To The Shores Of Benghazi

The NY Times reports on a plot twist that will surprise Samantha Powers, Hillary Clinton and no one else - Qadaffi's troops are experienced, savvy, and not interested in being targets of allied aircraft:

BREGA, Libya — A NATO airstrike intended for the forces of Col. Muammar el-Qaddafi apparently killed at least eight rebel fighters in the battle outside this pivotal oil port, an ambulance driver and news reports said Saturday.

The deaths underscored the challenge that the Western allies and the rebels face in relying on airstrikes to push back the Qaddafi forces as the two sides mix in the battle zone along the front.

Perhaps in response to the Western airstrikes, the Qaddafi forces are increasingly plunging into combat in equipment similar to what the rebels are using, mainly pickup trucks mounted with machine guns or artillery. The move makes it increasingly difficult for even the combatants to distinguish one group from the other at first sight.

Hmm.  From what has been reported about the poorly trained and led Libyan rebels, Qaddafi's troops would have to be prohibitive favorites in close engagements.  But surely we can bomb their tanks and heavy equipment, yes?  No:

The battle lines remained largely unchanged, centered to the east of Brega, as the fighting continued Saturday. A few rebels had established a light presence in the city, near the university, but the Qaddafi forces remained in solid control. Although airstrikes have taken out some of the Qaddafi forces’ tanks and heavy weapons, the militia had evidently held back some of its military equipment in the relatively dense urban area, where the NATO forces cannot strike without the risk of civilian casualties.

No kidding.

The WaPo reports that non-success is an option:

Stalemate in Libya increasingly viewed as a likely outcome

By Joby Warrick and Liz Sly, Friday, April , 9:07 PM

U.S. officials are becoming increasingly resigned to the possibility of a protracted stalemate in Libya, with rebels retaining control of the eastern half of the divided country but lacking the muscle to drive Moammar Gaddafi from power.

Such a deadlock — perhaps backed by a formal cease-fire agreement — could help ensure the safety of Libyan civilians caught in the crossfire between the warring sides. But it could also dramatically expand the financial and military commitments by the United States and allied countries that have intervened in the six-week-old conflict, according to U.S. officials familiar with planning for the Libyan operation.

Taking us where?

U.S. analysts have concluded that Gaddafi will likely not step aside voluntarily, despite recent defections by top aides. Nor is he likely to be driven anytime soon from his Tripoli base, where he has surrounded himself with highly paid fighters and tribal kinsmen who remain fiercely loyal, the officials said.

One likened the current conflict to an evenly matched football game, with two sides skirmishing over a few yards in midfield.

“Neither side seems capable of moving the ball down the field,” said the U.S. official. “It is also true that neither side has endless resources.”

A stalemate could mean an open-ended mission for the coalition of NATO and Arab countries now enforcing the no-fly zone over Libya, increasing both the financial and political costs for the participants. But analysts are increasingly confident that Gaddafi can be largely contained within a divided Libya, unable to significantly threaten his neighbors and gradually weakening over time.

One wonders - will Qaddafi become a more energetic sponsor of international terror from his reduced enclave?  His reasons for doing so should be obvious.  Then again, the benefit of restraint would be that the quicker he drops off Obama's radar the quicker NATO will turn its attention elsewhere.

It might have been better if Obama had not declared that ousting Qaddafi was US policy.

FIRE DISCIPLINE:  From the WaPo:

The strike, which killed 13 rebels and injured seven, illustrated the hazards of conducting an aerial bombing campaign against a fluid and fast moving front line. Several cars and an ambulance were also incinerated, and opposition leaders said rebels may have been responsible for the bombing because they had fired their guns into the air in celebration.

Foreign trainers would have plenty of material to cover.  "Don't shoot at your air support" would be one good rule to emphasize.  A bit later, we see this:

But Iman Bugaighis, an opposition spokeswoman, said a publicity campaign was underway in mosques and on the radio to try to stop rebels from firing their weapons arbitrarily into the sky, a common practice.

Safety concerns aside, she said, “these ammunitions are very valuable because we have to use them on the front lines. We are trying to get the message out.”

 

Comments

[Pops]

I am really starting to think the entire reparations for slavery idea has merit. I've been watching tose genealogy shows and such and have come across some people whom owe blacks reparations.

For instance:

Because his great, great grandfather owned and operated a slave plantation reparations are due from LIONEL RICHEY.

Because his great, great, great grandfather worked for a Southern gun manufacturer during the civil war, reparations are due from SPIKE LEE.

