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The NY Times notes that the Republican Party is drifting away from reflexive hawkishness:

Candidates Show G.O.P. Less United on Goals of War
By JEFF ZELENY

DERRY, N.H. — The hawkish consensus on national security that has dominated Republican foreign policy for the last decade is giving way to a more nuanced view, with some presidential candidates expressing a desire to withdraw from Afghanistan as quickly as possible and suggesting that the United States has overreached in Libya.

The shift, while incremental so far, appears to mark a separation from a post-Sept. 11 posture in which Republicans were largely united in supporting an aggressive use of American power around the world. A new debate over the costs and benefits of deploying the military reflects the length of the conflicts in Afghanistan and Iraq, the difficulty of building functional governments and the financial burden at home in a time of extreme fiscal pressure.

This creates an interesting dynamic as The Man Who Got Osama prepares his summer-time seance on Afghanistan.  On the one hand, Obama risks being outflanked on the left by an anti-war Republican.  On the other hand, The Man Who Got Osama might believe that he has acquired enough national security cred that he can safely unleash his inner George McGovern.

 

Comments

[matt]

first?

[Clarice]

He's already unleashed his inner Jimmy Carter,why not go all the way?

[narciso]

What, Zeleny wasn't 'enchanted' about all of this, there were some flip comments in that debate, but nowhere enough to justify the spin that he puts on it.

[Rob Crawford]

The NY Times notes that the Republican Party is drifting away from reflexive hawkishness:

What "reflexive hawkishness"?

[Danube of Thought]

This should be loads of fun:

A group of lawmakers plans to file a federal lawsuit Wednesday against the Obama administration, questioning the constitutional and legal justifications for military action in Libya, Fox News has confirmed.

The bipartisan group is being led by Reps. Dennis Kucinich, D-Ohio, and Walter Jones, R-N.C., and includes GOP presidential candidate Rep. Ron Paul.

Kucinich and Jones will lead a news conference at the U.S. District Court in Washington, D.C., to outline the claims. But according to the complaint, a copy of which was obtained by Fox News, the group is seeking "injunctive and declaratory relief to protect the plaintiffs and the country from a stated policy of defendant Barack Obama, president of the United States, whereby a president may unilaterally go to war in Libya and other countries without the declaration of war from Congress required by Article I, Section 8, Clause 11 of the United States Constitution."

I'm sure the court will be delighted to find this on its plate.

[Ranger]

I'm sure the court will be delighted to find this on its plate.

I would think a judge would be more than happy to point out that the congress has within its power the ability to impeach a president that wilfully exceeds the constitutional limits of the office.

[Jane (sit on the couch or save your country)]

If we aren't in it to win it, and that appears the least of Obama's goals, I think we should get out.

I'd be interested to know what Dot and the rest of you military gurus think.

[Ranger]

File this under the "its not the stupidity, its the cover-up" heading:

Did Holder deputy lie to Congress about Operation Fast and Furious?

The House Oversight Committee has released interviews with four ATF agents indicate that a top official in the Department of Justice may have lied to, or at the least misled, Congress on a controversial operation that put guns in the hands of Mexican drug cartels, one of which was used to kill a Border Patrol agent. Ronald Welch, a Deputy Attorney General under Eric Holder, assured Congress in writing that the ATF and Department of Justice “made every effort” [to] seize all illegally-purchased weapons. However, the ATF agents testifed that the ATF and DoJ deliberately allowed hundreds of such weapons to cross the border as part of Operation Fast and Furious...

[Danube of Thought]

The court will avoid ruling on the law or entering any order directed to the president; that seems certain to me. The impeachment power is one way out, and the "political question" doctrine is another.

I would bet a handsome sum that it won't reacj the question of the Act's constitutionality.

[Danube of Thought]

*reach*

[Jim,MtnViewCA,USA]

Comment seen on another blog:
Weiner-Holder 2012

[MarkO]

Apparently, no one has been able to cancel TM's subscription to the Times.

Speaking of doom, what about Jeter?

[narciso]

You know I hate to be in the company of Kucinich, Jones, et al, because they have no understanding of the needs of legitimate presidential power, OTHOH, Obama has no legitimate interest either.

