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May 04, 2011

Comments

Dave (in MA)

When is the next Wikileaks?

Extraneus

Apparently they'd like to keep this in the news longer.

Janet

Just terrible. He thinks he is a king...

Captain Hate

Not to worry; Duke and Duke have TOP MEN on this

 centralcal

Wikileaks. Trump. Anybody, somebody! Gawd knows the media ain't gonna do a damned thing.

MayBee

He laughably said releasing photos like this is "not who we are". It would be spiking the ball in the endzone.
Of course, releasing photos like this is exactly who we are.
And the end zone spiking will take place when he drops that wreath on Ground Zero tomorrow.

Thomas Collins

October 2012 is my prediction of the release time (perhaps by a supposed leak).

They can't handle the masses handling it.

If the masses can't handle it, why, then you've got a problem.
=========================

Appalled

Obama is the CiC. I think he has the authority, on this subject. If it bothers you, file a FOIA request. It was Panetta, in this case, who was speaking out of turn.

Of course, Obama is using the same judgement he used with respect to his birth certificate. Suggesting that there is a personal blind spot at play, here.

bolitha

I think we will see them soon.

MayBee

Suggesting that there is a personal blind spot at play, here.

Blind spot? I'd call it a deliberate desire to manipulate and control.

bolitha

Ditto, MayBee.

Instead of 'Go', Obama said 'We've gone?'

Heh, App, maybe it was Panetta and Gates and Clinton and Daley speaking out of turn. And Jarrett and Obama speaking to each other.
================

The Apologist is Appalled.

Obama's personal blind spot may be that he just doesn't see how much others see what a fake he is.
===============

Sue

Ann Compton just informed me that one of the reasons Obama isn't releasing the photo is there hasn't been a clamoring from the Arab world for its release. Didn't realize Obama was president of the Arab world.

I think the next couple of weeks will be telling.  Obviously, in charge or not, they've got to act like he is.

Heh, all those other players, including the Pakistanis, would know about an Indonesian passport.
=========

matt

the president refuses to engage in the symbolic act of raising the head of the executed to show all and warn all of the justice and power of the deed.

Instead of formalizing and creating context to rally our allies and strike fear in the hearts of our enemies, he will simply use the exercise as an election prop.

For a man who was elected much because of his use of symbology, he is craven and shows the worst tendencies of the modern liberal mind.

Who lives by the narrative dies by the narrative.

How schizzy is that, Sue? Don't release it because it will inflame the Arab world, and/or because they haven't asked for it.
==========

BB Key

Hillary is still playing the 3 AM card ...

Don't move, bud.

Heh, the Righteous Sword of the Osama's Photo hangs over Obama's head.
=============

Danube of Thought

FOIA wouldn't reach it.

Maybe "it's not who we are" is correct. Perhaps he should have said "it's not who we have now become."

In speaking of Hitler, Churchill once said "we shall stalk the Nazi bastard to his lair, and rid the earth of his shadow." And Hitler himself once observed--no doubt correctly--that if he were taken alive by the Brits they would "put me in a cage in the London zoo and squeeze me till the pips squeak." Those were the days...

OK, play it where it lies, Sucka.

Freeze.
===

MarkO

Obama's just not that smart, he's a liar and----he's a pussy.

I feel certain now that Panetta forced his hand on this.

clarice

It's of a piece with the showing of the Jihadis gruesome murders and mishandling of the corpses and our refusal to even replay the horror of 9/11 and the jumpers from the WTC.

They are free to brandish their outrages in our face for they know we won't respond brutishly and we won't respond in kind because we know to a certainty they will.

fdcol63

If anyone had any doubts, these people in the WH have just erased them. They're nothing but amateurs.

It's clear there was no planning beforehand on how to communicate any of this information after the fact, and they've compounded this error with all their cross-talk and confused and contradictory messaging.

I hope the GOP stays quiet and justs let them have more rope.

fdcol63

Here again, the WH and liberals in general highlight their hypocrisy.

They won't release the photos because, in large part, they claim we're "better than they are" and "won't stoop to their level", and are afraid of inciting Muslims to greater violence.

Yet these are the same people who continue to inculcate the claim that Islam is a religion of peace, and that morally and culturally, Muslims are on a par - or even superior - to the Christian West.

