Somebody Call 9-9-9

Per The Hill, Herman Cain's 9-9-9 tax reform is taking fire from left and right.  But let me add a criticism not made here - replacing the payroll tax with a sales tax is a real blow to the elderly, who paid payroll taxes their working lives and will now be hit with the consumption tax. If we were cutting our tax system from a whole cloth then a tax on consumption would make more sense than a tax on work.  However, we are now (and always will be) in mid-stream, as it were, and the switch might seem unfair to certain groups.

On the plus side, obviously some old folks will welcome Cain's proposed elimination of the estate tax.

Comments

[Gmax]

I am not convinced that Obama's Jobs bill even gets a majority. I dont see any Republicans and besides the several Democrat NO votes, there will be several more who have more "compelling" things to do than be captured on the record as voting for this turd bill...

[Sue]

Sue, your boys are looking mighty strong. That's quite a lineup they've put together.

Oh yeah.

We've always had the offense. We've never had the pitching. This year, we got both. Holland will get his mojo back. And Nellie got his back last night. Go Rangers.

[Extraneus]

People will be wishing she'd run before it's all over.

Which could happen before the filing deadlines.

[Captain Hate]

Fox News, really when have they been on her side, and National Review, please, I still recall when they asked her 'to leave the room' during the death panels debate, then they ran a cover on the topic

NR has some creeps who are indistinguishable from Frum. It's why I've read the Weekly Standard instead; although The Long View was consistently funny.

[Rob Crawford]

I appealed to you for weeks to stop with threatening his employment and you just ratcheted it up.

No one threatened his employment but himself, Sara.

[Ranger]

Via Instapundit this morning:

“Greece’s bondholders may have to settle for a cut of more than 60 percent in what Athens owes them, the head of the eurozone’s finance ministers has said, the first open admission that such a drastic move is being considered.”

I really don't see how either the Euro or the EU survives that.

[DebinNC]

WBTV/Charotte:
"On Sunday, Occupy Charlotte protestors clearly expected to carry their momentum into Monday. ...Organizers said they were making plans to march on City Council then and at Duke Energy on Tuesday....But only a handful of people showed up."

[Janet]

I'd like them start at zero and decide which programs and operations are vital and which can and should be scrapped or reduced.

Me too. That is kinda what I was thinking with my "How much money do the Feds. need?" question.
The Fed govt. will never downsize if they keep getting so much money. They grow into the amount of money they get....so if our economy recovers they will get more tax dollars & just start growing again.
It is like we need a written document that spells out the few things that the Fed. govt. has any business addressing...oh yeah, we've got the Constitution.

Also, the politicians need to go home. Senator & Representative should be a part time job. They & their staff are just 24/7 "new idea" machines that continuously think up crap for us to do & obey.

[Rob Crawford]

Y'know, DoT, I'm trying to get across that you and several other people start being pricks to Ben etc right when he starts trying to be reasonable.

He's never reasonable. It's a pose, an act, a mask he puts on to fool the easily fooled, like you, Charlie.

I've seen him do this other places, repeatedly. He's the same sociopath he has always been.

[Rob Crawford]

You, Rob, and MarkO make discussion nearly impossible. Your constant sniping and whining against Ben/Dana and others you don't agree with turns my stomach

Once more, for the terminally slow:

I. Have. Nearly. Ten. Years. Experience. With. This. Troll.

I don't give a rip if it turns your stomach that I will not give the benefit of the doubt to someone who has repeatedly abused any benefit of the doubt he's given.

[Janet]

An undate on the wedding at Walter Reed -

"I want to take this opportunity to thank all of you for your donations, contributions and prayers for this wedding. The wedding took place this past Saturday at Walter Reed National Military Medical Center in Bethesda. It was an absolutely beautiful day for it. Even with the hiccups that were encountered, the group worked together to overcome them and the couple was none the wiser. The couple and hospital staff were so appreciative of our support for this special occasion."
Good stuff!

[squaredance]

Instituting a VAT or a Federal Sales Tax without constitutionally eliminating FED income tax is just more kick the can--it amounts to inadvertent trojan horse.

Once it gets in, sooner or later it will just be an additional tax burden (though obviously Cain is not trying to pull a fast one). Just Look at the EU if you want to see the damage this can cause.

