bama delivers a big Mid East re-reset and calls for the 1967 Israeli borders as the starting point for a solution to the Palestinian problem. But what about the right of return? Apparently that "remains to be negotiated" (quoting the NY Time report).
Congratulations to Bubu: second runner-up in the Teenage Political Science essay contest.
Posted by: Danube of Thought | May 19, 2011 at 10:32 PM
This is what I was referring to,
http://pajamasmedia.com/tatler/2011/05/19/gingrich-says-his-right-wing-social-engineering-crack-wasnt-aimed-at-paul-ryan/
Posted by: narciso | May 19, 2011 at 10:34 PM
I think the Apache, Sioux and Aborigines have a lot in common with the Palestinians
A belief shared only by simpletons. The Apache, Sioux and Aborigines are all on the land where they have historically lived, and are not so abject as to demand some mythical "right of return;" the "Palestinians" elected to leave.
One thing they do have in common is that they were all defeated militarily, the "Palestinians" several times over. Unfortunately, they took the side of the Ottoman Empire, the Third Reich, and the invaders of 1967. Had their conquerors been Arabs on any of those three occasions, every last man, woman and child would have been put to the sword.
Posted by: Danube of Thought | May 19, 2011 at 10:38 PM
Give you joy: Pat Condell on the death of bin Laden.
Posted by: Danube of Thought | May 19, 2011 at 10:41 PM
Was sound asleep on the 7th floor but was rudely awoken by a very long earthquake. The place really shook and for quite a while. Thought for awhile ala Fred Sanford "this was the big one Elizabeth, I'm coming to see you", but no, just another 6.0, so caught a little more shuteye when it finally ended.
See LUN.
Man, these poor people have to be getting tired of these things.
Posted by: daddy | May 19, 2011 at 10:42 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T64JIgs5C6k&feature=player_embedded
Hebron 1929--My grandfather was visiting and missed being slaughtered by one day.
Posted by: clarice | May 19, 2011 at 11:00 PM
Good grief. Morons in Minneapolis are shocked that Lake Calhoun was named for John C. Calhoun and they are demanding that the city remove the stain of honoring a slavery supporter by changing the name to honor Hubert H. Humphrey.
Posted by: Mark Folkestad | May 19, 2011 at 11:02 PM
Hamas speaks:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Fic15V8ChE&NR=1
Posted by: clarice | May 19, 2011 at 11:04 PM
Well besides that, narc, he's on to the last refuge of a scoundrel: Immigration reform. I hope his "really big ideas" transfile box is about tapped out. Even I'm feeling sorry for the idiot who is flagrantly violating the first rule of finding himself in a deep hole.
Posted by: Captain Hate | May 19, 2011 at 11:04 PM
Next they'll want to remove the names "Washington" and "Jefferson," for starters, from all landmarks, schools and juridical entities.
Posted by: Danube of Thought | May 19, 2011 at 11:06 PM
I'm very glad Clarice's grandfather was spared by fate. The Religion of Peace showing its true colors.
Similarly, my mother and cousin missed a Puerto Rican separatist bombing in the mid-Seventies. They walked by the locker the bomb was hidden in at La Guardia and it exploded as they left the parking lot.
Posted by: Mark Folkestad | May 19, 2011 at 11:08 PM
Are we facing the prospect of back-alley circumcisions in San Francisco? I expect cries of outrage from the ACLU any moment now...
Posted by: Danube of Thought | May 19, 2011 at 11:10 PM
The rule is don't bring the semtex, when you're in the hole, I haven't caught the latest Newt foolishness.
Posted by: narciso | May 19, 2011 at 11:15 PM
I know I've posted this "An Open Letter To The World" by Meir Kahane a couple of times but it just seems appropriate right now. Here's just an excerpt.
Dear world, why did the Arabs - the Palestinians - massacre 67 Jews in one day in 1929? Could it have been their anger over Israeli aggression in 1967?
good nite all, pray for Israel
Posted by: Rocco | May 19, 2011 at 11:16 PM
King County, where I live, was originally named after William Rufus King.
In 2005 it was renamed it after Martin Luther King, Jr., pleasing one minority and (partly offending another.
