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October 18, 2011



Third time - Here is a live feed of the debate at Weasel Zipper.

Soylent Red

Oh! A new thread!



Bachmann is doing well.


I was told to come here. Blame Clarice.

Food fight between Santorum and Mitt, and mitt is being an ass. Booing from the crowd. I wouldn't impose Romneycare on a state and I wojuldn't impose Obama care. Cheers

Santorum: Mitt you focused on the wrong problem - healthcare access.

Mitt, the people of MA like it (LIAR LIAR!!!!!)

I'll get the costs down. I understand how to bring the costs down. NO YOU DON"T!

Newt: Let's focus. A MA company is being fined $750,000 because their healthcare plan is inadequate. Your plan is not Obamacare it just sucks. It's big government. Not as much as Obamacare but too much.

Mitt: I got the idea for an individual mandate from you.

Liar liar.

Michelle is screaming: ANDERSON ANDERSON

Mitt - it was right for our state

Michelle, Obamacare is so unpopular that it had to reject the class act. What this has to do with the Mitt discussion I don't quite understand.


I can't deal with Bachmann's laugh.

Danube of Thought

I wish Tom McClintock had run.


What I'm seeing across the blogosphere is everyone, and I mean everyone, is sick to death of these debates.

Dave (in MA)

Oh, great. Perry is one of those people who say "hithe".

Sara (Pal2Pal)

Food fight between Santorum and Mitt, and mitt is being an ass. Booing from the crowd.

I think they were booing Santorum, not Romney.

And what the hell is Perry talking about and what was that childish face he just made?


I wish Tom McClintock had run.

Me too.

Mitt is appealing to Anderson Cooper...geez that is sad. Help me Anderson!


And we are back:

What is the alternative to Obamacare. Paul - will you keep any of Obamacare?

No it all sucks. We have too much government management, we want to let the American people to opt out of govt management. Competition, tort reform and let the people control their own money.

Cain: I would keep none of obamacare. We all agree it's a disaster. I would start with HR3400 - market driven patient centered reform, which is lots of things.

Perry:Texas has lots of uninsured, so what do you say?

We have some of the finest healthcare in the world and a huge number of illegals because the feds have failed to secure the border and Mitt you hired illegals and thus you are a hypocrit.

Mitt, I never hired an illegal in my life. Mitt is being an ass. He's now asking Anderson to intervene. Mitt is being a real ass, he says: It's been a tough couple of debates for Rick. (Asshole)

You put a magnet in the state to draw in illegals.

Perry: You stood in front of the people and lied and said you did not have illegals on your property. I have always been against amnesty and you have always been for it.

Mitt concedes that he had illegals and let them go, and then chastises Perry. Mitt was a victim of the illegals.

Do you guys think Mitt is being an ass?

central cal

An ass? Yes!


I do, Jane.


I smell blood. Goody.


Will you finish the fence?

Cain - will you electrify the fence?

yes I believe we should secure the border and it will be a combination of a fence, technology and boots on the ground. And let's fix the problem instead of screwing around. Empower the states to do what the feds won't.

Perry: is it possible to build a fence?

Yeah but it is not realistic it costs $30b. The real answer is boots on the ground, and use predator drones.

Bachmann, Obama's illegal uncle and aunt are allowed to stay in the country. I will build a double wall fence along the entire border.


Good for Bachmann bringing up Obama's Aunt Zeituni & Uncle drunk guy!!


Perry is right that it is the Feds job & they are not doing their job.


Romney is teflon coated or something.


I'm done with Mitt.

Beating up the Governors of States that share a border with Mexico makes no sense...when the Feds refuse to enforce our nation's laws & have refused for decades.

central cal

I am liking Peryy tonight, (so far)


Good for anyone exposing Mitt's assness.


Once again, Mitt and Rick look foolish fighting with each other over carp when the country is in such trouble.

Looky there, the lady brings it back to reality! OBAMA IS THE PROBLEM.

I don't care if they have no teeth and laugh like hynenas, as long as, they bring it and fight for us, our families, and our country.

central cal

To quote our Leader (after the comma) Mitt, pheh!


Michelle: English as the official language

Perry: does that makes sense? You can do it, but by the time it gets built there is a lot better way. I've been dealing with it for 10 years and it's because the feds have not done their job. we know how to secure the border.

