Sunday Morning Open Thread

Away we go.

Comments

[peter]

State of the Union to focus on jobs. yawn. LUN

[clarice]

daddy linked this on the Sat thread, but now we're here so:

http://www.americanthinker.com/2011/01/allegory_of_the_cave_of_the_ma_1.html>narcisogivesmeanidea about Sarah

[clarice]

Hill Buzz posts a letter with a B.C. theory--the birth certificate says Barry Soetero because it was changed by law when he was adopted and he never formally changed it back.
http://hillbuzz.org/2011/01/23/hawaii-ground-report-could-hawaiian-governor-neil-abercrombie-not-be-as-incompetent-and-foolish-as-he-appears-but-orchestrating-a-deliberate-birth-certificate-recovery-dead-end-to-cover-his-own-pap/>Birth

[anduril]

Walter Russell Mead attempts to talk about Race in Black and Blue. Put your thinking caps on and read it, because it's a topic that's important for the future of this country. But don't stop at the end--continue through the comments. There are a number that are quite incisive.

[sbw]

State of the Union to focus on jobs.

Gosh! Seems like just two years ago he said, "We will rebuild, we will recover, and the United States of America will emerge stronger than before."

If you're gullible and believe that history begins at dawn, clap your hands!

[sbw]

To Clarice and your JOM kitchen cabinet: Your Clarice's Pieces pulls back the curtain brilliantly. It deserves an Instalanche.

[Captain Hate]

LUN for just when you think you can't think any less of Bathtub Boy.....

[centralcal]

Good morning. Just finished reading Clarice's Pieces before coming over here to catch up.

Oh, I know, we always tell Clarice what a fine job she did each Sunday - but, dammit - I truly appreciate what she wrote this Sunday. Absolutely one of the best Pieces she's written to date!

[Captain Hate]

Does Preznit Bamboozler really think that he can separate talking about jobs from the deficit and DeathCare discussions? If he can turn that into a plus we're probably doomed as a country.

Btw, WTF is going on at FNS? Noted dumbass Dick Durbin was supposed to be on with Mitch McConnell but only McConnell is on and red-diaper Chris Wallace is posing questions for the witless one?

[narciso]

Great one, again Clarice, really that seems to be the best understanding of what happened
here, Taranto, delved into the psychological,
but there is a mechanism that is behind it all, and I my college philosophy class, gave me that insight, I agree with you Capt., FNS
is turning that 'whiter shade of blancmange'
lately, saying Obama is moving to the center,
it must be a doppler shift thing

[Melinda Romanoff]

Cap'n-

Thanks, that means someone spotted the turbanned sponge a ticket for this afternoon.

Ugh, extra security moved to the boxes again, the lines for the rest of us are going to be huge. Last week it took almost an hour to get through the lines.

[Captain Hate]

Nevermind, Durbin is on making a complete ass out of himself. No wonder he didn't want to go on with McConnell so the contrast would be apparent to anybody watching

[numk]

typepad is shit

[Neo]

Can hate be merchandised ? Of course ...

With two years left on his $7 million a year contract, Olbermann was seeking a full exit package but he really has his eye on creating his own media empire in the style of Huffington Post, according to the individual. That way, Olbermann would control his own brand and, in his view, potentially earn far more as an owner.

Hey, I’d be happy if he just stuck to an internet presence ... that I could block.

[narciso]

I was reading up on Durbin, he defeated Paul Findley, a Congressman with a certain focus, we've seen familiar. He was generally prolife,
till he did the Gephart twist.

[jag]

I had to comment about the story Clarice mentions where a Palin loather is asked what it is about Palin's policies or ideas they find "stupid".

I did exactly the same thing recently with a friend's daughter (a very bright junior at a very liberal college). Exactly the same result; she couldn't name a single policy and found it astonishing that one might even ASK such a question.

Liberals idolize "intellect".....preferably that which is "proven" by academic credentials from prestigious, private, universities. I suppose if you have invested much time, money and effort to get credentialed in such a manner it might be very hard to swallow a person without such acclaimed academic accomplishment finding success (much less a place) in "your" arena (political policy).

It might, in fact, be terrorizing to imagine more "average" people like Palin finding political success as it demonstrates a lack of respect (if not value) to everything you've worshiped in your life and/or career.

Don't most academics loathe capitalism because it has the audacity to magnificently reward "idiots" who do stuff like invent new tools and products in some grubby garage?

Its horrible when you think about it; life does not reward "intellect" more than anything else.

