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May 20, 2011

Comments

anduril

Yes, the substance of cathyf's 12:43 post--because it's important to correct the mixed up thoughts that cathyf expresses.

When members of a minority attempt to persuade members of the majority to take their side in a particular cause, there is a characteristic imbalance. A member of the minority can be motivated to hold the opinion on two bases: the first is some general principle, while the second basis is merely the self-interest of being advantaged by the outcome. An outsider cannot, by definition, have the second motive, so must necessarily be motivated by general principle.

My example about Medina serves to distinguish between a right of return which is based upon the general principle of the right to live on one's ancestors' land, from a right of return based upon the particular principle of advancing Muslims over Jews. It serves to illustrate the deadly serious point that the general principle of a right to steal other people's property based upon the fact that ones ancestors once owned it is evil and demonic and would lead to the destruction of all civilization if allowed to take hold.

cathyf's two paragraphs here are unnecessarily convoluted, but we can leave that to one side--except for this: I'd like a specific example re this business of "outsiders."

I recognize no general right to live on one's ancestors land. Nor do I espouse a principle of "advancing Muslims over Jews." In fact, cathyf, as a Catholic, should be aware that not all Palestinians are Muslims. In 1950 somewhat over 10% of Palestinians were Christians. The Palestinian "right of return" arises in the context of the desire of some to see peace in Palestine, and of the continuing desire of Palestinian refugees (of whatever faith), many of whom were alive in 1950, to return not to the land of their ancestors but to their own land. The desire of people who became refugees in 1950 to return to their own land is totally different from cathyf's absurd hypothetical re Medina.

There is, however, another "right of return" at play here. It is the claimed "right of return" accorded by the State of Israel to all Jews everywhere in the world to "return" to the supposed "land of their ancestors. As I said, I recognize no such "right of return," even supposing for the sake of argument that the facts were as stated. Thus, I recognize no right of return of Native Americans to Manhattan, etc.

Curiously, cathyf--if I understand her correctly--is very much in agreement with me on all this. Thus, she writes:

the general principle of a right to steal other people's property based upon the fact that ones ancestors once owned it is evil and demonic

Note how closely cathyf's language here corresponds to Ben-Gurion's language, as I quoted it in one of those earlier posts (one of those in reference to which cathyf says: "I had to go back and read all that stuff I missed."):

"Why should the Arabs make peace? If I was an Arab leader I would never make terms with Israel. That is natural: we have taken their country ... There has been anti-Semitism, the Nazis, Hitler, Auschwitz, but was that their fault? They only see one thing: we have come here and stolen their country. Why should they accept that? They may perhaps forget in one or two generations' time, but for the moment there is no chance. So it is simple: we have to stay strong and maintain a powerful army."[4]

cathyf and Ben-Gurion are alike in recognizing that the Zionists came and stole property from the Palestinians. Ben-Gurion thought the Palestinians might forget that fact "in one or two generations' time." The generation of the dispossessed is still alive, and neither they nor their children have forgotten. In the meantime, Israel has attempted 1) to flood itself with outsiders claiming an "evil and demonic" general right to "return" to the "land of their ancestors;" and 2) Israel has also attempted to make life so miserable for non-Jews both in the occupied territories as to induce them to go elsewhere. That latter attempt has failed, and the demographic future of Palestine is one of an Arab majority.

In the face of these facts, the US has a moral obligation based on the fact of our intimate involvement in events there since 1950, and especially based upon our past support for the "evil and demonic" general right to "return" to the "land of one's ancestors." We need to face up to this fundamental question of justice. And I once again appeal to cathyf's conscience as a Catholic to address these issues seriously.

Addendum: it is easily possible to distinguish the case of the Polish - German territorial changes after WWII (instigated by the Soviet Union and accepted by the Allies) from the Palestine situation. The Germans were dispossessed by the the USSR and Allies as punishment for their stupifying moral turpitude as well as to afford an additional buffer zone for Russia against the possibility of a future resurgent Germany which had twice invaded the Russian heartland.

BB Key

Barry, Nobody gives a damn what you said in your speech yesterday.....

clarice

Jimmyk, That's the way I recall it went down. Egypt said get out and the UN fled, leaving the area unguarded and wide open for assault.

The exchange of correspondence on this made me realize a major in something called International Law was as solid as cotton candy...there isn't any.

Danube of Thought

"Everyone has to claim that they SOB my posts"

Wrong. Those of us with the Narcisolator never even see them, unless we're on an Ipad, which does not support that magnificent device. That's how enthralled we are with your endless, half-mad drivel.

Threadkiller

It would be even harder to pick out if you left it on the other thread.

Porchlight

Yes, ccal - he is really ticked. Look at his closed posture vs. Bibi's open one. Only one guy in charge in this picture and O is not happy.

Janet

How about when they were younger -

fdcol63

The Arabs were dispossessed by the Israelis as punishment for their stupifying moral turpitude as well as to afford an additional buffer zone for Israel against the possibility of a future resurgent Arab world which had thrice invaded the Israeli heartland.

