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August 10, 2011





Just super!


Strange special recall election in what is right now a politically strange state (Supreme Court Justices tussling in chambers?-- Jeez). Only one lesson here for national Repubs-- be conservative all the time on fiscal matters and taxes, and don't make pretenses like you're an old fashioned 1950s country club Repub, and you'll win. Public unions in Wisc. are like Medicare and Soc Sec nationally -- "conventional wisdom" says you can't touch them, and anyone who tries is an enemy of the people. Scott Walker and the Repubs pooped all over the public unions and have lived to tell the tale; as an added benee, neighboring Illinois is a tax pit that will lose tons of business to places like -- well -- Wisc and Mitche daniels Indiana. National Repubs need to learn this lesson, be conservative on fiscal matters all the time, and win.

Belarus Bytes

I pray that this is just another indicator that America is starting to sober up. Hopefully the realization that America's hangover is because we drank too much and not because we stopped drinking is starting to penetrate.


Ah the pic that accompanies this piece, full of schadenfreude:

Republicans held onto control of the Wisconsin Senate on Tuesday, defeating four Democratic challengers in a recall election despite an intense political backlash against GOP support for Gov. Scott Walker's effort to curb public employees' union rights.

Fueled by millions of dollars from national labor groups, the attempt to remove GOP incumbents served as both a referendum on Walker's conservative revolution and could provide a new gauge of the public mood less than a year after Republicans made sweeping gains in this state and many others.

Read more:


Wonderful news, Wisconsin!


I trust the WaPo has been asked, reasked, and re-reasked to make a correction and the WaPo will deem -- deem, mind you -- that they were correct and the issue is simply a matter of interpretation even if the lost ballots were never lost.

The WaPo, like the the Gray lady, never dirties her skirt.

BB Key

On Wisconsin !


Well let that sense of paranoia, that last gripped them in Ahia, settle in for a bit,
(why do you spell it that way, Capt)

Meanwhile, this bit of 'wisdom' from the Hill:

Many of us feel the pain of the Tea Party. Why did Washington bail out the insanely greedy banking and other financial institutions, leaving the rest of America to pay the bill? The Tea Party has its heart in the right place – a restoration of fiscal responsibility, although there is no policy to achieve the goal beyond generalities. For her next reality show, Sarah Palin should pack up the Tea Party brain trust and spend a year or two in Somalia. There they can see the application of the no tax, minimal government, Federal Reserve-less and completely free enterprise economy, of their utopian dreams.

Rick Ballard

From Narciso's link:

"Wisconsin was a swing state before, and it will be after," Temple said. "Maybe (the recall) is a sign of strong intensity, and that's not meaningless, but it's not predictive."

I believe that Temple must have watched this for inspiration.


union groups and Democrats who had spent months and millions of dollars

How many of The Children could have been helped with all that money, if it hadn't been wasted by special interest groups lusting for power?


What if a Dem or two lose their recall elections next week? -- "My mind is a raging torrent, flooded with rivulets of thought cascading into a waterfall of creative alternatives. ...!!!!!"


bgates, bgates, bgates... spending union and Democrat money is good for the little people. When they spend it on advertising in newspapers, especially in Rome, NY, this little people feels particularly good.

Danube of Thought

David Frddoso says of the two lost seats that one was in a heavily D district that went R last time because of a miraculous fluke. The other loser was an alleged adulterer who moved out of his district to live with his young mistress, and whose wife supported his recall. He also says one of the two D's on the block next week may go dowan.

JM Hanes


"What if a Dem or two lose their recall elections next week? "

I was wondering why there weren't any Republican challengers yesterday! Are there two separate recall elections? I realize the unions went all out, and still failed to win a majority, but they did narrow it down -- which means less Senators to turn when it comes to specific bills in the legislature. It would be nice to think that the GOP could recoup their losses. How many Republican challenges are there?

Other questions: Was Krapanke expected to lose? Do winners take their seats immediately, barring recounts? Do the same percentages apply to qualifying for recounts? Can a candidate demand a recount regardless of the margin, if they are willing to pay for it? If so, I should think the unions would fund recount challenges across the board.

Melinda Romanoff

GAB only allowed GOP seats to the recall list for yesterday. They couldn't review the Dem recall petitions under the deadline.

