Libya - Accelerating The Debacle

France and Italy will join Britain in sending advisors to train the Libyan rebels.  But no ground troops.  Not yet, anyway.

Geez, what kind of world are we living in when a country like Qatar can't fulfill its alliance obligation by hiring a thousand mercenaries and sending them to Libya?  Where is Blackwater when you need them?

From the Times:

The moves to send military personnel have been likened by some critics to America’s decision to send military advisers to Vietnam, raising worries in both countries that they are being drawn closer to a conflict with no clear resolution on behalf of a fractious and militarily ineffective insurgent force about which little is known.

I think that covers it.

Government ministers from all three countries stressed that they did not plan to send ground troops to support the rebels.

I think that a month ago there were no plans to send advisors.

Comments

[bgates]

Q: What's the difference between military advisors and ground troops?

A: Racist!

[MayBee]

I know, bgates! Military advisors give troops magic hats.

[narciso]

This is a fair deal, TM, pray he doesn't alter it further

[Danube of Thought]

There certainly must be a special place in hell for people who wage war this way.

[Rob Crawford]

DoT -- it's miles above the circle reserved for those who prefer to target civilians.

This is ineffective, wasteful, and cowardly. To the extent it's wasteful of lives, it's immoral.

More of a sin of omission than commission.

[bgates]

a fractious and militarily ineffective insurgent force

I used to think the Democrats were opposed to getting involved in civil wars.

Turns out they just wanted to take a 150 year hiatus since they lost ours.

[clarice]

Here's where NATO should look for military advisors, not Belgium or Sweden or Norway. Unless, of course, they are looking to jawbone the Qaddafi forces insensate.:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SGUxzISr9Us&feature=player_embedded#at=128

[narciso]

Yes, this was the way, the campaign in Bosnia was conducted, which 'unexpectedly' fueled the
AQ surge in the mid 90s, more than anything

[MarkO]

It would be more accurate to say "There are no plans."

I suppose that QDaffy is "targeting civilians," but aren't "civilians" the ones targeting him? Civilians are the WMD of this frolic.

[Cecil Turner]

I think that a month ago there were no plans to send advisors.

Makes sense, since there doesn't appear to be a plan for anything else, either. If you're too busy for those pesky decisions, aimlessness works out well.

If you don't know where you're going . . . any road will get you there.

Or: "when you come to a fork in the road, take it."

[Porchlight]

narciso, this Libya thing makes Bosnia look like D-Day in terms of coordination, planning, and principled leadership.

[Jeff]

French military advisors ... hmmmm ... that worked well in the 'Nam didn't it ?

[narciso]

You have a point there, Porch, so has Dantooine, I mean Misurata, back in rebel hands?

[Army of Davids]

Government Sachs...Golden Slacks.

Obama's guy at the CFTC is a long time Goldman Sachs exec....Gary Gensler.

To the extent there is any "manipulation" in commodity markets...not likely in oil. This is his go to guy on dealing w/ it.

[Ignatz]

--Turns out they just wanted to take a 150 year hiatus since they lost ours.--

Yeah, I never thought about that.
Barry launched Operation: Kill the Wabbit almost to the day of the 150th anniversary of his predecessors in interest launching Operation: Nothing Secedes Like Success.

[bunky]

Send in a robot probe!

[narciso]

More like Bill Murray's Ahabesque quest against the gopher in Caddyshack

[Jim Rhoads a/k/a vnjagvet]

I see the First Demagogue is blaming the high price of gas on eeeevil speeeeeculators (pronounced with a short e). Libya and the restive middle east have nothing whatever to do with it.

[Army of Davids]

Democrats vs Democrats in Detroit.

Teacher's unions failure to deal w/ reality as Mayor Bing tries to salvage the cities finances.

Who's next. Cleveland? Los Angeles? San Francisco?

[bgates]

Jim, I liked how he glided right past inflation and geopolitical concerns to focus on "speculators" (who are probably also "neocons", if you know what I mean). It's weird nobody started speculating on oil prices until the past two years. Must be all those evil oil people from the Bush administration enriching themselves by spreading human misery.