Melinda Romanoff

Headline: War Powers Act first to be Raptured.

fdcol63

Obama: Once a punk, always a punk.

anduril

Yo, Janet, Netanyahoo looks like he's ready for the Rapture in that picture!

BTW, you never did reply to my request yesterday. It was made in all seriousness.

Danube of Thought

Great pic, Janet.

Threadkiller

That is great Janet!

Situation Awareness vs. Situation Comedy.

Jane

My goodness barry got his hat handed to him. I bet Netanyahu doesn't get to leave by the front door.

Porchlight

Marvelous, Janet! That says it all, doesn't it?

Porchlight

There is a state dinner tonight for Bibi. It's going to be a little tense, I imagine.

Threadkiller

Depends on who crashes the party, Porch.

clarice

The body language with Hillary is even more telling.

Extraneus

Here's video (via Ace). It doesn't show BO's b.s. from before Netanyahu's comments (regarding "The principles I laid out yesterday," etc.).

Porchlight

BTW, Bibi is quite the fox in Janet's pic.

Janet

Yeah Porchlight. Not long ago there was a video going around of Bibi ...maybe college age, speaking at some debate. He was wonderful. Well spoken, calm.

We have a d*#n hipster for President. It is embarrassing.

narciso

Found some more pics, probably from the same source:

http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?168590-Sayeret-Matkal-pics

Janet

I just realized that I know more about Netanyahu's college years than Barry Soetoro's college years. :(

Danube of Thought

For those who may not remember, Bibi's older brother was the leader of the raid at Entebbe, which sprung the release of all those hijacked airline passengers. He was killed in the raid, and I believe he was the only Israeli casualty.

Porchlight

Here is that video, Janet:

http://www.pjtn.org/PJTNBlog/tabid/72/entryid/92/Default.aspx

Janet

thanks for that link, narciso. I feel like crying today....just sick at the thought of our "leadership".

Janet

Yeah Porchlight! Thank you...

Porchlight

Welcome Janet. Thanks also to narciso, those are great photos. There is a photo of Bibi's brother Yoni at the link.

Extraneus

The video I just linked of Netanyahu schooling Barry should cheer you up, Janet.

Danube of Thought

The vide of Bibi today was wonderful.

anduril

For any Netanyahoo groupies out there, there is hope:

Netanyahu's first marriage was to Dr. Miriam Weizmann, during which the couple had a daughter named Noa. His second marriage (1981–84) was to Fleur Cates, a British citizen whom he met while they were both living in Boston. In 1991 Netanyahu married his third wife, Sara Ben-Artzi, a psychology major working as a flight attendant, whom he met while traveling on an El Al flight from New York to Israel. He and Sara have two sons, Yair and Avner.

I believe there were numerous in-betweens as well.

Walter

So Hit, have you been able to resolve the property dipute with the bears? Or was it just a crafty way to get a compliment to Mrs. Hit's breakfast cookery in the Wall Street Journal?

Rick Ballard

Janet,

Geez - backpedal and read that poll regarding BOzo's support among the newly credentialed morons. The excited young and ignorant were worth about half of his 3 point landslide and they're just not into BOzo anymore. He's gonna cap off his Zionist plot blather by going after GS on criminal charges again next week and a portion of what he's doing is punishment of another "reliable" group for failure to open their wallets for the scumbag.

The unions are sick of him and his remaining core group is rather notorious for taking rather than giving. My read is that the genocidal commie prog slavers around the world are pretty much on the ropes and I can't think of a time that has been better for delivering the KO punch.

Back when the TBTF garbage started, TM posited the question of whether we were seeing a liquidity problem or a solvency problem. I believe the question has been answered and the progs are going to go through Chapter 7 as a result.

clarice

From your mouth, Rick...


From BOTW (Did I miss, Hit? I'll have to go back):

How bad is Gingrich as a candidate? He doesn't even have John Kerry's comic timing. The stuff he says is so crazy and outrageous that one quickly becomes desensitized to it.

The stuff he's saying now is objectively hilarious, but that's a perilous oxymoron, because it's not nearly as funny as yesterday's material about sheep and the liar's paradox. Even someone who is as much of a genius as Newt can't possibly outdo that.

By contrast, Kerry, the haughty, French-looking Massachusetts Democrat who by the way served in Vietnam, never stops being funny. He has the hat to this day! Kerry's secret is that he has just enough self-restraint to maintain an illusion of dignity among those who sympathize with him politically. That they take him seriously only adds to the humor.

Gingrich would be funnier if he could find other people to say with a straight face things like, "This is something that happens once or twice a century." But good luck with that.

Porchlight

Commenter on FR:

I spent 28 years as a diplomat. I have never heard one leader say to another publicly what Bibi just said to The One. This was the diplomatic equivalent of giving Obama a swift kick in the nuts followed by a knee to the head.

245 posted on Friday, May 20, 2011 1:57:56 PM by kabar

clarice

What do you suppose will be on the menu tonight? HEH

With this administration's sense of protocol I expect shrimp and pork etouffee or something along those lines.
Well, the good thing about state dinners is it keeps MO busy getting bewigged and contained so she can't run around ordering more fixes to kids' food..

clarice

I'm expecting company tomorrow and did a lot of preparatory cooking. If by chance I get raptured (unlikely, I know) I want to take all that stuff with me.

