Pretty Ambitious Kabuki

The Times covers Obama's latest exhortations on the budget deal:

11:21 a.m. | Updated President Obama on Monday morning challenged Republicans to live up to their rhetoric about wanting to deal with the nation’s long-term debt and deficit challenges by enacting spending cuts, revenue increases and changes to entitlement programs.

“Now is the time to deal with these issues,” Mr. Obama said at the start of a news conference at the White House. “If not now, when?”

When?  How about January 2013 when we have a new President and  Republican majority in the Senate.  

Mr. Obama said he is continuing to push lawmakers for “as large a deal as possible” and said that Republicans should work toward the goal that they have said they wanted for months.

“I’ve been hearing from my Republican friends for quite some time that it is a moral imperative to tackle our debt and our deficit,” Mr. Obama said. “What I’ve said to them is, ‘let’s go.’”

Obama has sat on the sidelines for months, demagoguing Republican proposals and letting Biden grind away with Congressional leaders. I would never claim to be smart enough to be a Democrat strategist, but does Obama really imagine he can run onto the field in the last five minutes and then get credit for some sort of leadership? Well, outside of the pages of the Times, of course.

Let's see Obama's proposal for a big deal.  If not now, when?

Comments

[Ranger]

I did find this encouraging in Jake Tapper's report on last night's talks:

Biden suggested the Speaker might move off of his dollar-to-dollar debt limit increase-to-spending cut framework. (The idea that however much they raise the debt ceiling, that’s how much they agree to reduce the deficit).‬

But Speaker Boehner quickly shot down that idea.‬

Sounds like a pretty basic formula to me.

[Clarice]

President jive ass in the altogether.

[Soylent Red]

Shut up and eat your peas, little people.

I don't know how much more of this dipshit I can endure before I lose my mind,

[PD]

Roll up those sleeves on your golf shirt and get to work, Mr. President.

[Porchlight]

but does Obama really imagine he can run onto the field in the last five minutes and then get credit for some sort of leadership?

Yes, He Does!

[Clarice]

And he seems to be copying Carter in his decision not to defend the US diplomats in Damascus from the same gang that took our guys hostage in Iran,http://legalinsurrection.com/2011/07/what-are-the-rules-of-engagement-at-the-u-s-embassy-in-damascus/

[Sue]

Eat our peas?

What the hell?

[MarkO]

You want class warfare? OK.

[Janet]

Eat our peas?

Can you imagine if W. had said that?

[Thomas Collins]

I can see the deal now: (i) tax increases to take effect immediately or within a year; (ii) a "spending cut" deal (no real spending cuts but reductions in planned increases) most of which will be in out-years and won't in any event bind future Congresses and POTUSes, and (iii) MSM articles on how Obama's leadership and prudence saved the day.

As to today's act of war by Syria against the US, I expect pusillanimity to be the response of our POTUS.

[Appalled]

Y'know, the slogan for this administration ought to be "Boldness Without Specifics". (Second would be "Vision Without Implementation") I mean, whenever things get tight, Obama declares his toughness, his willingness to get to the hard truths of governing. Then he levies some deadline, and implies every one is unwilling to wok on the tough issues of today, except him.

I mean, having a big global deal is nice, but, frankly, with an eleection next year that will cover some of this stuff, a smaller one is OK. I think Obama is afraid to reveal his vision on how to fund the big huge government he thinks we need, and I guess he's trying to slip away from the conversation with process brinkmanship, revival of memories of Gingrich's fine work from the 90s, and the usual fine sounding rhetoric.

Feh.

[PD]

eat your peas

Like he's the only adult in the room.

[PD]

Y'know, the slogan for this administration ought to be "Boldness Without Specifics". (Second would be "Vision Without Implementation")

Otherwise know as, "all talk."

[Soylent Red]

Boldness Without Specifics
Vision Without Implementation

I told you...

Presnitin' is easy. You just act Presidential and shit.

[Want vs Need]

"Obama has sat on the sidelines for months,"

Since last Fall I told you this debt ceiling thing was gonna explode heads. Now you want him to write the legislation for the explodees?

Markets continue, worldwide, to teeter and our own is no small influence on the global crisis. If the Republicans really want 'certainty' in the markets so that employers can relax and begin hiring, what's the problem?

