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April 27, 2011

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peter

I like what Mark Levin calls him--Chump.

Ranger

Well, I guess people will now have to focus on important stuff, like this (via RCP):

President Obama will not be re-elected. Period.

Why?

Obamaflation has arrived, and this is what it looks like.

Milk. A gallon of skim. At the local Giant in Central Pennsylvania:

January 11, 2011: $3.20
February 28, 2011: $3.24
March 6, 2011: $3.34
April 23. 2011: $3.48

Soetero/Biden.....His Time.

Yeah, he won't be re-elected. Some guy named Soetero will stand in for him.
===========

Phillydkidder

Inflation has been here over a Year Hershey candy Now Comes with a Microscope to open the Bar of candy without damaging Candy

Jim Rhoads a/k/a vnjagvet

Daddy will be upset. No more wet tee shirt pics to liven up birther threads.

And have for 38 years.  But not before that, much.

I particularly like the way Trump posed it, as not even a fair fight about things like gas prices, when he wouldn't even establish bona fides. Notice that Obama mentioned gas prices. Notice that we all notice gas prices?
=========

Cecil Turner

Weird. Why'd he bother hiding that? And why respond now to Trump? If this was some grand master plan, the fuze fizzle is ridiculous. If it's just the way they handle the brand . . . it's ridiculous. Either way, it's utterly silly.

Appalled

TM:

Team Obama has been sitting on a copy of Obama's original Certificate of Live Birth, and they have finally condescended to release it.

The paper trail does not justify this language in your post. Obama's attorney posted a letter (Dated April 22 -- Friday) asking for the release of the return. The birth certificate certification is stamped 4/25/2011. Given time zone issues, the WH did not have the certificate in hand until Tuesday.

Now, you do have the argument that Obama could have pressed this sooner....

Army of Davids

Democrats (Communists basically) demonizing markets (speculators) and capitalism (Big Oil) is easier on gas price.

It gets harder when groceries get mentioned.

It gets harder when retail gets mentioned.

It gets harder when higher rents get mentioned.

Threadkiller

--"I like what Mark Levin calls him--Chump."--

I like the way Mark Latrine hammers "anchor babies". He says they are not citizens due to their split allegiance.

Latrine is a dope.

Danube of Thought

Now Trump is bragging about it. What else is he gonna do?

bgates

Obama's attorney posted a letter (Dated April 22 -- Friday) asking for the release of the return.

Then why let CNN run a story Tuesday that stated Obama "could file a Freedom of Information Act request", 4 days after he had filed a FOIA request?

Captain Hate

The denizens of Duke & Duke were given a tutorial of how to address B+ Hussein by Trump. Now they've got TOP MEN working on how much of that can be incorporated into activities while still keeping their togas spotless. I'm afraid much dilution will be required.

Cecil Turner

The paper trail does not justify this language in your post.

Yes it does. Unless you posit: 1) this is the first copy the WH handlers ever saw; and, 2) they didn't know what it looked like when they requested this particular copy. And if you believe any part of either of those, I have a bridge to sell you.

MayBee

That comment was very Foo Bar of you, Appalled.

Rob Crawford

By Hawaiian law, birth records can be released only to people with “a direct and tangible” interest in them — a person born in the state, say, or certain relatives or their estates.

Seems to me assessing someone's eligibility for office is a "direct and tangible" interest.

Jim Rhoads a/k/a vnjagvet

The WH must have thought this would have been a slow news day. i Or Barry is up to more mischief today.

Jack is Back!

OT: Received the below quote in an email.

""The budget should be balanced, the Treasury should be refilled,
public debt should be reduced, the arrogance of officialdom should be
tempered and controlled, and the assistance to foreign lands should be
curtailed lest Rome become bankrupt. People must again learn to work,
instead of living on public assistance." - Cicero , 55 BC

So in 2066 years we have learned nothing but the Department of Education still spends $100 billion a year to make sure we continue to learn nothing.
"

Danube of Thought

Seems pretty clear to me that the guy whose birth is being certified would satisfy the "direct and tangible interest" part.

BumperStickerist

We now get to hear tale of Obama's Grand Gesture.

Goody.

-

I find this entire issue illustrative of Obama's political instincts. Which I find lacking.