Jane

Ya know what really is starting to bug me? When people refer to bambi's position as: "The Americans believe Israel should surrender its borders".

Not this American and I am sick of getting lumped in with bambi. I believe so little of what he believes and I think I am in the majority.

clarice

I suppose bambi has about as much support on foreign policy issues (let's give Egypt billions of dollars, i.e.) as he does on Obamacare, Jane. Maybe the press geniuses haven't caught on yet.

centralcal

Well, Clarice - I guess if we are all still around tomorrow, that means we didn't get "raptured" and all Hell is about to descend upon us?

pagar

Clarice, before your company takes you away from us, could you take a look at this Big Government story and see if it couldn't be an American Thinker or PM Tatler story.

http://biggovernment.com/bmccarty/2011/05/20/family-facing-4-million-in-fines-for-selling-bunnies/

Family Facing $4 Million in Fines for Selling Bunnies.

The Dept of Ag has gone insane.

Thanks

Bush IS the law

We’ve been around for almost four thousand years. We’ve experienced struggle and suffering like no other people. We’ve gone through expulsions, pogroms and massacres and the murder of millions.

But I can say that even at the dearth, even at the nadir of the valley of death, we never lost hope and we never lost our dream of reestablishing a sovereign state in our ancient homeland, the land of Israel.

And now it falls on my shoulders as the Prime Minister of Israel, at a time of extraordinary instability and uncertainty in the middle east to work with you and fashion a peace that will ensure Israel’s security and will not jeopardize it’s survival."

BiBi pulls the 'jewish suffering' card.

It's nothing new. Same old 'Kvetching' about how difficult their lives are. The Lord provided them with a miraculous food that sprung up in the desert, 'manna' which they came to disdain.

Exodus 16:3 The Israelites said to them, "If only we had died by the LORD's hand in Egypt! There we sat around pots of meat and ate all the food we wanted, but you have brought us out into this desert to starve this entire assembly to death."

Numbers 14:2 All the Israelites grumbled against Moses and Aaron, and the whole assembly said to them, "If only we had died in Egypt! Or in this desert!

Then the poop hits the fan....

" But the whole assembly talked about stoning them. Then the glory of the LORD appeared at the tent of meeting to all the Israelites. 11 The LORD said to Moses, “How long will these people treat me with contempt? How long will they refuse to believe in me, in spite of all the signs I have performed among them? 12 I will strike them down with a plague and destroy them, but I will make you into a nation greater and stronger than they.”

So much for the notion they are the 'chosen people'. God was on the brink of destroying them several times, but Moses always got
a pass for them. The only thing God was concerned with was the promise to Abraham.
He could raise descendants from the stones in the desert if need be. He didn't need their ungrateful whining.

Nothing changes. They beg at our door then pull the race card when it suits them,

Extraneus

Drudge:

I ME MINE: Obama praises CIA for bin Laden raid, while saying 'I' 37 times...

'Not worried about who's getting the credit'...

maryrose

EXT:
That is typical of Obama to put his face on and to take credit for golfing and sitting in a room watching a blank screen for 25 minutes.
The new Bush wannabee in his utter is the law character is odious in the extreme.

clarice

pagar, I'm sorry but I do not know enough about the rules in such things to do that.

Old Lurker

More important news has intervened on this thread since this morning's discussion about using purse strings to control the executive, but I did not want that subject to close without saying, as MayBee started to say, that such checks only work if somebody refuses to write a check lacking congressional budgetary approval.

To digress to a smaller version of this game, I was on the board of a national well endowed non profit. As a compulsive numbers guy, I dug into the books and discovered the most complicated, confusing, and arcane accounting one could ever hope to see. When I became audit chair I told our big eight auditor that in my opinion our books were (probably) totally accurate but also totally useless for oversight purposes. As we dug deeper and deeper into it, that comment proved to be exactly right: Nobody had stolen anything, but the DC A-List players on our board had been schnookered for years into believing they were controlling management when in fact it was exactly the other way around.

Now we have a congress that has not even done a budget in two years; budgets when done cover only items they decide to place "on budget", there is no accountability for spending and seemingly there is never an end to the checks that can be written. (Debt ceiling having been reached, spending continues nonetheless)

So effective as the Founders intended the Power of the Purse to be, in today's system, as MayBee points out, it does not constrain the executive in the least.

Impeach them or vote them out.

MarkO

This is a sign of the times:


Indiana Governor Mitch Daniels received 16 stitches Friday following a wound to his forehead

According to the Governor’s office, the accident occurred at the National Institute for Fitness and Sport in Indianapolis. The governor had just finished working at approximately 1:30 pm, and “he was standing near a door. The door suddenly swung open and struck the governor in the forehead.”

Bush IS the law

I rage and rage and rage and rage, yet my penis remains tiny and limp!

What am I doing wrong?!?

Bush IS the law

Those kikes. I bet it's those fucking kikes, keeping my penis tiny and limp.