[DebinNC]

In '08 Jeff Greenfield wrote a piece about how the cool Bugs Bunny (Obama) always beats the choleric Daffy Duck (McCain). Now, it's Obama's who looks like Yosemite Sam,facing, in the Boehner and McConnell, the two most even-keeled, non-threatening politicos around. I love it.

[MarkO]

Eat our peas? He's all wee wee'd up. A phrase that has to be the lowest statement ever made by a President of the USA.

[Charlie (Colorado)]

I would never claim to be smart enough to be a Democrat strategist, but does Obama really imagine he can run onto the field in the last five minutes and then get credit for some sort of leadership?

Apparently.

[DebinNC]

It's hard to understand how "eat our peas" and "time to pull the baid-aid off" (whatever that means) were the focus group winners. Imagine the losers...

[Chubby]

I am so cynical about politics that I think we never get the true story as the two sides act out their moves. I believe that both sides are saying a lot more to each other in private than we hear publically, and that they all already know what the endgame is. The purpose of the long drawn out performance is to justify their salaries and perqs. I also think that they all deserve acting trophies for the overly dramatic kabuki facial expressions they put on for the public.

games games games

[Appalled]

Want/Need:

All this dancing around by Obama and his party, and crying about the Republicans would make sense. If the Dems would issue a budget, or even adopt the Obaam January budget and own it.

They don't. They want to unlaoad the responsibility for proposing anything IN PUBLIC on the GOP, and then complain that the GOP's no new taxes means cuts to entitlements.

Challenge to the Democrats. What new taxes funds your entitlements? (Hint -- the deduction for corporate aircraft won't quite cover it.)

[Want vs Need]

Yglesias:

"Right now, though, the only crisis we face is an entirely self-created one. House Republicans wanted to create a hostage situation to force President Obama to propose steep spending cuts. But when Obama came to the table with a proposal for steep cuts, it turned out that Republicans don’t actually want to sign a bipartisan deal. Which is fine. Don’t sign a deal! The absence of a deal in no way forces a crisis. Just raise the debt ceiling, fight the 2012 elections, and pick up the long-term budget issue then."

Leadership emanates from Congress, or not.

games, games. games......

[DebinNC]

I think the real fear of being primaried (sp) by enraged Tea Party folks may keep the Republican game-playing to a minimum (ex. Orrin Hatch).

[Want vs Need]

Appalled;

The Leader is a Republican. They have the majority.
They wanted the job, now they have it. Legislation is
the sausage they make, so make it.

[Chubby]

I hope you are right Deb

[Want vs Need]

If governance is the measure of success and the republicans see an opportunity in 2012, this would
provide some evidence they can do better than the current occupant.

[glasater]

I would like to see where prez jiveass has led in once instance on raising the debt ceiling.

This guy wanted to see the "google executive" tweeting in Egypt during the so-called revolution become president of that country.

What kind of thinking is that? And where is that "google executive" today?

[RichatUF]

Chubby-

I was in that camp, but now I'm not so sure. Obama caved on the Bush tax "cuts" so I think the GOP House extended the lease on their spine. Not sure though and can't really figure out the politics of it-spooking the markets with "default" does no one any good.

[Appalled]

Want:

The Leader is a Republican. They have the majority. They wanted the job, now they have it. Legislation is the sausage they make, so make it.

They did. It's called the Ryan budget. The Dems voted against it in the Senate, and the President's strong words suggest that he would have vetoed it.

Which, in an ordinary world, would have meant the Dems would have announced their alternative, with their proposed revenue increases, and the people would have been given a choice -- the cost of the government you want, vs. the limited government you want to pay for.

What I wish the elite media would get is that GOP leadership is smarter than previous versions, and more honest, and the GOP base itself is more focused on what the government should be doing, rather than what their fellow citizens should be doing.

[MarkO]

Twitter:

@iowahawkblog David Burge

President Budget Hawk demands $2 trillion in spending cuts starting at Fiscal Star Date 82947 (spread out over 12,000 earth years)

[Soylent Red]

Imagine the losers...

"It's like a sh*t sandwich, you little people. You're goin' to have to eat a little sh*t if you want any bread."

"Even Sasha and Malia know that sometimes you have to give the lying crapweasel his way, if only to shut him up for five minutes."

"Let me be clear...You're just going to have to give me more of your money. Did I mention I control the IRS?"

"There are some who would let the country burn to the ground under a storm of fiery hail and locusts if we don't increase taxes. Well I don't believe that. Now give me your money."