[narciso]

One of these times, they will get into a jam, and none of the sympathizing they do with jihadist sentiments, will be worth a darn, in the LUN

[clarice]

Thank you all. sbw if you have a wish to do so, I give you permission to reprint it.

[Janet]

A story at Drudge - Obama celebrates Roe v. Wade; 'gov't should not intrude on private family matters'...

...but we're gonna tell you what kind on light bulb you can use. Our hands won't be on your uterus because they will be busy with your mind, the rest of your body, your home, your work place,....

[Minimalist Poster]

I don't think it's that Palin lacks credentials as much as it is that she's not on The Approved List established by The Respected Credentialed Ones and has opinions & beliefs which are not on The Approved List. If one adopts The Approved List, they are obviously intelligent, educated, and a clear & deep thinker, as well as open minded & free of all prejudice. One who deviates from The Approved List is obviously stupid, no matter what credentials they might hold.

[Ignatz]

--Our hands won't be on your uterus...--

Not their hands maybe, but their instruments will be perforating them and should the helpless baby survive, well, Barry's perfectly OK with killing it, although he prefers the slower, more painful method of letting it die of exposure and neglect rather than the old scissors trick.
And they accuse us of being Nazis.

[PaulV]

Boston Globe article on "death panel" and why term is useful. Is Shakespalin owed royalities? LUN

[boris]

There may be a component of Palin hostility from a facet of human nature for which there is no direct explanation. A non political example:

When George Garcia received his cochlear implant (see main story), he was immediately ostracized by his deaf friends, who seemed to regard his decision to have the implant surgery as a kind of personal repudiation. Their reaction was not unique. There is strong opposition to cochlear implants in the deaf community, a fact that many people in the hearing world find surprising.

Not claiming this is THE facet, since there have been many other elected female GOP, but there seems to be some similarity in the personal affront aspect with no apparent insult or injury.

[clarice]

Yes, boris--it's another example of displaced aggression by people who cannot admit their envy and it seems strongest in those who have handicapped themselves by their action or inaction.

[Ignatz]

--There is strong opposition to cochlear implants in the deaf community...

Perhaps humans evolved from crabs in buckets?

[clarice]

jag--few people are really independent,critical thinkers/ Most ride with the closest herd. But there is a very large component of liberals who have fashioned their views around cultural icons--say the NYT and its pundits--without examining those views closely or the factual basis for them.

To see people of their same class and background depart from those views (IMO) shakes them to the core and often leads to otherwise inexplicable outbursts of fury. You have deprived them of all the bases of their political being and stripped away their authority simply by having a different point of view.

[boris]

"cannot admit their envy"

There seems to be a "sense of betrayal" involved too.

[Rick Ballard]

Janet,

I can't come up with any reason why the Philly Black Baby Butcher should be an anomaly. Given Obama's spirited defense of butchers in Illinois, I believe there to be a better than even chance that a bit of investigation would turn up a South Side Butcher and, given Michelle's propensity to shove poor blacks into the street, a better than even chance that the licensed butcher(s) will have ties to the Obamas.

We can count on the MFM to tamp this story down but it ain't gonna work and a call for closer inspection and supervision is certainly warranted. It's time to turn over a few more rocks.

[Jane says obamasucks]

Well from now on when I hear Palin hatred I will respond with: "ahhhh stuck in Plato's cave.

Simply great Clarice.

David Gregory is an ass. Eric Canter came off as a grown-up and Gregory came off as a bully. I only wish Canter had made a Chris Christie observation: "despite the bias in your question"... When it comes to Gregory, that should be said repeatedly.

[Sandy Daze]

23 Jan 11
conus

@ : narciso | January 23, 2011 at 10:03 AM

The NYT - YGBSM. They owe the release and carefully managed repatriation of David Rohde to Dewey and his team. Followed the developments very closely during the entire evolution. Dedicated Americans responding to a situation to help another American.

That the CIA is not getting the job done is, interalia, a direct reflection of the 'force protection' measures that have infected the Agency (and DoS). Witness the witlessness which resulted in the suicide attack at an Agency outpost on FOB Chapman in Khost in Dec 09, resulting in seven dead agents.

Dewey is/IS a great American.

But, like the Saracuda, he is out there "doing" while they sit on the sidelines and jeer.

Makes me so angry I want to spit.

Take good care,
Sandy

[boris]

Plato's cave explains why I think the follwoing (from a comment yesterday) is a good thing:

Oh they think they're driving down her poll numbers but what's really happening is the muddle is forced to watch something they don't like.

