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July 01, 2011

Comments

Sara (Pal2Pal)

This all hinges on the word of 2 cops? I think I agree with Jimmy.

MayBee

What is interesting is the story does not indicate she ever lied about what happened.

Just that she lied (perhaps) to get asylum. And she is possibly involved with drug trafficking or drug traffickers.

One of the truly tricky things about a he said/she said case with DNA proving sexual contact. The only defense is to prove the other side a liar. And if you've proven yourself a liar, the case becomes that much more difficult.

MayBee

I'm not going to pretend I know what happened here, but this sentence was written by someone with an agenda:
According to the two officials, the woman had a phone conversation with an incarcerated man within a day of her encounter with Mr. Strauss-Kahn in which she discussed the possible benefits of pursuing the charges against him. The conversation was recorded.

Note the wording.
Not "the day after" or "the day before", which would be two entirely different circumstances.

I also think bringing up her asylum application is a subtle threat.
This case will be hard to try.

JackisBack!

The fix is in. DSK's own investigator's are pulling strings and spending money. That you can take to the bank especially Caisse de La Poste.

Janet

reposted from the other thread -

she also lied on her immigration forms and in her application for asylum.

Does the NYT care about this now? This maid should be famous for being the only person on planet earth that the NYT cares about having their immigration forms correct & in order!...or even HAVING immigration forms filled out!
Behold the chaos in a lawless immoral nation.

Clarice

This and the Duke case should serve as reminders of how easily the media can shape public opinion--even ours--by the way they frame these stories. Add a fact, subtract a fact, sensationalize something (here, how fast he left for the plane) and the reader forms his response to the news.

Janet--the immigration thing she lied about per the story was having been raped in her home country.

Jane (Slippery Dick Hussein Obama) sucks

The fix is in.

YUP

Jane (Slippery Dick Hussein Obama) sucks

she also lied on her immigration forms and in her application for asylum.

According to Dick Durbin, this qualifies her for president.

Janet

I totally agree, Clarice.
I just found it interesting that all of a sudden immigration forms filled out correctly & truthfully matter. She'd have been better off just sneaking into the country....you get to go to the Senate bldg. then.

Gore got all fixed up, too.

Had to be afterwards, MayBee. Wording is carelessly imprecise.
=============

The Eight Million.

How is it known that she lied about being raped in her own country?
=================

Captain Hate

I have a question: Is the MFM moving away from its policy of never identifying the purported victims of a sexual assault? Istm that was the policy that was never deviated from, even if the charges were disproved, while the purported perp was always identified unless a minor. Or has that not been the case in high exposure cases; because it seems as if there was a stir created in the William Kennedy Smith case when the defense team *somehow* was connected with leaking the woman's name.

Clarice

From the nyt story:


In addition, one of the officials said, she told investigators that her application for asylum included mention of a previous rape, but there was no such account in the application. She also told them that she had been subjected to genital mutilation, but her account to the investigators differed from what was contained in the asylum application.

Janet

Gore got all fixed up, too

Exactly. That masseuse was a "flake"....the only known "flake" that the left didn't embrace.

pagar

What day did the case start to fall apart?
What day was a lady with strong ties to Chicago voted in to replace him at IMF?
Did anyone see a Mission Accomplished banner?

Clarice

Ah, but Strauss resigned long before Legarde was sworn in. I believe that the two events are coincidental though, naturally, most Frenchmen will not see it that way.

Clarice

Jane, I disagree on the "fix". The prosecution knows that in this case the defendant has money and private investigators and it is important to know whatever they can find out about the complainant. So they tapped her line, heard the jail conversation, found out about the bank accounts and phone lines.They start asking her about that stuff and about everything else--i.e., her immigration papers and asylum request--and find out she's repeatedly lied to them, They have to come clean to the judge and minimize the department's black eye so they will tell him about this (I think today) in a filing and leaked this ahead of time to the NYT to salvage their reputation. If the first the world learned of the volte face was in the court pleadings, the damage to the department's reputatiton would be greater.

Whee, a slippery slide.  What fun!

Thanks, c. Now does anyone know if genital mutilation is a reason for giving political asylum?
===========

The mists of uncertainty thicken.