Cognitive dissonance.

maryrose

fdcol/63:
I agree with your statements. The photos are not useful to the administration at this point in time. When O can benefit in some way they will be released. Probably as part of a campaign ad to show how"tough" he is . It's all politics with him and Panetta is the man behind the scenes pushing him along the way.Leading from behind is too kind of a statement to indicate what Obama has done to our international reputation. he has destroyed it.

America, Fuck Ya!

Well,the youth figured why dems made Team America.Federal Legacies getting jobs for Federal legacies

Extraneus

The world needed to see the naked pyramid, panties-on-head horrors of Abu Graib, because that's who we are.

MarkO

Of course there was no planning. Panetta shoved it down their throats. Dragged little boy black and blue home from the golf course after only 9 holes. (Doesn't that tell you he was not in command? He did shoot 80 for the round.) He sat there and watched knowing he had, in fact, told Panetta to get UBL if he could and now there it was. No wonder he looked so small.

Get a book out about this tomorrow.

narciso

A technical point, after the experience with wikileaks, who really thinks this will be the final decision,

matt

that this president is probably the most duplicitous, lying son of a bitch who has ever held the office and decides to play more games with what is clearly in the national interest, and that even many of the republican "leadership" goes along with the charade disgusts me.

One of the critical issues between the government and the governed today is trust, and with his birth certificate shenanigans, health care bait and switch, and phony "transparency" the natural reaction of most reasonable people to much of what he says is "liar, liar, pants on fire".

He is the Great Prevaricator.

Amuck Ya!

Well, i hope nasa avoids the 'unplanned' cia powers team legacy job work.

clarice

reuters--No fire fight
ISLAMABAD (Reuters) - Photographs acquired by Reuters and taken about an hour after the U.S. assault on Osama bin Laden's compound in Abbottabad in Pakistan show three dead men lying in pools of blood, but no weapons.
The photos, taken by a Pakistani security official who entered the compound after the early morning raid on Monday, show two men dressed in traditional Pakistani garb and one in a t-shirt, with blood streaming from their ears, noses and mouths.
The official, who wished to remain anonymous, sold the pictures to Reuters.
None of the men looked like bin Laden. President Barack Obama decided not to release photos of his body because it could have incited violence and used as an al Qaeda propaganda tool, the White House said on Wednesday.

clarice

Good old Drudge:

"FLASHBACK: Obama planned release 2,000 pix of prisoner abuse...

FLASHBACK: Obama lifts photo ban on U.S. military coffins..."

Extraneus

From the other thread.

Good grief, talk about clowns. Now Senator Scott Brown is saying the picture he and others saw was not authentic.

Posted by: Sue | May 04, 2011 at 03:35 PM

Wha?

Extraneus

Steny Hoyer:

"In my opinion, there’s no--there’s no end served by releasing the picture of someone who has been killed. And I think there’s absolute proof that Osama bin Laden was in fact the person that was taken into custody, was killed in the process, in the firefight. But I don’t think there’s any necessity to release the picture.”
So there was a firefight after all?
Porchlight

The world needed to see the naked pyramid, panties-on-head horrors of Abu Graib, because that's who we are.

Ext,

It's very simple.

Photos that make US look good: bad
Photos that make US look bad: good

clarice

Gawker:
— Barack Obama has finally decided against releasing a photo of Osama bin Laden's corpse as proof of his death. But the former chief freedom of information expert for the U.S. government tells Gawker that he may not have that choice.
Up until a few moments ago, when CBS News reported Obama's decision, the Administration had issued mixed signals on whether it intended to release graphic evidence of Osama's demise. CIA director Leon Panetta stated that he expected a photo would eventually be released, while Defense Secretary Robert Gates and Secretary of State Hilary Clinton were reportedly opposed. White House Press Secretary Jay Carney said yesterday that "there are sensitivities here in terms of the appropriateness of releasing photographs of Osama bin Laden in the aftermath of this firefight."

But all the agonizing may have been for naught. According to Daniel Metcalfe, the former chief of the Department of Justice's Office of Information and Privacy—a post that effectively made him the government's top expert in the Freedom of Information Act—the odds are better than even that a FOIA lawsuit seeking the photo's release would succeed.

*** Pakistan insists there was no firefight.

Sue

Reuters has purchased photos from the Pakistanis of the other dead men at the scene. Go to Drudge.

