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October 25, 2011



"There was an old pilot over NHANT...


Just successfully completed my 6 month Simulator Checkride (Yippee) and today it was all at your Boston Airport.

Standard stuff with things blowing up and catching fire etc. (You have beautiful virtual Fire Trucks by the way!)

Thought it fun that the NAV points built into the approaches and departures around your airport include:


These ones also made sense to me:


And then there were these 2:


Can you tell me which of the 2 above, SWIGG or DRUNK, is Sturbridge?

BTW, On The RVAV 32 Approach I must say that I especially enjoy the vectors to the initial feeder point over the water at point SCUPP, then once established you simply intercept DRUNK, turn right at HAVRD, configure over YAARD, descend over the BGDIG, cross FNWAY, and then land just past PAARK on Runway 32, hopefully with no pretty Firetrucks in view, virtual or otherwise.

Position NHANT I assume is Nantucket
Where my wings caught on fire damn the luckit
So I pulled really hard
and just past HAVRD YAARD
dug a new hole at BGDIG aww F@#$it!

(Another) Barbara

(A)B - I have already gone on record that I will vote for "Lawn Gnome" over Obama

I know, C-cal. But if we continue to talk about Romney as Lawn Gnome in his appeal, we'll know that the election is already lost -- if he's the nominee, that is, which I believe is a reasonable expectation.

In nearly all elections, R's vote for R's and D's vote for D's. The I votes decide the outcome. Enough stink talk about Romney and Obama will easily get another four years. I wish we had a knight to ride in and save us but we don't now and likely won't. All our candidates are flawed.

My heart doesn't beat wildly for Romney, but I do find much that's admirable about him and I won't have to "hold my nose" (Lord, I hate that overworked expression!) to vote for him, or for any of his Republican competitors.

Jack is Back!

Isn't DRUNK MIT? Best drinking campus in the world, I kid you not. Famous football cheer, "Impede them, impede them , make them relinquish the ball".

Captain Hate

I think Mitt is getting a bit of a tough ride here on this Kasich issue.

Really? He was appearing at a call center that was making calls in support of the issues; that's a pretty strange setting to plead ignorance on them.

Kasich is a good example of being consistent with your policies; Mitt should take notes.


I'll post another MIT cheer:

Secant, cosine, tangent, sine
Logarithm, logarithm,
Hyperbolic sine
3 point 1 4 1 5 9
Slipstick, sliderule

CalTech had a great first down cheer:

Punt, punt, punt,
Punt, punt, punt,

and even better

God's on our side
We've got Feynman
Get in there
And kill their linemen!

Danube of Thought

I don't doubt Romney's honesty or integrity for a moment. What I doubt--very seriously--is his courage, and his commitment to any known set of principles.


Good job Matt!

Hey, Karl Rove is in Anchorage today and just got on my local Talk channel.

Excuse me as I go grab the pups and crank up the cell-phoe and see if I can think of something I need to ask Karl. Later.

Jack is Back!

Famous article from SI in 1987:

"Cal Tech has a standard roster: 1 potential Nobel laureate, 8 grad students, 24 undergrads and 16 nonacademic members—custodians, gardeners and others—who work around the Pasadena campus or at the nearby Jet Propulsion Laboratory. The Beavers also have a couple of 50-year-olds and students from France, Wales, Japan and Pakistan, some of whom carry pocket versions of the rules. The player from Wales watched his first football game through his own face mask as he kicked extra points and field goals."


"Nothing in or about the Minor case affects the issue in any way"

Pretty obvious that elements on both sides of the issue read the case as SCOTUS defining the meaning of natural born citizen. As I do aslo. Since you read it different why should anyone who reads it that way take your assertions seriously?

Melinda Romanoff


Thanks for clarifying that point, and shows how much I'm paying attention. My point was, according to the schedules I found,, that he was in NH filing his papers today, with Sununu Sr.

Still smells too convenient a story, for a single source.



Why the hell didn't you call? Sturbridge is Swigg, Southbridge is Drunk. My guess is NHANT is Nahant which is sort in the Revere area (I think). So where are you now?

Has everyone seen that Eric Holder has proposed that the Justice Dept (and the WH?) get to lie under the FOIA if they decide the info should be lied about? I'm simply appalled that the entire country is not out wielding guns over this. The sound bite I heard said it would go into effect in the new year. I swear every day I think I have woken up in the Soviet Union.