I'll bet I can find someone who believes genital mutilation is rape.
====================

Jane (Slippery Dick Hussein Obama) sucks

Clarice,

Undoubtedly you are right, but it still smells to me.

Clarice

OTOH From the NYPost:

appearances, meetings with doctors and lawyers, and to worship once a week.
Prosecutors are working with three possible scenarios that could each destroy their case against the rape case against Strauss-Kahn
-- They had consensual sex
-- Strauss-Kahn paid her for sex
-- The maid set him up in an extortion plot
A source in Paris has told The Post that reps for DSK traveled to the accuser’s rural Guinea hometown in western Africa to meet with her family and broker a settlement to make the case go away.


Read more: http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/manhattan/sources_assault_case_against_apart_9p7wWKT0k7qa8X2Qwt8lZI#ixzz1QrEnWJs7

___

Kim, in recent years the immigration judges have been sympathetic o claims of sexual abuse in asylum claims. So claiming mutilation and pointing to mistreatment of women generally in her home country might be a good tactic.

Where's the justice if she was raped?

c, that's the slippery slope of cultural asylum.
=============

DebinNC

Any explanation for her living in special HIV housing, since she claims she's not infected?

Bear1909

The system works. ROFLMAO

pagar

"Ah, but Strauss resigned long before Legarde was sworn in."
I have no idea what Strauss was paying for legal advice, but I believe his lawyers would have told him he needed to concentrate on the rape defense. The battle to hold on to his job would have required major effort and had to be abandoned.

If Christine Lagarde did not have the Chicago background, her election might not be as suspicious, IMO.

"Ms. Lagarde personifies the strategy of gambling for euro zone resurrection with other people’s money. Why would taxpayers in the United States and elsewhere want to support her?"

jjimmyk

I find the extortion plot unlikely, if as reported she had no idea he was in the room when she went in, since it was after checkout.
Lying on an asylum application is SOP among people trying to get in the country. I don't approve of it, but I don't think it means that much.

jjimmyk

I find the extortion plot unlikely, if as reported she had no idea he was in the room when she went in, since it was after checkout.
Lying on an asylum application is SOP among people trying to get in the country. I don't approve of it, but I don't think it means that much.

jimmyk

Sorry, posting from a Blackberry again.

Chubby

((I find the extortion plot unlikely, if as reported she had no idea he was in the room when she went in, since it was after checkout. ))

would it not be a simple matter to arrange to meet a mark after checkout time?

MayBee

Does the NYT care about this now? This maid should be famous for being the only person on planet earth that the NYT cares about having their immigration forms correct & in order!...or even HAVING immigration forms filled out!

Great point, janet.

And Jimmyk, I agree. The asylum applications have to be good enough to get asylum. I wonder if her rape nurse can verify if she had undergone genital mutilation. I note the reporter does not mention that.

Richard Aubrey

Kind of a toughy for the left.
The one-world socialist who doles out money by the boatload and tells countries to shape up has to be the good guy, considering he's more sophisticated and nuanced than us redneck cowboys.
But, since the maid is a third-world woman of color working in a menial job with dodgy paperwork, and since women never lie about rape--ask any feminist--lefties are going to have a hard time figuring this one out.
My guess is they'll come down on the side of the socialist moneybags.

Clarice

She ever claimed she'd been raped/ She said she'd been forced to have oral sex,MayBee, so I don't see why there'd be a genital exam.

Jane (Slippery Dick Hussein Obama) sucks

The left has no problem moving from a third-world woman of color working in a menial job with dodgy paperwork to a socialist moneybag. They just do what media matters tells them to.

Danube of Thought

I wonder if the NYPD will reconsider the perp walk after this.

Clarice

They should, DoT. Also they might consider the lip zip.

Ignatz

--My guess is they'll come down on the side of the socialist moneybags.--

But of course.
Third world women of color are perfectly fine if they know their place and keep it; taking Trixie the Pomeranian to have her nails clipped for instance or serving a bored husband or wife periodically who has Immigration on speed dial.
But it's enough to give a Vanden Heuvel the vapors when they get all uppity and actually, you know, speak. Why fiddle dee dee, didn't Scarlett O'Hara have to put up with exactly that same kind of nonsense?

MayBee

Thanks for that correction, clarice. I thought I'd remembered that she said he originally tried to anally rape her.

