Somebody Call 9-9-9

Per The Hill, Herman Cain's 9-9-9 tax reform is taking fire from left and right.  But let me add a criticism not made here - replacing the payroll tax with a sales tax is a real blow to the elderly, who paid payroll taxes their working lives and will now be hit with the consumption tax. If we were cutting our tax system from a whole cloth then a tax on consumption would make more sense than a tax on work.  However, we are now (and always will be) in mid-stream, as it were, and the switch might seem unfair to certain groups.

On the plus side, obviously some old folks will welcome Cain's proposed elimination of the estate tax.

Comments

[Ignatz]

--Per The Hill, Herman Cain's 9-9-9 tax reform is taking fire from left and right.--

Then it can't be all bad.

[Clarice]

Gallup shocker:

Cain Surges, Nearly Ties Romney for Lead in GOP Preferences
Romney and Cain closely matched near 20%, with Perry at 15%
by Lydia Saad
PRINCETON, NJ -- Republicans' support for Herman Cain has surged to 18%, their support for Rick Perry has sagged to 15%, and their support for Mitt Romney remains relatively stable at 20%. However, Romney's support is matched by the 20% of Republicans who are unsure which candidate they will back for the Republican nomination in 2012.

[Ignatz]

Expect to see signs at OWS non-violently threatening the life of the Wapo's Jackson Diehl as he says "hey maybe that Iraq war thing worked a little better than this Arab Spring thing."
They both stink IMO but YMMV.

[DebinNC]

I can't imagine Congress would pass anything as bold as 9-9-9, but it certainly differentiates Cain from the others as someone willing to do whatever it takes to get the economy moving again. No one can say Cain's nibbling around the edges. As radio host the last several years, his big thing..the thing he harps on over and over..is ending the uncertainty. He always pronounces it UN-Cer-Tain-Ty with the slighest pause after each emphatic syllable. Unlike the other choices, I trust Herman Cain.

[Chubby]

I think if the tax system were changed the change would have to include, where necessary, temporary programs to smooth the transition and make it just.

[Extraneus]

Here's the difference. When they chant Stand with Gibson!, they all say it in unison.

Say it with me!

[Benjamin Franklin]

9% VAT, right? That means Californians will pay close to 18% sales tax in addition to State and Federal Income Tax.

He's a Populist with a class-warfare fist.

[Extraneus]

I trust Herman Cain.

That's what I'm looking for. I still trust Perry, too, but tomorrow's debate might be his last stand. If he tanks -- and I don't mean in the MSM who'll pan his performance no matter what, since they're scared of him -- Cain will deservedly gain. Unfortunately for them, they're scared of Cain, too, or O'Donnell would have propped him up instead of attacking his blackness. If he could get 25% of the black vote, while remaining a trustworthy conservative, Cain will be hard to beat, and the Dems probably know that better than we do.

[Ignatz]

It's not a VAT, it's a sales tax.
It has similar exemptions to state sales taxes. They won't be paying FICA or dividend or cap gains taxes and there is an exemption for low earners from the income tax.
Right now I pay almost 9% sales tax in CA to get a bad government destroying my state.
Paying another 9% to get rid of the mess of a tax system we now have would be money much better spent.

[centralcal]

Ignatz: One of the complaints, (or perhaps fears is a better word), that I have heard regarding Cain's 9-9-9 plan, is that succeeding Presidents and/or Congresses could raise parts or all of it to just about any amount they wanted to.

[Benjamin Franklin]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Value-added_tax

"A value-added tax (VAT) is a form of consumption tax. From the perspective of the buyer, it is a tax on the purchase price."

Jeebus. A tax, by any other name, will smell the same. The difference here is who is most impacted in terms of percentage of income. Hence, the ugly head of 'class warfare' is explicit in it's easily understood economics.

[Janet]

Neo posted this on the Sunday thread -

Another example of "Stickin' it to the Man"

Posted by: Neo | October 10, 2011 at 06:02 PM

Point #1 at the Ben & Jerry's link -
The inequity that exists between classes in our country is simply immoral.

How much money do their Board of Directors have?...they should give their money away.

Point #4 - Corporations are permitted to spend unlimited resources to influence elections while stockpiling a trillion dollars rather than hiring people.