So Clarice, et al, does someone have to vote this into law or does Eric Holder just get to fib his way out of Fast and Furious and a zillion other things?

Sara (Pal2Pal)

Thanks for saying that Clarice.

I can not decide if my time in Washington has made me too jaded or left me too naive.

Matt: I had to laugh about your stoner remark. If the country only knew how many of our legislators are three sheets to the wind when they pontificate and/or conduct the nation's business, I think much of the stupidity would become clear. Back in the late '80s, Congressman Michels, Minority Leader, was falling out of his chair drunk at a meeting I had to attend with him. It was 1:00 in the afternoon of a weekday. Imagine what it was like to try to get thru to Teddy Kennedy when he was in the height of his drinking days.

Hey, I just thought of something good about Romney. We would never have to worry he was drunk or stoned in the Oval Office. :)


One additional point. Mitt did support Walker in his February fight with both money and the following statement:

"Liberal big government interests are fighting efforts to rein in out-of-control public employee pay and benefits in Wisconsin," Romney said in a statement. "It is critical that we stand with the Wisconsin GOP as it stands up for the rights of the taxpayer."

Could it be that Romney had a puzzling mental lapse? He was not misquoted -- the AP, CNN and the Cincinatti paper all confirmed Romney's unwillingness to commit himself on the Ohio initiatives.


Ahhh Daddy, "simulator" means you weren't really here, right?


Here's my core principle:
Will this person be a better president than Obama?

I do not intend to run after ever bone the media wants to throw. The important stuff, yes.


But on the hustings he simply will not stay consistent on political issues. That is not character assassination; it seems an undeniable fact.

And it does speak to his character.

Maybe we need a milquetoasty cipher who can soft-speak issues so as not to scare opponents and draw too much fire, but the person should still be trustworthy. His basic principles, obscured for the muddle, should be discernible to the informed. Obama did quite well at this challenge. His true believers knew that he was with them, and his opponents knew he was a commie at heart, regardless of what he said to whatever audience he was talking to during the campaign. I don't see this in Romney, unfortunately, and I have no idea what position he'd take on any given issue.

Sara (Pal2Pal)

My point was, according to the schedules I found,, that he was in NH filing his papers today, with Sununu Sr.

I had an up and down night last night, but I think Mitt filed yesterday. Sununu endorsed him yesterday too. I didn't watch too much news yesterday, but I'm pretty sure I remember The Five had clips of both events.

Danube of Thought

Boris, I read it as saying that a person born in the US of citizen parents is a natural born citizen (which no one disputes), and declining to consider whether other classes of citizens are or are not. And I read the entire discussion as non-precedential dicta, inasmuch as the question before the court was one of women's suffrage rights. No question of whether the woman was or was not a natural-born citizen, or eligible for the presidency, was before the Court.

Forget all about my assertions. Just read the words. Also read Wong Kim Ark (which, like Minor, would not control on the question of presidential eligibility, but which supports my position more than Minor supports yours).

Sara (Pal2Pal)

I have a tech problem with my computer and I wonder if anyone has any knowledge, advice, or fix? My laptop, since the middle of last night has been spontaneously rebooting every 5 to 20 minutes. It does it whether I'm actively doing something on it or not. Today, I was on the phone, not touching the computer at all and suddenly it shut down and rebooted. 10 minutes later, I was out of the room and when I came back it was in the process of rebooting.

I can't figure this out and I'm not sure what to do to fix the problem. Anyone have any suggestions.


--Really? He was appearing at a call center that was making calls in support of the issues; that's a pretty strange setting to plead ignorance on them.--

I meant the initial reports of how bad it was were not born out by what he did actually say.
Like DoT I think he is personally probably very trustworthy but his fortitude in the political arena seems quite situational which does not bode well.
Personally I wouldn't give a tinker's damn if we elected a drunken, womanizing, lying SOB so long as he was intent on running over the statists who are wrecking our way of life like a steamroller over a slip grape.

Jim Miller

Since last year, I have been explaining some of these Obama blunders as being caused by an unscrupulous Republican operative, who has infiltrated their organization.

(Yes, I am joking, for the humor-impaired, but it is one of those jokes that seems more and more plausible, with each new blunder.)

As I understand it, oatmeal is quite nutritious. It's even good for your heart.