When a woman applies for asylum claiming genital mutilation, does anybody actually verify?

Clarice

Not to my knowledge. I know of one case where a woman and her daughter arrived here--I think form Somalia--and the mother claimed asylum saying her daughter would be mutilated if they were forced to return.

In effect, allowing asylum for cultural reasons means our borders are wide open to women from the world's shitholes.

narciso

Well we know the drill, re the Whitman case,
as long as they have the right mouthpiece, and a willing media.

jimmyk

Chubby, DSK never claimed to have had an arranged assignation.

I don't really fault the police or press in this case--there was no way it was going to be anything but a circus. I still suspect he attacked her, and I wouldn't be surprised if he picked on someone he doubted would be believed. Not that he knew any specifics, just his instincts about a poor hotel maid.

And, Clarice, I apologize again for the snark last night, it was not directed at you in the least.

Janet

When a woman applies for asylum claiming genital mutilation, does anybody actually verify?

I would bet not. Verner has had lots of posts about Somali refugees in Tenn. on FB...I always wonder who all is coming to our country under refugee status..& how many.

MayBee

It would be interesting if they don't check. INS can be very invasive in questioning people claiming to be married to get a green card/citizenship.

Clarice

Accepted, Jimmyk. I never thought it was directed at me.

Rick Ballard

The Great Seducer's original claim was that she was lying - there was no sexual contact. He left a bit too much DNA evidence scattered about for that to have been true, so now the claim is that she's a bigger liar than he is. That might be true, although, given the low life trash with whom he normally associates, I would lean towards the woman with the the drug dealer ties over the word of a man who has stolen and lied for a living since he cadged his first opportunity to do so. She might very well be low life lying scum but that doesn't mean that she's not a much better person than the perpetrator. It just means that he will probably be able to get back to wholesale rape with just one more stain on the stain of his existence.

MayBee

I co-sign Rick's 11:23

MayBee

If these transnational social justice do-gooders learn one thing, it's how to choose a victim that can't seek legal justice.

Clarice

MayBee and Rick may well be right, but it's unlikely we will ever know. I was proud he was charged for there isn't another country in the world I can think of where the word of a maid would be believed against that of a rich and powerful man. Still, when it's he said/she said the prosecution must take into consideration all the evidence, including the credibility of the charging party and is duty bound not to bring to trial a case where there is not stronger evidence than there apparently is here.

MayBee

Absolutely, clarice.

It irks me to see this compared to the Duke case, because they are nothing alike.
In the Duke case, all evidence pointed to her rape story being completely false. This is not that.

Chubby

((Chubby, DSK never claimed to have had an arranged assignation))

if perchance he had made advances toward her which had given her the idea to set him up, could she not easily have arranged the time? and why would he incriminate himself and admit it?

Clarice

No, you are right--it is not that,MayBee. The Duke story was ridiculous from the first, relying on prejudice and suspension of reason to stay alive as long as it did.

Melinda Romanoff

That was dangerously close do "suspension of belief", Clarice.

Words are scary things and could have consequences.

Melinda Romanoff

close 'TO'.

Sheesh.

Jane (Slippery Dick Hussein Obama) sucks

Saw this over at Hot Air:

49 House members demand probe of Kagan involvement in ObamaCare

Things will get very fun after we take the senate.

Captain Hate

NPR's Nina Slutenberger shows her feminist solidarity by coming down on DSK's side and trashing the victim. Wow, the IMF icon is lucky he didn't do anything really offensive like talk about porn.

Clarice

Well, Jane, that's apparently tit for tat--following the sliming of Thomas. I don't like all this, but I am for counterpunching

Elliott

Were the complainant's lawyer's statements to the press shown on the cable news stations?

Captain Hate

I have to admit I'm really torn on this case. On one hand, false accusations very much irk me, to the point that I'd be in favor of incarcerating the likes of Crystal Gayle Mangum for being a malignant idiot. On the other hand, I despise buying your way out of a jam. From all reports, DSK is human garbage; hell, belonging to the IMF gets you 90% there on its own. Don't the tenured feministas say that banging a maid is de facto rape since the differences in the stations in life make having true consent impossible? Of course being a slimebucket isn't a crime in and of itself; can you imagine the prison crowding if it was? But my spidey sense tells me DSK is guilty of something; but how is that gonna be proven now that the prosecutors have been bought off second thoughts on this case.

