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October 24, 2011

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Gmax

Geraghty over at NRO notes this rather significant finding of a recent poll:

A new Angus Reid Public Opinion poll finds Obama’s approval rating unchanged at 40 percent, and adds, “among Independents, the level of strong disapproval for the American president outranks the level of strong approval by a 6-to-1 margin (42 percent to 7 percent).”

This is an online survey, but the pollster notes that the sample is weighted to be a “representative national sample of 1,031 American adults.”

MarkO

Scarlett Johansson? P. G. Wodehouse?
Obama resigns? Krugman banned from JOM?
Republicans fully back candidate in effort to win?

Gmax

All the gushing over Albert Pujols seems to have subsided, unless I am misreading this.

The campaign for sainthood has been put on hold for now.

MarkO

MarkOworld?

Now I have to be on the lookout for the Griswald family. Good grief.

Jack is Back!

Sandy,

Don't forget the butterscotch sundaes at ANC. Use to do lunch there 2 times a week. Great club, great staff. Do they still have the barber shop downstairs?

matt

I saw McGwire in the dugout last night as the hitting coach and just about puked. He is a man without dignity and small to boot. But he LaRussa's boy.

And National Propaganda Radio's Michelle Norris is stepping down as a host, but will continue to report, because her husband is a player in the re-elect Obama campaign.

Speaking of which the president will be playing havoc with LA traffic today and tomorrow with a visit. He's in nonstop campaign mode now.

Captain Hate

The Empire strikes back: http://www.businessinsider.com/david-frum-paul-krugman-right-2011-10

Rick Ballard

"Republicans fully back candidate in effort to win?"

I have fully backed ABO ever since the inauguration and intend to continue to do so until T1000, Pizza King or Tex wins and is inaugurated. I do remain profoundly indifferent as to which one does the job but that does not mean that I won't support his effort.

I might support candidates in the 13-15th ranked Senate races a bit more though.

Off to the dump - setting up a good rat blind takes time.

MayBee

Charlie:

The real solution is to make student loans dischargeable through bankruptcy, but no one wants to do this because people then say things like

"A family makes a decision to borrow money for college because they failed to save enough, and now it is a political decision to waive those debts using money from our grandkids, even from the grandchildren of families which did pay cash to educate their kids or did forgo college because they could not pay for it?"


Making them dischargeable via bankruptcy doesn't put the burden on other people any more than any other dischargeable loan does.

The political problem is the Obama administration has spent three years making avoiding bankruptcy the reason to implement all manner of social engineering.
GM and Chrysler had to be restructured because, in Obama's world, regular bankruptcy would have shut down the US auto industry.

Medical expenses causing bankruptcy was a huge argument in the Obama care debates (Hello, Elizabeth Warren!).

So how can he suddenly say, "I've solved the student loan crisis by saying you should all declare bankruptcy"???

MayBee

What is it about Obama that makes him think repeatedly choosing rush hour to land in/leave LA is a swell idea?

narciso

He's gone from the New Majority to the Frum Forum, which is rife with Axeltroofers to the
coming 'Cubicle in sector 7G'.

Charlie (Colorado)

My neighbor had a sign in their window "Get out of Iraq"...where is the "Get out of Libya", "Get out of Uganda", "Get out of Pakistan", "Get out of Yemen", sign????

Well, to be fair, we weren't actually in Libya. But it sounds like what you need is a "Get out of Gaddafi" sign.

GMAX

You plebes in LA la land need to pipe down. Dear Leader is on the case and he does not need or desire input from the likes of you.

Jane

So can Congress refuse to fund an executive order, or is that private stash always available to the socialist in chief?

Charlie (Colorado)

Making them dischargeable via bankruptcy doesn't put the burden on other people any more than any other dischargeable loan does.

Sure it does, MayBee. If you make the loan dischargeable through bankruptcy, then the government guarantee kicks in: it comes from the taxpayer.

