase the debt ceiling ... or reduce spending with draconian cuts since revenue choices are fixed with the tax Bill deal ...
the idea that we can just go cold turkey is just silly ... won't happen and doesn't need to ...

[Al Asad]

BTW;

I wait with great anticipation as Republicans try to herd the Newby cats into lockstep formation
on what to do about the debt ceiling.

Congress will look like scene from "Lawrence of Arabia" when TE Lawrence handed the keys to an
official Arab state over to the rabble who kicked the Turks out, only to find them unable to provide basic services to the population of Damascus.

Sad, but humorous

[jt]

Sell California on eBay...

[Jane (sit on the couch or save your country)]

Sell California on eBay...

Best idea of the day! Can we make sure Ahhhnold goes with it?

[narciso]

Even the Sultan of Brunei, wouldn't go for that.

[Al Asad]

Does anyone remember the 80's when SS raid forced payroll taxes to double?

That's the plan. Reduce taxes, then force unfunded budgets, requiring Joe Lunchbucket to shoulder more of the burden of running the country, releasing the Hedge Funders and Trust Fund Babies from the burden of taxes.

[Old Lurker]

Set total Fed Spending at 20% of a three year moving average of GDP. Cut federal workforce by 10% and fed pay 10% first then take the rest out of transfers and entitlements. Change BK Code to allow States and Locals to go bankrupt.

Borrow extra popcorn from Po.

[NK]

jt-- alas, given California's unfunded pension liabilities, an ebay action would yield nada.

AA/Jeff are waaaay too glib about extending the debt ceiling. this is the one chance the people have to rein in the power and spending mad washington pols. The repubs need to be "statesmen" and avoid a default of obligatiions, and make no mistake, if the debt limit is not extended, the US will default on obligations, whether it be on debt interest payments, SS payments, or military pensions. What to do? extend on fiscally sane conditions, i.e. no State pension bailouts, a one year debt extension on a max amount-- i.e. $800 billion etc. based on spending cuts, no tax rate increases. The voters will support the repubs for being sane, and statesmen. what are the dems gonna do, demand we keep spending and borrowing? yeah, voters will love them for that. this is a BIG deal.

[NK]

PS-- OL's suggestions are very good conditions for an extension. The washington pols are junkies on the debt and spending drug-- time to make them go on a 12 step program.

[Jane (sit on the couch or save your country)]

Ahhhhh I just updated my narcisolater. Perfecto!

[Al Asad]

A handful of Republican Congressmen — including Sen.-elect Mike Lee (R-UT) and Rep. Michele Bachmann (R-MN) — have announced that they will oppose increasing the nation’s debt ceiling the next time it comes up for a vote, essentially saying that they are okay with a government shutdown or the myriad consequences of the U.S. defaulting on its debt obligations. RNC Chairman Michael Steele even drew a hard line in the sand, saying “we’re not going to compromise on raising the debt ceiling.”

Other Republicans, however, are planning to use the debt ceiling vote and imminent economic chaos as an opportunity to wring concessions from Senate Democrats and President Obama. On Meet the Press yesterday, Sen. Lindsey Graham (R-SC) said that he would not vote to increase the debt limit unless a plan is adopted to cut Social Security benefits via raising the retirement age:

GRAHAM: This is an opportunity to make sure the government is changing its spending ways. I will not vote for the debt ceiling increase until I see a plan in place that will deal with our long-term debt obligations starting with Social Security, a real bipartisan effort to make sure that Social Security stays solvent, adjusting the age, looking at means-tests for benefits. [...]

Means testing- Yeah, the filthy rich are really dependent on that extra-income.

Watch and learn-

[Danube of Thought]

Following the Napoleonic Wars, David Ricardo pointed that there can be no such thing as a "lockbox" into which funds would be placed for deficit reduction. All that matters is revenues vs. Expenditures; when the latter exceed the former, there remains a deficit no matter how the revenues are labeled.

[Just as curious as GWB]

Ahhhhh I just updated my narcisolater.

How's the view from inside yer arse?

That ostrich meat keep ya warm?

[bgates]

the trust funds would redeem bonds they hold ahead of schedule, in exchange for a promise to be paid back later -- and such an IOU would not count against the debt limit

Why is that just debt, and not debt-debt?

or reduce spending with draconian cuts

I think we have a bipartisan consensus.

[MarkO]

This all sounds like movie revenue and profit accounting. I believe we should avoid defaults even if they occur for the purpose of grandstanding the side I'm on. Better would be to dismantle the Department of Education or the FCC or some other outdated and impractical silliness. Start with Obamacare and work forward until we have only what is reasonably necessary, not what is humanly possible.