Because his great, great, great Grandfather owned slaves, reparations are due from BARACK OBAMA.

[Pops]

I would speculate that due to Obamas fathers connections back to Kenya, the fact he never emmigrated, etc. The fact he planned to return to Kenya, I would think he would have insisted his son be a Kenyan citizen and I suspect that's what they are hiding on the birth certificate.

[hit and run]

Sara's link:
Ivory Coast: aid workers find 1,000 bodies in Duekoue

"Some nations may be able to turn a blind eye to atrocities in other countries. The United States of America is different. And as President, I refused to wait for the images of slaughter and mass graves before taking action."
--stuff Obama said

[hit and run]

Steyn:

Say what you like about Barack Obama, but it’s rare to find a leader so impeccably multilateralist he’s willing to participate in both sides of a war. It doesn’t exactly do much for holding it under budget, but it does ensure that for once we’ve got a sporting chance of coming out on the winning side

[Threadkiller]

--"I would think he would have insisted his son be a Kenyan citizen and I suspect that's what they are hiding on the birth certificate."--

He is not hiding the Kenyan citizenship. He admitted it on his own website during the campaign:

“When Barack Obama Jr. was born on Aug. 4,1961, in Honolulu, Kenya was a British colony, still part of the United Kingdom’s dwindling empire. As a Kenyan native, Barack Obama Sr. was a British subject whose citizenship status was governed by The British Nationality Act of 1948. That same act governed the status of Obama Sr.‘s children.

"That same act governed the status of Obama Sr.‘s children"

When somebody is found murdered and another person says he committed the murder and there is zero evidence to the contrary, the guy goes to jail for murder.

Frank Marshal Davis "might" have done this and his mom "may" have done that and the court won't give them the time of day because there are no supporting facts.

What matters is he says he did it and that is a fact. If he is lying about murder and hiding evidence that exonerates him, the court won't let him go free because of a hunch.

You have two tangible facts to work with:

1) Obama said he was born with British allegiance. That self admission does not just go away because of a theory of a hidden document.

2)Congressional record of debates concerning citizenship gave us the definition of natural born citizen; Born here to Citizen parents. This was never contested during the debates, it never went to the Supreme Court to find it was in error, and no other congressional statement can be produced to give natural born citizen a different meaning.

He pled guilty; quit looking for another suspect.

[Cecil Turner]

Well, this must be the worst-kept secret in modern military history: Libyan rebels 'receive foreign training'. However, reading a little more closely, it appears the training is something out of a kid's video game:

"He said these were state-of-the-art, heat-seeking rockets and that they needed to be trained on how to use them, which was one of the things the American and Egyptian special forces were there to do."

Not sure if the credulous one was the reporter or his contact, but it's instructive in any event.

[clarice]

hit, that Steyn bit is marvelous.
Pops , there's a difference between "speculation" and puling stuff out of the air and your stuff is the latter.
Good catch, Cecil. Play Station "Libia" I guess.

[Hate speech hurts the hide and seek.]

Frosting on the cake, TK, if in addition he's born elsewhere, he's used Indonesian passports, or if there is myth busting info on the birth certificate.

You see, we marginalized as nuts by the Alinsky tactics of isolation, have long and bitter memories.
==================

[Eat quick, before the carcass stinks worse than it does now. By the way, I've figured out why cats get anxious when they see the bottom of their food bowl.]

You have a very valid and perfectly legal point, TK; the founders would not recognize him as 'natural born'.

But we are not the founders. We are a weak, easily manipulated, herd of feeble minds. We need a little more meat than righteousness.
===============

[GS Patton]

While you wank away at your laptops over the Libyan distraction, GE led "sharia compliant" financing empowers muslim corporations to load up on mortgages to sell to muslim immigrants in depressed areas like California's Central Valley and the Gulf Coast. Soetoro's policies are selling off American assets to the jihadists. The plan was laid out by the Muslim Brotherhood back in 1991. Yes, Myrtle, they had a plan way back then...and little Barry is a part of it. Wasn't it in 1993 that he was traveling to Pakistan on a visa which the US public has never seen?

Wake up.

[Jane]

Clarice,

Your snark runneth over. Feb Pieces.

[I said three years ago that this was important. I said two years ago it wasn't going away. I said one year ago the issue will depend on his ongoing credibility. Well, here we are.]

I happen to believe that he was born in Hawaii, but that something in his past, perhaps pointed to by the BC, is politically threatening. He and his handlers have not quite figured out how to finesse the information.

