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November 22, 2011

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Sara (Pal2Pal)

From his position he didn't even need to hold any lead on JFK. A quite poor shot could hit that target nine times out of ten with a rest.

Then why have so many sharp shooters failed when attempting to duplicate Oswald's shot using the same type of weapon, with a slow moving target, and wind conditions as equal as could be duplicated.

From what I've read, even those who don't fail, need more than one or two attempts before success.

I can't argue it can't be done because obviously it was done or JFK wouldn't have been buried with a bid hole in his head and his brains splattered all over Jackie's pink suit. But, I don't see any duplication tests that are successful 9 out of 10 times.

Jack is Back!

pagar,

One of the factors not discussed about Texas and its economic status compared to everyone else is its a right-to-work state. 90% or more of heavy construction, refinery and pipeline work is done open shop (non-union). The only time you see union work is if it is federal money which triggers Davis-Bacon.

When you compare right-to-work states to unionized states you find they are doing much better economically, lower unemployment and greater productivity. The map is basically the south, North Dakota to Texas in a North-south axis and the mountain states.

Rick Ballard

Matt,

Here is an example of what I was talking about. As you can see, there are absolutely no indications of any risk whatsoever involving the major money center banks. Each one of them is paying just a tiny bit more every day to insure itself against the negligible risk that a counterparty may take a little more time to make good on its debts than the contracts actually envision.

There's only 1 hour remaining in the sure thing Thanksgiving Week super rally. What an easy call that was.

Sandy Daze

JiB - Many Thanks for the Commander in Chief's, a/k/a President of the United States of America, Thanksgiving Day Proclamation. Well said, well intended. No longer well believed.

Mel - Thnx for FT link, as some have mentioned it is all bund to me, but it does not sound good. The John Deere news does sound good, but I do not know enough of the background. I do know farm equipment wears out, must be replaced. Incentives to buy before the end of the Fiscal year etc may have played a role in the tremendous surge in sales. Now, if heavy equipment was being purchased across the board (e.g. Caterpillar, International etc) I might be more convinced that Deere's success was not just a one-off. Until I know more, I remain skeptical that Deere's success is a (what is it called--?) leading indicator in the rebound of the heavy equipment industry.

NK - I disagree with you that Voldemort is incompetent. IN his paradigm he is succeeding beyond his most wild expectations. What is it about "fundamentally transform" that is not occurring? In my paradigm (and I suspect most JOMO), he is not fulfilling his responsibilities as CINC--but that DOES NOT MEAN that he is not succeeding at accomplishing what he is attempting to do, i.e. the destruction of America.

BR - Thanks for the "Friday" quotes. I'm interested int he rest and would not be surprised if there was not one which said that for a nation to continue to flourish, the citizens must believe in the rule of law (similar to the courts reference). Once trust in the system is broken, well it is a metastasizing cancer in the body politic. Nationally and for that matter internationally (e.g. Climategate 2.0) we are beginning to believe that nobody in leadership positions is playing by the Rule of Law, rather they are playing by the Law of Rule. Once this bond of trust is broken, it is very hard to recover.

Rick Ballard - I strongly support your statement from what, a month or so ago, when you said you wanted as many candidates to stay in the hunt for as long as possible, potentially right up to the convention next August. Could not agree more strongly.

Warning: HARSH WORDS FOLLOW:

Voldemort and his wife are grifters. I'd call them trailer trash, even white trash (although as a Caucasian of Northern European extraction calling anyone white trash might open me up to charges of being an elitist). No, Voldemort and his missus are like Jack Spratt who could eat no fat and his wife who could eat no lean, betwixt he two of them they lick America's platter clean. In America's case, they are users and abusers.

They disgust me with a passion I have never felt against any other elected official.
They are dirt on the bottom of my shoes.

~~

OMG~ABO,
Sandy

Rick Ballard

"They are dirt on the bottom of my shoes."

Sandy,

That's not quite dirt yet. I'd recommend leaving the shoes outside until you can pressure wash them - don't worry, there is nothing on earth that will bother them.

Rick Ballard

"They are dirt on the bottom of my shoes."

Sandy,

That's not quite dirt yet. I'd recommend leaving the shoes outside until you can pressure wash them - don't worry, there is nothing on earth that will bother them.