BB Key

Question for Jay, Are the dead men in the Reuters photos muslims ? and is anyone going to be offended ?

DebinNC

I wonder if Hoyer or any Dem in Congress has even seen the pics, because I think the article quoting Republicans Rogers, Chambliss, and Haley said no Dems had viewed them.

clarice

From the same reuters piece a possible explanation on how the helos evaded detection:

"Other photos, taken hours later at between 5:21 a.m. and 6:43 a.m. show the outside of the trash-strewn compound and the wreckage of the helicopter the United States abandoned. The tail assembly is unusual, and could indicate some kind of previously unknown stealth capability."

DebinNC

Drudge ..for those interested

MarkO

Wait, wait. Don't we have to release the photo to know what's in it?

How can this man be president of the USA?

We are doomed.

Porchlight

F. Chuck tweets:

Jay Carney won't say if the narrative of the kill/capture of OBL will be updated publicly again.

Narrative...there's that word again.

Extraneus

So Scott Brown first claimed to have seen "the picture" and that, based on that, "he's definitely dead." Then he corrected that to say "The photo that I saw and that a lot of other people saw is not authentic."

Did he say who showed him the picture? Just wondering why he would come out with that first statement if it wasn't an official, trusted the source. Pretty lame on Scott's part if it wasn't.

MarkO

It was a dark and stormy night, Suddenly a pirate ship appeared on the horizon and the president hit his drive deep in the rough.

September 11 dawned a bright and cloudless day. Shit.

Here. Read this: My fellow Americans, bin Laden is dead.

sbw

As usual, the focus is on the sensitivities of the Muslim world rather than the American public.

Distinguo! I challenge whether that part of the world is best identified as the Muslim world. It is a mistaken premise to presume that those in that geographic area base their decision making on the tenets of that religion.

Appalled

1. The only reason to release the photos is prove that, yep, the guy is dead. There's no other reason.

2. The reasons not to publish are to avoid inflaming those who really want to get inflamed, and start riots in the Mideast, and hurt our reputation.

The President has to choose what is worse -- 1 or 2. That is not such an easy, no brainer, pussyfootin' choice. I think you can accuse the administration of too much public agonizing.(Though the "release" course of action was recommended by somebody now leaving the administration)But the decision is reasonable, and probably the exact same decision Bush would have reached.

Now, gven the Mideast's propensity for conspiracies, Obama is leaving himself open for an international league of "Deathers". But he has to know he is running that risk.

DebinNC

Rep. Mike Rogers, R-Mich., said on ABC's "Good Morning America" that he was concerned that the photo could be seen as a "trophy" that inflames U.S. critics.

Obama stole that phrase and used it later in the day in his Steve Kroft interview. Obama's "we don't need to spike the ball" may have been original.

Porchlight

Did he say who showed him the picture?

On another thread someone indicated that Brown may be referring to the hoax photo that went around the web.

So I fervently hope that this is a dumb mistake by Brown and that no one from the WH is showing that photo to members of Congress and claiming it is somehow official.

Porchlight

Appalled,

I still don't understand why it is more inflammatory to publish the photo than to it is to kill the guy in the first place.

He's dead. We killed him. On purpose. Why is showing a photo any risk at all?

MayBee

(Though the "release" course of action was recommended by somebody now leaving the administration)

Panetta? The guy taking over the DoD?

No, the only reason to release the photo is not to prove that he is dead. It is also because we are a nation who believes the President owes us the best information possible.
And we are a nation not trained to just accept fear-mongering as a reason we can't know something.

And balderdash that it is the same decision Bush would have reached. BUSH RELEASED SUCH PHOTOS WHENEVER THEY KILLED OR CAPTURED A HIGH VALUE TARGET.

cathyf

Sheesh -- Drudge is just brutal.

Stephanie

Anyone called dibs on Drudge, yet? ;)

Appalled

MayBee:

Excuse the brain furt. But point remains, this is not a clear, obvious, you must be stupid if you don't do one choice.

The President does not owe us corpse pictures. I don't have a constitutional right to see bits and pieces of Obama's brain and skull.

Porchlight

I don't have a constitutional right to see bits and pieces of Obama's brain and skull.

Strawman. No one is saying that you do.

Porchlight

Obama's brain and skull.