Having heard the press conference, my reaction was "why the hell did you let this "distraction" linger when the WH could have just released the COLB in a Friday doc dump six months ago?"

-

This ought to have happened Ante-Trump.

.

narciso

True, JiB, yet Cicero's advice was not followed and Rome descended into warlords, first Caesar, then Marc Anthony, ultimately
Octavian,

Porchlight

As far as I can tell, the BC would not have been released - at least not right now - if it weren't for Trump. Obama's demeanor today is that of a man who is pissed off that he has to do what he's doing. If Obama really thought he'd beaten Trump in this round, he'd be smirking.

There are many good reasons to dislike Trump. He's not my cup of tea. But TM is right, he is getting results.

Rob Crawford

Dunno, narciso. Rome definitely ended their policy of foreign aid.

Granted, they did it by conquering the territories they had formerly been assisting, but...

tgs

Once the polls started showing how badly the birth cert issue was hurting Obama he had to cave. He was no longer getting the traction from using it as a wedge issue to paint his detractors as kooks and morons. When the poll numbers started eating into the independents and even some dems at significant levels the issue had to finally be put to rest.

Janet

Here is Ann's comment from the end of the last thread -
"Captain:

President said U.S. not going to be able to solve real problems if people keep fighting, getting distracted "by sideshows & carnival barkers"

According to his white house schedule today, he is off to tape Oprah in Chicago and then three New York fundraisers.

Posted by: Ann | April 27, 2011 at 10:20 AM "

Hah! Really, the left only wants us to listen to THEIR sideshows & carnival barkers.

BB Key

ACE has a good look at O's academic claims Law review AA, SAt, LSAT, with honors, grades

Tom Maguire
Team Obama has been sitting on a copy of Obama's original Certificate of Live Birth, and they have finally condescended to release it.

The paper trail does not justify this language in your post.

Hmm, evidently I found my inner Foo Bar unaided; I revised my post after finding the link to the White House correspondence. That said, since it has been obvious for years that they *could* have gotten this document at any time, "condescended to release it" is still right.


If this was some grand master plan, the fuze fizzle is ridiculous.

The "all my critics are racist" card seems to be played out, and even CNN was noting that the White House could release the long form. Still, I don't think there was much of a plan.

Here is some Breaking Speculation - Julian Assange of Wikileaks had been given a copy by a frustrated Hawaiian state employee who wanted to end this.

Sue

ABC News Radio reports that "Obama has now declared the birth certificate issue is over". Got that? Obama had declared it and Ann Compton is happy to report it that way.

Chubby

I guess all the libbies who've been trumpeting that this was a winning issue for them -- begging the birthers to step it up, claiming Obama was witholding because it would lead to electoral victory for him -- were lying through their teeth. What a surprise.

Ranger

And another Ivory Coast update:

Ivory Coast: Pro-Ouattara forces clash in Abidjan

Fighting has broken out in the Ivorian city of Abidjan between forces loyal to the new president and the "Invisible Commandos", a rival militia.

Now, I know that sounds like exactly the same headline and slug that I posted last week, but writing the news is easy when its that same thing happening over and over again.

Dave (in MA)

Well, I hope Hillary's satisfied now.

Jeff

Trump 1, Obama 0

Trump was never a birther ... what he does know is when an opponent is ducking and he forced the issue with Obama ... Trump never thought that he was going to catch Obama in a lie ... he wanted a response and he got one ...

On to those college transcripts ...

Janet

and another Ann point - where is the notary seal? Obama BC
Another Hawaiian BC

narciso

'Mission accomplie' ,Ranger, you know my view on this, isn't this the way; the butchery in the Congo, got started?

MayBee

Now Republicans will stop being forced to answer the distracting question of whether Obama was born in the US.
You note he never complained about that particular distraction. He's such a baby.

Captain Hate

That's a good point, MayBee; what is Mika the dimwit and the rest of the clowns on Morning Schmoe going to hector Repubs with?