When the flawflaggers say "unelectable because the independent poll numbers are too low" I can use the Plato's cave response as well.

[narciso]

I know, if there was real reward in the world, he would have made it to the 7th floor
at Langley, helping break the Brigatte Rossi,
providing the life line to the Contras, setting up the CTC, which started to go after Abu Nidal, If they had listened to him, Aldrich Ames, would have gone nowhere, he saw
the flaws in the latter's field work.

[Pops]

SEnator Durbin made the hugest gaffe/mistake on National TV this AM and of course idiot boy didn't even notice.

Durbin said that we ought to talk to the staffers on the debt commission because they will tell you the biggest thing driving the deficits and debt is government run healthcare.

BINGO!

So why add more and more poeple to government run healthcare, Senator Durbin? You just admitted government take over of healthcare will explode the deficits, idiot.

[Rick Ballard]

Boris,

You could use Souffle's decision to cut down BOzo's incessant stage hogging and the subsequent decrease in disapproval numbers as an example of effective poll manipulation. The decision to make February a "Palin free" month by the MFM indicates a realization that she's moving the Muddle. There may well be polling results that are not being released which show her moving the Muddle in a direction which the MFM finds unhelpful.

[clarice]

I think so, too, Rick. I think they are getting inklings that the muddle believes the treatment of her is unfair and the mudslingers, not she, are being blamed for the "climate of oh you know what"

[Janet]

from Clarice's Pieces today - "...she takes media prisoners out of their mental cave and into the bright sun and exposes the puppeteers as fools and knaves."

this entire thought reminds me of these lines in the Bible...
"This is the judgment, that the Light has come into the world, and men loved the darkness rather than the Light, for their deeds were evil. For everyone who does evil hates the Light, and does not come to the Light for fear that his deeds will be exposed. But he who practices the truth comes to the Light, so that his deeds may be manifested as having been wrought in God." John 3:19-21

[Janet]

I think they are getting inklings that the muddle believes the treatment of her is unfair

That is what is going on with my husband. The more the media turns up the Palin hatred, the more my husband sees their bias. They are only hurting themselves.
They were already losing him with their Bush hatred.

[Ranger]

A note here from Illinois. Instapundit linked to this post:

http://danieljmitchell.wordpress.com/2011/01/22/the-exodus-from-illinois-begins/>The Exodus from Illinois Begins
January 22, 2011 by Dan Mitchell

The post is mostly a reposting of a local Champaign newspaper story, but what was really intersting to me (since I already knew the story) was this comment that was posted:

SteveBrooklineMA

This is simply a good argument for a federal takeover of state taxes. With a nationwide uniform tax system, corporations would be unable to play one state against the other. I suggest that the Feds increase income taxes to the point where they roughly equal current federal and state taxes combined. They could then funnel some of those funds back to the states, according to state population and adjusted so that states are effectively penalized for taxing on their own. This would effectively avoid any constitutional problems with the plan while ensuring state compliance.

It is time to tip the balance of power here, away from corporations, and towards people, where it truly belongs.

So, this is apparently how some on the left are imagining to bail out the failed blue states.

[clarice]

Well,good luck with that , you improvident progs.

First burn every copy of the constitution,,

(Thanks, Janet.)

[Threadkiller]

Hill Buzz posts a letter with a B.C. theory—“

TK posts a non-theory and instead posts a fact. Will Hill Buzz bite?

Obama said he was born subject to British law. Obama was born a dual citizen.

The B.C. is designed to keep you guessing.

My only theory is if he said he was born subject to Iranian law, everybody might listen to me.

[clarice]

TK, If he met the standard set by the Statute to define "Natural born citizen" he met the standard no matter that British law also made him a UK citizen. That's my opinion YMMV.

Responding to my Tatler post on Gosnell, a reader notes:

In the Report the one staff member states that 40% of all second trimester abortions were after 24 weeks and thus illegal and another states that the number was too much to count. On page 79 of the report the Grand Jury estimates from staff member testimony that Gosnell was performing 4 to 5 illegal abortions a week.

http://www.phila.gov/districtattorney/PDFs/GrandJuryWomensMedical.pdf

Also from the report we know that this clinic and Doctor were operating since 1979 and didn’t stop until Feb 2010, a period of roughly 30 years.

From this we do the math (assuming the Grand Jury’s numbers are representative:

5 illegal abortions a week x 52 weeks = 260 illegal abortions a year.

260 illegal abortions a year x 30 years = 7,800 murdered babies.