Mitt interrupts: We love legal immigration and I am now pandering. It's not hard. We do what Perry said and stop the employers. And we don't give tuition breaks. and Perry you suck. Booooooooooooooooooooooo

Perry: the bottom line is we have a federal government that has failed. he hit the nail on the head, the magnet and you are part of the problem Mitt.

What is the message to the latino community?

Newt - to all Americans. not just Latinos. latinos want the same thing as everyone else.We need jobs and to take care of our families.

Paul - some latino voters think immigration laws are anti latino.

Some do. A fence is not the answer. Stop putting people in groups. We need a healthy economy and to see everyone as an individual. the court system is prejudiced.

Cain: my messsage to all americans is we have to boost the economy which is why I put forth 999.

Perry - 14th amendment allows anyone born here to be a citizen do you think we should change that?

It's a stupid question so I'm going to talk about jobs and green energy sucks and it is killing our economy.

JM Hanes

Bless you Jane. I really can't bring myself to watch these things any more.

Danube of Thought



Finally, at least some are coming around to the notion, that you present your own view,
not the inane questioner's

Sara (Pal2Pal)

Such different perspectives. I think Romney is rockin' it, Perry is the one, IMHO, who is acting like an a$$. When I said before the last debate that my sense was that Perry wasn't a very nice person, tonight I think that sense is validated. Strength doesn't mean nasty.


I wonder how Mitt found out that the guy working for his lawn company was illegal?


I think Perry's attack on the lawn workers for Romney is stupid and sleazy.


College Student Credited With Uncovering Possible Election Fraud in Indiana's 2008 Primary

Prosecutors are now investigating. The scandal has already led to the sudden resignation Monday night of Butch Morgan, chairman of the St. Joseph County Democratic Party. He denied any wrongdoing, saying he looks “forward to an investigation that will exonerate me."
Dave (in MA)

Janet, it was a hit job in the paper.

Sara (Pal2Pal)

I wonder how Mitt found out that the guy working for his lawn company was illegal?

It was a big deal during the 2008 campaign. Old news.

Dave (in MA)


It's behind a paywall, though.


Michelle, there is an issue with anchor babies. (Perry said he would not repeal it)

We can deal with it legislatively.

Santorum: Family, faith, marriage to latinos. The family is the basic union of society and the latino community understands that.

Paul: rights don't come in bunches. And on border control - we lack resources. we worry more about the border between Afghanistan and Pakistan/

Do you support opening Yukka mountain.

Newt: We have to look at it scientifically and get rid of the political fight.

Paul: I oppose. What right does 49 states have to say we are going to put our garbage in your state. And the govt should not give subsidies.

Mitt: Paul was right (oh you do not believe that for one second) Other states will bid they can name their price.

Rick: I agree with Mitt. France can deal with this issue, why can't we. We need the states to compete. And we need to talk about the 10th amendment.

real estate bubble: what would you do?

Santorum: Tarp was bad. Fight with Perry and Cain. You all supported it - no we didn't.

The people who were bad were bailed out and now everyone else who is responsible is screwed. Santorum calls Perry a liar.

Mitt: The federal government is bad so let me run it. The right course is to let the economy work.

Cain: I supported the concept of TARP but then the administration screwed with it. we need to get government out of the way, reform Dodd Frank.

Michelle - does the fed gvt have a role? women are losing their nest. I'm a mom, amd this is a real issue and it has to be solved.

OWS: Cain do you still say "blame yourself" Yes -- cheers!!! Their anger is being directed at the wrong place. They should be in front of the WH. More cheers.

Paul: Does Romney understand? huh? Cain has blamed the victims. I'd go to the federal reserve.


I like how Paul always blames the Fed. govt!!


Even kookie Paul has said some well-considered things tonight.


cain: What do they want from Wall street? get to the problem.

Paul: The government is completely incompetent and no one from F&F is in jail. Hear hear!

Romney: Are you sympathetic? The president is bad, he doesn't understand the private sector, he sucks. America is hurting and the president is campaigning not working.

Dave (in MA)

Just once I'd like to hear Romney say that Obama "sucks".


I agree about paul Clarice.

Jim Rhoads a/k/a vnjagvet

How are the questioners handling all of this (mostly) straight talk?

Sara (Pal2Pal)

Dave: I doubt you'll ever hear Romney have any type, even mildly, of a potty mouth. But, what he did just say was pretty intense and I think he got the point across that Obama is a slug.


I hate CNN just because of their advertisements.