Poor babies.

Captain Hate

Ahia, settle in for a bit,
(why do you spell it that way, Capt)

That's the way they pronounce it in Ann's neck of the woods; at least the ones that have lived there a while, not the upwardly mobile suburbanite trash that flock there to suck off the teat of state gubbiment. The same type of accent that tells you to "Warsh your hands". Btw, I say that with mainly affection since Clevelanders are unfortunately almost completely bereft of an accent.


BBC has a flash headline up that the Taliban who shot down the CH47 have been killed.

Army of Davids

Another small battle victory in the political war to right this country.

Good for the folks in Wisconsin.


talk about missing the point, in Neuharth's fishwrap:

Now the Obama administration is expanding the regulation to require gun stores in the four states along the Mexican border — California, Arizona, New Mexico and Texas — to begin reporting multiple sales of certain military style rifles, including AK-47s and AR-15s. These assault weapons are prized by drug cartels in Mexico, where tens of thousands of firearms, illegal to buy in Mexico, have been smuggled from the U.S., fueling the horrific violence that has killed some 40,000 people in the past five years.

This is a perfectly sensible idea, but predictably, the National Rifle Association and its congressional allies are trying to kill the new rule, which goes into effect on Sunday. The NRA, which filed suit last week to block the rule, charges that it is another sinister move by administration officials to "pursue their gun control agenda."

Captain Hate

The other loser was an alleged adulterer who moved out of his district to live with his young mistress, and whose wife supported his recall.

Sanford North; good riddance. The Duke & Duke vetting process on display.


JMH, I'll give it a shot...

Krapanke was expected to lose, and said before the vote on collective bargaining that WI was more important than his senate seat.

Hopper was also expected to lose, Danube's post has the reasons.

Winners take their seats after the GAB certifies the elections, takes about a week.

Recount rules are based on percentage margin, none hit the automatic and only Hopper could get one paid by the state (I hope he doesn't ask).

At this point the National unions and Obama campaign probably want to shift effort to Ohio's November vote -- only so many paid thugs to go around.

Oh- the GAB failed to certify the challenges to the fleebaggers on time (too many lawsuits or something) so we ended up with two sets of primaries and two sets of recalls.

Jack is Back!

PD - Henry - Harrjf,

Fill us in. This is your story.

Captain Hate

The NRA, which filed suit last week to block the rule, charges that it is another sinister move by administration officials to "pursue their gun control agenda."

Meanwhile they're ignoring the story that confirms this point.


US says Taliban who shot down US helicopter dead

General John Allen, US forces commander in Afghanistan, told a Pentagon news conference those responsible had been killed in an air strike.


So, this is the third person, who they've attributed this attack to,

The Taliban insurgents responsible for shooting down a U.S. helicopter in Afghanistan -- killing 30 Americans -- have been killed in an airstrike, U.S. Gen. John Allen said Wednesday.

"The strike killed Taliban leader Mullah Mohibullah and the insurgent who fired the shot associated with the Aug. 6 downing of the CH-47 helicopter, which resulted in the deaths of 38 Afghan and coalition service members," NATO said in a statement, Reuters reports.


The Wisc. State Journal should quote YOU instead of Mordecai the mall teacher. Your credentials could be the refreshing "informed citizen".


I think this is the most significant part of the story in WI:

In the end, even a massive infusion of cash and union volunteers was not enough to deliver the three state Senate recall races the unions needed, despite the fact that President Obama carried all six of the seats in question in 2008.

Captain Hate

Well Richard Trumka's rank and vile spent $25 meeyun and knocked on 200,000 doors and this is all they got? That's a lot of jack for a big fat nothingburger. There's a lesson in that for people that are smart enough to keep an open mind.


There is no better example than last night that Obama is in serious trouble.

Dont get hung up on polls that say "people are souring on the Tea Party" or "people dont like the Republicans".

Obama and the Democrats are in serious trouble. When 47% of the people vote against at your zenith then at least 47% of the country is already gone in 2012.

Obama can lose big or lose close but he can only win close and no amount of money or favorable media spin can change that.


Obama and the Democrats are in serious trouble.

Dem. hope is dropping like a giant, dropping thing. h/t Dave!