Fucking Bibi. I hope Obama nukes him.

Old Lurker

BTW, our Board was 110% behind our reforms because the Feds went after the independent trustees of another big nonprofit in town for "failing to ask appropriate questions sufficient for due diligence demanded of a board member". Scared the carp out of some very important folks and had them all scrambling to read their unbrella policies.

Now I will not name names, but some key players on the Hill were also on the Boards of these non profits, and it always surprised us real business folks that our famous brethern were so casual about these problems until we realized that SNAFU was all they knew.

Ignatz

--So much for the notion they are the 'chosen people'.--

Read the last half of Romans 11 lately?

Old Lurker

Sure is hard to type on an iPad. Sorry for my spelling!

Old Lurker

Is there a time for the Rapture Saturday? Do I have to do my chores?

Captain Hate

Indiana Governor Mitch Daniels received 16 stitches Friday following a wound to his forehead

It's a message from God: Lose the combover or next time will be much worse.

matt

what time is the rapture? I'm deciding on whether to get a haircut or not.

maryrose

How can it be permissable to not pass a budget for 751 days? There is absolutely no excuse. Reid should be recalled or impeached. He also rejected a 2 trillion spending cut deal. Well, he will end up eating more than 2 trillion.

Janet

The trolls have been really ugly here lately.

clarice

OL, I know eactly what you are saying. Not far from where you were working, I was listening to a school employee playing games while she described the budgeting, knowing full well we were heading fast into the red which no one who heard her report would guess.

Rick Ballard

My understanding is that there are only a limited number of seats available on the Rapture Express and upon review of the probable seating priority I'm anticipating a rather normal day tomorrow.

narciso

I think they said it's 6 PM, Greenwhich mean time I figure

MarkO

I think it's EDT, which could mean a couple of things.

centralcal

I am seriously considering getting one of those Pay Pal accounts later today - for those of you expecting to get on the Rapture bus, you can forward all your cash to my new account.

clarice

Matt, says be sure to wear clean underwear and maybe bring along an extra pair.
He's full of good ideas at his website.

Jack is Back!

Watching Bibi v. Barry today, it looked like Barry would have loved to be on the Rapture Bus then to be there getting smacked around by a real intellect that knows how to double-tap his opponent and save hostages lives. And he did it without once using the personal pronoun. Whereas Barry is the master assassin of using the personal pronoun. He is loaded with I and me whereas Bibi is loaded with WE as in his country of true survivors. If this had been a fight it would have been called at the weigh in.

Danube of Thought

Obama has only himself to blame for being publicly humiliated by a foreign head of state in the Oval Office. He asked for it, and he got it.

Extraneus

Regarding PayPal: Of potential interest to anyone with teenagers, I discovered that they offer something called a "Student Account."

You can set these up for each of your kids, and put money into the account that they can spend online. In addition, PayPal provides a MasterCard debit card, for which the prodigal kid in question can create a PIN and use to purchase items anywhere a debit card can be used.

Since your own account can be tied to a bank account or credit card, you can easily transfer money into the kid's account, including scheduled transfers.

I've set my son up so that half of his allowance goes into his PayPal account, while the other half goes into his savings account (which he can't access independently). I found that he didn't know the value of a dollar as well as I assumed he did until after he spent the initial transfer amount and then had to wait for his next week's allowance. Now he has to wait until his balance recovers before he can spend any more money.

Otherwise, he can sell something on eBay, and have the proceeds go into his PayPal account. So now he's trading old bats, baseball cards, video games, etc. It seems like an excellent way to introduce young people to the real world.

Extraneus

And he did it without once using the personal pronoun.

Or a teleprompter.

clarice

He has played that game once too often, DoT..Making untenable demands and assertions before an opponent who he thinks will be in no position to respond. (Remember how he treated Ryan? Or the SCOTUS at the SOTU?)

Game, set,match.

Hard ass versus Jiveass.

centralcal

I only saw still photos (while at work) of Obama's face. The one video clip was close in on Bibi. Just now, FNC showed a clip - very close up of Barry. Ooohh - hateful eyes!

Interesting too, how Netanyahu spoke without notes or Totus, at length, without a single stutter.

Pops

"""when the Congress can very easily speak for and defend its own interests by exercising, for example, its power of the purse."""

The problem is Obama has taken away Congrersses purse.

-Obama is using funds to attack Libya which were not appropriated for that purpose.

- Obama never requested funding for his war on Libya.

- Even Congresses limitations placed on Obama through the debt ceiling have not stopped Obama from spending, spending, spending. geitner says we've hit the debt ceiling, but thats not stpping us, were still spending!!

Just what Control to you propose Congress has?? If they pass a bill rescinding funding, he'll just veto it, because no bill was ever passed providing funding.

Ignatz

--The trolls have been really ugly here lately.--

Nothing like a little anti-Jewish hysteria to get the bigots' juices flowing.
I hope people will reread Leo's 5:05PM to remind themselves just how thin and phony the veneer of "anti-Zionist criticism of Israel" is that covers the real anti Semitic bigotry underneath.
The only thing missing was accusing Jews of murdering Christ.

rse

DOT-

Thanks for remembering Bibi's brother. I was going to mention that as well.

