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April 07, 2011

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Jane (sit on the couch or save your country)

Yesterday Mr. Left was touting what a great decision it was to put NATO out front so no one would blame America for the failure in Libya.

I almost choked.

Ranger

We went to war with no plan to force a victory, and here we are.

Basically, a repeat of the Yugoslav crisis. Funny, but we let Europe lead on that one too.

BTW, I am sure we will soon hear from someone high up in the administration that "You go to Kinetic Military Action with the Rebels you have, not the Rebels you wish you had."

Jane (sit on the couch or save your country)

LOL Ranger

Appalled

I'm not sure we went to war with a plan to avoid defeat.

Cecil Turner

We went to war with no plan to force a victory, and here we are.

We won't even support offensive action, and the rebels are far weaker than government forces, which means the best possible outcome is a stalemate. Unless somebody decides it's hopeless and gives up. Which appears to me to be far more likely for our "allies" than for Khadafy.

Ranger

I'm not sure we went to war with a plan to avoid defeat.

Posted by: Appalled | April 07, 2011 at 10:47 AM

That is why they chose to engage in Kinetic Military Action rather than war.

Kinetic Military Action is a clean, precise, magic silver bullet that solves problems in weeks, not months. It is also like a swith that you can flip on and off at your chosing, so if you can't make up your mind, or change your mind later, it is no big deal.

War is an activity dominated by friction, risk, and uncertainty, where fortunes can change rapidly. In war, battles are won or lost in a quarter of an hour, thus requiring decisive leadershp and constant attention. And, wars, once started can often be quite hard to end.

You can see why this administration prefers Kinetic Military Action to War, can't you?

clarice

KMA it is with Obama, ranger. Very funny this morning.

Rick Ballard

I believe that Barry's Kinetic Humanitarian Aid Program ended Friday or Saturday. It was a complete success - millions of Libyan lives were saved or created in less than two weeks at a very reasonable cost. The President did what he said he would do and the present situation is wholly NATO's responsibility, just as the the rise of the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt has nothing to do with the President forcing Mubarak from power.

It may appear that the clueless buffoon in the Oval Office needs to be locked in a closet as a world safety measure but that's just due to an over fastidious focus on the actual consequences of actions taken with good intention.

Focus only on the good intention aspect and all you see are unicorns flying over rainbows.

bio mom

Posted below and off topic but this is well worth reading. From NRO today.

Madison Versus the Rest of Wisconsin

When asked to comment about conservative Wisconsin Supreme Court justice David Prosser’s apparent razor-thin electoral loss on Tuesday, Gov. Scott Walker laid the blame directly at the feet of the state’s tempestuous little brother, the City of Madison. “You’ve got a world driven by Madison, and a world driven by everybody else out across the majority of the rest of the state of Wisconsin,” said Walker on Wednesday at a capitol press conference.

In a race decided by 204 votes (out of nearly 1.5 million cast), Prosser lost Madison’s home, Dane County, by a margin of 73 percent to 27 percent. Dane County is the second-largest county in the state, with a population of 491,357. Prosser’s challenger, Joanne Kloppenburg, received 133,513 votes in the county, almost 90 percent what Democratic gubernatorial candidate Tom Barrett received last November. This kind of turnout for a spring primary is unprecedented in the state’s history.

It comes as no surprise that Dane County has by far the largest number of government employees in the state (79,343), outpacing Milwaukee County by 13,000 despite Milwaukee County’s having twice the population; 20.3 percent of Dane County’s workers are government employees, the fourth-highest percentage in the state (most of the counties ahead of Dane are low-population areas that house state universities). The statewide average for government workers as a percentage of total workforce is 11.8 percent. (See a full list of all counties here.)

As a byproduct of being home to so many government employees, Dane County has the state’s highest percentage of residents over the age of 25 with at least a bachelor’s degree (40.6 percent). Consequently, the county has the third-highest per capita personal income in the state at $43,617 (trailing only Ozaukee and Waukesha counties).

Madison’s caste of government employees recognized that in order to keep their generous pay and benefits coming, they had to turn out en masse to oppose Prosser, who they viewed as a stand-in for Walker. This self-interested intensity distorted Madison’s statewide influence — while Dane County is home to only 8.7 percent of the state’s population, the county’s voters made up 12.7 percent of the electorate in the Supreme Court race.

Consequently, Prosser lost Dane County by 85,000 votes. Some heavy-turnout wards of the City of Madison went to Kloppenburg by obscene 97 percent to 3 percent margins.