"Listen folks...Andy Stern has a boat payment to make. It's not like you'll be around when your grandkids have to pay it off anyway, once Obamacare gets rolling. So pony up."

"Cash, ass, or grass. Everybody has to pay to ride."

[RichatUF]

glasater-

Probably back in Dubai because, as was predictible, the army has been shooting and jailing, as they see fit, the "twitter revolutionaries". Somebody should have retweeted that a laptop is mightier than the gun but it ain't a bulletproof vest.

[Want vs Need]

Appalled;

The "Peoples Budget" presented by Dems in April would, theoretically tame the deficit in 10 years vs Ryan's 25 years.

Reduces unemployment—and thus the deficit—through extensive investment in infrastructure, clean energy, transportation and education;
Ends almost all the Bush tax cuts, creates new tax brackets for millionaires and new fees on Wall Street;
Full American military withdrawal from Iraq and Afghanistan, along with other reductions in military spending;
Ends subsidies for non-renewable energy;
Lowers health care costs through a public option and negotiating Rx payments with pharmaceutical companies;
Raises the taxable maximum on Social Security.

[Want vs Need]

Of course it was defeated overwhelmingly because it was so radical.

I think the House breathed a sigh of relief when Ryan failed in the Senate, not because it was radical or anything. They just thought better of it, afterward.

[Jane]

Apparently our president has decided that kids can no longer go to college unless the republicans let him have his way.

So does the government now pay for college or just dictate who gets admitted?

[Jeff]

when the GOP pushes thru a smaller package thru the House and then the Senate there will be no way Obama can't sign it ... None ...

By the time it gets to his desk the media will have had days of saying a deal is done and no way he vetoes it ...

[Appalled]

The People's Budget is a lot like the Republican Study Committee’s budget that mischievious Dems nearly got passed in the House a number of months ago. It's something that allows those who vote on it to look good to the activists back home, but it is not intended to pass.

[Want vs Need]

If Ryan had passed the Senate, Obama would have vetoed and saved the Republican's bacon again. Then they would have returned the favor by biting him on the ass, again.

[Jeff]

Want vs Need ...

Government spending can never increase real employment ... it will always be a drag on the economy ... the trick has always been to keep it to a minimum ...

[Rob Crawford]

So does the government now pay for college or just dictate who gets admitted?

Guess who has control of all education loans?

[Want vs Need]

The Progressive Caucus was serious and your assertion they were not is without substantiation. But that's moving the goal a little. Your point was what responses have been offered by the Dems.

Now, about who should be leading...............

[Jeff]

Want/Need ...

actually the Dems control 2/3 rds of the executive ... they need to lead ...

[daddy]

FWIW,

Lou Dobbs on FOX just said that what is coming out of the mouth of our President about the budget is "delusional". Lou recognizes that Obama is woefully ignorant on all matters economic and Lou is not only not afraid to say so, Lou is eager to tell us how stupid this President is.

Yay Lou!

[glasater]

Rich-

Last I read on a google search of the exec, he was roaming Silicon valley. but that was back in March or April.
Nothing since so your guess is as good as anything.
Luv the "laptop is mightier than the gun but it ain't a bulletproof vest".

[Jeff]

Want/Need ...

You really want to push that idea that the GOP budget would have destroyed the GOP if it had been enacted ? Really ???

talk about disconnected from reality ...

It would have destroyed the Democrat party and you know it ... why ? Becasue it would have worked and that is the last thing you on the left want are ideas that work ...

[Jeff]

Want/Need ...

Nothing has been offered for a vote by the Left ... nothing ...

they have held press conferences to be sure but again nothing on paper for a vote ...

[Clarice]

I vote with Iowahawk. Of course, it's a matter of my deep abiding love for him..esp. after Jane anagged Steyn with her wiles.

[Jane]

Guess who has control of all education loans?

Time to stop that.

Boehner speaking.

[Ranger]

The Progressive Caucus was serious and your assertion they were not is without substantiation.

Really?

Then why did they wait until 6 months after the Dems lost control of the house to offer it?

Why didn't they offer it in the spring of 2010, rather than leaving the government to run under a continuing resolution?

Why didn't they offer it during fall of 2010, after Obamacare was off the table, and make it the center of their 2010 election campaign?

Pelosi is one of the key leaders of the progressives in the House, and could have pushed this budget through as speaker if she really wanted to. The fact that she didn't strongly implies that she wasn't very serious about seeing it enacted when she was in a position to make it happen.

