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July 12, 2011

Comments

Rick Ballard

C'mon, Mr. President. Take a chance. Sure, it's Russian roulette with cartridges in three cylinders but you're a very lucky man.

Danube of Thought

I have to confess that on first reading I have no idea what to make of this.

Threadkiller

DoT, This tactic was last used by Kirk against Norman.

jimmyk

Me neither. Isn't the outcome going to be simply that Obama gets his debt limit increases with no spending cuts? How is that a good thing? He'll just say he's being "responsible," but leave the budget mess to the Republicans as he's been doing all along.

Threadkiller

Norman the robot

Rick Ballard

It's a very rational move at a point of impasse when there is a certainty that further bluster will not produce a compromise. The President gets everything his black heart and pea brain could ever hope for - except any new spending. The Republicans get control of the Senate, a larger House majority and the Presidency.

That sounds like a reasonable deal to me.

Danube of Thought

Cybercast News:

"I cannot guarantee that those checks go out on August 3rd if we haven't resolved this issue. Because there may simply not be the money in the coffers to do it," Obama told CBS News anchor Scott Pelley in an interview.

However, according to the Daily Treasury Statements published by the U.S. Treasury Department, the ongoing flow of federal tax revenue since the Treasury declared that it had hit the debt limit on May 16 has been more than sufficient to cover the combined costs of federal spending on interest payments, Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security, the Veterans Affairs department and federal workers wages and insurance benefits (including wages and insurance benefits for military personnel).

Specifically, according to the Daily Treasury Statements, as of the close of business on May 16, the federal government had taken in $1.333454 trillion in tax revenues since the beginning of fiscal 2011. By the close of business on July 7, tax revenues for fiscal 2011 had grown to $1.629630 trillion. Therefore, between May 16 and July 7 the federal government took in a total of $296.176 billion in new tax revenue.

In that same time period, total interest payments on the national debt equaled $14.632 billion.

Pops

Isn't this ridiculous.

If the President and the Democrats have allready agreed that the government doesn't need 1.7 Trillion in future spending ...THEN WHY DO WE NEED ANY DEAL?

Obama is now admitting that they are projecting spending far more money then they actually NEED.

Boehner should make it clear that we are talking about FUTURE, PROJECTED SPENDING, not actual money. And Obama has conceeded that him and the Democrats want a budget with close to 2 TRILLION of EXTRA unneeded money that they already agreed they don't need in the budget.

So what are we arguing about??

jimmyk

The Republicans get control of the Senate, a larger House majority and the Presidency.

I don't like the tradeoff: Trash the economy for the next year and a half on the assumption that it will lead to an election sweep, and then hope that the Republicans, once they have power, will actually do something positive, even though they didn't the last time. I like the odds that the current game of chicken will lead to spending cuts now.

Jack is Back!

According to Phil Klein it is a bad deal. DOA for Rubio, Lee and Paul then. LUN

Frau Mutterliebe

Stardate for Norman was 4513.3

What are the odds of my using the 1976 Star Trek Concordance *twice* in one day? Huh?

"I, Mudd" aired 11/3/67

Pops

"""the essence of free politics is you believe your ideas are correct and the other side's are incorrect so you do your best to obstruct theirs and advance yours"""

Sara PAL 2 PAL replies: "I'm not sure I believe this. When did obstruction/advancement get to be the norm? How 'bout we debate all ideas and come to a consensus on compromise, which has always been the "essence of free politics" in the USA.""

Had to comment after coming across this post.
The era of comprimise ended when the liberals decided they want to use the federal government to run our lives.

Sue you could always comprimise on things that were clearly Constitutional like how much to spend on National Defense, but how do you comprimise with someone who wants to control ALL your life? Let them control SOME of your life?

It would be like saying one person wants rape to be legal while another believes it should always be illegal. So let's comprimise and make it legal just every other month?
NO, you don't comprimise with something that takes away your freedom.

You don't comprimise with the rapist, you defeat them.

Rick Ballard

jimmyk

I don't believe that even this President is dumb enough to buy the deal. I also don't believe that there is anything that will save a Dem Senate majority or the Presidency of Hussein (just call me dick) Obama. McConnell knows what he's doing and I believe that these counters will have the desired effect of driving the electorate into rampant apathy until the President cedes.

Danube of Thought

I think McConnell has concluded that entitlement and tax reform are not going to happen during this guy's term, and that's not an unreasonable conclusion. He did nothing when he has supermajorities for two years, and he has the power to stop the congress from doing anything.

