USA! Or, Just What Are We Celebrating?

Some of the usual suspects on the left are bleating about the tasteless celebrations of Osama's death by the great unwashed.  Here is a Huffer:

While the killing of Osama Bin Laden is being enthusiastically celebrated throughout America and some parts of the world, to say that such merriment is out of order will surely be considered heresy. Nonetheless, I'm saying it--because it needs to be said. For starters, let me say this: "Those of you who are celebrating--could you just pause for a moment and consider: What message are you sending the world?"

...

But celebration in the streets and on the airwaves is neither appropriate nor advisable--really--no matter what your feelings of elation. Here's why.

"Celebrating" the killing of any member of our species--for example, by chanting USA! USA! and singing The Star Spangled Banner outside the White House or jubilantly demonstrating in the streets--is a violation of human dignity. Regardless of the perceived degree of "good" or "evil" in any of us, we are all, each of us, human. To celebrate the killing of a life, any life, is a failure to honor life's inherent sanctity.

And the reliable Glenn Greenwald:

The killing of Osama bin Laden is one of those events which, especially in the immediate aftermath, is not susceptible to reasoned discussion. It's already a Litmus Test event: all Decent People -- by definition -- express unadulterated ecstacy at his death, and all Good Americans chant "USA! USA!" in a celebration of this proof of our national greatness and Goodness (and that of our President). 

...The killing of Osama bin Laden is one of those events which, especially in the immediate aftermath, is not susceptible to reasoned discussion. It's already a Litmus Test event: all Decent People -- by definition -- express unadulterated ecstacy at his death, and all Good Americans chant "USA! USA!" in a celebration of this proof of our national greatness and Goodness (and that of our President). 

Let me suggest a thought experiment (if thinking is still allowed on the left) - what do these authors imagine the reaction would have been to the news that Osama had been captured alive and unharmed?

We don't know, of course.  But my guess is that the baseball crowd in Philly would still have chanted "USA", crowds would still have gathered at the White House and Ground Zero, people would have celebrated around the country, and the White House would have taken a victory lap.

Welll, then - if the reaction to Osama's capture would have been just the same as the reaction to his death, maybe we aren't tastelessly celebrating his death.  Maybe we are just celebrating the end of his era and the triumph of the good guys over the bad guys (sorry for the cryptic reference, libs - Team USA is the good guys.)  In which case the handwringing is utterly misdirected.

SINCE YOU ASK:  The politics around the capture of Saddam Hussein were complicated by feelings about the war, yet there were still celebrations in the US:

The reactions of surprise and relief in most American towns seemed muted compared with the responses of communities with strong and recent ties to Iraq.

In Dearborn, Mich., where a relatively large number of Iraqi-Americans live, scores of people flooded Warren Avenue early on Sunday morning, honking car horns and beating drums. Parties were planned to last into the evening. One man poked his head from the sunroof of his packed car, to wave an American flag, even as snowflakes fell.

''People were melting the snow with the heat of this celebration,'' said Imam Husham al-Husainy, an Iraqi Shiite leader who runs the Karbalaa Islamic Education Center in Dearborn. ''The real celebration and liberation begins today.''

 

Comments

[Rob Crawford]

It can be said that the Americans celebrating is no different than when some Arabs celebrated after 9/11.

It can be said, but only believed by morons. Celebrating the death of a psychopathic mass murderer who intended to kill tens of thousands -- who chuckled over the deaths of children -- is different than celebrating the murders of those children.

[Wheels within Wheels.]

YGBSM, you are getting more persuasive. I don't doubt that there are political rifts within Pakistan. Who controls Da Bom? ISI or the Army?
=======

[fdcol63]

Muslims should fear what happens if they inflame US.

[Rick Ballard]

Clarice,

The Pak leak of the daughter's description of the execution is rather interesting. A bit of ISI reprisal?

[fdcol63]

"It can be said that the Americans celebrating is no different than when some Arabs celebrated after 9/11."

Just the same old BS PC "moral relativism".

