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May 04, 2011

Comments

Sue

OMG. Hillary is saying that it was allergies, not anguish, we see in the photo released from the sit room. Look at her.

fdcol63

Personally, I think there's such a schism between some elements of the Pak gov't and the Pak ISI / military that it's quite possible that the SEALs killed some Pak ISI/military who were providing security for OBL in the compound.

DebinNC

Me too, cc. They cited no sources of course.

Elsewhere, Eric Holder finds every aspect of the shoot-to-kill raid legal but seems to be telling the NCAA that their failure to have a college football playoff may land them in court.

Danube of Thought

Unexpected:

The number of claims for U.S. unemployment benefits unexpectedly rose last week, pushed up by auto-plant shutdowns and other unusual events that seasonal variations failed to take into account, the Labor Department said. Applications for jobless benefits jumped by 43,000 to 474,000 in the week ended April 30, the most since August, Labor Department figures showed today.
Danube of Thought

Minus 9 at Raz today; 49 overall.

narciso

Is this what you were referring to JiB,

Sue

Two mid-level al Qaeda leaders were killed in Yemen on Thursday in a remote province where al Qaeda is active,

So. Does this lend credence to the 'they took Osama alive' meme?

Jack is Back!

narciso,

That's it. I forgot to paste it in the LUN. Thanks for the cover.

But you had to listen to this guy in the interview. Sharp as a tack and a no BS type. Best explication of what went down and why it went down I have heard. There is no fog of war just no one in this WH has any idea of what these guys did, can do and will do.

Janet

So. Does this lend credence to the 'they took Osama alive' meme?

I know our military has been operating in Yemen for awhile.

narciso

They found the guy, they killed him, as Sue would say, 'he needed killing' he was due no deference, and every attempt made, just makes
us look like the weak horse. I'm glad the VF
crew is getting a clue, although their shishi
every other day declamations against the warrior code, makes it doubful.

fdcol63

Just the possibility that the US got its hands on some great intel ... either through OBL if still alive or from whatever information was in his compound during the raid .... is probably causing many AQ leaders to be very nervous, communicate, and to move around.

This makes it easier to flush them out of their hidey holes and whack them.

MayBee

DoT- NBC reporting no prolonged firefight. The SEALS did most of the shooting.

As we suspected. I feel like I' could be on CSI:Abbottabad.

MayBee

NBC calls it a Precision clearing operation. Ha! I'm a military genius.

Sue

I detest Charles Barkley (I misspelled his last name last night) most of the time. But when he comes up with one liners, they are doozies....

“When you’re guarding Dirk Nowitzki, all you need is a cigarette and a blindfold.”

That's all from me on the Mavs until Friday night. Go Mavs!

fdcol63

I wish we had a president who would say just this:

"We found OBL in Pakistan where he's been hiding in plain sight for 6 years, very near a major Pakistani military academy, and we exercised our right to go in and kill the bastard. We killed him, whether or not he resisted, with our without weapons at hand, and we killed others who were with him. The world is better off, and if you have a problem with it, then screw you. And don't ever forget this: No matter how long it takes, we'll hunt down and kill every terrorist and terrorist leader who attacks us, especially those who kill innocent American civilians in our Homeland.

Sue

fdcol63,

Can I elect you president?

clarice

You are, MayBee. I've always said that about you--"military genius"

Neo

Asked why they had not checked out a building so close a major military facility the ISI said that the compound had actually been raided when the house was under construction in 2003 when the authorities believed an Al Qaeda operative Abu Faraj Al Libbi was there. On that occasion he escaped.

MayBee

Thanks, clarice. I should probably write to the SEALS and volunteer to become an advisor or something.

jimmyk

But when he comes up with one liners, they are doozies....

I confess I don't quite get that one (not following b-ball that closely). My favorite Barkley line comes from his mother criticized him for being a Republican (he may no longer be one):

Mom: Charles, how could you? They only care about rich people!
Charles: But Mom, I am rich.

clarice

MayBee, I think that job is too big for only one woman...Just saying.


more bad news about lame Reps.http://legalinsurrection.blogspot.com/2011/05/key-republicans-clear-obama-to-pack.html

Danube of Thought

Or when he threw some drunk through a window after being hassled in a bar: "He was lucky we was on the first floor."