Ben & Jerry's should hire more people, even if they don't need them, they should hire them & pay them "lots". I will personally decide what "lots" is for them.

Ben & Jerry's IS "the Man".

[Benjamin Franklin]

I would work for Ben & Jerry's for ice cream.

[Threadkiller]

From your link, Ben.

"A VAT is like a sales tax in that ultimately only the end consumer is taxed. It differs from the sales tax in that, with the latter, the tax is collected and remitted to the government only once, at the point of purchase by the end consumer. With the VAT, collections, remittances to the government, and credits for taxes already paid occur each time a business in the supply chain purchases products."

The distinction is important.

[narciso]

This was not 'unexpected', but dissappointing
nonetheless,

http://www.bostonherald.com/news/regional/view.bg?articleid=1372233

[Benjamin Franklin]

It's a distinction, without a fundamental difference to the consumer.

[Danube of Thought]

"That means Californians will pay close to 18% sales tax in addition to State and Federal Income Tax."

For that we can thank the hopelessly and permanently loony California legislature.

[Rob Crawford]

For that we can thank the hopelessly and permanently loony California legislature.

Bought-and-paid-for by the state's unions.

Amazing how cheap it is to buy those "idealists".

[Extraneus]

Is there a good summary of the 9-9-9 plan somewhere? Google doesn't seem to answer that, since there are more links to critics than to supporters, and everyone has a biased opinion.

From what I could understand, 9-9-9 simply means 9% income tax, 9% corporate tax and 9% national sales tax.

It does away with the payroll tax, so low-income people hit with the 9% income tax are offset by a 0% payroll tax, which they'd otherwise be paying anyway, assuming they have income. The 9% corporate tax is reduced from the current 35% rate, but there's something about "investments" and "empowerment zones" that could reduce that, and the national sales tax is a new tax.

He says it's revenue neutral, but I couldn't care less about that. (I'd prefer it if the government's take was cut by 50% or more, and I think the Founders would cringe at the thought that the Federal government has a right to know how much citizens earn.)

Anyone know of a fair summary of this idea?

[Jane]

One of the complaints, (or perhaps fears is a better word), that I have heard regarding Cain's 9-9-9 plan, is that succeeding Presidents and/or Congresses could raise parts or all of it to just about any amount they wanted to.

He proposes a 2/3rds vote to raise it. Perhaps a constitutional amendment would be better.

[Benjamin Franklin]

"Bought-and-paid-for by the state's unions."

Especially when they oppose legislation de-criminalizing consumer use of marijuana because it keeps the overtime rolling in...

http://www.hoboes.com/Mimsy/Editorial/proposition-75/

"For a real-world example of this vicious cycle, look at the prison guard’s union and their stand on marijuana reform. Marijuana laws are their bread and butter, so they spend millions lobbying against relaxing or removing laws against marijuana. They lobby against sentencing reform. Drug users are easy prisoners compared to rapists and murderers. In Drug Policy And California’s Prison Population, the San Diego Union Tribune writes:

Those who argue that it is sensible policy to treat drug users the same way you treat the pathologically violent have clearly prevailed. Today there are 20,862 inmates, approximately the same as the total prison population two decades ago, serving prison sentence solely for drug possession. These are people who are cycled through the system and then placed back on the street without access to treatment or support. Attempts to obtain treatment are often met with waiting lists that are months long. In the meantime, they remain on the streets with few prospects and little hope. Under these conditions, it is not long before many fall back into self destructive drug use and return to prison.

Although such a system seems counter to public safety interests, there are powerful political forces at work in California that promote and sustain the present system. Chief among these forces is the prison guard’s union. Because they benefit from prisons teeming with inmates, the guards lavish campaign contributions on political candidates. The influence that the prisons guard’s campaign contributions buys allows them to pressure elected officials to enact sentencing laws that keep inmates in prison longer, thus expanding the overall pool of prisoners and creating a “need” for more prisons. The guards union blatantly uses its political influence to promote the funding of more prisons."

[Rob Crawford]

GFY, Dana. No one cares what talking points you're cutting and pasting today.

[Ranger]

replacing the payroll tax with a sales tax is a real blow to the elderly, who paid payroll taxes their working lives and will now be hit with the consumption tax.

I wouldn't call this a "blow" as much as a re-adjustment. A key part of how you fix this entitlement mess is that you have to somehow recoup at least part of the "excess benifits"* that people are now recieving. This is a way to do that without cutting benifits for those currently recieving them.