Democrats are trying to spin Kloppenburg’s tentative .013 percent win (recounts forthcoming) as a statewide rebuke of Governor Walker’s attempt to rein in public-sector-union bargaining power. Democratic state chair Mike Tate told Wispolitics.com the results showed Wisconsin had swung back to his side and “voters were rejecting Walker’s policies.”

Yet without the electoral bloodbath in Dane County, Prosser would have won Wisconsin by a comfortable 53.3 percent to 46.7 percent margin. The non-Dane County Prosser vote actually exceeds the 52.3 percent Walker received statewide in November. It wasn’t the state’s voters rejecting Walker’s agenda — it was Dane County’s government workers attempting to keep their paychecks intact.

In 1960, Democratic presidential candidate (and Missouri senator) Stuart Symington warned of the growth of public-sector-worker “rights.” “This government,” Symington said, “you’ve got to grab it! You run the government, or they run you, and there’s no middle ground.”

Right now, government employees in Madison run Wisconsin. It’s up to Scott Walker and legislative Republicans to wrest control back.

— Christian Schneider is a senior fellow at the Wisconsin Policy Research Institute.




daddy

"Yesterday Mr. Left was touting what a great decision it was to put NATO out front so no one would blame America for the failure in Libya.

I almost choked."

Jane,

I thought you hadn't left for France yet. Are you already over there?

Danube of Thought

The descriptions of the rebels' battlefield behavior remind me a great deal of the Plains Indians (pre-Little Big Horn). They would stand off at a distance from the US troops, and every so often on impulse a warrior would charge ferociously at the troops, on his own, as his fellow warriors watched.

Not exactly a by-the-book technique of fire and maneuver.

hit and run

Kinetic Military Action was overtaken by Kinetic Poll Action.

daddy

For History buff's, The Battle of Zama showed that a war actually could be won in Libya by non-African forces. In 202 BC Roman General Scipio (later named Scipio Africanus for this victory) defeated Hannibal.

Apparently Libya today ain't Obama's Zama.

Porchlight

Focus only on the good intention aspect and all you see are unicorns flying over rainbows.

Rick,

I don't even give him credit for good intentions.

Rob Crawford

Apparently Libya today ain't Obama's Zama.

It's his Heraclea.

Ignatz

Libya ain't Carthage and Daffy ain't Hannibal.
But an argument could be made that the US is Rome circa 450AD and Barry is Romulus Augustus

Hell of way to run a world.  Who's in charge here?  Front and Center.

Who's surprised? This was feckless, myopic, spastically applied UN R2P, this time administered by hapless front agents.
====================

Ignatz

Or maybe Barry is Odoacer?

matt

There are no tactics. They rush into a town and as soon as the Qadaffites shell them, they break and run like hell for 20 miles back across the desert.

This is the same turf that Rommel and Montgomery fought over 70 years ago. Huge, featureless tracts of desert. Back then it was armies and wadis and small villages. Now it's small towns in the middle of nowhere.

The help from NATO, according to the reports from Libya, seems to be affirmative action for both the pro and anti Qadaffi forces.

Actually, it seems more and more to be bombing practice for the French, RAF, and whoever else is involved in this ragtag affair. Bomb some Toyota dual cabs containing Qadaffites, bomb a few more containing rebels.

Has anyone determined whether this passes the litmus test of a Contingency Operation yet? Or has it reverted to targeted punitive strikes on (insert name here)?

daddy

Ignatz,

A college friend majoring in Classic's used to pronounce Odoacer, "Oh-Doe-Whack-er." Don't know if that's correct but I always thought that was a great Barbarian name, effectively capturing the lethality of the Barbarian King who ousted the last feckless Roman Emperor.

And the rest of the Hood.

Naw, it was his posse.
========

Rob Crawford

But an argument could be made that the US is Rome circa 450AD and Barry is Romulus Augustus

That was only an issue for the western half.

The easterners had another 1000 years of Rome. Not all of them good, but, well, I'd take Justinian and Theodora (minus the plagues) over Obama and Michelle.

Ranger

Well, this doesn't look good for anybody (except the Libyan Air Force of course)(via Hot Air Headlines):

Gadhafi plane evades NATO no-fly zone, bombs rebel tanks


AJDABIYA, Libya — Libyan leader Moammar Gadhafi's air force evaded the U.N.-ordered NATO-enforced no-fly zone on Thursday and destroyed three rebel tanks parked along a key highway here, triggering a rebel retreat that seemed to pave the way for a full pro-Gadhafi assault on the city of Ajdabiya.

