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October 19, 2011

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Who else?

I blame Hillary.
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Jane

Boy if they get away with this....

Only dozens dead?  I thought there were supposed to be hundreds.

Never have so few been gratified by such a slew.
==============

squaredance

Watch them get away with it--just watch it.

They pretty much gt away with Waco, only Reno resigned.

2O something dead there, but thy were oly cray "white cultist" right.

Gunwalker amount to sedition and treason, and outright business dealings with billionaire Drug Lords.

But no, they real evil in this nation are mortgage and student loan brokers.

Is anyone in the Democcat Party calling for a accounting about this?

This is a million more times worse than Watergate.

If a GOP administration had done this there would be people jail right now and the GOP POTUS would be removed from office.

The real power in this nation is the Democrat machine ad ts Nomenklatura.

O'Reilly.  Double his guard.

Naw, I think this has pemetrated. Obama is going to regret his words about finding out who was responsible.
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Pops

Go figure. Your teeling me the people who don't mind violately international borders, MIGHT just be the criminal class?

Did you ever expect officers to not get killed when you invite this flow by having an open border policy?

Its no different then running a herione den in a day care and then being shocked when a child gets hurt.

Pops

Seriously how stupid is Rick Perry and his handlers to go after Romney on hiring illegals.

A month ago we were all heartless bastards for not wanting to pay for illegal aliens college education, now Perry claims we shouldn't hire illegals.??

Seriously Rick? Just what are they do to with that college degree you made me subsidized??

And just what do you think all those illegally aliens going to college are doing to make money Rick??

Captain Hate

They pretty much gt away with Waco, only Reno resigned.

She never resigned.

narciso

What you were expecting ABC to dig hard, only if they are going after CIA interrogators of Terrorists like Martinez, and Mitchell and Johnson, they'll post their picture, their
home address, even the schools their children attend.

Captain Hate

How long should it take to find out who was behind this in an internal investigation? A week max? Either Stedman was involved or he's too incompetent to run the DOJ; there's no other alternative. I really hope Issa has enough to make him walk the plank because retarded Beria is as bad for the country as retarded Stalin.

bob jones

As far as evil goes, this is about as bad as it gets. Intentionally arming drug cartels to commit murder and mayhem and then blame it on American guns and gun laws in a full, corrupt and phony assault on our second amendment. The problem is Issa now knows that this has been going on for at least 5 years and politicians always protect their own and don't want to bring their past Republican administration into this. So Holder has been offered a chance to change his previously perjured testimony and a few lower level types will be sacrificed and the whole mess will probably be swept under the rug.

matt

what did he know and when did he know it?

I think Issa will let the president and Holder dangle some more and then start showing his cards one by one.

Funny how the Prez and Tapper forgot about the murder of ICE agent Jaime Zapata on the highway from Mexico City to Monterrey. Or the downing of a Mexican government helo by a Barrett .50 cal rifle. Or how pissed off the Mexican government is about this whole mess.

The lapdog media at work again.

narciso

Different operation, that one didn't allow the guns to cross the border, there was sort
of a similar subplot on NCIS-LA, where some
CIA officials dangled a drone to AQ, and oops
they lost it, to the Mexican Cartel, who retargeted it on LA,

Jane

They always forget Zapoata.

I think the Mexican government should sue.

BR

Bob, read here about the difference between the previous actions and Fast and Furious.

BR

This shows the start date of F&F may have been earlier than October 2009:

"Mr. Patino came to the attention of ATF in October 2009. Within three weeks, he had purchased a total of 34 weapons, including the AK-47s from gun dealers cooperating in Fast and Furious...." LUN

Well, if the gun dealer was already cooperating with the ATF in F&F by the time Patino was buying, then it started before October 2009.

BR

I trust Issa and his staff are already looking earlier for its inception and especially emails and docs initiating the plans and approvals.

Jack is Back!

BR,

What is a good resource site or read that shows the full timeline and difference between F&F and Gunwalker? It seems everything is all mixed up on dates and deeds and looks like a dog's breakfast rather than something you can track and make sense of.

Bill in AZ sez it's time for Zero to resign

There is a lot of background information covered in the sidebar at SipseyStreet:
http://sipseystreetirregulars.blogspot.com/
The blog author personally attends many of the hearings and has some pretty good sources of his own.

narciso

I was just about to link them, Codrea in particular, at the Examiner, has come up with many of the ancillary operations, like Castaway, Grenade Walker, et al

narciso

To clarify the point, Sessions the FBI director resigned on unrelated matters, after
WACO.