* Most people who are getting payments will get much more in benifits than were planned for when their payroll taxes were being collected.

[(Another) Barbara]

I've been traveling and computerless for the past few weeks and thus don't know whether Kevin Williamson's (NRO) piece on 9-9-9 has already been discussed here. Williamson pretty well eviscerates its worth in the article and, in turn, is eviscerated by the 250 or so readers who commented. If you haven't seen the article you may find it interesting (as well as the remarks that follow it).LUN

[First you have to get their attention.]

9X9X9 upside the head.
=========

[Ignatz]

--It's a distinction, without a fundamental difference to the consumer.--

It's a distinction with a gigantic difference to the consumer. A VAT is hidden from view and is, like the corporate income tax, an indirect tax on consumers which is precisely why the Euroweenines love it so; they can jack it up and twist it around and the consumer is none the wiser. With a sales tax it's sitting right there on every receipt it applies to.

--Ignatz: One of the complaints, (or perhaps fears is a better word), that I have heard regarding Cain's 9-9-9 plan, is that succeeding Presidents and/or Congresses could raise parts or all of it to just about any amount they wanted to.--

I keep hearing that argument and find it quite odd for a country that has suffered 90% income tax rates and estate tax rates over 50% and capital gains and dividend rates double or more what they are now. Any tax can be raised to just about any amount they want to. The more balkanized and specialized the tax code the more vulnerable it is to tinkering and stealth raises.
I have just the opposite view; the widest possible tax base that effects the most people is the least likely one to be raised because everyone is going to howl, which I suspect is why the left is so concerned about it.

[Ranger]

I have just the opposite view; the widest possible tax base that effects the most people is the least likely one to be raised because everyone is going to howl, which I suspect is why the left is so concerned about it.

Posted by: Ignatz | October 10, 2011 at 08:00 PM

Yes, exactly. This is why the left fought so hard against a true payroll tax holiday as part of the stimulus. They knew once people understood how much was being taken out of their check, they would never be able to go back to the full FICA tax levels.

[Ignatz]

--He proposes a 2/3rds vote to raise it. Perhaps a constitutional amendment would be better.--

I'm pretty sure the two thirds deal is not constitutional and would require an amendment.
But again, we don't have any taxes now that need a 2/3 majority now, so how is 9-9-9 any worse? It's much better IMO because they won't be able to play poor vs middle class vs rich vs business vs consumer vs young vs old, etc.
I really don't get the argument.

[Benjamin Franklin]

"GFY, Dana...."

Must've hit a nerve. Sorry, Robbie.

[Jack is Back!]

Regarding the 999 plan and the use of a national VAT: what do you think the embedded taxes are now in, lets say a box of Cheerios or a new Merc? Do you think they are equal to or more or less than 27%. That is the question you need to ask and answer. Forget State sales taxes and income taxes they are beside the point since no one is in any position politically nationally to eliminate them. Stick with federal taxes.

Embedded taxes in a box of Cheerios. Think about it, Professor, think, don't assume. Think!

[Janet]

How much money does the Fed. govt. need? All these plans seem like ideas for just getting lots of money to the Feds...for what? What is the target? Do they ever say? Is it ever enough?

[DrJ]

Here's the right link from A(B) -- I think:

http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/278668/nein-nein-nein-kevin-d-williamson

[Rick Ballard]

"How much money does the Fed. govt. need?"

Most years it's about 107% of last year. Right now it's a little higher.

[narciso]

I found that piece, rather snarky, in many respects, if he had really challenged the idea
that the plan, would raise the requisite revenue, it would have been more useful.

[Benjamin Franklin]

Some economists say we are already 'double-dipping....

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/ezra-klein/post/wonkbook-the-number-that-could-decide-the-election/2011/10/10/gIQAiZYpZL_blog.html?hpid=z2

"Between June 2009, when the recession officially ended, and June 2011, inflation-adjusted median household income fell 6.7 percent, to $49,909," writes Pear. And if you add in the direct hit from the recession, incomes have dropped almost 10 percent. It's the worst blow to incomes in decades."

[Ranger]

inflation-adjusted median household income fell 6.7 percent, to $49,909

Government employee and tenured faculty income were uneffected.