Am watching it live in India, and all the ads at the break are how wonderful their reporters and coverage are (ie) "They Think Outside of the Box," "Gp Beyond Borders," etc. It's all BS slogans start to finish.


I missed the first half. Good answer by Newt on Religion.
Perry seems to have difficulty expressing himself coherently in the religion response. Has he been having difficulty expressing himself clearly so far?

Sounds clunky and awkward in comparison to Newt and Romney, regardless of substance.

Dave (in MA)

OK, Perry says "heighth", but Bachmann says "heenious".

Dave (in MA)

(Yes, I'm shallow.)


Is Faith a legitimate issue?

Santorum: they should pay attention to the candidates values. Their faith plays a part in that. The road to salvation is not applicable/

Newt: faith matters because the country is based on faith. But we shouldn't judge how others approach God. how can I trust you with power if you don't pray.

Perry: Will you repudiate Jefford's comments? The issue is whether we will stand by our faith and I don't agree with that person's statement.. He is free to express his opinion and I didn't agree with it. People have no faith in Obama

Mitt: Jeffords said stupid stuff. And the constitution says we don't choose people based on their religion and Rick I wanted you to say that.

So Mitt, do you want Rick to say that?

Rick, I have. I said I did not agree with the pastors remarks;

Defense spending should it be cut? Michelle - this was a historic week because of Iran and Uganda. The United states is completely disrespected and that is all about Obama.

Newt: the supercomputer sucks. The political elite in both parties suck. I'm a cheap hawk. the supercommittee is suicidally stupid.

Paul: you propose a 15% cut in national security. will that hurt. No it will help. we need to get out of all those places. The debt bubble is imploding. it is wise to cut military spending. We can't afford an empire.


Would you negotiate for a hostage?

Cain: policy we do not negotiate with terrorists and then look at the individual situation.

Santorum: No you can't negotiate with terrorists. The first duty of the president is to protect us. Obama has political objectives instead of objectives for success.

Paul: We are on economic suicide so I will repeat my last answer. I want to hear someone willing to cut something.

Why do we send foreign aid when the people are suffering?

Perry: we need to talk about defunding the UN (YES YES YES)


Mitt: Foreign aid has several elements one is defense. We shouldn't borrow from the chinese to give humaritarian aid. We cut the budget; obamacare, medicare, federal employment thru attrition.

Paul: Foreign aid should be the easiest thing to cut.

Would you cut aid to Israel. Yes,

Look at Egypt. How stupid was that!

Bachmann, no we should not cut foreign aid to israel. Obama sucks. we should get Iraq to reimburse us. (Donald trump's influence)

I'm getting tired.

Jim Miller

Again, I feel pleased that I don't have either satellite or cable TV. I'm sure I could find the "debate" somewhere on the net, but I have just enough self control not to look.

We really, really have to find some alternatives to these idiotic "debates".


Anyone ever been in the Venetian in Las Vegas? It is a huge facility. I don't know how anyone found where the debate is located in the place.
I sure like the way Newt has been handling the debate questions. He really is doing the best and has done the best throughout all of the debates.


Could Sarah Palin be worse than these guys?

Anyways, Jane deserves a Purple Heart or the Medal of Honor, or both! Bravo Jane.

I would call this debate..Salty.

(salty.... Upset, embarrassed or indignant as a result of humiliation or wrong-doing by another person)


There must be something wrong with me this morning. I'm enjoying the debate.

Paul is feisty on many points, especially Foreign Aid, but Bachmann completely and forcefully disagrees with him. Newt seems very well spoken and adult tonight.

At this point the thing that sticks with me is Perry's difficulty in speaking. It's almost like English is a second Language to him. He's not impressing me at all primarily because of that, especially in comparison to the other candidates.

Jim Rhoads a/k/a vnjagvet

Newt has always been a good debater. But he ain't presidential material IMO.

central cal

I really cannot stand Romney,

Melinda Romanoff

I would find great entertainment if they were debating over the Cirque Du Soleil pool.


CC, I was just about to post the very same thing in the very same words.


Paul and Santorum fight over negotiating for hostages.

I've been to the venetian Glasater.

Can you beat Obama? (talk about a chip shot)

Why shouldn't we go with Romney.

Santorum. I can win the swing state of PA.

Mitt: I haven't spent my life in politics. (yeah right) I can put the country on the right track (you are a squish)

Perry: Mitt you were 47th in the country in job creation we were the best in Texas. I will draw that bright contrast.