Rebels at first had blamed NATO for the airstrike, which witnesses said killed between two and six rebel fighters. But Eman Boughaigis, a spokesman for the rebel National Libyan Council in Benghazi, said the attack had actually been launched by a Gadhafi loyalist aircraft.

Read more: http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2011/04/07/111660/nato-jet-bombs-rebel-tanks-in.html#ixzz1Ir27mlyP

Danube of Thought

In 202 BC Roman General Scipio (later named Scipio Africanus for this victory) defeated Hannibal

And in honor of that victory, a very handsome bust of Scipio now reposes behind the bar in the felicitously named First Shot Bar in the Mills House in Charleston, SC. You go, Scipio.

DebinNC

We lost our power for several days, so I apologize if y'all have discussed the Ivory Coast ex-prez holed up and under attack by UN and French forces and who Hillary ordered to step-down...but who Sen. Inhofe claims actually won the election, but the French stole it for the other guy. France rescued the Japanese diplomats but Israel's similar request is still unanswered.

Ignatz

--The easterners had another 1000 years of Rome.--

Perhaps, but I'm figuring the assorted characters actually sitting in Rome figured they "had" it.

Ignatz

Thanks fore that link Deb. I had heard none of that until now.
I guess I should have known Barry and Muffer probably had it bass-ackwards.

OldTimer

Interesting how Democrat women are pie-in-the-sky warmongers walking effortlessly over the inert bodies of their girly-men party leaders to achieve their erratic and unrealistic R2P goals. If abusing our military to even the score in distant lands gives them the 'satisfaction' they crave but seldom received from the men in their lives, they'll successfully continue neutering little Barry without a whimper of protest. His feminine/submissive side always takes precedence over anything that is substantially victorious--a guaranteed lose-lose for America

Meanwhile, Republican women have taken on true masculine characteristics of bravery and courage on the battlefield (i.e., Palin, Bachmann, Ann Barnhardt--balls of steel, etc.). They'll either shake awake or shame the dormant genes of Republican leadership into battle-ready manhood, or make use of Reagan's 'peace through strength' and 'trust but verify' doctrine and carry it to national victory. An American win-win, especially if conservative male leadership gets over itself and kicks into high-gear.

Danube of Thought

He doesn't like dumb wars?

Rebels in eastern Libya say their forces have been mistakenly hit in a Nato air raid. Doctors in Ajdabiya told the BBC at least 13 rebel fighters had been killed by the strike on a rebel tank position. The BBC's Wyre Davies reports chaotic scenes on the outskirts of Ajdabiya, with rebel forces in retreat reporting being hit by Nato air strikes. It is the third such incident in recent days involving international forces deployed to protect Libyan civilians.
PDinDetroit

Just send the Libyan Rebels to Knob Creek Gun Range - they will set them up just fine.

LUN.

Danube of Thought

Der Spiegel surveys the insanity:


The front in Libya is barely moving as the country remains split between rebels and Gadhafi's troops. The rebels are complaining of not receiving enough air support, but NATO is hardly in a position to ramp it up after the withdrawal of US fighter jets. The resulting stalemate underscores the lack of a clear strategy for the allies in Libya. American warplanes had hardly left the skies over Libya when the remonstrations began. "NATO has let us down," said rebel military chief Abdul Fattah Younis.

Jim Rhoads a/k/a vjnjagvet

Clausewitz, Guderian and Rommel could not be reached for comment, DOT.

DebinNC

Rebels weren't hit by a NATO plane, but by a Ghadaffi plane that fooled whomever in NATO is responsible for keeping loyalist planes out of the no-fly zone. Wasn't air traffic surveillance one the "capabilities" Obama said were still ours as he sent our jets away?

TvTRIS

Did they buy into the social media thing for oil?

fdcol63

The global policemen (US) have turned the Libyan effort over to the Keystone Kops (EU).

Rob Crawford

Ya know, the lefties like to deride the "resistance to tyranny" argument for 2nd Amendment rights, but their favorite "rebels" in Libya have kinda proven the argument, no? Even the NYT admits the "rebels" have never used a firearm and are thus extremely bad at it.

Americans wouldn't be showing up to battles with no ammunition, for one thing.

Thomas Collins

Der Spiegel is wrong. Barack SunTzu Obama has a clear strategy.

1. Fiddle and diddle when there was a solid chance to topple el-Qadhafi.

2. Provide air support for humanitarian reasons only, but say el-Qadhafi must go, indicating that toppling him is a key goal of the operation.

