More On ObamaCare

Orin Kerr notes that the opinion striking down ObamaCare is based on first principles rather than precedent, which may be fine for the Supreme Court but maybe nor for a District judge.

Ezra Klein warns Republicans to back off or the Democrats will unite around single-payer.  Gosh, I know the Constitution is more than a hundred years old and hard to understand, but I think the House of Representatives still plays a role in legislating.

The Times talks about ways to modify ObamaCare and save something like the mandate:

The Obama administration argues that without the insurance mandate consumers might simply wait until they are sick to enroll, undercutting the actuarial soundness of risk pooling and leading to an industry “death spiral.”

But the mandate’s legal and political problems have prompted a few Democratic senators to join Republicans in exploring alternatives that would encourage citizens to buy insurance without requiring it.

For instance, people could be given a narrow window to enroll, and those who miss the deadline would face lengthy waiting periods for coverage.

Alternately, those who apply late and are eligible for government tax credits under the law coverage could be penalized through a reduction of their subsidies.

Denying people coverage if they skipped the open enrollment sounds like the sort of "tough love" Democrats will never tolerate.

I had a similar suggestion, with COBRA as a tarting point. A lot of people worried about pre-existing conditions currently have insurance but worry they might lose their job and their employer-related coverage, or that they can not switch jobs without enduring a pre-existing waiting period uner their new coverage.

The solution is to say that insuarance companies cannot have pre-existing exclusions for anyone who currently has a comparable level of coverage, even with another carrier. Obama's health insurance related income assistance for folks who lose insurance when they their jobs ought to take care of a lot of the rest.

Folks who resoluely gamed the system won't be helped bymy approach.  Sorry.

Comments

[Rob Crawford]

Ezra Klein warns Republicans to back off or the Democrats will unite around single-payer.

Briar patch, throw me into, etc.

[Rob Crawford]

Oh, and WHY IS ANYONE PAYING ANY G(*#$N ATTENTION TO WHAT EZRA "JUICEBOX" KLEIN THINKS?!

His sole accomplishment is graduating with a journalism degree. The level of concern the public should have in his regards is that he gets their order correct and isn't too insistent on up-selling the large fries.

[Ignatz]

--Orin Kerr notes that the opinion striking down ObamaCare is based on first principles rather than precedent, which may be fine for the Supreme Court but maybe nor for a District judge.--

No. Kerr notes that his opinion is that Vinson's opinion defies precedent especially Raich. Vinson's opinion, along with a lot of other people's, is that it does not.
In any event, has Kerr ever found a case which did not, after it had been sufficiently marinated in tendentious and tedious legalistic bromides, justifiably expand the state's power?

[steve]

I believe most employer provided plans do not have pre-existing exclusions provided the employee signs up when first eligible for coverage... so that would be an unlikely reason for someone to not switch jobs.

[Annoying Old Guy]

I don't want to disagree with our esteemed host, but the fact that health coverage is job related is the problem. Putting ever more elaborate kludges on top of that is not a solution. It seems far better to remove the tax code created discount for employer sponsored health plans. Then, people can disconnect the two, and the entire portability problem (which was created by government intervention) goes away. No CORBA, not super-CORBA, no endless legal cases about "equivalent".

[Jack is Back!]

That's an interesting list of the 700+ waivers HHS has granted so far. What is the qualification for the waiver and why doesn't every company and unions apply?

[Porchlight]

The mandate, even if constitutional, won't be enough, because 1) people who currently cannot afford health insurance will still be unable to afford it, especially with the premium hikes we are seeing due to O-care, and 2) there will be a significant population of (probably young) people who won't purchase insurance anyway because they don't feel they need it and because the penalty will be less than the cost of premiums for a year.

Not to mention that there will be many problems enforcing the mandate that will contribute to noncompliance.

Of course the Obama people know all this.

[RichatUF]

JiB-

Campaign contributions and enthusiasm for the Obama Administration.

[clarice]

Email from DeMint:

(Excerpt)There are a number of Democrats up for re-election in 2012 who need to hear from the American people right now. These senators include Jon Tester (D-MT), Ben Nelson (D-NE), Jim Webb (D-VA), Claire McCaskill (D-MO), and Joe Manchin (D-WV). They may not want to listen but it's important that they know you will repeal them at the ballot box if they don't help us repeal the bill.