But any debt discharge through bankruptcy puts the burden on someone else: the creditor doesn't get the money, and so loses; they adjust their rates to take more money in interest to account for the additional risk, so the bankruptcy risk eventually means the burden of uncollectable debt is laid off on the other people getting loans who do pay their loan off.

boris

The absurdity of the outcome actually is part of "rational" analysis necessary to deal with the problem. When policy X leads to absurdly unfair consequence Y, then policy X is fuctup.

MayBee

This just seems so wacky to me. From LA's NPR station:

The president hopes to re-establish support from Latinos with a Los Angeles fundraiser organized by the Futuro Fund, a group comprised of Latinos. The star-studded event is at the home of actor Antonio Banderas and his wife Melanie Griffith. Actress Eva Longoria helps host the event.

So Obama hopes to bolster "Latino" support at the home of wealthy Spaniard, hosted by a wealthy Texas-born woman of Mexican heritage. Why do we assume those two people have anything in common but their wealth and knowledge of the Spanish language?

Then, the issues are supposed to be illegal immigration and high latin unemployment, yet the price to get into this political fundraiser is $38,500 per person.

Finally, they want to draw attention to the fact that Republicans want to "militarize" the Mexican American border. But why would Latinos not be concerned about the rising crime rates in the border towns? (hint: my Mexican friends are!) and why would a Spanish man care more than any other European? And how "militarized" are their own home security systems? And how "militarized" will Hancock Park be tonight when Obama is there? Do they think the average American doesn't deserve safety?

Why don't these people take their $38,500 and establish a scholarship fund for children of illegal immigrants? Wouldn't that be an amazing use of that money?

Charlie (Colorado)

So how can he suddenly say, "I've solved the student loan crisis by saying you should all declare bankruptcy"???

I guess the point I wasn't making clear is that there is no solution to the student loan crisis that doesn't eventually involve either indentured servitude and/or debtors prison, or the public taking up the slack.

I wrote a long piece on this with reference to mortgages in February 2009, but the argument's basically the same. We can either accept that the value is gone and get on with life, or we can struggle; same thing will happen either way.

boris

"the public taking up the slack"

And just why is the public getting mad about that "irrational"?

MayBee

Sure it does, MayBee. If you make the loan dischargeable through bankruptcy, then the government guarantee kicks in: it comes from the taxpayer.

But any debt discharge through bankruptcy puts the burden on someone else: the creditor doesn't get the money, and so loses; they adjust their rates to take more money in interest to account for the additional risk, so the bankruptcy risk eventually means the burden of uncollectable debt is laid off on the other people getting loans who do pay their loan off.

I guess I was thinking you take away the government backing when you make them dischargeable. Still, the government has many foreclosures operating the same way with guarantees to the banks.
The last paragraph is why I compared it to any other loan/debt. We all bear the price of people who don't pay their debts.

But simply forgiving loans without the bankruptcy part is a whole 'nother kettle of fish.

Charlie (Colorado)

The absurdity of the outcome actually is part of "rational" analysis necessary to deal with the problem. When policy X leads to absurdly unfair consequence Y, then policy X is fuctup.

Yup. But absent time machines, what'r'ya gonna do?

MayBee

I guess the point I wasn't making clear is that there is no solution to the student loan crisis that doesn't eventually involve either indentured servitude

I cry foul.
A loan is indentured servitude. Deal with it.

The other question is: Is there really a crisis?

MarkO

Mabye the change Obama said we could believe in is simply changing all the creditors to debtors.

Charlie (Colorado)

But simply forgiving loans without the bankruptcy part is a whole 'nother kettle of fish.

It's hard to think of an essential difference. Maybe make it a once-in-a-lifetime thing: once a student loan is discharged, you can never again get a student loan. Or even better, change the system so that the price of the loan is more consistent with the real risk, so that a degree in Women Studies is like a Visa card while a degree in Finance from the Harvad B-school is more like a mortgage.

Porchlight

Why don't these people take their $38,500 and establish a scholarship fund for children of illegal immigrants?

Because that would be boring and because then they wouldn't get to rub elbows with Barack, Antonio, Melanie and Eva. And besides, funding scholarships for children of illegals is the government's job. Duh.

Charlie (Colorado)

A loan is indentured servitude. Deal with it.

MayBee, we eliminated indentured servitude with all the other forms of slavery back in 1865.