News from the front lines-The very diverse local high school is the high school of choice for 3 different Jewish private schools that stop after 8th. Daughter says yesterday's speech broke through the "whatever" teenage cloud and that students were enraged.

Rocco-Bracey was quite the flack to create "Nothing wrong here. Move along" quotes that the media would then pick up.

I was not aware of his time at Indiana but I know who and what he would have been involved with then. Click goes that puzzle piece.

Thanks so much for thinking of me.

Finished my Radical Democracy primer. Explains much of why electing a community organizer was such a bad idea. Someone trained to create antagonisms and look for new social rupture points to exploit cannot think in terms of uniting a diverse country.

The other really troubling quote had to do with liberty as a negative right that sounded just like what Obama said before he was well known.

MCL

The republicans need to be asking "Where's the Budget?" loud and often. The dems are afraid to produce one, and if they aren't called on it, they probably won't produce one next year either.

maryrose

clarice:
So true about Obama thinking he can do or say anything without repercussions.
Game Set Match-Bibi

MarkO

Drudge:

THURSDAY: OBAMA: 'We believe the borders of Israel and Palestine should be based on the 1967 lines'...

TUESDAY: Q: 'There's a draft of the speech floating around that says the president will urge Israel to withdraw to the pre-1967 borders'...

CARNEY: 'That report is completely false'...

maryrose

MCL:
They won't reveal their budget now because supposedly they are waiting for the Biden Commission. Between you and me I don't believe they actually have one.They do lie afterall.They are also afraid anything released will be attacked so our elected reps sit and do nothing except go on a break again next week.

Jack is Back!

Clarice,

Great headline for the next pieces: Hard Ass v. Jive Ass and use that picture Janet provided. Lets bring back the raid on Entebbe versus the raid on Abbottabad and compare - Shazar v. Obama in words. No SEALS, no stealth helo's, no GPS, etc. Just a country full of survivors who have said "never again". This is what the left and especially people like Chicago thugs just do not understand about Israel - wha the hell happened in Europe between 1933 and 1945. Never again. Never again. Get it Barry?

Pops

Someone needs to fully explain what 'power of the purse' Congress has to make Obama stop bombing people we are not at war with?

Please explain how Congress does that without having to have Obama sign the bill????

clarice

I was thinking of something along those lines though the editor is rather conservative about such things.

One of the theories I have about O is that social studies and liberal arts professors cultivate kids who offer up unconventional theories, without actually compelling them to make their case persuasively--it's the original thought that counts. I think O ignored Hillary and others when he made that ridiculous speech because it was well ORIGINAL. I don't think he had any notion of how STUPID it was.Not everyone grades like Gates or Pivens or West do.

anduril

Hmmmm. I see that while I've been away the fundamentalists have been at play. Here's something from a world class scholar (N. T. Wright) to try to wrap your minds around. The excerpt is from his ROMANS AND THE THEOLOGY OF PAUL, pp 24-25, readily available on the web. I will simply add for my own part that he is entirely and very obviously correct regarding the translation of "kai houtws" (excuse the transliteration). This isn't the first time that mistranslations of Paul have been used to support distinctly non-Christian interpretations of Paul--not that fundamentalism has anything to do with Christianity. Here it is:


What then of the “normal” reading of Romans 11, in which critical scholarship and fundamentalism have, for once, joined forces, suggesting that Paul here predicts a large-scale last-minute salvation of (more or less) all ethnic Jews? I have argued at length against this reading in The Climax of the Covenant, and here wish to make two points only.

First, the rhetorical thrust of the passage seems to me clearly to have to do with Paul’s missionary plans (cf. 10:14-18). His whole argument, I have suggested, is that the gospel is “for the Jew first and equally for the Greek.” He is stressing, to a potentially anti-Jewish Roman church, that there can be no lapsing back into an inverted system of national privilege. He desires above all that the Roman church should understand his mission (for which he wanted Rome as his new base) in terms of the Jew-plus-Gentile strategy he intended to adopt, through which alone there could spring up the Jew-plus-Gentile church, through which alone the new, united humanity, about which Paul cared so passionately, could be evidenced. The Roman church must not allow the latent, and sometimes visible, anti-Jewish sentiment in the proud pagan capital to infect them as Christians. The creator has not cut off his ancient people so that now there would only be a dwindling Jewish remnant, and soon a Gentiles-only church. The remnant is emphatically not a small minority clinging successfully to ethnic privilege but a remnant “chosen by grace” and hence not “by works [of Torah]” (1 l:5f.). If such a remnant exists, it can increase; Israel’s god longs for it to increase; Paul’s very Gentile mission is designed partly to help it increase, by the process of Israel’s “jealousy” at seeing its own privileges being enjoyed by others. Paul’s great hope, in writing Romans, is (negatively) to quash any potential Gentile-Christian arrogance against Israel, and (positively) to enlist the Roman church’s enthusiastic and comprehending support for the fully-orbed missionary program which he intends to implement both in the capital itself and also around the western Mediterranean.