SunnyDay

Why doesn't someone ask O about all that cash in the SS lock box. He must have forgotten about it.

narciso

Phil Klein is usually wrong, but he's right this time.

Tom Maguire
I also don't believe that there is anything that will save a Dem Senate majority or the Presidency of Hussein (just call me dick) Obama.

Ahh, but... this proposal may give Reid the notion that he can save his seat and majority by pushing the onus onto Barrack. And it may give Barack the notion that he can save his job and the economy by seizing the mantle of leadership. (OK, that is a new role for the Mediator-in-Chief, but maybe he'll try it.)

As to whether this trashes the economy - Congress still controls appropriations, and Obama is still President, so holding out for a deal that isn't going to happen may not be a good choice. Default is not an option.

Clarice

Hi, Sunny Day! And TM!! Wow--it's old home week.

Sara (Pal2Pal)

You don't comprimise with the rapist, you defeat them.

The compromise is not always legal or always illegal, the compromise comes in with different degrees of rape, or murder, or petty theft vs grand theft, etc.

This idea some politicians push all the time of a one size fits all doesn't work and it sure doesn't fit human nature. It is just as bad as the dems always trying to portray things as a zero sum game.

Want vs Need

I wish I'd written this;

"The Mitch McConnell Pontius Pilate Pass the Buck Act of 2011"

Pops

"""don't like the tradeoff: Trash the economy for the next year and a half on the assumption that it will lead to an election sweep""

Obama trashed the economy when he got elected. The Republicans can't do anything to fix it while the Seante and the White house are controlled by OBama.

If anything the Republicans are improving the economy in the States where the jobs are happening in REpublican run states.

Want vs Need

Obama is not excused......

maryrose

Hey Sunnyday-Great to hear from you. I agree that we need to open up that lockbox that Gore always talked about and give the seniors the money they gave this government in their SS taxes. Boehner called Obama's statement a "veiled threat" I call him making this statement unprofessional and unpresidential. I can't imagine President Bush ever trying scare tactics on seniors and literally thowing a hissy fit because he didn't get the tax revenue he wanted. Brit Hume said the Obama statement about not having enough money for SS checks on August 3rd-patently untrue. Impeach Obama now-He is a disgrace to the nation.

Pops

""The compromise is not always legal or always illegal""

Well, yes, if you comprimise with someone who wants rape to be LEGAL, then rape is no longer ILLEGAL?

I don't want the feds deciding how much money I get in retirement, what kind of healthcare I'm allowed, what I can eat, what my kids can eat, what bulbs I use, what streets I can drive on, what mileage my care has to get, where my power comes from, etc. etc. etc.

Pops

If the President won't accept a deal, I would simply raise the debt ceiling this way:

The Secretary of the Treasury shall determine the payments for Social Security, Medicare, Defense to include personnel payments, and public safety. If next months payments to these items is MORE than the projected tax receipts, the Treasury Secretary can borrow the difference, with signatures required certifying the truth of the accounting required by the President, the Speaker of the House and the Majority and Minority leaders in the Senate.

Very simple, one page.

Sara (Pal2Pal)

I don't want the gov't telling me what to do all the time either, Pops, even if you did miss my point entirely.

macphisto

compromise with evil means evil gets 50%. ask Emil Hacha how well that worked.

SunnyDay

maryrose. ITA. Obama has crossed many lines, ignored the laws, and every day he astounds me more. No one can stop him because he either ignores them or lies.

Hi Clarice!! I get too tied up sometimes, and can't even tag along, but all is well. Busy is good. Once I start reading here, I stay here and don't get anything else done. :/

Boehner is doing good - I wish he could think a little fast on his feet, but I sympathize. I have always been the same way. I learned to keep my mouth shut. Too bad he can't send the Munster junior out to talk to reporters - or take lessons from Rummy.

Jack is Back!

Pops,

Well we are now there and what the hell can we do about it. Vote the bastards out and make sure the new ones get it. I think the Reps are dealing with this with what they have which is a half filled glass not a full one. If we can get a deal that keeps us solvent and promotes economic development beyone where we are - I think the voters know who accomplished tht. If Obama getsa second term based on his performance to date then we are doomed thanks to the generational corruption of our public education system and the media's unforgiveable surrender of their supposedly independent press freedom.

Rick Ballard

"If anything the Republicans are improving the economy in the States where the jobs are happening in Republican run states."

Paging Rick Perry. Rick Perry to the Oval Office, please.

maryrose

With his awful record I just don't see how Obummer gets re-elected. Everyone is worse off than they were 4 years ago. The media will try to drag him over the finish line but no one has that much juice.

glasater

McConnell's playing chess--Zero's playing checkers.