[bunkerbuster]

sbw: Surely you are aware that newspapers pay ABC to audit their circulation. No pay, no audit. How do you get that advertisers control it?
This is why ABC enables free newspapers to exaggerate their circulation -- it needs the fees they pay. Paid subscription periodicals can easily prove how many readers they have by showing their subscription and newstand sales receipts.
Free publications have no choice but to guess how many people actually read their paper based on how many copies are picked up and how many come back. This leaves huge room for interpretation, or legerdemain, depending on how you want to slice it.
All free newspapers exaggerate their readership, with most claiming readership that is actually higher than the number of printed copies. Presumably, ABC merely enforces limits on the exaggeration, so that no individual paper is exaggerating any more wildly than the other. I suppose that is fair enough, otherwise advertisers would pay it no heed and they'd fold...

[My irony museum as wing full of dilemmas.]

Quite a tightrope for the Pakis, eh? Plausible deniability when he's a stoner's throw from a military academy.
================

[bunkerbuster]

wow! I have been pleasantly surprised at the number of wingnuts willing to give Obama credit for killing bin Laden, but neo will have none of it. He compares those celebrating to:

"a KKK mob after a lynching"

I gotta say, that's way, way more delusional than anything I have heard from the left wingnut side...

[clarice]

"The Pak leak of the daughter's description of the execution is rather interesting. A bit of ISI reprisal?"

Interesting observation Of course, it could just be bad reporting. The English language stuff from that part of the world is often none too reliable or clearly written.

We were told the Yemeni was a 19 y.o. wife of OBL. The Pak report suggests she might be OBL's personal physician--yet last night I read that the neighbor was a "senior Major" medical officer in the Pak Army. Perhaps our men got hold of the prescriptions and can answer that question.

[Curious, I agree.]

But Rick, why the confirmation that he hid behind his wife? Lot's of justification for the execution. He was in custody, but the Performing Seals still had to outfly the Pakis' ol' two-way.
============

[fdcol63]

"a KKK mob after a lynching"

A check of voter registration cards would probably show that ALL of them were registered Democrats. Ironic.

[Danube of Thought]

When you've lost Mark Helperin of Time...

[clarice]

P.S., Rick, of course, the leak may have been designed to create more outrage in the Arab street--the hero was in chains when we murdered him sort of thing.

[Danube of Thought]

One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter.

Yeah. And one man's holocaust is another man's final solution. You just have to make a choice about which kind of man you are.

[fdcol63]

" ... the hero was in chains when we murdered him sort of thing ..."

After watching these same Muslims cheer at the videos of Zarqawi and other AQ goons proudly sawing the heads off of their American and European captives, this shouldn't bother us at all.

[Danube of Thought]

Raz is very surprising. I don't know what to make of it, but I am certainly in the camp of those who believe that this wonderful event will have no effect in November, 2012. Ask Bush the Elder.

[clarice]

About Halperin, DoT--I told you--we didn't have to do much, Pres Jiveass and his hardy crew would do it for us.

[Sue]

JMH,

I had similar feelings...always thinking communists were about to drop an atomic bomb on us. I remember thinking when the electricity would suddenly go off that the communists were behind it, not the thunderstorm rolling through. And that was back in the days when your news was mostly local and the world outside seemed distant. I can't imagine how kids, the same age as I was back then, dealt with the emotions of 9/11 and constant terror threats in a day when 24 hours news is the norm.

[clarice]

Re Raz--perfecto--now SCAM can start floating the story that Penetta and Clinton forced O to take such a big risk for no real political gain.. Stir that pot ladies and gents.

[Janet]

from the Halperin link - "The White House has stumbled by violating one of Washington's iron rules: when something becomes famous inside the Beltway for not being released, the pressure from the media to release it becomes unrelenting."

bold mine. So, if something is famous OUTSIDE the Beltway for not being released...there is not much media pressure to release it!!!
Birth certificates, Eckenrode notes, Berger documents, DC Madams COMPLETE list of clients, video from the LA Times of Obama,...

[centralcal]

Thanks for the Halperin link, DoT. Pretty accurate analysis by him.

[Danube of Thought]

I love this one from the Pak Foreign Minister:

"Such actions undermine cooperation and may also sometime constitute threat to international peace and security."

We sure wouldn't want to do anything to undermine that cooperation now, would we?

[fdcol63]

We should make clear that sheltering OBL for the last 6 years undermined our cooperation and may end all of our foreign aid to Pakistan.