Mitt: you were the chairman of Al gore, yada yada and you sucked in texas. You created 40% of the jobs in Texas

Perry: you lie. Americans want someone they trust with executive experience and you failed in MA

Mitt: I did everything right.

And he gives Mitt the last word.

Cain: You are tied for number one - so who would you pick, perry or Mitt.

Cain: I'd pick myself you moron. i'll be the problem solver who fixes stuff instead of the president who fixes nothing.

Now let's go back to Mitt.

Mitt: I'm just great.

Bachmann: Obama will be a one term president. I'm more differnet than anyone.

Newt: maximizing bickering is not the road to the WH and that is what you have done Anderson.

The end!

Melinda Romanoff

And I really, really distrust someone whom must turn their whole body to speak to me and will not turn their head.

Totally off-putting.

central cal

Our lives have been and are quite divergent, Clarice, but I think our hearts and minds are in sync.


Good job of Cain on the "I should be President" question, focusing it back on why he's different and better than the primary enemy Obama.

Now we have Donna Brazille and Arie Fleisher and David Gergen and Gloria Borger to tell us what we just heard.


Jane, thanks for the heroic effort!


See,s that way, cc.

Sara (Pal2Pal)

Go Newt!

Rick Ballard

What do you two have against androids? I think the T-1000 is damned near human, both in appearance and in action. Sure, there are a few minor tip offs but the technology has sure come a long way since R2D2.


*SeeMs, that way*


Yeah thanks, Jane..heroic effort indeed!!!


Exactly, Rick. You put your finger on my sense of him.


Thank you , Jane!!Brava


My pleasure. I am such a loser for having this addiction.

I thought Mitt Lost. I'm not sure who won. Cain certainly didn't lose anything and Perry was better than he was before.


I heard so much stupidity from supposedly important people representing, or so they say, my conservative point of view. It is time to face the fact that some of these well-meaning folks will lose to Obama and lose in a vivid retreat. Only one or two remain who can win. Shall we self-destruct until we have a pure loser?

Doom (and how I wish I could copyright that word).

Melinda Romanoff

Heh, Rick.


The positronic brain, has a limited warranty, Rick.


Newt should be names head of the RNC or something. He's smart and well-spoken but his personal life and some of his political judgements would doom him.

I get the idea Mitt has always led in a world where the tallest, best dressed man in the room was considered the natural leader of men.


Bravo, Jane!

Yep, Rick - robotic, programmed. Remember when people thought W had some kind of "black box" taped under his suit coat, between his rib cage for his debates? I kind of think that could possibly be true of Mitt!

Now, for the best part of these debates - those sponsored by the Liberal media whores ..... I just love watching their hair stand on end at any of the answers or comments by any of the candidates and, especially, the applause and whoops from the audience. They have to know it is OVER for Obama and for them.

That is the BEST part of these debates.



You really do a fine job on your write-ups. Very well done. Thanks.

From only watching the second half I think we still have a horse race.


Snap out of it, MarkO.

Sara (Pal2Pal)

My debate ranking (for what it is worth)

1. Romney
2. Gingrich
3. Cain
4. Paul
5. Bachmann
6. Perry
7. Santorum


He's Don Draper, a little too smooth, hence the comparison to Robert Patrick's rendition
of a terminator.


Thanks for your wonderful live blogging Jane. And I'm happy to hear you've been to the Venetian. All of The Strip is just something.

Melinda Romanoff

Thanks, Jane!


OK, Clarice,

Well, we've got skin crawling, we have Romney that you and others can't stand, we have Cain on a book tour, Bachmann who is embarrassingly stupid, Newt who should be the head of the NRC, Santorum who looks like the freshman invited to the party as a joke, Paul who makes far too much sense to be elected and Perry who steps in it at least once every debate and says it doesn't matter.

Did that read enough like everyone else to please you?

Melinda Romanoff


There was a study, some years ago, that appearance and good looks added a 30-some-odd-% premium to lifetime earnings.

Jim Miller

InTrade odds on Obama winning re-election: 49.3 percent, as I write.

(If I were asked for my advice from someone who just wanted to make money, I would tell them to bet against Obama, at those odds. But I would also warn them that it is quite early in the process.

What would fair odds be at this point? In my opinion, somewhere between 50 and 60 percent against Obama winning next year. 55 percent sounds about right to me.)


I understand that, Mel, and there are studies that the tallest guy in the room is generally perceived to be the best leader for some primitive reason. But I am hoping we grow out of it.

