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May 19, 2011


Danube of Thought

Congratulations to Bubu: second runner-up in the Teenage Political Science essay contest.


This is what I was referring to,


Danube of Thought

I think the Apache, Sioux and Aborigines have a lot in common with the Palestinians

A belief shared only by simpletons. The Apache, Sioux and Aborigines are all on the land where they have historically lived, and are not so abject as to demand some mythical "right of return;" the "Palestinians" elected to leave.

One thing they do have in common is that they were all defeated militarily, the "Palestinians" several times over. Unfortunately, they took the side of the Ottoman Empire, the Third Reich, and the invaders of 1967. Had their conquerors been Arabs on any of those three occasions, every last man, woman and child would have been put to the sword.

Danube of Thought

Give you joy: Pat Condell on the death of bin Laden.


Was sound asleep on the 7th floor but was rudely awoken by a very long earthquake. The place really shook and for quite a while. Thought for awhile ala Fred Sanford "this was the big one Elizabeth, I'm coming to see you", but no, just another 6.0, so caught a little more shuteye when it finally ended.

See LUN.

Man, these poor people have to be getting tired of these things.



Hebron 1929--My grandfather was visiting and missed being slaughtered by one day.

Mark Folkestad

Good grief. Morons in Minneapolis are shocked that Lake Calhoun was named for John C. Calhoun and they are demanding that the city remove the stain of honoring a slavery supporter by changing the name to honor Hubert H. Humphrey.


Hamas speaks:


Captain Hate

Well besides that, narc, he's on to the last refuge of a scoundrel: Immigration reform. I hope his "really big ideas" transfile box is about tapped out. Even I'm feeling sorry for the idiot who is flagrantly violating the first rule of finding himself in a deep hole.

Danube of Thought

Next they'll want to remove the names "Washington" and "Jefferson," for starters, from all landmarks, schools and juridical entities.

Mark Folkestad

I'm very glad Clarice's grandfather was spared by fate. The Religion of Peace showing its true colors.

Similarly, my mother and cousin missed a Puerto Rican separatist bombing in the mid-Seventies. They walked by the locker the bomb was hidden in at La Guardia and it exploded as they left the parking lot.

Danube of Thought

Are we facing the prospect of back-alley circumcisions in San Francisco? I expect cries of outrage from the ACLU any moment now...


The rule is don't bring the semtex, when you're in the hole, I haven't caught the latest Newt foolishness.


I know I've posted this "An Open Letter To The World" by Meir Kahane a couple of times but it just seems appropriate right now. Here's just an excerpt.

Dear world, why did the Arabs - the Palestinians - massacre 67 Jews in one day in 1929? Could it have been their anger over Israeli aggression in 1967?

good nite all, pray for Israel

Jim Miller

King County, where I live, was originally named after William Rufus King.

In 2005 it was renamed it after Martin Luther King, Jr., pleasing one minority and (partly offending another.


I saw that earlier clip on Beck this afternoon, absolutely chilling


looks like the Three Gorges Dam in China is doing really well....not...why is this not surprising? LUN


Doesn't surprise me. It is a fact that the worst environmental hazards are the result of state planning.


Heh, nice try. Here's the true story:

During the 1949 Lausanne conference, Israel proposed allowing the return of 100,000 of the refugees as a goodwill gesture prior to negotiation for the whole refugee population, [17] though not necessarily to their homes, and including 25,000 who had returned surreptitiously and 10,000 family-reunion cases.[18] The proposal was conditional on a peace treaty that would allow Israel to retain the territory it had taken, and on the Arab states absorbing the remaining 550,000–650,000 refugees. "The Arab states rejected the proposal on both moral and political grounds."[19]

That's a perfect example of Israeli bad faith negotiating. They knew perfectly well that that was an unacceptable proposal and would have to be rejected by the Arabs--and that they would be able to use that rejection for propaganda purposes. Ben-Gurion said it all:

"Why should the Arabs make peace? If I was an Arab leader I would never make terms with Israel. That is natural: we have taken their country ... There has been anti-Semitism, the Nazis, Hitler, Auschwitz, but was that their fault? They only see one thing: we have come here and stolen their country. Why should they accept that? They may perhaps forget in one or two generations' time, but for the moment there is no chance. So it is simple: we have to stay strong and maintain a powerful army."[4]

If Ben-Gurion could speak the truth, what's wrong with JOMers who won't listen?