And even an klutz in the kitchen like myself can figure out that it tastes OK if you add a little flavor, for instance, some raisins and cinnamon. (A real cook -- Clarice, for instance -- could probably come up with much better flavorings.)

Or, we can just turn to our most popular breakfast cereal, Cheerios, which is made, mostly, from oats.

And I'll leave the rest of the analogy to you.


"I am more and more convinced that the Republicans are the people who foreswore or dropped drugs and the Democrats are the ones still on them."

more accurately, i think the Democrats are the folks who still believe the silly stuff they thought was true when they were/are stoned and lost contact with reality, where the rest of us figured out that most of it was delusional nonsense. when you put altered consciousness and deconstructionism--which is to say neo-Marxism cloaked in pseudo-intellectualism--together you get a truly weird kind of de-spiritualised religious impulse where people genuinely believe they can create their own alternate reality, and that actual facts and situations don't/can't affect them because "that's not my reality." there's a very creepy post-New Age level to all the "yes we can/we are the people we've been waiting for" stuff that's smelled extremely funny to me from the very beginning.


There is an argument for steady, stable, and reasonable in our current environment.

Really? In an environment in which we are adding $1.5 Trillion in debt annually, with government spending up to 25% of GDP from less than 20%, with Europe in crisis, with the time bombs of Obamacare, Medicare, Social Security, Dodd-Frank, and God knows what else ticking away, how would anyone think we want "steady, stable, and reasonable"?

Here's my core principle:
Will this person be a better president than Obama?

That's fine for the general election, but for the nomination race that's not much guidance, as anyone with a pulse would presumably be better than Obama.


Yes Ignatz. They are related without any question.

Briefly Chaco actually inadvertantly implicated it yesterday I think when he mentioned the modern day research university.

I have covered this in detail in what I wrote recently but the idea is that you can leverage its colleges of ed to control K-12 and the type of grants available to taint the rest of the u. Even unfortunately DrJ's part. Ga is basically a closed system because the Hope scholarship which is about high school GPA and then federal loans after that keep the university system funded with lottery money. This is where officials have so learned to chase grant money that they go by the terms, whatever they are. That's what has allowed me to figure it out before it hits full force elsewhere. I really have mixed feelings. It is all tragic but part of me is heartbroken at the expense and the deliberate expensive destruction of what lives could have become. The other part reads all the scheming-some of it decades old-and feels like- "Not on my watch you SOBs. Not without a fight".

That's about as specific as I can be.

Comanche Voter

As a limp d#@k metrosexual, the Bamster is always going to have trouble with his Johnson.


(A)Barbara: "Lawn Gnome" v. Obama was at the very end of an AOSHQ recent poll and was in no way a reference to Romney over there or by me here! :) It was just a tongue in cheek reference to ABO. lol.


My laptop, since the middle of last night has been spontaneously rebooting every 5 to 20 minutes.

That's tough to diagnose from a distance. It could be heat, failing memory or hard drive, operating system corruption or many other hardware problems.

Do you have a CD or DVD drive? If so, you can run Memtest86 to check memory and stability (it does not load the operating system). There are a few programs that check the SMART status of the disk, like smartmontools.

If it is overheating, you have to take it apart and clean it. This is not hard, but it can be tedious. To check for this, try the program "Core Temp".

If you are comfortable with Linux, you could try running a live file system on a CD, like Knoppix. If that works, then it is a software issue.

How old is it?


Thanks rse.
Free money corrupts every where, every time.



Gack! What language is that, anyway?

So glad my computer isn't on the fritz. ha ha.


Gack! What language is that, anyway?

Almost -- not Gack, but Geek. Moi?


F@#$it is the INT of desperation with reality.


Paging Wehner and Kristol to the white courtesy phone:



Geek! Of course! ha ha ha ha ha


That's fine for the general election, but for the nomination race that's not much guidance, as anyone with a pulse would presumably be better than Obama.

Ha! True!

But when it comes to stuff like this, I will not be distracted. Romney was already visiting the phone bank. He made a general statement about public employee union reform, and he'd supported this reform in June.
Did he say the exact right thing today? Probably not, although I understand his fear of supporting something specifically as it appears to be going down. That won't help him, and it won't save it.
Do I believe this means Romney would coddle PEUs? No, I do not.
Further, I do not believe Romney would put idiots on the NLRB to cater to other unions.