[clarice]

I've been cooking for two days for a dinner party tonight so I haven't had time to ponder big questions like this. Whatever you guys decide...I give you my proxy.I do especially like OL's ideas though.

Smooches

[matt]

under the radar nationally may be the story of Arnold commuting the sentence of former California State Assembly Speaker Fabian Nunez'(D - Hell)son on murder charges.

The little bastard knifed some kid in a fight in San Diego and got sentenced to 16 years. Now reduced to 6 years.

[Danube of Thought]

Ditto, Jane--ain't it grand?

[Danube of Thought]

The infallible Wikipedia says the Dept. of Education's budget for 2009 was $32 billion; the estimate for 2010 is $56 billion.

Wouldn't it be a fine idea simply to defund that useless Jimmy Carter creation by 100%?

[sammy small]

Graham's effort to tweek Social Security's age related benefits will provide a step in the right direction for SS and should be achievable. Of course, the solution will only be a burden on the general population, and not affect the size of the government bureaucracy itself. The larger question is what to do to shrink down the public sector and their unionized base. This will be a huge mountain to climb, and will be fought tooth and nail by the government unions and their Dem proponents.

I recall the six sigma drive of the past decade, and how employees were supposed to find ways for operations to become more efficient. It was hard to accomplish because people naturally don't want to six sigma their job out of existence. There is even less motivation to do this in the government, and many reasons why they want to do just the opposite.

[Janet]

THey can't even defund NPR....

[Dave (in MA)]

Deval Patrick (Axelrod's Ear Leader prototype) has announced he's cutting the pay of the MA legislature by half a percent. Wow. This will chip away at the $1B+ deficit by dozens of thousands of dollars.

[narciso]

This might be a little awkward, in light of previous comments made, in the LUN

[Jane (sit on the couch or save your country)]

Ditto, Jane--ain't it grand?

Indeed altho I have to install it on my other computer too - altho that just reminds me HOW GOOD IT IS. (I didn't mean the caps, but why not?)

Is patrick cutting his own pay too?

[rse]

Absolutely DOT.

It is not an exaggeration to say that the DOE's current funding priorities coupled with the charitable foundations' willingness to fund every idea that might get a politician in trouble but will further the collective international perspective are together trying to destroy this great country.

Here's how radical the vision for education really is-the planners think they can so empower and radicalize these kids that they will in turn change the nature of the workplace in the future to some form of participatory democracy.

Did you know that in the late 60s the feds funded BSTEP?-the Behavioral Science Teacher Education Project

Then they funded its implementation throughout the 70s and 80s to move teachers and schools of ed away from content knowledge and push them to adopt desired behaviors in the classroom.

We got it from the Soviets when the USSR was still bottled up tight. Not to everyone apparently.

[jimmyk]

Rather than say they are opposed to raising the limit, the Reps need to take advantage of the situation to say they support raising the debt ceiling provided that is tied to specific cuts such as were suggested above. If they just say the won't raise the debt ceiling they'll be on the defensive, but if they offer a specific deal it will put the Dems on the defensive, and in the awkward position of defending the spending.

[glasater]

If we go into default -- would China get Boeing or ipo Facebook as a down payment on our debt to them...

[Locavoracious.]

I'll gladly pay you Tuesday for a hamburger today.
================

[Dave (in MA)]

Kim, what kind of a wimpy comment is that?

[Mammoth Caverns]

This is a moot issue. The Republicans will cave. They will raise the debt limit. There will be no cuts.

[NK]

MammothC-- I think you're being too glib on writing off the repubs getting real conditions for debt limit extension. why? the swing voters want conditions and oppose endless debt. the senate dems up for re-election in 2012 will agree, and that moron reid will be in a tough spot. hell based on his december flip-flops barry o will probably agree.

[bolitha]

I've been away from reading this blog for a while. LOTS of new voices!!

[Danube of Thought]

I think the best that can realistically be hoped for is to get some very meaningful concessions in return for raising the ceiling.

[Just as curious as GWB]

"some very meaningful concessions in return for raising the ceiling."

That spongecake have any eggs or sugar with all that air?

[Pork Pie is a Southern Dish]

2011 should prove that we live in interesting times.

WikiLeaks' Assange says he'll release bank information in Jan.
By Sarah Halzack

In an interview with CNBC on Friday, Julian Assange said his organization plans to release information about banks some time in January.