[clarice]

*PAnetta*

[Sue]

In other news, Obama has turned down Perry's request to declare Texas a disaster area.

[Ranger]

but I'm willing to cut them some slack on this particular dither.

Posted by: Cecil Turner | May 04, 2011 at 09:20 AM

I'm not. Its the kind of issue that a competent planning staff would have considered before the operation even took place. Given that this is a political decision, the fault for not having thought the issue through before hand is squarely on the White House.

[cathyf]

P.S., Rick, of course, the leak may have been designed to create more outrage in the Arab street--the hero was in chains when we murdered him sort of thing.

Perhaps... Or maybe it was the Paks trying to justify to the Arab Street why they cooperate with us. Maybe they understand the Arab Street better, and think that the story that we are a bunch of badasses is smarter than the story that we are a bunch of namby-pambys.

[Ranger]

I have to say that if the story about Obama taking 16 hours to make up his mind on the raid is true, it is very damning. He said during the campaign that if he had actionable intel on Bin Laden, he would take action. The fact that he when presented with the decision, he waited, indicates that what he said during the campaign was a lie, purely meant for political consumption, not a statement of priciple. If it had been a statement of principle, there would have been no need to "think it over."

[Danube of Thought]

From the Daily Mail:

There had been deep disagreement among the security team, with half of them – reportedly mainly the politicians – opposing the assault, instead favouring waiting until they could be sure Bin Laden was definitely in the compound, or mounting a less risky bombing raid.

That's becoming fairly well established, it seems. But no one should forget that the decision rested with Obama himself, and he got it right.

[clarice]

Don Surber --- the WH gang sitting around in the situation room watching as if this were "CSI:Abbottabad"

HEH

[pagar]

"If we keep pussy-footing around this PC based idea of Muslim sensibilitie we will only add to our vulnerability with the Islamists."

We still have a little ways to sink.

http://www.fivefeetoffury.com/2011/05/denmark-man-guilty-of-racism-for-private-conversation-about-muslim-incestuous-rape-statistics/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+FiveFeetOfFury+%28five+feet+of+fury%29

[clarice]

I'm with Ranger, Cecil--A list of things to be resolved before the operation was undertaken would surely have to have included how proof that this was OBL was to be presented to the public, including whether or not a picture would be released.

[Captain Hate]

In other news, Obama has turned down Perry's request to declare Texas a disaster area.

Harkening back to the interview where the Texas questioner was asking about an anti-Texas mindset and Toonces was obviously perturbed.

[Rick Ballard]

Clarice,

The immediate ISI release of the daughter's account of her father's execution busts up the White House legend before it can root. It might be mistranslation but it could well be the ISI putting a finger in Obama's eye as well. Had the other chopper not had a malfunction we wouldn't have to be concerned about loose eyewitness accounts.

Nothing about the execution bothers me in the slightest - you shoot a rabid dog where you find him. There are those who will find the summary execution of an unarmed man while surrendering a bit unsettling though - it doesn't quite fit Holder's vision of lawfare in Barry's World.

King and Spalding lost out on a once in a lifetime client as well.

[DebinNC]

Anyone else think the SEALS arrived with orders to not just kill OBL, but shoot him in the head? Why though?...to divide jihadis over whether OBL is dead?..To keep an iconic pic of a martyred OBL, eyes peacefully closed and noble brow intact, from appearing at every jihadi rally and hanging from the walls of every ME home? Whatever the reason, I can't believe the SEALS couldn't have killed OBL is a way that left him recognizable unless specifically ordered not to.

[Neo]

A possible landmark ruling in one of the mass-BitTorrent lawsuits in the U.S. may spell the end of the “pay-up-or-else-schemes” that have targeted over 100,000 Internet users in the last year. District Court Judge Harold Baker has denied a copyright holder the right to subpoena the ISPs of alleged copyright infringers, because an IP-address does not equal a person. ... Among other things Judge Baker cited a recent child porn case where the U.S. authorities raided the wrong people, because the real offenders were piggybacking on their Wi-Fi connections. Using this example, the judge claims that several of the defendants in VPR’s case may have nothing to do with the alleged offense either. “The infringer might be the subscriber, someone in the subscriber’s household, a visitor with her laptop, a neighbor, or someone parked on the street at any given moment,” Judge Baker writes.