Charlie (Colorado)

Because that would be boring and because then they wouldn't get to rub elbows with Barack, Antonio, Melanie and Eva.

Hm. I guess I'd settle for rubbing Eva's elbows.

Clarice

PJM Pope- a- Dope by Simon:
Pope-a-Dope?
The Papacy has decided to stick its nose into international business, informing us, among other things “…the [financial] crisis has revealed behaviours like selfishness, collective greed and hoarding of goods on a great scale….” Let’s be kind and assume they weren’t referring to zillions of dollars in art hoarded by the church and continue on to the papal recommendation of a “global authority” and some kind of “Central World Bank” to undercut the “idolatry of the market” the Pope sees as so dangerous. Who controls that entity? Our good friends at the United Nations? The oh-so-successful bureaucrat in Brussels? The Vatican? The sharia department of Al Azhar? The eyes roll.

With all respect to the Holy See, time to restrict ourselves to matters of the spirit.

narciso

I know, you were all surprised, not:


http://blog.american.com/2011/10/obamas-underwhelming-housing-plan/

MayBee

Apparently we did not, Charlie.

Clarice

CH and all Ahians, Mandel is edging up to Brown--get out there, roll up your sleeves, open your check books and help the guy.

MayBee

It's hard to think of an essential difference.

If I could walk away from my mortgage with absolutely no punishment, I would seriously consider it.

I do not believe you believe loan forgiveness is essentially the same as bankruptcy.

MayBee

Charlie- those aren't her elbows.

Old Lurker

The root of the problem, assuming I do not accept the duty to educate my neighbor's kids through college, is that the system is playing with play money. If Chaco makes the loans dischargable, a very high percentage of OWS thinking kids will immediately do so. And so no rational lender would make any loans under those conditions. Which means only the government will. Which gets back to play money.

So leave the government out of it and make the loans safe enough for rational lenders to risk their own money. The only way to do that is to either make them non-dischargable (thereby liens on future earnings presumbably made higher by the lender's investment) or guaranteed by the parents, or some combination thereof.

And rse will document that all that play money enables lazy previous gen OWS brats to teach basketweaving on tenure.

Two birds.

One stone.

MayBee

I was given to understand that many employers look unfavorably upon those who have declared bankruptcy. I would think that might keep many graduates from frivolously declaring bankruptcy.

Sue

I might have missed something, and this might be what Obama is proposing, I'm reading up, not down, but student loans are not dischargeable in bankruptcy.

MayBee

If student loans were simply forgivable (with no bankruptcy), what rational person would pay for college with any other means?

Danube of Thought

Taranto's column one day last week did an excellent job in showing the striking parallels between the housing and education bubbles, in particular the majore role played by government intervention in both.

Deciding that a debt which was not dischargeable in bankruptcy at the time it was incurred will suddenly be made dischargeable does not strike me as sound public policy, but I have no other course that I could recommend. No one should harbor any illusions that every problem created by government can be solved.

Captain Hate

Mandel is edging up to Brown

Woot! This will get interesting as Sherrrrrrod tries to distance himself from El JEFe. Good luck with that.

Charlie (Colorado)

Apparently we did not, Charlie.

Tell it to the Supreme Court, MayBee.

MayBee

I will never forget Sherrod Brown flying back from his mother's wake so he could vote for Obama's stimulus bill....only to have Obama fly to Chicago with Michelle for the weekend before signing it.

That's back when people liked Obama.

MayBee

You were the one who used the term "indentured servitude". I thought you were using a rhetorical device, not being literal.
Being responsible for a non-dischargeable student loan debt seems very much like indentured servitude to me. You have to work until you pay it off.

Porchlight

If student loans were simply forgivable (with no bankruptcy), what rational person would pay for college with any other means?

No one. And what would keep tuition from going up to $100K/year and higher? After all, it's all guaranteed.

Porchlight

Sherrod Brown is near the top of my "get" list for next year (Obama obviously at the very top).

We should make a big JOM list, that would be fun.