The WikiLeaks founder did not say which firms would face leaks or what type of data or information that would entail. But in recent weeks, speculation has swirled that Bank of America is the prime target. Those assumptions are largely based on an October 2009 interview that Assange gave to Computer World, in which he said, "At the moment, for example, we are sitting on 5GB from Bank of America, one of the executive's hard drives," he said. "Now how do we present that? It's a difficult problem."

Assange also said Friday that his organization "has been attacked" by banks in the United States, United Kingdom, Dubai and Switzerland. It was unclear what type of alleged attacks he was referring to.

Keep an eye on how Bank of America's stock performs today. The last time Assange spoke of his plans to release information about a financial institution, Bank of America's stock dropped more than three percent.

[why do tea-baggers hate the elderly?]

The "donut hole" in Medicare's prescription-drug plan, for example, has created considerable burdens on millions of middle-income seniors. Their drug costs are covered initially, but once they reach a modest limit, these seniors who rely on their medications are stuck with big out-of-pocket costs until catastrophic coverage can kick in. As of Saturday, these Americans who've been stuck in the "doughnut hole" are eligible receive a 50% discount on the price of brand-name prescription drugs.

Today, the Senate Democratic leadership wrote Speaker-designate John Boehner (R-Ohio) about this. The letter was pretty clever -- Dems noted that Boehner's caucus intends to try to repeal the entire Affordable Care Act, but urged Republicans to consider what this would do to those seniors who'd feel the brunt of the GOP's push.

The incoming House Republican majority has promised to enact a "clean repeal" of the federal health care law in the opening days of the new Congress. In a letter to Boehner, Senate Democratic leaders warned that undoing the law would jeopardize a number of popular consumer protections, including some that are just now taking effect.

"We urge you to consider the unintended consequences that the law's repeal would have on a number of popular consumer protections that help middle class Americans," the senators wrote. "The 'donut hole' fix is just one measure that would be threatened by a repeal effort. Taking this benefit away from seniors would be irresponsible and reckless at a time when it is becoming harder and harder for seniors to afford a healthy retirement."

The senators added: "If House Republicans move forward with a repeal of the health care law that threatens consumer benefits like the 'donut hole' fix, we will block it in the Senate. This proposal deserves a chance to work. It is too important to be treated as collateral damage in a partisan mission to repeal health care."

[Bush. Reagan and Nixon]

The Obama administration is the most corrupt..........

EVAH !!!!!!

[clarice]

DOT: " Wouldn't it be a fine idea simply to defund that useless Jimmy Carter creation by 100%?"

Yes, it would be a great idea.

Ditto the Dept of Energy.

Ditto NPR.

Look how good we are at reaching our goal of slashing the budget!!! And it didn't even hurt a soul except those who workk there or live off their wasteful grants.

[Why do you hate the Middle Class?]

61 per cent of Americans say we should raise taxes on the wealthy to reduce the deficit.

Raising taxes on the rich beats out cuts to defense spending, Medicare or Social Security as U.S. adults' top preference on how to close the deficit, according to a 60 Minutes/Vanity Fair poll.

Sixty-one percent of Americans said that increasing taxes to the wealthy should be the first step toward balancing the budget.

I guess if you can ignore that poll, you should be able to pretend it doesn't matter if the same number say they don't like Healthcare reform.

[Dave (in MA)]

why do tea-baggers hate the elderly?
The holidays have ended and the Axelturfers are obeying their ctrl-C/ctrl-V directives from Soros HQ.

[Sue]

Drudge is flashing the siren...William Daley being considered for top WH post. Sean Hannity claims it is the Chief of Staff position.

[jimmyk]

I'm guessing you could get around 61% who'd like to see Obama forcibly removed from office and sent back to Chicago, but for better or for worse we have a constitution that prescribes the process for things like that, as well as for decisions about taxing. The founding fathers understood something about the tyranny of the majority.

[clarice]

To stsart the New Year we have the Axelturfers back on the job and a mystery murder.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/01/03/bush-aide-dead-landfill/

[matt]

Daley pressers would be hilarious.....If he was subject to national scrutiny, I don't think he would last too terribly long.....

[sammy small]

I still think that there should be a line on every 1040 where those who feel they are under taxed could donate till their heart's content.

[Appalled]

The GOP is not about to do anything to prompt a government shutdown or endanger the Moodys' rating (the result of which would, threough interest rate cgharges, utterly gut any saving the GOP could negotiate.). The tough talk about the debt limit is being indulged in by people for whom talk is very cheap.

The House controls the budget writing process. If the GOP wants to constrain spending, it's time to do it the old fashioned way.

[larry]

Kim & Dave(in Ma). Say good night Gracie. I'll Supply the top hats & canes if you two decide to take that show on the road.