3. Use US power in a manner seemingly designed to prolong a standoff between el-Qadhafi's troops and the rebels (substantial US led air power to stop el-Qadhafi's troops' advance, then withdrawal of most US support and handing the air war over to NATO).

4. Be totally clueless on whether the rebels' taking power would be in the interests of the US.

5. Mention a few more times that el-Qadhafi must go, but deny that is a key goal of US policy.

6. Take the views of the UN and NATO more seriously than the views of Congress and the citizens of the US.

7. Golf, visit Brazil, and campaign to give credence to the war effort.

8. Make clear that the war effort is a kinetic military action (thus putting fear in the NoKos and Iranians that the US might participate in, after the requisite fiddling and diddling, a similarly ferocious kinetic military action against them).

9. Stand by while the Muslim Brotherhood gears up to rock and roll in Egypt.

10. Show to the world how tough he is by standing up to the GOP's attempt to prevent the finances of the US from careening even more out of control than they are now.

How anyone can say Obama is not focused, clear and consistent in his Middle East policy in general, and Libyan policy in particular, is beyond me.

Danube of Thought

Beautiful, TC.

hit and run

Hey TC - By my back of the envelope calculations,the Sox are on pace to be mathematically eliminated from the playoffs in approximately 6 weeks.

clarice

" American warplanes had hardly left the skies over Libya when the remonstrations began. "NATO has let us down," said rebel military chief Abdul Fattah Younis."

Thus giving us a new--fifth question for the passover seder--why should anyone around the world expect to get more good out of Obama than his own people do?

Extraneus

To be fair, he was focusing on the shutdown strategy when the Libya thing went down. You can't expect him to let that languish over some stupid foreign policy b.s.

DebinNC

Ex, you're on to something. Knowing he intended to stop military pay soon may explain his "days" pledge. He feared the reaction if our forces were risking their lives in Libya while he was intentionally defunding them.

Neo

This war is like Democrats on a cost cutting spree .. there is no there there.

PaulL

I believe it was Stanley Kurtz who indicated that central to the Power (no "s" on the end) plan was bolstering the UN and diminishing the US as to who decides to engage the US military. That part went off swimmingly--although a win would have been nice, it wasn't essential since Ibama can blame NATO.

Jack is Back!

PDinDetroit,

Had a friend do Knob Creek once and he came back with burns all over his arms. Forget to turn down the sleeves:)

Lets add them up:

Nobel Peace Prize based on nothing, nada, nil accomplishments in world affairs, mediation or even marching on May Day.

The Chicago bid for the Olympics

Salving the wounds on the Arab Street in Cairo - how is that working out?

Stimulus of over $1 billion when you add up the interest - how is that working out?

Didn't he also promised to quit smoking?

Stupid police actions in Cambridge.

The Bowing continium.

Gitmo - still there and going nowhere.

Civilian trials?

The Afghanistan "good war" surge and outcome (which conveniently he can blame on Terry Jones much like Shabazz blaming Congress for having to use tribunals.)

AWOL (Absent without Leadership) on the budget, the deficit, the debt, etc.

[Can I quit now?]

The Audacity of Kinetic Military Action in Libya

Thomas Collins

H&R, I think the Red Sox are under the impression that the Exhibition Season is still going on, so that the games don't count. My son told me that no team that has lost four games in a row at the beginning of a season has ever won a World Series, and only one team with an 0-4 start has even made it to the WS. I haven't checked on the accuracy of his assertion, but at 0-5 I can smell the crow being cooked in NYC for eating by Red Sox fans.

PaulL

Jack,

As others have mentioned, the bowing continuum was meant to take away attention from the only real heartfelt bow, to the king of Saudi Arabia. The other bows were made so that Ibama could say, oh, well, I bow to everyone out of politeness.

And unfortunately, TRillion instead of Billion!

narciso

I think Butler was under the same impression,
I know different sport, but same strategery.

PaulL

Wisconsin recount has Prosser in the lead again. Just for a moment, no doubt.

LUN

Rob Crawford

OK, will someone with some sense clue me in: is it true that the "shutdown" meaning no pay for soldiers is entirely Obama's decision?

Is it true he's declared the military "non-essential"?

Thomas Collins

I know one individual in the chain of military command who is nonessential and shouldn't take any pay during a shutdown: the current Commander in Chief.

Richard Aubrey

I see reports of a loyalist fighter plinking three rebel tanks.
I guess that means the US isn't doing the no-fly.
I recall, forty-plus years ago, worrying about the Sovs coming across the Inter German Border and whether my NATO brothers-in-arms would be useful.