Jane

If we stop government guarantees on student loans the price of tuition would fall rapidly. With kids unable to borrow money, colleges will fight harder to attract good applicants which means lower tuition. It would also put an end to AA. Win/win/win. Meanwhile I say let the stupid generation learn their lesson.

The reason it took me 10 years post college to go to law school is I had to be sure I could pay back the loans. Nothing wrong with that.

Janet

If student loans were simply forgivable (with no bankruptcy), what rational person would pay for college with any other means?

A moral person. Someone who would consider it stealing to take money as a loan & then just not pay it back....expecting others (taxpayers) to pick up their debts.

DrJ

The only way to do that is to either make them non-dischargable (thereby liens on future earnings presumbably made higher by the lender's investment) or guaranteed by the parents, or some combination thereof.

Insty suggests having the school being on the hook too.

Charlie (Colorado)

Deciding that a debt which was not dischargeable in bankruptcy at the time it was incurred will suddenly be made dischargeable does not strike me as sound public policy, but I have no other course that I could recommend. No one should harbor any illusions that every problem created by government can be [satisfactorily] solved.

And that's (with my little editorial change) the problem.

Look, if we wait long enough, the debts will be discharged: the debtors will die, their estates will close, and remaining debts vanish like they saw a boojum.

Since we can't sell them and their children into slavery, the really uncollectable debts are going to be discharged whether it's bankruptcy, "loan forgiveness" or simply the decease of the debtor.

Don't like it? Well, I think gravity sucks, but I can't fly anyway.

Charlie (Colorado)

No one. And what would keep tuition from going up to $100K/year and higher? After all, it's all guaranteed.

Ah-ha, I'm seeing something here. The unshared assumption here is that after cleaning up the current mess, we'd want to leave the current system in place. We can't. It's broke. As well as broken.

Charlie (Colorado)

Charlie- those aren't her elbows.

Contrary to some opinions, I can tell her elbows from ... other parts.

MayBee

The unshared assumption here is that after cleaning up the current mess, we'd want to leave the current system in place. We can't. It's broke. As well as broken.

First of all, I'm smack dab in the middle of the current mess. I'm paying for college right now. If there's going to be a free ride, I want a piece of it. I don't care if Janet thinks that's immoral. My tax dollars are already helping to support the colleges these kids go to.

And oh you have such faith. This is, after all, the administration that kept the unions in place when they went to "fix" the auto companies.

Now. What is the downside of making bankruptcy a condition for discharge? I don't see the argument against it.

Charlie (Colorado)

Being responsible for a non-dischargeable student loan debt seems very much like indentured servitude to me. You have to work until you pay it off.

And since we don't have indentured servitude, that can't be enforced. That's all an indentured servant was: someone who had a debt that had to be paid off through labor that they could be forced to do.

What we have now is a situation where people whose actual qualifications may not be enough to get a job that includes saying "would you like fries with that?" and undischargeable debts the size of a house mortgage.

You know Stein's Law: if it can't go on, it won't. This is a correlary: if it can't be done, it won't.

MayBee

So are you saying the student loan program as it is is illegal?

Charlie (Colorado)

Now. What is the downside of making bankruptcy a condition for discharge? I don't see the argument against it.

Well, that's what I suggested to start with: make them dischargeable through bankruptcy. I'd even go another step, and say -- assuming there's a government guarantee program at all, which I'd actually argue against -- that once a guaranteed student loan is discharged, the bankrupt is forever ineligible for another one.

Clarice

At the same time the colleges are churning out brochures bragging of all the super luxurious facilities they''ve added to compete for students. I'm old enough to remember when there was one entree for dinner..eat it or get some bread and peanut butter. And so on and so forth..

I even remember when the faculty was larger than the administration and there was no remedial anything for incoming students..Tuition was so affordable then that at the top going rate of $1.50 an hour I was able to work my way thru school.

centralcal

HotAir has another one of their primary polls, but this one was kinda fun, for a change. You make your selection from all primary candidates in decreasing increments downto finally only two in the general election:

Lawn Gnome?
Obama?

I voted, of course, for Lawn Gnome.

Charlie (Colorado)

So are you saying the student loan program as it is is illegal?

