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February 28, 2011

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centralcal

Finally - been hoping all morning you would report in, Clarice, before I have to leave for work!!!

Thomas Collins

Sue, tonight my prayers will be for your friend's son and his family. Whether or not some MSM outlet gives extensive coverage to this, everyone who matters in America mourns this loss and honors the service to their country of the fallen.

anduril

George Friedman has an excellent article explaining why the US should Never Fight a Land War in Asia.

Here's a key paragraph from the lengthy article:

Wars need to be fought with ends that can be achieved by the forces available. Donald Rumsfeld once said, "You go to war with the Army you have. They're not the Army you might want or wish to have at a later time." I think that is a fundamental misunderstanding of war. You do not engage in war if the army you have is insufficient. When you understand the foundations of American military capability and its limits in Eurasia, Gates' view on war in the Eastern Hemisphere is far more sound than Rumsfeld's.

Friedman follows that observation up with this:

Diplomacy for the United States is about maintaining the balance of power and using and diverting conflict to manage the international system. Force is the last resort, and when it is used, it must be devastating. The argument I have made, and which I think Gates is asserting, is that at a distance, the United States cannot be devastating in wars dependent on land power. That is the weakest aspect of American international power and the one the United States has resorted to all too often since World War II, with unacceptable results. Using U.S. land power as part of a combined arms strategy is occasionally effective in defeating conventional forces, as it was with North Korea (and not China) but is inadequate to the demands of occupation warfare. It makes too few troops available for success, and it does not know how many troops might be needed.
clarice

How terribly sad, Sue. I am sorry to hear this.

Jane (sit on the couch or save your country)

Mel,

I've been to Paris twice and both times I stayed at the Meurice - something that is way beyond my pay scale at this point.

The first time I went with someone who was pretty famous at the time so I got the most amazing room over looking the Eiffel Tower. Never in my life have I been in a hotel room that rivaled that one.

A few years later I took my niece to France for her January break in college and we spent our last night in Paris. I really wanted her to see a hotel like The Meurice, as she was putting herself through school and never had a penny extra. It was the night of the Superbowl and we woke up at 4:00 AM to see the PATS win with a last minute field goal. At any rate she convinced the people at the front desk to show us the penthouse which had a 3 sided porch over looking the Eiffel Tower.

Thanks for the suggestion. I need to figure out when I am going (hint hint Daddy) before I book anything.

Sue

He was 25 years old and leaves behind a 3 year old son. I can't find any details online yet. I'm not sure what part of the country he was in and the stories I have found don't have names yet. His uncle just told me he and 2 others were killed yesterday evening. I'm not even sure how he was killed.

Jane (sit on the couch or save your country)

Clarice,

When you have parties like that do you tell your guests that the people at JOM have their backs?

Captain Hate

narc, are you the first person alphabetically in Janet's friends list?

Jane (sit on the couch or save your country)

Sue,

I am so so sorry.

Melinda Romanoff

Sue-

There were 2 incidents in Afghanistan on the 28th, with an IED in Eastern Afg. being the likely one.

I got the info here.

I am so sorry for their loss and my prayers are with those families.

Captain Hate

Sue, the MFM became officially uninterested in soldiers's deaths on Asian battlefields on January 20, 2009. I'm sorry for your friends's loss of a hero.

Thomas Collins

See LUN for the latest ramblings of Deval Patrick's Labor Czar. Apparently the Czar wants to go to "war" with the Wisconsin Governor.

I am sure there will be forthcoming a Paul Krugman column decrying the tone of the Labor Czar's remark.

Sue

Thanks guys. Keep the family in your prayers, especially his son. I'm just angry that his death hasn't even rated the front page of any newspaper yet. I wanted this son of bitch we call president to bring them home, since winning is not part of his plan. I feel like John Kerry, eff him, asking who is the last to die for a lost cause?

Melinda Romanoff

Sue-

NBC just twittered it.

Looking...