Meanwhile, this piece, dated before the
'round up the usual suspects roundup, shows how effective 'smart diplomacy is:

http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,2077103,00.html

[narciso]

Here is the Belmont piece, I referred to, earlier:

http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/2011/06/14/sign-and-countersign/

[Threadkiller]

I share the same view, narciso. But when Tom McClintock sides with Kucinich I pay attention.
Video

Text

”M. Speaker: Lets be clear: without prior Congressional authorization, under the War Powers Act, the President may only commit armed forces to hostilities for sixty days if there is a direct attack upon the United States, its territories or possessions or its armed forces. There was none, so there is no sixty day clock and the President’s unprovoked attack on Libya – from Day One – constituted an illegal and unconstitutional act of the highest significance.”

Would the court define the "sixty day clock"?

[MayBee]

What "reflexive hawkishness"?

My question exactly, Rob.

[Jim Rhoads a/k/a vnjagvet]

It looks to me like some of the Kucinich plaintiffs might be in the Libya suit for pure political symbolism. It certainly has no legal merit for the reasons Ranger and DOT point out.

[Jim Ryan]

Here's the roll call on Coburn's anti-ethanol bill. Plenty of GOP voted for ethanol (Nay). Webb voted against the boondoggle (Yea). WaTimes report.

What an easy issue to rally muddle with, for a pol with the gift of gab. "Isn't he the candidate who wants to get rid of that stupid ethanol boondoggle? I'm gonna vote for that guy. Wait, he's the light-bulb guy, too? I'm for him." Etc.

[narciso]

The hypocrisy of liberals is nearly mindblowing, re Obama's piece in the Sun Dial, Biden's support of the nuclear freeze,
opposition to the Contras, yet now they stand
for 'kinetic military action'

[narciso]

Btw, TM, an oldy by goody, and remember who warned us:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20110615/bs_nm/us_usa_economy_prices;_ylt=AmFOebErJlseCjt.JxfFEtiyBhIF;_ylu=X3oDMTJtaTgyMXNvBGFzc2V0A25tLzIwMTEwNjE1L3VzX3VzYV9lY29ub215X3ByaWNlcwRjcG9zAzIEcG9zAzUEc2VjA3luX3RvcF9zdG9yeQRzbGsDbWF5Y29yZWNwaXBv

[Jim Ryan]

So, scores of golden eagles have to die. At least the earth will be cooler.

[Danube of Thought]

Jane, from the very beginning I thought our objectives in Afghanistan should have been limited to ousting the Taliban regime and preventing the country from being used as an Al Qaeda training ground. I never thought nation-building was necessary, nor that it would succeed.

But the facts on the ground now are quite different: for better or worse, we have made this a test case, and I think a withdrawal on a basis that the jihadists see as a US humiliation will have unhappy repercussions in many places.

So I'd like to see us disengage on some basis that avoids that humiliation. And I have no idea how that could be accomplished.

[narciso]

In a different context, this would be the premise of a law & order episode,

http://minx.cc/?post=317627

[Extraneus]

Rush's big secret, finally revealed. Iced tea.

[Clarice]

Boy, narciso. that is some scenario, isn't it?

[Pofarmer]

I'd say any opposition to action in Libya is less about reduced hawkishness, and more opposition to a dumbassed policy with absolutely no plan.

[Jane (sit on the couch or save your country)]

DOt,

How, when, did the mission change, and at whose request?

[Danube of Thought]

I don't know that I can oinpoint a time, but I think that not long after the Taliban fell the Bush administration undertook the nation-building effort. Obama has doubled down on it.

[Extraneus]

Not to mention distrust in the CinC's motives.

[narciso]

Well that goes without saying, but the notion was to support the Karzai govt, something we didn't do with Massoud, after the Russians pulled out, and Hekmatyar and the other groups
fell to feuding.

[Jane (sit on the couch or save your country)]

Hmm, I thought we sort of ignored Afghanistan when we into Iraq, and as little as I know about these things I thought that was a good idea.

[Extraneus]

Tsk, tsk...

Porn actress: Weiner asked me to lie about talks

[Jane (sit on the couch or save your country)]

The third democrat MA speaker of the house has just been found guilty of conspiracy, extortion and fraud.

[Jim Rhoads a/k/a vnjagvet]

OOOOH NOOOOOOO.

With Gloria Allred on the case, Weinergate will never die. Ta Ta Weiner.

[threadkiller]

obama knocks automation. come on, it's not like we will ever have a teleprompter instead of a human for our president.