I wouldn't be too surprised to see the SCOTUS decide nondischargeability is unconstitutional, although the legal lights among us might have a better idea.

But mainly I just think it was dumb, and there's no solution that won't result in the government -- and thereby, us -- getting hit with it.

The trick is to not keep doing it the same way we did.

MayBee

Well, that's what I suggested to start with: make them dischargeable through bankruptcy.

Yes. But you said nobody wants this, which is something I'm not sure is true. You also said you see little difference between forgiveness and bankruptcy.

But I'm glad to see that you do think bankruptcy is the better option.

DrJ

Tuition was so affordable then that at the top going rate of $1.50 an hour I was able to work my way thru school.

I agree with all of this, including the parts I cut. The wage rate when I went to school was a bit higher (about $3 per hour), but I still was able to earn about half the money I needed for the academic year by working summer jobs.

That's no longer possible, even at most state schools. And I blame the same things you do.

Charlie (Colorado)

I even remember when the faculty was larger than the administration and there was no remedial anything for incoming students..Tuition was so affordable then that at the top going rate of $1.50 an hour I was able to work my way thru school.

Yup. And the combination of student loans etc, and the government-grant-supported "research university", are what made it that way.

Jane

I can remember being told that student loans die with you and if I had paid mine off at the normal rate (at 9% interest) mine certainly would have died with me. So why not make part of the cost of a student loan, a life insurance policy? Morbid but useful.

Charlie (Colorado)

But you said nobody wants this, which is something I'm not sure is true.

Go back and read through the "because" part of the sentence. In any case, I'm actively arguing that student loans should be dischargeable in bankruptcy, but then we'd have to change the system to make some sense afterwards.

Danube of Thought

You can't assume that every single student-debtor is going to default. To the extent those debtors are making payments, the taxpayer avoids the burden.

What remedies are available to the lenders? Attachment? Garnishment? Are the loans entirely non-recourse?

Charlie (Colorado)

So why not make part of the cost of a student loan, a life insurance policy? Morbid but useful.

Hell, you can get that for credit cards, why not?

Captain Hate

Insty suggests having the school being on the hook too.

Aren't the schools effectively insulated, at least in the short term, by not being directly involved with most of the student loans?

Charlie (Colorado)

What remedies are available to the lenders? Attachment? Garnishment? Are the loans entirely non-recourse?

That's where I wonder if you don't run into indenture problems. Say you can garnishee the persons wages, and they're making what an MA in Critical Theory of Men's Hegemony Studies degree is worth, ie, $1.35 an hour. What will you get?

DrJ

CH, yes, and that's the point. If the schools to are on the hook for a portion of the grants if a non-payment occurs, then they may be more careful about what they offer, who gets grants, and so forth.

Danube of Thought

Gmax, my canonization of Pujols was based on his entire 11-year record, as I made very clear. And I have been arguing for over a year that he is the best right-handed hitter in history. Having the geatest World Series game in history doesn't prove it, and an 0-for-4 night doesn't disprove it. It's the whole body of work that places him in heaven with the other saints.

Charlie (Colorado)

Aren't the schools effectively insulated, at least in the short term, by not being directly involved with most of the student loans?

That's where the real creative lawyering would have to get involved: you'd have to argue something like contributory negligence on the part of the universities, or claim they were actually parties since they helped arrange the loans, or something.

MayBee

Of course they shouldn't default.
I'm really not certain most people who are seeking a remedy via Obama simply don't want to pay their student loan debts.

Unemployment among the young is high, but many of the underemployed recent college grads I know simply don't want to take the life risk of picking up stakes and moving across the country to take a good job. They'd rather stay home semi-supported by mom and dad. Now, a lot of these kids don't have loans to pay off, which is good for us. But it does seem to me there is a decreased willingness for college grads to see themselves as grown-ups.

Captain Hate

DrJ, I agree; they're in a win/win situation and nobody seems willing to call them on it.

Charlie (Colorado)

But it does seem to me there is a decreased willingness for college grads to see themselves as grown-ups.

In a nanny state, there are no grown-ups.

centralcal

Another O/T comment, but I see that the Houston Tea Party is hosting a debate between Cain and Newt, just the two of them in a modified Lincoln-Douglas style.