The key is to starve the Nomenkaltura, reduce government and reduce regulation and taxation. This means that we must structurally reduce the government's power to regulate and tax. It most certainly does not mean that we need to give it yet more taxation powers.

The Candidates need to get up front about this and stop speaking in euphemisms. The Left have gone full bore and are pitching their propaganda at the highest notes, and the tune is quite cleverly written. They are now driving the national debate away from the real issues and making it almost impossible to take a principled conservative stand. They are winning the propaganda battle at this point via the OWS counter offensive. Nowhere in all of these "discussions: is the rude fact that the CRA, Fannie and Freddy, and the regulated pile of derivatives created to fund this was created by the (mostly) Democrat Nomenklatura. This has bee effectively buried now.

The accepted narrative now taking shape--and filling the "national mind"--is that the "evil banksters" have "captured" politicians and that this is this is a structural feature of "capitalism". Of course, the reality is just the opposite: This is the outcome of decades of soft socialism (which is really what "crony capitalism" is). The pltcal class has captured the banksters. They are winning!!! Get clear on it: THEY ARE CONTROLLING THE DEBATE AND HAVE EXCLUDED THE REAL CULPRITS AND THE REAL ISSUES.

The TP, the GOP and every Patriot need to get out and say what the truth is. We have to steer the narrative back to the truth.

What is that truth> The Left through their control of the Democrat Party is staging a Communist coup. If we are to restore the country they must be defended, removed from power ad structural safeguards must be put place to keep them out of power forever..

Now is not the time to descend into wonk-speak. State the issues and then place on the table a variety of options to be considered once the tide has turned. Otherwise, they are playing int their hands

The Dems have seized the initiative now for the election cycle, The GOP needs to get it back. This has to be done in broad strokes at this stage.

Thei can start by calling the OWS groups for what they are: Crypto/pseudo/proto Red Guards ad "Chavez circles" manipulated by communist front groups.

Now is the time to stand up. Right now.

[pagar]

Janet, I would not be at all surprised to read some day that Barack Obama feels that his greatest achievement was to eradicate Christianity from the face of the earth.

[Jim Ryan]

Panic! Do something!

[Janet]

from Drudge -

'She probably ate more than any other guest I've ever had on the show -- she kept eating even during commercials'...

[Sue]

Janet,

LOL. Is that a "bless her heart" compliment?

[squaredance]

If we are to restore the country they must be defUnded,

[Janet]

eradicate Christianity from the face of the earth.

That won't happen. An eternal perspective helps me muscle through the injustices now. All through history God has always kept a remnant.....so even if/when things get really bad, we will be the remnant. It is actually a privilege!

[Dan]

our purpose to create))))

[centralcal]

I am having a terrible time getting JOM to open today. Is anyone else?

(All other websites open instantly.)

[Captain Hate]

No cc; JOM is working fine for me.

[matt]

it's probably her psychological response to her husband's popularity.

[kave]

cc,
I had some trouble about an hour ago, but it appears to be okay now.

[Sue]

c-cal,

Yes, I am experiencing the same thing here. And every other reload, people's names appear where the avatar was earlier.

[Extraneus]

They & their staff are just 24/7 "new idea" machines that continuously think up crap for us to do & obey.

Really?

Obama Jobs Council Calls for Sweeping Changes in Federal Policies

The council, headed by GE Chairman and CEO Jeffrey Immelt, will release its 50-page report Tuesday during a meeting with Obama in Pittsburgh. The Associated Press obtained a copy of the report Monday night.

Topping the council's list is a plea for improvements in the nation's network of roads and bridges, for airport upgrades and modernized ports, and for updated electric grids, water and wastewater systems.

"If Washington can agree on anything, it should be this -- and it should be now," the report states.

Others on the 27-member council include AFL-CIO President Richard Trumka, AOL co-founder Steve Case and Facebook chief operating officer Sheryl Sandberg.

The report notes that 1 million construction workers are unemployed and points to the declining state of U.S. infrastructure. It also says that China now has six of the world's top 10 seaports and that the United States can't claim a single one of the other four.

Every crisis is an opportunity to these leeches.

[Captain Hate]

Cain must have put sand in Plouffe and Axelrod's thongs since they've dispatched Cornell West to say garbage about him on Tavis Smiley's Pravda minstrel show that nobody watches. And washed up calypso singers that claim to speak for the black community.