Rob Crawford

What you're missing, Sara, is that we've already compromised as far as we're willing.

Rob Crawford

I don't want the feds deciding how much money I get in retirement, what kind of healthcare I'm allowed, what I can eat, what my kids can eat, what bulbs I use, what streets I can drive on, what mileage my care has to get, where my power comes from, etc. etc. etc.

Whether you can defend yourself. Where you can defend yourself.

How much electricity you can use.

What you can grow in your yard.

What you can say. Where you can say it.

Who you can hire. Who you can fire. How you can compensate your employees.

(Unless, of course, you take advantage of the government subsidy to hire non-citizens, particularly illegals.)

Where you can go to school. Whether you can go to school.

LibertyAtStake

Way worse than "punt." Fumble and cower.

d(^_^)b
http://libertyatstake.blogspot.com/
"Because the Only Good Progressive is a Failed Progressive"

maryrose

glasater:
I agree that McConnell is about 9 moves ahead of dumbo obama and is taking the long view. McConnell sees the big picture where alas Obummer is mired in his re-election bid with his finger in the air figuring out which way the wind is blowing. Obama aspires to the high ground but rarely achieves it. He's just not that smart and he lies all the time.Now I sound like Marko

maryrose

I wouldn't say fumble and cower. That's what McConnell wants Obama to think. He is giving him a false sense of accomplishment before the ax falls.

Danube of Thought

I think Mc Connell is every bit as wiley as George Mitchell was. And it doesn't get much wilier than that.

DrJ

Everyone is worse off than they were 4 years ago.

Not to be churlish, but personally I'm very much better off now than I was four years ago.

Not that it has anything to do with Obama.

Clarice

I can't see that this Administration has really strategized its position except to insist on a tax increase;fight any significant cut and claim the Reps want to throw grannie to the wolves (again).

But I think Canter and Boehner and McConnell figured this out and are well prepared to wrestle this weakling to the ground.

glasater

Hey Maryrose-

Nothing wrong with sounding like Marko:-)

MarkO

As I suggested on the other thread, this crisis has been caused by Obama's mismanagement of the government. Now he is asking for help out of a mess he created. He chooses not to pay SS simply as a political maneuver. It is his crisis.

Recast this. Hold firm. Extend briefly.

Danube of Thought

Here's Jennifer Rubin's take. Can't link so I'll quote:

"If you go onto Twitter or check some Web sites (right and left) you will find loads of chatter about the McConnell debt disapproval plan. Most of it is wrong. Members of the chattering class are so anxious to chatter that they feel compelled to do so without understanding the subject matter at hand. Throw in some bad faith (certain right-wing bloggers would declare the GOP leadership traitors if they proposed only $4 trillion in cuts and got President Obama to decline to run for reelection), add in some liberal suspicion (warranted since this is not the first time that Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.) has eaten their lunch), and presto: You get some of the worst “reporting” in recent memory.

"The concept isn’t that hard to understand. 1. McConnell had enough of the phony White House talks. The White House offered a paltry $2 billion in actual, immediate cuts. 2. McConnell gave a speech to make clear that wasn’t enough and that the debt limit would be raised only with real cuts and without tax hikes. 3. McConnell could sit back and wait for default. 4. But he comes up with a mechanism to force Obama to put up cuts, send them to Congress and face “default” if the president’s cuts don't get through. 5. In the process he makes 34 Democratic senators vote over and over again on cuts. (The sound you hear in the background is the conga line at the Senate Republican Committee headquarters.)

"There are no tax increases in the plan. The onus is on the president to send a request for a debt-ceiling increase and the cuts to go along with it. If he doesn’t do it or if the Congress disapproves of what he sends up (and sustains a veto) the debt ceiling remains in place. But the Senate Democrats will have the power to sustain a veto (and thereby allow phony cuts to be used to raise the debt ceiling), right? Which 34 senators exactly are going to do this? Certainly not the ones in unsafe seats with voters clamoring for real spending cuts."

MarkO

maryrose, you've never sounded better.

maryrose

glasater:
I agree and am glad to share the common ground.This 2012 election is now even more important for the positive future of our country.It reminds me of that show "Deal or No Deal" I can't wait until Obama figures out he is a rank amateur at this game. He's still fuming about the lame duck tax entending deal he had to swallow to continue unemployment checks. hey- I have the solution-stop paying the people on unemployment for more than a year and give that money to the seniors.