The first attempt was the COLB on the 'Fight the Smears' site. Next was to spend money to fight revelation in court and to marginalize 'birthers' as crazy.

These two methods are now crossing the threshold of failure. Where the politics goes next is anyone's guess, but a bluff is best on the first attempt, and Obama's bluff is being called.
=================

[clarice]

Next stop on the Obama express, Ivory Coast? Headlines from Drudge:

1,000 bodies discovered in massacre...
Forces for UN-backed candidate accused...
FRANCE SENDS IN SOLDIERS...
US 'deeply concerned'...

[Ever again.]

This is just endgame, c, of the nationalist losing a democratic election to the party of immigrants.
=========

[The early bird sees the worm.]

I thought is was in the early '80s, Patton. Wake up, but rub your eyes first before hollering that the sky is falling or that housing is haunted.
==============

[clarice]

Thanks, Jane.

[It's so simple even Sarah can figure it out.]

The reason this 'birther' thing has staying power is that really it is just a matter of allegiance, and that to which Obama owes allegiance is not the country to which most of our voters owe allegiance.
========

[Captain Hate]

As I told him, I'm not big on the ism's but it is sexist as hell to treat every conservative woman as if she is stupid. Bachmann has a law degree, a masters in Tax,her own business, 5 kids and about 25 foster kids. She is no dummy.

I'm doing a daddy and playing catch-up: I'm with you on this but I'd take it a step further: Repubs lose their tongues whenever a conservative is attacked by the imbeciles in the MFM, particularly conservative women. This was first illustrated when the "Quayle is stupid" meme was allowed to proliferate with no return fire, essentially sacrificing one of their own. Now Palin and Bachmann are thrown over the side of the boat with nary a peep. To hell with that garbage; how can you support a party that won't even defend itself?

[Bring Bush.]

The schizzy that Clarice notes, is that he's a Tranzi pretending allegiance to the US.
===========

[Crickets back.]

My lucid Stepmother-in-Law once asked where the Republicans got all the 'crazy women' and I told her it was the Furies.
============

[Gmax]

Rangers again put skid marks on the Boston Red Sox. 12 - 5 thumping this time. Crowning blow was a grand slam by former sock Adrian Beltre who deposited one in the cheap seats after what passes for intelligent management of the Sox, walked Hamilton intentionally to get to Beltre!

Three more HRs, two triples and a bunch of doubles plus Hamilton steals a base!

This group is a very powerful lineup and very fun to watch.

[centralcal]

Love Sunday morning Pieces with my coffee. Seriously, I do wonder what caused such a large scar on Barry's head?

[Warped sick by his whole life.]

That's just hair pattern. The scar is internal brain damage.
============

[Captain Hate]

Kim, the Repubs get the women in the spirit of Joan of Arc; that is the ones that have a passion for standing up for the country and its citizens. The donks get the crones like Pelosi and Feinstein who are embarrassed by the country and want to remake it in some doormat image. Quite frankly, it seems like the women Repubs are more astute than their male counterparts on what the mood of the country is and what to do about satisfying it.

[Men, bah, go scare some mice for me.]

You betcha, Cap'n Has It, and they are the Furies.
============

[clarice]

Big Fur Hat has drawn something to go with today's column
http://www.americanthinker.com/baby_barack_1450210c.jpg

[Obama's enthused when he's regarded in the mirror.]

That's very cute, clarice, but doesn't that cute baby look too much like the infant God Janus?
============

[clarice]

My (satiric) point is he was born Janus-like and separated at birth. Of course, Janus faced front and back and that might have been even more appropriate a pictorial image.

[And his hair is on fire.]

I'm sure Obama sees himself as a Janus God like figure, facing the ash heap of the past and the glorious city on a hill he'd like to be known as the architect of. He's got scales before his eyes, though, or a stigmatic lens, or a malignantly melanotic retina, or a neuropathic optic nerve, or a metastasis ridden optical cortex.
===================

[anduril]

Thank You, Andy McCarthy: The Senators Sway
Before they wanted to kill Qaddafi, they were celebrating in his tent. Oh, and Thank You, Wikileaks!

John McCain, Joseph Lieberman, and Lindsey Graham are the Senate’s most energetic proponents of sinking the nation ever deeper into the Libyan morass. In a joint interview on Fox last weekend, Senators McCain (R., Ariz.) and Lieberman (I., Conn.) were breathless in their rendering of the “freedom fighters” and the “Arab Spring” of spontaneous “democracy.” Friday they upped the ante with a Wall Street Journal op-ed, rehearsing yet again what an incorrigible thug Qaddafi is and how “we cannot allow [him] to consolidate his grip” on parts of Libya that he still controls.

