Sunday Morning Open Thread

D-2 or whenever.

Comments

[JackisBack!]

Good Morning JOM,

Last night finished Spy just in time to start Full Black. Spy was a bit of a downer and uncomplicated but still riveting. Silva seems to have pinned the tail on the donkey with his characterization of Barry and Brennan. Well worth the read.

[pagar]

Clarice has another great article up, don't miss it.

http://www.americanthinker.com/2011/07/coin_of_the_realm.html

[centralcal]

Agree, Pagar - it is my second read, after Lucianne headlines, every Sunday morning.

O/T: Two people I don't read any more - Dan Riehl and Jennifer Rubin (for vastly different reasons). But, this morning I see a tweet from Riehl calling Rubin an "asshole." Typical Riehl, so I checked out her column and his blog.

Here is what he objects to (if calling someone an asshole is mere objection):

The president gets a deal through 2012; the House gets its cuts; and Sen. Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.) gets his commission. And the GOP extremists don’t get their balanced budget amendment passed and sent to the states or the satisfaction of blowing up the deal. As for the country, if it passes, the agreement will take us from the days of automatic debt-ceiling raises to the first, tentative steps toward fiscal sanity.

As I said, I no longer read either of them, but was curious about what our JOM commenters who are fans of either, think.

[Jane]

I don't read them either, nor do I read Lucienne. I should rethink that I guess.

[Captain Hate]

My preliminary reaction to this "deal" is very negative. I think the party of stoopid got rolled again.

[centralcal]

As I said, Jane I only read Lucianne's headlines, usually for the snark captions below them! lol.

[sbw]

When the next 95 theses are nailed to the cathedral door exposing the hypocrisy of the Church of the Leftist Presumptious Assumptions, I recommend this clause, in remembrance of our Narcisolated troll:

From RSE's pointer - "Last Exit to Utopia" by Revel:

"Privileged and invulnerable, these people, in exchange for very little work, are granted lifelong stipends by the society they aim to destroy."

[Extraneus]

Do I have it wrong, or is this just dishonest reporting?

Late Attempt at Debt-Limit Deal to Avert Default

In order to avert default, all we have to do is continue to pay interest on current debt during a gov't "shutdown." Other services would have to be cut, but we're really not in danger of defaulting on current debt, are we?

Seems like this whole thing is leading to a pre-planned 1995-like shutdown, this time with Obama striding mightily to the podium to heroically announce that he refuses to compromise the "full faith and credit of the United States," and has therefore instructed Gaithner to continue paying interest on the debt. Unfortunately, however, due to the reckless intransigence of the Tea Party extremists, the Washington Monument will be closed, annual White House Easter Egg Hunt planning staff laid off, aid to school health programs cut, etc. Whatever will allow the saddest sob stories the MSM can come up with. (Surely they're already working on this.)

If the R's don't pass a bill specifying the priority of payments during a shutdown, they'll leave it up to Obama to choose the most advantageous strategy, which would be a bad move.

[sbw]

I don't think the party got rolled again. I think it erred on the safe side of a trap. In the war, this was a skirmish designed to divide the army, draw forces in, and alienate the natives.

Success on this particular front will be measured not by reducing the spending but by capturing enough voters -- they are the 'natives' in this case -- to win the 2011 and 2012 elections.

The voters want economy achieved in a steady, measured fashion without bombing the village.

Follow Petraeus. Earn the trust of the villagers. If you build their awareness and ability to defend themselves, it helps win the war and establish a more permanent and prosperous peace.

[Captain Hate]

You might be right, sbw; mine was just an initial reaction. Any bill with the word "commission" in it makes me feel very negative and might outweigh the positives in it.

[Pops]

Obama Pelosi and Reid should pay a big price for playing the 'Republicans want to kill granny card'.

If I was Boehner, I would today insist that any debt ceiling increase include provision that going forward, debt payments, Social Security, National Defense and Medicare must be paid with funds received by the treasury and cannot be defaulted on if funds are avialable.

That other federal funding can be occur such as for other federal agencies but in order to to do so, the President must certify that the spending is necessary and critical to Federal government operations and cannot and is not being accompished by other agencies, departments or state and local governments.

[Captain Hate]

Gene Sperling is a sneaky little weasel who just was on FNS whining about the Jugeared Fellow inheriting the worst economy since the Depression.

[Captain Hate]

Jennifer Rubin has a massive inferiority complex regarding Palin and it colors everything she writes.