The whole thing really stinks.

Clarice

eliot, i don't know. I never watch tv but I don't think so. Today is the no bail hearing and the prosecution will reveal more of what it found if the case has not already be settled.

Clarice

ATF Gunwalked weapons turning up at crime scenes in AZ
http://www.abc15.com/dpp/news/local_news/investigations/weapons-linked-to-controversial-atf-strategy-found-in-valley-crimes

jimmyk

why would he incriminate himself and admit it?

Consensual sex with a hotel maid isn't a criminal act. As Rick points out, he originally claimed no contact, then the DNA forced him to change his story. Could be that he was just embarrassed about the extramarital sex, but it's suspicious, along with his hurried escape from the hotel.

And arrange a time after checkout time? Just before he planned to have lunch with his daughter? Doesn't pass the smell test.

bolitha

I agree Captain Hate. But, I want to ask--any of you--will the case go forward? It surely should.

Clarice

about that "hurried escape": He said originally that he was rushing to meet his daughter for a lunch date and he did meet her where and when he said he did. As for the Air France flight to Europe, it apparently was not a last minute thing. The ticket had been bought some time before.

Clarice

Bolitha, is it your position that the prosecution should go forward with such an unpersuasive case? I explained upthread why I don't think it will.

Elliott

he originally claimed no contact

I'm not sure that he ever claimed anything. I think there were early reports along those lines citing the ever nebulous "sources close to."

MayBee

I doubt there will be a trial. It sounds to me like they are threatening her asylum status. The NYPost says DSK's investigators having pictures of her- a muslim woman- drinking.

I am reminded of (doing this from memory, so I might get his name wrong) the Jaleel White case in LA. A high school football star was shot while he was walking through his neighborhood. He had no known gang ties himself, and he was shot by an illegal immigrant gang member who was a previous offender.
White's family wanted to pass a law forcing LA to repeal their policy of ignoring immigrant status when it came to crime. LA didn't want to, saying they needed illegal immigrants to feel free to come to the police. White's father claimed the prosecutor called him and threatened to go to the press with claims that his son had been active in gangs if he didn't stop pushing for the law. The prosecutor said it was a misunderstanding.

jimmyk

He said originally that he was rushing to meet his daughter for a lunch date

Yes, but that doesn't help the argument that he had a planned assignation with the maid at noon.

So we're left with the scenario that this maid walked into a room that was supposed to have been vacated, and on the spur of the moment took a sexual advance as an opportunity... for what it's not clear, since her first act was to report it, not to try for blackmail. I guess the theory would be that she anticipated that there would be offers of money not to testify.

Ignatz

--Could be that he was just embarrassed about the extramarital sex...--

ROFLMAO. Funniest line of the week, maybe month!

A Frog, socialist, IMF honcho embarrassed by extramarital sex. That jimmyk, he's got a million of em.


Chubby

jimmy, to earn money from the tabloids, book sales, and appearances on teevee?

Clarice

There certainly are many reports which will prove false. One of the latest is that she asked to work that particular (high rollers) floor. Of course, the French assume she was working on behalf of Sarkozy to smear him and ruin his election chances.

bolitha

Well, Clarice, you are an attorney, as is my husband, and you know more than I as to the case being unpersuasive. Speaking as a layman, I just think if you have accused someone of rape with DNA evidence (none in the Duke case, as I remember) that the case should be tried. Although, I have read that now the prosecutors say they would be unable to put the maid on the stand as she has lied about other things. What a mess!!

jimmyk

A Frog, socialist, IMF honcho embarrassed by extramarital sex. That jimmyk, he's got a million of em.

True Iggy, my tongue was firmly in cheek on that one.

Neither conspiracy theory stands up against the unexpectedness of the encounter. Of course, maybe we'll find out that wasn't true either somehow.

narciso

This story seems like it was cooked up in a law and order script conference, what's the motive, for her to denounce him, why the hundreds of thousands in cash. . .profit.

Captain Hate

There's certainly more physical evidence in this case than there was in the Duke case not to mention the Amiraults. Still I can understand not moving forward if it is reasonably considered to be a waste of the taxpayers money with a minimal chance of a conviction at best.