Danube of Thought

I predict that he will not release any academic transcripts or test scores. And since they are unrelated to questions about his eligibility for office, I don't think he'll get very much public pressure to do so.

clarice

The smoking gun says non believers will pick up several items in the bc..Pls note the bolded stuff and kiss my feet for suggesting this long before the bc was released. (HEH)

• If the original document was in a bound volume (as reflected by the curvature of the left hand side of the certificate), how can the green patterned background of the document's safety paper be so seamless?

• Why, if Obama was born on August 4, 1961, was the “Date Accepted by Local Reg.” four days later on August 8, 1961?

• What is the significance of the smudges in the box containing the name of the reported attendant?

• David A. Sinclair, the M.D. who purportedly signed the document, died nearly eight years ago at age 81. So he is conveniently unavailable to answer questions about Obama’s reported birth.

• In the “This Birth” box there are two mysterious Xs above “Twin” and “Triplet.” Is there a sibling or two unaccounted for?

• What is the significance of the mysterious numbers, seen vertically, on the document’s right side?

• Finally, the “Signature of Local Registrar” in box 21 may be a desperate attempt at establishing the document’s Hawaiian authenticity. Note to forgers: it is spelled “Ukulele.”

Danube of Thought

Hmmmm...and just how did poor Dr. Sinclair die?

I question the timing.

Jim Rhoads a/k/a vnjagvet

In reading troll comments on another post, it appears the latest meme from the left is that the whole issue was driven by hate and race.

That damn Hillary. What a hating racist to have started the whole thing.

Chubby

((kiss my feet for suggesting this long before the bc was released. ))

Yesterday, (was that "long before"?) you said this issue was getting legs. I am amazed by your prescience.

Leo's right, dyed in the wool birthers will just think it's being pulled over their eyes.

Interesting Janet. And that certificate is numbered only 4 before Obama's.

Any idea what the numbers noted to the right of many of the entrants means? Maybe it's in pencil, done by someone checking something, or doing an analysis.

But, yes, where's the seal?
==========

clarice

That's me all right, Chubby, Ms prescience.

MayBee

I, too, wondered about the numbers. I thought maybe it had something to do with data entry done later on.

MayBee

CH- Mika and the Hectorers will probably resume asking republicans about Obama's religion.

I'd guess there's enough to establish its authenticity.  No one really will be satisfied until examination of the original is made by independent experts.  They exist.  So does the dilemma.

I suspect the smudges in the box reflected the signer's unsureness as to whether an 'x' or a check mark was indicated there. I've done that sort of thing repeatedly.
============

fdcol63

Even if we assume the LFBC is genuine, how does - or does it, at all - effect the issue of Obama Sr.'s British/Kenyan citizenship and how it relates to possible dual citizenship for PrezBO and criteria for "natural born citizen"?

Hate to be redundant if I am, but I'm still confused on this.

Rocco

You'll notice similar #'s on Nordyke's BC

Danube of Thought

Here's Insty's take on it:

The White House may think it’s sprung a trap, but I think they waited too long. By now — as the polls from earlier this week showing how many independents thought Obama wasn’t born here, and which probably prompted the release decision, indicate — the damage is done. Even if people change their minds on the issue, for many the residual suspicion will remain: The thought that regardless of where he was born, there’s something shady about him.
Jim,MtnViewCA,USA

"Obama's religion"
It is considered noteworthy in some circles that BHO routinely posts a Presidential blahblahblah for every Muslim holy day. But there was zip, nada, zilch to mark Easter.

Danube of Thought

how does - or does it, at all - effect the issue of Obama Sr.'s British/Kenyan citizenship and how it relates to possible dual citizenship for PrezBO and criteria for "natural born citizen"?

It doesn't affect it at all, because his father's citizenship and his possible dual citizenship do not preclude his being a natural born citizen. The 14th Amendment, Wong Kim Ark and Title 8 U.S. Code Section 1401(a) control.

fdcol63

Thanks, DoT.

Chubby

((That's me all right, Chubby, Ms prescience.))

:)

considering that the talking point about his dazzling brilliance is at stake, do you think he will release his transcripts ?

Porchlight

Hmmmm...and just how did poor Dr. Sinclair die?

I question the timing.

Heh.

FWIW, some Obama supporters (not "official" WH IIRC) had said that they believed the OB in attendance was a Dr. Rodney West, recently deceased.

Guess it wasn't him after all.