NK

Sara-- the reenactments -- the honest ones anyway-- always confirmed the ease of hitting the target, the ability of a trained rifleman to squeeze off the shots from a carcano, and for trained shooters, NOT trained snipers to hit the moving target. The legitimate debate for years surrounded the path of the "single bullet". That was explained easily when re-enactments got the angles right-- i.e. Connoly was seated below and to the left of JFK on the middle jump seat. This "magic bullet" nonsense relied on Connoly being level and directly in front of JFK. That was a false assumption.

Strawman Cometh

Duplication tests? The movie itself has such a test, where one of the characters attempts to get off three shots from the same model rifle (Mannlicher-Carcano) in 5.6 seconds. Jim Garrison times the shots, and pronounces it "Between six and seven seconds."
Two problems: Timing the shot sequence in the movie shows it to be actually 5.6 seconds. Timing the Zapruder film indicates the three shots took 8.6 seconds.
Reminds me of Al Gore unable to read his own graph.

NK

Strawman-- even Benji acknowledges Ollie Stone's movie is mythology -- hell Ollie Stone acknowledges his movie is mythology.

Melinda Romanoff

Sandy-

Have some CAT data and some Joy">http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-11-23/joy-global-set-to-return-50-more-with-komatsu-after-quadrupling-real-m-a.html?cmpid=yhoo">Joy Global bits.

Melinda Romanoff

Ooops.

Dave (in MA)

It was several years ago, but I remember reading somewhere that a higher percentage of Komatsu's equipment is made in the US than Deere's is. Some folks in a local town were up in arms because the public works dept. had bid out for some Komatsu equipment instead of Deere, but it turned out the equivalent Deere machines were from overseas and the Komatsu machines were made here.

matt

ain't it simply amazin' Rick? As long as no one defaults on their CDS's there's nothing at all to worry about.

The suggestion to stop lending to Europe seems to be taking hold around the world. The German auction would seem to indicate a limited appetite for even the most stable debt on the continent even as a placeholder.

The Japanese were at almost negative interest rates back in the 1990's and had massive public spending, which further crippled the government's budget and today makes that economy highly unstable in the current environment.

So when the Germans have tested the limit of the appetite for Eurodebt and we know that negative rates do nothing for economic revival, what then?

With everything else going on, I think we're coming much closer to the schwerpunkt than even Roubini thinks. The US economy may survive simply because it is the least corrupt and most transparent of an incredibly corrupt and utterly opaque global economic system.That said we're still going to get hammered.

Sandy Daze

Mel - Nothing quite like a D-9 to do a job that needs doing.

This Komatsu is a beautiful thing too:

So, Mel, please tell me what these data points mean to you.

Is it good or not good?

ABO~OMG,
Sandy

NK

Matt-- unfortunately, I think you may have come upon another simple truth.

Porchlight

Once, long ago when I was a lowly graduate intern, I came to work at the Texas State Archives one day and saw a big archival box on my desk. It had recently been shipped from some address in Washington, D.C. that I didn't recognize. It didn't look like anything I was supposed to be messing with, but...

I put on my cotton gloves, looked around to see if anyone was looking, then opened it and peeked in. It was a man's suit jacket and shirt with a very visible bullet hole in each. I quickly slapped the lid back on.

Come to find out, when the archivist arrived, that it was the suit John Connally wore in the limo. It had been sent to DC for ballistics work - apparently a new technique had been developed that could test bullet direction from the fibers of the fabric. I never heard if the tests were conclusive.

Tante's inspired me about the gravy, but she forgot the celery inside.

Just take the fucking cranberry sauce out of the can.
===========

Soylent Red

I never heard if the tests were conclusive.

Porch,

I can help you out with that: John Connally was definitely shot.

All you JOMers...

An early Happy Thanksgiving to all since I will be away from the computer (hopefully) all weekend.

BTW...there's always room for seconds.

Sara (Pal2Pal)

NK: I'm posting on the fly as I'm traveling, but I think you may have addressed your response re: single bullet theory to the wrong person.

My general attitude about the JFK assassination has been thru the years that I don't really care one way or the other, since JFK is still dead, killed by someone, someway with a bullet or bullets.