He says there is plenty of supply for the level of demand, and in the same breath says he's going to crack down on price gouging by gas stations. Because that's when the price gougers come out, is when wholesale prices are high and they're selling into a low demand environment.

[Danube of Thought]

Turns out they just wanted to take a 150 year hiatus

Well, JFK and LBJ thought the one in Vietnam offered another irresistible opportunity to get into one we could lose.

[PD]

Apparently Kloppenberg is going to announce at 4 this afternoon whether she's going to stick the taxpayers with the cost of a recount.

[Ranger]

Apparently Kloppenberg is going to announce at 4 this afternoon whether she's going to stick the taxpayers with the cost of a recount.

Posted by: PD | April 20, 2011 at 01:51 PM

They really put themselves in a bind with this one. If they go forward with the recaount, they will alienate the voters for wasting a million bucks of state money. And if they don't go forward with the recount they alienate their moonbat base that is convinced they can still win.

[Steve C.]

Advisors might work if there was someone to advise.

US advisors in Korea and Vietnam had a military force that needed training, guidance and support.

US advisors in El Salvador (limited I think to less than 100 men) were spec ops advisors and aviation specialists. Their mission was to help the Salvadorans organize specialist anti guerilla battalions. We did the same in Columbia.

US advisors to the Afghan Northern Alliance coordinated logistics and air support for an army that had over 20 years of combat experience.

See the common thread? Advisors are useful when there is an existing military organization that needs some help. Given time and money the Europeans could create an anti Qadaffi army. The open question is: Who will pay and how much patience the paymasters have?

[Porchlight]

OT,

Interesting poll news via Peter Wehner at Contentions. Latest WaPo-ABC poll has a ridiculously skewed sample of 35 D/22 R/41 I, yet 45% say they definitely will not vote to re-elect Obama (28% definitely will).

[MayBee]

One of the journalists who made Restrepo killed in Libya

Awful.

[Captain Hate]

If they go forward with the recaount, they will alienate the voters for wasting a million bucks of state money. And if they don't go forward with the recount they alienate their moonbat base that is convinced they can still win.

The smart thing to do would be option 1 so there's no doubt in my mind they'll double down on stoopid with #2.

[Captain Hate]

O/T Tammy Bruce laying the smackdown on the idiots at Wonkette for mocking Trig Palin on his birthday. Behold the depravity of the left. Lots of twitters bailing on linking that cesspool.

[clarice]

Kloppenburg's presser writes itself-- As I was saying before I was so rudely interrupted--I won!

[narciso]

Seriously Captain, those folk over there, have to have a soul as black as coal, to even consider such a thing,

[Rob Crawford]

Wow. So *now* they realize Wonkette is a pit of vipers?

[Ignatz]

--He says there is plenty of supply for the level of demand, and in the same breath says he's going to crack down on price gouging by gas stations. Because that's when the price gougers come out, is when wholesale prices are high and they're selling into a low demand environment.--

Hey, when you're looking for those with the resources to manipulate the vast oil market through speculation where else should one take a close look than Apu down at the corner gas station reaping his windfall profits of 2 cents a gallon.
The alternative, in his universe, is to look at those whom can be counted on for fat checks come campaign 2012.

[Captain Hate]

narc, she read some of the comments (refuses to link the garbage to her site and I'm sure as hell not giving them a hit) and they were as vile as you can get. I'm not even sure they have souls. They're like rabid dogs that should be put down.

[narciso]

Here's the news from Misurata:

http://althouse.blogspot.com/2011/04/tim-hetherington-oscar-nominated-film.html

[narciso]

And it seems Begich isn't the only one who has reached his Peter Principle limit:

http://legalinsurrection.blogspot.com/2011/04/report-finds-david-cicilline-d-ri.html

[Jack is Back!]