Ignatz

--the ISI said that the compound had actually been raided when the house was under construction in 2003 when the authorities believed an Al Qaeda operative Abu Faraj Al Libbi was there. On that occasion he escaped.--

And what possible reason could they have to check the place again in the succeeding 8 years when a terrorist was there the first time they looked?

cathyf
It just seems they keep coming up with a "new" story putting guns in his hands, or within reach, etc. Is it so important to them that bin Laden have a weapon to fight back?
Didn't OBL brag at some point that he slept in a suicide vest and wouldn't be taken alive? It's completely plausible going in to worry that the house was booby-trapped and that if they gave OBL any time to figure out what was happening then they would all get blown up.

Osama bin Laden is the man who taught the world that box cutters and shoes are weapons of mass destruction. There is simply no circumstance that you could have decided that he was unarmed, except in hindsight after complete examination of his corpse.

cathyf
I also note that Tapper is confirming, without sourcing, that the daughter saw bin Laden shot.
Quick, let's start the rumor that she saw him get shot because she was in the bed with him.
fdcol63

" ... because she was in the bed with him ..."

Holding the goat.

Danube of Thought

Good one, cathyf.

jimmyk

Holding the goat.

LOL. Now we know why Barry doesn't want to release the pictures. Ba-a-ah!

clarice

AP:LAMABAD – Pakistan's army says U.S. military personnel in the country will be reduced to the "minimum essential" levels.
Thursday's army statement gives no details, but it comes amid Pakistani anger over the American raid that killed Osama bin Laden on Monday.
U.S. officials were not immediately available for comment.
The statement also says that if the United States launches a similar raid in the future then the army and intelligence services will review their ties with Washington.
The statement is the first by the army since Monday's raid.


***What BS..Cut them off now.

centralcal

Okay, I am off to work.

While, after some additional thought, I may change my mind, I rather like the idea that Muslims around the world think we killed OBL in "cold blood." You damned right, we did. And, if you are a terrorist, you better fear you're next.

narciso

Ah, the Top Men of Duke and Duke, with the addition of Penelope, for a little variety
strike again, who cares that Reid was lobbying him,

Porchlight

So does the country feel like the narrative is a scam, or just the people who pay attention.

Jane, just the people who are paying attention. However in this case I would say that includes a sizable subset of the MSM commentariat who are admitting that the PR on this has been something of a disaster.

Ignatz

--LAMABAD--

GOATGOOD, per fdcol's 10:34.

Porchlight

It just seems they keep coming up with a "new" story putting guns in his hands, or within reach, etc. Is it so important to them that bin Laden have a weapon to fight back?

In his Sunday speech Obama said there was a firefight, so now they have to come up with a firefight.

In addition, even though I personally do not care in the least, there are leftists who do not like the idea of a targeted kill of an unarmed man with no possibility of capture. These are the same people who want to close Gitmo, try KSM in Manhattan and who call SEAL Team Six 'Cheney's assassination squad.' I am pretty sure Jarrett and Holder are in their ranks, as was Obama; actually he probably still is, when he isn't campaigning.

clarice

HEH, Iggy (For some reason when I use the mouse on my Apple it has a tendency to drop the first letter or two and I don't always catch it.)

Porchlight

Re: Clinton's turning down the Ground Zero invite. As others have pointed out this was probably Hillary, Gates & Panetta vs. Jarrett and Obama. Panetta is a Clintonista. If Obama didn't agree to the raid on Panetta's terms, the information would eventually be leaked (on Panetta's schedule, but sometime before November 2012) that Obama knew where bin Laden was for months, but failed to act.

Thus Obama's hand was forced. A rare Clinton victory in the Obama administration.

Also, Bubba was HQed in New York for many years and Hillary is a former NY Senator. They know this is all for show and I think they genuinely care about New Yorkers enough to not want any part of it.

narciso

You know, Cathy, I've been thinking that since I heard about how things were down in the compound, it does have an odd Branch Dividian or Warren Jeff feel about it.

The unmitigated nerve of them, they sheltered Obama for how many years, they sent the son of one of their generals to blow up Times Square, and they are dictating terms to us, And then people wonder if Raymond Davis was overreacting.