Ignatz

--George Friedman has an excellent article explaining why the US should Never Fight a Land War in Asia.--

Guess that whole "War in the Pacific" thing was an abject failure.

clarice

Jane, I told him that he was a big star on the internet and that the folks at the blog I most frequent are huge supporters of his. I like him more every time I see him and my husband does, too. He is the most straight forward Congressman I have ever known..he is exactly what he appears to be in public.

rse

Oh Sue. That is heartbreaking. Please let me know if I can do anything for her.

I mean it.

Captain Hate

He is the most straight forward Congressman I have ever known..he is exactly what he appears to be in public.

Isn't it sad that one person sticks out in a large population as being a genuine person?

Melinda Romanoff

New earthquake in NZ, 4.5 near Wellington

Sue

Mel,

Thanks.

Danube of Thought

Terribly sad, Sue. God bless the young man's family.

centralcal

Sue: How tragic for all those who loved him (and his companions who also died.) All soldiers and their families should always be in our prayers.

MayBee

Sue- I'm so sorry to hear about your friend's son. My heart goes out to his parents and his baby.

Jane (sit on the couch or save your country)

Clarice,

It is so nice to hear that someone is as they seem - like all of us!!!

Danube of Thought

Looks like Ohio will get it done first.

COLUMBUS, Ohio (AP) — An Ohio Senate committee plans to revise and vote on a bill Tuesday abolishing most collective bargaining rights for more than 350,000 state workers, teachers, safety forces and other public employees.

Union groups and Democrats were rallying what was expected to be thousands of protesters back to the Statehouse for the third week in a row in an effort to stop the bill.

The measure initially was aimed at abolishing most collective bargaining rights, but a compromise announced last week would allow unions to negotiate on wages only and would add a prohibition on public-employee strikes.

I'm not liking the polling I'm seeing on this issue lately, even allowing for the polling flaws and biases. The only thing to do is press on and do what's right, and educate the public as much as possible.

Captain Hate

For not the first time in my life, I'm proud to be an Ohioan.

anduril

One of the nice things about George Friedman's articles is that they tend to be very thorough--he pays attention to most variables and addresses them all. Thus, for example, he draws an explicit distinction between "land wars" (the title of the article: Never Fight a Land War in Asia) and the projection of force by sea and/or air power. Geography also comes into play. Such distinctions, of course, are lost on persons who fail to read his articles or whose reading comprehension skills are sub par.

While Friedman no doubt considers such basic distinctions to be understood with regard to the US - Japanese war--i.e., not requiring extended discussion for an intelligent audience--if pressed for further explanation I'm sure he'd point out that the Japanese Empire had violated elementary strategic principals that Friedman addresses in his article, such as overextended supply lines (throughout the Pacific and Indonesia) and--duh!--getting involved in a land war in Asia (China, Indochina, Burma, etc.).

Efficient projection of sea and air power--ultimately including air delivery of nuclear weapons--allowed the US to avoid involvement in a land war in Asia. The results of and lessons learned from US involvement in limited land wars in the Pacific theater--island wars--played directly into the US decision to deploy nuclear weapons in order to force a Japanese surrender and avoid the worst case scenario: a land war in Asia which would have afforded strategic benefits to the Soviet Union.

Melinda Romanoff

Cap'n-

That'll be brief.

Rob Crawford

I'm not liking the polling I'm seeing on this issue lately, even allowing for the polling flaws and biases.

So ignore it. It's just a freaking poll.

Jane (sit on the couch or save your country)

The only thing to do is press on and do what's right, and educate the public as much as possible.

During my 5 seconds of watching MSNBC this morning they came up with a compromise: Prohibit contributions to any one you collective bargain with.

I immediately thought of all the ways the unions would cheat, but if anyone had some integrity, it's not a bad start.

Pagar

Sue, our prayers will include his family and friends.

The LUN may be part of the story.

The LUN is worth reading to show how much of our efforts over there are wasted.

Rob Crawford

No dice, Jane. The unions would just arrange to "swap" pols and fund each other.