Winning this battle will require perseverance and patience.
First, we have to put each senator on record and force them to vote on repeal over and over again so their constituents know where they stand.
Then, we have to defeat as many pro-Obamacare senators in 2012 as we can.
And finally, we either have to defeat President Obama or win a super-majority in the House and Senate to override his veto before the law goes fully into effect in 2014.

[Neo]

I changed jobs about 15 years ago, and my new employer did not provide coverage the 1st 6 months of employment, so I used the COBRA coverage from my previous employer.
It wasn't without problems.
About 4 months into the 6 month coverage, I started to have problems with providers telling me that my coverage was being denied by my provider. After a few phone calls, I was told that since my previous employer had closed all offices in my state, it was difficult for them to get timely servicing of their coverage in my state. This went on for about a month.
At 5 months into my 6 month coverage, I called them an told them if they didn't get my coverage enforced, forthwith, I wanted a complete refund of my money. I had coverage within the week.
Obviously, they were trying to play for time so they could keep my funds, without ever getting me any coverage.

[lyle]

Per NRO, Manchin, Nelson, and Webb have stated they will not vote for repeal.

[Captain Hate]

Per Janet, "Blue Dog/Centrist" Webb always ends up siding with the libs.

[clarice]

Three more Republican Senators coming up then, Capt.

[A.S.]

"Orin Kerr notes that the opinion striking down ObamaCare is based on first principles rather than precedent, which may be fine for the Supreme Court but maybe nor for a District judge."

Elsewhere on the Volokh Conspiracy, Ilya Somin notes that Kerr is, in fact, wrong, and that the opinion striking down ObamaCare IS IN FACT based on precedent:

"In an update to his post, Orin insists that Judge Vinson failed to consider existing precedent, which in Orin’s view imposes only “symbolic” limits on congressional power. All I can say is that Vinson in fact discusses current precedent in great detail and explains why it doesn’t cover the mandate case."

http://volokh.com/2011/01/31/todays-florida-district-court-ruling-striking-down-the-obamacare-individual-mandate/

[Charlie (Colorado)]

Elsewhere on the Volokh Conspiracy, Ilya Somin notes that Kerr is, in fact, wrong, and that the opinion striking down ObamaCare IS IN FACT based on precedent:

Orin will, no doubt, ban Ilya from commenting on his posts forthwith.

[NK]

The Obamaniacs are making the dem senators walk the plank on Obomantion-Care, webb, manchin, and the nelson in the hopes that HCR reform politics are better in 18 months. they won't be, rates will still skyrocket, and unemployment will remain high-- Obamantion is really a jobs killer. my guess is at least 2 of those 4 dem sens don't run for re-election in 2012 when this is all done. Webb and manchin will at least get the EPA coal rules delayed, in exchange for walking the plank. For the dem party-- nothing, nothing is more important that Obamanation-Care, theey believe it is the enitlement of all entitlements that guarantees them govt jobs and reletion forever.

[lyle]

Per Janet, "Blue Dog/Centrist" Webb always ends up siding with the libs.

He's a moderate Dem. Of course when the modifier "moderate" is applied to pols of either party, it generally means they vote for what the libs want. cf. McCain, John or Graham, Lindsey.

[Elise]

The solution is to say that insuarance companies cannot have pre-existing exclusions for anyone who currently has a comparable level of coverage, even with another carrier.

Insurance companies are not fungible and deciding what constitutes "comparable" coverage can get very messy and will probably produce require another 2000 page bill to define.

If I'm pretty healthy for 20 years and so get my health insurance from FlyByNight Insurance because it has cheap premiums (due to a lousy payment record which means lots of docs don't take it) then switch to ReallyGood Insurance when I get seriously ill (higher premiums but better network of providers), ReallyGood Insurance gets slammed.

[Ignatz]

As an FYI, I looked into the California version of the pre-existing condition pool that Barrycare set up last October to see what it would do for someone like my wife with her ongoing $1,500 per month treatments.
Suffice it to say it would cost at least as much as our existing high deductible Blue Shield plan and she would have to go without insurance for six months just to qualify.

[Stephanie]

If Vinson gets a strong enough whiff that the Obots are practicing stare narcissus, can't he implement the doomsday scenario and require all departments that are involved in implementation to submit their budget and time reports to the courts to certify that they aren't circumventing the law? Several judges have required this of school districts involved in education related issues like busing and spending per capita redistributing of the wealth.

Rehoist them with their own prior judicial "restraint."