[Thomas Collins]

OK, DOT, I know you're still smarting from the non-release of the balloons at the Forum during the Russell era, but hold your fire until the Celts are officially elimiated!

Great time to be a JOM poster. Osama in the ocean and JOM fan playoff trash talking!

[Extraneus]

If it had been a statement of principle, there would have been no need to "think it over."

Excellent point.

[Thomas Collins]

So the progs want to know why folks are celebrating? I can't speak for others, but here is why I am celebrating:

(i) Elimination of an enemy of my country and the self-evident truths for which it stands.

(ii) Elimination of an enemy of my country and the self-evident truths for which it stands.

(iii) Elimination of an enemy of my country and the self-evident truths for which it stands.

I am truuuuuly sorry, progs, if that offends your sensibilities.

[BB Key]

The release the photo charade is designed to keep the story above the fold and reinforce the Obama is awesome narrative...If the photo is not released this week it will be released in September 2012 just in time for the election...

[MarkO]

"But no one should forget that the decision rested with Obama himself, and he got it right."

While true in absolute terms, I'm starting to think that Panetta presented him a fait accompli, so that BHO could veto, but it would have left him appearing not to want to get UBL. That, of course, would leak out and be the end of BHO's 2012 chances.

I could be wrong. I thought the Yankees would win game 7 over Pittsburg in 1960.

[clarice]

Yeah, Rick, I think the poke in the Obama eye is the most likely explanation. An ally would have kept it quiet--after all she's in strict purdah..

[peter]

I could be wrong. I thought the Yankees would win game 7 over Pittsburg in 1960.

They lost. I'm just getting over it.

[Jack is Back!]

Clarice,

I don't know. They only had since August to do all their contingency planning in between Oprah, The View, the golf, the fundraisers, forging the BC:), and getting Michelle's garden harvested. I think you expect too much from him. After all, how can he do any planning without the right phone and the other cool stuff he was expecting in his oval office?

[Sue]

But on the other hand, how does the Arab world decide which story to believe? The daughter who confirms her father is dead? Or their belief that Osama lives? Tough call.

[Thomas Collins]

See LUN for an article about complaints over the use of "Geronimo" as Osama's code name.

If American Indians object to using American Indian names as code names for terrorists, let me suggest code names on which substantially all of Americans should be able to agree:

(i) al-Zawahiri: Michael Moore.

(ii) al-Awlaki: Alec Baldwin.

(iii) el-Qadhaffi: Noam Chomsky.

And, in a nod to American Indian sensibilities, I suggest that bin Laden's code name be retroactively changed to: Mike Nifong. Problem solved!

[Cecil Turner]

Its the kind of issue that a competent planning staff would have considered before the operation even took place.

In their (rather lame) defense, it appears to me they did: and decided not to release pictures. Now they're second-guessing themselves, and I suspect they're going to reverse the decision.

The complicating factor is that the main issue we have with terrorists is their failure to abide by the laws of war (in particular, their targeting of noncombatants). I agree with those above who reject the various moral equivalency arguments, but note that the arguments will be made, and play into the hands of enemy propagandists. I just think we ought to avoid giving them ammo wherever possible, and that this particular issue is harder than folks may be giving them credit for.

Anyone else think the SEALS arrived with orders to not just kill OBL, but shoot him in the head?

I'd think a typical SEAL would interpret an order to "kill" bin Laden as a requirement for a standard "double tap" and shoot him once in the chest and once in the head. It's also worth noting that an order for "no quarter" is a clear violation of the law of war (Hague IV, Art. 23), and I suspect that's the reason for the contradictory stories on that point.

[Captain Hate]

I thought the Yankees would win game 7 over Pittsburg in 1960.

Mazeroski FTW. That was a strange series.

[Rick Ballard]

I would note that, given OBL's bluster about not being taken alive and wearing an explosive vest to bed (snort), there was no reason to assume that he was unarmed just because he didn't have a gun in his hand. The shot to the head would be an effective way of minimizing any risk that he would use a concealed detonator.

[Thomas Collins]

See LUN for Nancy Pelosi, of all people, apparently showing some class re the Osama caper.

[MarkO]

IIRC, (look Ma, no words), the head shot was because he might be wearing a vest.

[Jack is Back!]