BTW, I have been using OBL mostly to avoid any possibility of mistake.

scary boot camp

Nasa should be okay New Green Lantern Trailer today.'Those who worship evil,fear my might.'Its more dream world now ,but we all know dreams are......safe and lucifer's world is not the real one....universe existence or whatever.The Priest usually does I am that evil like the lantern Corps,but he just calls himself Satan,not lucifer by name.

Appalled

So have I. I do that typo much more, the Secret Service is going to come visit my house.

Stephanie

I thought the scar cast some doubt on that brain thing?

BB Key

How about those disgusting photos at Drudge showing MO dancing ?

Porchlight

They will have a lot of houses to visit, Appalled. ;)

MayBee

Well, you don't have a constitutional right to even know he's dead, Appalled.
You do have a constitutional right to ask for the best information from your President.

clarice

NBC News & MSNBC, by Robert Windrem & Alex Johnson People in the Pakistan compound where Osama bin Laden was killed were using cell phones to communicate, creating a gaping security hole in the defenses they created to protect the al-Qaida leader, two senior U.S. officials told NBC News on Wednesday. The assault team seized five cell phones from individuals, dead and alive, in the compound, the officials said. None of the cell phones belonged to bin Laden, they said, and he did not use cell phones. (Snip) The NSA intercepted cell phone calls by the couriers and family members for months, the officials, as part of the 24/7 surveillance

HG

We got to see bits and pieces of Kennedy's skull,even the flappy skin on the back from the exit of the .22 LR.

MayBee

Appalled- he's doing something different, less transparently than Bush did. Do you think "This isn't who we are" is a good explanation, or an ass-cover?

Extraneus

But the decision is reasonable, and probably the exact same decision Bush would have reached.

If Bush would have said we got bin Laden, I would have believed it. Bush was not a liar, and I trusted him to tell the truth. Obama is a liar. For all we know, they got some other dude.

Why not let Bush review the evidence and then make a statement as to it's authenticity?

MayBee

Well, Appalled just made the "Bush" part up anyway. Bush did the exact opposite of what Appalled is imagining he would have done.

Porchlight

And IIRC the left didn't like it one bit, MayBee.

gasprices

We got to see the descrated bodies of the military.We got see jumpers and hear the splats.We got to read Clarice's pieces and she lunches with the deputy director.Whats a pic of an old dead guy in a wheelchair with IVs and an oxygen mask and a bullet through his head?

clarice

WTF?

Stephanie

So much for that "unity" meme.

LUN

lyle

Why not let Bush review the evidence and then make a statement as to it's authenticity?

It is to laugh.

narciso

Well that's typical of Air America's Mike Malloy, a sample:

http://www.mediaite.com/online/extreme-left-talk-radio-host-claims-dick-cheney-was-responsible-for-911/

Appalled

MayBee:

I think whatever decision Obama takes would be justifiable. One choice encourages conspiracy theorists. The other choice is to present something that looks like a desecration of a dead person.

Frankly, there is precedent for taking pictures of shot up evil people. (Mussolini comes to mind). There is also a tradition that it is not proper to display the executed, no matter what their crimes.

This is a pick your poison decision. Either choice has disadvantages and consequences.

windansea

appalled is trying to rewrite history

Saddam's sons death photos were released by US and his hanging was broadcast live

the whole release the photos clusterfark is just a game anyway, boy genius and advisors need to milk this for all its worth

MayBee

The other choice is to present something that looks like a desecration of a dead person.

Frankly, there is precedent for taking pictures of shot up evil people. (Mussolini comes to mind). There is also a tradition that it is not proper to display the executed, no matter what their crimes.

Desecration of a dead person? Desecration?

Google Pulitzer Prize Iraq Photos. Tell me what the rules are for not displaying photos of the executed.

clarice

I think there will be a successful FOIA claim filed and soon demanding the picture's release.

maryrose

I believe as a citizen of these United States I am entitled to see a picture showing Bin Laden dead to know that our enemy number 1 is gone.It may not be a constitutional right but I expect more from the most transparent administration Evah...

lyle

Well, we can call this a "teachable moment" for us wingnuts. See, extra-judicial assassinations in another sovereign nation are just jim dandy...with the right party in the White House. Get over yourselves, you neocons!