[Jim Ryan]

Long-term infrastructure spending as stimulus won't save us from the depression but it will mean that for a banana republic we'll have very nice bridges that we will still owe on.

[pagar]

http://weaselzippers.us/2011/10/11/report-three-romney-advisers-met-a-dozen-times-in-2009-with-senior-obama-aides-to-help-craft-obamacare/

Meanwhile, there are Americans promoting him to be president after the MSM has taken Sarah Palin out of the race.

[Oh come all ye searchbots and gather the news.]

I'm impressed, Rob. I only go back about 5 or 6 years. Maybe I should review my first impressions. I might find Peter's first, too.
===================

[Janet]

Yes, I am experiencing the same thing here. And every other reload, people's names appear where the avatar was earlier.

Same here.

[DrJ]

No trouble loading JOM here on the left coast.

[Captain Hate]

Meanwhile, there are Americans promoting him to be president after the MSM has taken Sarah Palin out of the race.

Mittens is a strictly "anybody but Obama" candidate. He will be a disaster for conservatives. McCain v2.0.

[Chubby]

((I am certain that it wouldn't, and in any event I would never give up the eminently enjoyable bloodsport of the cricket bat.))

after hearing the protestors calling themselves the "99" I looked up "99" on Wikipedia.

((In cricket, it is considered unlucky if you reach 99 due to most batsmen getting out and not making the century.))

good metaphor :)

there are some other quite interesting facts about "99"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/99_(number)

[narciso]

Of course it would have to be Jonathan Gruber, the subject of at least one thread here, what Hans wasn't available,

[Ignatz]

--I appealed to you for weeks to stop with threatening his employment and you just ratcheted it up.--

Sara,
How could DoT have threatened his employment when he has steadfastly sworn that he is not the person DoT thinks he is?
That he is Dana Gilbert Ward is indisputable and it was only that knowledge and the concomitant discomfort that knowledge entailed for him which restrained his misbehavior.
Or do you honestly think it only a coincidence that he stopped the sock puppeting, egregious insults and crazy behavior at precisely the time he was outed?
It is the very "threats" and people you complain the most about who have forced him into the semi respectable behavior you are always crediting him with.

As to Ben's and your defense of his incessant C&Ping, the objection is not that he links stories, as you noted you and others often do, including me. Nobody that I know of objects to links and a link with a short explanation of the subject is preferred by me to just a link. But linking and C&Ping are not the same. He links and then uses up a foot of column space with most of what the link had to say. He's anduril without the "bold". He can point people to a viewpoint or "context" he thinks is useful and they can choose to go read it if they want. That's just common courtesy. He does not need to force people to either scroll on by or narcisolate numerous, long quotations when he has already provided the link. To do so, especially after he has been asked to stop repeatedly, seems contradictory to all the affirmation you heap upon him.

[Porchlight]

Paula Deen once had Jimmuh Carter on her show and was visibly thrilled about it. I'm sure she didn't mean to insult the First Lady. Which makes it all the more delicious.

[PD]

c-cal, I've had problems, too.

[Captain Hate]

Don't know much ge-o-gra-phy: http://newsbusters.org/blogs/brent-baker/2011/10/11/diane-sawyer-claims-wall-street-protests-have-spread-more-thousand-coun

[centralcal]

Thanks all! I rebooted my computer and my WiFi, so I hope it fixed my problem. Off to work now, so won't be able to really test it out :)

[Chubby]

((Oh come all ye searchbots and gather the news...))

:)

... the Times' is not a-changin' ...

[Clarice]

Most of the avatars are being replaced by names--those from Dr J and Iggy are not--seems to be an east/west divide here.

[Extraneus]

Seems like it just doesn't want to refresh.

This link will probably work fine for now.

(Ctrl-End gets to the bottom of the page without scrolling.)

[Clarice]

It's now working again.

[Porchlight]

I'm seeing the avatar problem now, too (in TX).

[Danube of Thought]

Minus 19 at Raz today.

[Sorrier bout dat.]

I've a lot of sympathy for Sara, a woman with a big heart. Dana knows better; lacks the will to be better.
==============

[Jane]

I'd like them start at zero and decide which programs and operations are vital and which can and should be scrapped or reduced.