So, Pelosi calls W and thanks him for his role in bringing down OBL. I sense a little schism between the House Dems and WH is still there. LUN

[anduril]

Steve Sailer is full of questions these days: How's that coed Navy SEALs thing working out?

[Jack is Back!]

TC,

You win by a keystroke

[clarice]

"But on the other hand, how does the Arab world decide which story to believe? The daughter who confirms her father is dead? Or their belief that Osama lives? Tough call."

In the ME it's altogether possible to believe two utterly contradictory things at the same time.For example, Jews are the descendants of monkeys and pigs and are utterly inferior. They also run the world and control everything.

[anduril]

a standard "double tap" and shoot him once in the chest and once in the head

a "standard double tap" doesn't involve changing the point of aim.

[Extraneus]

So what's the status of the proof at this point? Besides Panetta's word, we have Pakistan's claim that they have bin Laden's daughter? Has the young lady's photo been released?

Seriously, two days and 47 back-pats later, the 2012 election already over, and we still don't know that they got the right guy?

[Elliott]

It's also worth noting that an order for "no quarter" is a clear violation of the law of war (Hague IV, Art. 23), and I suspect that's the reason for the contradictory stories on that point.

It probably also explains yesterday's claim that the President, though photographed watching the feed, didn't see any rough stuff.

[Porchlight]

I'm starting to think that Panetta presented him a fait accompli, so that BHO could veto, but it would have left him appearing not to want to get UBL.

Certainly Panetta presented it with a bow on top. The operation took considerable planning, so that planning had to be complete well in advance of Obama's Thursday afternoon Friday morning decision to give the go ahead.

[Rob Crawford]

IIRC, (look Ma, no words), the head shot was because he might be wearing a vest.

Plus the SEALs are highly practiced shooters.

[DebinNC]

I'd think a typical SEAL would interpret an order to "kill" bin Laden as a requirement for a standard "double tap" and shoot him once in the chest and once in the head.

I doubt the SEALS were left to "interpret" how to kill OBL, especially since the WH had rejected the bombing option because they wanted to have proof OBL was there and dead. I don't see how rendering the corpse unrecognizable accomplishes that, and the answer lies with the WH "planners", not the SEAL heroes.

[I shot the the Sharif.]

ow, not o.
====

[Soylent Red]

They also run the world and control everything.

Psst, clarice... put in a good word for me with the International Zionist CabalTM that when the deal goes down, I'd like a nice ranch in Arizona.

[And they have a variant.]

Justification for the Pakis: Bin Laden wasn't playing cricket.
===============

[DebinNC]

One (or more) of the SEALS repelled in with a drug-sniffing dog strapped to himself.

[Sue]

Clarice,

In the ME it's altogether possible to believe two utterly contradictory things at the same time.

So basically they act like democrats?

[MarkO]

If the WH wanted 'irrefuatable" proof that UBL was dead, releasing a photo seems like part of the process. Of course, BHO thinks everyone should believe him. I guess the entire world is racist. Damn.

[anduril]

In LE terms Osama would have been "presumed armed and very dangerous." Given that action is faster than reaction, no one is gonna question the shooting even if all Osama did was go cross-eyed when the SEALs burst into the room.

I haven't been following this, but I've seen one or two statements about the time it took to "get" Osama, like they didn't "get" him until close to the end of the 40 minutes. My assumption is that evidence gathering occupied most of those 40 minutes and I can't imagine it taking longer than 5 minutes absolutely max to find and kill Osama.

[Porchlight]

Pardon my ignorance but I can't seem to sort out the various stories. Is it the official WH line that there is video of the kill, or that no video exists? If there is no kill video, is there video of him alive in the house?

I ask because video of him alive in the house would at least help with the ID question (although not with the "is he dead" question).

I still don't really understand what exactly the gang was watching in the situation room.

[Thomas Collins]

Actually, JiB, I'm going to concede the San Fran Nan post title to you, because you pointed out something I missed, namely, that there may have been a "diss the White House" element in her action.

[Cecil Turner]

I doubt the SEALS were left to "interpret" how to kill OBL . . .