That is devasting news to me about Tim Hetherington. I thought Restrepo the most honest documentary yet about war, soldiers, youth in the heart of darkness, sheer terror and courage. I wonder if Seb Junger was with him?

Read the book "War" before you see the film. Magnificent. Sal Giunta's buddies both of them.

[Strawman Cometh]

Back on topic, Hillary has announced they (someone) are negotiating for a bundle of aid for the "rebels" including: uniforms, tents, and Halal meals; but no weapons.

[DebinNC]

The three were working together at the front lines when killed by a rocket launched grenade. Very sad, but not surprising. Meanwhile, we're enabling these questionable guys.

[Sara (Pal2Pal)]

My FOX NY reported:

Two US journalists were killed in Libya Wednesday, the Business Insider reported.

The website reported that Tim Hetherington – who was nominated for an Oscar this year with co-director Sebastian Junger for “Restrepo,” a documentary about US troops in Afghanistan — was killed in Misrata along with fellow photojournalist Chris Hondros.

[Neo]

Did a top official from the Department of Education receive a ‘golden parachute’ upon his leaving the administration for a consulting gig? Documents released Tuesday by the watchdog group Citizens for Responsibility and Ethics in Washington (CREW) show Robert Shireman, a top force at Education pushing “gainful employment” regulations, continued to receive generous federal benefits after he became an intermittent consultant for the agency.

Given that Mr. Shireman started at DOE under Clinton (i.e. most likely a Democrat) and the fact that CREW usually goes after Republicans, I have to ask what CREW doesn't want the IG investigating while they have them look at this "petty crime."

[Janet]

Well at least the toad art has been scrapped.
Army Scraps $600,000 Toad Art Project
That's a little bit of good news...

[Captain Hate]

We may as well surrender when we have geniuses like this against us: http://newsbusters.org/blogs/noel-sheppard/2011/04/20/ed-schultz-again-calls-republicans-liars-lying-himself

[Army of Davids]

Worth paying attention to.

Off-balance sheet re-captialization taxpayer obligation for Fannie and Freddie.

S and P analysts put it in the $650 billion range. Taxpayers chances of being made whole on those two monsters are very different from TARP.

I'm sure the media will notice.

[I R A Darth Aggie]

The difference between Libya and Vietnam? the VietCong at least was an actual organization and could be effective.

[DebinNC]

Obama is sending $25M in non-military Pentagon surplus stuff to protect still-undefined Libyan "civilians". The money for civilian protection, not Gadaffy ousting, will go through the rebel umbrella group, who wouldn't think of siphoning off funds to use as they see fit.

[Captain Hate]

$25M to al Qaeda in Libya? Where are the Republicans on this?

[Danube of Thought]

" the VietCong at least was an actual organization and could be effective"

Yeah. But they were on the other side..

[Rob Crawford]

Yeah. But they were on the other side..

So is everyone in Libya.

[jimmyk]

Advisors are useful when there is an existing military organization that needs some help.

But even then, sending advisors is just a half-measure that ultimately has to get followed up by ground forces (as in Vietnam). When was the last time advisors were actually decisive?

[Jim Rhoads a/k/a vnjagvet]

Bolton was on Fox earlier this afternoon and lit into our Campaigner in Chief for being AWOL on Libya after starting it while on vacation. Bolton said what we need is to get ordnance directly on Qboy, making the point that we have been bombing military targets under the guise of the no fly zone. Failing to go after the head of the command is military malpractice.

The Campaigner in Chief has been engaging in bombing interruptus.

[henry]

TV news-- Kloppster filed for full statewide recount!

Definitely a puppet of Trumka & Jarret, the unions are full in on divide and delay, team Franken has been launched.

Even the news anchors can't believe it.

Kloppsters news conference in a few minutes.

[Sue]

According to Twitter, advertisers are fleeing Wonkette over the post making fun of Trig.

[Sue]

Papa John's Pizza and Huggies, so far.