[PD]

Gene Sperling is a sneaky little weasel who just was on FNS whining about the Jugeared Fellow inheriting the worst economy since the Depression.

Even if that were true, one wonders how that justifies Obama (pbuh) taking said economy and making it much worse.

[Captain Hate]

PD, I was very disappointed that Bret Baier, whom I like, didn't hit him with something like the drop in job numbers that came about after the passage of Bammycare. The facts are out there to be employed to refute every lie out of these idiots' yaps, yet they don't mean much if they aren't used.

[PD]

Obama Pelosi and Reid should pay a big price for playing the 'Republicans want to kill granny card'.

Last week I asked my mom whether the retirees among whom she lives are buying Pres. 404's "can't guarantee the S.S. checks will go out" line. She said none of them believe him, even those who voted for him. This is a group that by and large reveres FDR, so perhaps there is hope for some clearsightedness about the current WH occupant among the elderly.

[Danube of Thought]

Minus 21 at Raz today.

[narciso]

Sperling is your typical 'drone from Sector 7g' which should have made it easy for Bret
to dispatch him, Toomey tried to do just that Ext, and they gave him the back of the hand.

[daddy]

Yay, New UFO sighting.

So who's turn will it be next, Nessie, Bigfoot, or the lost city of Atlantis?

[Captain Hate]

It should've been easy but Bret reminded me of O'Reilly letting El JEFe off the hook, "for the folks". Maybe Ailes takes the gelding shears to whomever hosts FNS.

[Ranger]

Barry should stop taking Bill Clinton's advice:

President Obama Job Approval

Gallup

Approve 40

Disapprove 52

Disapprove +12.0

Rasmussen Reports

Approve 44

Disapprove 56

Disapprove +12.0

The only question left is if this whole fiasco will finally push Barry under 40%.

[Captain Hate]

Oh and John Kyl supported Juan McAmnesty's trashing of the Tea Party; there's another establishment Repuke who deserves a primary challenge.

[Ignatz]

I may be alone in this but I'm not particularly sorry to see the debt limit extended beyond 2012, only because I'm not sure this is the best way for the Republicans to make the case for fiscal responsibility.
Passing actual budgets with actual cuts in them seems like a much better way to do it than these nebulous promises of future cuts and automatic sequestrations which never occur.
And Barry's insane spending will be front and center in the entire campaign itself so I'm not sad to see this fight postponed since it seems to be the easiest one for him to demagogue, even if, like most things, he sucks at that also.

[Jane]

Pops,

I love your idea. However can you take that power to decide away from the president constitutionally?

Capn' Sperling's rant didn't help Obama, particularly on Fox news. I actually think Brett left all that stuff hanging in the air which sometimes can be more deadly than saying it.

I think Kyl is retiring.

I can't even bring myself to watch Amanpour.

[daddy]

At the moment am watching the Final Round of the Woman's British Open. Tseng, the Taiwanese gal is leading by 2 strokes.

Two days ago in Taipei the bar gals were all very excited because the Leaderboard was 3 Korean's plus the Taiwanese Tseng, and a Japanese girl was coming on strong. What with the Chinese Girl winning this years French Open in tennis, and the Japanese Soccer gals winning the Soccer World Cup, it is interesting to see up close how excited the women I bump into in Asia are about these developments. Makes it very easy for me to playfully jabber with them which I really enjoy doing with my limited language skills. Mainly I deal with Bartender's, Waitresses, Ramp Agents, Customs folks and staff at Hotels and Health Clubs, but their pride in their burgeoning sports prowess is easily evident to me. Are any of you folks noticing that?

[Danube of Thought]

Remember when we waited, waited and waited for the Raz number to hit negative territory? The next great milestone will be when approval dips below 40. It's coming, boys and girls. It's coming.

[Mikey]

I agree. On further insight, I want this fight after 2012. I don't think a fight before 1212 will help the Republicans.

[Porchlight]

I don't like Rubin's use of "GOP extremists" much, centralcal. Without those "extremists" this deal would probably have been done weeks ago at no benefit whatsoever to the GOP, and possibly with new taxes in the mix as well.

I don't know why that is so hard for people to get. If we want the country to take "steps toward fiscal sanity"(her words), someone's got to be behind the GOP, cracking the whip, who wasn't there from 2002-2006 (or 2000-2008, depending on how you look at it). Those people are the Tea Partiers.

I like Boehner, but part of his spine stiffening as Speaker is due to pressure from the Tea Party, there's just no getting around that. When people say "hold their feet to the fire," they mean it - and it gets visible results. Palin had the temerity to underline that fact and Rubin doesn't like it, I guess.