So I'm going with "meh" on this.


Hope you're right, MayBee.


Good column by the frequently irritating Jeffrey Goldberg at Bloomberg on Romney and Mormonism, though Sara might think it less than good.

Sara (Pal2Pal)

DrJ: The laptop itself is nearly 5 years old, but I replaced the hard drive about 6 mo. ago and upgraded from Vista to Win 7 at that time. The memtests check out, but you may have hit on the problem with heat. The fan is iffy at best. I have started using an external fan that seems to keep it cool even better than the internal fan, but maybe it isn't working as well as I thought.

But just to give you an idea how sporadic this problem has become, after spontaneously rebooting at least 12 times, it has stopped and been stable since I posted my plea for help. Grrrrr!


PS: I just realized the laptop was pushed way over against the side of a table and the external fan air wasn't really getting to where it needed to be. Let me see if moving the 'puter back to where it should be does the trick. Fingers crossed.


"and declining to consider whether other classes of citizens are or are not"

I am well aware of your reading. Since it differes from mine anything else you may say on the matter is less than persuasive.


Maybee is correct on this issue. At least Romney was at the phone bank. I still think issue 5 is going to be a win for the yes vote. We also have Issue 3 which prohibits Obamacare. That will win also. Now the dumb dems don't like our redistricting map so they went to the courts. The cost to avoid a referendum and a court doing our map is giving black dems9especially in Columbus 305 more blacks in a district to insure the dems get the seat. Sounds like blackmail to me.
Also the poll for Mandel and Brown was 48-Brown
40 for Mandel
Finally -advice for Rangers-Grow a pair and start pitching to Pujols. Keep in mind I am not a baseball fan perse.I'm from Cleveland where disappointment is second nature to us. However 3 times at bat and you wuuss out by walking him? That rule should be c hanged and can only be used ONCE in a World Series game. Also Replay is desperately needed.


Should be 30% Dems weren't satisfied with 4 for sure rep seats.They want at least 7. I'm happy either Kucinich or Kaptur is going down.


Sara, I'd bet that you need to clean out the inside of the computer and the heat pipes, add new thermal compound to the CPU, and probably replace the fan (though cleaning and lubricating might be enough). I've been though this drill a few times with laptops, and it has always worked.

It is tedious, though. Laptops go together just one way, and are not forgiving of mistakes. If the problem continues, I'd check what someone in the area would charge to fix it.


Jen Rubin's got a bee in her bonnet, today, for reasons really passing understanding, in the LUN:

Melinda Romanoff


Or get a netbook just for surfing, if you can swing it.

And higher-rez glasses for the netbook, I know I had to...

Danube of Thought

Happily, Boris, the law will continue to be the law, and the words will continue to be the words, regardless of whether I can convince you of anything.


Mel, I really dislike netbooks and would never recommend one to a friend. It might just be me, but the keyboards and screens on the ones I have tried have been awful. I'd rather spend the few bucks more and get a traditional laptop.

Sara (Pal2Pal)

I never was a Beatles fan, but this is sick. I wouldn't like it even if it was Elvis or Neil Diamond either.

John Lennon's Tooth Expected to Fetch $16K at Auction


Jim Ryan

After they guy buys the tooth, tell him Lennon was a Reagan supporter. Then watch the look on his face.


Oh for gosh sakes, we're not surprised by this.. seriously, it's long past time that we all acknowledge Obama, and his slag wife are criminals, and he's seeking to loot the country. Can't we all stop acting civil and start hitting his big scam media pals for their covering up for the biggest crook in the US, if not the world. It's gone on long enough and even the poorest have to acknowledge that Obama's only exploited them to fatten his own purse


The betrayal from Justia has left this Google lawyer wanting. What is the consensus on The Oxford Companions?

Edited by Kermit L. Hall

Over 1,200 entries

The highly-acclaimed Oxford Companion to the Supreme Court was firstpublished in 1992, since which time the Supreme Court has continued to write constitutional history. This new edition of the Companion has been fullyupdatedand includesnew entrieson key casesand full treatment of crucial areas of constitutional law, such as abortion, freedom of religion, school desegregation, freedom of speech, voting rights, military tribunals, and the rights of the accused.