Posted by: Jim Miller | May 19, 2011 at 11:17 PM
I saw that earlier clip on Beck this afternoon, absolutely chilling
Posted by: narciso | May 19, 2011 at 11:18 PM
looks like the Three Gorges Dam in China is doing really well....not...why is this not surprising? LUN
Posted by: matt | May 19, 2011 at 11:29 PM
Doesn't surprise me. It is a fact that the worst environmental hazards are the result of state planning.
Posted by: clarice | May 19, 2011 at 11:36 PM
Heh, nice try. Here's the true story:
That's a perfect example of Israeli bad faith negotiating. They knew perfectly well that that was an unacceptable proposal and would have to be rejected by the Arabs--and that they would be able to use that rejection for propaganda purposes. Ben-Gurion said it all:
If Ben-Gurion could speak the truth, what's wrong with JOMers who won't listen?
Posted by: anduril | May 19, 2011 at 11:37 PM
I think the Apache, Sioux and Aborigines have a lot in common with the Palestinians,
More in common with the Jews, actually, since both pre-dated the other inhabitants of their lands.
Posted by: jimmyk | May 19, 2011 at 11:38 PM
Remember: the pedantic fool is the guy who thinks the congress would enact, and the Supreme Court would uphold, a law prohibiting Muslims from entering the country.
He wishes to be taken seriously? Not in these precincts.
Posted by: Danube of Thought | May 19, 2011 at 11:43 PM
Good God! I see that someone actually quoted jimmyk's racist hero, Meir Kahane!
Posted by: anduril | May 19, 2011 at 11:43 PM
Yes, but who will tell Tom Friedman, not that it will matter to his world view.
Posted by: narciso | May 19, 2011 at 11:44 PM
And yet two future members of the first WTC cell, killed him, despite how irrelevant he was, the question still applies why the rage
of '29, which transferred to the German support for the '36-39' intifada, which they
were rewarded with the White Paper.
Posted by: narciso | May 19, 2011 at 11:50 PM
The numbskull [sic] persists.
Posted by: Danube of Thought | May 19, 2011 at 11:53 PM
For all you nutters who've been foaming at the mouth most of the day today, here's pro-Zionist Walter Russell Mead's take: Obama Embraces His Inner Bush.
Posted by: anduril | May 19, 2011 at 11:53 PM
bgates,
I'd like to thank you again for allowing me to participate in the Zionist Narcisolator plot against the intellectually bereft.
Posted by: Rick Ballard | May 19, 2011 at 11:55 PM
Glad to do it, Rick.
DOT, I really need to check that email more often. Not that it would help in this case, because I have no idea why that would be happening (and as I'm sure you noticed, trying to Google "google search" is a fool's errand).
Posted by: bgates | May 19, 2011 at 11:59 PM
Yeah. For some reason it makes me think of being in a Klein bottle.
Posted by: Danube of Thought | May 20, 2011 at 12:03 AM
Israel could not simply agree to allow all Palestinians to return, but consistently sought a solution to the refugee problem. Israel’s position was expressed by David Ben-Gurion (August 1, 1948):
"When the Arab states are ready to conclude a peace treaty with Israel this question will come up for constructive solution as part of the general settlement, and with due regard to our counterclaims in respect of the destruction of Jewish life and property, the long-term interest of the Jewish and Arab populations, the stability of the State of Israel and the durability of the basis of peace between it and its neighbors, the actual position and fate of the Jewish communities in the Arab countries, the responsibilities of the Arab governments for their war of aggression and their liability for reparation, will all be relevant in the question whether, to what extent, and under what conditions, the former Arab residents of the territory of Israel should be allowed to return."
The Israeli government was not indifferent to the plight of the refugees; an ordinance was passed creating a Custodian of Abandoned Property “to prevent unlawful occupation of empty houses and business premises, to administer ownerless property, and also to secure tilling of deserted fields, and save the crops....”
The implied danger of repatriation did not prevent Israel from allowing some refugees to return and offering to take back a substantial number as a condition for signing a peace treaty. In 1949, Israel offered to allow families that had been separated during the war to return, to release refugee accounts frozen in Israeli banks (eventually released in 1953), to pay compensation for abandoned lands and to repatriate 100,000 refugees.