[Comanche Voter]

What's the basis for the 700 plus exemptions from Obama care? Well if you look at who got or gets them, certain patterns emerge.

1. Be a union
2. Be a big donor to Obama's 2008 Campaign
3. Promise to be a big donor to Obama's 2012 campaign

For an absolute lock on getting an exemption be 1,2 and 3 inclusive.

[jimmyk]

Ezra Klein warns Republicans to back off or the Democrats will unite around single-payer.

Don't say I didn't warn you.

Of course, right now the Democrats can unite all they want but they won't be able to pass anything without Republican support.

[bgates]

Annoying Old Guy is right.

[Danube of Thought]

My wife and I both were in the CA pre-existing "high risk" pool for a couple of years. The monthly premiums were very high, and there was an annual cap on benefits of $75K per person. We didn't expect anything sifferent, and I don't see why we should have.

[Danube of Thought]

AOG certainly is right, and to make things far worse the whole goddam scheme was created to ameliorate the impact of WWII wage and price controls. Pretty much like the telephone tax imposed to finance the war with Spain, which I believe was repealed in 2003. Like it, but infinitely worse in its consequences.

[Ignatz]

--My wife and I both were in the CA pre-existing "high risk" pool for a couple of years. The monthly premiums were very high, and there was an annual cap on benefits of $75K per person.--

That program still exists DoT, but the one I was referring to is a new pool without the strict caps of the state run one.
Needless to say it is even more expensive.

[Joey Megele]

Sign ME up already!!!!

[Danube of Thought]

JimmyK, the thing you warned us about has been a possibility hanging over our heads--and often promoted--for sixty years now. It is hard for me to see it as any worse than a fully-implemented Obamacare.

I don't expect we will get it until the next time we bet the bizarre celestial alignment we had during the 111th congress, which I can hope will be something for the grandkids to struggle with.

[Extraneus]

Rush keeps using the "If the mandate is constitutional, then the government can mandate that we all buy a gun!" line, so I emailed him Ranger's brilliant and MUCH better one about mandating that everyone buy lifetime annuities and long-term care insurance, which will allow us to eliminate SS and Medicare, and consequently the national debt.

Hope you don't mind, Ranger. I credited you and JOM.

[Captain Hate]

O/T I didn't see this posted anywhere else here today but if you want your blood to boil, read the LUN. Anybody think this was an honest mistake? Me neither.

[Extraneus]

These are the smartest people we have, so I'm kind of through giving them "honest" mistakes.

[Ranger]

Hope you don't mind, Ranger. I credited you and JOM.

Posted by: Extraneus | February 01, 2011 at 06:56 PM

Glad you did. I really beleive the only way to kill the individual mandate is to terrify the left by showing them its other possible uses. It is funny that for almost a decade the left has been complaining about how Republicans want to "privitize" social secutrity, yet it is the lefts championing of the individual mandate that will allow that to actually happen.

[Captain Hate]

O/T again but this is a good day for catching lowlife pols doing what they do best; in this case Carol Mostly Fraud being classy as ever in the LUN

[Pops]

""Per NRO, Manchin, Nelson, and Webb have stated they will not vote for repeal. ""

I think they meant to say, they plan to lose their re-election campaigns.

[narciso]

Did I see that Webb raised 12K in the last quarter of the year, yeah he's off to a real good start

[Captain Hate]

He can always return to that lucrative career of writing NAMBLA spank material

[Pops]

If the Republicans were smart, they would EXPAND the individual mandate. Not only must you buy insurance, but you must buy it in cash only, small bills and you must provide not just a receipt, but a picture of you standing next to your agent with a copy of the contract and this must be sent to the IRS withing 3 days or the fine.,..err tax.. will be doubled.

Then within seven days, but no less then four you must present yourself and the contract, and all members of your family covered by the contract to a Federal Judge, in open court (NOTE: The judiciary will schedule these meetings along with the rest of their court schedule to insure 300 Million people can get appointments within the year.

You must all attest before the judge, under oath that you signed and agree to the terms of your insurance. You also will attest that you intend to eat 3 vegetables and two fruits per day. The judge will keep a formal record, in hand writing (cursive) of all people who appear before him or her, he must also have his pictured taken with them and send those pictures via USPS to a office in Washington by the 8th of each month for all people seen the previous month.

Of course the end of the mandate will state:

Nothing in this bill will be considered as onerous or outside of normal funding of the Judiciary.