[centralcal]

Not at all surprised, henry. Lefties are scum and will do whatever it takes, whatever it costs, even if they are destined to lose. Irrational is their middle name. Oh, scratch that - Insane is their middle name.

[henry]

Kloppstervision-- also asking for special investigator for Waukesha county clerk. Lefty euphoria.

Widespread anomalies -- Waukesha, Racine, Fondulac, photocopied ballots in some places. The election seems to be suspect.

Recount makes everyone happy kumbaya ... Recount= democracy.

[daddy]

Well since our Massachusetts JOMer's were all wasting time doing unimportant Tea Party stuff yesterday, I figured somebody had to go watch their hapless RedSox and pretend to pull for them, so last night I got up off the Hotel couch and caught the BeanTowners being shellacked in Oakland 5 - 0 by the Oakland A's.

Nice evening at the Oakland Coliseum, but this being my first trip back to the stadium in about 15 years, I see now what a mess Al Davis made of the Centerfield section. Used to be a nice grassy hill with palm trees and you could see the Oakland hills in the background, but now it's a big concrete monstrous memorial of luxury seats and soulless upperdeck bleachers to Davis and his putrid Oakland Raiders. Ughh, and ugly. The beautiful hills behind are banished forever from view.

Even uglier was that we couldn't drink a drop, (since we had the 2 am alert call for heading home) so had to sit their sober from first pitch starting at 7:05 PM.

Ugliest of all however, was the way the RedSox played. Pee-yew!

Watched Manager Terry Francona get tossed out in I think the second. Saw big Papi (David Ortiz) sort of waddle toward first base at Tortoise speed after hitting multiple pop ups, then just completely give up and head for the dugout when abeam the pitchers mound. Saw about 10,000 Boston clad fans half-heartedly screaming "Yew" for (Youkillis) and something similar for Pedroia, and even trying to get a wave going. But all was to no avail as the A's had properly bribed the umps, and so got myriad calls in their favor that PO'd the Boston semi-faithful something fierce, until new Athletic Hideki Matsui smacked a 2 run double in the 8th that put the game out of reach.

Whatever, about as much fun as I've had sober in a long time.
So Jane, TC, Dave, et al, just wanted you guys to know that somebody was picking up your slack while you guys were being booted out of Sturbridge Restaurants and setting up tents and whatever the heck else you guys were doing up north.

Glad to oblige:)

[centralcal]

Damned good news, Sue. I hope many more follow suit! ::Repeat scumbag epithet from above post.::

[maryrose]

Exercise in futility-CH was right-they are stuck on stupid. I wonder how many teachers will end up getting riffed because the the state of Wisconsin had to waste a million dollars on a recount. These people are immoral!

[henry]

More Kloppster-- Waukesha is filled with crooks etc. I was robbed.

[henry]

In the Q&A, this looks like a setup to fight voter ID. Everyone must have their vote count.

Q: do you still think you won?

A: ... ... Um I feel a lot of things.

[clarice]

I can't believe how stupid the Klopperites are.

[matt]

look, we're sending in $25 Million in non-lethal aid. With the current Pentagon accounting system that equals a couple of armored ice cream trucks and a sno-cone machine.

No word from the press on the composition of the rebel forces, which I find odd. Did any soldiers at all defect? Are the rebels that poorly trained? Was the Libyan army that bad?

The claims of war crimes are also a bit hollow. Civilians typically flee battlefields. It's common sense.

There is so much smoke coming out of this one so far that I believe we are being hoodwinked again. The real reason for being there, which is broad as daylight, is that Germany, France, and Italy depend on Libyan oil. I guess the Brits must as well, or that they are trying to remove the stench of the Lockerbie deal. And why Germany is once again acting fractious when one of their prime sources of oil is in disarray is baffling.

[Jane]

LOL daddy,

Thank goodness someone was working on the BIG stuff.

[henry]

The press is really hammering her, she can't answer anything. Each answer she says she only considers facts and law but the end result is everyone feels good about it.