[Want vs Need]

Jeff;

The Ryan Budget exploded heads over the issue of SS.
Ryan's allies started to run from him. Now as to the
extent of demogougeing that occurred, that was over the top.

Buit they did run from it. the polling was horrendous.

[daddy]

Can't get this to post so I'll try for a 3rd time:

OT,

The relatives are here. On Day 1 I showed them 6 moose (1 about 10 feet away) and have worked those flatlander's pretty hard. So yesterday I sent them halliboating to Seward where they went hallibutting and the fish were hallibiting:) They caught a few hundred pounds of these and Silver's and a couple King Salmon and Rock Fish etc, and were all excited as they saw about 20 humpbacks breaching during their fishing trip.

With them gone, I took the opportunity to run the dogs on an 8 hour hike up to McHugh Peak. Was 60 degrees at sea level, but about 45 up top---beautiful climbing weather, but the top was smothered in clouds. I am amazingly lucky in that McHugh is just out my back door. All I have to do is just step out of the garage and start walking up, (hollering KayyyyRoooooo) and in about 2 and a half hours I'm there. Here's a shot of the trail on the way up.

When we were finally up on top the clouds broke on the in the next valley over, and we'd get intermittent beautiful views of spectacular green wilderness. Here's the view from the ridge-line looking southwest toward the Turnagain, and here's the view looking northeast towards the Suicide Peaks.

Most cool was that as the dogs and I walked along the ridge line towards the suicides, we were lucky to look down upon a family of 4 Mountain Goats about 250 yards below us, just lazing on the steep hillside. Very cool, but my knees are hurting and its an Advil eating day. Good morning!

[Rob Crawford]

Why is everyone arguing with another of the Loony Ward's sock puppets?

[Appalled]

Want/Need:

Looks like we're at that point where the only way to resolve the question is by reading of the Hearts of our elected representatives. Problem is, those hearts are often quite small, or they are bleeding all over the place, which obscures whatever text is written on them. So, I guess we won't know if the Progessive Caucus was serious in its budget, or whether the Ryan Budget group is blessing their good fortune that they are such a futile lot.

I think, at this point, we are just prisoners of our assumptions, which may not even get proved right or wrong as the debt limit fuss continues.

[Jim Rhoads a/k/a vnjagvet]

What's with the questioners' mike problem?

[Want vs Need]

Ranger;

What you pose is questions, not substantiation. Appalled asked what response the dems gave. I gave it.

[Appalled]

Rob:

Would you prefer another medley of cut and paste? He seems to be trying to engage today, and its good manners to encourage good behavior.

[Want vs Need]

Some hearts are larger than others, but you have to remember the famous line;

"I'm a politician, and if I'm not kissing babies, I'm stealing their candy"

[Danube of Thought]

TCollins at 12:39 said everything I was going to say.

[Rob Crawford]

Guess who has control of all education loans?

Time to stop that.

Yeah, sure. We can't even get the GD incandescent bulb ban repealed.

Gateway Pundit has an interesting story -- the Illinois state government has severed all ties with the Catholic Church in re foster care and adoption. Apparently the Catholic charities wouldn't comply with the "Illinois Religious Freedom Protection and Civil Union Act".

I did a little digging, and found that about a third of the push for that law was the claim that religious groups were exempt, wouldn't have to compromise, etc.

It was, of course, all a lie. Either those parts were conveniently left out of the bill, or the state has decided that the religious freedom parts only apply where they find them convenient.

I was once a supporter of civil unions, but now I think they've just become a great big Trojan Horse. The free practice of religion is under assault in this country, and it ain't being threatened by the fundamentalists.

[Ignatz]

--Why is everyone arguing with another of the Loony Ward's sock puppets?--

Perhaps they're trying to positively reinforce civilized behavior.

[Melinda Romanoff]

Rob-

Something "accidentally omitted" from an agreed to bill? Here in Illinois?

Why that's never happened here before...

"Can I put a stop on that check? Oh, it's already cashed, never mind."

[glasater]

There was no problem with the Ryan plan and the R's weren't running away from it at all.
The R's were just horrified how the left demagogued/lied about it.
That the Ryan plan drug things out over twelve years is something lefties should have cheered--after all isn't that their modus?

[matt]

peas in our time?

I think the U.S. is like a punch drunk fighter lately, an awful lot of self administered. The hits just keep on coming.