[Jim,MtnViewCA,USA]

Apologies if already posted: Hitler learns that Olbermann is gone.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JjHP2g4N3S8&feature=player_embedded#!

[Uncle BigBad]

Clarice,

Hillbuz has solved the birth certificate conundrum. I wonder why it took so long.

The thing about adoption that has always befuddled me is this: When an adoption is finalized, the child's birth certificate is ceremoniously brought out of the archives and . . . destroyed-- not changed or amended, but destroyed- expunged - put through the shredder.

It is replaced with a new certificate listing the adoptive parents as if they were biological parents.

[Danube of Thought]

7,800 murdered babies

And not a shot was fired.

[caro]

Kudos,Clarice.

From narciso's link above:

Duane R. Clarridge parted company with the Central Intelligence Agency more than two decades ago, but from poolside at his home near San Diego, he still runs a network of spies.

I wonder if he is a neighbor of DwM's or if he was at the ball last night.

[clarice]

Lucky for Gosnell he wasn't working in the Sudan, then Gere and others would be denouncing him.
About that SOTU seating stuff. A gal named Mitzi has a brilliant idea:

http://pajamasmedia.com/tatler/2011/01/23/seating-arrangements-at-the-sotu-address/>Seating

[Ignatz]

--TK, If he met the standard set by the Statute to define "Natural born citizen" he met the standard no matter that British law also made him a UK citizen.--

I don't believe there is a statute which defines natural born citizen, clarice.
That's most of the problem.

[MayBee]

Isn't there something in Dreams from my Father about Obama pondering a name change and staring at his birth certificate? I haven't read the book, but I seem to remember Sue, Porch,or darling Bad quoting it once.

[Neo]

The Obama administration has become so concerned about the slowing pace of new drugs coming out of the pharmaceutical industry that officials have decided to start a billion-dollar government drug development center to help create medicines.

Can you spell B-o-o-n-d-o-g-g-l-e ?

The new effort comes as many large drugmakers, unable to find enough new drugs, are paring back research. Promising discoveries in such illnesses as depression and Parkinson's that once would have led to clinical trials are instead going unexplored because companies have neither the will nor the resources to undertake the effort. Drug companies have typically spent twice as much on marketing as on research, a business model that is increasingly suspect.

This is what the "orphan drug law" was all about until it looked too profitable and Congress pared it back.

[Danube of Thought]

What is the Hawaii law that requires that a birth certificate be amended if a person changes his name?

[rse]

I was going to post this WaPo story on how even Rhodes scholar interviewees no longer seem to have broad knowledge or the instincts to reach for the broader contexts of what they do know.

LUN though is Jonah Goldberg's extensive quote that allows us to avoid clicking on WaPo.

A brief story from the trenches-last week the IB lit teacher assigns the Preface and Chapter 1 from a book called The Element. It encourages students to find and follow their passions and disparages academic learning especially in this ever changing world with an uncertain future.

Teachers pushing that view in class and gets mad at the students who are not buying into the idea that there is no use mastering content as things may change substantially in the future.

My daughter asked me to read and then invited some of her outrages friends over last night to talk about the passage.

Sometimes overreaching by teachers and schools creates good teachable moments.

Rick would have been so proud of my explanation of socialism and why academic learning is a problem to them.

My favorite question was being asked why someone who kept insisting on the need to be open-minded then insisted that everyone agree with and adopt her views.

[centralcal]

lol, Clarice! I love Mitzi's idea. Actually, the ship of fools couldn't look any more foolish than they already do, so why not play musical chairs.

I am thoroughly disgusted with our side and those participating in this preposterous kabuki theater.

[Danube of Thought]

Title 8 US Code, Section 1401 establishes criteria for citizenship at birth in various circumstances. Citizenship at birth is understood by many to be synonymous with being a natural-born citizen. I am one of those who understands it that way, but I am not going to get into this again.

[Jack is Back!]

Today we had a second collection at church for Protecting Human Life. How appropriate, that and the upcoming March for Life in Washington, at the time that the Gosnell eliminationism is revealed while The Won, the great proponent of what Gosnell was doing (as a Illinois State Senator), wants to "keep the government out of our private lives". Really? Then why, instead of focusing on the economy, he felt it was more important to force the most interventionist legislation since FDR?

So, in the SOTU, there is going to be a renewed emphasis on jobs. Right. From the laziest, most disinterested, apathetic head of state we have ever seen or heard, we are getting another TOFUS cacophony on jobs. And who watches this non-event anyway?