I've always been more interested in knowing who ordered the kill than who or what actually carried out the kill.

No, I do not think Oswald acted alone. Yes I have always assumed that the mob was behind it.

I always thought it was hinky that most of the official info surrounding the assassination was sealed in the archives with a 50 year restriction. That must have seemed like forever in 1963-64, because, who knew or cared about details of anything 50 years before that in 1913. I'm sure the family and those interested in coverups thought it would be the same in 2013.

Who could have anticipated the electronic communication and 24 hour news world we have now back then? Newspapers can no longer bury stories, the networks are now a shadow of their former selves with virtually no power to mold public opinion today. People live longer and stay tuned in longer as well.

And who in 1963 would have ever predicted that we would have a president who hates the country he leads and who thinks that the only option is to destroy her? And who in 1963 would have ever predicted that this country would openly support and advance the communist agenda as we are seeing with the OWSers, we saw with John Kerry and his Winter Soldiers and trip to Paris, or with Bill Clinton and his college-age trips to the USSR to bad mouth America's Vietnam participation. It would have been unthinkable.

Sara (Pal2Pal)

And one more thing, who could have predicted in 1963 that EVERY SINGLE THING in life would become political, right down to what foods we prefer to consume.

Janet

Happy Thanksgiving to you too, Soylent.
I got another letter from the Marine I'm sending stuff to....it makes my day. A short note on a scrap of paper. Just wonderful. I think I told ya'll that he is a LCpl now.

Very interesting about the archive box, Porchlight.

Jane

Happy Thanksgiving Soylent! I hope whereever you are you will have some fun.

Porch, can you find out?

Thomas Collins

That's quite a story, Porchlight. As gruesome as it would be, I wonder whether if a grad intern saw that today, he or she would be tempted to take a cell phone picture and post it on Facebook!

Happy Thanksgiving, Soylent. Enjoy your vacation from the computer!

NK

ThomasC-- picture/post? That's a lock with today's kids.

hit and run

Happy Thanksgiving Soylent!

Sara (Pal2Pal)

I wonder whether if a grad intern saw that today, he or she would be tempted to take a cell phone picture and post it on Facebook!

Or Twitter and I think you could bank on it happening.

Dave (in MA)
It was a man's suit jacket and shirt with a very visible bullet hole in each. I quickly slapped the lid back on.

Come to find out, when the archivist arrived, that it was the suit John Connally wore in the limo. It had been sent to DC for ballistics work - apparently a new technique had been developed that could test bullet direction from the fibers of the fabric.

The bullets traveled from outside the clothing toward Connally and not the other way around. ;-)

Rocco

Hmmmmmmm Porch

Oswald said he changed his shirt after leaving his apartment to go to the movie theatre. Other Depository witnesses also identified the color of Oswald's shirt as reddish in color while he had been arrested after the Tippit murder in a white shirt. Strangely, a tuft of COTTON FIBER found in the rifle butt found in the Depository matched Oswald's white shirt, the shirt he was wearing at the time he was arrested, not the shirt he wore at the Depository that morning. This suggests evidence was planted.

Cotton gloves you say? The plot thickens!

http://www.scribd.com/doc/41186380/JFK-Preview-Ch-3

Janet

Since becoming a political junkie, I've really been enlightened as to how sloppy important items/documents are kept.
I guess we are lucky Connally's items didn't end up in someone's pants or at a building site somewhere.

centralcal

Happy Thanksgiving, Soylent!

Jack is Back!

Do they still sell rides in a suicide-door Lincoln Continental convertible (like the one JFK rode in) in Dallas and take you past the old Depository Building? I always thought that was the both the pinnacle of free-market capitalism and poor taste at the same time. When I was there is was all Japanese tourists taking the drive.

By the way, the greatest trivia question ever asked: What was the title of the books packed in the boxes on which Oswald hide behind on that fateful day?

Benjamin Franklin

"I can help you out with that: John Connally was definitely shot."

Indeedy. That crazy U-turning, stop-action round got Connally.

Good catch, Soy....

Danube of Thought

Oswald's first shot missed, probably being deflected by a traffic light that obstructed the line of fire just as he squeezed the trigger. His second shot wen through Kennedy's neck and struck Connally in rhe back. The third shot exploded Kennedy's head.

