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September 22, 2011


Net wit.

I suspect Kaplan's business model is evolving.

Charlie (Colorado)

Having never taken these exams, could you clue me in on what the advantage would be?

Benjamin Franklin

There are too many dang lawyers. The Healthcare Industry had a shortage of nurses for years and I thought the demand would probably always outlast the supply. Now, I'm seeing something of a change. Apparently, the Industry is seeing a surplus of healthcare workers and has now undertaken the firing of nurses, then re-hiring them at a much reduced hourly rate.

We've had a surplus of lawyers for a long, long time...


Monday, September 19, 2011

Sobering Numbers: Law Graduates Who Do Not Become Lawyers

Brian Tamanaha

It goes without saying that people enroll in law school expecting to become lawyers. They might attend law school because they always wanted to become a lawyer, or because the economy is poor and they have no other opportunities. But when they plunk down $150,000 or more in tuition and living expenses for a degree, they do so with the reasonable assumption that they will obtain jobs as lawyers when they get out.

This obvious point bears repeating because members of the legal academy frequently assert that a law degree is a plus for all kinds of careers. Setting aside the plausibility of this assertion--it is dubious at these prices--students expect that at the very least they will become lawyers.

Thus it is sobering to learn that, for the class of 2009 (nine months after graduation), at 30 law schools, only 50 percent or fewer of the graduates obtained jobs as lawyers. At nearly 90 law schools, one-third or more of graduates did not land jobs as lawyers nine months after graduation. 2009 was not a good year for legal employment, but 2010 was even worse (numbers are still unavailable), and 2011 will not be much better. Many of these schools, I should add, had poor success rates even before the current legal recession.

Army of Davids

Will be interesting to watch Democrats debate Democrats (Obama v Senate Democrats, Bill Clinton) on tax increases.

I personally think raising taxes right now is absolutely stupid. But I have no vote in the matter.


Having never taken these exams, could you clue me in on what the advantage would be?

I have no idea.

Rob Crawford

Apparently lawyers-to-be are incapable of doing simple math.


There are too many college professors.

Melinda Romanoff

Hi, Rob!

I would point out that law students, and most college students for that matter, learn about the negative consequences of compound interest the hard way. So there's a pesky geometric progression thrown in the mix.


Mel- good luck going through whatever it is you are going through today.

Melinda Romanoff

Thanks MayBee, 2 hours 'til D-Hour.


Just a thought but they give the same test on the same day. Is it to keep smartphones from taking pictures of the test questions and then faxing to buds on the West coast before their test time?

I really am honest but I've cleaned up after a few scoundrels and remember their patterns.

Army of Davids

Friend plays in all lawyer softball league.

Says the rule book is two inches thick and they are constantly stopping play to argue over the rules.


Sounds like our economy.

Jim Miller

Here's Thomas Sowell on the "debates".

"The so-called "debates" among Republican presidential aspirants are classic examples of the media spreading misunderstanding instead of enlightenment."


(Incidentally, I thought what Rick Warren did in 2008, having the candidates answer exactly the same questions independently, was better than any recent "debates".)


what time is it? We cannot say. CERN seems to be challenging Einstein's Theory of Relativity. They think they just got some subatomic particles to go faster than the speed of light. LUN

This is gonna mess with all sorts of doctoral dissertations and stuff. OOOHWEE! Someone's gonna be pissed.....

And that, dear children, is one reason we call them theories, not laws.


NO, Peter, there really aren't too many of us although the demand/supply ratios are not in synch in terms of disciplines...If you visit colleges and demand great dorm rooms, new student unions, gourmet meals, etc. and psychiatrists, counselors, organized activities...you are creating the rise of college costs. There are actually fewer professors teaching now than 10 years ago. We are not all post-modernists teaching 10 students. (Please grade my 45 essays tonight).


My guess is this incident will get a few lawyers employed. Hopefully, Gov Perry can address it in one of his debate replies.


Have students lost all 1st amendment rights?

Sara (Pal2Pal)

It just hit 100 degrees here, 4 pm in late September, what's up with that?


Some investment advice from...

Jim Rogers: Buy euro if Greece defaults


what's up with that?

I'm sure Mr. Gore would be pleased to offer an opinion.

Thomas Collins

Make fun of lawyers all you want. A vigorous advocacy system is the result of a self-evident truths polity that we have been (at least so far). Vigorous lawyering is the result of the hustle and bustle of a body politic in which folks pursue their own idea of happiness, not the cause of it. A society in which custom rules does not need a vigorous advocacy system. We are not such a custom based society (although we may be on our way to degenerating into a bureaucratic nanny state society).

I know that my thoughts on this are not popular across the ideological spectrum. So be it. I am happy that I have been a part of a vigorous advocacy system, and am disheartened that so many folks whom I respect think that vigorous advocacy can be replaced by a Potemkin village type consensus.


TC-there is definitely a move to shift back to a status society. Without an appreciation as to the effects.

You grab your armor and I'll get mine. We will try to explain what the real foundation for the prosperity was.


It takes a village, TC....not.

Melinda Romanoff


I'm more on board with those points, economically speaking, than most here would probably believe.

Well put.

Jim Miller

Thomas Collins - The rule of law is a wonderful thing, one of the great human inventions. And we need lawyers to make it work.

But you can have too much of any good thing, and I think that we may have reached that point, with law, in the United States, that we sometimes use laws where we would, for example, be better off using social controls.

That doesn't make lawyers the bad guys, any more than too-complex software makes software developers bad guys.

(In the next month or so, I plan a longish post on Rob McKenna, who I like and admire, making this general point at more length. I'd be honored if you would take a look at it when I get it up.)

Thomas Collins

That's right, matt. It doesn't take a village in the prog sense. It takes folks pursuing their view of the good within a framework of rules. That requires a vigorous system of advocacy.

I'd be glad to take a look, Jim Miller, although other JOM lawyers can speak to these issues with more authority than I.

Thanks, rse. Good to see another warrior for this view. I just hope that those fighting the status society realize that if the advocacy system is ruined, what replaces it is not going to lead to more economic freedom.

Mel, good to have some support from the financial world. Of course, I must acknowledge that you have probably been frustrated at times by lawyers who draft those financial indentures in a sloppy manner.

Melinda Romanoff


Just lazy, or opportunistic, lawyering.

But your thoughts are why I continue to believe in the reason of fair court, which dovetails very nicely my beliefs in free and unfettered markets.

DVd drive

thank you very much, it is good

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