Sue

In the 1960s, they kept you in the hospital for days, sometimes up to a week. Notice his mother signed the certificate on 8/7/1961. Probably when she was getting ready to leave the hospital. I know for a fact that our local hospital sends stacks of birth certificates and death certificates to a doctor for signature, and he signs them when he has the opportunity to do so.

My speculation on the numbers are also data entry. Someone was showing someone else what information to input in a particular spot on a data entry form.

It's over, as far as I'm concerned. He was born in Hawaii. His father was Obama Sr. He was born in the hospital, attended by a doctor.

Unless he forged the certificate. Which I do not believe he did.

Ignatz

--The White House may think it’s sprung a trap..--

You don't spring a trap half way between two elections, nor do you wait until the polling gets bad and the framing of the issue changes, if you've been sly enough to set a trap.
He got rolled.
Despite his petulance and big mouth, our president is a pussy.
The sooner we accept that the sooner we'll all understand him better.

Threadkiller

fdcol63, ask DoT where "The 14th Amendment, Wong Kim Ark and Title 8 U.S. Code Section 1401(a)" say "natural born citizen". (hint:they do not)

Was that your citation? No wonder you don't want to go over it again.

Sue

Rocco,

Also notice the date she was born and the date her doctor signed her birth certificate.

Frau Kalender

clarice, Prez. Barry was born on a Friday and the 8th was a Tuesday.
LUN

Was the Registrar really a Mr. Jumping Flea?

MayBee

Porch- yeah, Snopes used the Dr. West story as "evidence" of a Hawaiian birth. LUN

Which really shows how ridiculous the push back was. Obama could have released this long ago and spared a lot of news outlets some embarrassment.

Porchlight

Yeah, I don't think it's significant that Nordyke's cert # precedes Obama's even though she was born a day later. The BC gets filled out when the parents are ready to do it, and then there might be subsequent paperwork delays.

Uncle BigBad

I love this comment over at AoS:

“As a friend noted on Facebook, Obama’s popularity is falling so fast that Kenyans are now claiming Obama was born in the United States.”

Porchlight

Thanks, MayBee, I didn't think I was imagining that. Some evidence.

Can we now also conclude that Joshua Wisch was either wrong or lying when he said it was not legally possible for Obama to obtain a copy of his long form certificate? Birthers were called crazy for disputing Wisch on that assertion.

Rex

Clarice,

It's pretty clear to me that the numbers in the margin were made in pencil and probably the result of someone coding the document for statistical input.

As for the "seal", every state is different, but most of them (to my undertain knowledge) have laws on the books that state that the --signature-- is the seal, not an embossed seal. For example, Notaries in New York State purchase real mechanical seals only because many customers don't know that by state law, the signature is the seal. The embossing doesn't add a whit of legal significance.

I assume (there's that word) that Hawaii is the same.

C.R.

But, why? Why did he not release this before as it does appear to put the issue to rest? What possible reason could he have had? Why spend the money fighting this in court?

Can't tell if this one is.  Must.  See.  It.

Rex, the birth certificate numbered four previously is embossed.
============

Stephanie

The payments to the law firm to fight this was subrosa payback to keep Sarah Palin in check. The law firm was the group that kept the trolls in Alaska in high cotton overturning trashcans for info on her.

It's not the birth certificate, it's the 'cover up.' Why spend meellyons of dollars on a non issue? To funnel money to your PI investigating law firm without raising a stink about oppo research.

The birth cert would probably have been released before the election (don't candidates usually release them a month or so prior to the election) if the campaign didn't feel the need to keep funneling money to the oppo researchers to keep Palin in check.

The 'Trump card' has forced a significant foreclosure of the expenditures of additional sums to the law firm to go after Palin. Either they think she is sufficiently neutralized (doubtful) or they were sufficiently spooked by the latest polls. Either way, their subrosa warlords are taken off the chess board.

Chubby

((What possible reason could he have had? Why spend the money fighting this in court?))

because he's a putz?

BB Key

Porch, That is Isikoff's style: Make things up

Walter

TK,

WKA does mention "natural born". It just wasn't necessary to decide the case, as they only needed to determine whether he was a citizen.