Frau Steingehirn

"Didn't he also promised to quit smoking?"

I think Michelle said Barry was now smoking celery instead of cigarettes.

Rob Crawford

I think Michelle said Barry was now smoking celery instead of cigarettes.

Really? I heard he was smoking...

Naw. Won't go there. Family blog.

RichatUF

Rob-

I've heard different versions. That military retiree pay will be OK but soliders won't be paid. Also different versions of soliders won't be paid-that they'll get base pay but nothing else, etc. Not sure.

The Treasury has some latitude in how they "shut down" government and they'll do their best to make it as painful and inconvenient as possible. So, it wouldn't surprise me that soliders wouldn't get paid or it would be delayed while they are engaged in 2 wars and a half of a kinetic action.

Ranger

Is it true he's declared the military "non-essential"?


Posted by: Rob Crawford | April 07, 2011 at 05:22 PM

Well, the executive does have a significant amount of discretion if a funding bill has not been passed. I was on active duty in recruiting during the Clinton shut downs. At first we were told that we would not be affected by a shut down, because recruiting had operated normal during previous shut downs. Then, the Clinton administration classified recruiting as non-essential, so we were order to stop work when the shut down came if we were not in a government owned facility (95% of recruiting is done out of rented comercial property). Paychecks didn't stop though.

Neo

I guess this means that Libya is a "dumb war"

Neo

I find this so incredibly funny on so many levels ...

Trump: I Have Investigators in Hawaii...'They Cannot Believe What They're Finding'

They have not been able to determine which hospital Obama was born in. The relatives all have different stories. There are no documents at any of the hospitals .. no bills, no doctors notes, no birth certificates, no nothing.

I can imagine Trump telling Obama .. Your Fired

JM Hanes

"But this is not Obama's problem, since NATO is in charge now, right?"

Obama's exit strategy was already kicking in when the usual suspects framed Clinton, Power and Rice as the hawkish Amazonian cabal pushing military intervention! Our President, reluctant to put Americans at risk, but cognizant of his oh-so-American responsibility to protect the innocent, more prudently insisted on a modified limited hangout. He moved on to the U.N. and then played the NATO card, in consultation with our international partners, of course. He made the terms of U.S. engagement clear, and true to his word, "America has done what we said we would do." Et voila, his bases are covered at home and abroad, should results prove disappointing, while success will validate his multilateralist dogma. Obama doesn't do anything without a "plan."

I do find the putative menage a trois in this narrative a little hard to credit. The press has suddenly rediscovered Samantha Power, but Hillary (the monster!) has always been window dressing. Her recent, not-so-subtle public ruminations on retirement sure sound like she knows she's being hung out to dry. In contrast, Susan Rice has thoroughly embraced her superfluous existence by representing U.S. interests on the international cocktail circuit, in preference to the Security Council. She was just hauled in so that Obama could hover above the actual multilateral fray, as is his wont.

In any case, Obama's fallback position is entirely predictable: I have always said, clearly, that kinetic engagement, alone, would never be sufficient to the cause. As we continue to use all the tools at our disposal, America can be proud of what we have already accomplished in lives saved and messages sent. The road before us is long and I never said it would be easy. Don't falter now, Ohio! Elect me again, North Carolina! This is the moment to renew our commitment to a more perfect world. They will try to tell you we can't get there, because that's what they do. But guess what? I'm still standing, and we're still here, Florida, to tell them that, together, si!

matt

Richard, as one of the people at the tippy tip of that spear, we used to think on that regularly.Basically, no matter the outcome, we were dead meat.

The telegraphing of intention sin Libya is truly amazing. What was going to take minutes became weeks has become months and threatens next to become years.

This is what happens when you use a French aircraft carrier that carries 16 planes and somewhere around 6 RAF Tornadoes with a Fairey Battle thrown in and the Qatari Royal Flying Corps.

The target acquisition process goes from a SAS forward air controller to an Italian listening post to a Belgian command post to a French higher command for approval to drop a 250# bomb and then back down the line.

By the time approval is given, the target is 12 miles distant and covered with dust. Instead, an ice cream truck doubling as a resistance command post is targeted.

Everybody dies and the flight crew returns to base in Aviano to a nice dinner of veal parmigiana with a glass of a good Pinot Grigio and the after action report comes in translated from Croatian 3 days later.

jimmyk

Wisconsin recount has Prosser in the lead again.