Don't worry they have a 'cunning, cunning, plan' to deal with it.


Well, it looks like another rocky day on Wall Street already.


Key fact for next Tuesday-- Both challengers are Tea Party organizers (not Duke & Duke). The Republican party is now all in to help them, but the recall petition drives and candidates were / are pure Tea Party.

Ben Franklin

"n a foretaste of what Election 2012 will look like, the recalls have shattered spending records on both sides. Mike McCabe from the Wisconsin Democracy Campaign estimated $31 million had been spent already—nearly 10 times the $3.75 million spent on all the state races in 2010. But more importantly, they've seen a flood of so-called "dark money" from groups that don't have to disclose their donors thanks to the Citizens United ruling."

If this is a measure of what to expect in 2012, then it's gonna be
$10 Billion...It was $1 Bil in 2008 which was twice what the 2004 election cost/

Ben Franklin

"For a little more perspective, consider this: only 13 state legislators have been recalled in American history, and only three times in history have as many as two legislators been subject to recall at the same time in the same state. This Tuesday, six of the eight Wisconsin Republican legislators eligible to be recalled in 2011 faced recalls. It isn't easy to do this or people would do it all the time.

Still, losing just two Senators instead of three means the GOP keeps their majority, so they managed to hang on by their fingernails. You've got to give them credit for survival.

But Scott Walker had better watch out. The progressives in Wisconsin are now battle hardened activists with on-the-ground experience. I wouldn't get too cocky if I were him. His polls are dismal. When he's eligible for recall next year there is every likelihood they'll go for it. Feingold's waiting in the wings."

JM Hanes

One of the most encouraging developments in Wisconsin, IMO, had already occurred before the elections were held. I can't remember which county it was, but when the unions lost control of the bargaining process, not only did the school district end up saving a big chunk of money by rejecting the union mandated benefits provider, they discovered that their teachers and administrators were actually able to work together on the decision making rather well.

Will reigning in union power have any discernible effect on the "nonunion" influence of the Association of American Educators on national school curricula? Having vastly beefed up the Secretary of Education's powers and funding in the Stimulus, it appears that Congress is ceding control of education to the Executive Branch, just as it ceded Healthcare to the Secretary of HHS. Arne Duncan is now following Kathleen Sebelius through the wormhole to rule (& overrule Congress) by waiver.

One of the discouraging red flags in the whole Wisconsin saga was Ann Althouse's ambivalence about effecting change when she calculated the financial hit she would be taking herself. There may be majority support for bringing unions' privileged financial position to an end, but restructuring entitlements and reforming the tax code, which will hit the general public's bottom line, is still going to be an uphill battle, alas.


Here is a link to Jane's Operation Tree Party. No "how to" for donations yet though.


Wis Democracy Campaign is a union funded front group, the "black money" campaign is cya for wasted funds of his own. The spending was $15 million by unions, $7 million by candidates, and the balance by non-reporting sources from both sides (Club for Growth, OFA, etc). See the MacIver Institute for details. (linked yesterday on one of the posts, also linked on Big Government yesterday).


I read somewhere that redistricting plans in WI have been drawn up for "three decades" by judges because the two sides in the legislature "have been unable to agree". I'd like to know if that can possibly be true and, if so, what it means for the plan Walker just signed. Also, whether the redistricting plan Walker signed this week is likely to be tossed by a Judge Sumi type and on what grounds since the Voting Rights Act strictures (I'm guessing) wouldn't affect WI.

Captain Hate

One of the discouraging red flags in the whole Wisconsin saga was Ann Althouse's ambivalence about effecting change when she calculated the financial hit she would be taking herself. There may be majority support for bringing unions' privileged financial position to an end, but restructuring entitlements and reforming the tax code, which will hit the general public's bottom line, is still going to be an uphill battle, alas.

Althouse isn't a conservative; she just happens to join us occasionally on specific issues. She's roughly the same as Appalled, an honest lib who gets upset at the excesses of the left and who voted for Obama. So expecting her to be in sync on entitlement reform was problematic all along.