Janet

Perhaps OBL didn't know it was his daughter or how she got in his bed...or even how she came to be?

"The U.S. army medic also
told members of the research unit that she and her colleagues had to explain to a local (Afghan)man how to get his wife pregnant.
The report said: "When it was explained to him what was necessary, he reacted with disgust and asked, 'How could one feel desire to be with a woman, who God has made unclean, when one could be with a man, who is clean? Surely this must be wrong.'"



Captain Hate

McCain is engaged in the "spring offensive" to get back in the MFM's good graces; leave it to The Mav to detect when they're vulnerable because of Bammy's inability to come up with a suitable narrative that a third grader would believe. Scotty Centerfold is a mere piker when it comes to publicity mongering as done by the master.

Thomas Collins

Sheltered Osama, narciso?

Rick Ballard

How are Predator strikes different than OBL's exit? The President has been using rabid dog ROE for two years (vide Mohametan Somali Sea Scout episode), whether by Predator or SEAL team, and he is to be commended for doing so.

This isn't a Law and Order episode.

fdcol63

Janet, unfortunately someone's breeding these Muslim terrorists.

fdcol63

I'm okay with nuking Pakistan. We can increase the probability of kill if we hit them during the massive jihadi riots that are starting now over the raid.

I doubt India would complain too much.

Ignatz

Bill Clinton is a sharp politician and despite Barry's claim that "we don't spike the football" he knows this week long victory lap by Barry is precisely that and he knows how it looks; it looks like Barry doesn't spike the football in the other team's face, he spikes it in the face of his real enemies, his domestic political opposition, while simultaneously blabbing about unity.
Barry is some kind of adept for his cynicism to make BillyJeff look like Pollyana.
Having said all that, the Hot Springs flim flam man will now probably show up last minute at Barry's ring toss wreath laying today and make me a liar.

narciso

I'll exempt Kayani and Iqbal, since they were
at the planning meeting, but how could the head of the Pakistani 2nd Army, for instance, not know.

Sue

Rick,

Exactly. He needed killin'. And that is all that Obama should be saying to anyone objecting to our methods.

Captain Hate

Iggy it really pained me to say something positive about the red-nosed predator; although my only other benchmark went all the way back to 1993. Him staying away from the allure of the limelight, and post celebration cooch-hounding, is very unusual.

Thomas Collins

Sue, I think we owe the world a full explanation for our actions. See LUN for what I mean (I think this explanation could best be made in the middle of a UN General Assembly meeting).

Sue

Thomas,

Works for me. The only problem I see is Obama is typically shooting us the finger, not the world.

Captain Hate

Austin 3:16 - I just whupped your ass

Extraneus

A key group of Republican Senators, led by Lidsey Graham and Lamar Alexander, vigorously argued against opposing cloture (i.e., a filibuster) because it would set a bad precedent for future Republican nominees if and when a there is a Republican President.

What f'n fools.

Jack is Back!

This is really become the proverbial "dead horse". I am waiting for the other shoe to drop. Something akin to the WH Insider story about how Jarrett kept stalling and Panetta had to be the man in the house. The more and more redacts that come out, the WH Insider's tale of woe seems spot on to me.

Has anyone seen a detailed timeline of actions, events, persons being moved around since last August when they started to plan this OP? It would be interesting to see if there are any pieces out of place during that time.

narciso

A strange world we live in, when this third rate used car salesman from Yoknapatawah county, is considered anything less than
properly dismissed, but then again, he was
'an uncommonly good liar'

Ignatz

Oil down over $5 bucks today after falling around $4 earlier this week. Gold below $1,500 and all commodities getting soaked.*

*Except for lumber. :)
Of course it already got its soaking the last month. :(

Cecil Turner

This isn't a Law and Order episode.

It's just stupidity on the part of the talking heads. The mission was to take out Bin Laden verifiably, and there are only so many ways to skin that cat. The way to do it is to sneak in as quietly as possible, at night, with NVGs and silenced weapons, and pick these guys off as fast as possible and drag the bodies of interest back aboard the helos. Period. The better the SEALs performed, the less chance any of the bad guys had to interfere with the mission. Nobody with any appreciation of the realities of a military raid gives a good crap whether they resisted or fired or held a weapon or whatever . . . that's all just color commentary for the bar story afterward.