This is an accessible and authoritative guide, essential for judges, lawyers, academics, journalists, and anyone interested in the impact of the Supreme Court's decisions on American society.

Kermit L. Hall is president of the University at Albany, State University of New York, and Professor of History, and the editor of The Oxford Companion to American Law.

I sure hope they are credible. I would hate to get embarrassed again.


Minor defined citizenship? This was understood as late as the
2005 edition of the companion?

Pinch me.


'We were told no math would be involved'



-- slag wife --

Were you a fan of Alien Nation, too, jean?

JM Hanes


Ditto Sara on folks leaping all over Romney given the slightest opening, without even contemplating the kind of source checking that DebinNC undertook -- and IIRC, she doesn't even like Romney much either.

If Herman Cain had said the same thing, folks would probably be defending his restraint in not endorsing something he hadn't actually read, for a change.

Yeah, yeah, Mitt has a lot of flip flopping baggage, but it's not like Cain hasn't been doing some considerable backing up himself lately.


There were some hot slags on that show, though.


JMH that is precisely why I came down on Mitt. They all say stupid things, but Cain seemed to be the only one whose lack of experience was to blame.

Sara (Pal2Pal)

JMH: I didn't get a chance to congratulate you on the other thread, so a big congrats!!


From TM's paper, the NYT:
"Americans’ distrust of government is higher than ever and the national mood has provided an opening for protest movements like Occupy Wall Street."

That's a D-,isn't it? Because Americans distrust the government they protest business?

In the halcyon protest days of my youth, when we hated government, we marched on Washington. We stood outside the White House and Dylan wrote songs about Senators and Congressmen. Not today’s Obamas. No. They protest against oppressive government by a sit-in, not in the University President’s office, but in that storied middle of the road. On Wall Street. Literally.

Oh well. So much for cause and effect.


"regardless of whether I can convince you of anything"

As you say the words are still the words ...

it was never doubted that all children born in a country of parents who were its citizens became themselves, upon their birth, citizens also ...
No doubt about such children being citizens.
... Some authorities go further and include as citizens children born within the jurisdiction without reference to the citizenship of their parents. As to this class there have been doubts ...
About their citizenship ... not about being NBC.
Melinda Romanoff


It's a tool. It may not fit My hands or Yours, perfectly, but at the price point it's too cheap a tool to ignore, and I can't use Macs.

Especially on the road.

Melinda Romanoff


I e-mailed you on the rr addy.

Congratulations on a cogently written essay that deserved VDH's laudatory comments.

Danube of Thought

Minor defined citizenship?

It said that a person born on US soil of US citizen parents was a natural-born citizen, a proposition nowhere disputed by anyone to my knowledge. It expressly declined to consider whether persons born here of alien parents were natural born. Both statements were unnecessary to the ruling, which went on to hold that, whether she was a citizen of kind or not, she was not entitled to vote in Missouri.

When giving a legal citation to a Supreme Court case, a complete citation lists three separate publications that have compiled all such cases from the beginning of the Republic: The Supreme Court Reporter, cited as 56 S. Ct. 295 (for volume 56, page 295); the Lawyers Edition, cited as 122 L. Ed. 522; and US Reports, cited as 246 U.S. 546. The year of the decision is included in parentheses at the end. An earlier publication, Wall, no longer exists but shows up in early citations. Citations to Justia or the Oxford Companion simply are not used as case authorities.

All major law firms have all three reporters in their libraries, and every firm has at least one. So far as I am aware, no other citation to Supreme Court decisions is acceptable in any court, and I have never seen a Supreme Court case cited anywhere except to one or more of the three authoritative sources I have described.

I can't imagine the purpose of anyone deleting any reference to the Minor case, since it is cited in the later case of Wong Kim Ark (1895):

The Constitution nowhere defines the meaning of these words, either by way of inclusion or of exclusion, except insofar as this is done by the affirmative declaration that “all persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States.” In this as in other respects, it must be interpreted in the light of the common law, the principles and history of which were familiarly known to the framers of the Constitution. Minor v. Happersett, 21 Wall. 162; Ex parte Wilson,114 U.S. 417, 422; Boyd v. United States,116 U.S. 616, 624, 625; Smith v. Alabama,124 U.S. 465. The language of the Constitution, as has been well said, could not be understood without reference to the common law. Kent Com. 336; Bradley, J., in Moore v. United States,91 U.S. 270, 274. [p655]