Cain is a take-over guy, and when you take over a failing company you cut cut cut. As a non-pol he will not be immersed in all the favoritism going on everywhere so I think he is much more likely to start at zero.

I dunno about the rest of of you but Cain's talk about hard work instead of whining warms to cockles of my heart. I assume everyone here grew up that way too - and it would never have occurred to any of us to whine.

Tonite will be very interesting.

[Porchlight]

Oops, spoke too soon. All fine here now as well.

[Janet]

At OWS chanting "You can have sex with animals or whatever".

[Hard dreams gonna pounce.]

Cats are divine, dontcha know?
==============

[Neo]

Treasury’s sunny spin aside, the program [Small Business Jobs Act of 2010] has largely flopped. It expired at the end of September having disbursed not $30 billion, or $15 billion, or even $5 billion. The SBLF is returning $26 billion to the government’s coffers. According to the Treasury Department, just 933 out of the country’s 7,700 or so community banks applied to the program. They requested just $12 billion in loans. And one-third of that sum got approved.

[Jim Ryan]

There are people of excellent character. There are those of the middling sort who need prodding which sometimes works. And then there are those of vicious character. Of these, "Let go and let God." Only God can help them. You have to discern this latter sort or you end up banging your head against a steel wall, getting stuck to tar babies and wasting a lot of your time with basket cases. Do not require them to do right. Just dump them.

Sorry to lecture, but I've just been figuring this out for myself recently.

[DebinNC]

Occupy Wall Street Protesters Can Stay in Zuccotti Park Indefinitely says Mayor Bloomberg. Since Zuccotti Park isn't city property and the owners have been quoted as aghast at the sanitary conditions there, how can Bloomberg say that?

[Janet]

Really good pictures & short videos of OWS-NY at Urban Infidel

Zucotti Park in better days.

[Jim Ryan]

As long as they're not eating trans-fats and they're having sex with animals, it's okay with Bloomberg.

[Clarice]

More mulcting of us by Pelosi and friends under the guise of solar energy pimping.
http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=46761

[henry]

Deb, an earlier post noted that the Park owners got a "grant" right before allowing the protestors in. It would be funny if Bloomberg declared the Park a "blight" and Kelo'd it.

[DebinNC]

You can listen to Herman Cain
with Neil Boortz now.

[matt]

met with a couple of our local Congressmen on Saturday. The talk in DC is about a Romney - Rubio ticket.

Duke & Duke don't feel that Cain can gain enough traction and that the social conservatives are polarizing.

Then, when you have the Prop 8 and DADT victories translating almost instantly into transgender and transsexual rights and bestiality, I think perhaps a bit of social conservatism is in order.

The current race is like dropping a bunch of hungry rats in a bag and having them feed on each other. It doesn't help move forward the main chance of unseating a deeply unpopular president.

In the meantime, the party of the id continues to spin farther and farther out of control. I don't know what the sense in the country is right now.

The unions and Dems are doubling down on class warfare to the point where it may become violent.My guess is that we're two steps away.

What next? We seriously have to get our house in order.

In the meantime, it turns out that Congressman George Miller has been pushing tax breaks for Sunpower, one of the solar companies that works, and who make all of their product in the Philippines and Malaysia, along with his son the lobbyist.

The corruption in Washington stinks to heaven.LUN

[macphisto]

I have to say that i agree with Cecil Turner regarding Cain. i fail to see what's suddenly made Cain into an impressive candidate rather than the faintly ridiculous also-ran he was nine months ago.

[Janet]

Here is that SunPower link - Twice as Bad as Solyndra

a picture -

vs a natural gas well -

When they are drilling it is messy, but the final footprint is not near as ugly as those huge solar fields or windfarms.

[DebinNC]

"All of them are gonna try to attack me, because of this "radical" 9-9-9 plan"..."I can explain it, defend it, and all of the criticism is based on current tax code assumptions." ...."I'm not going to be sucked into that discussion [on no-Muslim religious test for appointees]."...'Everyone will get to ask one question of one other candidate, and my question will be directed at Gov. Romney"...and "You'll looove my question" followed by hearty laugh.

[caro]

Interesting poll you can vote in at NRO.