For his part, Senator Graham (R., S.C.) told CNN Wednesday that he would like President Obama to designate Qaddafi an “unlawful enemy combatant” with an eye toward legitimizing the strongman’s assassination. He and Wolf Blitzer discussed whether the hit could be pulled off by the covert intelligence operatives President Obama has inserted in Libya. The next day, in his plaintive questioning of Defense Secretary Robert Gates at a Senate hearing, Senator Graham wondered why American air power could not just “drop a bomb on him, to end this thing.”

As a matter of law, Graham’s proposal is ludicrous — no small thanks to federal law that Graham himself helped write, about which more in an upcoming column. What was especially striking about the hearing was the tone of righteous indignation Senators Graham and McCain took in whipping the Obama administration over government blundering.

But what about their own blundering? The senators most strident about the purported need to oust Qaddafi, to crush his armed forces, and to kill him if that’s what it takes to empower the rebels, are the very senators who helped fortify Qaddafi’s military and tighten the despotic grip of which they now despair.

It was only a short time ago, in mid-August 2009, that Senators McCain, Lieberman, and Graham, along with another transnational progressive moderate, Sen. Susan Collins (R., Maine), paid a visit to Qaddafi’s Tripoli compound. If they seem to have amnesia about it now, perhaps that’s because the main item on the agenda was their support for the Obama administration’s offer of military aid to the same thug the senators now want gone yesterday.

A government cable (leaked by Wikileaks) memorializes the excruciating details of meetings between the Senate delegation and Qaddafi, along with his son Mutassim, Libya’s “national security adviser.” We find McCain and Graham promising to use their influence to push along Libya’s requests for C-130 military aircraft, among other armaments, and civilian nuclear assistance. And there’s Lieberman gushing, “We never would have guessed ten years ago that we would be sitting in Tripoli, being welcomed by a son of Muammar al-Qadhafi.” That’s before he opined that Libya had become “an important ally in the war on terrorism,” and that “common enemies sometimes make better friends.”

On and on it goes, made all the more nauseating by the reality that nobody was under any illusion that Qaddafi had truly reformed...

[Ignatz]

--Also, I'm not, as Ignatz suggested, a lawyer.--

Was going to say "my apologies" but then wondered why. I'd say congratulations are in order instead, MJW.
No offense, crack JOM legal team. None intended anyway.

[Ignatz]

--He kept going on about the Lockabie Bombing like it happened yesterday and he threw in the Berlin Disco Bombing too, in order to get us really upset. You know that bad Kadaffi did that he kept repeating.

Yeah, I remember all that. I remember that when IT ACTUALLY HAPPENED. And look I can hold a grudge as long as anyone but her is what ELSE I remember.

I remember that the best President in the 20th Century bombed him for all that and as a result he stopped messing with us.--

RR's bombing was in reaction to the Berlin bombing and Gaddafhi's repeated belligerence in the Gulf of Sidra. Lockerbie happened a couple of years after we bombed him.

[Danube of Thought]

He was born in Hawaii, and he's a natural-born citizen. I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you.

Back on California soil. Adios, Los Barriles...

[sbw]

Pops: I am really starting to think the entire reparations for slavery idea has merit.

I think more reparations are in order. I'm owed some of them because my ancestor Major Alva Waters were put in harms way at Gettysburg to free slaves.

Still have his officer epaulets and spurs.

Reparations are a laughable idea. You can only be held a hostage to history if you follow flights of overblown rhetoric.

[Ignatz]

--Thank You, Andy McCarthy--

Concur.
The gushing was public, as was the money dispensed, by both parties for years.
I wonder if one actual iota of help in the war on terror is extant or whether it was merely promises of help for money up front?
Gaddafhi is crazy like a fox when it comes to the rubes in DC and Foggy Bottom.

--We find McCain and Graham promising to use their influence to push along Libya’s requests for C-130 military aircraft.--

Well they delivered; the C-130's just had an "A" prefix.

[clarice]

Welcome home, DoT.

[sbw]

I admire the audacity of Obama's plan.

Dictators across the globe rest secure now that no one with a glimmer of hope for liberty will ever again trust America's support.

Nothing now stands in the way of Obama becoming Secretary general of the UN.