The elapsed time between the first and third shots was eleven seconds. It was all laid out quite conclusively on the Nat Geo Channel a few nights ago.

Very easy shots; any trained. Marksman could do it with ease.

narciso

Stone, is a tool, a vapid self absorbed son of a stockbroker, whose previous job, when
he served in the post war, was as finance chief for the DeGaulle regime, which was the one who sent the first expedition to Indochina, so there's a touch of displacement
as to was responsible, for the great crime

Dave (in MA)


One of the classic photoshops.

Danube of Thought

I should add that the time between the first and third shots appeared to be shorter in the Zapruder film because Zapruder didn't film continuously.

Oswald's fingerprints, and his alone, were on the Mannlicher-Carcano.

Oswald, a loner who had sought to make a life for himself in the Soviet Union, attempted to assassinate a right-wing US general, and been arrested in New Orleans for passing out Fair Play for Cuba literature, acted alone. He was not ordered by anybody to do anything.

And yet today Frank Rich resurrects the revolting theme seized upon by the MSM at the time: what really killed JFK was the "climate of hate" fostered by the right wing.

Benjamin Franklin

No, just John Foster Dulles and assorted happy travelers.

Jack is Back!

Could global warming have saved JFK?

Lee Harvey Oswald admitted that he lived in Minsk and Moscow, loved the country, the people and its form of government but left because "it was too damn cold".

It is people like Al Gore that is going to get some future leader killed.

/OWS symbolic syllogism in practice.

Benjamin Franklin

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Foster_Dulles

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allen_Welsh_Dulles

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prescott_Bush

The Ties, that Bind.

Porchlight

Jane, I'll look it up and see what I can find. This would have been in 1999 if that helps.

Obviously everyone knows the general direction of the bullet, but the exact angle of the bullet entry was the subject of the tests.

For the record, I believe that Oswald was the only guy firing a weapon at JFK that day, but whether or not he conspired with others beforehand, we may never know.

Sara (Pal2Pal)

You can act alone and still have that action influenced by others. Take any wannabe and let him/her know that certain actions would be held in high regard. You don't even have to do this directly. It is easily done by making sure that kind of talk is something he hears. Mob bosses don't give wannabes direct orders that could come back to implicate them. They let it get out on the grapevine that Person X is a thorn in their side who needs to go away.

I don't think Ruby conspired with anyone, but he certainly believed that he would be a hero if he took out the most hated man in America. Oswald was probably influenced in this way, perhaps by those with no ties to anyone or very possibly by those who wanted the result we got.

We have a similar situation today that could easily become a reality:

Unless things change and Obama can run on accomplishments, he will have to kill Romney,” said a prominent Democratic strategist."

If this becomes a common meme and some unstable guy gets a lucky shot off, I think we can say that we have situation where investigation is warranted to determine who is really responsible in addition to the lone looney gunman. No?


Barbara

The testimony of Agent Clint Hill on the shots that were fired is curious. He heard the first shot from the right and to the rear. The second shot had a completely different sound, and he said that it came from the right but couldn't say it came from the rear. (see Testimony of Clinton J. Hill - LUN)

Mr. SPECTER. I believe you testified as to the impression you had as to the source of the first shot. To be sure that the record is complete, what was your reaction as to where the first shot came from, Mr. Hill?

Mr. HILL. Right rear.

Mr. SPECTER. And did you have a reaction or impression as to the source of point of origin of the second shot that you described?

Mr. HILL. It was right, but I cannot say for sure that it was rear, because when I mounted the car it was--it had a different sound, first of all, than the first sound that I heard. The second one had almost a double sound--as though you were standing against something metal and firing into it, and you hear both the sound of a gun going off and the sound of the cartridge hitting the metal place, which could have been caused probably by the hard surface of the head. But I am not sure that that is what caused it.

Mr. SPECTER. Are you describing this double sound with respect to what you heard on the occasion of the second shot?

Mr. HILL. The second shot that I heard; yes, sir.

I'd be interested to know what those of you who are experienced with fire arms think of Agent Hill's observations.

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Wilson/Plame