If forced to choose between Romney or Perry, you’d take:

Perry ahead at 54% in the bastion of establishment politics.

Didn't the Huckster and McCain team up to beat Romney last time? It looks like Romney and Cain are teaming up to knock Perry out early.

[Danube of Thought]

You probably thought you knew how big a scumbag Anthony Weiner is. You were wrong.

[Porchlight]

Good eye, caro.

[Clarice]

Dear Mayor Bloomberg,
As a concerned citizen I have to tell you that they are smoking, eating salt and transfats in Zuccotti Park.

A taxpayer who is denied those rights by your fiat.

[Thomas Collins]

See LUN for a photograph indicating who is enabling the evil corporations.

[Stephen M. St. Onge]

I agree with Ranger. Those retired paid far less in Socialist Insecurity tax and Medicare tax than they collect in benefits, while voting for big govt. most of their lives. They deserve to help pay for the mess they helped make.

[pagar]

"i fail to see what's suddenly made Cain into an impressive candidate rather than the faintly ridiculous also-ran he was nine months ago."

I can't find the post from Cecil Turner to refresh my memory. I fail to understand how a man who has accomplished what Herman Cain has can be called a "faintly ridiculous also ran" while the White House is occupied by a person who has never ran a lemonade stand. Meanwhile, we apparently have Obama lite being groomed as a alternate offered by the Republicans.

[Benjamin Franklin]

Just a few thoughts.

For some time now I have been engaged in what I call 'The Experiment'.

I have used many pseudonyms over the years. First, it was a clever device I saw used by Kim, wherein a final point could be made on the 'posted by' bar.

Then it turned into a disruptive fiat, which I must say, I enjoyed for a time. But it was not really accomplishing anything. when Hit and Run made a cryptic comment one day, I decided to try something different.

You see, there are about 2-3000 people who do not comment here (sitemeter) Is it because of me? Or is it because they fear the lashback against deviant behavior, like having another opinion?
They can see the pecking order. The Alphas like to control their environment, but sometimes it is to the detriment of others

There is WAY too much acrimony in our political dialogue.

Back to the experiment...My efforts, of late, have been to survey the possibility that taking the first step toward building some makeshift bridge of communication, without sacrificing my own idea of self, would produce some fruit. I believe it has.

Yes, I still like being a contrarian. But it is more accurate to call me
an equalizer. I like being the Antagonist with my more liberal acquaintances and friends, not because I am masochistic, but because I believe the human mind benefits from such exercises.

In that sense, I could be called 'Professor'. It is not accurate to use that term on me in the literal sense.

[Sue]

I go to lots of sites and never read the comments sections. Or post. I suspect there are many who come here to read dear leader and nothing else.

[Danube of Thought]

BF, your are so self-centered as to be a parody.

[Jack is Back!]

What I want to know is who comes here to read Professor Cut & Paste?

[Jane]

The equalizer

How about "The Joke".

[Jack is Back!]

narciso,

Saw this and thought immediately of you:)

[caro]

Thanks,Porch.

And Rush just confirmed it!

[pagar]

What did Rush confirm?

[Benjamin Franklin]

"BF, your are so self-centered as to be a parody.'

This, from the guy who made me the center of attention.

[Ranger]

My efforts, of late, have been to survey the possibility that taking the first step toward building some makeshift bridge of communication, without sacrificing my own idea of self, would produce some fruit. I believe it has.

You know, I might buy that if you actually engaged in dircet communication yourself, or if what you posted was actually responsive to what other people said.

For example, not too long ago someone pointed out that while Bush 43 was president the average growth rate was around 3% and the average unemployment rate was around 5%. Your response was not to argue the facts, but to quote the original post and then cut and paste a fact free opinoin rant from a left wing writer.

When I asked you directly why the Tea Party's demand for honest and efficient government was too much for you to swallow, your only answer a statement that if your point wasn't clear enough, it never would be. We still don't know, in your own words, why you can't get on board with honest and efficient government as a first step towards a more equitable society.

[centralcal]

Rush just said that Chris Christie will be at Dartmouth debate to endorse Romney.

[Benjamin Franklin]

Ranger. You may have noticed I ceased responding to you. That's because you forge 'trap' questions that are designed more as 'gotcha' than it is, honest inquiry. Try another tac....