[anduril]

Provocative by flawed article by Walter Russell Mead: Stratblog: The Virtues of Machiavelli.

[anduril]

Ugh: Provocative by but flawed...

[Threadkiller]

I hope you had a good time DoT, glad you are back.

John Bingham, father of the 14th amendment, statement on the House floor:

“Every human being born within the jurisdiction of the United States of parents not owing allegiance to any foreign sovereignty is, in the language of your Constitution itself, a natural born citizen" Cong. Globe, 39th, 1st Sess ., 1291 (1866)

They needed you in 1866 so somebody could have challenged that statement, because nobody challenged it then or anytime afterwards.

While you are explaining that mystery to me can you help me out with this one.

IRLI misquotes Bingham in an amicus brief filed with the Supreme Court

Here is what Bingham said in 1862:

“All from other lands, who by the terms of [congressional] laws and a compliance with their provisions become naturalized, are adopted citizens of the United States; all other persons born within the Republic, of parents owing allegiance to no other sovereignty, are natural born citizens. Gentleman can find no exception to this statement touching natural-born citizens except what is said in the Constitution relating to Indians.”

Here is the misquote in the amicus:
*********************

**********************

And the larger lie:

"I explained to the staff attorney that this misquote was very problematic to me and the readers of my blog since this “of parents” issue is the core topic of my blog. I directed him to my blog. At this point, I was prepared to let the issue go since I had been informed that the Supreme Court would be properly notified. Although the misquote seemed a bit too “accidental”, I had nothing else to go on. But after the staff attorney went to my blog, he suddenly recalled a message he received about this blog a couple of weeks ago. I was then informed that…

IRLI WAS HEAVILY INVOLVED IN DRAFTING THE COMPACT BETWEEN STATES PERTAINING TO ARIZONA SENATE BILL 1308.

Remember my report on Arizona Senate Bill 1308? That’s the compact between numerous states which slyly defines “natural born citizen” as a person born in the US to one citizen parent.

Well hey now. What have we here? The same people who misquoted Bingham, are responsible for sanitizing Obama’s eligibility."

Rewriting history is how they are explaining away Natural Born in the highest court in the land. I sure your explanation will be more legitimate.

[Danube of Thought]

We've already been through this, TK, and in exquisite detail. How quickly you forget.

[Ignatz]

Good article by Lee Smith at the WS on what is happening in Syria.
The Kurds have taken to the streets which is not good news for Assad. Or Iran. Or Iraq. Or Turkey.

[Army of Davids]

Talk loudly and carry a lot of waiver favors.

[Jane]

Capn'

Did you watch the Sunday shows? Ryan was great - Schumer a jerk and the host's biases are showing so clearly.

[Rocco]

DGS

I've often wondered who lives there now? What a great piece of history to own. On my way to work I would drive from Hudson through Stow to Rt 27 and purposely go a bit out of my way to drive by the Luther Blanchard House, then by the Abner Hosmer house, past Hayward Rd where the Davis house was a short distance down and my hand always covered my heart as I drove past the Davis monument where those great men are resting. I'm not kidding when I say he is my hero, I guess that's why Bachmann's gaffe offended me so much.

[boris]

TK, pretty sure nobody disputes that "all other persons born within the Republic, of parents owing allegiance to no other sovereignty, are natural born citizens". That does not rule out inclusion of other persons with different claims to the term. Anchor babies for example.

My objection to the DoT "understanding" of the term is that it allows for a person to the the natural born citizen of more than one country. That is not consistant with the concept.

[boris]

- to be the natural -

[anduril]

At the 4:10 mark: Flook's The False Proof.

[Cecil Turner]

The gushing was public, as was the money dispensed, by both parties for years.

If we're talking about this one, I find it less than impressive. While Graham's proposal to declare Khadafy an "unlawful enemy combatant" is rather silly (and unnecessary), simply dropping a bomb on him is not.

Moreover, the supposed flip-flopping of the Senators is an even sillier attempt to spread blame evenly. We rewarded Khadafy after he gave up his nuke program and made appropriate lip service about terrorism. That's perfectly practical. The reason Khadafy ought to be ousted (which is the gist of what I can read of the linked WSJ article) is because we decided to bomb him. At this point, engagement is no longer an option, and the only thing left is Machiavellian: "Never do an enemy a small injury." The President is the one with the incoherent policy, not the Senators.

[centralcal]

I think FMD is the father and, if he is, the natural born question about Obama is nil.

Maybe Stanley Ann wasn't certain which of the two men (Davis or Obama) impregnated her?