[MarkO]

"It's coming, boys and girls. It's coming."

Don't know why, but this reminds me of time I went to stand in line to see Leo Carillo who was the sidekick, Pancho, to the Cisco Kid. He came by on his horse (yes, he, too, had one), waived at us and got out of there, pronto.

[Danube of Thought]

"Ohh, Ceesco!" "Ohh, Pancho!"

[Thomas Collins]

Re Clarice's column today: each phrase coined by Clarice is worth more than anything coined by Geithner, no matter what the face denomination of the Geithner coin.

[Porchlight]

"It's coming, boys and girls. It's coming."

Life begins at 40. I too await the arrival of 39. I wonder if the pollsters will be brave enough to tell us when it happens.

[peter]

I found this article in the Slimes today just astonishing in its Stalinistic cult of personality. LUN. Don't go if you can't stomach the NY Slimes

[Danube of Thought]

At this point I should point out, bursting with pride, that the Leo Carillo Ranch Park is a mere 40 miles north of here.

[MarkO]

Did they stuff his horse, "Loco"? Apparently, according to unreliable sources, he was 70 when the series began.

[sbw]

daddy: pride in their burgeoning sports prowess is easily evident to me. Are any of you folks noticing that?

No, daddy. I don't notice any pride in my burgeoning sports prowess.

[narciso]

This maybe Murdock fils, work, Captain, he spent lavishly on Obama and Cameron, and you see how well that worked out, sic

[Jane]

DOT,

I liked the Tito, a lot - but it didn't feel like there was any alcohol in it.

[daddy]

sbw,

You just need to get a little more Ear into it.

[jorod]

Great energy policy we have. We are sending about $1 trillion per year to OPEC. Why is no one talking about this. Talk about a drain on capital.

[caro]

In October of 2012,perhaps in a debate, President-to-be P can point out that JEF has not done anything to prevent the necessity of another debt ceiling raise in early 2013.

Or perhaps he won't even have enough credit to get that far.

[jimmyk]

Other services would have to be cut, but we're really not in danger of defaulting on current debt, are we?

The key thing that all voters need to understand is that any default would be a choice by this administration, not something forced on them. No different from my just not paying my credit card bills even though I have plenty of money in the bank. Consequently, any threat to default is a sheer blackmail.

[OldTimer]

I'm in the Mtn time zone, so just now being treated to the slimy, little reptile Sperling and his dire predictions of August doom if the 'extremist' faction of the GOP doesn't heel appropriately to the budget deal.

Sperling is a self-important, no-nothing smug little cretin. Perfect for the Zero administration and explanatory of why we're in such a financial mess.

[sbw]

Yeowch!

[Agent J. (formally known as "J"..]

daddy that is not the way to start a morning!

[Ben Franklin]

I'm sure you are all wondering what would have happened if 'Let them Fail' had succeeded in preventing TARP.

On a smaller scale, I think you will see that tomorrow.

Careful what you wish for....................

[SWarren]

I've been doubtful about this Super Committee. Do they actually dictate this to the congress or does the congress get to play their usual games.

Major Garrett @ National Journal:

Other component parts of the tentative deal include:
• $2.8 trillion in deficit reduction with $1 trillion locked in through discretionary spending caps over 10 years and the remainder determined by a so-called "Super Committee."

• The Super Committee must report precise deficit-reduction proposals by Thanksgiving.

• The Super Committee would have to propose $1.8 trillion in spending cuts to achieve that amount of deficit reduction over 10 years.

• If the Super Committee fails, Congress must send a balanced-budget amendment to the states for ratification. If that doesn't happen, across-the-board spending cuts would go into effect and could touch Medicare and defense spending.

• No net new tax revenue would be part of the special committee's deliberations.

[Appalled]

Porchlight:

I think you are right. Boehner does not get the deal he got without a graphic demonstration of the reluctance of the Tea Party to go along with it. But I have to tell you, the Boehner position of doing this all again in six months struck me as very bad policy.

Glad Boehner got cuts. Glad all this is going to the electorate in 2012. Hope the Republicans can help educate everyone on what "revenue increases" are necessary to pay for the the Democratic ideal osition of "entitlements forever" and hope they can make Obama pay for his efforts to keep everything hidden and ambiguous.

[Danube of Thought]

Don Surber lists a bunch of tax credits he would eliminate, which would generate $175 Billion in annual revenue. I endorse every one of them.