It frankly amazes me that these guys can take a winning narrative like this and spin it into a confusing mare's nest of contradictory details. And especially on the stupid crap like "inflammatory" photos when they should've said something like "we decided to follow the spirit of the Geneva Conventions, even though he didn't deserve it." Or they could've released 'em without comment. The one positive PR value is that it keeps the focus on the President, who really didn't have all that much of an impact on the mission (other than authorizing it). I wish I wasn't cynical enough to think that's the most likely reason for the floundering.

fdcol63

Has anyone checked the price of cotton latey? No wonder Levi's are so expensive now.

Extraneus

Osama bin Laden dead: Blackout during raid on bin Laden compound

The head of the CIA admitted yesterday that there was no live video footage of the raid on Osama bin Laden's compound as further doubts emerged about the US version of events.
Shouldn't the word be "claimed," if indeed he even did that?
In an interview with PBS, Mr Panetta said: "Once those teams went into the compound I can tell you that there was a time period of almost 20 or 25 minutes where we really didn't know just exactly what was going on. And there were some very tense moments as we were waiting for information.

"We had some observation of the approach there, but we did not have direct flow of information as to the actual conduct of the operation itself as they were going through the compound."

Did Panetta say there was a "blackout" or that there was no video feed? Let's not forget, this is the same guy who was Chief of Staff when perjury depended on what the definition of "is" is.

Captain Hate

O/T We're from the UN and we're here to help: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/centralamericaandthecaribbean/haiti/8494066/Haiti-cholera-outbreak-linked-to-peacekeepers-UN-admits.html

Thomas Collins

I guess Obama was correct in not releasing the photos. See LUN for scenes of peaceful Paks holding up signs thanking the US for giving Osama a proper Islamic burial and not releasing the photos.

Cecil Turner

Did Panetta say there was a "blackout" or that there was no video feed?

This stuff (C4I) is getting so much better so fast I hate to second-guess it, but not too long ago there was no real-time capability to follow a raid at all. And the bandwidth to stream helmet video up to a satellite and thence to a command center was a pipe dream. (Besides which, there's no real requirement for doing it, and the last thing you want is for the powers-that-be to think they can run it like a chess game from the sitution room.)

I interpreted his statement as: they followed the approach on overhead imagery (drone or satellite); but once the fighting started in the compound, they couldn't tell what was happening. And the next reliable datapoint was probably someone relaying "Geronimo" over the comm link. Or at least that's what I'd expect.

Danube of Thought

Dershowitz is harshly critical of the whole post-killing circus.

Ignatz

--Has anyone checked the price of cotton latey? No wonder Levi's are so expensive now.--

Ask and it shall be given to you.

Ignatz

--And the bandwidth to stream helmet video up to a satellite and thence to a command center was a pipe dream.--

Well even if they could, seems to me the ability to penetrate a couple of floors of a building to a satellite would be pretty tough, unless the signal is sent from the cam to a sender on the helicopter.

MayBee

I can't believe people are trying to undercut the story of President Obama's heroic watching of the raid.

Captain Hate

That's right MayBee; can't he just finish his waffle while basking in the glow of a job well watched.

MayBee

basking in the glow of a job well watched.

Genius.

Melinda Romanoff

Ig-

What'd I tell you?

Extraneus

Clintonian weasel words.

JIM LEHRER: Did you have access to video of what was actually happening in the compound, et cetera?

LEON PANETTA: We had live-time intelligence information that we were dealing with during the operation itself.

JIM LEHRER: Did you actually see - or did you actually see Osama bin Laden get shot?

LEON PANETTA: No. No, not at all. We - you know, we had some observation of the approach there, but we did not have direct flow of information as to the actual conduct of the operation itself as they were going through the compound.

JIM LEHRER: What about at the White House situation room where President Obama was? Did he have any - was he seeing anything, any actual time, real-time action going on as well?

LEON PANETTA: I think they were viewing some of the real-time aspects of this as well in terms of the intelligence that we were getting.

JIM LEHRER: So do you think the - did the president see the shots fired at Osama bin Laden?

LEON PANETTA: No. No, not at all. I think we - you know, we saw from, you know, some of the operations that we knew that the helicopters had - were on the ground, that the teams were going into the compound. And that was the kind of information that we were following.