[Threadkiller]

DoT, are you OK with a fraudulent quote filed with the court?

If the Immigration Reform Law Institute aka IRLI is full of lawyers, that are experts on citizenship, why can’t they find an unmolested quote from U.S. history?

Last time you explained this to me we both were unaware of the Bingham congressional record that was never debated but was instead accepted as fact.

Equally, who would have guessed a team of lawyers, when confronted with the truth, would lie to make their point?

[Threadkiller]

--"I think FMD is the father and, if he is, the natural born question about Obama is nil."--

Until then should we pretend he never said he was born a British subject?

[Jane]

DGS, are you coming to the tea party?

[clarice]

Speaking for myself, I'd rather drill a hole thru my hand without anesthesia than listen again to the Natural Born argument.

Doug Ross lists the top 150 Conservative websites if anyone's curious..
http://directorblue.blogspot.com/2011/04/top-150-conservative-websites.html

[Danube of Thought]

Your hand is safe, Clarice.

What's the deal with those scars? Are they for real?

[Janet]

Maybe Stanley Ann wasn't certain which of the two men (Davis or Obama) impregnated her?

I think that is a possibility too, centralcal.
Her father, Stanley Dunham is something. I'd be interested to know more about him.

[clarice]

DoT, the pics are not photoshopped. Peiople have offered lots of theories from hair growth pattern to cranial surgery..Some say its where Soros inserts the dvds.

[sbw]

Hey! JOM can't be a conservative website. The only knuckle-draggers here are visiting trolls.

[centralcal]

Until then should we pretend he never said he was born a British subject?

Well, Obama lies about so many things . . .

[clarice]

DoT, In this photo it looks like the scar continues down his neck.

http://nation.foxnews.com/michelle-obama/2011/01/24/waiver

[OldTimer]

Barry is a phony little cypher who has an ability to speak the language of goodness, while at the same time deceitfully twisting words and performing deeds that always end up playing into the hands of America's enemies--foreign and domestic. His personality is psychotic at worst and morally dysfunctional at best. A perfect foil to be manipulated by those with whom he agrees ideologically. Although what he actually "believes" is a mystery as well.

All Barry's records would have been aired publicly long before this if what he's told America about himself is true. It obviously isn't, so he and his handlers are smart enough to know if Barry's parentage, allegiance of national origin, or scholastic documents were ever made public and they contradict his stated biography, the falsely created presidential persona (which in truth has only served deceptively as a conduit to achieve anti-American political goals) would be exposed. He would be revealed as the consummate liar he is and his ascension to the throne by devious means could not be denied. The public would finally turn against him and condemn all who aided and abetted his rise to power.

And BTW, I've always wondered at the determination of Barry insisting on keeping his Blackberry when he assumed office, even though the Secret Service was against this seemingly childish dependence, for obvious reasons. Who's on the other end of his conversations?

[narciso]

No, it's the brain port that connects him to the Matrix, his limited grasp on reality, could only be explained this way. Great pieces
as always.

[Captain Hate]

Jane, yes I did although I'm not sure where you saw Chuckie Sleaze. Marco Rubio was pretty good as well although it seemed like Red Diaper Chris was channeling his senile old man a bit too much in the questioning.

[jimmyk]

Maybe Stanley Ann wasn't certain which of the two men (Davis or Obama) impregnated her?

The more plausible story is that FMD needed cover--he had an "open" marriage but wasn't supposed to get anyone pregnant. When he knocked up Stanley Ann he got BO Sr. to take the fall (presumably with lots of money changing hands).

Even in 1961 it wouldn't have been hard to establish paternity. It would be easy now, of course. And even if FMD is the father, that doesn't necessarily reflect badly on Barry unless he knew it all along and lied about it.

[jimmyk]

Maybe those scars explain the birth mystery--he's Frankenstein, created in a lab.

[MayBee]

It's interesting that the Dunhams filed for divorce for Stanley even though there's no evidence of a marriage. Indeed, a marriage was impossible. That shows they were interested even then in some amount of controlling the story.

I believe Obama was born in Hawaii, but if he was born anywhere else I nominate Washington. It wasn't uncommon for girls to go "visit family" in the last months of an embarrassing pregnancy. Flying there just a few weeks after birth with an infant (and the postpartum pain!) seems odd. But of course, odd things happen constantly in real life.

But

[Jane]

Who's on the other end of his conversations?