I think the Apache, Sioux and Aborigines have a lot in common with the Palestinians,

More in common with the Jews, actually, since both pre-dated the other inhabitants of their lands.

Danube of Thought

Remember: the pedantic fool is the guy who thinks the congress would enact, and the Supreme Court would uphold, a law prohibiting Muslims from entering the country.

He wishes to be taken seriously? Not in these precincts.


Good God! I see that someone actually quoted jimmyk's racist hero, Meir Kahane!

Kahane's legislative proposals focused on transferring ... Arab population out of Israel, revoking the Israeli citizenship for non-Jews and banning Jewish-Gentile marriages and sexual relations, based on the Code of Jewish Law compiled by Maimonides in the Mishneh Torah.

As his political career progressed, Kahane became increasingly isolated in the Knesset. His speeches, boycotted by Knesset members, were made to an empty parliament, except for the duty chairman and the transcriptionist. Kahane's legislative proposals and motions of no-confidence against the government were ignored or rejected by fellow Knesset members.


Yes, but who will tell Tom Friedman, not that it will matter to his world view.


And yet two future members of the first WTC cell, killed him, despite how irrelevant he was, the question still applies why the rage
of '29, which transferred to the German support for the '36-39' intifada, which they
were rewarded with the White Paper.

Danube of Thought

The numbskull [sic] persists.


For all you nutters who've been foaming at the mouth most of the day today, here's pro-Zionist Walter Russell Mead's take: Obama Embraces His Inner Bush.

Rick Ballard


I'd like to thank you again for allowing me to participate in the Zionist Narcisolator plot against the intellectually bereft.


Glad to do it, Rick.

DOT, I really need to check that email more often. Not that it would help in this case, because I have no idea why that would be happening (and as I'm sure you noticed, trying to Google "google search" is a fool's errand).

Danube of Thought

Yeah. For some reason it makes me think of being in a Klein bottle.


Israel could not simply agree to allow all Palestinians to return, but consistently sought a solution to the refugee problem. Israel’s position was expressed by David Ben-Gurion (August 1, 1948):

"When the Arab states are ready to conclude a peace treaty with Israel this question will come up for constructive solution as part of the general settlement, and with due regard to our counter­claims in respect of the destruction of Jewish life and property, the long-term interest of the Jewish and Arab populations, the stability of the State of Israel and the durability of the basis of peace between it and its neighbors, the actual position and fate of the Jewish communities in the Arab countries, the responsibilities of the Arab governments for their war of aggression and their liability for reparation, will all be relevant in the question whether, to what extent, and under what conditions, the former Arab residents of the territory of Israel should be allowed to return."

The Israeli government was not indifferent to the plight of the refugees; an ordinance was passed creating a Custodian of Abandoned Property “to prevent unlawful occupation of empty houses and business premises, to administer ownerless property, and also to secure tilling of deserted fields, and save the crops....”

The implied danger of repatriation did not prevent Israel from allowing some refugees to return and offering to take back a substantial number as a condition for signing a peace treaty. In 1949, Israel offered to allow families that had been separated during the war to return, to release refugee accounts frozen in Israeli banks (eventually released in 1953), to pay compensation for abandoned lands and to repatriate 100,000 refugees.

The Arabs rejected all the Israeli compromises. They were unwilling to take any action that might be construed as recognition of Israel. They made repatriation a precondition for negotiations, something Israel rejected. The result was the confinement of the refugees in camps.

Despite the position taken by the Arab states, Israel did release the Arab refugees’ blocked bank accounts, which totaled more than $10 million, paid thousands of claimants cash compensation and granted thousands of acres as alternative holdings.