The Times reports that 20% of all income in the country consists of transfer payments for unemployment, food stamps, SS, and disability. The writer goes on to inform us that the economy is going to take another hit because for many the unemployment benefits are running out.

In the meantime, the fruits of poor government are being reaped in Ireland, Portugal, Spain, and now Italy and still we're not paying attention.

And the president (and his predecessor) managed to spend $1.8 Trillion with really, nothing to show for it. We've saved Goldman and B of A, but have done little for manufacturing and much of the rest of the economy.

Virtually everything the president has done has been politically motivated. His whole jobs mantra is the green economy, and his auto czar admitted he did it for the unions.In the meantime he's done his best to sabotage the energy industry and the general economy. How sick is that?

I'm with Soylent. I say let's find a nice little country to buy. Maybe we could do a JV with the Israelis or some like minded people who like hard work and freedom. A new pilgrimage, if you will.

[Ignatz]

I am not aware of any politician who doesn't at least pay lip service to the need to cut spending somewhere, but there is a very large divide over raising taxes.
So why is the Dems' intransigence on raising taxes not as much to blame for any deadlock as the Repub' intransigence on not raising them?
And since raising taxes in an economy teetering on the precipice [that's a bad thing Barry] of another recession is counter to monetarism, supply side/classical economics and Keynesianism why is it the Dems aren't the ones being accused of intentionally wrecking the economy?

[sylvia]

I wish I could see more academic studies on this religious mystical idea the right has, that raising taxes on the rich is some panacea to create jobs. Where is the proof for that? I mean if it is so great to lower taxes on the rich, how about we lower them to zero? Then we will all be awash in riches and jobs, thanks to the trickle down effect. No?

Actually they tried that once here in some parts of the country. It is called slavery. Everyone had a job, the rich paid no taxes. Good times.

And also, each time in history has its own challenges. If it maybe worked once in the past, there is no guarantee it will work now. It is all a balance on whether there is a bubble or bust on investment and consumption, so each time period needs its own formula.

It shouldn't be THAT hard to computer model to see what effect raising or lowering taxes will be. Unfortunately, we have "think tanks" like the Cato Institute putting out propaganda masquerading as fact, instead of actually investigating the issue. And as a result, half the coountry is brainwashed into GOP jihad.

[Rob Crawford]

Perhaps they're trying to positively reinforce civilized behavior.

It's impossible for someone who has advocated the return of slavery to ever do anything remotely civilized.

[Charlie (Colorado)]

The "Peoples Budget" presented by Dems in April would, theoretically tame the deficit in 10 years vs Ryan's 25 years.

That would be the one the CBO refused to score, saying "we can't make budget projections on the basis of empty speeches", no?

[RichatUF]

Reduces unemployment—and thus the deficit—through extensive investment in infrastructure, clean energy, transportation and education;

This is fantasy. How is increasing the deficit going to decrease the deficit? Spain's experience with "clean energy" has brought higher energy prices, less energy, and 20% unemployment. Education in the US is way overfunded and far too centrally planned from DC.

Ends almost all the Bush tax cuts, creates new tax brackets for millionaires and new fees on Wall Street;

Obama caved on this issue when he had a chance to end them. Pelosi passed the extension, after the election, in part because higher taxes "of the rich" was a non-starter for the not-so-rich and helped her party to an election day defeat. More fees on Wall Street will show up as a reduction in credit availability and higher transaction costs (then prices) and doesn't get to the root of the problem.

Full American military withdrawal from Iraq and Afghanistan, along with other reductions in military spending;

Easy to state with conviction. Obama launched a boneheaded bombing campaign against a chastened Qadaffi while still engaged in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Ends subsidies for non-renewable energy;

I dislike this formulation. Low taxes aren't subsidies. Higher taxes and more regulation will make energy more expensive and drives production to more marginal areas of the world (which would undermine your point above).

Lowers health care costs through a public option and negotiating Rx payments with pharmaceutical companies;

When in the history of man has price controls and subsidies worked? They create higher prices, shortages, and corruption.

Raises the taxable maximum on Social Security.

Because raising taxes on the front end of a recession has been the path to fiscal health every time its been tried. Nor would it fix the problem, unless those unfortunate enough that have to pay the higher rate would not get a commesurate increase in Social Security benefits (and it would look a lot like a stealth wealth tax to be avoided).

[Ranger]

Ranger;

What you pose is questions, not substantiation. Appalled asked what response the dems gave. I gave it.