It is noteworthy that in Wong the government, in its unsuccessful brief, argued that

The question presented by this appeal may be thus stated: Is a person born within the United States of alien parents domiciled therein a citizen thereof by the fact of his birth? The appellant maintains the negative, and in that behalf assigns as error the ruling of the district court that the respondent is a natural-born citizen…

It is significant that Mr. Justice Fuller, in dissent, pointed out the implications of the majority's ruling:

Considering the circumstances surrounding the framing of the Constitution, I submit that it is unreasonable to conclude that “natural-born citizen” applied to everybody born within the geographical tract known as the United States, irrespective of circumstances, and that the children of foreigners, happening to be born to them while passing through the country, whether of royal parentage or not, or whether of the Mongolian, Malay or other race, were eligible to the Presidency, while children of our citizens, born abroad, were not.

The government and Justice Fuller had their say. They lost.


Well there is a symbiosis, a zysgy, of sorts, how the late Ambassador Holbrooke, formerly of the AIG, Donilon as a lobbyist for Fannie
and Freddie, ditto for Nides, at State, are
one and the same with their Government role.

Melinda Romanoff


Donilon was CIO of Freddie.



"It expressly declined to consider whether persons born here of alien parents were natural born citizens."

Fixed that for you.

Sara (Pal2Pal)

I knew you could use toothpaste as a jewelry cleaner, especially for diamonds, but vodka.

Use Vodka as a Chrome and Jewelry Cleaner


That rule should be c hanged and can only be used ONCE in a World Series game.

Maryrose, I will duly pass your suggestion on to Bud Selig. I am certain he will be interested in having the competition committee give it full consideration. Please dont hold your breath, one of the two leagues still has not adopted the designated hitter rule. Tradition is a quaint but respected thing in baseball.

And Pujols got three swings in the nineth with a runner on base. If I were coaching he might not see another one, since no one else in the lineup seems nearly as frightening.


The revolving door, swings faster than a merry go round:

Broderick D. Johnson comes to Bryan Cave with more than two decades of public policy and law experience. From 1998-2000, Johnson served in the White House Office of Legislative Affairs. He was named deputy assistant to the president and House liaison, acting as the Clinton administration's primary advocate before the U.S. House of Representatives during 1999 and 2000. From 2000 to 2007, he worked as vice president for congressional affairs with the AT&T and BellSouth corporations. During those years, he worked extensively with the Democratic leadership of both Houses of Congress. His primary policy focus has been before House and Senate committees presiding over commerce, judiciary and tax issues. In 2004, he also served as the senior congressional affairs advisor for the Kerry-Edwards presidential campaign.

Johnson began his legal career in 1983 when he was appointed assistant counsel in the House of Representatives' Office of Legislative Counsel. There he drafted such landmark legislation as the Family and Medical Leave Act and the Immigration Reform and Control Act of 1986. He left that post in 1989 to join the Washington, D.C., law firm Wiley, Rein & Fielding. After spending four years in private practice, he returned to Congress to serve as majority staff director and chief counsel for the House Committee on the District of Columbia (1993-1995) under then-Chairman Fortney "Pete" Stark. He went on to serve as the Democratic chief counsel for the House Committee on Education and the Workforce under Ranking Member William Clay (D-MO) from 1995 to 1998

Captain Hate

Yeah, yeah, Mitt has a lot of flip flopping baggage, but it's not like Cain hasn't been doing some considerable backing up himself lately.

Wonderful endorsement; it's like having Slick that you can trust around your wife or daughter.

Frau Überraschung

"I'm just praying no OWS hit folksong comes out...to be played on an endless loop on PBS for all eternity."

Janet, wait till you catch "Where Have All the Freebies Gone?" or "(Our toilet stench, my friend, is) Growin'in the Wind" or "Give Debt Forgiveness a Chance." Peter and Paul are talking to Joan Baez.


This was an ad at Instapundit - Obama Backwards Running Watch


Hahahaha..Frau!!! Those are great! LOL!


And I have to insist once again jurisprudence by a concurring voice on Dred Scott, and like minded attitude on Plessy, just doesn't real
sound American to me, if you miss those two
big ones, your judgement is definitely faulty.

JM Hanes


"They all say stupid things, but Cain seemed to be the only one whose lack of experience was to blame."