Entitlement reform has to be framed in terms of not being enslaved by the state and being subject to the whims of whoever might be in power. Republicans haven't done this because frankly under Bush they were as bad as donks in terms of throwing money at groups to satisfy them. This has to be Tea Party driven and, I agree, won't be easy. But it's a fight that has to be won.


DebinNC, that sounds right. The left has several lawsuits pending with one tossed out of court in Milwaukee as baseless. They are using VRA type complaints in the Federal Courts, the WI Supreme Court is not considered receptive to their arguments.

I think at least one attempt to overthrow the collective bargaining reforms is in the Federal Courts as well.


That would be the one, where they filed the lawsuit before they saw the shape of the district, right.

Ben Franklin

Adam Smith and Modern Republicans.....

"Thankfully, says Smith, human beings have a natural propensity to negotiate or, as he describes it, to truck, barter, and exchange. “Give me that which I want, and you shall have this which you want” is not only the manner in which we acquire most things in this world, but it is the building block for an economically advanced society. Thus, Smith declares in his most famous passage:

It is not from the benevolence of the butcher, the brewer, or the baker that we expect our dinner, but from their regard to their own interest. We address ourselves, not to their humanity but to their self-love, and never talk to them of our own necessities but of their advantages.

People who read this passage and nothing else of Smith tend to regard it as an affirmation of the virtue and efficacy of selfishness over and against the relative impotence of altruism. But that isn’t its significance for Smith. Yes, our personal interests act as a sharper spur to action than the interests of others, but the same may be said for the cocker spaniel. The difference is not that we have selfish interests, but that only by understanding the interests of others are we able to fulfill our own.

Indeed, the passage attests to the human capacity for empathy, the focus of Smith’s other great work, The Theory of Moral Sentiments. It is because of our natural tendency to stand in the shoes of others and see the world through their eyes that we can appeal to their interests. The commercial effect of this practice is that we individually learn how to make the kinds of exchanges that, in the aggregate, lead to the wealth of a nation.

This brings us back to the all-powerful king. Fundamentally, he is no different from the rest of us. Regardless of the scepter and pomp, set him down on a deserted island and he would be just as helpless. Still, when he is seated on the throne he can remedy his helplessness by ordering others to attend to his needs. He can also force them to attend to the needs of one another. In this respect, he provides an alternative way of thinking about how we might distribute the resources of society apart from relying on the dull instinct of altruism or the even the organizational force of self-interest guided by empathy.

And yet, says Smith, if we consider those cases where, because of assumed wisdom and/or threatened force, a single person directs considerable resources, we will soon see that this third way fails to match the decentralized power of truck, barter, and exchange. Reflecting on the creature comforts that even the meanest person enjoys in a developed society, Smith says, if we

consider what a variety of labour is employed about each of them, we shall be sensible that without the assistance and co-operation of many thousands, the very meanest person in a civilized country could not be provided, even according to, what we very falsely imagine, the easy and simple manner in which he is commonly accommodated. Compared, indeed, with the more extravagant luxury of the great, his accommodation must no doubt appear extremely simple and easy; and yet it may be true, perhaps, that the accommodation of an European prince does not always so much exceed that of an industrious and frugal peasant, as the accommodation of the latter exceeds that of many an African king, the absolute master of the lives and liberties of ten thousand naked savages."


Thanks, henry. I also read that 75% of WI blacks are congregated in the Milwaukee area. That would seem to frustrate the VRA argument being used state-wide.


Iowahawk...tweeting the obvious...

If public employees worked as hard at their jobs as they do at their tantrums, they'd be qualified to work in the private sector.

...or alternatively...Iowahawk strikes again.


Ann Althouse's ambivalence about effecting change when she calculated the financial hit she would be taking herself.

Wait a minute. An educated, professional Democrat doesn't want change because it hits her pocketbook too hard? I thought only Republicans cared about government reaching into their wallets. I thought Democrats loved paying extra money that government can run more smoothly.

JM Hanes

Thanks, henry. The backstories you've been providing have made a huge, very interesting difference!

That's the web at its best, really, isn't it? There's so much we could never learn from the national press, -- not just in terms of selective coverage, but also when it comes to clarifying details that they just don't pick up on themselves -- whether it's this story, or news in Alaska, or underlying trends in education, or, or, or.