It's not really a "recount", it's just some counties correcting errors on their own. But it looks big for Prosser--like he's now up by more than 7,000 votes. Waukesha came through after all.

clarice

JMHanes, that is so totally brilliant, I can hardly breathe.

JM Hanes

"One hopes that this does not come as news to Samantha Powers, Hillary Clinton, and whoever else promoted the allied effort."

I see no reason to think that Obama has changed his stripes, and this whole venture has reeked of domestically driven politics from the start. While he may find R2P appealing in the abstract, he'd begun taking serious flak for claiming to stand with people yearning to breathe free rhetorically, while lifting nary a helpful finger. Cynicism is not a word you want floating around your campaign, when you've decided to run on trust.

I think Obama really did believe this would be a pretty easy win, on multiple fronts. Contra Egypt, it looked like Libya had a nice uncomplicated cast of good guys and bad guys, our interests were arguably humanitarian, not self-serving, and Ghadafi had already caved once on WMD, even without France and the Brits leading a multinational charge. The fact that putting C.I.A. boots on the ground was cast as escalation, when they should have been there long, long ago, speaks volumes about how much we might have known starting out.

JM Hanes

hit:

"the Sox are on pace to be mathematically eliminated from the playoffs in approximately 6 weeks."

Just you wait another 80 years or so. We'll show you a thing or two.

clarice

He keeps using old playbooks, JMH.

This was Clinton's wag the dog and the budget intransigence is Clinton whipping Newt.

In both cases i think he's erred.

Sara (Pal2Pal)

RichatUF:

I posted this last night:

Via Navy Times:

The pay freeze that would come with an extended government shutdown would severely hurt military families and require the military to organize financial help for those who don’t have savings to cover bills, a nonpartisan arm of Congress is warning lawmakers.

A shutdown could come as early as midnight Friday. As a months-long dispute over federal spending continues, the White House’s Office of Management and Budget warned Wednesday morning that military members would be expected to report to work without pay. The military will be fully paid once government funding is restored, Obama administration officials said.

[...]

Military retired pay is not affected by a shutdown, according to the report for Congress, because retired pay and other retirement benefits are financed through trust funds that are independent of the annual appropriations process. The Defense Finance and Accounting Service would require some workers to administer the retirement benefits and would need some people to process regular payrolls at least through the early stage of a shutdown.

Rob Crawford

Wow. I was going to rant about the screenwriters for "Criminal Minds" doing a hash job on the process of buying a firearm, but on checking, they actually got the Florida laws right!

Between that and whoever gets the firearm handling right on "Bones", my contempt for Hollywood may weaken a bit.

Rob Crawford

Ah, there they go. "Castle doctrine means the gun laws are lax, at best".

JM Hanes

Clarice:

I don't think it's a given that Republicans will take the primary blame for a shutdown this time around either. Having announced he'll veto the CR if it makes it to his desk, Obama has got to be pulling out all the stops to make sure the Senate doesn't let it get there

I don't see how the Prez could possibly avoid a world of pain, if he vetoes a bill that will -- as he himself has claimed -- be devastating to our forces when he's just sent them to war. Especially when I gather the CR includes fully funding the DoD till the end of the budget year, regardless of whether or not Congress ends up having to pass weekly CRs for everything else in the meantime.

It would gratifying to think that Senate Democrats are pissed off enough at Obama's MIA fecklessness in the great budget debates to make him take the hit instead, but I'm not holding my breath. OTOH, it's pretty hard to believe they think they spin away their own demonstrable part in a shutdown. House vs Senate is not the same ball game Clinton was playing. Regardless of how it turns out, I think Boehner is far better at this than Newt ever was.

Hugh Dudgeon

Trump is on Kudlow. Straight line for whomever wants it.

RichatUF

Sara-

Thanks. Been a bit interneted out. Saw that ace had a write up as well. Pretty crappy all the way around. When I was in I had a pay problem, was deployed, and it took about 6 months and 2 ig complaints to straighten out. The only debt problem I had was with the f'ing IRS over $17 though. I kept on sending them a 1040X and a check, then they would then send me a check, then they would send me a bill with penalties and fees. Postage was well over $17 when it was all said and done. That bullshit went on for about a year.

RichatUF

And a note, wasn't trying to trivialize what would happen if the military doesn't get paid.

Jack is Back!

In 96 didn't the shutdown occur because Clinton vetoed the Republican bill?

He still has the MFM on his side and as been seen before they will deploy full deflector shields agains the Romulan Tea Party bird of prey as seen on on Beck, Hannity, Limbaugh and Levin.