The Arabs rejected all the Israeli compromises. They were unwilling to take any action that might be construed as recognition of Israel. They made repatriation a precondition for negotiations, something Israel rejected. The result was the confinement of the refugees in camps.
Despite the position taken by the Arab states, Israel did release the Arab refugees’ blocked bank accounts, which totaled more than $10 million, paid thousands of claimants cash compensation and granted thousands of acres as alternative holdings.
JVL
Posted by: Rocco | May 20, 2011 at 12:06 AM
I think this speech is helping a lot of pundits fill a lot of space but George Mitchell has resigned. No one has replaced him. No new negotiation sessions are scheduled and if this is more than campaign folderol, perhaps of a sort which like Gingrich's is blowing up in the narcissist's face, I'd be astonished. As it was from Day One, Obama's foreign policy is on the fly, incoherent, and done only for what he perceives is in his interest as a candidate.
Posted by: clarice | May 20, 2011 at 12:08 AM
The Italian press is reporting that Obama's speech was wildly successful in uniting Hamas with the Netanyahu position. Apparently they're telling BOzo to get stuffed just as vociferously as did Bibi.
It's great to see both sides agree so quickly.
Posted by: Rick Ballard | May 20, 2011 at 12:12 AM
True, but the signal he is sending to the Palestinians, ahead of the September UN General Assemblymeeting, which are always problematic, is not reassuring,In other news
http://www.therightscoop.com/sarah-palin-i-do-have-the-fire-in-my-belly-to-run-in-2012/
Posted by: narciso | May 20, 2011 at 12:14 AM
Wow, that was as successful as the 'Martyr's
Sea' ceremony, for the Prince of Abbottabad
Gardens, I have to recycle that line.
Posted by: narciso | May 20, 2011 at 12:18 AM
Looks like you were right, Rich, 'Mission Accomplished ?
http://news.xinhuanet.com/english2010/world/2011-05/20/c_13884173.htm
Posted by: narciso | May 20, 2011 at 12:21 AM
ISN'T IT LOVELY WHEN A PLAN COMES TOGETHER LIKE THIS, RICK?
NITERS
Posted by: clarice | May 20, 2011 at 12:22 AM
There's no speech Obama could have given that wouldn't have resulted in Hamas saying he was leaning toward Israel. The term "shifting goalposts" was invented for the Arabs and their propaganda strategy. If he had said it is time to dissolve the state of Israel and let the Palestinians move in and take over, Hamas would have said, "Outrageous! No reparations?!"
Posted by: jimmyk | May 20, 2011 at 12:40 AM
Clinton learned that lesson eleven years ago, jimmyk. The current clueless dope will learn it for himself.
Posted by: Danube of Thought | May 20, 2011 at 12:54 AM
Clarice--12:08--Megadittos! There is no conspiracy except that of the dunces who say and believe what they think the elite and powerful would like to hear. We have elected the supreme example. Obama knows and does nothing that he doesn't think would meet with the approval of the Harvard faculty. No actual thought or analysis is involved.
Posted by: Boatbuilder | May 20, 2011 at 01:05 AM
I'm in the middle of Michael Totten's latest, which doesn't allow for much doubt about the players in the region. Funny how reality clashes with the political agendae of the asshats in Washington.
Hezbollah and Hamas, along with their sponsors, Syria and Iran, want to wipe Israel from the map. That Iranian frigate dropped off more rockets a couple of months back, and Hamas is biding their time. In the meantime, the MB is gaining influence in Egypt and elsewhere. The Turks are clearly Islamist.
A part of this is the old "external threat" bugaboo of every dictator in history, and a part is simple hard core ethnic cleansing. Most of these assholes actually believe the shit the mullahs pronounce shit. Anybody expecting to deflower 72 virgins upon entry into paradise is an asshole.
Fatah, who are the genesis of the PA, were the people blowing up planes in the 70's and killing .
In the meantime, Obama's favorite dictators, potentates and Muslim Brothers have all been screaming for the blood of the Jew. This transcends the politics of the moment, which will allow one election before the new bosses install themselves.