Clarice

Bolitha--the government didn't claim rape. The dna was on her clothing. There's nothing inconsistent with the physical evidence they found (as it now turns out) and his claim of consensual sex.
In Duke they claimed dna evidence but it proved to be fabricated as it didn't belong to any of the accused.

Janet

Yeah, heaven forbid we waste taxpayers money.

bolitha

What I meant was the Duke case DNA was not proven. And, I guess it's what one considers rape to be? Is forced oral sex rape? I guess everyone now--since Clinton--considers oral sex to not be sex or rape? All I know is it seems very unfair, and I think DSK will skate soon if he's not already on the plane.

Clarice

Bringing criminal charges against someone should not be done lightly.It exacts a terrible financial and emotional toll and at law should not be done unless the prosecution can establish the crime took place by a preponderance of admissible evidence. (The bar is a bit lower than that for conviction--beyond a reasonable doubt--but it is higher than that to stop and question someone or to arrest him.

As for "wasting money"--no prosecutor has enough resources to try all the cases in the office which is why so many plea bargains take place. Do you really want a lot of resources thrown into losing cases?

Clarice

Bolitha, what's unfair about not trying someone for a crime you cannot show was more likely to have occurred than not?
Are you suggesting that the difference in their status requires we go forward regardless of the fact that the case is terribly weak? How is that prejudice different than any other? For example, not charging when a case of rape is strong and the complainant is a poor immigrant and the charge against a wealthy, powerful man?

Or, are we to assume that women never lie and therefore all claims of rape or sexual abuse must automatically go to trial?

If we're there, count me out.

jimmyk

Not impossible, Chubby, just seems highly improbable. She certainly wasn't out there flogging this in public as far as I'm aware. The fact that she had some shady associations that after the fact were suggesting she could profit also doesn't indicate an advance plan.

bolitha

Clarice, you are right. I am just being emotional--I want DSK to be tried and convicted and probably realize that he will skate, and that is what makes me so angry. And, also his top notch investigators who are digging up dirt, etc. on the maid. It all seems so unfair. The maid probably does have a "lot of baggage", but that does not make her accusation a lie.

MayBee

bolitha- no it isn't fair.
It isn't that it wasn't a crime if he forced her to have oral sex.
It's that there were two people in the room, one who says it was consensual and one who says it was not.
The woman alleging the crime is believed by some in law enforcement to be a habitual liar. That does not mean she was not raped, or deserved to be raped. It does mean she is not someone whose word is enough to base a prosecution on. (perhaps. we shall see)

Clarice

The dirt digging by the prosecution is what's turned up the discrediting information we have,Bolitha.I expect the defense has turned up more and I think it fair to assume from the reports that the prosecution has not yet made public all that they found which has turned them off this case.

jimmyk

what's unfair about not trying someone for a crime you cannot show was more likely to have occurred than not?

I agree with that, but I'm not yet persuaded that she has zero credibility, or that there isn't other circumstantial incriminating evidence. I just hope the prosecution is more concerned about seeing justice done than about preserving their own reputations, as was suggested upthread, though I'm not too sanguine about that.

bolitha

This case is so NOT the Duke case which I followed avidly as my husband went to Duke. What I don't understand is this--why did the prosecutors proceed with the case w/out finding out the maid lied all the time? It seems rather stupid to me. AND, also, DSK certainly provided the "look" of a guilty person--racing out of the hotel, boarding the plane, etc.

MayBee

I'll say it again even though I know I'm boring. This story was put out to let her know her asylum status is at risk if she doesn't recant her story.

Sara (Pal2Pal)

The bar is a bit lower than that for conviction--beyond a reasonable doubt--but it is higher than that to stop and question someone or to arrest him.

Is it different in NY or DC? Out here in So. Calif., they arrest first, ask questions later. And very few people would take the word of a cop.

Before I would take the word of anything from the DSK side, I'd want to know if her family was threatened or she was told her family would suffer. Or any other psychological tactics used by the defendant's minions to put pressure on her, her family or whomever to smear her and/or her statements.

I wasn't aware that the INS rubber-stamped asylum claims. My only experience with them was with a coworker who was trying to help someone get asylum. They had to jump through hoops to try to prove their case to get a favorable ruling. Perhaps its different now.