Ayers, Stern and Wright - DUH

[Jane]

Ugh - Clarice, look at the heading on your latest link:

President Barack Obama goes to get a kiss from Jill Biden, as first lady Michelle Obama watches

[clarice]

Yeah, Jane, but it almost looks as if he had a full head graft in that shot, doesn't it?

[sbw]

Probably did have a head full of graft.

[clarice]

*thwack* sbw.

[sbw]

Ow!

[Threadkiller]

Do not worry about an argument Clarice. There are no facts that support a different definition of Natural Born so there is nothing to argue about.

I wonder if you and DoT are ok with a fraudulent quote getting filed with the court?

[Jane]

Capn' Schumer and Durbin were on the other Obamafests that run on Sunday. I really couldn't listen to Durbin and Schumer makes me want to barf.

[Captain Hate]

Durbin is an embarrassment to any organization; even a group of insane asylum inmates. The residents of Illinois are just as guilty as the Delaware dumbasses for the garbage they keep sending to the Senate.

Schumer makes my skin crawl. I think he could make bedbugs ill.

[narciso]

One is reminded of a line, from that shopworn
sitcom, Benson 'who was he running against, a lizard' in other words which member of Duke
and Duke, lost the crop report.

[Calling a critic of Israel an anti-semite does not make it so.]

"We find McCain and Graham promising to use their influence to push along Libya’s requests for C-130 military aircraft, among other armaments, and civilian nuclear assistance. And there’s Lieberman gushing, “We never would have guessed ten years ago that we would be sitting in Tripoli, being welcomed by a son of Muammar al-Qadhafi.”"

Yesterday's business partners seem, generally, to morph into today's tyrants without even changing their hats.

When Lieberman and Huckleberry Hound start sounding anti-tyrant you can bet they're getting an earful from Israel.

When will some whistleblower in Israel leak to Wikileaks and when will their indigenous population begin demonstrating for Democracy (I mean a genuine democracy) in the Holy Land?

[DebinNC]

The Hill and The Atlantic Wire are "conservatively focused" sites? Hmm..

[Jane]

What is it with McCain Graham and Lieberman. They don't even bother to think about stuff. They are almost as bad as bambi.

[Let's get this Party started]

WhiteRing Christianist Tea-Baggers see nothing but opportunities for putting 'End Times' on fast forward.

"Violent protests in Afghanistan have now spread as far south as Kandahar. However, Jones feels no sense of responsibility. “We do not feel responsible,” he said on Friday. “We feel more that the Muslims and radical Islam uses that as an excuse.” Now, in an interview with the Daily Telegraph, Jones says he might also put the prophet Mohammad on trial:

Terry Jones, the radical pastor who oversaw the burning of a Koran in his Florida church last month after a mock court hearing, may put the Islamic prophet Mohammed on trial in his next ‘day of judgement’, he told The Sunday Telegraph.

“It is definitely a consideration to stage a trial on the life of Mohammed in the future,” he said in interview on Saturday.

Jones said in an interview with ABC News that his burning of the Quran “definitely does prove that there is a radical element of Islam. … I believe the UN needs to stand up to countries like Afghanistan, Pakistan, Muslim-dominated countries. They have been persecuting, killing Christians for generations.”

Una Moore, a development professional based in Afghanistan, wrote on UN Dispatch on Friday that the reaction to Jones in Mazar-i-Sharif marks “the end” of the international community’s involvement in Afghanistan:

Foreigners have been killed in Afghanistan before, and today’s attack was not the first fatal attack on UN staff. But it was different than previous fatal attacks. Very different. The killers were ordinary residents of a city deemed peaceful enough to be one of the first places transferred to the control of Afghan security forces."

The Pastor is the Tea-bagger approved answer to Wikileaks. Very inspirational.

[Let's get this Party started]

strike WhiteRing, insert WhiteWing

[clarice]

In case you were sitting around wondering whatever happened to Crystal Mangum:

"- Durham police say former Duke Lacrosse accuser Crystal Mangum was arrested again overnight. Officers say they were called to the scene of a stabbing at a home located in 3000 block Century Oaks Drive, early Sunday. When police arrived they say they found a 46-year-old male who had been stabbed in the torso. The man was taken to Duke University Hospital for treatment of his serious injuries. Officers say they later arrested Mangum, 32, in a nearby apartment."

[DebinNC]

I hope this means Mangum's children are safe from her the rest of their young lives.