[Danube of Thought]

I should say I endorse the elimination of every one of them.

[Clarice]

I am in the Denver airport heading home to grand jury indentured servitude. I got an email from a friend of PUK's who wants to do a story for the BBC about how PUK endeared himself to us ..Because of my schedule I suggested he drop in her directly. And seek your help. I know I can count on you.

[Ben Franklin]

http://www.ibtimes.com/articles/189817/20110731/debt-ceiling-raise-debate-president-barack-obama-republicans-democrats-gop-congress-aug-2-default-tr.htm

Statistics not in favor of GOP:

Though U.S. government defaulting on its legal obligations is "an unprecedented event in American history," debt limit raises have happened as many as 78 times, starting 1960, says U.S. treasury department.

"Congress has acted 78 separate times to permanently raise, temporarily extend, or revise the definition of the debt limit - 49 times under Republican presidents and 29 times under Democratic presidents," says the U.S. treasury department.

Statistics on earlier debt limit raises, according to the chart displayed by Senator Jeanne Shaheen, shows that George W. Bush raised the debt ceiling seven times for a total increase of 90 percent, one among the highest percentage increase in debt, by any U.S. Presidents, so far. Yet another Republican Reagan raised the debt ceiling 18 times for a total increase of 199 percent, which is the highest ever percentage increase in U.S. history.

The chart also says President Obama has raised the debt ceiling three times for a total increase of 26 percent, one among the lowest percentage increases so far.

The Republican presidents have raised the debt ceiling by a total of 414 percent while the Democrats' total percentage increase is 152 percent.

If you go by the statistics, Republicans' clamor demanding a plan to rein in the federal debt instead of reaching a conclusion over raising the debt ceiling is a really bad gimmick to put Obama in an awkward situation and deny him a second term at the expense of the entire nation.

[Danube of Thought]

Appalled, I've seen some arithmetic that demonstrates that the revenue required to keep the Big Three Entitlements in place without change simply cannot be raised, and it isn't close.

[jimmyk]

If the Super Committee fails, Congress must send a balanced-budget amendment to the states for ratification. If that doesn't happen, across-the-board spending cuts would go into effect and could touch Medicare and defense spending.

This seems to be the weak point, assuming "that" refers to sending the BBA to the states, not actual ratification. The likely scenario is that the committee fails and the BBA gets sent to the states, so there are no spending cuts. And ratification takes years while we continue to get bled dry until at least 2013.

[Danube of Thought]

Bulletin: presidents do not raise the debt ceiling. Congress does, with the president's approval.

Bulletin: the average interval between debt-limit increases during the Reagan presidency was less than six months.

[Danube of Thought]

I don't think any piece of legislation enacted now can impose a binding requirement on the congress to pass a balanced budget amendment. The legislation under consideration could be enacted with a simple majority in the house and 60 votes in the senate. An amendment requires two-thirds majorities in each chamber.

Am I wrong?

[JM Hanes]

Clarice:

hit & run has been making himself scarce around here lately, but I'm absolutely positive that he must have a compendium of PUK links and threads in his cupboard. You might want to see about hooking him up with your friend. Someone over at IOW might have a similar collection. Didn't PUK supply some cartoons and/or graphics over there?

[jimmyk]

DoT, I read that not as a binding requirement, but as an out for Congress to avoid the automatic across-the-board spending cuts. but you're right, it would require a supermajority.

[Danube of Thought]

You're right, Jimmyk.

Prof. Jacobson says this is the end of Harry Reid as we know it. Not bad. Not bad at all.

[Ben Franklin]

"Bulletin: presidents do not raise the debt ceiling. Congress does, with the president's approval."

Wrong. Republicans do it 3 to 1.

[Charlie (Colorado)]

My preliminary reaction to this "deal" is very negative.

No kidding.

[Jack is Back!]

From Peter's Slimes article on Obama at 50 and what his face tells medicos:

" A graying baby boomer told this story about himself. He was standing in a crowded subway car in Manhattan when a pretty young woman, seated nearby, caught his eye and smiled. He smiled back, pleased to think that maybe he still had the right stuff after all. Then she offered him her seat."

Perhaps we need to smile more at him and make him think he still has it all the while we are planning to give him a new seat - on a bus out of town.

[sbw]

It would boggle the BBC mind to compare the concept of PUK's online community at JOM with Adam Smith’s commercial society.

The free market made it possible for us to choose our associations -- much like people can choose NBC, CBS, or the NYT. Contrast that with having an association forced on people by the government... you know, like the BBC.