[Frau Adlerauge]

Seen one, seen them all moment: CA's golden eagles meet wind turbines and die. At least they died *quickly* and were not slowly poisoned by diesel and gasoline fumes. ::crickets::

[narciso]

heh, I'm sure he felt the same way I month ago,

http://legalinsurrection.blogspot.com/2011/06/your-comments-about-spiking-footballs.html

[Dave (in MA)]

__________consecutive

The third ^democrat MA speaker of the house has just been found guilty of conspiracy, extortion and fraud.

[matt]

from 2001 - 2006 we basically ignored and underfunded the effort in Afghanistan, allowing the Tollybons to gain strength in the south of the country. Financial aid to Karzai disappeared down a rathole while opium/heroin production skyrocketed from an already high level. This same opium has helped fuel corruption and the Taliban. They're all in it together from Karzai's brother to the Qetta Shura.

In Ought 6, GWB decided we had better get things back under control and we began adding troops and nation building. The results according to any metric have been abysmal.

We maintain control of the areas we are in during the day and the Taliban slips in at night to intimidate the locals and whisper "the Americans will be gone in a couple of years and we're watching". Nation building outside of a few areas is a joke. There is no nation to build. Almost all of our allies have left the building and the Haqqanis and Taliban are hitting where we ain't.

At this point, the title of the book about Petraeus and the Iraq surge, "Tell me how this ends?" comes to mind.

In the meantime, back at the ranch, my latest, on AGW and the new Little Ice Age LUN.

[Dave (in MA)]

Jane, and thanks to the desire to not appear racist after the Wilkerson and Turner cases ended up with imprisonment, look for a real prison sentence being handed down, not just a naughty-naughty and a radio show.

[matt]

oops, that is a work related post. Here's the good one. Hey, at least it wasn't a pic of my oiled bod or clothed in tighty whities.

[Dave (in MA)]

obama knocks automation. come on, it's not like we will ever have a teleprompter instead of a human for our president.

Now we have former cue card holders who can't afford to feed their families.

[Rocco]

Allred/Weiner, there has to be a joke in there somewhere. Back to work!

[glasater]

Saw a twitter link regarding Zero's wanting to get Libya's money to redistribute to who knows where but cannot find it now.

[Frau Flüssiges Brot]

What happened to the photo of the plastic Weiner? In case TK saw it and was driven to drink, here's a suggestion from Utah.

"Bring some home to the wives."

[narciso]

Likely he doesn't know, so why expect one to figure it out.

[Clarice]

That's how we know we now have an official scandal, the champion of damsels in distress (and in need of an audience), Gloria Allred , has appeared on the scene.

Hosannah!

[Jim Rhoads a/k/a vnjagvet]

One of the commenters on the article linked by narciso notes that LaFollette is slow rolling publication until June 29th, and that "once the bill is published, there is an expectation that new legal challenges will be filed in court".

What are the odds that a new lawsuit will be ready for filing June 30th?

Until someone embalms, cremates and buries the bill's opposition, Walker may not be home free.

[narciso]

Now Gore is just being cruel, here, in the LUN

[Clarice]

Maybe someone should suggest impeaching LaFollette for failing to perform his constitutional duties.

[sbw]

"sixty day clock"?

Business days.

[Sara (Pal2Pal)]

Edwards mugshot:

JammieWearingFool says:

It really shouldn't be this hard to distinguish between a guy's mug shot and his official Senate photo.

[glasater]

The Senate has introduced a bi-partisan bill -- S. 1180 -- titled:

To authorize the President to confiscate and vest certain property of the Government of Libya and to authorize the use of that property to provide humanitarian relief to and for the benefit of the people of Libya, and for other purposes.

Giving "other purposes" to Obama?

[Melinda Romanoff]

Sara-

Too funny!

[Frau Flüssiges Brot]

Who will catch The Nuclear Regulatory Commission Chairman Gingerbread Man?

The report, which was released last week, said (Gregory) Jaczko “strategically” withheld key information from his fellow commissioners about his intentions to close a technical review of the Yucca Mountain project’s license application. The majority of NRC commissioners ultimately disagreed with Jaczko’s decision, the report says.

[PD]

Allred/Weiner, there has to be a joke in there somewhere. Back to work!

Too bad her name isn't Allbeef.

[Extraneus]

If they approve that bill, isn't it an implicit AUMF?

[anduril]

Rush's big secret, finally revealed. Iced tea.