Posted by: Want vs Need | July 11, 2011 at 01:39 PM

Yes, but you claimed they were serious about enacting this budget. The questions I posed were intended to challenge the validity of that claim. Let me put those questions in broader context:

In January of 2009, the Democrats achived control of the White House. They had alredy been in control of both the House and the Senate in congress, but achieved even higher voting majorities.

The progressives in the House, led by Nancy Pelosi, the Speaker of the House, could have proposed "the people's budget" in 2009 or 2010, when they controled immense power in Washington DC. They chose not to. It probably would have been a big fight to pass it, but as a budget bill, it could not have been filibustered in the Senate, so the progressives would only have needed 50 votes from their 60 voting members in the Senate to pass it (in the case of a tie, the VP would have cast the tie breaking vote).

So, the question is, if they were serious about this budget, why did they not propose it when they could have enacted it?

Either, the progressives were not willing to pay the political price of pushing through the people's budget, or they didn't want it enacted.

Fast forward to 2010, and the context is updated by the fact that the Dems in the house deliberately refused to propose a budget for fear that it would negatively impact their election prospects in November of 2010. This implies that if they were serious about "the peoples' budget" they knew it was not a popular platform to run on politically.

Now, there may be progressives who deep down would like to see "the peoples' budget" enacted. But the fact that they never proposed this budget when they had the power to actually impliment it, and were unwilling to face the voters with this budget and their platform indicates it is nothing more than a pipe dream.

[Soylent Red]

Australia, matt. Australia.

Big enough for everyone. They speak English, sort of. Women are beautiful, men are handsome. Weather is good. Beer is good.

If we're going to turn the United States into another chronically failing social democracy like France, we've already given up on our Founders' vision. If that happens, we're no longer unique, and what's the point.

At least the Australian government is inefficient at collecting from the producers, and the outback is big enough to hide from them.

[BB Key]

Senator Richard Burr R-NC . The Senator's father Rev. David Burr, a retied Presbyterian minister, died yesterday in Winston-Salem NC

[Jane]

Holy cow Daddy, that is spectacular. You are a lucky man - plus you are really far away from Washington.

[Melinda Romanoff]

Chaco-

Pre-cisely the one.

[Clarice]

Next to Obama, my second favorite, first rate genius economist is Sylvia and SHE'S BACK!!

Hit, she's here. Drop in!!

[Rob Crawford]

Australia, matt. Australia.

Nope.

Gun control, "carbon tax", and Indonesia.

[Jim Miller]

It is worth mentioning that Republicans generally oppose increasing taxes on the poor, as well.

About the first thing the Obama-Pelosi-Reid team did in 2009 was pass an increase in taxes on tobacco products -- which are used, disproportionately, by poor people. Bush had vetoed a similar tax earlier.

(For the record: Of course, I would rather than no one smokes, but I recognize that smokers do little damage to anyone other than themselves, and that they are already paying for the additional medical costs from their habits.)

[BB Key]

retired ....above re Sen. Burr

[Jane]

I'd move to Australia tomorrow Soylent, but they won't let me because I am over 55. (Don't tell anyone). I have to marry and aussie to be allowed in.

It's gotta be an island somewhere.

[Cecil Turner]

Has anyone seen an actual proposal for an entitlement cut? I haven't, and I've seen several stories about how various Dems (esp Nancy Pelosi) wouldn't vote for any. I'd also note the reported tax increases ($2 Trillion by most reports) would vastly exceed just expiring the Bush tax cuts, and trying to get it all from millionaires doesn't look feasible to me.

This all appears to be fundamentally unserious (much like assuming a 5% growth rate, or that more "stimulus" will create a vast surge of private job growth). I'd further note our debt/GDP ratio is now above 90%, which suggests a significant drag in growth rate according to a fairly recent study, along with higher inflation. I don't see any possible solution that doesn't involve significant entitlement reform, and no chance of that until the current occupant of the White House (and much of the US Senate) loses his job.

[Appalled]

Want/Need:

Play nice, you have about 7 folks engaging you (and a supporter) coming out of the woodwork. And a better argument on context then ther data dump.

Toldja...

Dot & Rob:

If he's willing to engage, let him. TM has always had a pretty freewheeling blog over the years, and across the divide volleys zare part of it. You always have that stuff should the acting up start again....

[sylvia]

"we've already given up on our Founders' vision"

Yes, the vision that inculded slavery.