Frau Argwohn

Now what will happen to the French women, two that I am aware of, who came forward to report DSK's violent predatory nature--"that everyone was aware of"? I watched the woman's attorney on a financial network this a.m. say that semen had been spewed over a wall and carpet that multiple investigators verified. That must be one fast-thinking maid to construct forced sex allegations . (Perhaps Bent Willie can testify about a definition of sex.) From the beginning it was strange that the French lecher had stayed beyond checkout time. Are those times just for us non-important, non-socialist semi-law abiding numbskulls?

It all reminds me of blaming the rape victim for wearing provocative clothing. In this case, it's her associations in an underclass population.
Sheesh, working a certain high roller floor meant *larger* tips left for the help. Ever been a waiter or waitress hoping for the big parties?

What's more likely, African maid checks hotel registry for easy mark, Sarkozy planned international destruction of opponent or acknowledged predator DSK using money and position to skate?

narciso

Well seeing as he seemed to be leaving the country, as we've seen with Polanski and
Einhorn, it was necessary to apprehend him,
when exactly they found out about her ties
to this prisoner, is an open question,

jimmyk

Bringing criminal charges against someone should not be done lightly.It exacts a terrible financial and emotional toll and at law should not be done unless the prosecution can establish the crime took place by a preponderance of admissible evidence.

Agreed 100%. But there is a flip side in which women (or others) who have less than pristine circumstances become free targets for predators. We shouldn't automatically dismiss claims of rape just because the plaintiff isn't pure as the driven snow. (Again, that's not what you're saying, but I'm concerned that's what's happening here.)

Chubby

jimmy, I hope she has someone like you working for her

Frau Argwohn

Let me add that I am suspicious of many rape accusations against men. It is DSK's predatory history that makes me question his innocence. Do we ignore his own "questionable associations"?

Quel dommage! DSK will return to France thinner and more powerful than ever.

Clarice

You think so, MayBee? The defense apparently had investigators go to her home country and talk to her family and others. Perhaps they turned up more discrediting info, info harmful to her asylum claim or maybe they paid her off thru her overseas family. Who knows?

What strikes me as interesting is that the initial leaked reports from the prosecution included a claim that she had been raped in her home country, a point that made her claim particularly poignant. Now it appears that she told prosecutors she had included that info on her asylum claim when she had not. I suppose investigators could find out if that were true or not. If it is not true that she had been raped before but told police she had , don't you suppose that would destroy the prosecution?

bolitha

Well, Clarice, if the maid said she had been raped in her home country, it would be another case of he said/she said wouldn't it? No way to prove. Would the US grant asylum with a claim of rape which was not proven? Moot point, as the prosecutors said she didn't put on her application. So, for what was she granted asylum? OT I wouldn't want to be on the opposing side with Clarice in court!!

narciso

From Ace;

Apparently anti discrimination law, passed five years ago, was found discriminatory by two Clinton appointees, Guy Cole and Martha
Daughtrey, apparently in that same circuit,
as Sutton and Martin

centralcal

Congratulations to Hit - his video "Change it Back" is featured on NRO's Corner!

centralcal

Link to Hit's video: Change It Back

narciso

Paging Kafka to the red courtesy phone:


The 2-1 decision struck down Proposal 2, the 2006 law that had forced the University of Michigan and other state schools to revise their admission policies. The judges ruled that the law violates the equal protection clause of the 14th Amendment.

The court in particular objected to the inclusion of the voter-approved ban in the Michigan Constitution in its 59-page ruling.

"Proposal 2 reorders the political process in Michigan to place special burdens on minority interests," judges R. Guy Cole Jr. and Martha Craig Daughtrey said.

From The Detroit News: http://detnews.com/article/20110701/SCHOOLS/107010416/Court-strikes-down-Michigan-ban-on-race-in-college-admissions#ixzz1Qsb5nUgW

Sara (Pal2Pal)

Would someone remind me what the maid's home country is, please?

Ignatz

--The judges ruled that the law violates the equal protection clause of the 14th Amendment.--

Yes, by mandating no preferential treatment for anyone the law was violating equal protection of the law.
And Oceana has always been at war with Eastasia.

Je crois q'on y parle Francais.

Guinea
====

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