Jane

What remedies are available to the lenders? Attachment? Garnishment? Are the loans entirely non-recourse?

All the same remedies available for someone who doesn't pay his credit card debt. The penalty largely depends on the judge some of whom will put the loan in front of cable tv and a cell phone and some who will never make the person pay more than $50.00 a month.

The lawyers who do this stuff tend to walk into court with about 50 files at once and there is a default issued on every one of them. Around here it is Wednesday afternoon. I've only been around a few times during that session and not in years, but I have never once seen a debtor show up. I have no idea how those lawyers make any money at all.

Jim Rhoads a/k/a vnjagvet

How about making colleges secondary guarantors of loans for tuition to their school?

IOW, if the student defaults and the government pays off the loan, the school would pay the government all or a portion of the payoff.

Colleges should have skin in the game ISTM.

jimmyk

What we have now is a situation where people whose actual qualifications may not be enough to get a job that includes saying "would you like fries with that?" and undischargeable debts the size of a house mortgage.

I suspect most of these loans can in fact be paid off over time by the borrowers, but there is no enforcement mechanism. Sounds like a credit system designed by a government. At least with mortgages the borrowers lose the house if they default. Any education loan that doesn't involve an agreement to garnish wages (as a backup, at least) is basically a gift. And garnishing wages is not indentured servitude, since we see it in other contexts.

narciso

CAIR, David Duke, and Naomi Klein, all love OWS, what could possibly go wrong, I ask you?

Danube of Thought

I am with JimRhoads. It galls me to think of the Harvard endowment at the same time the taxpayer is bearing part of the students' tuition and the University is at no risk at all.

MayBee

ISTM easing/modifying the terms of repayment if necessary is the best solution.

Jimmyk- yes yes to your 2:45

jimmyk

I like the idea of putting the university partly on the hook too. Maybe that will get rid of all the ethnic studies majors.

Captain Hate

O/T Tammy Bruce just reported that a poll (Gallup?) results show that 2 to 1 are willing to replace the Electoral College with a straight popular vote. Allowing that anybody can disagree on any topic, that strikes me as a failure of primary schools to effectively teach civics and exactly why the EC was put in place. Substituting for an in depth discussion are sound bytes/indoctrination by the MFM.

Ayers and his ilk are way too close to victory on this; if they haven't actually achieved it.

MayBee

State Universities complicate things a bit, no? The taxpayer would be on the hook either way.

Appalled

centralcal:

It'd actually be good to see Cain in that format. Maybe Cain could do the same with his friend Romney. (I think a Perry-Romney debate would be a snooze fest, dominated by attack ad fodder)

What the GOP needs to consider is getting away from the reporter driven debates. Politicians running for office do have the right to address their own issues -- and that's often more interesting than what the NYT-led media is thinking.

Danube of Thought

That Harvard endowment now stands at $32 Billion. Hmmm...a one-time levy, to hold down the crime rate down in Flint?

jimmyk

But absent time machines, what'r'ya gonna do?

Governments can change the rules in the middle of the game. That's part of what you get if you play ball with the government. See "Social Security" or "IRS".

Sue

So, why should a government backed student loan be treated differently than money you owe the IRS? It follows you to the grave, too.

MayBee

I wonder how much the housing crisis has affected how people pay for college/pay off student loans. The option to refinance and use the equity has been eliminated for a lot of families.

centralcal

Appalled: I just wish FNC would carry it, I bet it would get huge ratings. As it stands now, however, it doesn't sound like it will get any TV coverage.

Jane

How about making colleges secondary guarantors of loans for tuition to their school?

Best idea yet.

Captain Hate

O/T Headline @ AoS New Libyan Ruler Proposes More-Radical-Than-Expected Islamic Law

Raise your hand if you didn't see that coming. Why are only State Dept people raising their hands?

narciso

Milbarge and Fitzhume, put your hands down.

Melinda Romanoff

Chaco-

The owners of MBS would really, really not enjoy that type of debt haircut, especially since it is the rare bank that still holds mortgages originated on the books.