[Benjamin Franklin]

Beware, the White Shirts, Occupiers.....

http://www.counterpunch.org/

"If you’re a Wall Street behemoth, there are endless opportunities to privatize profits and socialize losses beyond collecting trillions of dollars in bailouts from taxpayers. One of the ingenious methods that has remained below the public’s radar was started by the Rudy Giuliani administration in New York City in 1998. It’s called the Paid Detail Unit and it allows the New York Stock. Exchange and Wall Street corporations, including those repeatedly charged with crimes, to order up a flank of New York’s finest with the ease of dialing the deli for a pastrami on rye.

The corporations pay an average of $37 an hour (no medical, no pension benefit, no overtime pay) for a member of the NYPD, with gun, handcuffs and the ability to arrest. The officer is indemnified by the taxpayer, not the corporation.

New York City gets a 10 percent administrative fee on top of the $37 per hour paid to the police. The City’s 2011 budget called for $1,184,000 in Paid Detail fees, meaning private corporations were paying wages of $11.8 million to police participating in the Paid Detail Unit. The program has more than doubled in revenue to the city since 2002."

[Cecil Turner]

It's too big a step, too distasteful to the left, and too easily demagogued. It can't pass. I find it a disqualifier for Cain (who is only marginally qualified for the office anyway).

I'd hoped we learned our lesson in '08 about electing the orator. If not, I predict this will end badly.

[Benjamin Franklin]

Whouda thunk RoboCop had any prescience?

'Privatization' is our future. Dig it.

[Ranger]

It's too big a step, too distasteful to the left, and too easily demagogued.

But it is real change.

[Ranger]

Whouda thunk RoboCop had any prescience?

'Privatization' is our future. Dig it.

Posted by: Benjamin Franklin | October 10, 2011 at 08:37 PM

You do realize that the program, as described, is the exact opposite of the privitization of policing, right?

[centralcal]

Kevin Williamson, which AB mentions above regarding 999, also had quite the back and forth with other regulars at NRO over in-state tuition assistance for illegal aliens. He was very "pro" to many of the others' "con."

I think he shakes things up at NRO and gets the debates going to and fro, if nothing else.

[Threadkiller]

I wish O'Reilly would take a few more days off.

[narciso]

Seems like an overtime element, except it doesn't cost the city anything, the real contempt for law enforcement along with the 'military mercenaries' as another dubbed them,
really comes through.

[Jack is Back!]

First walk off Grand Slam HR in post season history. Nelson Cruz. Don't hit me, baby, I'll make you pay.

Ron Washington, bespeckled genius (even though he screwed up in replacing Odongo sp?_)

[Roux]

Make it a 5-5-5 tax plan and I may like it.

[JM Hanes]

Ben Franklin:

"It's a distinction, without a fundamental difference to the consumer."

Only in the sense that it will be the consumer who gets hurt. I'm certainly open to correction, but as I understand it, he will be not just be paying the sales tax on his actual purchase. He will also be paying a higher price for the product itself, when all the new taxes a VAT would levy at every exchange along the production path are passed along. There would essentially be no such thing as wholesale, for example, and it's my impression that "value" may be defined more broadly than one might ordinarily expect.

[Ann]

Mitt Romney today unveiled the endorsement of former Sen. Mel Martinez, who will serve as chair of the campaign’s National Advisory Council, according to a release.

http://dailycaller.com/2011/10/10/mitt-romneys-newest-endorser-mel-martinez-co-sponsored-
the-dream-act/

Along with Senators Dick Durbin, Harry Reid, Patrick Leahy, Joe Lieberman and Russ Feingold, Martinez cosponsored the DREAM Act of 2009, which closely tracks the Texas measure that has become of late Romney’s primary target.

Palin Anyone? Oh never mind, she is stupid.

[narciso]

Facepalm with an octopus, Ann, they really don't think this through do they,

[JM Hanes]

Cecil Turner:

"I'd hoped we learned our lesson in '08 about electing the orator."

It would be a great asset in a Vice President though, don't you think?

[Captain Hate]

At this rate, will 10% of Mitt's policies be considered remotely acceptable?

[Rob Crawford]

Cain (who is only marginally qualified for the office anyway)

Which of the Constitutional requirements is he marginal on? Age? Natural-born citizenship? Perhaps he held the office for two terms already?