I'm moderately pleased with the recall result, and will be interested to see what happens next week as well. But, truth be told, I haven't followed the recall efforts much. I admit to a certain discouragement that comes from living in Madison, where you see lots of "Recall Walker" bumper stickers, "Stop the WAR on public employees" posters in home windows," etc. I find that I've been tuning it out.

NPR/WPR on the radio at the coffee shop has, I notice, shown a high interest in covering the whole thing the last few days. While there is no explicit cheerleading, I get the sense that they were excited at the prospect of tossing the R's. Now that the R's still retain control, I expect the coverage to diminish considerably. And for there to be little next week about the D recalls -- though there is a confound in assessing thing because there are also fewer races.

Ben Franklin

The Gorgon is a Dem? I question teh label........

Danube of Thought

My recollection is that Althouse was anything but ambivalent about the Walker legislation; she was a wholehearted supporter.

But yes, entitlement reform is going to be an uphill battle, but one that must be waged and won if we are to avoid national insolvency.

Look for the Obama proposal to be highly redistributive and filled with gimmicks to distort te CBO scoring.


NPR was also busy running stories about how we need to "understand" the rioters in London. Feh.


It's as if they don't have a clue at all, from Helene Cooper in the Times, sarc:

Now, coming off one of his worst weeks since taking office, Mr. Obama is nearing a decision on whether he really meant that. Is he willing to try to administer the disagreeable medicine that could help the economy mend over the long term, even if that means damaging his chances for re-election?

The Federal Reserve’s finding on Tuesday that there is little prospect for rapid economic growth over the next two years was the latest in a summer of bad economic news. One administration official called the atmosphere around the president’s economic team “angry and morose.”


Althouse is definitely a mixed bag. But she and husband were excellent on covering the protests at the capitol earlier this year, often bettering the local (and national) news media.

For her efforts she got union thugs congregating on the sidewalk outside her house yelling intimidations.

Danube of Thought

Minus 21 at Raz today; 43% overall.

RCP average is now 43.3/50.0, which I believe is an all-time worst for this fraud.


“angry and morose.”

They need to buck up.

JM Hanes

Captain Hate:

I realize that Althouse is not a conservative, but she was not exactly rooting for the unions in Wisconsin. Perhaps it was just their tactics she deplored, but in general, she is not entirely unsympathetic to Republican positions.

"Clevelanders are unfortunately almost completely bereft of an accent."

I thought this little factoid was fascinating: When Peter Sellers was looking for prototypical, accent-free American English speech to use when he played Chauncey Gardener, he took Bud Abbott as his model.

Rick Ballard

Reid's picks for the Stupid Super Committee guarantee that the deadlock provisions of the debt deal will be used.

Now, if I just knew what the hell the deadlock provisions were...

Ben Franklin

And the CNN/ORC International Poll released Tuesday also indicates that while Republicans may have had the upper hand in the recent battle over raising the debt ceiling, they appear to have lost a lot of ground with the public and the party's unfavorable rating is now at an all time high.
Only 41 percent of people questioned say the lawmaker in their district in the U.S. House of Representatives deserves to be re-elected - the first time ever in CNN polling that that figure has dropped below 50 percent. Forty-nine percent say their representative doesn't deserve to be re-elected in 2012. And with ten percent unsure, it's the first time that a majority has indicated that they would boot their representative out of office if they had the chance today.
"That 41 percent, in the polling world, is an amazing figure. Throughout the past two decades, in good times and bad, Americans have always liked their own member of Congress despite abysmal ratings for Congress in general," says CNN Polling Director Keating Holland. "Now anti-incumbent sentiment is so strong that most Americans are no longer willing to give their own representative the benefit of the doubt. If that holds up, it could be an early warning of an electorate that is angrier than any time in living memory."
As for all members of Congress, the poll indicates only a quarter of the public says most members of Congress deserve to be re-elected.
A lot of that anger seems directed toward the GOP. According to the survey, favorable views of the Republican party dropped eight points over the past month, to 33 percent. Fifty-nine percent say they have an unfavorable view of the Republican party, an all-time high dating back to 1992 when the question was first asked.