[rse]

neo-

Some of the government agency documents pushing for the federal government's control of STEM actually state that only government has the long term perspective to fund innovations.

To them the profit motive means no one will invest for the long term.

Of course with this group in charge . . .

[DrJ]

I saw that too, Neo. Not enough new pharmaceuticals from the private sector? No problem! The government will step in to help! Nothing is mentioned about removing existing hurdles to new pharma commercialization.

The worst of it is that funding will be drawn from the other institutes at NIH in what looks to be a pretty grim funding climate anyway. So money will be diverted from the fundamental work to support academics doing drug discovery.

Great.

[Danube of Thought]

It appears that if you change your name in the state of Hawaii you must submit documentation that will result in an amendment to your birth certificate. Not clear to me what happens if you are born in Hawaii but legally change your name while living in another jurisdiction.

[clarice]

Author doesn't say, DwM, but that is or was the case here ..was it true then in Hawaii?????

[Threadkiller]

DoT, I promise not to go to deep into this but I do have a question. If it is generally understood that an "anchor baby" is a citizen at birth, and it is generally understood that a citizen at birth is a "natural born citizen". Is an anchor baby eligible for POTUS?

[Uncle BigBad]

DoT

I know nothing of Hawaii law, or any law, for that matter; however there is a difference in going to court to change your name and adoption.

A simple name change probably doesn't change your birth certificate; however, adoption obliterates your birth certificate.

[clarice]

Best of all, De J--it will use US tax $$ to continue to subsidize the rest of the world's use of new drugs--and will the US be responsible for paying damages to those for whom the new drugs prove harmful as some always do unfortunately...?

[Chubby]

((...that and the upcoming March for Life in Washington, ))

Did you read Boehner's statement about that yesterday, posted by Rick? It was straightforward, powerful and unequivocal, unlike so much of the bland mush that emits from the mouths of politicians on controversial subjects.

[Chubby]

If his birth father was Islamic, and his putative adoptive father was Islamic, and he is now Christian, doesn't that make him apostate to Islam?

[Threadkiller]

”...it was never doubted that all children born in a country of parents who were its citizens became themselves, upon their birth, citizens also. These were natives, or natural-born citizens, as distinguished from aliens or foreigners. Some authorities go further and include as citizens children born within the jurisdiction without reference to the citizenship of their parents. As to this class there have been doubts, but never as to the first. For the purposes of this case it is not necessary to solve these doubts."

">http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase.pl?court=US&vol=88&invol=162"> Minor v. Happersett, 1874

This is the best that SCOTUS has to offer. They have doubts as to citizenship status of children without reference to the parents’ status. They have no doubts if the parents (plural) are citizens prior to the birth.

The way I look at it is this, there are two banks to put your gold into. One has a standard safe and all the protections you would expect from a bank. The other has the same safe and protections as the first but they keep their safe inside of a larger safe. The thief will have a harder time stealing your gold at bank number two.

Why use the bank that you have doubts over?

[DrJ]

will the US be responsible for paying damages to those for whom the new drugs prove harmful

I doubt it. The idea is that NIH will get lead compounds further along the development process (including some early animal studies and clinical trials) to become more attractive for the pharma companies to get a license.

So the private companies would shoulder the risk unless there was fraud or negligence on the due diligence package.

[boris]

"If it is generally understood that an "anchor baby" is a citizen at birth, and it is generally understood that a citizen at birth is a "natural born citizen". Is an anchor baby eligible for POTUS?"

Wouldn't a valid argument be ... by changing the qualification for citizen at birth they implicitly intended it for natural born also. So that ship has sailed.

Of course that changes the meaning and intent of a fundamental term in the constitution without amendment. (unless of course one claims natrual born can be "modernized" the same as freedom of the press has been).

[clarice]

rse,It is my experience that children develop critical thinking best when I pretend not to know all the answers --Honey, I need one cup of flour and I only have a 1/4 cup measure,can you help me figure out how to do this?(when they are young).
Honey, I worry if you aren't home when you say you will be that you are hurt or injured or worse. Can you help me figure out how we can work this out? (When they start driving)

And so on and so forth .None of us have the answers to everything.Nor will we be by our kids' sides forever.Our job is to help them do what those kids in your daughter's class are doing--use their own heads.

[Chubby]

I do think he formally adopted by Soetero. I saw some archival papers posted online re the divorce, and they made Soetero financially reponsible for the education of the children. Why would he be responsible for a child's education, unless he had adopted that child?