Or is it one of those unspoken extra-Constitutional requirements he's short on? Lack of a career extorting money to buy votes? Got the nod from the wrong college admissions board?

[Benjamin Franklin]

"Got the nod from the wrong college admissions board?"

"had no recognition of affirmative action"

The list goes on......

[narciso]

I have to say, Captain, I thought Melquiades
would prove a point of pride, as the first of my paisans in the Senate, but he proved quite
a dissapointment, plus I'm reminded he was the first HUD secretary in the W administration,

[centralcal]

Oh, Ann . . . I am so verklempt over Palin not running. I feel like the wind has gone out of my political sails. (Oh, stop it, DoT - don't wanna hear any I told ya so's!)

I am almost forced to pray (hopelessly?) for Perry to somehow, some way, recover from his lousy debate performances and a couple of his cringe worthy positions.

I like Cain. I am less than tepid about Romney. I already feel like I did when I voted for McCain (in the Primary, not the general when Sarah was part of the team).

Bummer.

[Jack is Back!]

narciso,

Mel is Crist's promoter and guardian angel. Anything more?

[Thomas Collins]

The Occupy Boston folks have expanded their tent city on the Rose Kennedy Greenway from Dewey Square across from the Boston Fed to the Pearl Street area. The crowd looks as if it is predominantly in their twenties. There are a few folks who look as if they might have honed their movement skills in the sixties. The Boston police are observing and making no effect to impede the squatters. I'm sure they'd treat a Tea Party crowd with the same solicitude.

The signs include (1) an end the Fed sign, (2) a sign stating that Iraqi war veterans are against the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, (3) a Massachusetts Teachers Association sign expressing support for Occupy Boston, (4) a sign criticizing negative income taxes (I suspect the complaint is not directed toward the refundable earned income tax credit, but some business that received a refund), and (4) my favorite, which stated that the sign holder preferred to be classified as a human being and not a human resource.

[Gmax]

Ogondo.

And that blast was mentioned on the Lions Bears MNF broadcast. It was crushed. So might the Tigers be.

[Captain Hate]

Look at it this way, narc; was he as big a letdown as El JEFe? And despite that I'd still vote for Allen West or Marco Rubio instead of the current litter.

[Cecil Turner]

Or is it one of those unspoken extra-Constitutional requirements he's short on?

Well, yes. >100 mil Americans satisfy the basic ones. I'd like to think we're a bit more selective than that. Here is a short summary of my opinion on the matter. And yes, I think Cain would make a good VP.

[Ann]

Ditto, CC!

[Captain Hate]

Mel is Crist's promoter and guardian angel.

Dear God; it doesn't get any worse than that.

[Benjamin Franklin]

"and it's my impression that "value" may be defined more broadly than one might ordinarily expect."

JMH; It's just window dressing for a progressive tax that is shifting the burden to those least able to absorb the additional cost, especially with hyperinflation on the horizon.

[Jack is Back!]

I leave you all with this. Then it is nitty nite. Finally have full power restored and very tired. Perhaps ChaCo and Kim have the answer?

[Gmax]

Ogando actually, cant type.

[Danube of Thought]

"He proposes a 2/3rds vote to raise it."

If done by legislation, it could be repealed by a simple majority in any succeeding congress.

This is the kind of detail that Cain has to master.

[Benjamin Franklin]

Holy Moly. Strike 'progressive' insert regressive....

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-12111507

[narciso]

Is there something in the water, over in Minnesota, this isn't a rhetorical question
anymore?

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2011/10/09/dem_congressman_keith_ellison_regulations_create_jobs.html

[Danube of Thought]

Calling Hit and Run: would you please do one of your patented word counts, and tell us what percentage on this thread come from the single largest source (much of it cut-and-pasted). This sort of intrusive bloviation is, among a number of other things, simply discourteous. And I have no doubt that notions of commom courtesy are utterly foreign to this fool.

[Benjamin Franklin]

"Is there something in the water,..."

Regulations are a part of living in an organized culture.

Traffic laws are a form of regulation as are the licenses and registrations necessary to maintain some order in our transportation choices.

Regulations for Business have a similar purpose. There are always those who feel the simple rule of good manners and decency don't apply to them. Scofflaws make life more complicated for those of us who resent being 'punished' with rules that don't seem to make sense according to our behavior patterns, but they remain a part of our lives.