According to Prof. Jacobson, things are still up in the air in Wisconsin:

Update: Next week’s recall elections may be even more important than I thought, since one group is claiming that a “RINO” state senator (Dale Schultz, who voted against the collective bargaining bill) is a risk to switch parties, which would flip the Senate unless Republicans take back one more seat. The Wisconsin State Journal referred to Schultz as one of the “ultimate winners” of last night’s vote because it puts him in the driver’s seat.


Jim Ryan

Weren't the provisions very deep cuts? Should a tea party fella hope for deadlock?


Fred "light bulb" Upton has been named to the sooooper commitee.


Now that the R's still retain control, I expect the coverage to diminish considerably.

I sometimes wonder if after election ads would be a good idea. Highlight the conservative ideas that either won or lost & how that is gonna affect the citizens.
The MFM drops the story if conservatives we need to trumpet our own cause.
...and if we lose, it can be a teaching moment.




Thanks C.R., that is new info for me.

Jim Miller

JM Hanes - Obama won Kapanke's 32nd district 60.8-37.6. Walker also won it, but only by 49.5-48.8. What's remarkable is not that Kapanke lost last night, but that he had been able to hold a Democratic-leaning district as long as he had.

All nine of the recall districts were won by Obama in 2008 -- and by Walker in 2010. That isn't accidental; both parties picked fights where they had some reason to think they could win.

In my analysis of the results, I argue that what we saw last night is a return to normal.

Dave (in MA)

Boehner's Super Friends:
House Republican Conference Chairman Jeb Hensarling (R-TX)
House Ways & Means Committee Chairman Dave Camp (R-MI)
House Energy & Commerce Committee Chairman Fred Upton (R-MI)

Ben Franklin


Tanks for the linky....


Ben, I have not read your link yet. I believe the repubs are in unfavorable territory due to not being conservative enough. The 2010 referendum stemmed from the same dissatisfaction.


Portman, Kyl, Toomey for the Senate. Good team.

Ben Franklin


By Ruth King on August 10th, 2011

URL to article: History Dangerous to Repeat Posted By Bruce Thornton

The recently passed Budget Control Act calls for automatic across the board budget cuts of $1.2 trillion if the Congressional “super-committee” cannot agree on targeted reductions. About half of this amount would come from the defense budget, which already is slated for $350-400 billion in cuts over the next decade under the debt-ceiling legislation. In all, the Pentagon could lose $1 trillion in funding, on top of the $430 billion lost so far under President Obama. According to Defense Secretary Leon Panetta, such “disastrous” cuts “would do real damage to our security, our troops and their families, and our ability to protect the nation.”

Ben Franklin

" unfavorable territory due to not being conservative enough."

Is that the sense of humor Hit credits you with?

btw; Where is he?

Captain Hate

The super-committee was a dumb thing to include in the bill. Looking at the stooges Harry Reid put in place makes it obvious that no sane agreement can emerge. So defense will take it in the chops? Seriously Boehner, were you drunk when you agreed to that?


PD mentioned exactly what I have noticed in the last 24 hours. The media is consistently pushing an "You have to understand the frustrations of the rioters as have-nots in a city with so much wealth". NBC on its evening news even pointed a picture of an office building/townhouse bldg that had just sold for 41 million. Dollars I think. I also saw it from some Annenberg media prof.

Social engineering for political gain created the internal hollowness that prevents so many of these rioters from having an internal moral compass to regulate their behavior.

And we are being pushed by the media to engage in more levelling legislation to take care of the have nots?

DOT-You would enjoy Minogue's new book The Servile Mind and where he sees these perfectionist schemes by the govt to "protect" the "vulnerable" going. He is an LSE poli sci prof who gets it. You may be able to get it over there in paperback.


Rick Ballard/Jim Ryan-- the deadlock mechanism is equally deep civilian ( NON-entitlement) and Defense cuts. This Fall McConnell and Cantor will be negotiating with Senate "DINOs" to see if they can get real Tax Reform done to eliminate most deuctions/credits and lower rates and repatriate $1TRILLION overseas corporate profits with say $175 BILLION going to the US Treasury, that would allow a compromise on the automatic cuts. NOTHING WILL happen on entitlemnts until the Fraud is booted out of the white house and McConnell is majority leader. One step at a time; beat Obama, McConnell bcomes majority leader Obamacare is repealsed by a simple majority RECONCILIATION vote (just like it passed --sweet), Medicaid becomes a block grant (no more Medicaid entitlement just like welfare reform), then the national debate on Medicare/Soc Sec. That is the conservative plan. I believe the Repubs will follow that conservative plan out of their own self interest.