Sue

Obama had an interview last night? What is it with his continual need to intrude on republican debates?

For the record, the few Perry supporters I have spoken to this morning (here in Texas) have now written him off after last night's debate performance. I think he's probably done.

Sue

Pops,

Seriously Rick? Just what are they do to with that college degree you made me subsidized??

I didn't know you lived in Texas. What part are you in?

DebinNC

I think he's probably done.

Romney claimed in the debate that 40% of the jobs created in Texas (can't remember if he gave a time frame) went to illegals. Perry immediately and angrily said that was a lie. If that is a lie, Romney should be done imo.

Danube of Thought

I still want to know: why do these guys leave their weapons behind so often?

Sue

Deb,

It wouldn't surprise me if Romney's numbers were correct. We are eat up with illegals here. I came here in 2005 saying what I'm about to say regarding illegals...if the fine is $200 for reporting social security numbers that don't match the name, businessmen are chalking it up to the cost of doing business. Until the federal laws change, Perry can't do a damn thing about the illegals in our state. And everyone on that stage knows it. Look at Arizona, if anyone doubts me.

Sue

DoT,

That was my question. Why are the guns being left behind? Someone wants someone to know where those guns came from.

Sue

Oh, and Cain has again changed his mind about releasing prisoners from Gitmo. He is not ready for primetime. I'm getting more depressed about this election by the day.

centralcal

You can add in California, too, Sue.

States that are completely overrun with illegals - as in flooded - are bound to have higher "employment percentage numbers."

Sue

C-cal,

I will give you one example of how little a state or a city can do. Farmers Branch. They tried and failed to stem the tide. Drive through Farmers Branch and you will think you are in Mexico. It freaks me out to see the signs, not in English and Spanish, but totally in Spanish, of the businesses.

squaredance

Right, I forgot about Reno--in my moral imagination, she resigned. She wet more covert.

I should have said 'almost resigned and was forced to feign embarrassment", which is about all that ever happens to Democrat.

Seriously, we have GOP Senators having to resign over dubious racial parsings of off the cuff remarks, and we have the Democrats who can just shrug off open collusion with the worst criminals in the world, collusion that cost hundred of lives.

Neo

“It’s very upsetting to me to think that somebody showed such bad judgment that they would allow something like that to happen,” he said. “And we will find out who and what happened in this situation and make sure it gets corrected.”

This is a definite signal that Obama will throw anybody and everybody "under the bus" if that's what it takes to avoid being directly blamed for "Fast and Furious"

Danube of Thought

Minus 22 at Raz today.

narciso

But this operation, is as they say, multijurisdictional, ATF, DEA, FBI, NSC, (meaning probably CIA) it's not one lone mistake.

DebinNC

I love and trust Herman Cain. That Gitmo gaffe is ridiculous, but not inexcusable imo because I have no doubt Cain sincerely believes we don't negotiate with terrorists. He seems unwilling to make blanket statements when it comes to questions that start with "Would you ever...? Could that be a businessman's aversion to being boxed into a answer without all the facts at hand?..idk. I'm still a huge Cain fan, and Newt is gaining more and more of my respect too.

squaredance

Well it did them take them long to fish off Perry. Bet Texas has a Dem governor soon
,
What a terrible lot the GOP candidates are. What damage they are doing to themselves with these debates. The lot have jumped the shark before there s even a primary.

Doom is right. Why can't the GOP understand what they are dealing with?

The greatest opportunity in a generation and they are blowing it live on TV in front of the whole world. These debates are a disaster.

Sue

I don't love Herman Cain and I see his ship sinking in the next few weeks. Whether those that supported him go back to Perry or head on over to Romney I can't say. But I'm 100% willing to bet that Herman Cain will not be the republican nominee.

fdcol63

The MFM could hype the relatively minor Plame / Wilson / Libby thing ad nauseum, but just can't be bothered to investigate something as serious as F&F.

Sometimes I really feel like Alice.

NK

Bingo Neo-- COS Daley is a smart manager and cynical politician. I am sure he turned over the rocks and found out how Holder tried to cover up F&F's attempt to sting US gun business owners, and it turned out the US Government actually committed the crime of gun running, lost as many as 2000 guns and who knows how many crimes were committed with those weapons in Mexico and US border areas, and God knows how many were killed. Daley has briefed Bam, and Bam now knows how bad it was, and at some point when Issa (or some reporter) get too close, Holder and others will meet the bus undercarriage.