Don't worry. We're in the best of hands....having read Lawrence when young, it's nice to romanticize the Bedouin, who are not really part of the problem, but we have to accept the fact that the oligarchs have been using the crisis to reinforce their power for the past 100 years. From the Grand Mufti to Abbas to Nasrallah. Kill'em all as far as I'm concerned.
Posted by: matt | May 20, 2011 at 01:34 AM
Wingnut: All Israel wants is peace.
Palestinian: All I want is my land back.
Wingnut: Israel conquered it. It's theirs now.
Palestinian: I see. Surely Israel will understand, then, if we try to conquer it back, right?
Wingnut: How do you expect Israel to negotiate if you won't renounce violence?
Palestinian: Why would we renounce violence if Israel won't negotiate?
Wingnut: But Israel will negotiate, if you renounce violence.
Palestinian: But you said Israel had already conquered us. What's to negotiate?
Wingnut: The terms of your surrender.
Palestinian: I see, so when you said all Israel wants is peace, what you really meant was all Israel wants is conquest.
Wingnut: Look, Israel gave you many chances to compromise.
Palestinian: Look, we gave Israel many chances to compromise.
Wingnut: Anti-semite!
Posted by: bunkerbuster | May 20, 2011 at 01:56 AM
No comment!
El Cheapo vs Obamagas: Pull On In and Put Some Hope in Your Tank
Posted by: Sara (Pal2Pal) | May 20, 2011 at 04:55 AM
Who said this:
“I am a supporter of waterboarding. It is not torture. Torture is really hurting someone. Waterboarding is just scaring someone, with no long-term injurious effects. It is a scare tactic that works.”
Probably one of our foremost experts on the subject of torture and it effects.
Posted by: Sara (Pal2Pal) | May 20, 2011 at 05:37 AM
Take a gander at Palestinian school textbooks and then tell me they want peace!
Teach your children well huh?
Posted by: Rocco | May 20, 2011 at 06:08 AM
The current clueless dope will learn it for himself.
That's very generous, DOT. I've seen no evidence that he's capable of learning anything. He just digs in deeper.
Posted by: jimmyk | May 20, 2011 at 08:20 AM
I don't remember if this was mentioned, but the speech was apparently timed in order to pre-empt a late-May Congressional address by Netanyahu. All of this is positioning ahead of a September UN vote on a Palestinian state.
Obama and Netanyahu, Distrustful Allies, to Meet
Posted by: Extraneus | May 20, 2011 at 08:23 AM
This is 'unexpected' right, well a pupil of Ayer, Wright, Khalidi, et al, could do no other:
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4071461,00.html
Posted by: narciso | May 20, 2011 at 08:35 AM
I guess we should give half of Poland "back" to Germany, since the Poles are only there as a result of conquest in WW II.
What? Germany attacked Poland? Then they were defeated and lost territory as a result? Never mind.
Posted by: jimmyk | May 20, 2011 at 09:02 AM
THE FBI IN PEACE AND WAR:
http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2011/05/19/114467/fbi-lab-reports-on-anthrax-attacks.html
Posted by: clarice | May 20, 2011 at 09:16 AM
I blame this on Meryl Nass and Rosenberg, and her spokespeople, Rozen and Kristof, who insisted it had to be Ft. Dietrich personnel, first Hatfill then Ivins. As if Biopreporat
personnel or some other state defense enterprise couldn't have been involved.
Posted by: narciso | May 20, 2011 at 09:26 AM
Lest anyone say Zionists want peace, they can be directed to the many wingnut blogs like this on, where Zionists openly demand the right of conquest over Palestinian territory and openly deny the right of Palestine to exist.
Unsurprisingly, these same people insist that Palestinians should somehow ignore the Zionist claim to supremacy and unilaterally disarm and adopt pacifism in order to speed the day when Israel completes its displacement and/or removal of all Palestinians from the occupied territories.
Posted by: bunkerbuster | May 20, 2011 at 09:27 AM
'Shirley, you can't be serious'
http://weaselzippers.us/2011/05/20/lindsey-graham-obama-did-a-really-good-job-in-mideast-speech/
Posted by: narciso | May 20, 2011 at 09:42 AM
Narciso, I just came off the bender that Daddy forced on me. I cannot open a Lindsey link right now.