Second, the salvation of “all Israel” (11:26) does not refer to an event expected to take place at the “parousia.” It has become customary to say, with E. P. Sanders, that Paul took the normal Jewish expectation and reversed it. Jewish “restoration eschatology” envisaged that Israel would be restored first, and that then the Gentiles would come to share the blessing. According to Sanders, Paul pragmatically reversed this order: now, it seemed, the Gentiles would come in first, and then Israel. What this reading ignores is that, for Paul, the restoration of Israel had already happened in the resurrection of Jesus, the representative Messiah. The texts he calls upon are the very ones that speak ofGentiles hearing the word of the Lord consequent upon the restoration of Israel. He evokes, in Rom ll:26b, not only Isa 59:20 but also, and perhaps more importantly, Isa 2:3 and/or Mic 4:2. When Zion is restored, the word of the Lord will flow from it to the nations: now, Zion has been restored in Jesus the Messiah, so that the word of salvation consists of Jesus himself, as Redeemer, coming from “Zion” to bless the nations. And the quotation from Jer 31:33 that appears in 11:27 is emphatically a prediction of the new covenant. Paul is not suggesting for a moment that Jews can enjoy a private covenantal blessing which still depends on a special, privileged, ethnic state. Rather, he is insisting that, within the renewed covenant now established in Christ and the Spirit, Jews are of course welcome alongside Gentiles. The "kai houtws" at the start of v. 26 does not mean “and then,” but “and so,” “and in this manner.” This, Paul is saying, is how the covenant god will save his (polemically redefined) “all Israel.” As a result of the Gentile mission, Israel will be brought to see “its” blessings, focused on its Messiah according to the flesh, now given freely to Gentiles; and Israel will want to come back and share in them itself.

Jane

Hard ass versus Jiveass.

Indeed

maryrose

Obama probably got all D"s in history and economics. How is it possible for one person to screw up every speech by alienating or insulting someone every single time. And Yes the WH wanted Obama to go first and he is paying dearly for his ignorance and ineptitude,

(Another) Barbara

“he was standing near a door. The door suddenly swung open and struck the governor in the forehead.”

Bet it was the door knob that hit his forehead.

Frau Backofen

Obama getting wee-wee'd up again: 'We believe the borders of Israel and Palestine should be based on the 1967 lines'...

What's this we carp? Why not use his usual "I" carp?

Extraneus

It appears that the MSM is feeling forced to report on Netanyahu's comments, which they're doing in small bites, kicking and screaming the whole way. Maybe it's my own inability, but I wasn't able to find the actual video on multiple MSM sites that I visited, or the full transcript. (Does anyone have a link to that?)

As to the "Right of Return" part of the lecture, I still haven't seen any reference to Netanyahu's explanation that there were two refugee crises after 1948: Equal numbers of Jews and Palestinians were displaced, but Israel accepted all of the Jews who were forced from Arab lands, while the Arabs have yet to accept the Palestinian refugees.

Maybe I just missed it, but this seemed pretty rational on Netanyahu's part, and hard to argue with.

MarkO

There's a nasty rumor that the current Mrs. Daniels gently pushed the door open.

clarice

Bet you're right, AB--It's a weird story.

Pops

The bottom line problem between Israel and the Arabs is that the arabs never stop fighting a real war.

You want the 67 borders, then lets have a 67 war and fight this out. Where ever the fighting ends is the new border, period.

There is NO SUCH thing as a Palestinian. Palestinians was a marketing term. The simple fact is the Arabs could have gotten rid of the 'refugees' long ago, they have more then enough land, get over it.

You want to continue to fight about it, then we are taking the gloves off and you will get a taste of what Osama just got.

Once we see Abbas and his Hamas buddies running daily one step ahead of the Reaper drones, then they will get serious about peace.

You cannot negotiate with people who think the way to get to heaven is to kill you - you have to just send them to heaven without killing you, period, end of story.

Pops

We just signed a completely effective peace deal with Bin Laden and he hasn't broken it yet...two weeks, he hasn't attacked anyone....you can argue with success.

Elliott

Gone In Sixty Days

Is that TM's entry in the Strauss-Kahn flight pool?

Captain Hate

Not everyone grades like Gates or Pivens or West do.

The idea of West grading students is difficult for me to imagine being done well at all.

anduril

I see that no one is paying enough attention to me, so it's time to cut and paste another few pages of meaningless bullshit from Wikipedia:

Narcissistic personality disorder (NPD) is a personality disorder.[1]

The narcissist is described as being excessively preoccupied with issues of personal adequacy, power, prestige and vanity.[2] Narcissistic personality disorder is closely linked to self-centeredness.