[Why do you hate the Middle Class?]

Tea=Partiers say "give me my country back"

61 percent of Americans say;

"Give us our wealth back"

seems fair, doncha think?

[Ignatz]

--why do tea-baggers hate the elderly--

Cause they're tough and stringy, even though easy to catch.
We prefer the young and poor; they're tender and succulent, even if a bit gamey at times and they usually provide excellent sport.

[glasater]

Would Daley survive an FBI background check?

[Dave (in MA)]

Sammy, the state return in MA, that bluest of blue states, has a box that allows one to reaffirm their blueness annually by opting into a higher rate. Out of a population over 6.5 million, fewer than 2000 checked it in the Year of Hope and Change.

[Appalled]

Middle Class:

Who took the wealth in the first place?

[larry]

Convince me that we need to raise the debt ceiling. Then explain how we figure how much; I mean in light of the fact that the last congress didn't do the top priority thing it's supposed to do, pass a budget.

[sammy small]

Dave(in MA),

I think Obama should expend all efforts to get his followers to voluntarily help his programs succeed by donating extra $$ on their federal 1040s. THAT would once and for all show how much backing his policies really have.

[DrJ]

or live off their wasteful grants.

I'm more sanguine about the grants from DoEnergy (as opposed to Education). I know some people who hold individual or center grants from DOE, and their work is well worth funding.

[narciso]

A 60 minutes, poll, talk about those macaque monkeys, working on Hamlet,

[glasater]

Here's what could happen with the debt limit

Elections. Have. Consequences.

And here’s one coming up, now: the incoming House majority will be establishing a rule that will give the House Budget chair the ability to set the spending ceiling for any 2011 budget. This rule is currently causing House Democrats to freak out like koalas deprived of their eucalyptus leaves/junkies deprived of their heroin/hipsters deprived of their iPhones, for two reasons:

The Democrats never passed a budget in 2010, so this is going to affect spending for this fiscal year. A lot.
Who is going to be the House Budget chair? Why, Rep. Paul “Embrace the sweet pain that comes from cutting entitlements” Ryan.
And when I say “freak out,” I mean freak out: the Democrats are so upset about this that they’ve lost all control of their higher brain functions and have reverted to babbling about Social Security privatization. And unilateralism! We haven’t heard that one in a while.

At the article link there is another link to The Hill article that goes into more depth.

[narciso]

how did that report of the Egyptian nuclear program, go, or can you say, Dr. J.

[Why do you hate the Middle Class?]

"Who took the wealth in the first place?"

That was John Dillinger's position.

I say stolen wealth should return to those that produced it.

[clarice]

Dr J, don't you think a small commission could do that? Do we need are the furbelows around the vest?

[glasater]

Liked this tweet:

DrewMTips
The House GOP should attach their ObamaCare repeal bill to the debt ceiling increase. #letthefunbegin

[Appalled]

And I am asking -- who stole it? Wealth is not just created by laborers toiling in fields...

And, since you rasie the topic, we know that government takes wealth through taxes. Are you calling that theft?

[Porchlight]

To stsart the New Year we have the Axelturfers back on the job and a mystery murder.

That is a sad story, clarice. The victim was one of the fundraisers for the Vietnam Memorial.

[Why do you hate the Middle Class?]

Re-distribution of wealth could be interpreted as theft, if you feel Robin Hood was a thief.

[glasater]

Milton Friedman on Responsibility to the Poor

[Why do you hate the Middle Class?]

Milton says the 'free market" is the solution to poverty.

China is a free market paradise.

We should adopt their policies of slave labor
(they too, can be entrepreneurs !) and NO, I say, I say, NO regulation.

Their economy is a growth MONSTER.

There's yer vision........

[DrJ]

narcisso,

What I had was a paper that was submitted to a journal to be published. I reviewed it and recommended that it not be published in its current form. There's hope that it can be improved enough to merit publication, but I doubt it will happen.

[narciso]

I'm struck bt how reductionist thar description of Wheeler has become, wasn't he
the main promoter of the the Vietnam Memorial

[DrJ]

Dr J, don't you think a small commission could do that? Do we need are the furbelows around the vest?

The grants part of the shop can be run with not much staff, as NIH and NSF both do so. What the rest of the agency does is not really clear to me.

A friend of mine just moved there (not in the grants area), and I intend to poke at him a bit once he has settled in. He's seen a lot over the years, and will give me a pretty straight story.

[jimmyk]

Dr J, don't you think a small commission could do that?