I think I understand why your focus on the difference between a "natural born" citizen and a person born a citizen disturbs me at a visceral level: If you are correct, my second son, born via a cesarean operation, may be ineligible to be President. I am also concerned about my nephew who was assembled in a test-tube in the UK (with 100% US ingredients) but birthed (naturally) in Michigan. Not once have these questions been litigated on the merits. A negative answer on either would be personally devastating.

Appalled

Cecil and MayBee:

I refer you to TM's later comments. He corrected his own post to reflect the docs on the White House website.

Frankly, you'll have a better time with Obama's (typically) greaceless remarks on the issue than the bc itself. For a man that prides himself as some above it all character who brings us all together, he is awfully prickly little twerp. His Mama really failed at teaching him some manners. If he had been born in Kenya, he probably would have learned a little respect for somebody besides his own sublimely awesome self.

Danube of Thought

Fdcol, the weight of authority holds that natural-born citizen is synonymous with "citizen at birth," and the sources I cited establish that Obama meets that test, which certainly satisfies the concerns of the Founders.

There are those who argue otherwise, but not many, and most of them acknowledge that they are not arguing about what the law is but rather what they think it should be if originalist principles were observed.

In any event Obama's eligibility has been ratified by the votes of the electors and the absence of congressional objection to those votes. He is the president, and he cannot be removed except by death, impeachment, resignation or the next vote of the electors.

Jack is Back!

Should we got to LGF and put Chucky on the case?

It looks like a Lucy Martinez special to me. Anyone check the type to see if it matches 1961 Remingtons? Or does it look like Word helvitica?

Frequency check, Kenneth.

Rob Crawford

For a man that prides himself as some above it all character who brings us all together, he is awfully prickly little twerp.

And a twerpy little prick, too.

MayBee

I refer you to TM's later comments. He corrected his own post to reflect the docs on the White House website.

Yes, and he noticed your FooBar ness, too. Come on. You were very serious about that little jibe.

As for your lesson about what I would Frankly be better off focusing on, it is precisely what I did focus on. My first comment was that we now have evidence Obama was just being a dick.

Janet

But, why? Why did he not release this before as it does appear to put the issue to rest? What possible reason could he have had? Why spend the money fighting this in court?

I wonder too C.R.. Sketchy, sketchy, sketchy.

Ranger

Ann, from your keyboard to Drudge's page:

OBAMA: 'I've got better stuff to do'...

Heads to Chicago to tape Oprah show...

C.R.

Porchlight - It was an exception to policy. This is from The Daily Caller:

After all the explanations given by Hawaii officials, including the attorney general, that it was against the law to release a copy of the document, Director of Health Loretta Fuddy approved the request three days later.

“I have the legal authority to approve the process by which copies of such records are made … I am making an exception to current departmental policy,” Fuddy wrote.
LUN

Danube of Thought

"No wonder you don't want to go over it again."

I don't want to go over it again for the same reason I don't want to come to bat in the bottom of the ninth when I'm winning: Game over.

Chubby

((Frankly, you'll have a better time with Obama's (typically) greaceless remarks on the issue than the bc itself.))

whenever I find myself starting to feel a bit sorry for Obama, I remember his merciless treatment of President Bush and the atrocious behavior of Obama's followers at the Inauguration, and any sympathy I might have for him miraculously evaporates

Appalled

MayBee:

Yes, I was serious that the paper trail did not match what TM said originally. Because it didn't. That's not open to dispute.

TM changed his post -- problem solved. I don't think TM is evil. Just think he jumped to a conclusion.

Jane (sit on the couch or save your country)

Can we now also conclude that Joshua Wisch was either wrong or lying when he said it was not legally possible for Obama to obtain a copy of his long form certificate?

Well the real response is - when has Obama ever obeyed any law when it didn't suit his purpose?

MayBee

I fear that if TK keeps pressing the natural born thing, we are going to have to look at semi naked women again.

narciso

Yes, not surprising, they 'don't know, what they don't know' What's the price of gas in Chicago, food, so the Bernanke presser, more
green shoots,

MayBee

As I said, appalled. Foo Bar.

There are ways to point out facts without being FooBar ish. You usually have a more humorous touch.