Extraneus
"So when does Seal Unit 6, or whatever it's called, drop in on George Bush? Bush was responsible for a lot more death, innocent death, than bin Laden. Wasn't he, or am I wrong here?," Liberal radio talk show host Mike Malloy said on his show Monday evening.
Stephanie

How is a one photo of a dead man a display? Is it slated for Macy's window in NY?

If they put shit on the picture and hung it up in a gallery, these same people would call it art. IF he were a Christian or a Jew.

Janet

Frankly, there is precedent for taking pictures of shot up evil people.

I pick this poison. I agree with Matt @ 3:56...and like MarkO always points out, the one thing we DO know is that Obama is a liar.

Ranger

Instapundit's take:

This seems like a mistake to me, and the double-shuffle of contradictory messages that has led up to this decision hasn’t looked ready for prime time. As Stephen Green notes below, the contrast between the well-run military side of this operation, and the shaky White House PR side, has been quite striking.

maryrose

Our military is the best ever, This WH -not so much...

DebinNC

Sen. Lindsey Graham, R-SC, called the decision a "mistake." "The whole purpose of sending our soldiers into the compound, rather than an aerial bombardment, was to obtain indisputable proof of bin Laden's death," he said.

Lord, help me. Lindsey and I agree on something. I've been wondering about that disconnect for two days.

MayBee

LUN for a Pulitzer Prize winning photo (not the Fallujah Contractors)

Or look at the Guardian and Reuters right now to see the other men who were killed with OBL.

There is NO tradition that it is not proper to display photos of the executed.

lyle

"Bush was responsible for a lot more death, innocent death, than bin Laden. Wasn't he, or am I wrong here?,"

Sure, Mike, and your hero, Zero, plays judge, jury, and executioner with more drone attacks in two and half years than all of the evil Bush's time in office and you're just fine with that, huh?

What an asshole.

Barbara
WTF?

WTF indeed! He's the one who is "spiking the ball in the end zone" with the Wellstonian hoopla that is planned for tomorrow at Ground Zero.

Americans paid for those photos with their blood.They belong to us!

Stephanie

I wondered about that disconnect, too. It's not like they couldn't grab DNA samples from the remains left behind like they did at Ground Zero and the Pentagon. Those sites were much more robust than the bombed out remains of that compound would be.

Donald

Well Apalled, I think Cranky-D nailed it pretty well. What doesn't inflame these people?

Ther is no way in hell that those pictures aren't coming out.

Something stinks in the white house as per usual.

Donald

Mike Malloy used to work at WSB 750AM. He was there a little before and a little after Neal Boortz got there.

Neal told me he was the worst person he had ever met, and he had to deal with Don King in fight negotiations.

Dave Paul on the other hand was cool.

DebinNC

Malloy was at WSB when the Fairness Doctrine demanded stations have nuts like him on. WSB finally got Malloy to decamp for CA by putting him on in the wee hours of the morning and, since no one was crazy enough to buy ads during his show, I think Malloy ended up paying WSB to air him, not vice versa.

maryrose

I went to Drudge and then to the Reuters site but the pictures were taken down and many poters were complaining about it. We now have censorship of the media with this administration. Something is false and fibbed about in this operation. Our military has performed admirably, our POTUS as usual has besmirched the occasion.

 centralcal

Someone on Twitter is reporting that Clinton was invited to join Obama at Ground Zero tomorrow and also declined.

No one wants to be part of his crass campaign stop.

Extraneus

"Keep in mind that we are absolutely certain that this was him. We've done DNA sampling and testing. And so there is no doubt that we killed Osama bin Laden." --Obama during today's '60 Minutes' interview.

Have they said when they got the DNA results? Did they do this analysis on the USS Vinson (where they just happened to have DNA to compare to) before they dumped the body, or did they keep some samples, do the analysis back at the FBI lab, and they're saying that they have the results now?

The former seems unlikely. Anyone know how quickly DNA matches can be done, best-case? Did they compare the new samples to bin Laden's DNA or to his late half-sister's?

Sorry, I just don't trust liars.

 centralcal

maryrose: Weasel Zippers has the photos.

maryrose

centracal:
It is such a crass distasteful victory lap by Obama that normal people with class won't go near it. Once again Obama hits the wrong note in an effort to make this event all about himself. Whose dumb idea was this anyway?Jarrett's or Moochelle's?

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