I think the bigger issue is that there is always likely to be something worthwhile buried in any large endeavor. It would be nice if it were possible to take a scalpel and save the good things and eliminate the bad, but realistically the choice is all or nothing (think Obamacare). Once you start fighting for the DoE, someone else will fight for Education, and so on. One benefit of smaller government will be that there will be more private money available for some of those worthwhile things.

[Belloftheball]

Debt and loan firgiveness is fnanced out five years voted on just before presidential elections that is why its O and he chose Biden.The new Congressmen have to say no to the whole thing or theyVre buying into House that was stealing us blind like O and his oil.

[Extraneus]

Democrats Hunting for Vulnerable Republicans to Shoot Down in 2012

[Rob Crawford]

'Cleo, go play in the street.

Or seek therapy.

[Danube of Thought]

I was really struck by the OECD data showing that the income tax burden in the US is more progressively distributed than in any other country in the industrialized world.

Do you suppose that the parasite parties in Japan, Sweden, Luxembourg and Italy are constantly whining for their "rich" to be taxed at ever-higher rates?

[Ignatz]

--China is a free market paradise.--

And quickly out of the gate, cleo breaks out to an early but formidable lead in the stupidest comment of the year stakes.

Going for the trifecta, my money's on cleo by a nose over cleo, followed closely by cleo, with bubu a distant fourth and out of the money.

[DrJ]

I think the bigger issue is that there is always likely to be something worthwhile buried in any large endeavor.

Sure, but the funding of research effectively has been nationalized. Whether this is a good idea or not is another topic. But with nearly all fundamental and applied research being funded by the government, it is important to make sure these keep going.

Program costs could be reduced by other means, and getting rid of support for programs that choose market solutions and throw a lot of cash at them.

[Danube of Thought]

I saw Judge Andrew Napolitano forecast a 5-4 SCt vote to invalidate Obamacare, with Kennedy the decider. All very encouraging, except that the judge is mad as a March hare.

[Rick Ballard]

"The infallible Wikipedia says the Dept. of Education's budget for 2009 was $32 billion; the estimate for 2010 is $56 billion."

Wiki speak with forked corkscrew, DoT. The CBO (page 113) puts forecast outlays at $194 billion for 2009 (including a $110 billion bump from ARRA) while the Daily Treasury Report (page 3) shows cash outlays for the FY ending 9/30/10 at $252 billion. (The applicable numbers for 09, 08 and 07 were $188 billion, $100 billion and $90 billion).

The CBO link provides a wealth of ideas concerning where to apply a cleaver.

[Jidge Judy]

"except that the judge is mad as a March hare."

Napolitano or Kennedy?

[Danube of Thought]

Thanks for that, RickB--I used "infallible" because they are so famously inaccurate. Not surpassing they erred on the low side.

[Extraneus]

Left ready to launch own version of Operation Chaos for Palin?

Heh. Too bad the Republicans didn't address the open primary issue.

Bring it on, libs.

[Jidge Judy]

Bring it on, libs.

Thanks for the link. Helluvan idea.

Go Sara !

[narciso]

Except they would most likely vote for Huck, he agrees with them, at least 50% of the time. He cheered the Nobel prize, was wishy
wash on Obamacare, till months later, sometimes overcompensates like in the case
of Assange

[Rick Ballard]

DoT,

Perhaps Wiki was using the total discretionary authority as their basis. That only leaves out three quarters of the actual outlays.

[PD]

Same poster posts these:

1) 61 per cent of Americans say we should raise taxes on the wealthy to reduce the deficit.

2) 61 percent of Americans say;

"Give us our wealth back"

So, wanting someone else's taxes to be raised is equivalent to getting your wealth back?

Sound more like "I want the government to reach into someone else's pocket and give me their money."

[PD]

I say stolen wealth should return to those that produced it.

Ah, so you really want the government to *reduce* taxes on the wealthy.

[srp]

Before the Dept. of Energy, we had ERDA, the Energy Research & Development Administration. DoD and AEC/NRC had control over nuclear weapons production. Then there was FERC, which used to be in charge of price controls and rationing on oil and gas. I don't remember where the equivalent of the Energy Information Agency was located. Carter's genius administration decided to put all these disparate activities into the same excess-overhead-generating Cabinet-level box, along with various other new money-wasters like conservation subsidies. Obama then added the task of administering billions of "stimulus" subsidies for "green job" boondoggles.

Kill the boondoggles, break out a streamlined ERDA (put in Commerce somewhere), move the weapons stuff back to DoD and get rid of the Cabinet-level bureaucracy. Saves a few bucks and might actually improve quality and productivity.

[PD]

Anyone watching the Orange Bowl? What are those blobs on the Stanford helmets?