[Janet]

Still reading Dreams...
You know, the antidotes & examples in the book seem very contrived. Even if I hadn't heard about the Ayers theory, I would be suspect about Obama's story.

about the world of his grandparents - "...the taste of vine-ripe tomatoes, sweet as apples; dust storms and hailstorms and classrooms filled with farm boys who got sewn into their woolen underwear at the beginning of winter and stank like pigs as the months wore on."
Huh? Where did this memory come from? What is this from?...some movie or book ABOUT long ago Kansas?

more about Toot's (Obama's grandmother) family - "The family kept their house spotless and ordered Great Books through the mail; they read the Bible but generally shunned the tent revival circuit, preferring a straight-backed form of Methodism that valued reason over passion and temperance over both."
huh again? How does Obama know this stuff? Again, it reads more like a fiction story where the writer puts down details & insights that a writer wouldn't know in a biography.

[Mark Folkestad]

My family has been centered around the Upper Midwest (or North Central states) since they arrived from Norway between 1852 and 1882. We have retained many stories from the early generations in this country, and I have never encountered anything about kids being sewn into their woolen underwear for the duration of the winter, and our winters in Wisconsin, Iowa, Minnesota and both Dakotas tend to be more severe than those in Kansas. I second Janet's thought that much in the book was pure fiction.

[DebinNC]

Here's a report of Obama in Kansas just before the primary. Other than a generic mention of his graddad as an oil rig worker and Toot as Rosie the Riveter, he offered none of the interesting ancecdotes in Dreams... I wonder if he ever repeated those fictional anecdotes anywhere along the campaign trail? I bet not.

[DGS]

Rocco,

We didn't buy it because the historical committee would not allow any changes, even inside the house. The kitchen did not have cupboards but open shelves. So all the dishes and pans are in view. They also controlled the colors that could be painted inside the house.
In addition the side lawn is the meeting place for the Acton Minutemen before the Patriot's Day parade.

[Janet]

From Deb's link -

Obama speaking - "("Ruth was my grandfather's aunt," he said, only to be corrected by her. "No, my grandmother's first cousin. I knew I was going to screw it up. I've been going through my family tree here to figure it all out.")"

Doesn't really know the family, but is a big expert on winter underwear!

"Also in attendance was "Mr. Kearns," the class historian for Obama's grandfather's high school class of 1935, who brought some photos along with him. "He's kind enough not to tell stories about my grandfather. Because my understanding is he got in quite a bit of trouble in high school," Obama said. "But Mr. Kearns is discreet"
Bold mine.

Yeah, I BET he is. Obama's grandfather is something....very sketchy.

[Extraneus]

Is anyone questioning Obama's bio besides Cashill and Trump?

Go Trump!

[PD]

Still reading Dreams...
You know, the antidotes & examples in the book seem very contrived.

When I read the book, I had the feeling within the first few pages that the author was trying to put something over on me. I never lost that sense, all the way to the end.

[Rocco]

In addition the side lawn is the meeting place for the Acton Minutemen before the Patriot's Day parade.

Every Patriots Day I would get stuck behind those Minutemen on my way to work as they marched down Rt 27 then veered off by the Post Office to make the 5 mile march to Concord. The side lawn is where the original Minutemen met on the morning of April 19, 1775. That house is also where the bodies of Davis, Hosmer and Hayward rested for their funeral.

Capt. Robbins' young son rode at full speed to Capt. Davis', a mile and a half distant, about three-fourths of a mile southwest of the meeting-house, and aroused him. Here the minutemen hastily assembled to prepare for the work. Those not having breakfasted were fed and then spent some time in making cartridges. It is probable, however, that but few of the men had cartridges or cartridge-boxes. Most of their ammunitions were carried in powder horns and bullet-pouches.

Mrs. Davis assisted the men in powdering their hair, that they might meet the red coats in a respectable condition.

I always found this interesting as well

Not many days before the raid of the British, during the absence of Capt. Davis and his wife from home, a large owl, a seeming messenger of misfortune, came and roosted on his gun hanging in its accustomed place and it did not seem disposed to leave when the occupants of the house returned. It was allowed to remain for two or three days. This strange visit of the ill-omened bird had a depressing influence upon Capt. Davis, and could not be dismissed from his mind yet or he said little about it.

http://users.rcn.com/greenela/id32.htm

[mockmook]

Rocco, did ya ever consider leaving home earlier? ;-)

[Rocco]

Lol mm...that's the one day a year I didn't mind being late for work. But I really enjoyed that ride to work everyday knowing I was driving down the same road that Captain Davis and his minutemen marched on their way to the North Bridge and Concord fight.