Ben Franklin

" One step at a time; beat Obama,"

Watch that first step. It's a doozy...........


Well, considering some where around 70% of the population didn't want the Debt Limit raised, and over 60% support Cut, Cap, and Ballance, it is no wonder people dissaprove of congress. Some on the left may think this means they have an opening, but I doubt it. In November of 2012, the Republican candidates will be campaigning on Cut, Cap, and Ballance, and the Dems will be campaigning on raising spending $7 Trillion dollars over the next 10 years and raising taxes to pay for it. Which of those two do you think will win?


McClintock pointed that out in explaining his "no" vote.

Budget Control Act 2011: Sequestration Is An Insufficient Guarantee

By TOM MCCLINTOCK, on August 2, 2011 Dissecting the So-Called "Budget Control Act 2011": Part 6 Congressman McClintock gives a six part analysis on the failures of the "Budget Control Act of 2011".

The most promising feature of the Budget Control Act is an automatic sequestration feature that would order cuts in spending if Congress failed to enact the specified $1.2 trillion in deficit reductions to be recommended by the Joint Committee or if Congress failed to send a balanced budget amendment to the states.

As discussed above, these provisions can be circumvented to the point that they are largely meaningless, which makes sequestration much less a guarantee than it first appears. But assuming for a moment that the sequestration were actually invoked, its impact would fall heavily and disproportionately on defense spending while leaving general government spending relatively untouched.

After a maximum two percent cut to Medicare, reductions are split evenly between defense and non-defense spending. The problem becomes two-fold.

First, certain aspects of defense spending, such as Homeland Security, military construction, and veterans benefits are reclassified as “non-defense” for purposes of sequestration, meaning that defense programs could conceivably be subject to both sides of the reductions.

Second, core defense spending has already been subject to significant budget reductions in the last two years, while non-defense spending has been bloated by a parade of stimulus programs. The “evenly divided” cuts therefore begin to look like a contest between a marathoner and a couch potato over who can lose the most weight.


Captain Hate-- I disagree about defense spending. My personal sense of conservative voters is that everything has waste and needs to be cut, including defense, and conservatives hope that the military "can do" with less. I don't think conservative voters are right, because Hitler's invasions, Soviet expansionism and 9/11 all happened after big US defense cuts-- no coincidence. But the current reality is thatEVERYTHING in Federal Spending must be cut. The TOTAL Federal budget has to be reduced $600 Billion/YEAR. No way that happpens without defense cuts.


How do ya' like them apples?

Michael Moore: Matt Damon For President.

Geez. The stupid is very strong in this one.


Hensarling is a good pick.

Ben Franklin

TK; McClintock has a rep for integrity, but in politics you can take that quality and add $1.25 for a trip on the city bus.

The people who voted against this may reap rewards, or at least, evade the punishment. Sometimes when you make sausage, you get blood sausage. (DoT; that means 'you sometimes get what you want, sometimes you don't)


"Look for the Obama proposal to be highly redistributive and filled with gimmicks to distort te CBO scoring."

Well, yeah. He's a liar.

Captain Hate

NK, I'm not understanding what you're overall point is because you seem to be arguing both sides. I'm certainly not saying that there isn't plenty in defense that deserves to be cut; I'm skeptical of the right things being cut.

Captain Hate

Dammit: you're == your

Captain Hate

Michael Moore: Matt Damon For President.

Translation: He's too pricey for my crummy movies so maybe he'll work on the cheap for me if I slobber all over the vain fool.


I want a solution to the debt problem. I don't want a grand bargain, I don't want compromise, I don't want purity, I don't want "fair share" taxes.

Those things are merely maneuvers. They are fundamentally different from a solution. They are not a solution. I want a solution.

I doubt I will see it.

Charlie (Colorado)

(why do you spell it that way, Capt)

Dialect: that's more or less the way it's pronounced in the northern part of the state. Down in Cincinatti it sounded more like Oh-hiya.