Maybe -- MAYBE -- if the unions were forbidden to be larger than a single employer. No NEA, just lots of little local teacher's unions.

narciso

This last PPP poll, they didn't just cook it, they sauteed with lemon butter, in the LUN

anduril

Hugh Hewitt offers the national GOPers advice:

With the showdown in Madison competing with the battle for Tripoli on the networks, the budget debate in D.C. has slipped from the front pages. You may have missed that the Democrats blinked yesterday on the stopgap measure for the two weeks after this Friday. Not a big deal, but another preliminary signal that the Dems know they have lost the debate over spending. Does the GOP know that it has won? Did the GOP ever want to win?

...

That's the upside of the Wisconsin preview of coming attractions. The center-right has rallied to Governor Walker, and despite all the noise and all the wildly biased MSM coverage and all the made-up polls, the clear sense is that the public and especially the grassroots are standing with the Wisconsin governor and that the GOP especially is supporting him. When his "austerity" budget passes and the world doesn't end up north, the whole country will understand that the endless cries of shock, horror and doom are just diversions to keep attention off of the staggering costs of government contracts with public employee unions and of the size of the transfer payments of the various entitlements.

What Paul Ryan needs to do is be as public, as prepared and as bold as Scott Walker, and so too must Speaker Boehner and Leader Cantor. The sooner the better for the unveiling of the FY 2012 budget, even as the battles over the CR and the debt ceiling continue.

Jane (sit on the couch or save your country)

I agree Rob. I couldn't see around the cheating. Of course maybe if the penalty for any attempts to get around the law is the dismantling of the union and the death penalty to the pol who took the money, it might be okay.

Jack is Back!

iggy,

Consider the source! Vinzinni in "The Princess Bride":)

Danube of Thought

There's also CBS and NY Times polling.

Not good, but wait till we see the polling on how much people like what has to be done to social security, medicare and medicaid.

Melinda Romanoff

JiB-

Wallace Shawm's greatest role, by far and the only one of two works by Rob Reiner I like.

DebinNC

Some leaks from Walker's budget presentation today.

Joe Scarborough noted today the problem libs face in trying to demonize Paul Ryan and Scott Walker, who he desribes as "dull as dishwater" and as threatening as Fred McMurray in My Three Sons. hehe

narciso

What you don't like 'Spinal Tap', CBS/New Times ugh, it's the credentialed moron's Helms Deep

Porchlight

I'm very sorry to hear your sad news, Sue. It is hard not to be angry.

anduril

reputedly advice given by General Douglas MacArthur to President John F. Kennedy, in 1961.

Porchlight

as threatening as Fred McMurray in My Three Sons.

What about Fred MacMurray in Double Indemnity?

It does scare libs that there aren't any easy angles on these guys.

MarkO

Awful news, Sue. Words fail.

Captain Hate

Yeah what's the other Meathead movie, Mel? Stand by Me?

caro

Oh,Sue,that is such sad news. I am so sorry.

DebinNC

I wish everyone polled about budgets had to study this chart before answering. Even better, given the literacy rate public schools have given us, would be the same chart with pics instead of words.

Ignatz

--Efficient projection of sea and air power--ultimately including air delivery of nuclear weapons--allowed the US to avoid involvement in a land war in Asia.--

So the Philippines and Okinawa and New Guinea aren't in Asia and the Marines don't fight ground wars? That the Marines ride ships to their ground wars does not mean they do not fight ground wars. You have seen them disembarking on the beach right?
The lessons Friedman and Gates learned are not the lessons of history.
The lessons are, if possible, don't do COIN or nation building in Asia and don't fight any war, including ground wars in Asia, half ass. A half ass strategy is what led to the messes in Korea and Viet Nam. Similarly naive efforts in the ME lately have led to problems after intitial ground, land and sea based overwhelming victories.
Virtually every conventional engagement we have fought on the ground in Asia, as elsewhere, has been a resounding success. It has been the effort to hold, improve and acculturate that ground rather than destroying our enemy that inhabits it that has led to problems.