Sue

Bet Texas has a Dem governor soon

I'll take that bet.

centralcal

Sue, you and I could compare notes all day on the illegal Mexican situation and match 100% of the time. The sad part of this is, not that as border states we share the same ills, but that you live in a well-balanced, conservative state and I live in a lunatic liberal left state.

The problem is huge and getting worse every passing year.

Sue

Some analyst said the other day that Obama would be re-elected because there are no scandals in his WH. It is MFM job to make sure none are uncovered between now and re-election.

NK

PS: Bam's "Mistakes were made..." speech when he throws people under the bus for F&F virtually writes itself. The Solyndra speech is trickier. People have no idea how stupid the guarantees were and giving up taxpayer priority in bankruptcy, but they do understand that $500M+ is --poof-- gone.

Sue

NK,

I think the bigger scandal with Solyndra will be how taxpayers got shafted in favor of big contributors. Or at least it would be if anyone reported on it.

Captain Hate

Why can't the GOP understand what they are dealing with?

The GOP is part of the problem. I hate to be in a situation where I sound more alarmist than you but we're fighting a war of at least 2 fronts.

narciso

That was Lichtman of American University, yes they needed the Libby scalp, and they got it
by hook or by crook, something James Stewart
doesn't seem to understand.

Melinda Romanoff

Sue & NK-

Recall that Solyndra was just ONE of the Big Green loans. There are others to bundlers in that industry.

NK

Sue-- correct. That's why Bam's "mistakes were made" speech for Solyndra is trickier. The taxpayer money is poof gone, they assume something crooked happened to benefit fat cat friends. F&F Bam will blame 'overzealous' law enforcement reacting to the scourge of gun violence, blah blah blah. Bam will successfully throw Holder under the bus, chucking Chu for Solyndra is trickier, because the fat cats were Bam's buddies.

Captain Hate

Here's the Hope and Change we can count on: http://cleveland.cbslocal.com/2011/10/18/occupy-cleveland-protester-alleges-she-was-raped/

Sue

NK and Mel,

What we know and what the average person in America knows is 2 different things. We search out the news. My friends and neighbors only notice it reading headlines and flipping through the channels. I mention Solyndra outside of the blogosphere and I am met with a blank stare. Say the name Libby and everyone's eyes light up with knowledge of how he outed a covert operative.

NK

Mel R-- as usual you are right. The Solyndra, and other Green loans stink to high heaven as payoffs th fat cat friends (OMG a Chitown pol paying off pals!!)

Janet

. I hate to be in a situation where I sound more alarmist than you but we're fighting a war of at least 2 fronts.

Some music to go with that thought - Cowboys & Communists (under a cowgirl moon)

Melinda Romanoff

Sue-

Your mention of Libby, which I was not around here for BTW, would bring to mind that da*n ad jingle "When it say Libby's, Libby's, Libby's...", which is now on a loop in my head.

Thankyouverymuch.

Sue

Mel,

You are very welcome. ::grin::

Melinda Romanoff

But I do smell pumpkin pie...

Clarice

I just love it when the Pres gets all wee wee'd up and head mastrerish and threatening, Then I know for sure, pinky promise sure, that he will do what he says-Just like his promise to lose Gitmo or to veto any repeal of CLASS.

narciso

TOTUS was otherwise occupied Clarice, otherwise he would have gotten the memo.

Captain Hate

Has TOTUS been recovered yet?

Jane

I think it is time to pack up for the island. This is just ridiculous.

Can anyone find any references today to teh Indiana voter fraud scandal or have they all been scrubbed?

Danube of Thought

Why can't the GOP understand what they are dealing with?

I think the party does understand, and is uniformly depressed. I can't blame the party; it can't force anyone to run. The only people who decided to do it are these sad sacks.

It really would have been wonderful if Tom McClintock had run. No one would have known him at the outset, but I believe he would be the frontrunner by now. What a tragedy.

narciso

My local paper, has left out the CLASS decision, for the second day in a row, you would think down here, it's an important issue.

Janet

I put this on the Republican Fight Night thread -
"The debate format is harder on Republican candidates cause they believe different things....like us here at JOM. The Dems are ALL pro-abort, lots of taxes, big Big BIG government, elites taking care of victims & promising goodies,... They just have to pick their American Idol front man or woman. It never gets very contentious with them because there's not a dime's worth of difference between them."