The cause of this disorder is unknown, according to Groopman and Cooper. However, they list the following factors identified by various researchers as possibilities.[3]

* An oversensitive temperament at birth is the main symptomatic chronic form
* Being praised for perceived exceptional looks or talents by adults
* Excessive admiration that is never balanced with realistic feedback
* Excessive praise for good behaviors or excessive criticism for poor behaviors in childhood
* Overindulgence and overvaluation by parents
* Severe emotional abuse in childhood
* Unpredictable or unreliable caregiving from parents
* Valued by parents as a means to regulate their own self-esteem

Some narcissistic traits are common and a normal developmental phase. When these traits are compounded by a failure of the interpersonal environment and continue into adulthood, they may intensify to the point where NPD is diagnosed.[4] Some psychotherapists believe that the etiology of the disorder is, in Freudian terms, the result of fixation to early childhood development.[5] If a child does not receive sufficient recognition for their talents during about ages 3–7 they will never mature and continue to be in the narcissistic early development stage. It has been suggested[5] that NPD may be exacerbated by the onset of aging and the physical, mental, and occupational restrictions it imposes, as can most personality traits.[6][dubious – discuss]

A 1994 study by Gabbard and Twemlow[7] reports that histories of incest, especially mother-son incest, are associated with NPD in some male patients.
[edit] Theories

Pathological narcissism occurs in a spectrum of severity. In its more extreme forms, it is narcissistic personality disorder (NPD). NPD is considered to result from a person's belief that they are flawed in a way that makes them fundamentally unacceptable to others.[8] This belief is held below the person's conscious awareness; such a person would, if questioned, typically deny thinking such a thing. In order to protect themselves against the intolerably painful rejection and isolation that (they imagine) would follow if others recognised their (perceived) defective nature, such people make strong attempts to control others’ views of them and behavior towards them.

Pathological narcissism can develop from an impairment in the quality of the person's relationship with their primary caregivers, usually their parents, in that the parents were unable to form a healthy and empathic attachment to them.[citation needed] This results in the child's conception of himself/herself as unimportant and unconnected to others. The child typically comes to believe they have some personality defect that makes them unvalued and unwanted.[9]

Narcissistic personality disorder is isolating, disenfranchising, painful, and formidable for those living with it and often those who are in a relationship with them. Distinctions need to be made among those who have NPD because not every person with NPD is the same. Even with similar core issues, the way in which one's individual narcissism manifests itself in his or her relationships varies.[citation needed]

To the extent that people are pathologically narcissistic, they can be controlling, blaming, self-absorbed, intolerant of others’ views, unaware of others' needs and of the effects of their behavior on others, and insistent that others see them as they wish to be seen.[6]

People who are overly narcissistic commonly feel rejected, humiliated and threatened when criticised. To protect themselves from these dangers, they often react with disdain, rage, and/or defiance to any slight criticism, real or imagined.[10] To avoid such situations, some narcissistic people withdraw socially and may feign modesty or humility. In cases where the narcissistic personality-disordered individual feels a lack of admiration, adulation, attention and affirmation, he/she may also manifest wishes to be feared and to be notorious (narcissistic supply).

Although individuals with NPD are often ambitious and capable, the inability to tolerate setbacks, disagreements or criticism, along with lack of empathy, make it difficult for such individuals to work cooperatively with others or to maintain long-term professional achievements.[11] With narcissistic personality disorder, the individual's self-perceived fantastic grandiosity, often coupled with a hypomanic mood, is typically not commensurate with his or her real accomplishments.

The exploitativeness, sense of entitlement, lack of empathy, disregard for others, and constant need for attention inherent in NPD adversely affect interpersonal relationships.
[edit] Splitting
Main article: Splitting (psychology)

People who are diagnosed with narcissistic personality disorder use splitting as a central defense mechanism. They do this to preserve their self-esteem, by seeing the self as purely good and the others as purely bad. The use of splitting also implies the use of other defense mechanisms, namely devaluation, idealization and denial.[12]
[edit] Relationship to shame

It has been suggested that narcissistic personality disorder may be related to defenses against shame.[13]

Psychiatrist Glen Gabbard suggested NPD could be broken down into two subtypes.[14] He saw the "oblivious" subtype as being grandiose, arrogant, and thick-skinned and the "hypervigilant" subtype as being easily hurt, oversensitive, and ashamed. In his view, the oblivious subtype presents for admiration, envy, and appreciation a powerful, grandiose self that is the antithesis of a weak internalized self, which hides in shame, while the hypervigilant subtype neutralizes devaluation by seeing others as unjust abusers.

Dr. Jeffrey Young, who coined the term "Schema Therapy", a technique originally developed by psychiatrist Aaron T. Beck (1979), also links NPD and shame. He sees the so-called Defectiveness Schema as a core schema of NPD, along with the Emotional Deprivation and Entitlement Schemas.[15]

anduril

Further education for you backwater, ignorant retards from the font of all my wisdom, Wikipedia:

Diagnosis
[edit] DSM-IV-TR 301.81

The Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders fourth edition, DSM IV-TR, a widely used manual for diagnosing mental disorders, defines narcissistic personality disorder (in Axis II Cluster B) as:[1]

A pervasive pattern of grandiosity (in fantasy or behavior), need for admiration, and lack of empathy, beginning by early adulthood and present in a variety of contexts, as indicated by five (or more) of the following:

1. Has a grandiose sense of self-importance (e.g., exaggerates achievements and talents, expects to be recognized as superior without commensurate achievements)
2. Is preoccupied with fantasies of unlimited success, power, brilliance, beauty, or ideal love
3. Believes that he or she is "special" and unique and can only be understood by, or should associate with, other special or high-status people (or institutions)
4. Requires excessive admiration
5. Has a sense of entitlement, i.e., unreasonable expectations of especially favorable treatment or automatic compliance with his or her expectations
6. Is interpersonally exploitative, i.e., takes advantage of others to achieve his or her own ends
7. Lacks empathy: is unwilling to recognize or identify with the feelings and needs of others
8. Is often envious of others or believes others are envious of him or her
9. Shows arrogant, haughty behaviors or attitudes

It is also a requirement of DSM-IV that a diagnosis of any specific personality disorder also satisfies a set of general personality disorder criteria.