I don't know how the response from the right should be but it cannot be passive but rather active and loud if he dares to veto a bill that funds the armed service. That did not even enter the equation IIRC in 96. In fact, the biggest thing on Clinton's side was the timing - right before Thanksgiving and the annual holiday season where people plan to travel and have passport applications that didn't get attended to etc. I don't think that is the problem it will be this time since the economy is not necessarily promoting a lot of foreign travel. Plus in 96 it was non-essential services anyway. LUN

daddy

* *
<
(-----" Carp!


* *
<
( - )
V Rats!!


(*) (*)
<
(:......:) Dagnabbit!!!
\=/

No matter how hard I try I just can't seem to capture that shit-eating grin I saw so often today in Flynn's Pub in Newark when it was announced the Boston Red Sox had just lost 6 in a row:)

Boatbuilder

The Libyan Rebels will be abandoned and wiped out. This will be done relatively soon, and we can all move on to the next news cycle. The long term damage to the Obama campaign will be limited--which is why it will be done soon. Our putative allies, and our enemies, will take note. The long term damage to our country, and to NATO, will be huge.
As with budget issues, the long term effect on the country means little or nothing to Obama and, apparently, the Democratic Party. The next election is all.

Jane

daddy,

That's just mean.

So how many in a row do you think we can lose?

RichatUF

JIB-

It didn't help that Gingrich was out looking for every camera taking credit for the government shutdown.

Jack is Back!

daddy,

Now going 0-6 isn't that bad this early in the season but it is really serious if the next team you play are the Yankees.

Another great Masters is underway. Young mister McElroy and Senor Quiros are at 7 under and Phil the Thrill is probably where he wants to be at -2 but he screwed up on 18. Tiger is at -1 and whenever he has won he has never shot in the 60's his first round. This is going to be very competitive, so get out your mashie, pop a tab on your favorite beer, sit back and enjoy!

Jane

I love love love the Masters, and I couldn't find it on my TV today.

What station JIB?

daddy

Don't know Jane,

The season is young. And you are correct I was being mean and I apologize.

Good news tho' is there's no Boston Baseball in Europe. It's all CNN International and footy and how wonderful Barack is, so as a Red Sox fan that may be a plus.

BTW, In Flynn's Pub today 1 guy said he had just come in from the Yankee game and that a cup of Hot Chocolate cost 10 dollars. Then a guy at a table with his wife said he had season tickets near where the first guy was sitting today (in the outfield) and that the package this year had gone up from $29,000.00 to just under $32,000.00. First guy replied that todays ticket, 5 rows back in the outfield, had cost him $110.

That amazed me. Haven't been to a game in years, but in the late 80's in Oakland it was decent seats down low at between 16 and 22 dollars.

Then the cook was a Met's fan (poor B#$%tard), and Barmaid Karen told me to order quick, when the Mets were only losing 6 zip, before he became unhinged and it started making him cook angry. Good advice. The burger was excellent, and by the time the Mets lost 11 to nothing, he was in the back hollering in I think Puerto Rican.

Jack is Back!

Jane,

ESPN brings Thursday and Friday at 3pm EST. CBS brings it on Saturday and Sunday starting at 2pm. If you have Golf Channel you can get a Masters multi-screen layout at channel 707 or 206 for ESPN and whatever your local channel is for CBS.

Course is in great condition but it will get firmer as it goes along.

Gmax

Know what the best is about the canvassing of the vote in Wisconsin is? The lefties after the sugar high, will have a crashing low now. And despite the recount having virtually no chance of success, the Unions will have to fund the fight.

They have gone all in and so far they have no pair and no face cards. But having gone all in, they can not afford to back down now. So they will piss away some more funds on a recount that is doomed.

And after looking at the vote results, the following Senators are in trouble. Wirtz, Hansen, Halperin and Kapanke. 3 Ds and one R. Whoops, that means, no control of the Supreme Court, and they very well may lose the ability to use the quorem rule in the Senate.

So what might get passed once that happens? Right to work in Progressive Wisconsin.

The whole midwest ( Illinois excepted ) is in play for 2012. And unions may be finished as a force for Democrats.

These Democrats dont play poker real well now do they?

Janet

I think Michelle said Barry was now smoking celery instead of cigarettes.

loser.

OT in Dreams From My Father...did you guys know that Hanuman the monkey god makes an appearance?!!!! That's why he carries that charm in his pocket.
"He's a great warrior," Lolo said firmly. "Strong as a hundred men. When he fights the demons, he's never defeated."

Rob Crawford

So what might get passed once that happens? Right to work in Progressive Wisconsin.