"if they have a product to sell they will do well even if they have some new regulations to meet," the Congressman said."

[Rob Crawford]

I'd like to think we're a bit more selective than that.

That's worked so well for us, hasn't it?

And I have no doubt that notions of commom courtesy are utterly foreign to this fool.

His goal is to get everyone to abandon the site. It's working quite well, isn't it?

[Gmax]

Narcisolator is the answer.

[Danube of Thought]

You're correct, Gmax. I will employ it on my computer at once--but it doesn't work on the iPad.

[Benjamin Franklin]

"notions of commom courtesy"

I don't know what else I can do to comply with your notion of civility.
Aside from swallowing your ideology whole, what would you suggest"

I apologize for cooking bacon in your vegan kitchen, but if you can't have meat products touching your veggies, I have no problem with
you using the snarkisolator.

[jimmyk]

Here is a short summary of my opinion on the matter. And yes, I think Cain would make a good VP.

From your list, almost no president in recent memory (other than Bush 41, and it's not clear it helped) had foreign policy experience, so although it would seem important, in practice it doesn't seem to be decisive. Executive experience matters more, and then the question is whether it needs to be government experience. I'm not sure it does, but in all cases you have to know your limitations and get good advice. Cain seems to rely too much on his own seat-of-the-pants instincts, which are often good, but are likely to get him in big trouble at some point.

[fdcol63]

"Aside from swallowing your ideology whole, what would you suggest"

Refrain from commenting.

[Rob Crawford]

Refrain from commenting.

He doesn't comment. He switches from abuse to cut-and-paste and back.

[Danube of Thought]

"Aside from swallowing your ideology whole, what would you suggest"

I couldn't care less what you swallow. I would suggest, for openers, that you cut-and-paste very sparingly. Either you are unaware of how rudely intrusive you are, or you are indifferent about it. You are a disturbingly troubled fellow, as you have shown over a sustained period.

[Benjamin Franklin]

"Refrain from commenting."

Anyone else?

[centralcal]

Narcisolator is the answer.

No kidding, Gmax! That and a good teen aged hacker, can do wonders for any comment section. I sometimes feel that too many folks here are talking to ghosts - almost seance-like. I never see or hear or feel their presence - well, except for the channelers who must at all times respond to the auras only they see/hear/feel!

Ignorance (and good techy blockers) is BLISS!

[Benjamin Franklin]

"rudely intrusive "

I don't hear complaints about others who cp....I assume the 'rudeness' has something to do with the content. Am I wrong?

[Cecil Turner]

That's worked so well for us, hasn't it?

Not sure if you're suggesting the current occupant (who would be unqualified by my standards, but qualified by the basic Constitutional ones . . . unless you're proffering the argument he's not natural born) is the result of an overly selective process. If so, we can agree to disagree.

[bgates]

It's too big a step

We couldn't afford to spend the next 75 years repairing the damage done in the last 75 years even if we could be reasonably assured of control of the federal government for that long. No more big giant mistakes by the left followed by incremental tweaking of the problems by the marginally right of left of center.

too distasteful to the left

Heaven forbid (a phrase which is itself too distasteful to the left)

and too easily demagogued

The last Republican president was demagogued for supporting Clintonian nation building, Teddy Kennedy's education bill, and running deficits a third the level his successor allegedly requires to save the universe. The next one may as well be demagogued for actually being a conservative.

I'd hoped we learned our lesson in '08 about electing the orator.

I thought the lesson of '08 was "don't elect a thuggish anti-American buffoon".

[PD]

Stern announces first two weeks of NBA season canceled.

Early Christmas!

[Danube of Thought]

"On his MSNBC show this evening, Sharpton declared that his view of the Occupy Wall Street movement is that it should be about 'really, how we distribute the wealth in this country.'"

There it is again: the wealth is just sitting out there, waiting to be distributed. How politicians concluded that it will be distributed will have no effect on its continued, unlimited creation.

[Benjamin Franklin]

OK so, you want limited c&p and no comments.

So much for theoretical assumptions regarding regulation and 1st amendment......

Next?

[PD]

I'm reminded again of the deep similarities of OWS with the Tea Party.