Captain Hate

Per a thread @ AoS the House has failed to pass a bill that would allow the production of incandescent light bulbs because it needed a 2/3 vote to be passed. First of all, why does it need a 2/3 vote? Second, there were a number of Repukes voting against this and one genius voting "Present".

Also the House did pass a flood insurance act that encourages dipshits to build dwellings in flood areas which is one of the most irresponsible things I can imagine.

I really am starting to have no faith in the Duke & Duke allstars in the House.

MarkO

Thanks, DoT. That helps a bit. I never like to cede control of the action to the other side unless I am certain that any move will be harmful to them. This may be the case. I would hate to see Obama take this and look pretty.

Clarice

I think Jennifer is right, DoT

Captain Hate

I think Jennifer is right also. McConnell has been taking a lot of heat from the morons @ AoS and this is one time that I think they're very off base.

narciso

If Klein and Klein, (Ezra and Joe)are for it,
isn't that evidence of 'crossing the streams'

Captain Hate

More like crossing the golden showers, narc. I must admit that has me puzzled.

Threadkiller

Would you link that thread, CH?

Clarice

Grover Norquist likes it, Think Progress is whining---so reports LI.

MarkO

Billy Murray reference, narc.

Captain Hate

For you, TK, anything (I assume you meant this one): http://minx.cc/?post=318717

Jim Miller

Tom Maguire - Reid isn't up for re-election until 2016, though I agree that he should be very worried about his majority.

(As some of you may recall, Republican primary voter in Nevada managed to find a candidate he could defeat last year -- with a little help from Reid.)

narciso

Why do you think I put in quotes, is there something in the water, in Kaleefornia;

BTW - one of the Republican noes, Bilbray [CA], is apparently opposed to incandescent bulbs, but fully behind:

H.R. 1149 : "The Algae Fuel Parity Act"

The promise of algae as a clean, renewable fuel that could potentially replace a significant portion of our imported oil supply is too good an opportunity to pass up. That is why I introduced The Algae Fuel Parity Act today in Congress. This legislation will grant algae-based fuel access to a greater market share of the renewable fuels standard and clarifies that algae-based fuels qualify for relevant tax incentives.” – Rep. Brian Bilbray, Represents California’s 50th Congressional District


He who controls the algae controls the universe!

MarkO

I'm thinking he who controls punctuation controls the universe.

narciso

Yes, but that was almost by accident, Jim, Lowden, the frontrunner, started talking about 'bartering chickens for medical services' and her campaign imploded. Much like
that gubernatorial campaign in Colorado.

Elliott

'm not sure it's wise to Obama a 1/3 Congressional threshold for anything. But he did say he wanted the ball.

Janet

Impeach Obama now-He is a disgrace to the nation.

Wow, maryrose is on fire tonight!

Elliott

Jim Miller,

My guess is TM had the position of majority leader in mind.

Captain Hate

Duke & Duke must be so proud of Bilbray; it's like having a slightly more male Scozzafava in place. I wonder if Mortimer or Randolph won the bet on him.

centralcal

Well, well, well.

Haven't really read this thread yet, had to run errands after work, get dinner going, and make a cocktail.

However, I see we are graced with the presence of SunnyDay again. Wonderful!

Oh, and dear leader put in an appearance. Hhhmm, probably came to see if we were all still in war regalia, and if any loins were girded. Pheh - this group can take of itself, no thanks to you, but every once in awhile, the calvary riding to the rescue would be much appreciated!

Okay, now to read . . .

So far, I am in Rick Ballard's camp.

glasater

@JimPethokoukis on twitter says:

Last time, Obama offered a specific, scored budget? It added $9.47 trillion in debt over 10 yrs

Elliott

*to give Obama*

He's not a verb...yet.

glasater

I'm still on Obama's fund raising email list and recently got a message saying I didn't have to contribute--but if I got fifty people to sign on to the Obama campaign wagon I would win something.

The message did not state what I might win...

Janet

He's not a verb...yet.

LOL!

narciso

"The Spice must Flow", sorry that was what came to mind,

Clarice

I can't believe the light bulb repeal bill lost. What will it take? Pitchforks?

narciso

That was only slightly less deranged, than the Esquire piece, Elliot,

Danube of Thought

Jeez--I think I just heard Krauthammer offer my very own proposal: the GOP house should authorize a debt limit increase, with comparable specific spending cuts, good until the end of the year, and propose that the next five months be devoted to entitlement and tax reform. Way to go, Doc.