Posted by: Threadkiller | May 20, 2011 at 09:53 AM
Assad only killed nine #tweeters in response to the Obamababble incitement. That's more than 1% of the number killed to date in the Syrian part of the Obama "let's all come together and kill" Arab Spring but a bit below average for a Friday.
I'm sure Assad will do better tomorrow.
Posted by: Rick Ballard | May 20, 2011 at 09:56 AM
Assad is a Zionist?
Posted by: Threadkiller | May 20, 2011 at 10:01 AM
I'm sure Assad will do better tomorrow.
Hope so, since it's Judgement Day.
Posted by: Extraneus | May 20, 2011 at 10:03 AM
Rick-
EU is front burner, today. The Spanish and Italian's are going ape. Norway has stopped its aid payments to Greece.
Very ugly going into Spanish elections this weekend.
Posted by: Melinda Romanoff | May 20, 2011 at 10:06 AM
openly demand the right of conquest over Palestinian territory and openly deny the right of Palestine to exist.
The right of conquest has been recognized since time immemorial. Israel seized and held territory from which it was invaded, in accordance with the age-old custom of war.
Palestine has never existed. Why does it have a right to exist now, and on Israeli soil? (Israel doesn't deny it a right to exist in any event. It's simply a question of where it is to exist.)
Posted by: Danube of Thought | May 20, 2011 at 10:14 AM
I particularly liked this one"
Sure. Assad is going to lead a transition to democracy any day now.
Posted by: Danube of Thought | May 20, 2011 at 10:17 AM
Leading the transition:
Posted by: Danube of Thought | May 20, 2011 at 10:20 AM
Hugo Grotius (1583-1645) on The Laws of War and Peace:
Posted by: Danube of Thought | May 20, 2011 at 10:24 AM
Several blogs have mentioned this Dept. of State announcement that Deputy Sec. Steinberg is visiting Israel, Jerusalem, and the West Bank, as if Jerusalem is a separate entity. Very strange.
Posted by: DebinNC | May 20, 2011 at 10:38 AM
Mel,
Can Norway actually avoid EUrosyphilis? Are they far enough outside the ambit of the great German and French financial brothels to avoid destruction through contagion?
Posted by: Rick Ballard | May 20, 2011 at 10:43 AM
--I think the Apache, Sioux and Aborigines have a lot in common with the Palestinians...--
Me too. When Sitting Bull is sitting in your recliner, deed in hand, and you're camped out in the woods in a pup tent, get back to us on advising the Israelis to do same.
Posted by: Ignatz | May 20, 2011 at 10:45 AM
as if Jerusalem is a separate entity. Very strange.
I hope one of the first acts of the next president, after signing the repeal of Obamacare, is to move the U.S. embassy from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem.
Posted by: jimmyk | May 20, 2011 at 10:57 AM
Can Norway actually avoid EUrosyphilis?
Rick, some doctors believe that oil helps prevent that disease.
Posted by: jimmyk | May 20, 2011 at 10:58 AM
Rick-
They might, because of not being in the EU, but the currency implosion is going to rock the Riksbank pretty hard. The reserves are going to take a pounding. Their oil will probably save them.
Posted by: Melinda Romanoff | May 20, 2011 at 12:27 PM
I know that explaining irony to an aspie boy is like explaining Christmas decorations to a guy who's red-green colorblind, but I can't resist...
My usage of the word "we" was in fact intended as the most facetious element of my original posting. You might have been clued in by the accompanying tongue-in-cheek descent into teen-speak at the end.
When members of a minority attempt to persuade members of the majority to take their side in a particular cause, there is a characteristic imbalance. A member of the minority can be motivated to hold the opinion on two bases: the first is some general principle, while the second basis is merely the self-interest of being advantaged by the outcome. An outsider cannot, by definition, have the second motive, so must necessarily be motivated by general principle.