[boris]

"NIH will get lead compounds further along ..."

Wouldn't that cause lead poisoning?

Who wants lead compounds in their medicine. Not me no sir no way no how!

[Pops]

How soon the left forgets that it was their own, like Keith Olbermann that was out threatening Congresswomen like Gabby Giffords.

She was on all their lists as being a swing vote and an undecided on Healthcare.

Olbermann went on TV and directly threatened the Congresswomen and others:

Quote:“You were elected to serve the people, and if you fail to pass or support this legislation the full wrath of the progressive and the moderate movements in this country will come down on your heads.”
“We do not need to call the Democrats holding this up Blue Dogs that one word, dogs is perfectly sufficient, but let me speak to them collectively anyway. I warn you all. You were not elected to create a Democratic majority. You were elected to restore this country. You were not elected to serve the corporations and the trusts who the government has enabled for these last 8 years. You were elected to serve the people, and if you fail to pass or support this legislation the full wrath of the progressive and the moderate movements in this country will come down on your heads.”

He continued, “Explain yourselves not to me, but to them. They elected you, and in the blink of an eye they will replace you. If you will behave as if you are Republicans, as if you are the prostitutes of our system, you will be judged as such and you will lose not merely our respect you will lose your jobs. Every poll, every analysis, every vote, every region of this country supports healthcare reform, and the essential great leveling agent of government funded alternative to the unchecked duopoly of profiteering private insurance corporations. Cross us all at your peril.”

So, recapping, Olbermann said Gabby was a DOG, he void a WRATH upon her HEAD, he admitted she should take his words as a WARNING, that she crossed him at her PERIL.

So Gabby ended up receiving his WRATH being shot down like a DOG right in the HEAD, thus putting her in grave PERIL.

[clarice]

Here's more on Hawaiian law on the birth records of adoptees.

http://laws.adoption.com/statutes/hawaii-laws.html

[MayBee]

And so on and so forth .None of us have the answers to everything.Nor will we be by our kids' sides forever.Our job is to help them do what those kids in your daughter's class are doing--use their own heads.

I so agree, clarice!
I often say the best thing you can teach your children is how to make good choices. That's one reason I hate the current "zero tolerance" thinking. Kids need to learn judgement, and pre-consider possible consequences.

[Janet]

Here is Boehner's statement.

A bit - "Americans love life as much as we love freedom. These two founding principles are intertwined and form the basis of our national character. Without respect for life, freedom is in jeopardy."

Michele Bachmann was the speaker at the 2011 March for Life Rose dinner.

[clarice]

Exactly,MayBee.It's probably also why it isn't a bad idea to be less demanding that schools teach everything just the way we believe it should be. My son went to a school big on international orgs and multiculturalism, etc. Most of the foreign kids raced to get green cards as soon as they were eligible for them and didn't go work for the UN, etc--they went into business or the professions.They were not as dumb as their teachers on these things.

chubby, I also read reliable stuff that Obama was adopted by Soetero. I suppose he had his original certificate under the name Obama and used that when he got older without formally changing his name back to Obama.

[Threadkiller]

The ship is still in port, boris, but it is hard to see. They have never changed the qualification for citizenship to mean anchor babies are citizens. It has been applied incorrectly for so long the ship just sunk at the dock. The same is happening to natural born.

[Danube of Thought]

I think that an anchor baby is eligible to run for president.

[clarice]

I do, too, DwM--

[boris]

Clearly then a female Iranian anchor baby could come to the US with a billion dollars of Iranian oil money to campaign for president as a Jihad dimorat wearing a full burka and a C4 suicide belt at all campaign speeches.

One thing we can be absolutely sure of is that her treatment by the MSM will be better than Sarah Palin's.

[MayBee]

Me three.

Although I knew many Hong Kong children who had been born in the US to give them citizenship (and then moved immediately back to HK) in case the handover turned out horribly- and their parents were convinced their children would not be eligible to run for POTUS.

What I wonder about is, under the current system, what would stop a non-citizen child born elsewhere but brought here at an early age from running?

[Janet]

Maybee...nothing if they run as Democrats & hire Axelrod.

[Danube of Thought]

TK, keep in mind that the Happerstett Court was writing in 1874, just six years after enactment of the 14th Amendment. It doesn't identify the cases in which doubts were expressed, but I would bet a handsome sum that they were all pre-1868 cases.