Danube of Thought

Deb just beat me on posting that chart.

What is to be done? I am not an optimist...

Janet

So sorry also Sue. Ditto what TC said - Sue, tonight my prayers will be for your friend's son and his family. Whether or not some MSM outlet gives extensive coverage to this, everyone who matters in America mourns this loss and honors the service to their country of the fallen.

Captain,
narc, are you the first person alphabetically in Janet's friends list?
No, narciso doesn't have a picture...mystery man.

Melinda Romanoff

Cap'n-

"When Harry Met Sally", for the restaurant and the grape seed scenes, alone. The late Bruno Kirby was great in that, as well.

DoT-

Here's the skew story at Hot Air, not one of the Cap'n's favorites, but they did the math, so I don't have to...

BumperStickerist

Sue - my condolences and prayers to your friend on her loss.

Danube of Thought

Iggy, my understanding of what MacArthur said was that he was excluding Asian wars where control of the sea could determine the outcome, as it did from Guadacanal (ultimately, and barely) to Okinawa, with the Phillipines, Marshalls, Gilberts and Marianas along the way. It was also determinative in Korea (see Inchon) until he got up to the Yalu and encountered the Chinese hordes.

It was not particularly important in Iraq, and even less so in Afghanistan.

Alfred Thayer Mahan and The Influence of Sea Power Upon HIstory could have told Dugout Doug all he needed to know. He learned the hard way.

MayBee

When did it become neutral language to refer to what unions have as collective bargaining "rights"?

narciso

If you don't like Tepid Air, this link works just as well, in the LUN

Janet

We're all aliens... how humans began life in outer space

Now you know I don't believe THAT, but I was wondering about this from the article -
"The early Earth was a very violent place. It was hot and did not have the oxygen we have now so it was not conducive for the presence of molecules needed for life," Dr Smith said."

I wonder if that is the correct temperature for earth. (Why do they capitalize earth?) Maybe we aren't suppose to have oxygen either? Someone call algore. Perhaps life itself is what ruined earth...or Earth.

fdcol63

Just another example of the Bizarro World we're now living in, and a reminder of the worthlessness of the UN:


UN set to adopt report praising Libya's record
Bloodshed continues but world body hails human rights

http://www.ottawacitizen.com/news/world/adopt+report+praising+Libya+record/4363104/story.html

fdcol63

end bold

matt

MacArthur's advice on land wars in Asia has repeatedly been taken out of context from what I can tell. It bugs me when people use broad brush strokes. So I looked up and found what I think is the tape Kennedy made of the conversation, which was about strategy.It's on my blog a few days ago.

The old soldier's advice was based as much upon his experience with the Chinese in Korea as anything else, and his greatest fear was being overrun with hordes of the enemy as had happened in Korea.

MacArthur's recommendation was blockade first, and that air power would be a standoff. Slugging it out was the last recourse.

This was then transliterated by staffers after the fact into a much broader statement.

Then the GD Secretary of Defense had the nerve to use the phrase flippantly last week to bolster his political views frosted me. That and the moronic policy in Afghanistan these days. There is no policy. There is no plan. Even the senior personnel over there are wondering WTF.

Armies are not raised to accomplish such tasks. They are raised to fight and win.Instead they have no real defined mission except to walk around and get shot at.

They are the best in the world, but when given an impossible mission, they just suck it up and say "yes sir".It's a crying shame. Sue, I am very sorry for your friend's family's loss.

Janet

Bold is okay...better bold than italics.

Ignatz

Thanks DoT.
As you note, I am not responding to MacArthur's point so much as flawed interpretations of it by others.
I suspect, considering MacArthur's recently concluded experience in Korea, his main point was don't get involved in a land war in Asia with the Chinese or the Russians, a point with which I readily agree and the equally cogent reciprocal of which is don't get involved in a land war with Americans in North America.
In conventional military engagements we have never been conclusively defeated in Asia and even when temporarily set on our heels have recovered, but we have suffered under terrible strategy and policy which have led to some pretty egregious blunders, including what I consider to be the current one in Afghanistan.