That presumes Mitt actually said something stupid, which is certainly not how I'd characterize the remarks in question.

I'd credit Cain's inexperience, if he really believes he can run a presidential campaign off the cuff, but given his lack of concern about getting things (even elemental things like signing a constitutional amendment) wrong and constantly having to regroup ex post facto, I don't think he's actually been running for the White House. I think he never expected to get this far, doesn't really care all that much about winning the nomination which he still probably doesn't expect to get either, and is having the time of his life. I loved his you-figure-it-out smile in the "cigarette ad."

I don't think Newt is really running either. I think he realized that he had maxed out his perennial will-he-or-won't-he card, and that the fish or cut bait bill had come due. He had to fish, if he wanted maintain his Guru-in-Chief status on the right and his go-to status in the political media.

That gives both Cain & Gingrich tremendous freedom to say whatever is on their minds, be it what they want the people and Republican candidates to hear, in Gingrich's case, or what they want people to hear and see in Cain's. That's exactly what they've been doing, and they've been playing incredibly valuable parts on stage in that regard. If anything, I'd say both of them are running for the VP slot -- which would be particularly attractive to someone who doesn't want to have to spend 24/7 stumping for money. I happen think either one of them would be a terrific Veep, although I'd prefer Cain by a long shot. I sorely wish I felt that positive about the choice between Perry or Romney which is what I think it's going to come down to.


♪ ♫ All we are saying...is give us your cash. ♫ ♪


When Fuller had his say and won in Ex Parte Lockwood, a citation was born.

“In Minor v. Happersett, 21 Wall. 162, this court held that the word ‘citizen’ is often used to convey the idea of membership in a nation, and, in that sense, women, if born of citizen parents within the jurisdiction of the United States, have always been considered citizens of the United States, as much so before the adoption of the fourteenth amendment of the constitution as since;”

I was a little nervous that The Fuller court stating "this court held" may have been over the top. It appears to have the correct citations, so I believe SCOTUS on this one.

It also helped that Stephen Johnson Field was an Associate Justice during the Lockwood opinion. Why does that help? He was also an Associate Justice that participated in the unanimous Minor opinion.

I would assume an Associate Justice knows the difference between a holding and dicta on an opinion he was involved with.

Rick Ballard


Any thoughts on the consumer confidence miss this morning? I believe that Q3 will come in close to the consensus of 2.2% but I don't see Q4 as making it to even that parlous point. The Amazon sales and earnings were rather revealing.


Well done, Frau! I am humming them already. :)

Melinda Romanoff

And to follow that, JMH, I think you'll love this Cain ad even more.

Yellow flowers, heh.

He and his crew know media more than the competition, that's for d#mn sure.

Danube of Thought

Let me be more precise: nothing in the Minor decision purported to limit the natural-born category to those born here of US parents. (To the extent that it did, it was overruled by Wong Kim Ark.)

Now fix Wong Kim Ark for me. Please address the implications of the government's brief and Justice Fuller's defense.


♪ ♫ If I had a hammer...I would never use it, you couldn't make me use it, nowhere in this land...♪ ♫

Rick Ballard

♪ ♫ If I had a hammer...I'd have to take a lesson, cause I don't know how to use one, and neither do my friends...♪ ♫

Melinda Romanoff


2.0=Q3, 0.9=Q2, and -0.2=Q1.

Those are the #'s I will not be surprised to see. I really want to see the back changes, and if all the action is still in "Health Care" and "Temporary Employment Services".

The Confidence Index, that shows up monthly, skews weirdly. I've always had a tough time with it. I'm much more comfortable with the University of Michigan survey, released on Fridays. I think it tracks more to the sense of the general economy, but that's me and twenty years of sifting these stupid headlines.

I used to scale the economic data releases, on a scale of 1-10, relative in importance to interest rate markets. I used negative numbers often, as this one frequently ranked, in my eyes.


Right now I am concerned with citizenship being part of the holding in Minor. I will gladly address all things WKA, but if we don't agree that citizenship was part of the holding WKA discussion are moot.

I have placed Lockwood on the table.


I blame my Droid for all missing commas.


When you absolutely positively have to fisk Richard Cohen, something Charles Austin gave up on doing, in the LUN

JM Hanes

A pilot flew over NHANT
Cried, "I want to come down, but I can't!"
So he passed round a SWIGG
Dbl'd down DRUNK on BGDIG
Pahked that cah in the YARRD all aslant.