[Tee! Hee!]

[Ranger]

Am I wrong?

Posted by: Danube of Thought | July 31, 2011 at 11:55 AM

I think you are correct. But, a law can be passed requiring a vote be taken on a constitutional amendment, thus getting around an effor to filibuster bringing the amendment to the floor for a vote.

[Danube of Thought]

Republicans do it 3 to 1

What Republicans? Congressmen, or presidents?

[Charlie (Colorado)]

Great energy policy we have. We are sending about $1 trillion per year to OPEC. Why is no one talking about this.

Possibly because every thread can't contain every topic of interest to anyone coming by?

[Ben Franklin]

Republican Presidents who LEAD>>>>>>

[Charlie (Colorado)]

I am in the Denver airport heading home to grand jury indentured servitude.

You're in *DENVER* and you didn't call?

[Ben Franklin]

Chaco;

Lots of carp about Breivik being a Mason. Are you following?

[Charlie (Colorado)]

Statistics not in favor of GOP:

Statistics not in favor of Obama's "kill Granny" -- we've already exceeded the debt limit once, in 2009, and the world did not end.

[Danube of Thought]

As Prof. Freund used to say, we can argue about it or we can look it up:

Article I Section 8 of the United States Constitution gives the Congress the sole power to borrow money on the credit of the United States. From the founding of the United States through 1917 Congress authorized each individual debt issuance separately. In order to provide more flexibility to finance the United States' involvement in World War I, Congress modified the method by which it authorizes debt in the Second Liberty Bond Act of 1917.[30] Under this act Congress established an aggregate limit, or "ceiling," on the total amount of bonds that could be issued.

The modern debt limit, in which an aggregate limit was applied to nearly all federal debt, was substantially established by Public Debt Acts[31][32] passed in 1939 and 1941. The Treasury has been authorized by Congress to issue such debt as was needed to fund government operations (as authorized by each federal budget) as long as the total debt (excepting some small special classes) does not exceed a stated ceiling. Since 1979, the House of Representatives by rule has automatically raised the debt ceiling when passing a budget, except when the House votes to waive or repeal this rule.

The most recent[34] increase in the U.S. debt ceiling to $14.294 trillion by H.J.Res. 45 was signed into law on February 12, 2010.

[glasater]

Western Conservative Summit Live Stream

[Ben Franklin]

"we've already exceeded the debt limit once, in 2009, and the world did not end."

I don't remember anyone invoking that event in response to the hysteria of this one. So you think this is Y2K?

[Charlie (Colorado)]

Lots of carp about Breivik being a Mason. Are you following?

Hadn't been, but it's what I would have expected. The European Ruling Class has never forgiven us for the American and French Revolutions.

But his actual positions, to the extent they make sense at all, are about as far from Freemasonry as they could possibly be; for example, his notions about Islam.

[Belarus Bytes]

BF,

Why do you insist on living in the past? What concerns me is what's going to happen now and in the future. What other Presidents and other Congress critters have done in the past has absolutely no relevance to what's happening today, no matter what sins you feel they may have committed. Please join the rest of us in the 21st Century.

While those who forget the past are doomed to repeat it, those who live in the past are blind to the future.

[Frau Argwohn]

The finale from the link upthread:

"What Obama failed to do:

Instead of addressing the debt talks as "reckless and irresponsible", Obama should have taken the onus and abide by whatever has been agreed upon by the Republicans so as to avert an immediate disaster to a country which is recovering from the consequences of the recent recession.

But he chose to be adamant on his stand for a long-term debt raise to avoid a politically trying vote before his November 2012 re-election bid. And the Republicans foresee a handsome opportunity in pushing Obama to do just that."

I'm sure Sen. Shaheen's charts were just super. I once thought Carter's and Perot's statistics on charts were sooooo impressive and convincing.

[Danube of Thought]

Refresh yourselves:

[Charlie (Colorado)]

I don't remember anyone invoking that event in response to the hysteria of this one.

Well, there was no political payoff in it then -- that was when the D's controlled both houses.

So you think this is Y2K?

Yes and no. Going on for an extended time without the increase would be bad: whatever their utility might be in the abstract, there are about a zillion people living on Federal wages. Putting them out of work would be a massive economic blow, and as I've remarked before, you don't jump from a 50th floor window because you've got to get to the first floor eventually. But the crisis clock is a manufactured crisis that it looks like everyone has found convenient.