Sara (Pal2Pal)

George W Bush escorts Nancy Reagan at the Betty Ford Funeral today:

image

narciso

Have you expanded you operation, into 'explosive tipped flechettes' Clarice,

narciso

It is craven, but not entirely illogical 'from
a certain point of view'as the Jedi say:

algae.uscd.edu

Jack is Back!

CLASS ACT!

Who would Obama escort? Poll!

Frances Fox Pilven is my guess. I hope.

Carol Herman

The GOP elite, also known as ruling members of the stupid party ... are watching a man who can't lead ... The chinless wonder ... with effeminate hands ... launch a fart ... hoping it catches the wind.

You know the stupid party is in trouble, don't cha?

hit and run

Posted by: Tom Maguire | July 12, 2011 at 07:18 PM

What a coincidence. I once knew a guy named Tom Maguire. Great guy.

Jack is Back!

Talking about a fart in a bottle - welcome back Carol.

So, what would you do and how would you do it?

Extraneus

I think McConnell has concluded that entitlement and tax reform are not going to happen during this guy's term, and that's not an unreasonable conclusion.

I don't see how a solution could ever be found without a balanced budget amendment.

Danube of Thought

I know Mr. Carol Herman has some serious gender-identity problems.

jimmyk

I don't doubt McConnell intends well, and there's a method to the madness, I'm just very short-sighted. I'll take $20 in immediate spending cuts for every $100 that is in theory going to be cut in the future when this, that, and the other thing is "certain" to happen. Future cuts are unicorn farts as far as I'm concerned. The only future cuts that mean anything would be genuine entitlement reform, which ain't happening.

Porchlight

Nice photo, Sara.

Rick Ballard

Any bets on which goblet President Barack Vizzini will select? It doesn't really matter, as long as he drains it.

Clarice

Wasn't that a great movie shtick though?

Extraneus

Darrell Issa questions White House's 2012 actions

In what could be considered the committee’s sharpest probe to date of the White House, Issa sent a letter to Obama’s top lawyer Monday evening asking for a slew of documents relating to what the California Republican termed as “an array of potentially illegal fundraising behavior.”

Issa singled out a White House meeting in March between Obama, Democratic National Committee officials and members of the business community — who were all Obama donors. The meeting was organized by the DNC.

He’s also calling into question the Obama administration’s decision to provide access to administration officials – possibly including the White House chef – to large donors.

And Issa is taking issue with a campaign video that he says appears to have been shot in the White House, advertising a raffle to have dinner with Obama and Vice President Joseph R. Biden in return for contributions.

narciso

He will chose 'badly' like the Old Knight from 'Last Crusade', put it, that film as well as 'Spinal Tap,' turned out very apt indeed.

Porchlight
I'll take $20 in immediate spending cuts for every $100 that is in theory going to be cut in the future when this, that, and the other thing is "certain" to happen.

But what immediate spending cuts is Obama prepared to agree to? I mean *really* agree to. Seems like all he's said yes to are watery, shapeshifting future cuts.

Ranger

The more I think about this plan, the more it makes senes to me. If this goes through, Obama, the man who promised "net spending cuts" in 2008, becomes that man trying to justify 3 more increases in the debt limit in 2012. The campaign comercials practially write themselves.

Threadkiller

Thanks for the link, CH. DoT, are we going to pay Bilbray a visit?

Jack is Back!

Not hard to put a campaign oriented administration in a box on doing like an executive thing. This is not a race but a tenure of decision making. Astroturing and calling Soros will not solve any of his predictaments.

Janet

ACORN, PP, NPR, & countless enviro. groups are still getting tax dollars. Regular light bulbs are still gonna be illegal.
What exactly is the good news?
Congress can't even defund one lousy NPR station....

narciso

So, Donald Douglas, is reporting that Janice Hahn, is complaining about 'voter suppression' in her district, must not be going well.

Boatbuilder

For some reason McConnell's proposal reminds me of Michael Scott from "The Office:"

"Our balls are in your court."

I guess if Obama thinks he's negotiating with Michael Scott, that's a good thing. It's either brilliant or insanely stupid. I'm leaning toward brilliant, but this is Mitch McConnell. What am I missing?

Janet

Henry posted this link on the other thread.

Uncle BigBad

Henry needs to come back and explain that link. I can't tell which ones are faux democrats.

Clarice

There's an asterisk alongside the name of the GOP protest candidates. One of them looks like he has a chance.

JM Hanes

That didn't exactly go well, did it, Janet?

DrJ

The ones with the asterisks are the "fake" dems. At least if the link is the same on as he posted on the other thread.

JM Hanes

Hope lives! I didn't realize those were partial returns.

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