I think this speech is helping a lot of pundits fill a lot of space but George Mitchell has resigned. No one has replaced him. No new negotiation sessions are scheduled and if this is more than campaign folderol, perhaps of a sort which like Gingrich's is blowing up in the narcissist's face, I'd be astonished. As it was from Day One, Obama's foreign policy is on the fly, incoherent, and done only for what he perceives is in his interest as a candidate.

Rick Ballard

The Italian press is reporting that Obama's speech was wildly successful in uniting Hamas with the Netanyahu position. Apparently they're telling BOzo to get stuffed just as vociferously as did Bibi.

It's great to see both sides agree so quickly.


True, but the signal he is sending to the Palestinians, ahead of the September UN General Assemblymeeting, which are always problematic, is not reassuring,In other news



Wow, that was as successful as the 'Martyr's
Sea' ceremony, for the Prince of Abbottabad
Gardens, I have to recycle that line.


Looks like you were right, Rich, 'Mission Accomplished ?






There's no speech Obama could have given that wouldn't have resulted in Hamas saying he was leaning toward Israel. The term "shifting goalposts" was invented for the Arabs and their propaganda strategy. If he had said it is time to dissolve the state of Israel and let the Palestinians move in and take over, Hamas would have said, "Outrageous! No reparations?!"

Danube of Thought

Clinton learned that lesson eleven years ago, jimmyk. The current clueless dope will learn it for himself.


Clarice--12:08--Megadittos! There is no conspiracy except that of the dunces who say and believe what they think the elite and powerful would like to hear. We have elected the supreme example. Obama knows and does nothing that he doesn't think would meet with the approval of the Harvard faculty. No actual thought or analysis is involved.


I'm in the middle of Michael Totten's latest, which doesn't allow for much doubt about the players in the region. Funny how reality clashes with the political agendae of the asshats in Washington.

Hezbollah and Hamas, along with their sponsors, Syria and Iran, want to wipe Israel from the map. That Iranian frigate dropped off more rockets a couple of months back, and Hamas is biding their time. In the meantime, the MB is gaining influence in Egypt and elsewhere. The Turks are clearly Islamist.

A part of this is the old "external threat" bugaboo of every dictator in history, and a part is simple hard core ethnic cleansing. Most of these assholes actually believe the shit the mullahs pronounce shit. Anybody expecting to deflower 72 virgins upon entry into paradise is an asshole.

Fatah, who are the genesis of the PA, were the people blowing up planes in the 70's and killing .

In the meantime, Obama's favorite dictators, potentates and Muslim Brothers have all been screaming for the blood of the Jew. This transcends the politics of the moment, which will allow one election before the new bosses install themselves.

Don't worry. We're in the best of hands....having read Lawrence when young, it's nice to romanticize the Bedouin, who are not really part of the problem, but we have to accept the fact that the oligarchs have been using the crisis to reinforce their power for the past 100 years. From the Grand Mufti to Abbas to Nasrallah. Kill'em all as far as I'm concerned.


Wingnut: All Israel wants is peace.
Palestinian: All I want is my land back.
Wingnut: Israel conquered it. It's theirs now.
Palestinian: I see. Surely Israel will understand, then, if we try to conquer it back, right?
Wingnut: How do you expect Israel to negotiate if you won't renounce violence?
Palestinian: Why would we renounce violence if Israel won't negotiate?
Wingnut: But Israel will negotiate, if you renounce violence.
Palestinian: But you said Israel had already conquered us. What's to negotiate?
Wingnut: The terms of your surrender.
Palestinian: I see, so when you said all Israel wants is peace, what you really meant was all Israel wants is conquest.
Wingnut: Look, Israel gave you many chances to compromise.
Palestinian: Look, we gave Israel many chances to compromise.
Wingnut: Anti-semite!

Sara (Pal2Pal)

No comment!


El Cheapo vs Obamagas: Pull On In and Put Some Hope in Your Tank

Sara (Pal2Pal)

Who said this:

“I am a supporter of waterboarding. It is not torture. Torture is really hurting someone. Waterboarding is just scaring someone, with no long-term injurious effects. It is a scare tactic that works.”

Probably one of our foremost experts on the subject of torture and it effects.