It's a bigger problem than just being between banks and mortgagees.

Janet

We were sure idiots to buy a house we could afford on one income, with a 30 yr mortgage, with a big down payment....and it appears we were also idiots to have savings accounts for our kids college funds that we put $100 for each every week. We are idiots.

Stephanie Road Warrior Seeking Roadkill

As another JOMer with a kid in college and who recently explored all the options for how to fund it, that is exactly why our daughter is playing golf in college.

She isn't in golf for the LPGA, but to get the college to pay for part of her costs of college. If she hadn't gotten the academic scholarship and the athletic scholarship, she would be at a JUCO. $35 a year reduced to $5 put the private college near the same price point for the local JUCO. Not a hard decision to make at all.

There are thousands of athletic/music/art avenues that are not taken each year; because, students don't realize those avenues are available to them. A golf score of 95 will get you to a Div 3 school, a score of 90 will get you to a Div 2 school and a score of par will get you to a top golf school. As long as your goal is the education, finding someone else to fund that education is the proper approach even by using athletics, chorus, music, or art which go wanting for the funds available.

In our case, the money out of pocket will be further reduced next year as she tried out for chorus (and made it) and it offers scholarships, too. Plus she gets elective credit hours for chorus. Win-win.

She did take out the max student loan for this year but with an eye to leveraging her freshman grades and chorus into more money from the school for next year. She will only need about $2K in loans next year (and possibly 0 out of our pocket) to pay what the academic and golf scholarships are covering now.

Seems like a no brainer to me to find a hobby and leverage it against the college's need for title 9 requirements or other needs (diversity for ex) to extract money from the bloated administration and get a quality degree.

I might add that her golf program is a start up first year program and they had funding for 8-10 golf scholarships and only got 5 takers - 3 went unfilled. Multiply that by many college programs at the D2, D3 and NAIA and there is money out there - if you are willing to leverage a hobby and do a litle more than just show up for classes.

Gmax

St Albert of Budville, is a miracle or two short in beautification process at the moment. The future saint Neffie the Happy One saw to that with 99 MPH effectiveness.

pagar

"No one should harbor any illusions that every problem created by government can be solved."

The problem government created: Elections cost too much.
Related factors: A Democrat allegedly stole millions.

Government solution suggested. Let people give more money to the Democrats who stole trillions so they can be reelected.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/10/22/us-campaign-california-fraud-idUSTRE79L1S120111022?feedType=RSS&feedName=politicsNews&rpc=22&sp=true

My recommendation: Quit reelecting politicians who steal trillions.

Bonus question? Has any modern politician left office poorer than they entered if they did not spend it on a reelection campaign?

MayBee

There is absolutely nothing wrong with taking out student loans. They are a good choice for many students.
The problem is in taking out the loans with no intention to work toward repaying them, and with no judgement about what the student is getting for the money.
What you are getting yourself into is knowable in advance. Why we have to run around and try to solve this problem - to make those who aren't trying to get out of those into idiots (as Janet says)- is concerning to me.

It just seems like a typical liberal person problem. Oh, I did this thing that had totally foreseeable consequences, but now I'm in a bind. And you don't want me to just suffer, do you? You have to help me make it right. What kind of heartless selfish bastard are you?

Clarice

Re putting colleges on the hook:

That would make them more selective about
(a) who they admit. Imagine what the AA community would make of that!

(b) That would mke them more selective about what courses of study they would permit students to major in.
Imagine what al the area studies and airy fairy course lovers would do with that!

What if we permitted govt backed college loans only for areas of study for which there could be shown a national need. I expect the nursing, medical, engineering , physics and chemistry schools would be full and the basket weaving in Mesopotamis courses not so much.

Melinda Romanoff

I would also note that a full-time Americorps volunteer can get loan forgiveness, as well.

Clarice

I think working for someone on the Hill also forgives your loans.

I also think we have made the path to a medical or law degree too lengthy. Elsewhere undergraduates mbegin their work on those degrees, I suppose they won't be as "well rounded" but a not broke doctor who knows little of music appreciation may not be the worst thing.

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Wilson/Plame