Once those teams went into the compound, I can tell you that there was a time period of almost 20 or 25 minutes where we - you know, we really didn't know just exactly what was going on. And there were some very tense moments as we were waiting for information. But finally, Adm. McRaven came back and said that he had picked up the word "Geronimo," which was the code word that represented that they got bin Laden.

Extraneus

Unless all 24 guys were streaming live video to 24 separate screens in the situation room, Panetta's explanation would suffice no matter what they watched. And he could easily be lying about "exactly" what they saw.

cathyf

If the building was reinforced concrete with a ridiculous amount of steel rebar, then there is no way the signal was getting out once the guys went in to the building.

(Our church rectory is a house with plaster walls with wire mesh to support the plaster. A wireless signal goes like 2 rooms, you can't make a cell phone call unless you are next to a window, and radio and TV antennas are useless. We have always joked about selling it to NSA as impervious to electronic eavesdropping! If the safehouse was enough of a bunker, that might just explain why OBL didn't have a cell phone.)

peter

A Seal probably put duct tape over the lens so he wouldn't be micromanaged from the WH while conducting the raid.

Dave (in MA)

Or dragged before Steadman in a show trial.

Ignatz

I'm sure the military has better uplinks than cellular, Dish Network or XM/Sirius [at least I hope to God they do] but our satellite radio gets blocked just by a few tall trees between the antenna and satellite when we're on the road and a good hard rainstorm can distort or knock out our TV reception

Jack is Back!

cathyf,

There is portable technology (i.e. leaky feeders) that can be used in a shielded environment such as long tunnels that could have been used by the SEAL team. High Speed Rail using ERTM singalling technology relies on "GSM leaky feeder" technology in long tunnels to control train separation and safety. No reason the military ops have not adapted for this eventuality. I smell a rat.

Dave (in MA)

Good points.

fdcol63

Ignatz,

Thanks for the chart. I'd seen this one earlier.

cathyf

Yeah, jib, I lean more towards the duct tape theory, myself -- or maybe just the "off" switch...

The DoJ is still threatening the CIA agents who collected the intelligence to find OBL.

Thousand Liar Dressing.

I think we might have misunderestimated Obama. Apparently he can talk and eat salad at the same time.
================

Jack is Back!

Anybody else see where Debra Burlingham confronted Bambi today at the G-0 site wreath laying? Evidently she asked him why Stedman was still pursuing the CIA interregators and he said that was DoJ's position to pursue and she said but you can stop it and he said he won't.

What a turd. He is taking his clown car victory lap on the hearts, souls and brains of the guys keeping him and the rest of us free from more terror. I thought the stories about killing the surviving abortion babies made him look like a relic from Mengele's horror chamber but this one beats them all.

OldTimer

Ollie North just explained something to Hannity that made a lot of sense. Why did Barry and crew have to say anything at all about the raid and capture of OBL? Why didn't they just keep the mission super secret for intelligence gathering purposes?

Simple, according to Ollie. They want to thump their chests and claim the ultimate victory, more than they value what the SEAL's accomplished on America's behalf. They planned the politically correct OBL funeral service on the Vinson, knowing they would have to answer a lot of questions after the raid, and not offending Muslims is important to Barry.

Sara (Pal2Pal)

Whether they were broadcasting or not, the cameras, especially the helmet cams were still running, don't you think?

I would like to know who is out blabbing operational details. I'm pretty sure the Seals aren't talking, except to their own trusted briefer.

I don't care if bin Laden could reach a firearm, it isn't as if he wouldn't use one if he could reach it.

George W Bush said he did not care if they got OBL dead or alive and to my knowledge, that order had never been rescinded. So they got him dead, so what?

Sara (Pal2Pal)

The children in the White House are like teenagers who cannot wait to call all their friends with the latest gossip. That is exactly what they did on Sunday night even though they had few facts and nothing verified except perhaps the kill itself. It reminds me of a hard fought football game my son played in. They left the field drained, dehydrated, and dead dog tired from playing a very tough team in 95 degree heat in a game that went to overtime. As we were walking to the car and my husband was literally holding our son upright, the cheerleaders and their girlfriends were carrying on and son looked up in disgust and said, "you'd think they just won the game the way they're babbling."

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