The debate format seems especially awful when we're running against an incumbent Dem. Our guys/gals are all beat up before they make it to the general election.

Jane

I'm really sick of people deeming who does and does not have a chance. (Come to think of it, I do it too.)

Captain Hate

I can't blame the party; it can't force anyone to run.

They could act like the adults in the room and say they're not taking part in this absurdly prolonged campaign schedule where potential candidates have to put their lives on hold and run around like a bunch of hopped up on sugar kids after Halloween. And march like a bunch of organ-grinder monkeys to the MFM's debate schedule while the nation yawns.

centralcal

Cross posting from the animal thread:

Just arrived at work, so am behind on what topics are underway on what threads. Very interesting piece at Jim Geraghty (NRO) from his Obi Wan Kenobi. I am starting to think it is a group effort, not one person, written by some of our more astute commenters here.

fdcol63

I've been a lifelong Republican and am a firm believer in a strong 2-party system.

But even I am getting sick of the GOP leadership and their limp-wristed failure to confront the MSM and liberals on some of this junk.

Rang, rang, the schoolbell's shot.

All those kids with the pumped up kicks.
==============

Janet

Howard Stern show interviews some OWSers.
*warning* extremely sad.

narciso

Last night's debate, wasn't as Admiral Ackbar
(It's a Trap) as I expected it to be, besides
the 'obligatory' Jeffress question.

Sue

C-cal,

About the only thing I can say after reading Obi Wan is it damn sure isn't Karl Rove.

Jim Rhoads a/k/a vnjagvet

I particularly liked this Obi Wan observation:

Last night, David Gergen was delighting his CNN bosses by saying the debates were helping Obama. However, decades of systematic research by several noted scientific institutes have established that if Gergen makes an observation about the state of play in American politics, the opposite is always true. I invoke here “Gergen’s Law.”

Pops

We could save a ton of money if we just stop pretending that we actually have a border that we are defending.

What is the point of border check point with border patrtol agents? Just to hassle American kids on their way back from Spring break?

Just get rid of any notion of a border or a Mexican state.

If Americans want to move across the border and build factories, towns etc. let them.

A for heavens sake, stop recognizing their leaders as being heads of a state, because a state by definition has recognbized borders and Mexico doesn't even recognize its own borders. So you carve ouit a couple of new states until you get down to Meicos southern border which is much smaller and I hear those southern Mexicans are sticklers for border enforcement.

DebinNC

I heard an audio snippet of OWSers confronting Boehner at a golf course, demanding to know if he'd be playing with the 1%. I didn't hear his reply, so I assume he ignored them. According to Boehner's Speaker's Blog there are 15 House passed jobs bills rotting over at the Senate which has now passed the 900th day mark without producing a budget. I wish Boehner and every Republican in Congress would trumpet that in every venue possible 24/7 instead of ceding the spotlight to Obama and the OWSers unchallenged. Looking in vain for champions willing to fight the good fight ferociously and unabatedly, but finding none, is soul crushing of the "without hope the people perish" sort.

Danube of Thought

They could act like the adults in the room and say they're not taking part in this absurdly prolonged campaign schedule

But that's up to the candidates, not the party.

DebinNC

Obi-Wan: "It may eventually come down to him [Newt} and Perry, since Romney can’t really move his numbers and last night will eventually lower Mitt’s standing."

I wonder too if Romney can move his numbers. Not with me, he can't.

Mark Steyn is on for Rush right now.

centralcal

Well, well, well . . .

The LA teacher (a black woman) at the OWS protest who blamed the jooz for all the ills has been sh*t canned.

As a day-to-day substitute teacher, Ms. McAllister was an at-will employee. As of today, she is no longer an employee of the LAUSD.

(Another) Barbara

Yes, the campaign season is ridiculously long and the public may indeed become bored silly by all the yammering.

Not me, however. I know so much more about each candidate's views and skills of presentation than I did a couple of months ago. I think the debates give us an enhanced chance of picking the person who can beat Obama, and it's better we learn that now. No matter what we say or hope for here, the general election won't be a cakewalk for the Republican.

It's a benefit for our potential nominee, too, because he's able to sharpen his skills for the big face-offs next year. Whether you love or loathe any individual candidate, you can see nearly all of them improve remarkably as the season progresses (except for Perry, I'm sorry to say, as I once had high hopes for him).