What am I not getting? I thought his big secret was what you get if you google "rush limbaugh dominican republic viagra".

the Republican Party is drifting away from reflexive hawkishness

And about time, too. For starters, 1) it's wrong as policy and 2) we can't afford it.

[Extraneus]

I didn't read the whole thing, but

Sec. 209

(c) Authorization of Confiscation of Property of the Government of Libya-

`(1) IN GENERAL- The President--

`(A) may confiscate and vest, through instructions or licenses or in such other manner as the President determines appropriate, funds and other property of the Government of Libya that are subject to the jurisdiction of the United States in the amounts specified in subsection (f);

[anduril]

Excellent post by Steve Sailer: "Porn Star". Excerpt:

Here's a suggestion that will never, ever be taken up: Can we stop using the term "porn star," which implies, well, sure, I'm in porn, but I'm a star!

My recommended replacement term: "porn whore."

Another recommendation: Gay Pride Parade be renamed Gay Narcissism and Exhibitionism Parade.

[glasater]

Well heck Ext -- you're making me do my homework here....

But under subsection (f) there are two figures that make my eyes glaze over (hereinafter known as MEGO) and the first is:

4,000,000,000

In addition to the above figure is:

2,000,000,000

ISTM that the bill the way it is written hangs a bunch of requirements on the administration to show how the money is handled.

[MayBee]

Here's a suggestion that will never, ever be taken up: Can we stop using the term "porn star," which implies, well, sure, I'm in porn, but I'm a star!

What's with the word "implies" there? It's simply true. There are people in porn who are indeed stars in that field.
Does "star" carry a value judgement with it? Is there a moral implication to the word? I don't think so.

[Extraneus]

Good to know I was once a rock "star."

On second thought, DO NOT Google Ginger Lee. (I'm serious.) She was/is apparently MUCH more of a "star" than I ever was.

[Rocco]

We should start calling him Antranny Weiner.

[MayBee]

I don't like porn, I don't watch it, and I think it is often exploitive and sad. The life of a porn actress can indeed be very tawdry.
But I also live where many former porn stars live, and I can tell you their houses look like the houses of stars.

[anduril]

Is there a moral implication to the word? I don't think so.

I think there is a value judgment implied in the word. For example, we don't speak of star murderers or star hookers--although that's exactly what a "porn star" is: someone who engages in sex for money. "Star" doesn't normally mean merely that a person is good at what they do or well known for what they do. It carries the implication that the activity in which they engage has, at a minimum, some social legitimacy. More often, most often, it suggests that they are engaged in some admirable activity--a star athlete, etc.

Webster's relegates this meaning to 5:

5. a: the principal member of a theatrical or operatic company who usually plays the chief roles

b : a highly publicized theatrical or motion-picture performer

c : an outstandingly talented performer, a track star

d : a person who is preeminent in a particular field

However, the principal meaning--from which the metaphorical meaning is derived--contains a distinctly positive connotation:

1: a natural luminous body visible in the sky especially at night

For that reason I believe that the use of the word "star" lessens the natural opprobrium attached to such a profession.

[anduril]

The life of a porn actress can indeed be very tawdry.

Well, that's a classic of understatement.

But I also live where many former porn stars live, and I can tell you their houses look like the houses of stars.

Precisely. In current America there appears to be a decided tendency to blur the difference between moral values and remuneration, to judge social legitimacy by status as measured by money. If you do sex on the street to feed your crack habit, that's one thing and you're not a "star," but you're a "star" if your paid sex allows you to afford a certain type of house.

[MayBee]

If you do sex on the street to feed your crack habit, that's one thing and you're not a "star," but you're a "star" if your paid sex allows you to afford a certain type of house.

The same is true of acting. I mean, take out the actual sex (on screen) and substitute it with showing yourself naked or simulating sex.

You do that on the street corner to feed your crack habit, and you aren't a star. You do it on the big screen and get enough fans and can afford a certain kind of house, and you're a star.

[MayBee]

Frankly, I think objecting to the term "porn star" and wanting to use the term "porn whore" goes beyond the natural opprobrium tied to the profession.

[anduril]

Me: If you do sex on the street to feed your crack habit, that's one thing and you're not a "star," but you're a "star" if your paid sex allows you to afford a certain type of house.

Maybee: The same is true of acting. ...

You do that on the street corner to feed your crack habit, and you aren't a star. You do it on the big screen and get enough fans and can afford a certain kind of house, and you're a star.