Threadkiller

--"WKA does mention "natural born". It just wasn't necessary to decide the case, as they only needed to determine whether he was a citizen."--

If they thought "natural born" was not necessary to decide the case, and common knowledge was "natural born" status is given to anyone born on U.S. soil, wouldn't they have been deciding "natural born" no matter what?


They excluded "natural born" because it was not synonymous with citizen at birth.

Was your son born here?

Porchlight

Thanks for the update, C.R. Funny how the President can get around these things when he actually wants to.

boris

'difference between a "natural born" citizen and a person born a citizen'

Nobody has made a claim that "natural born" has anything to do with the medical concept of natural birth as opposed to cesarean or test tube.

IMO natural born referes to what all nations have historically considered citizens by birth, ie children of citizens.

The 14th extended "citizen at birth" to children born here of slaves using language directed to that circumstance. The parents of those children not owing allegiance to another nation.

WKA apparantley extended "citizen at birth" to pretty much any child born here not explicitly excluded and threw in "natural born" to boot.

None of that changes my opinion that the founders used the term to mean "children of US citizens born in the US".

Danube of Thought

"Not once have these questions been litigated on the merits"

McCain's eligibility was challenged on the merits in federal court, but the case was dismissed for lack of standing. No federal court will ever declare ineligible a person born on American soil or two (in certain circumstances one) American parent, and I seriously doubt that in such a case a plaintiff with standing will be found. The issue will be discussed ad nauseum on the fringes, but that's about it.

JM Hanes

What a great month! Petulant leader of the free world capitulates to carnival barker. Makes a nice bookend for petulant Attorney General capitulating to know-nothing Congress.

Better archive that White House birther page, before it disappears. It really deserves a proper fisking, but for pure entertainment value, I'd start with this:

The state sent the campaign the President’s birth certificate, the same legal documentation provided to all Hawaiians as proof of birth in state, and the campaign immediately posted it on the internet. That birth certificate can be seen here (PDF).
Don't stop laughing till you check out the actual PDF link which comes to us courtesy of.....Snopes.com! Maybe the White House was just trying to throw the birthers a poisoned bone, because if you actually plug in the Snopes' URL from the White House page, you get the green version. But never mind! They probably just saw the wisdom of pretending that Fight the Smears never existed.

I've already maxed out my links/post, and I haven't even really gotten started! Oh man, I wish I'd been a fly on the White House wall when they were parsing this thing out.

peter

LUN as to how this certificate was obtained

Rocco

I noticed that Sue...well it was fun while it lasted! On to my anti-christ theory!

narciso

It goes to show you, JM, they are as careless with this, as with everything else, 'leading
from behind' indeed.

Brett Bellmore

"There are many good reasons to dislike Trump. He's not my cup of tea. But TM is right, he is getting results. "

And there you have why he released it: To help Trump, against whom he has no particular doubts he can win.

Walter

Well, the property on which he was born was at one point or another during the past few centuries part of three different european empires and at least one native one. But all those sharp knives could never be considered part of a natural birth. &Gosh, what about epidurals?* How 'natural' are they? OTOH, I recently had a neice born at her house, attended by local EMT's. No question there.
_______________________
*The 9-year-old sister of the new-born's comment on the blessed event, related in a dead-pan voice: "Mommy screamed".

Porchlight

And there you have why he released it: To help Trump, against whom he has no particular doubts he can win.

But Trump may decide not to run. Or he may run and not win the primary. In either case he can continue to draw attention to Obama's failings in the short term.

No. Occam's Razor says tgs upthread is right. Obama released the BC because the polling went the wrong way on it, and Trump in recent weeks was driving that polling.

Ignatz

--I fear that if TK keeps pressing the natural born thing, we are going to have to look at semi naked women again.--

Is that a dare? Or should I say another dare?

I'm half beginning to suspect one of those gals is Maybee.

Frau Kalender

OK, Donald, now scare up the marriage license for Stanley and Barack Sr. which according to a divorce document took place 2 Feb 1961 in Wailuku on the neighboring island of Maui. Date and place should make it a cinch ... or?

Danube of Thought

So you didn't like the guy in the wet shirt?

Frau Kalender

Real men don't need to be wet, Dances with Martinis.

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Wilson/Plame