[centralcal]

Beginning to really, really dislike Romney and the Republican "elites."

[Ranger]

Ranger. You may have noticed I ceased responding to you. That's because you forge 'trap' questions that are designed more as 'gotcha' than it is, honest inquiry. Try another tac....

Posted by: Benjamin Franklin | October 11, 2011 at 01:08 PM

And what, exactly was the "trap" of that question?

You don't agree with the premise that most in the Tea Party movement see the government as corrupt and wasteful?

[Benjamin Franklin]

"You don't agree with the premise that most in the Tea Party movement see the government as corrupt and wasteful?"

That's the old tac.....

[Ranger]

Well Ben, its a simple yes or no answer. If you don't agree with that premise, then dispute is and provide evidence.

[Cecil Turner]

Y'know, I really do wonder if we've got the ID right. How many Yale-educated professors can't spell "tack"? (Or consistently get "its" right, even?)

At any rate, after this trolled-up thread (burned through the narcisolator no less), I'm less than compelled by any "give the guy a chance" arguments. Those who wish to can, of course, but might recognize it makes the narcisolator less effective.

[Ranger]

I see that Ben's idea of "communication" is: "I'll keep communicating until the argument turns against me, then I'll ignore you."

[boris]

"the guy who made me the center of attention"

DoT did not make you a big game troll, you did that yourself. He just nailed your head to the wall.

[fdcol63]

So, let me get this straight:

The GOP elites want to capitalize on the anti-Obama sentiment that was stirred up by the Tea Party's anger over ObamaCare by .... running the guy whose state model was the blueprint for ObamaCare?

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/44854320/ns/politics-decision_2012/#.TpRZHOvgKRs

And some say liberals suffer from cognitive dissonance?

[Danube of Thought]

Google "Semanti*cleo" (just one of Dana Ward's pseudonyms) and you get 220 hits going back a number of years.

[SWarren]

DebinNC,
Thanks for the heads up on Boortz with Herman Cain.

Up here in Michigan we get him on tape delay from noon til 3 so I skipped Rush today and listened to Boortz. He sure is high on Cain.

I agree with him that Herman would destroy Obama in a debate, especially after he played the clip of Cain taking on Bill Clinton back in '94. Clinton trying to be the math whiz, spouting out numbers and Cain: "no,no,no, that's not the way it works!"

I really love Cain and believe he could run circles around Obama [sans teleprompter] in a one-on-one.

He said his question would be directed to Romney in tonight's debate.

[Sara (Pal2Pal)]

I must have missed that.

Try reading some of the things he posts.

Jane: Get off your high horse. You got your dander up a few months ago when he said something that if anyone else had said, you would have laughed about. My schtick is fairness, Jane, I would think as a lawyer that should be important to you. My schtick is reading every post, not protecting my delicate sensibilities with the narcisolator or making negative comments about posts I admit I haven't read and would never read. But, then I'm not afraid of opposing views intruding on my world view.

[Sara (Pal2Pal)]

No one threatened his employment but himself, Sara.

Says the guy who will knock the guy even when he hasn't posted a word in a thread.

You should try to read what DOT writes/has written without so much bias.

[glasater]

I like Herman Cain a lot. But -- he is never going to get the big money from the pacs.
And it appears Romney's got that money sewn up. Too bad...

[JM Hanes]

jimmyk:

"what takes up a disproportionate share of the space is not his posts..... but all the meta discussion.

Precisely. The folks who snarl at him, the folks who defend him, and, alas, even the ever fruitless efforts to get him to put actual skin in the game, destroy these threads even more effectively than his cutting and pasting.

You were understandably loath to comment yourself, but I suspect your sentiments are shared by almost everyone with a working narcisolator, by lurkers and by potential lurkers.

[Benjamin Franklin]

Fuck the Jews.

And Republicans.

[Benjamin Franklin]

Keep defending me, though, Sara, and I'll keep making you feel special in our private correspondence.

These others will never mean to me what you mean to me, baby. And I don't care if your twat is even more old and wrinkled than Clarice's.

[Gmax]

Just curious Sara, was Bitch the look you were going for? Does it go with your shoes and purse or something? Cuz that is what is coming through to my eyes anyway. Telling a long time poster to get off their high horse is rich from a person who regularly uses a ladder for their rides around here.