I seriously doubt anyone at the White House was going to tell SEAL Team Six how to kill someone . . . or that such a directive would be met with anything other than derisive laughter. Besides, with guys who practice that sort of thing as much as they do, a double tap is practically a reflex. I would be surprised to see anything else (and was, over the initial report that he was shot twice in the head).

[Army of Davids]

Wonder how many people remember Pelosi and Holder's political assault on the CIA interrogators in Gitmo?

[Extraneus]

How is a photo proof of anything these days, anyway? Will it be authenticated somehow, or just released as a jpeg?

Perhaps video of the actual killing would be convincing. Surely they have it. Did he beg for mercy or really resist?

[Elliott]

TC,

You win by a keystroke
....

Actually, JiB, I'm going to concede the San Fran Nan post title to you,

What's all this courtesy doing on a loutish Americans thread? The brand is going to suffer.

[MayBee]

The complicating factor is that the main issue we have with terrorists is their failure to abide by the laws of war (in particular, their targeting of noncombatants).

The other complicating factor is they dumped his body in the ocean, 13 hours after the mission began, before the DNA tests were complete and apparently with no autopsy.

We have also seen photos of Saddam's capture, Saddam's trial, Saddam's hanging, as well as Uday and Qusay (sp) death photos. It is what Americans have come to expect.

If they want to make an exception, they have to do better than "We are scared of the Arab Street".

[Extraneus]

Boehner says he has all the proof he needs that bin Laden is dead.

"I'm convinced. I have no doubts."

This statement is based on a 10 minute phone conversation with Obama.

[clarice]

Consider it done, Soylent.

[Neo]

Today in drinking history:

These men will be immortalized in a new drinks ..

“The bin Laden” — two shots and a splash

“The Obama” — tall glass of weak tea

[peter]

As I understand it, the Seals had helmet cameras, so a still from that video, perhaps a microsecond after the bullet left the muzzle but before Osama's brains had turned to borscht would be proof enough.

[JM Hanes]

It's interesting that four of the five errors Halperin points out have to do with losing control -- over the story, the photo debate, the Afghanistan debate & the Pakistan debate. I keep going back to Matt Yglesias accidental prescience in identifying Obama's accidental foreign policy at the get-go.

It's ironic that Halperin points out a missed opportunity to bring the country together by being more generous in his praise of GWB, in light of Obama's ex post facto coming-together drum beat -- which Halperin ignores. Back to error #1:

The administration deserves mountains of credit for its painstaking, conspicuous effort to brief the world on the mission, knowing a lot of information would have to be held back to protect sources, operatives, methods, and sensitive data. Which makes the carelessness of the errors somewhat surprising.

Halperin doesn't make the obvious leap: Obama lost control of the timing too. Thomas Lifson points out multiple factors which strongly suggests that is, in fact, the case. I doubt that Obama could/would have risked waiting till October to green light the mission -- although it would be hard to think of a more effective October surprise -- but he must have had an unhappy 16 hours. Put it all together, and you've got an Administration which has lost both substantive control of policy and political control of the narrative.

There was a sea of other serious risks here, though, and I do think Obama deserves some credit for making the right call, despite what will surely be plenty of ham-handed attempts to exploit the success politically ex post facto.

[Captain Hate]

I just heard on the radio that Harry Reid fell in the rain and dislocated his shoulder. Am I a bad person to think that bystanders were forced to draw straws on who would help him up?

[MarkO]

Let's try this: how long would Bush have waited?

[JM Hanes]

anduril:

"no one is gonna question the shooting"

Surely, you jest.

[MarkO]

"who would help him up?"

I would have rushed over and yanked him to he feet by that very arm.

[clarice]

Exactly..JMH//LI says it more succinctly than Halperin:

uphoria Sunday night has turned into a complete muddle of embarrassingly conflicting accounts.

As for the release of photos and other proof, did they not think that through beforehand?

I suggest the adminsitration get a handle on it, now, because it's getting away.

Is anyone in charge?

**

I said it first..praise him fortaking the action and then step out of the way and let the usual a little song, a little dance, a little seltzer down your pants administration undercut the achievement.

[Cecil Turner]

The other complicating factor is they dumped his body in the ocean, 13 hours after the mission began . . .

Here again there's a law of war issue. Per Geneva I, Art 17:

They shall further ensure that the dead are honourably interred, if possible according to the rites of the religion to which they belonged, that their graves are respected . . .