Danube of Thought

"I would assume an Associate Justice knows the difference between a holding and dicta on an opinion he was involved with."

I would assume so too, although they often use sloppy language about it; in any event it is irrelevant to the question of whether a person born on US soil of alien parents is a citizen, natural-born or otherwise. (Do you contend otherwise?) Wong Kim Ark settled that question forever, and both the government and Justice Fuller understood the case to confer natural-born citizenship--and presidential eligibility--on Mr. Wong. No subsequent case is to the contrary.


"Let me be more precise: nothing in the Minor decision purported to limit the natural-born category to those born here of US parents. (To the extent that it did, it was overruled by Wong Kim Ark.)"

Disagree on both counts. Do you now agree that the "doubts" in minor were (in their own words) that children born here to non citizens should be "included as citizens" ?

That is a necessary requirement to argue further that my reading does limit the natural-born category.

Also the logic in your Wong excerpt does no such thing. I find it hard to believe that you think it does.


♪ ♫ We wrecked paradise and lived in a parking lot...oooohhhh bop,bop,bop,bop ♪ ♫

Melinda Romanoff

Joe the Plumber is running for Congress.

Danube of Thought

TK, I don't agree, but for purposes of argument I will stipulate that the language about citizenship in Minor is a holding. So what? It obviously did not preclude a holding of citizenship for Mr. wong.

Boris, I do agree about the "doubts" expressed in Minor. Do you agree that all such doubts were resolved in Wong?

"Also the logic in your Wong excerpt does no such thing."

I'm not sure what "such thing" is. Wong held that persons born on US soil of alien parents are citizens at birth. The holding goes no further than that. I offer the excerpt from the government's brief, and the Fuller dissent, only to suggest what the parties and the Court considered to be at stake. As I have repeatedly and consistently stated, the holding of a case goes no further than its ruling on the issue before it. Neither natural-born citizenship nor presidential eligibility were before either the Minor or Wong courts.

Sara (Pal2Pal)

I know TK makes a distinction between natural born and native born, but I can't recall whether DOT or Boris does.


Melinda Romanoff

There are just too many at this post to link to fairly.

Have at it.

(Another) Barbara

(A)Barbara: "Lawn Gnome" v. Obama was at the very end of an AOSHQ recent poll and was in no way a reference to Romney over there or by me here!

Oh I knew that Cc. I saw the poll too and laughed about Lawn Gnome's candidacy. I was just saying here that Romney didn't merit being treated worse than Lawn Gnome.


"all such doubts were resolved in Wong"

About citizenship sure. Seems to me they neither struck nor affirmed the lower court on NBC.

Melinda Romanoff

For Rick-

Policy paper #2, for the day.

Melinda Romanoff

And I fade.

G'night all.


Since folk songs are such a 20th century vehicle for dissent, I'm expecting rap. We'll just have to wait for All Things Considered to do a piece on Keny Arkana so that one of those OWSers can be sufficiently inspired.

JM Hanes

Where's the College Loan Team's fighting spirit? You gonna just leave us stuck here looping through Natural Born Ground Hog Day?

Danube of Thought

Citizenship was all that was before them (just as suffrage was the only issue before the Minor Court). The excepts from the government brief and the dissent are offered only to show the understandings of the participants. They would bind no later court, although they could be offered in argument.

I wish I could get agreement simply on this; there is no appellate or Supreme Court holding on the meaning of the phrase "natural born citizen" in Article 2 of the constitution.

And this: only two lower courts have ever considered the question; both came out my way although neither is binding precedent. Disagree?


--"Wong held that persons born on US soil of alien parents are citizens at birth. The holding goes no further than that. "--


The actual holding in WKA:

“The evident intention, and the necessary effect, of the submission of this case to the decision of the court upon the facts agreed by the parties were to present for determination the single question stated at the beginning of this opinion, namely, whether a child born in the United States, of parent of Chinese descent, who, at the time of his birth, are subjects of the Emperor of China, but have a permanent domicil and residence in the United States, and are there carrying on business, and are not employed in any diplomatic or official capacity under the Emperor of China, becomes at the time of his birth a citizen of the United States. For the reasons above stated, this court is of opinion that the question must be answered in the affirmative.”

Anchor babies are out.

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