Ben Franklin

" I want a solution."

Imagine you were in the WH. Your Party controls both Houses.

What would you do? And don't say 'Lower taxes/cut spending'.

that would be similar to saying 'I want to climb Everest' without a strategy and planning with a Team in mind.

Danube of Thought

Raz August 8: "A new Rasmussen Reports national telephone survey finds that 41% of Likely U.S. Voters would vote for their district’s Republican congressional candidate, while 39% would choose the Democrat instead."

Ben Franklin


'Climb Everest' would be a difficult task, comparable to solving a fiscal dilemma.......


Hey Captain-- my point is that Boehner made a deal on the automatic cuts that was politically pragmatic and smart. Are the defense cuts a good idea from a national security perspective? I don't think so. But, SECDEF Gates did a good national service by outling how cuts can be made and minimizing the effect on rediness. Here's hoping Panetta and the repubs don't screw it up.

Charlie (Colorado)

The progressives in Wisconsin are now battle hardened activists with on-the-ground experience. I wouldn't get too cocky if I were him. His polls are dismal. When he's eligible for recall next year there is every likelihood they'll go for it. Feingold's waiting in the wings."

Ben, if they do, they'll be

- doing the recall in an election year that it already looking very bad for Democrats

- in a state that, from all appearances, is rapidly becoming a success story

- with editorials like the recent Journal-Sentinel one (that somehow came out the day after the recall election) pointing out that Walker's reforms have saved teachers' jobs and brought school districts' budgets into balance.

Captain Hate

Imagine you were in the WH. Your Party controls both Houses.

What would you do? And don't say 'Lower taxes/cut spending'.

Repeal ObamaCare. When doing it announce that it turned out to have too many hidden traps in it which produced the need for waivers from every constituent group with any pull. Say that instead you will work with Congress to institute a much more modest plan with beneficial changes like portability and getting away from tying it to one's current employment.

By just doing that, employment would pick up almost immediately with that actuarial nightmare removed. The economy would rebound for the same reason. El JEFe would probably be guaranteed re-election because of showing such unexpected modesty and willingness to work with the other side.

Captain Hate

NK, thanks for the response. You probably have more faith in Gates than I do but, other than that, your response made me feel better than I had previously. That's not easy to do.

Charlie (Colorado)

Perhaps it was just their tactics she deplored, but in general, she is not entirely unsympathetic to Republican positions.

Meade is considerably more conservative than Althouse is; I've noticed since they married that Ann now seems to be a fairly reliable Tea Party sympathizer.

Ben Franklin


Thanks for picking up on that. My point was; political toughness makes all the difference. If you go at your opponents, Hammer and Tong, you will minimize your own casualties while you buy time for your programs to work.

That's my fundamental problem with Obama. He won't confront.
He won't fight. Therefore, the opposition has stymied any chance of the Public seeing his programs work. That's the Political Dichotomy.

Walker may succeed. Obama has failed.

Charlie (Colorado)

"Clevelanders are unfortunately almost completely bereft of an accent."

Oddly, that's exactly what my kin in Cummings GA claim of Atlanta.

Ben Franklin

CH; Obamacare, as you call it, is not in effect.....

Even if it were, your solution is printed on a napkin. It's a little more complicated than that.

Danube of Thought

"I doubt I will see it."

You won't.

I wait in vain for Obama (or anyone else) to tell me what my "fair share" of the income tax burden would be, and how that number was arrived at. Assuming fair share is synonymous with "the rich should pay more," it is well worth noting that in the U.S. the rich pay the fairest share among all the 24 nations of the OECD. That is, for the top ten per cent of earners, the ratio of their share of taxes paid to their share of income earned is the highest in the industrialized world. And yet the left thinks that "fairness" has not been reached.

And can it really be said that for half the people in this country a fair share is zero? And for many of them, it's less than zero: they pay nothing, but they receive government checks as what are euphemistically (and ridiculously) called "refundable tax credits."

What Europe now knows, and what the American left willfully refuses to know, is that the engine of free-market capitalism simply cannot afnd will not generate enough confiscatable wealth to fund their utopian welfare apparatus.

Ultimately the inevitable awakening to these undeniable truths is likely to lead to violence.

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