[MayBee]

Exactly,MayBee.It's probably also why it isn't a bad idea to be less demanding that schools teach everything just the way we believe it should be. My son went to a school big on international orgs and multiculturalism, etc. Most of the foreign kids raced to get green cards as soon as they were eligible for them and didn't go work for the UN, etc--they went into business or the professions.They were not as dumb as their teachers on these things.

Yes, I believe it!
If you explain to your kids why you think as you do, what your thought process is, they become skeptical of people who are unwilling to do the same. I've been surprised how willing my kids are to express their contrary opinions in class- and how much their teachers actually respect them for it.

[boris]

"they were all pre-1868 cases"

Why would that be relevant? ...

"children born within the jurisdiction without reference to the citizenship of their parents. As to this class there have been doubts"

Seems to apply to general anchor baby case.

[boris]

-- apply to a general anchor baby class --

[bgates]

We had an interesting conversation in Sunday school this morning, about (yes!) civility. The class had a guest to spark the discussion, the brother of a friend of mine. My friend is a Democrat, but she's not hateful about it; I'm not sure what her brother's positions are. The class is mostly parents of small children, so the conversation ended up focusing on how to ensure civility among the kids - until just before the end, when one of the well-meaning church ladies opined that the nation as a whole needed to be more civil in our dealings with other countries, for instance graciously stepping aside as China becomes the preeminent world power. I mentioned how the US and China aren't the same kind of place, and quoted (without attribution) Rush's line about how the state dinner had last year's Nobel Peace Prize winner hosting the jailer of this year's Nobel Peace Prize. Naturally, there are things I'd like to say about that award and last year's winner, but one step at a time.

That example didn't seem to make much of an impression. My friend's brother had an anecdote, though: he'd been to China, and said he was in Beijing - Tienanmen, in fact - with a Chinese associate, and saw a woman in hysterics in front of the guards outside a building where some important Commies worked. The woman had been victimized by local government officials, and she didn't know where else to go. The ChiCom guards were as unsympathetic as you might expect, but she persisted, until finally they picked this woman up and dropped her face-first on the pavement.

The nice church ladies were shocked that such a thing could happen. I don't know if they didn't know, or if they manage to not think about it at all until somebody provides a vivid reminder.

[Danube of Thought]

Boris, bear in mind that the Iranian lady would first have to reside in the US for 14 years. She would also have to get about 70 million votes to win.

The constitution does not prevent truly horrible people from running for president, and many have done so. It is the voters who are left to filter them out.

[Threadkiller]

The founding fathers created a system where the child of sworn enemies, as long as the child was born on U.S. soil, can be President. In their time they left the opening for Queen Victoria, born in 1819, to be POTUS, if she was born here. You know how they loved those Brits, despite a War of Independence with them.

In our time Ahmedinejad can sire a child on a UN visit and that child qualifies.

[matt]

clarice;

How is it that Plato understood the base, manipulative puppeteers so well 2,500 years ago and yet our society, the fruit of the Renaissance and the Industrial Revolution and the Information Revolution misses this lesson so very completely?

Then again, he would have viewed the Roman Empire in the same light.History repeating.

[boris]

"the voters who are left to filter them out"

Wich IMO gives the voters a constutional duty (and mechanism) to determine the birth circumstances of any candidate.

[matt]

I find it absolutely jarring that the president would praise Roe v Wade when the news of the monster in Philadelphia is so fresh.

[rse]

I am just glad that this is the place to hang out on a Saturday night for just the cost of doubling a home cooked meal.

Clarice- You and I have talked about the changes in IB over time. I think it is becoming more aggressive because with the adoption of Common Core, the training has pushed the teachers to be more overt in the indoctrination side.

These arguments on why inquiry learning works better than rote learning may not be grounded in fact but they have been developed by behavioral psychologists who are quite skilled in marketing.

They know there is a huge segment of teachers who are quite receptive to believing that they would have learned more and been better students if only someone had taught them in a different way.

[Threadkiller]

Is it accepted that anchor babies are citizens?

">http://www.heritage.org/Research/Reports/2006/03/From-Feudalism-to-Consent-Rethinking-Birthright-Citizenship"> From Feudalism to Consent : Rethinking Birthright Citizenship
Published on March 30, 2006 by John C. Eastman

The widely held, though erroneous, view today is that any person entering the territory of the United States-even for a short visit; even illegally-is considered to have subjected himself to the jurisdiction of the United States, which is to say, subjected himself to the laws of the United States. Surely one who is actually born in the United States is therefore "subject to the jurisdiction" of the United States and entitled to full citizenship as a result, or so the common reasoning goes. Textually, such an interpretation is manifestly erroneous, for it renders the entire "subject to the jurisdiction" clause redundant. Anyone who is "born" in the United States is, under this interpretation, necessarily "subject to the jurisdiction" of the United States. Yet it is a well-established doctrine of legal interpretation that legal texts, including the Constitution, are not to be interpreted to create redundancy unless any other interpretation would lead to absurd results.”