Concealed carry and castle doctrine first. Make the union thugs think twice before showing up at people's houses to "protest".

narciso

So for histories sake, will the rebel alliance, fall on the 50th anniversary of
when they were foolish enough, to take a Democrat seriously, A relative of mine did,
and he spent a year in the regime's prisons,
schoolmates of mine, as I later found out,
had some of the most interesting parents,
sidelights from flying in the Congo, to a small role in the conspiracy theories of the
era.

Gmax

You know if a billionaire wants access to private medical records of the State, I am pretty sure that hook or crook, he will be able to get access.

Jane

Daddy,

Are you in NY or Paris? And will you meet us in Paris on May 8th? Pretty please.

sbw

Jane, I scored extra points this morning by setting the iPhone to wake us up by playing the Master's theme. She says she'd like to wake up the same way tomorrow.

Captain Hate

Hey daddy, have you enjoyed NC State's abortion of a coaching replacement for Lowe? The good news for them is that they got somebody better than Sid. The bad news is they whiffed on all the blue chippers they said they were going to get (which Chairman Yow made a big deal about) before landing somebody who left Alabama (where he kind of underachieved) after getting caught banging a med student. Then the Chairman during the presser to introduce the new coach torpedoed him by blaming Gary Williams for "sabotaging" the selection process which, in addition to being a lie, makes it clear in his introduction that he wasn't who she was going after. There's been much hilarity at a Terp bbs as Hole fans have been joining in.

Duke fans haven't joined in because they're still coming to grips with Irving leaving school, which I think is ill-advised. Mark or somebody should put a hit on whatever numbnuts wrote an "open letter" to him in the student newspaper which was about as condescending and ill-conceived as possible. Evidently the journo school employs NYT type of "editing" as far as keeping ill-advised copy away. Or maybe Brodhead did it himself in view of all the howlers he's been making recently.

Jack is Back!

When Mel checks in I'd like some expert comments on the LUN.

Not what I would like to see but these people have been right for the past 2 years. LUN

Jane

I think I'm jealous SBW.

Gmax

This fight by the unions was as stupid as General Lee sending Pickett over 3/4 mile of open ground into a crossfire. It was extremely high risk with a high possibility of failure. And the Republicans who have been smeared and intimidated are going to return the favor.

Am I the only one who sees this as a huge foreshadowing of 2012. The midwest will be the battleground, and now the Republicans are defending the high ground. Democrats could be banished to Alba for a generation or more.

Chant with me. This is what : Democracy looks like!

doufeelikeido

Homos feeling all kentically and their not now.You woke up to Woods?No sign from the i phone,bet its reality tv soon.British special boat people aim cruise missiles with alec balwins motorola Atrix:.....

Jack is Back!

I wonder how this election result will influence the political decision to abandon common sense and decide to shut down the government instead of accepting the fact that we have run out of money?

daddy

Sorry Jane,

Am in either Taiwan or China on the 8th. Bummer:(

But JimmyK, who BTW is way better looking than Charlie Manson, might be available in NY City around that time, and we had a very fun time.

Captain, I am clueless on NC State's latest coaching change but you are to be commended for having whet my appetite for ACC schadenfreud.

MarkO

daddy, you think you're feeling blue. Kyrie declared for the NBA.

daddy

Sorry Marko,

Interesting times in the ACC, no?

Being so far removed, I actually learn more about what the heck is going on down there from you and from Captain Hate than from anyone else. And truth be told it's more enjoyable getting it from you two guys than from anybody else.

Go to Hell Big East!

Captain Hate

daddy, if you're interested LUN for part one of a thread that began 24 days ago regarding the hilarity. If you run across any posts by terp_in_ohio that's me.

Jane

Daddy,

Sneak out, Get on the plane and fly over for lunch. I promise no one will notice.

Jack is Back!

Talking NC, Cam Newton will be a dud for the Panthers. Do not, repeat, do not take him. Take the kid from Missouri. You cannot do what Michael Vick does on a consistent basis in the NFL. You need to throw a clothesline 40 yards to the sidelines and Cam cannot do that. You need to be able to pick out the safety creeping up for a blitz while the DE peddles back to control the TE and Cam cannot do that. He can run like hell but so can every LB in the NFL. Do not to th sucked in to how good he looked in college. The difference is that he faced maybe 2 or 3 guys on every team who will make it to a starting line up in the NFL while in college but now in the NFL he is facing 11 guys who ARE in the NFL. Do not take Cam, let some one else have him.

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Wilson/Plame