Also I saw an interesting program the other day talking about the povery that existed here in the turn of the century around 1900.

We see all those grand homes left over from that time and we picture all the people being rich back then. But what haven't lasted as long are the hovels that most people lived in. Where people died of disease and malnutrion and the sanitary conditions were awful. Orphans were beggin on the streets.

Ahhh yes, the good old days. If only we could go back to those times.

[matt]

sylvia;

some of my ancestors grew up in those hovels. They made the best of the opportunity offered to educate themselves and work hard and today my generation are way ahead of the game. It's called the American Dream, which has been fulfilled beyond imagination for the vast majority in this country.I would say that many JOM's have similar family trees. We're all immigrants, including the Indians.

As to slavery it was recognized by most to be an abomination and we fought a war in which 360,000 Union soldiers died to end slavery and keep the Union intact.What a silly comment.

[matt]

Soylent;

I agree, but Oz is a weird place. Very socialist in many ways, and unfortunately, like Jane, they might not take a number of us. They're a funny lot. Worse than Californians in their work ethic at times but they are generally a relaxed and hearty folk.

buutt....if enough of the more acceptable JOM types were to immigrate we could maybe take over South Australia and start the revolution from there.

[Sue]

Jane,

Australia already has everything you are running from. But I'd love to visit you there, if you ever make it.

[Sue]

I might add, the reason they won't let you in because you are over 55 is because medical care is 'FREE'. Just ask my favorite Aussie that I argue with elsewhere.

[rse]

soylent-

Oz is ground zero for a lot of bad ideas these days. I am not sure if they are aware or if it is just being used as a base camp for bad international schemes of subordination.

jane-

One of the dominant themes in education these days is not K-12 but P-16 or even P-20. College and graduate school and preschool are all areas of interest.

Prescribe and proscribe is probably the best way to describe it.

[daddy]

Wow,

First Lou Dobb's calls Obama "delusional'.

Now FOX plays a clip of Union Boss Richard Trumpka calling Obama "delusional".

Hows that for strange bedfellows.

[Sue]

Jane,

My friend loves it too. I was just pointing out that they already have the socialist thingy down to an art form.

[MarkO]

Tell Obama elections have consequences.

[pagar]

Every single thing the Democrats do today is designed to put every American into economic and religious slavery to the UN.

But it is not just the Democrats.

http://bungalowbillscw.blogspot.com/2011/07/tim-pawlenty-endorses-united-nations.html

There are few things more evil than the UN pushed IB school system, IMO

[daddy]

Listening to Rush playing Obama I hear Obama saying "there are Professional politicians's saying they don't want to raise the dept limit. They are being irresponsible."

Why the hell does no one then ask, "When you as a Senator voted to not raise the debt limit, were you being irresponsible?" And demand an answer.

We miss a great opportunity every time we do not take advantage of this creeps own words to remind the general populace that this guy is a lying creep. Destroy him with his own words.

[MarkO]

He's a liar. And, he's just not that smart.

Really. Did you hear any of that blather or read a summary. He knows absolutely nothing about economics. He simply wants a larger federal government and he would raise every possible tax to have it.

[RichatUF]

Appalled-

And a better argument on context...

I disagree with this point. Ranger has the better argument. If it were the right thing to do the Pelosi congress and Obama Adminsitration could have moved it forward at any time. Public pressure didn't stop them from moving forward with Obamacare. The "People's Budget" was never a serious proposal and it wasn't scored by the CBO. It was comfort food for progressives.

[Captain Hate]

We see all those grand homes left over from that time and we picture all the people being rich back then.

Who are the "we" you're referring to in that sentence? Are you and your deadbeat kin drunk this early in the day?

[daddy]

"Jane anagged Steyn..."

anagged?

I think them's fighting words.

[pagar]

"We miss a great opportunity" ever time we don't counter every single leftist publishing "propaganda masquerading as fact".
Which is every word published by 98% of our MSM.
I don't know how long before, but we've been bombarded with this leftist propaganda 24/7 since Walter Cronkite and John Kerry committed to winning it for the North Vietnamese Communist Party.
Nothing ever said by the leftists is true.

[MarkO]

"Jane anagged Steyn..."

It was like that butterfly thing they never really explained on TV.

[Dave (in MA)]

via Drudge: New SecDef sez we're in Iraq because of 9-11

(Yep, I just checked and Instapundit already has a "They told me..." entry.)

[Clarice]

"anagged" where I come from means "snagged"