In addition, in all cases when a person in the judges jurisdiction is found to NOT have a health insurance policy, all Federal judges in that district must appear before an IRS court of review and explain the circumstances of the person not completing the mandate.

No overtime will be granted as judges are already overpaid and underworked.

I am sure the Judiciary will embrace such MANDATES.

[Captain Hate]

Pops, that was a brilliant suggestion but it became invalid after the first 5 words.

[Pops]

As was pointed out on Hannity today, Unions make up 7% or the private workforce, yet somehow they have received 40% of the Obamacare waivers.

Can they even spell EQUAL PROTECTION?

[Pops]

My biggest problem with the left, and most beltway/New York reporters is they totally confuse the Federal Government with the actual country of the UNited States of America. As if the Federal Government is some kind of barometer of the country when its just a bunch of self absorb political scum shovelling money out the door to get re-elected.

The Federal budget has NO relationship to the countries INVESTMENTS in education, technology, etc. etc. The prvate sector, the people are the biggest investors and confiscation of Captiol by DC only can have the affect of reducing Americas investments in anything and/or everything.

The United States of America are NOT the federal government, stop treating them as the same thing.

[Pops]

My second biggest problem is that if the left wants to provide healthcare to everyone - they can do it tomorrow and they don't need a single change in the law. Obama can step down, or he can appoint Bill Clinton or anyone else to start a private foundation to provide funding for healthcare for the poor...it would be a wonderful charity.

They could raise billions from all their rich friends and they can provide healthcare without involving the federal government, no mandates, no coersion, no forcing everyone to do and act the way you wish.

But why ohh why, for the past 100 years have they not done this? Why must they spend all their time and energy forcing it into a Federal Government program?

The secret is it's because they don't give a damn about the needy, or they would have provided their billions long ago, they care about power, the power to control others regardless of the others wealth, because they would have the power of the gun, and the jail, etc.

How about a federal mandate tht you must give 700 dollars to a private healthcare charity??

Liberals would barf....

[Ignatz]

--Not only must you buy insurance, but you must buy it in cash only, small bills and you must provide not just a receipt, but a picture of you standing next to your agent with a copy of the contract.....--

And a copy of your original birth certificate?

[Extraneus]

What you talkin' bout, Willis?

[Threadkiller]

--"And a copy of your original birth certificate?"--

I saw that!

[Janet]

Webb recently said the Obama administration did a 'terrible job' on health care.
...but he won't vote for repeal.

[Janet]

WTF?
Webb The Fool...

[Captain Hate]

Ahhhh Janet, you surely didn't expect to have logical consistency emerging from that humongous melon, did you?

[Janet "My Fresca is about to blow!"]

from that humongous melon,

Hahaha...I'm not gonna get tired of the big head jokes anytime soon.
...and I think just yesterday I posted something about good manners. I'm such a hypocrite....making fun of Jim 'uber noggin' Webb. Oh well, what's that line from Tombstone - "My hypocrisy knows no bounds".

[Captain Hate]

Oh please; belittling the pompous isn't bad manners. Churchill did it all the time.

[Sara (Pal2Pal)]

I think I still like Coulter's mandate suggestion best: mandate that everyone MUST buy a Bible.

[jimmyk]

JimmyK, the thing you warned us about has been a possibility hanging over our heads--and often promoted--for sixty years now. It is hard for me to see it as any worse than a fully-implemented Obamacare.

Of course, but these constitutional challenges point the way for the left to now converge on "single payer" as the only "constitutional" health care reform. I agree that it ain't gonna happen any time soon, but it only took 16 years from the demise of Hillarycare to the passage of Obamacare, so I wouldn't be so optimistic.

[cathyf]

The solution is to say that insuarance companies cannot have pre-existing exclusions for anyone who currently has a comparable level of coverage, even with another carrier.

Uh, they passed that law. It took effect July, 1997.

[Captain Hate]

If the clown car administration was serious about helping the economy, they'd abide by the judge's ruling while claiming the 2,000 page monstrosity was based on flawed projections and state that in accordance with the wishes of the voters would go back to the drawing board in a spirit of bipartisanship and take a more market driven approach. That will certainly not happen but if it did would almost guarantee his reelection in 2012.

[JB]

"I agree that it ain't gonna happen any time soon, but it only took 16 years from the demise of Hillarycare to the passage of Obamacare, so I wouldn't be so optimistic."

If we're safe for another 16 years, I'll be relieved. Medicine will be fundamentally different by then.