Ranger

.

Ignatz

I see matt pretty much wrote my post for me and, as usual, better than I did. :)

fdcol63

Sorry for the bold problem

Danube of Thought

Again I urge a reading of Gen. Krulak's letter to George Will re Afghanistan. I can't find a linkable one but you can readily find it with Google.

Melinda Romanoff

Janet-

Planets are capitalized, therefore "earth" is what you stick your fingers in for gardening.

As far as where humans came from, I have no idea. I wasn't there.

I know you smoke, but here's a piece on a different type of smoker, which may, or may not, have been a cradle of microscopic life.

Captain Hate

Oh Foul Air has its uses; they're very fast on posting vids for example. And one of their posters doesn't annoy me. It'll take a lot of time and compromising to come up with a third positive.

Melinda Romanoff

/b> off?

Thomas Collins

See LUN for a link to a page of the Small Wars Journal web site, which page has a link to the email to which DoT refers in his 11:57 AM post.

Melinda Romanoff

DoT-

Do you mean this letter?

Rob Crawford

And one of their posters doesn't annoy me.

Posters or commenters? There may be one or two of their commenters who doesn't annoy me.

narciso

There are some good posters like JE Dyer, on foreign policy, former naval intelligence officer, and some others on cultural/
political issues, but they have earned their sobriquet

Jack is Back!

Fred McMurrays greatest role was in The Caine Mutiny. The unmentioned but obvious tension between him, Van Johnson and Bogey was the greatest piece of ensemble acting I have seen. My favorite movie of all time.

[Heads up: Posting funny vid of Penguins at Otway Sound at YouTube. Will send url when processing completed]

Captain Hate

Their commenters range from slightly amusing to sub-trolls. It used to be a lot better but I think AllahEeyore annoyed or banned enough people to make it fairly worthless (about the time that I enrolled there). Sometimes their commenters talk about AoS as if they're Little Red Riding Hood and the moron home is the dark woods

Captain Hate

narc is right on JE Dyer; I wish he commented here

Elliott

Jane,

I sent you an email. I hope it escaped the spam filter.

MarkO

Speaking of cutting back: "Frank Rich, the New York Times’s longtime theater critic who rose to become its most prominent and powerful opinion columist, is leaving the newspaper to join New York Magazine"

Does that mean we can cut back talking about the little dork?

Melinda Romanoff

Hi Elliot!

(And there go my Paris suggestions...)

Pagar

Allen West, telling it like it is again.

LUN

"Allen West Calls Wisconsin Fleebaggers “Cowards,” Akin to Army Deserters"

anduril

Let me just add--for those who are looking for a basic understanding of the strategic military issues involved in our current Asian land wars, Friedman's article (linked above) is a handy reference to the issues. Ignore the trolls on this thread who are clumsily seeking to somehow score points against me and read Friedman. No, his article isn't a complete treatise, but it will acquaint you with basic concepts and may enable you to sort through some of the chaff in discussions on the choices we face as a nation. It may also help you decide re which candidates have a clue on these matters and which don't.

Dave (in MA)

OT, but what the heck:

(based on this old classic.)

Jim Ryan

You know, maybe. I don't know.

Sue

I just spoke with his uncle again. He was an ordinance specialist out of Fort Polk LA. His unit was hit a couple of weeks ago and he was wounded, but only slightly. Yesterday, he was put with a new unit to go out and do what bomb specialists do. Something went wrong and he was killed. He leaves behind a wife, 2 daughters, ages 3 and 1 (his brother has the 3 year old son, I confused them). He was on his 3rd tour. He called his wife yesterday morning (around 3 our time) and talked to her. Yesterday evening, the military is at her door advising her he is dead. God, this really sucks.