[clarice]

matt, Remember what Mr.Garfinckle told me,"There's nothing new under the sun."
I think Plato was recalling how easy it was to turn public opinion against Socrates and force him to drink hemlock.

[Chubby]

Janet, thanks for the repost of Boehner's statement.

[Janet]

I was wondering if there were more documented cases of women dying from coat hanger induced abortions or from poorly monitored & regulated abortion clinics?

[Danube of Thought]

That clause in the 14th isn't redundant. It denies citizenship to children of foreign diplomats brn on US soil.

""the voters who are left to filter them out."

By "them" I was referring to "truly horrible people.". But in any event the voters have no constitutional duty either to vote against horrible people or to determine a candidate's citizenship status.

[(Another) Barbara]

A name change does alter one's birth certificate in Hawaii. We made a legal change of our daughter's first name in 1963, when she was a toddler (we had never called her by the name we too hastily had put on her birth certificate). When I had to get an official copy of her certificate so she could start school, we found a slash mark through the original name, her legally replaced one typed in above it, as well as the ID# of the court document, the date of the action and the name of the judge who had granted the request.

Months ago my husband and I discussed this, knowing that B.O.s certificate -- if it existed in Hawaii's files -- would be annotated similarly, just as my daughter's will always and forever be. We pooh-poohed that as a reason for his hiding it, though, believing it an insufficient rationale.

[Danube of Thought]

But suppose you had been living in Idaho when you changed your daughter's name, Barbara?

The "jurisdiction" clause in the 14th would also deny citizenship to the children of soldiers in an invading army. But illegal aliens are clearly subject to US jurisdiction.

[bgates]

But enough of what I think of the Chinese government. What does the Chinese government think of us?

At the White House State dinner on Jan. 19, about six minutes into his set, Lang Lang began tapping out a famous anti-American propaganda melody from the Korean War....a leading piece of anti-American propaganda by the Chinese Communist Party (CCP) for decades....

The song...describes how beautiful China is and then near the end has this verse, “When friends are here, there is fine wine /But if the jackal comes /What greets it is the hunting rifle.” The “jackal” in the song is the United States....

Have any of you Sinologists heard of that number?

[Threadkiller]

--"It denies citizenship to children of foreign diplomats brn on US soil."--

And more...

When pressed about whether Indians living on reservations would be covered by the clause since they were "most clearly subject to our jurisdiction, both civil and military," for example, Senator Lyman Trumbull, a key figure in the drafting and adoption of the Fourteenth Amendment, responded that "subject to the jurisdiction" of the United States meant subject to its "complete" juris­diction, "[n]ot owing allegiance to anybody else."[4] And Senator Jacob Howard, who introduced the language of the jurisdiction clause on the floor of the Senate, contended that it should be construed to mean "a full and complete jurisdiction," "the same jurisdiction in extent and quality as applies to every citizen of the United States now"[5] (i.e., under the 1866 Act). That meant that the children of Indians who still "belong[ed] to a tribal relation" and hence owed allegiance to another sovereign (however dependent the sovereign was) would not qualify for citizenship under the clause. Because of this interpretative gloss, provided by the authors of the provision, an amendment offered by Senator James Doolittle of Wisconsin explicitly to exclude "Indians not taxed," as the 1866 Act had done, was rejected as redundant.[6]

The interpretative gloss offered by Senators Trumbull and Howard was also accepted by the Supreme Court-by both the majority and the dis­senting justices-in The Slaughter-House Cases.[7] The majority in that case correctly noted that the "main purpose" of the clause "was to establish the citizenship of the negro" and that "[t]he phrase, 'subject to its jurisdiction' was intended to exclude from its operation children of ministers, consuls, and citizens or subjects of foreign States born within the United States."[8] Justice Steven Field, joined by Chief Justice Chase and Justices Swayne and Brad­ley in dissent from the principal holding of the case, likewise acknowledged that the clause was designed to remove any doubts about the constitu­tionality of the 1866 Civil Rights Act, which pro­vided that all persons born in the United States were as a result citizens both of the United States and of the state in which they resided, provided they were not at the time subjects of any foreign power.[9]

From Eastman link.