OWS: (to Wall Street) Give us your money, even though we've done nothing to earn it. And when we've spent it all, we'll demand even more because of our rapacious appetite to usurp your assets.

Tea Party: (to government) We've worked hard to earn what we have, stop taking so much of it to satisfy your rapacious appetite to spend our money.

See? There's a rapacious appetite in each case. Perfect equivalence!

[Danube of Thought]

"Am I wrong?"

Absolutely. You will find no one else at this site who C/P's with either the volume or the frequency that you do. As for tehe content, I don't really know. I generally can recognize your product, and scroll on by. But the presence of all that stuff is an annoyance to me, and I'm sure to most people here. I suspect that annoyance is your purpose; certainly you have never made any effort to persuade anyone of anything, except that you are not the person we know you to be.

[Cecil Turner]

The next one may as well be demagogued for actually being a conservative.

That'd be fine, if he got something accomplished. But . . . .

At best, there's little likelihood the GOP will have a filibuster-proof majority in the Senate (and counting squishes, even an effective majority will be shaky). The propaganda outlets will be in full-throated roar about "regressive tax policy" and the people affected the most (bottom 50% income) will be unhappy. 9-9-9 won't pass, and the ensuing fight will squander any mandate until the mid-term elections, which the GOP would lose. And we'll have wasted our best chance to patch the hole in the side of the ship of state.

[Benjamin Franklin]

"certainly you have never made any effort to persuade anyone of anything, except that you are not the person we know you to be."

Well, since you state that you scroll by my posts, it's hard to imagine you could know anything about me or my purpose for being here.

[Jim Ryan]

Humans are the only species that pay to live on this planet. Why?

I give up. Because they prefer real estate profits to getting beaten to death by a neighboring clan that wants land?

[narciso]

It's very trite and unoriginal, we avoid the likes of Sorospress, except when they serve
a very juicy target, like Kevin Drum's self
fisking review of 'Confidence Men' that was
entertaining, mostly for the lack of 'redemptive selfawareness'.

[Jim Miller]

Off topic, but inspired by the post title:

Anyone know why we chose 9-1-1, and the Brits picked 9-9-9 for emergency numbers?

[It's unnatural.]

Every other species works like Hell to live on this earth. Half of our species doesn't.
==============

[Threadkiller]

What is your purpose for being here?

[Benjamin Franklin]

But, knowing how my very presence irritates you, and that history of our dialogues, it is probably well that we narcisolate each other. I have repeatedly displayed my Mission Statement, and feel it redundant to keep doing so. I try to engage others who honestly wish to discuss matters, collegially. I don't respond to certain posters here, regardless of the number of queries because I've found it leads nowhere. If that is your judgement of my relevancy, sobeit. I don't ask anything of you. C&P, comment, rant, whatever you want. i don't see much return for my efforts, but that is my business, not yours.

[Rick Ballard]

CT,

McDonnell and Boehner will be running things, not the President. That applies whether it's Cain, Romney or Perry and I don't believe that any words will be minced between the election and the inauguration by the legislative branch as to what the order of business will be when the 113th opens.

[Jim Miller]

Cecil Turner is right. Cain's plan, whatever its virtues, could not pass any likely Congress, even one with solid Republican majorities.

Nor do I see a plausible way that it could be used as a starting point for improvements in our current federal tax system.

I'm not sure whether we could even do something as useful as the 1986 reform, because there are so few Democrats left in Congress who are willing to work with Republicans.

[Danube of Thought]

"So much for theoretical assumptions regarding regulation and 1st amendment......Next?"

The 1st Amendment applies to governments, not to individuals suggesting self-restraint on the part of other individuals. Almost all educated American adults know that. (Perhaps that gentle reminder will cause you to reflect a bit upon whether you are actually capable of contributing anything useful here.)

"Next," I would suggest that you imagine that, when participating here, you are in a sense taking part in a dinner-table conversation. What sort of reaction would you anticipate if you spoke up more frequently than any other guest and, when you did speak, confined your remarks to lengthy quotations of what other people have said, without the slightest expression of agreement or disagreement with the content of those whom you quoted?

My guess is that you would go home thinking that you had been the life of the party, a major figure to be reckoned with in future salons. I would also guess--with considerable certitude--that the other guests would go home thinking that you were a bumptious clown, hoping against hope that they would not encounter you again.

[PD]

+1, DoT.