Frau Mitleid

Sue, my thoughts are with you. I know how painful it is to lose a son. Strange that we saw the faces of those who died in Iraq. Now, the sacrifices are almost anonymous.

DebinNC

"Holder said that a "committee" would decide how Bin Laden would be handled, if captured."

I can't imagine this bunch will be given another term, but I couldn't believe they'd get the first one.

Melinda Romanoff

I am so sorry Sue, that is terrible.

narciso

How ignorant can people be to misunderstand Ferguson's point, in the LUN.

jimmyk

I'm not liking the polling I'm seeing on this issue lately, even allowing for the polling flaws and biases.

I'll bet most people aren't aware that CB for public employees is not the norm, and where it exists is of recent vintage. (I was going to say that even Obama seems unaware of it, but that's weak evidence since he's less informed than the average man on the street.)

These poll questions that refer to CB as a "right" automatically bias ignoramuses toward supporting it.

Danube of Thought

That's the one, Mel.

PD

Rush was referring to "Waiting for Superman" today, and while he was talking it occurred to me (duh) that the local library system might have it.

Turns out there are 16 copies in the country libraries and I am now 335th in the queue waiting to check out a copy. Looks like there is a fair amount of interest in these parts.

Danube of Thought

Breaking Fleebagger news:

Fox Nation has learned exclusively from a highly placed source within Wisconsin state politics that the fourteen AWOL Democrats are experiencing "dissension in the ranks." State Sen. Julie Lassa (D) is pregnant and "extremely unhappy" about being on the run. State Sen. Jon Erpenbach (D) has been hit particularly hard by his paycheck being withheld. Wisconsin State Senate leadership is currently negotiating with eight of the fourteen to come home. Gov. Scott Walker (R) has declared today the deadline for action on his budget repair bill and plans to give a budget address at 5 p.m. ET. A deal may be announced around that time.

I agree, JimmyK. I also suspect they are unaware the federal employees have no such "rights."

Danube of Thought

Suppose the pollsters described them as "collective bargaining privileges?"

Porchlight

I think J E Dyer is a she, Cap'n. She has dropped by here once or twice that I can remember, but not nearly often enough.

I have a different name over at HotAir. I really like some of the commenters there, but there's a lot to wade through for sure.

Jane (sit on the couch or save your country)

Elliott,

I didn't get it. Did you send it to fwdaj@live.com?

Frau Mitleid

Wasn't it Barbara Stanwyck who was threatening in the film? I remember Fred as a victim of her noir charms.

MayBee

Suppose pollsters mentioned there is currently no right to not give your own money to the union.

Ignatz

From Friedman's article;

As a result, the United States is well-suited for the initial phases of combat, when the task is to defeat a conventional force. But after the conventional force has been defeated, the resistance can switch to methods difficult for American intelligence to deal with. The enemy can then control the tempo of operations by declining combat where it is at a disadvantage and initiating combat when it chooses.

Again he draws the wrong conclusion, to the extent his conclusions are coherent.
That a country must be occupied and pacified is a fairly recent and erroneous concept. It's not fighting the ground war that has been our stumbling block, but occupation and pseudo-westernization, which in our naivete we seem to think we are bound to provide.
Were we to simply do what we are good at our Asian adventures would have been quite successful because, contrary to Friedman, we are quite capable of providing more than enough devastation in a distant ground war, against anything we've encountered, short of the PLA or the Russian Army on their home turf.

Jim Ryan

State Sen. Julie Lassa (D) is pregnant and "extremely unhappy" about being on the run. State Sen.

Sounds like a genius, this Lassa.

Jim Ryan

Okay, I'm listening to Donald Trump bloviate, and you know what? I could vote for that after a few belts.

Captain Hate

I think J E Dyer is a she, Cap'n. She has dropped by here once or twice that I can remember, but not nearly often enough.

I'm sure you're correct.

"Allen West Calls Wisconsin Fleebaggers “Cowards,” Akin to Army Deserters"

Another term of praise to the libs and a swath of organized labor.

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