Haven't seen the figures but I doubt whether there's widespread viewership of each debate. Nonetheless, our eventual nominee is getting exposure and name recognition, which is essential amongst the vast mindless muddle, known as independents. That can't be a bad thing, nor the fact that occasional issues emerge that the MSM refuses to cover.

I only wish they'd stop screaming "Liar!" at each other. Oh, what terrific DNC ads those incidents will make.

Jim Rhoads a/k/a vnjagvet

See? That's what happens when the joooz control the schools.

Captain Hate

But that's up to the candidates, not the party.

Then why was it so important that Sarah Palin make a decision before the deadline for putting her name in passed?

Sue

The presidential debates will not look last night's debate. It doesn't matter how you mix it up in the primaries. Think back to John McCain and his townhall debates. I thought he would run circles around Obama because of his experience in debate formats. Didn't happen. The public thought Obama won every one of them. Even Slow Joe won the public perception against Sarah, even though he lied and made shit up. Perception. For the truly slow and those so lazy they appear slow.

Ignatz

--I still want to know: why do these guys leave their weapons behind so often?--

I think the problem is the phrase "left behind" which implies a warm corpse surrounded by three or four still smoking machine guns.
A better term would be "recovered".
Guys are arrested or searched and found to be in possession of these weapons.
Sometimes they are left at crime scenes intentionally. If they can't be traced to a particular criminal they're better off discarding them than carrying them around; they're seen as disposable and, if properly handled, untraceable to themselves. Sometimes they flee the scene in haste or are wounded themselves.
But I believe the majority of recoveries are similar to the recent one where a guy was arrested and when they searched his home found several of the F&F weapons in his hidden arsenal.

narciso

Well Biden and Obama for that matter have the 'Costanza problem' it's not a lie if you believe it. So if you believe Hezbollah was
kicked out of Lebanon, or FDR was giving fireside chats on TV, and theanchor/moderator
doesn't disagree,

Jack is Back!

I am not as pessimistic about the GOP field as a number of you are after last night. I think, whoever comes out of this as the nominee is in a great position to not only win big but to bring in a overwhelmingly supportive Congress. Missing in all this blood letting and internecine warfare (encouraged and administered by Cooper) is that nothing in the economy has changed, the Solyndra deal is still out there, the F&F fiasco and crime is still out there and Obama is still very unpopular and getting more so by backing OWS.

If you go to Gallup (not as right leaning as Raz) you see the "generic" GOP candidate is like 45% to Obama's 39%. Plus like Obi-Wan noted to NRO this kind of debate and exposure is helping the republicans with the independents and not too-political types. Look, we are mostly political junkies, or we wouldn't hang out at this site. There are so many more out there who are not and are hurting - their mortgages, their jobs, their bills, their kids future, etc. They are working their butts off and don't have time to keep up with whats going on in the world of in the USA for that matter. All they know is something is wrong and it needs to be fixed

When they do tune into something like the debate it opens up their eyes and minds. The GOP is the only party getting this exposure. The Dems don't have any debates among themselves except in the Senate and that is real snoozer and only on C-SPAN. So, the indies out there are getting a lot of information on how Obama is screwing up and how a conservative or republican administration would fix it. Plus they like to fight among themselves on policy and prior performance. IOW, there is room for all sorts of ideas even those of independents.

Indies most likely will not be voting in the primaries but they will in the GE and that is where they will remember those GOP debates and the differences they highlighted with Obama and his performance. Big differences.

(Another) Barbara

The public thought Obama won every one of them. Even Slow Joe won the public perception against Sarah, even though he lied and made shit up

That's because the press told us Obama and Biden won, and they repeated that relentlessly. Further, people tend to pick as a debate winner the candidate they favor overall, not the other way round. That's when I first felt that Obama would carry the election too.

If you want to read a particularly interesting and amusing recap of last night's debate, go to Nordlinger's review (LUN) He must have read Jane's, because he's almost that good.

centralcal

(Another) Barbara: The debate ratings so far, not including the recent Bloomberg debate which is not a Nielson client and last night's CNN debate, are as follows:

9/22 FNC 6,107,000
9/12 CNN 3,600,000
9/7 MSNBC 5,411,000
8/11 FNC 5,053,000
6/3 CNN 3,162,000
5/5 FNC 3,258,000


Danube of Thought

"Then why was it so important that Sarah Palin make a decision before the deadline for putting her name in passed?"