Take a gander at Palestinian school textbooks and then tell me they want peace!

I. Name of book: Al-Mutalaa Wa-Al-Nussous Al-Adabia, for the 8th grade

Page 117:

* Everything previously written leads to the conclusion that Zionism constitutes a threat to all Arabs and must be fought by each and every Arab.

* Zionism is poised to take over the rest of Jerusalem and its holy sites and, thereafter, to continue, step by step, to complete its control of Palestine. In the third stage, it will invade Jordan, Syria, Lebanon and the rest of the Arab states. This will happen unless the Arabs take serious steps to exterminate the Zionist germ and thrust this evil out of the Arab homeland. If the Arabs ignore the danger that threatens them with destruction and avoid taking the necessary action, they will share the same fate as that of their Palestinian brothers.

II. Name of book:
Al-Mutalaa Wa-Al-Nussous Al-Adabia for the 8th grade

Page 120:

* My brother, the oppressor has crossed the line and the time has come for jihad and martyrdom.

III. Name of book:
Lughatuna Al-Arabia, for the 7th grade

Part 2, page 17:

* The year 1948 is known as the year of the "Great Crime", when the "gang state" was established by means of invasion and conquest of towns and villages and abuse of their residents. Examples of this are the Dir Yassin massacre, the Kibya massacre, the Kafr Kassem massacre and others.

IV. Name of book:
Altarbia Alwanya, for the 6th grade

* Page 15:

a. Photo: The jihad-fighter, Iz a-Din al-Kassam

b. A map of Israeli settlements in the West Bank and the Gaza strip.

Teach your children well huh?


The current clueless dope will learn it for himself.

That's very generous, DOT. I've seen no evidence that he's capable of learning anything. He just digs in deeper.


I don't remember if this was mentioned, but the speech was apparently timed in order to pre-empt a late-May Congressional address by Netanyahu. All of this is positioning ahead of a September UN vote on a Palestinian state.

Obama and Netanyahu, Distrustful Allies, to Meet


This is 'unexpected' right, well a pupil of Ayer, Wright, Khalidi, et al, could do no other:



I guess we should give half of Poland "back" to Germany, since the Poles are only there as a result of conquest in WW II.

What? Germany attacked Poland? Then they were defeated and lost territory as a result? Never mind.




I blame this on Meryl Nass and Rosenberg, and her spokespeople, Rozen and Kristof, who insisted it had to be Ft. Dietrich personnel, first Hatfill then Ivins. As if Biopreporat
personnel or some other state defense enterprise couldn't have been involved.


Lest anyone say Zionists want peace, they can be directed to the many wingnut blogs like this on, where Zionists openly demand the right of conquest over Palestinian territory and openly deny the right of Palestine to exist.
Unsurprisingly, these same people insist that Palestinians should somehow ignore the Zionist claim to supremacy and unilaterally disarm and adopt pacifism in order to speed the day when Israel completes its displacement and/or removal of all Palestinians from the occupied territories.


'Shirley, you can't be serious'



Narciso, I just came off the bender that Daddy forced on me. I cannot open a Lindsey link right now.

Rick Ballard

Assad only killed nine #tweeters in response to the Obamababble incitement. That's more than 1% of the number killed to date in the Syrian part of the Obama "let's all come together and kill" Arab Spring but a bit below average for a Friday.

I'm sure Assad will do better tomorrow.


Assad is a Zionist?


I'm sure Assad will do better tomorrow.

Hope so, since it's Judgement Day.

Melinda Romanoff


EU is front burner, today. The Spanish and Italian's are going ape. Norway has stopped its aid payments to Greece.

Very ugly going into Spanish elections this weekend.

Danube of Thought

openly demand the right of conquest over Palestinian territory and openly deny the right of Palestine to exist.

The right of conquest has been recognized since time immemorial. Israel seized and held territory from which it was invaded, in accordance with the age-old custom of war.

Palestine has never existed. Why does it have a right to exist now, and on Israeli soil? (Israel doesn't deny it a right to exist in any event. It's simply a question of where it is to exist.)