1. I'm not aware of people acting on street corners to feed their crack habits--I suspect those who have tried it end up doing without their crack.

2. OTOH, amateur and semi-pro theatricals are relatively popular. Those who are involved aren't stars and aren't rich, but neither does any moral opprobrium attach to their activities.

Frankly, I think objecting to the term "porn star" and wanting to use the term "porn whore" goes beyond the natural opprobrium tied to the profession.

I could kinda tell that, from your first post. Judging from your determination (4 posts) to minimize the opprobrium Sailer attaches to involvement in porn films, it's pretty clear you have some axe to grind.

[Extraneus]

The life of a porn actress can indeed be very tawdry.

Heh.

[MayBee]

Anduril,
First of all, yes, people do act on street corners to support their crack habit. Or meth habit. Whichever. You've never seen street performers?

Second, I specifically mentioned being naked and simulating sex. Like, I don't know, a stripper feeding her crack habit. Or Marisa Tomei in The Wrestler, playing a stripper.

[MayBee]

it's pretty clear you have some axe to grind.

Really?

No, the need to call out "whores!" just reminds me of the God Hates Fags group. Or Ted Haggarty preaching against the gays.

[anduril]

Me: it's pretty clear you have some axe to grind.

Maybee: Really?

No, the need to call out "whores!" just reminds me of the God Hates Fags group. Or Ted Haggarty preaching against the gays.

Yes, really.

1. Sailer is hardly to be equated with any of the people you mention. In fact, I was rather surprised that he posted on the topic--but I was appreciative, since I feel the same way about the creeping legitimization of immorality.

2. To the best of my knowledge, I've never heard of Marisa Tomei, of The Wrestler, of Ted Haggerty or of the "God Hates Fags" group. You'll do better to take that up with people who know something about them. Sailer's background is somewhat similar to my own, which has nothing to do with the fundamentalism of so many here.

3. "Whores" has a pretty specific meaning, one that seems to apply quite well to actors/actresses in the porn industry. You obviously disagree, for reasons of your own. Fine.

4. You're up to 6 posts now. It's clear that you feel VERY strongly about this, i.e., have a particular axe to grind. Grind away if you wish. In the meantime, I'll read an improving book.

[Jane]

Maybee,

Thank you for getting rid of Anduril. We all appreciate it. Just remember the subject so you can use it as needed.

[hit and run]

You're up to 6 posts now. It's clear that you feel VERY strongly about this, i.e., have a particular axe to grind.

Word Count on comments relating to Porn Stars:

MayBee: 395
anduril: 816

[Extraneus]

Come on! Don't I get a count? I just about linked Gennifer Lee, for heaven's sake. (That may well be where anduril is now, but DO NOT go there, people, especially not to Google Images.)

Btw, are you counting the quotes of others' posts?

[MayBee]

ha.

[Extraneus]

Heh. Ginger, not Gennifer. Sorry I had to go back to check that.

[MayBee]

Are you sure, Ext? Should you maybe check just one more time?

[Extraneus]

All I did was review my 6:12 post. Honest!

[Extraneus]

I'm much more interested in soft-core, MayBee. Truth be told.

[hit and run]

Ext:
Btw, are you counting the quotes of others' posts?

Absolutely. Definitely part of the grinding.

And yes,I mean grinding in exactly the way you think I do.

[MayBee]

Is it that bad? I trusted you enough not to look.

[Extraneus]

Research, only! I did get a haircut today, though, if that gets me any points.

[hit and run]

Ext:
Come on! Don't I get a count?

Word count for Extraneus on comments relating to porn stars (at the time of posting the count for anduril and MayBee: 63

But if a visual image is worth a thousand words.....

[daddy]

I am sick and tired of hearing about corn stars.

[glasater]

Red Eye is having too much fun with the Gloria Allred clip reading A Weiner's messages to Ginger. It is a total riot!

I think the porn star is a very "seasoned athlete" type.

[wholesale nfl jerseys]

On the one hand, Obama risks being outflanked on the left by an anti-war Republican.

[Charlie (Colorado)]

I don't like porn, I don't watch it, and I think it is often exploitive and sad. The life of a porn actress can indeed be very tawdry.

MayBee already pointed out that this isn't dramatically different from lots of other people who do movies, so I'll just note that at least in porn, they tell you they're gonna do it to you, and you get kissed afterward.

[2011 soccer jerseys]

oh. good it's , i like .