[boris]

I'd say debt crossing over 100% of GDP warrants some serious consideration.

[Ben Franklin]

BB;

History as context.....One can ratchet down hysterical reactions with examples of inconsistency. Of course, a person has to be open to the possibility of erroneous conclusions based upon 'current' events.

Don't you see the value of context?

[Ben Franklin]

"But the crisis clock is a manufactured crisis that it looks like everyone has found convenient."

I have to admit, Plouffe and Obama continually talking about the interest rates consequences seems to fan the flames of market instability.

[Ben Franklin]

BB;

Do you think Obama is the worst President this Country has had?

[Charlie (Colorado)]

I'd say debt crossing over 100% of GDP warrants some serious consideration.

And your point would be? No one thinks it's a good thing -- except apparently Obama's Administration, since they either haven't mastered 3rd grade arithmetic or they knew it was coming -- but it's not some magic switch that causes the World To End. There are lots of counter-examples that demonstrate this.

[Belarus Bytes]

BF,

There is always value in context, but for me, the "information" you provide does not provide me with any new context. It does not tell me anything original or eye-opening. The news over here is always providing context but very rarely any real information.

[JM Hanes]

"Statistics not in favor of GOP"

So, is it Jeanne Shaheen or the Treasury plying the partisan talking points here:

"Congress has acted 78 separate times to permanently raise, temporarily extend, or revise the definition of the debt limit - 49 times under Republican presidents and 29 times under Democratic presidents," says the U.S. treasury department.

Let's look at the folks who were actually holding the purse strings between 1960 and 2010, shall we? Democrats controlled both houses of Congress for 32 of those years, while Republicans ruled the roost for 10, with 8 years split between them. In what may, however, be the most significant stat of all, only one Republican President since 1945 has ever presided over an undivided Republican Congress -- for a mere 4 years under G.W. Bush.

[glasater]

From Zerohedge:

Bush vs Obama: Facts And Observations

[Belarus Bytes]

BF,

I'm not a history buff enough to be able to compare Obama with President's not in my lifetime. I do feel he is the worst President in my lifetime.

[Ben Franklin]

BB;

Please give me an example of what 'new' context might be.

I think you mean you already had those facts in hand.....

[Charlie (Colorado)]

I have to admit, Plouffe and Obama continually talking about the interest rates consequences seems to fan the flames of market instability.

CNBC ran a story just a couple of days ago that "Washington" was angry with the markets for failing to panic. It's unclear who "Washington" is -- unidentified source -- but it at least kinda sounds like it's on the D side.

[MarkO]

Ben-Dana and the word "facts" in the same post?
Too much.

[narciso]

Well he looks good compared to Lukashenko, so there is that.

[boris]

I'd say debt crossing over 100% of GDP warrants some serious consideration.

And your point would be? No one thinks it's a good thing --

Just a comment on DoT's graph. But if I were to make one it would be: That is a relevant context for doing more than rubber stamping another increase.

Serious consideration might include (1) DON'T inflict more harm on the economy (2) get spending under control.

[Belarus Bytes]

BF,

The debt ceiling has been raised repeatedly over the years by both parties. The "new" context which has made this increase so contentious is the current and projected level of spending.

[Belarus Bytes]

Narciso,

So far, but please don't give him any ideas.:)

A joke that is popular is is how advance Belarus is compared to the U.S. In the U.S., you must dial 911 in order to summon the police while in Belarus one only needs to clap their hands and the police will immediately be there.

[Ben Franklin]

BB;

"The "new" context which has made this increase so contentious is the current and projected level of spending.

That is not the view of many JOMers. They have been lamenting the spending for some years (even Bush), just not as vociferously.

[Danube of Thought]

No one thinks it's a good thing --

But the Democrats have been behaving as though it weren't a bad thing either.

[JM Hanes]

Perhaps it's also worth noting that Republicans controlled both houses of Congress for 6 of those golden Clinton years Democrats are so fond of recalling

[Ben Franklin]

"you must dial 911 in order to summon the police while in Belarus one only needs to clap their hands and the police will immediately be there."

Well, a convergence between that element of both cultures should make it gallows humor..........

[Ben Franklin]

"but it at least kinda sounds like it's on the D side."

I can't imagine who else would want it...........

[Charlie (Colorado)]

Serious consideration might include (1) DON'T inflict more harm on the economy (2) get spending under control.

Uh, yeah? Are you trying to argue that raising the debt limit would be more harmful than the effects of putting 2-3 million people out of work suddenly?