[narciso]

They are like the Libyans in Hill Valley in 1985, so do you get to examine the ballots in Dane County

[Danube of Thought]

I can't wait to see how ordinary folk in Wisconsin feel about this.

That election is likely to get prominent treatment when the histories of labor's death throes are written.

[Melinda Romanoff]

Henry-

Too entertaining.

[henry]

Narciso, she is going to court tomorrow to force a hand recount of all ballots. 5 million ballots counted by hand -- with full team Franken interference.

[henry]

Mel, buy popcorn futures.

[MayBee]

CNN reporting that now the FAA must now have someone constantly monitoring any plane the First Lady is on, due to the close call on Monday.

Yeah, that's the problem. The problem was that it happened to the first lady.

[Chubby]

Why was a brand like Huggies advertising at a cesspool like Wonkette's in the first place?

[Melinda Romanoff]

Still no market for that, henry

Unfortunately, it's not a deliverable grade to the current corn contract, brutally expensive as it is.

[Melinda Romanoff]

In other Wisconsin news, Bud Selig, renowned auto magnate, orders MLB seizure of LA Dodgers.

[Sue]

Chubby,

Who knows? It is a pro-abortion site. Makes sense to someone for a diaper service to advertise there.

[bgates]

that equals a couple of armored ice cream trucks and a sno-cone machine

Or possibly one armored sno-cone machine.

The real reason for being there, which is broad as daylight, is that Germany, France, and Italy depend on Libyan oil.

Naaaaawwwww...they're Europeans! They're humanitarians! It's the same as everybody pressing for intervention in the Sudan. Remember? Big humanitarian crisis? They had George Clooney and everything. Hey, whatever happened down there?

[Sue]

A tweet:

No Pizza 4me or anyone else who knows truth about #Palin #babygate! She's NOT TRIG's MOM

...from a nut. So, can anyone tell me how making fun of Trig is justified because they don't think Sarah is his mother?

[Jane]

I can't believe that none of you attended the face book party with bambi. Henry is doing all the heavy lifting.

[Chubby]

I bet a lot of people who avoided Wonkette would have boycotted Huggies if they'd known it was advertising there.

[centralcal]

Actually, wonkette posters are now trying to drum up a boycott of Papa John's

Deranged lefties. Evil and deranged.

[daddy]

Henry,

Be on the alert now for pollsters calling you and your friends to see if they can determine how you voted, so that they can then get your ballots challenged.

I always go back to Dennis Miller on this. He said he knew that Al Franken was going to win the Election if Norm Coleman did not get off his butt and aggressively fight back, because Dennis knew how driven Franken was to do whatever it took to win. Coleman played nice and relied on the system so hello Senator Franken.

I sure hope we have a mole working with Klopp's team so we can see what strategy they come up with this time.

[Sara (Pal2Pal)]

Bud Selig, renowned auto magnate, orders MLB seizure of LA Dodgers.

Hate to say it, but baseball son predicted something like this over a year ago and reiterated it when the fan was beaten into brain damage. He said fans would stay away from Dodger gangland in droves and this article confirms it leaving Dodger owner scrambling to make payroll. Of course, the ongoing divorce battle doesn't help either.

[henry]

Fair is fair Jane. You watched Obama, not me. : )

[clarice]

Of course the margin in the Franken fight was far smaller. And no one has a record of who voted which ballots in this one, daddy.

It's a total waste of time and money this time.

[Sue]

Is it not in democrat's DNA to lose gracefully?

[henry]

Daddy, I will pass that along. Thanks.

[daddy]

In the final telling I wonder which First Lady story of bravery is going to be more impressive;

1) Hillary's, where she ran across the Bosnian Tarmac dodging machine gun fire with Cheryl Crow, or

2) Michelle Obama's, where she bravely kept her calm and directed her military pilots to instantly turn away from that traffic at 3 miles, especially considering that the flight crew was flustered and incapable of determining what to do.

Tough call.