Muslim rites (similar to Jewish ones, AIUI) are for a quick burial (before sunset?). Seems to me a fair attempt at following the applicable guidelines.

[clarice]

Since no country was willing to accept the body, burial at sea seemed utterly suitable , the dripping blood imams to the contrary not withstanding.

If I may interject something. It seems to me a lot of the inconsistent statements are directly related to the desire to make this appear less like a targeted assassination than it was to appeal to those who can never be satisfied by a strong offensive no matter how it is performed.

[clarice]

Does Reid's fall mean that the cloture vote at 12 is off? I see the hand of God in all this.

[MayBee]

I'm not against burial at sea. I thought it was brilliant I'm saying it was unusually abrupt, and not what AMERICANS have come to expect. We are allowed to ask for evidence. We are accustomed to getting it.

[Porchlight]

clarice, you were right, this administration will screw up all by its lonesome with no help from us.

Andrew Malcolm's last two posts on the song and dance are devastating IMHO:

Today: Osama bin Laden's death: Clarifying the Obama administration's cnofsuoin and missteaks

Monday: Osama bin Laden dead: Yes, SEALs were in on the raid, but aides hail Obama's office bravery

Here is a sample from today's entry:

One compound resident pointed out Osama. Three compound residents died in the firefight. One man used a woman as a human shield. She was an Osama wife. They both died. She was only shot in the leg running toward a SEAL. She didn't die. Another woman did on another floor. There was no human shield. The Osama son initially identified as shot and killed may have been the other one.

The Jay Carney pics on that post are hilarious, too.

[Janet]

Muslim rites? Are you kidding me? If we needed to photograph, get DNA, check out his lousy liver, do an autopsy...then too d#*n bad for the Muslim rites. The "cover the cross with plywood" party is concerned with religious rites?!?! Idiots, liars, & sneaky no-good libs. Just disgusting. Show the picture.

[clarice]

I don't contest those points, MayBee.

[Porchlight]

I am with MayBee. The burial at sea was acceptable (although I'm not very happy about the ceremony that accompanied it). But we should expect that evidence will be collected beforehand and disseminated afterwards, along with little things like timelines, updates on the fates of the other people in the compound, etc.

[Rob Crawford]

Here again there's a law of war issue. Per Geneva I, Art 17:

Except you left out the part about "properly maintained and marked so that they may always be found".

Immaterial, in either case, since Article 13 explicitly excludes members of al'Qaeda from these provisions.

[Rob Crawford]

Andrew Malcolm's last two posts on the song and dance are devastating IMHO:

I'm not particularly upset that the "story" is confusing and confused. It was a firefight -- even though the Americans present had practiced their movements dozens of times, the other side had options, too. I have no doubt there are people going over the recordings, sync'ing them up, ironing out what happened when and who did what and where everyone was and where every shot went, but we won't (and likely shouldn't) see the results of that for decades.

[Sue]

Was there this much confusion when Saddam was taken out? I don't remember it, if there was.

[Captain Hate]

Does Reid's fall mean that the cloture vote at 12 is off? I see the hand of God in all this.

More like the hand of the devil giving us false hopes because according to the minor minions of hell at politico he's back at work.

[Cecil Turner]

Except you left out the part about "properly maintained and marked so that they may always be found".

Obviously inapplicable in this case (and burial at sea is apparently a proper alternative when desecration is expected).

Immaterial, in either case, since Article 13 explicitly excludes members of al'Qaeda from these provisions.

I don't think that's the position of the USG after recent SCOTUS rulings. But in any event, the categorization of a war criminal becomes moot after death, and desecration of bodies is counterproductive.

[Danube of Thought]

That was a strange series.

Sure was. Bobby Richardson set a WS record with five RBI in one game; Mantle broke it with six the next day. Mantle hit some shots that I believe are still going. Three blowout wins, but four losses. I died a little that day...

[Ignatz]

--One (or more) of the SEALS repelled in with a drug-sniffing dog strapped to himself.--

It's hard to go into anything when you're repelling. :) Rapelled, maybe?
And unless they were afraid OBL was gonna hit em with a brick of hash I suspect if there was a pooch involved, which I find somewhat dubious, I imagine it would be the explosives sniffing variety.