Pointers

Thomas suggests the following pointers may indicate the presence of someone with narcissistic personality disorder.

* They expect others to do the day-to-day chores as they feel too important to waste their time on common things.
* They very rarely talk about their inner life - for example their memories and dreams.
* There tends to be a higher level of stress with people who work with or interact with a narcissist, which in turn increases absenteeism and staff turnover.
* They feel that rules at work don't apply to them.
* Their sense of self-importance and lack of empathy means that they will often interrupt the conversation of others.
* They get impatient and restless when the topic of conversation is about someone else, and not about them.
* They constantly use "I", "me" and "my" when they talk.
* They lack empathy and this colours everything they do.
* They love to delegate work, and then interfere by micromanaging it. If it goes well they take the credit (plagiarism); if it goes badly, they blame the person they delegated it to.
* Blame others for their actions and misfortunes.
* During a conversation, no matter what topic is being discussed, they usually end up talking about themselves.
* They will always cheat whenever they think they will get away with it.
* Virtually all their ideas or ways of behaving in a given situation are taken from others (mirroring).[21]

matt

aren't they West Jordanians anyway?

So I wonder if the press will savage that lying, sniveling little bastard tomorrow morning or if they will just let it pass?

What an appropriate name for such a schmuck. Carney.....there's a sideshow somewhere in his family tree.....

Ignatz

Whether you take Romans 11:26 to mean the Jewish people in its entirety will be saved or only the spiritual Israel of believing Jews and Gentiles, it serves as a rebuke either way to Leo's repugnant comment.

Captain Hate

The trolls have been really ugly here lately.

Engaging in gutter level Jew hating isn't very attractive. It's one thing to have honest disagreements with how Israel deals with it's national security. And it's much worse to cloak hatred for a group under a disdain for "Zionism" as a code for Jews. But to openly mock the travails of a group of people through history by perverting the narrative into something approaching The Protocols of the Elders of Zion is the sign of the type of thinking that leads to excusing anything inflicted on them, including complete extermination, as "deserving it".

Captain Hate

it's == its

Danube of Thought

Let's hear it: how many did NOT SCroll On By those two?

Rocco

"Why should the Arabs make peace? If I was an Arab leader I would never make terms with Israel. That is natural: we have taken their country ... There has been anti-Semitism, the Nazis, Hitler, Auschwitz, but was that their fault? They only see one thing: we have come here and stolen their country. Why should they accept that? They may perhaps forget in one or two generations' time, but for the moment there is no chance. So it is simple: we have to stay strong and maintain a powerful army."[4]

Hari also misattributes another quote, claiming,

Towards the end of his life, Ben Gurion wrote: "Why should the Arabs make peace? . . . We have taken their country. Sure, God promised it to us, but what does that matter to them? Our God is not theirs. We come from Israel, it’s true, but two thousand years ago, and what is that to them?" [As quoted in a New Yorker profile of Benny Morris.]

In his book, The Jewish Paradox, published in 1978 (significantly, after Ben-Gurion’s death), Nahum Goldmann claims that Ben-Gurion spoke these words. Here, Hari confuses hearsay with historical evidence.

Hari gets away with fabricating and misrepresenting quotes because the anti-Israel echo-chamber at the Independent insulates him from serious scrutiny and refutation. His columns raise the question of where to draw the line between provocative writing - which newspapers understandably seek in a columnist - and irresponsible accusations that incite hatred. Misrepresenting facts and distorting the words of the an eminent founder of the modern Jewish state in order to resurrect classic anti-Jewish canards would seem to cross that line.

http://www.camera.org/index.asp?x_print=1&x_context=6&x_article=1521

Bush IS the law

Amazing vault of insight into Paul, anduril.

Let's discuss the notion that somehow the Nation of Israel is somehow, Holy-unto-itself, especially since Divine intervention has twice allowed the unholy (Babylonians/Romans) to defile the Holy of Holies, and destroy Jerusalem.

1) 'New' Jerusalem- is this the fulfillment of the physical representation of the City of God, but located in the spiritual realm? Is spiritual fulfillment of all things corporeal the intent in discussing Jerusalem?

2) Modern-day Israel- Is there somehow a soft spot in God's heart for the Jewish adherents in toto? Or is it merely his wish they all recognize Christ as the Redeemer, and absent that, he has no regard for the cculture which abounds today?

The comments to this entry are closed.

Wilson/Plame