MarkO, I think you are way too critical. I think each candidate said at least one thing wish he/she hadn't but each said something very gppd.

Jim Rhoads a/k/a vnjagvet

Given the condition of the country today, I want someone in the Oval Office with the solidity of a Harry Truman or Ronald Reagan.

When Truman was chosen as the 1944 VP candidate, he was a high school educated Senator whose only real accomplishment was uncovering graft in war contracts. As VP, he was treated like a mushroom until he was unceremoniously thrust into the presidency during a critical period in WWII. At the time he was president, most thought him a dunce. I also thought he was a dunce until I learned the history of the period during which he was president.

Reagan, of course, was Governor of a large state, but was also considered by most of the elite to be a dunce. We all know how he discharged his responsibilities during what we now understand was a critical period in US history.

Truman was a weak communicator; Reagan a master. What they shared was a rock-solid sense of self and a confidence in their country and its ability to push through seemingly insurmountable problems with proper leadership.

We need nothing less now. The question is who measures up? If none do, I share DOT's prediction of doom.


Just watched Greta talking with Sarah Palin. Sarah says the candidates need to stop the nit-picking with each other and take it to the failed President.

She also said that any debate between Obama and Newt would end with Newt clobbering Obama on substance and policy and solutions. However, she didn't know that Newt would be the candidate.

I don't see Sarah endorsing anyone for quite some time.

Melinda Romanoff


I'm always hoping my clogs will bring that type of attention my way.

It also draws snowballs. So, I'll let you know how my research goes.

Rick Ballard


I think there has to be a smidgen of personality involved as well. Mitt may well be the smartest candidate and he's certainly the least prone to take stupid risks but he's absolutely the most prone to take pathetically bad advice from advisers selected solely on the basis of their Top Man credentials. He does not carry the burden of any identifiable conservative principles and he appears unaware of the existence of principles which might slow his blind acceptance of credentialed groupthink.

He also has a very low Q - it might be as low as Typhoid Barry's and that is the only really serious problem. Aside from the cult, of course.



That's fine. I don't expect you to agree with me about that, although on a great many things we do agree. I found myself swearing at the television. Just me. Just a bad reaction to everything including Cooper's icy look and the fact that they put this on CNN.

I missed a martini, I guess.


Sheesh, we should have all just read TM's assessment!


David Gergen just said that Cain has a big problem with his 999 plan.

That tells me Herman Cain and his 999 plan is doing okay:)


She was more willing in the past instances, to cheer on the candidates, still did so, but she was dissapointed, in the overall tone.

Sara (Pal2Pal)

Jim: The only one who could meet your criteria isn't in it ... Sarah Palin.

Melinda Romanoff


I think he is the last of the best trained middle managers, with exceptional car salesman talents. His success lies more with the self-conviction of what comes out of his mouth. He is of average (i.e. =100) intelligence, and has enough narcissistic tendencies to accept the easiest self-promoting argument for policies. One thing though, you pull off an Olympics through superior fund raising and delegation to fast actors.

I don't think he sees any difference between the two.

Jim Rhoads a/k/a vnjagvet

Then I'm with DOT and Mark O.


This was the first debate I watched. I wish Cain had gotten a chance to speak more. The rule this time that whoever was mentioned in the initial answer got time to rebut ensured that Romney would get more time to speak than the others. Anderson framed a disproportionate number of his questions so that would happen. I like Romney even less now than before the debate began. I can't imagine the base turning out in great numbers for him.

Dave (in MA)

Jane, great job!


Every single one of the Republicans ( I never include Paul in anything and this is no exception as he is no conservative or even a Republican) would be a huge improvement over the current incompetent ideologue. And most if not all of them would win as the main requirement is not Obama.

Buck up and lose the defeatist rhetoric, its Obama's best hope that thoughtful and patriotic Americans will get fed up to not participate.

Out he goes. We continue the stable clean up next November.

Uncle BigBad

One silver lining for Perry. Once the media was convinced he was finished, they fell way behind on anti-Perry hit pieces.

Maybe he can now enjoy at least a short respite.

I'm a big (non-financial) Perry supporter. I know what shape Texas is in and I know Perry is responsible for a good bit of it.

In Abilene, there are almost no repo sales, tax revenues are up, oil exploration is up (those jobs are not low-paying and they are not filled by illegals).

Please don't tell OWS there is work in Texas.

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