Important to whom? And what does that have to do with ability of the candidates--as opposed to the party--to decline to go through with this whole goofy debate schedule?

rse

LUN is especially for Jane but reflects the general concern expressed here over the last several days that the academy and the media are determined to misportray the Tea Party, its constituents, and their motivations.

maryrose

AB and JiB:
I concur with your understanding of the debates and the process. I mean really what else do we expect Gergen to say about it . He's been a dem pol for years. I also discount Brazile and Borger. Frick and Frack repeating dim talking points. My dad always said look for the underlying message.In this case the message is repubs make Obama stronger. Not true as Obama continues to diminish himself.He sides with OWS because he is one of them, a socialist Marxist revolutionary.He's also a clandestine Muslim,McCain was wrong about that when questionned during the campaign.

Danube of Thought

Ccal, are those viewers or households?

Bear in mind that many who don't watch the debates (like me) see plenty of the most newsworthy exchanges--often unflattering--on the news.

MarkO

I don't, for a moment, believe that Sarah was influenced by any deadlines.

As for the show, I don't recall Newt taking a shot at any of the others. He goes after the questioners. It is not debate; it is theatre.

If we had a sympathetic media, these "spontaneous" exchanges might help our cause. As it is, the media uses them to harm the candidates.

And, I see that Romney is now so threatening that MoDo (she who can't understand why no man wants her) has out the long knives of bigotry.

This is, in part, why I was swearing at my flat screen last night and attempting to copyright the word "doom."

Clarice

maryrose, I do not share your belief that Obama is a
"clandestine Moslem". I think he is not of any religion but shares the left's "anti-colonialist" viewpoint, outdated by decades as it is. That viewpoint makes him far more sympathetic to Moslems than is warranted.

narciso

That's a fair view of things, with Ayers, and Wright, the late Derrick Bell, and Ogletree and Roberto De Unger,shaping his worldview how could he not end up that way.

Captain Hate

Important to whom?

Each state's party has a deadline to be on the primary ballot so if you want to be considered a candidate, you have to adhere to the deadline for the earliest state; which the national party seems increasingly unwilling to ride herd over so the date gets earlier and earlier.

http://www.nationalreview.com/campaign-spot/272305/unofficial-deadline-declaring-presidential-bid-november-1

Jim Miller

In answer to Tom's question: No, Tapper didn't have follow-up questions after that "Fast and Furious" reply.

In fact, in a quick skim-through of the transcript, I found only one follow-up question, on Cain's 9-9-9 plan. (Which gave Obama a chance to attack it.)

Disappointing, but Tapper and ABC may have had to promise to be soft in order to get the interview.

JM Hanes

Sue:

"I think [Perry's] probably done."

That's incredibly discouraging, and I was already depressed at how poorly he seems to be doing in the debates. I believe that's where this presidential election, in particular, is going to be decided, even if he survives long enough to win the nomination.

I do suspect he will make a better showing in the primaries than the polling suggests, because Romney is the one who is going to suffer from the enthusiasm gap in the Republican base most likely to turn out. Alas, that will only push Perry over the top, if the contest tightens up. He needs to nationalize his talking points, hire a debate coach, bone up on foreign policy, and fire whoever is doing his ads.

maryrose

I was unimpressed with Perry. His answers were terrible and inarticulate. His attacks meaningless and unproductive. He's ok for Texas but not for president. I also enjoy Ron Paul and many things he says make sense. Newt was very good. Perry wanted to bring Mitt down to his level, unfortunately he got to Mitt. I don't think that will happen again. In 2004 MeCain and the Huckster tag-teamed Mitt. I think it's Cain and Mitt tagging Perry this time. Perry's answer ,notice he would not repudiate the pastor's remarks was weak and showed his true character.

rse

clarice & narciso-

let's not forget Edward Said while he was at Columbia. His book Orientalism was hugely influential in a most pernicious way. BO seems to ape that mindset fully even though it has a limited connection to actual facts.

centralcal

DoT: Housholds or viewers question. I really don't know, will try to look it up. The data comes from TVNewser (Mediabistro) who always post the Nielson ratings (which those were).

Clarice

Agreed narciso and rse. I hink it important to be precise about where he's coming from becaue it's the truth and you cannot afford to lose the argument by claims that are not credible.

Clarice

*Think it important*

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Wilson/Plame