My example about Medina serves to distinguish between a right of return which is based upon the general principle of the right to live on one's ancestors' land, from a right of return based upon the particular principle of advancing Muslims over Jews. It serves to illustrate the deadly serious point that the general principle of a right to steal other people's property based upon the fact that ones ancestors once owned it is evil and demonic and would lead to the destruction of all civilization if allowed to take hold.
I seem to have totally missed that I inadvertently started a grammar flame-war, because I normally just SOB anduril. When my name in one of his postings caught my eye as I was scrolling on by (that would make a catchy tune...) I had to go back and read all that stuff I missed.Posted by: cathyf | May 20, 2011 at 12:43 PM
Posted by: cathyf | May 20, 2011 at 12:54 PM
cathyf-
They're just Meissen the point.
Posted by: Melinda Romanoff | May 20, 2011 at 01:09 PM
Maybe it's a Valkyrie hoisting giant pottery steins in a tightly laced dirndl.
Posted by: clarice | May 20, 2011 at 01:10 PM
--I know that explaining irony to an aspie boy is like explaining Christmas decorations to a guy who's red-green colorblind--
Heh. That's a keeper.
Posted by: Ignatz | May 20, 2011 at 01:14 PM
The long form response from David Bernstein over at Volokh …
I’d say that Obama has, at best, frozen the peace process in the Middle East. This is the kind of stuff you get for a foreign policy neophyte.
Posted by: Neo | May 20, 2011 at 01:22 PM
cathyf, your 12:43 is excellent in every way. Thanks for taking the time to catch up and respond.
Posted by: Porchlight | May 20, 2011 at 01:32 PM
President Obama's speech yesterday had a built-in applause line on the May 1 killing of Osama bin Laden.
No one in the crowded Benjamin Franklin Room at the State Department applauded.
Posted by: Neo | May 20, 2011 at 02:01 PM
Contrary to received wisdom, an insecure Israel is a belligerent Israel. U.S. policy for the last forty-plus years has been to try to ensure that Israel feels secure so that its peacemaking instincts prevail.
The flip side of this is, of course, that whetting the appetites of Hamas and their ilk with prospects of unilateral territorial concessions only makes them hungry and bloodthirsty for more.
Posted by: jimmyk | May 20, 2011 at 02:03 PM
Contrary to received wisdom, an insecure Palestine is a belligerent Palestine. U.S. policy for the last forty-plus years has been to try to ensure that Palestine feels insecure so that its Israel's colonial prerogatives prevail.
Posted by: bunkerbuster | May 21, 2011 at 02:35 AM
And if "conquest" were an option for Israel, they'd have already taken it.
The wingnuts here seem to have no idea how moronic the conquest claim is and why it's a non-starter for Israel.
Beyond the fact that any claim of conquest turns any and all Palestinian attacks into self-defense, lets assume Netanyahu gets his wish and the Palestinians simply surrender.
From that day forward, Palestinians have the full property rights of Israeli citizens as well as the right to vote.
At that moment, the Israel defense forces would no longer be able to simply shoot suspects on site or bulldoze activists' homes without first providing proof in court and giving the accused a chance to defend themselves.
Jewish colonial enclaves would instantly become illegal, forcing the Israeli court system itself to take up the Palestinian cause of removing them.
This is exactly why Israel is forced to adopt a policy of attrition in which it can't annex the occupied terrorities yet is unwilling to return them to Palestinian control, nor, certainly, to recognize Palestine's right to exist. Instead, Israel's policy is to slowly but surely displace the Palestinian population in the occupied territories with Jews from around the world, given the low birthrate of Israeli Jews.
It will take decades, but Israel is quite willing to endure the security risks it now faces, as long as the Palestinian death toll is many times higher than that for Jews.
Posted by: bunkerbuster | May 21, 2011 at 04:21 AM
I suppose this is like the Affordable Care Act in which you say things that are unlikely to be true to achieve an objective. Charitably, one could see this as a way to oppose recognition of a Palestinian state now at/through the U.N. Internationally the correct myth is that the Palestinians want peace. This provides a counter myth; we support that peace to include the West Bank and the realization of the Palestinians' desire for peace and then see recognition.
Posted by: Michael | May 22, 2011 at 01:36 AM