Danube of Thought

I particularly liked this one"

“The Syrian people have shown their courage in demanding a transition to democracy. President Assad now has a choice: He can lead that transition, or get out of the way.”

Sure. Assad is going to lead a transition to democracy any day now.

Danube of Thought

Leading the transition:

Syrian security forces fired live rounds into crowds gathered for at least two protests in the central city of Homs, an activist in the city said, as pro-democracy demonstrations erupted across the country on Friday.

The Syrian Observatory for Human Rights said the coastal city of Banias, which was stormed by the army this month, witnessed the largest demonstration since the uprising began in southern Syria nine weeks ago. (Reuters)

Danube of Thought

Hugo Grotius (1583-1645) on The Laws of War and Peace:

IF INDIVIDUALS can reduce each other to subjection, it is not surprising that states can do the same, and by this means acquire a civil, absolute, or mixed, dominion. So that, in the language of Tertullian, victory has often been the foundation of dominion, and it often happens, as Quintilian remarks, that the boundaries of states and kingdoms, of nations and cities, can only be settled by the laws of war.

Quintus Curtius relates of Alexander, that he said, it was for conquerors to dictate laws, which the conquered were bound to receive. This has always been a general opinion and rule, thus Ariovistus, in Caesar, laid it down as an indubitable right of war, for the conqueror to impose whatever terms he pleased upon the conquered, nor did he suppose the Roman people would allow any one to interpose with them in the discretionary use of this right.

By conquest, a prince succeeds to all the rights of the conquered sovereign or state; and if it be a common. wealth, he acquires all the rights and privileges, which the people possessed. He gains the same right, which the state had before, to alienate the possessions, or to transmit them if he chuses to his descendants, by which means they will become a patrimonial territory.


Several blogs have mentioned this Dept. of State announcement that Deputy Sec. Steinberg is visiting Israel, Jerusalem, and the West Bank, as if Jerusalem is a separate entity. Very strange.

Rick Ballard


Can Norway actually avoid EUrosyphilis? Are they far enough outside the ambit of the great German and French financial brothels to avoid destruction through contagion?


--I think the Apache, Sioux and Aborigines have a lot in common with the Palestinians...--

Me too. When Sitting Bull is sitting in your recliner, deed in hand, and you're camped out in the woods in a pup tent, get back to us on advising the Israelis to do same.


as if Jerusalem is a separate entity. Very strange.

I hope one of the first acts of the next president, after signing the repeal of Obamacare, is to move the U.S. embassy from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem.


Can Norway actually avoid EUrosyphilis?

Rick, some doctors believe that oil helps prevent that disease.

Melinda Romanoff


They might, because of not being in the EU, but the currency implosion is going to rock the Riksbank pretty hard. The reserves are going to take a pounding. Their oil will probably save them.

And my correction of cathyf had a non-grammatical point--which was to point out that she was using "we" as if the US should be involved in her facetiously hypothetical example.
I seem to have totally missed that I inadvertently started a grammar flame-war, because I normally just SOB anduril. When my name in one of his postings caught my eye as I was scrolling on by (that would make a catchy tune...) I had to go back and read all that stuff I missed.

I know that explaining irony to an aspie boy is like explaining Christmas decorations to a guy who's red-green colorblind, but I can't resist...

My usage of the word "we" was in fact intended as the most facetious element of my original posting. You might have been clued in by the accompanying tongue-in-cheek descent into teen-speak at the end.

When members of a minority attempt to persuade members of the majority to take their side in a particular cause, there is a characteristic imbalance. A member of the minority can be motivated to hold the opinion on two bases: the first is some general principle, while the second basis is merely the self-interest of being advantaged by the outcome. An outsider cannot, by definition, have the second motive, so must necessarily be motivated by general principle.

My example about Medina serves to distinguish between a right of return which is based upon the general principle of the right to live on one's ancestors' land, from a right of return based upon the particular principle of advancing Muslims over Jews. It serves to illustrate the deadly serious point that the general principle of a right to steal other people's property based upon the fact that ones ancestors once owned it is evil and demonic and would lead to the destruction of all civilization if allowed to take hold.