[Sara (Pal2Pal)]

I would like Sully and all these scum at Wonkette to explain how a woman who had not just given birth could breastfeed her child several times a day for almost a year? Or does everyone conveniently forget the grumbles from some about scheduling around this activity.

[Sara (Pal2Pal)]

Daddy: I don't get this whole story. What was the emergency? I've been on flights that have had to circle endlessly and even divert many miles to make room for all the traffic, especially coming into NYC or LA. Also Atlanta, I think. Seems everyone did their job, went where they were told to go, and landed without incident. Why is this such a big deal, other than the press wetting its collective pants?

[Ignatz]

Jeebus, that Klodhopper broad is as thick as a brick.
I was about to ask how such an unmitigated dummkopf could rise to the level of WI Assistant AG, but then a vision of a half sentient Eric Holder floated before my eyes. Never mind.

[narciso]

Recall that the 'super geniuses' at the Journolists were flummoxed by that fundamental
reality, Sara, I recall that Fallows was celebrating this type of work, that Denton
does, in a recent Atlantic issue,

[daddy]

Well its about time.

Finally Hollywood gets off it's keister and advises us how to deal with our energy problems. Ted Danson: 'We Shouldn't Just Close Some Coasts to Oil Drilling - We Should Close Them All'

It's wonderful to recall that he was the star witness up here last year advising the Obama Administration to not drill in Alaska.

After we take Ted's advice, all we'll have to do is follow France's lead on alternative energy sources, and then all of our energy woes in future should be solved: "...we’ve finally discovered how to make a dog sh*t in a specific spot, disinfect the deposit and convert it into environmentally friendly energy..."

[Thomas Collins]

Daddy, thanks for the Red Sox update. The 5-11 Red Sox are now a full two games ahead of the pace set by Casey Stengel's Amazin' 40-120-1 New York Mets of 1962 (the 1962 Mets were 3-13 after 16 games). I'm looking forward to a fun season as the Red Sox leave the '62 Mets in the dust and move inexorably toward the .450 winning percentage mark, which I am confident they'll reach before season's end.

[henry]

Ignatz, not even Doyle (twice) or Obama appointed her to an open Judge slot. She's even too stupid for them!

The TV news people checked the records-- no statewide recount in WI since 1910 (the limit of online records), if ever in WI.

Walker said he doesn't know how long the recount will take but taxpayers will not like the cost.

[Jim Rhoads a/k/a vnjagvet]

Narciso, she is going to court tomorrow to force a hand recount of all ballots. 5 million ballots counted by hand -- with full team Franken interference.

Is she going to court for a hand recount in addition to the recount she is entitled to under WI law, Henry?

[daddy]

Sara,

In my uninformed opinion it's a total pantload, but it makes good headlines.I have not read a single story on the matter.

Generally we are looking for something like 5 miles of separation between aircraft on landing, but I know none of the specifics so its rife for speculation by a Press that knows even less about it than I do.

Ajent J or Moody Blu, you guys have any insight on this? I'm thinking it was probably some event at Andrews AFB.

Kayyyyyyyroooooooooooo

Ellllllllllllllliotttttttttttttttttt

Just came home to find Momma got us a brand new yellow labrador puppy. Crimony!---but she's cute as the dickens.

[Melinda Romanoff]

daddy-

Add spoons, toothbrushes, some cleanser, and you're talking a sure fire jobs program.

[Extraneus]

Well it's not like the Republicans don't need the recount practice.

[henry]

Jim R, yes. Kloppster is asking for a full hand recount so "everybody can feel confident in the election.". This will go to a Dane county judge tomorrow.

[maryrose]

Sue:
No a Democrat cannot lose gracefully.
Case in point:
Al Gore in 2000.Trying to game the system by choosing largely dem precincts and counties and he actually had us talking about "dimpled chads" for Goodness sake!It really is a form of derangement and In the case of kloppy-why not more madness and mayhem? Remember Alinsky's rules demands this kind of insane behavior.

[Melinda Romanoff]

aka "rubber stamp".

And it's freeeeee!