I do hope Frau can explain what a teutonic shift is.

Maybe it's a Valkyrie chemise.

Well, since it's plates that shift, maybe it has something to do with German pottery?

Melinda Romanoff


They're just Meissen the point.


Maybe it's a Valkyrie hoisting giant pottery steins in a tightly laced dirndl.


--I know that explaining irony to an aspie boy is like explaining Christmas decorations to a guy who's red-green colorblind--

Heh. That's a keeper.


The long form response from David Bernstein over at Volokh

Israel necessarily gives up tangible assets (land) for promises of peace. Israel is willing to do only if her government trusts the U.S. When President Obama ignores promises made to Ariel Sharon by Obama’s predecessor in exchange for withdrawal from Gaza–that American policy started from the premise that Israel would keep the settlement blocs–that trust evaporates.
In 1956, Israel withdrew from Sinai in exchange for an American promise that it would use military force, if necessary, to keep the Suez Canal open to Israeli shipping. When Nasser closed the Canal in 1967, Johnson reneged on this promise. Backed into a corner, Israel preemptively struck at Egypt and Syria, and Jordan, too, when it chose to involve itself in the conflict.
Contrary to received wisdom, an insecure Israel is a belligerent Israel. U.S. policy for the last forty-plus years has been to try to ensure that Israel feels secure so that its peacemaking instincts prevail. I think that if Obama has indeed tossed out Bush’s promises from only seven years ago, the cause of peace is being harmed.

I’d say that Obama has, at best, frozen the peace process in the Middle East. This is the kind of stuff you get for a foreign policy neophyte.


cathyf, your 12:43 is excellent in every way. Thanks for taking the time to catch up and respond.


President Obama's speech yesterday had a built-in applause line on the May 1 killing of Osama bin Laden.

And after years of war against al Qaeda and its affiliates, we have dealt al Qaeda a huge blow by killing its leader, Osama bin Laden.

[Pause. Silence.]

No one in the crowded Benjamin Franklin Room at the State Department applauded.


Contrary to received wisdom, an insecure Israel is a belligerent Israel. U.S. policy for the last forty-plus years has been to try to ensure that Israel feels secure so that its peacemaking instincts prevail.

The flip side of this is, of course, that whetting the appetites of Hamas and their ilk with prospects of unilateral territorial concessions only makes them hungry and bloodthirsty for more.


Contrary to received wisdom, an insecure Palestine is a belligerent Palestine. U.S. policy for the last forty-plus years has been to try to ensure that Palestine feels insecure so that its Israel's colonial prerogatives prevail.


And if "conquest" were an option for Israel, they'd have already taken it.
The wingnuts here seem to have no idea how moronic the conquest claim is and why it's a non-starter for Israel.
Beyond the fact that any claim of conquest turns any and all Palestinian attacks into self-defense, lets assume Netanyahu gets his wish and the Palestinians simply surrender.
From that day forward, Palestinians have the full property rights of Israeli citizens as well as the right to vote.
At that moment, the Israel defense forces would no longer be able to simply shoot suspects on site or bulldoze activists' homes without first providing proof in court and giving the accused a chance to defend themselves.
Jewish colonial enclaves would instantly become illegal, forcing the Israeli court system itself to take up the Palestinian cause of removing them.
This is exactly why Israel is forced to adopt a policy of attrition in which it can't annex the occupied terrorities yet is unwilling to return them to Palestinian control, nor, certainly, to recognize Palestine's right to exist. Instead, Israel's policy is to slowly but surely displace the Palestinian population in the occupied territories with Jews from around the world, given the low birthrate of Israeli Jews.
It will take decades, but Israel is quite willing to endure the security risks it now faces, as long as the Palestinian death toll is many times higher than that for Jews.


I suppose this is like the Affordable Care Act in which you say things that are unlikely to be true to achieve an objective. Charitably, one could see this as a way to oppose recognition of a Palestinian state now at/through the U.N. Internationally the correct myth is that the Palestinians want peace. This provides a counter myth; we support that peace to include the West Bank and the realization of the Palestinians' desire for peace and then see recognition.

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