Sunday Morning Open Thread

Here we are.

Comments

[Cecil Turner]

Via Instapundit, OWS bigwigs are staying at luxury hotels. Ahh, self parody . . . it's the richest kind.

[narciso]

From the last thread, an illustration of rse's point about the methodology of unknowledge;

http://english.ucdavis.edu/people/directory/natbrown

[narciso]

Actually the whole coffee klatch is deeply absurd,

http://english.ucdavis.edu/courses-schedules/graduate/seminars/

[Clarice]

Would the world know of or miss at all the closing of UC Davis?

[Benjamin Franklin]

Good cops, bad cops. Just like any other group of people.
The biggest problem for the good cop is how to keep himself from conflict with his peers when he sees crap like this. Good people don't raise their voices as much as they should.

http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2011/11/pepper-spray-brutality-at-uc-davis/248764/

"Less than two months ago, it seemed shocking when one NYPD officer cavalierly walked up to a group of female protestors and pepper-sprayed them in the eyes. The UC Davis pepper-sprayer doesn't slink away, as his NYPD counterpart did, but in every other way this is more coldly brutal. And by the way, when did we accept the idea that local police forces would always dress up in riot gear that used to be associated with storm troopers and dystopian sci-fi movies?

If you watch the whole clip, you see other police officers beginning to act "human" in various ways -- taking off their riot helmets, being restrained rather than unbridled in use of force, a few of them even looking abashed or frightened as they walk off.
'

[Benjamin Franklin]

Ever notice how Occupy has more signs deriding Obama than Republicans? It's a bi-partisan financial crisis, in case you didn't notice.

http://www.thenation.com/article/164349/how-wall-street-occupied-america

"During the prairie revolt that swept the Great Plains in 1890, populist orator Mary Elizabeth Lease exclaimed, “Wall Street owns the country…. Money rules…. Our laws are the output of a system which clothes rascals in robes and honesty in rags. The [political] parties lie to us and the political speakers mislead us.”

She should see us now. John Boehner calls on the bankers, holds out his cup and offers them total obeisance from the House majority if only they fill it. Barack Obama criticizes bankers as “fat cats,” then invites them to dine at a pricey New York restaurant where the tasting menu runs to $195 a person.

That’s now the norm, and they get away with it. The president has raised more money from employees of banks, hedge funds and private equity managers than any Republican candidate, including Mitt Romney. Inch by inch he has conceded ground to them while espousing populist rhetoric that his very actions betray."

[narciso]

That is not to say I totally approve of the behavior of the campus police, but one wonders
when Van Jones propagated anti police curriculum in nearby schools, when the Code Pinkers were suggesting fragging officers in Iraq, did they speak out, rhetorical question,
I know.

[boris]

Narciso, their pomposity insists upon itself ...

Science and Technology Studies is designed to facilitate the analysis and synthesis of science, technology, and medicine in a way that actively creates connections between the varieties of perspectives and concerns [OMG] in the humanities and the sciences. The STS major takes science, technology, medicine, and their social, political, economic, and cultural contexts as its objects of study. As such, the STS major draws on the research programs of faculty in a wide range of departments, including american studies, anthropology, economics, environmental science and policy, history, philosophy, political science and sociology.

[Don't worry no hard math like algebra where a negative plus a negative is positive.]

Students in STS pursue a broader understanding of science than is available within traditional science majors [buncha clueless geeky nerds who took calculus] and is also suitable for students in the social sciences interested in interpreting science, technology and medicine as part of society and culture.

No wonder they all think they know more than people with math skills.

[Benjamin Franklin]

As to Meedia, there are good journalists and bad journalists.
As to which is which; well, that's a matter of opinion-lol

ttp://mediadecoder.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/11/17/protesters-shutting-down-the-subway-depends-on-what-you-watch/#more-78165

"Much of what is said on television about the Occupy Wall Street movement is opinion. Some is factual. And sometimes, it’s hard to tell the difference.

On Wednesday morning, as protesters tried unsuccessfully to shut down Wall Street, the anchors for the Fox TV station in New York City said several times that the protesters were also planning to “shut down” the subway system in the city later in the day. The anchors discussed no evidence of such a plan, however, and some protest organizers have said that no such plan exists, that the goal is to gather at various subway stations and hand out fliers.

Asked about the sourcing of the station’s information, a spokeswoman for the Fox station, WNYW-TV, said, “It’s been reported elsewhere and we addressed it this morning during this interview with New York City Deputy Mayor Cas Holloway.” In the interview, Mr. Holloway said the city was “advising New Yorkers to stay informed” about possible subway disruptions.

“This is a big deal,” the Fox co-anchor Greg Kelly said as his newscast started at 7 a.m. Wednesday. “We have thousands of protesters that have indicated they are going to try to shut down the subway system as well, and occupy 16 transit hubs across the five boroughs.” Mr. Kelly and his co-anchor, Rosanna Scotto, spoke of indications of a “shutdown” plan three other times that hour.

[RichatUF]

You wear riot gear when dealing with scabies loused rioters. Scabies-good grief.

[Benjamin Franklin]

ttp://mediadecoder.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/11/17/protesters-shutting-down-the-subway-depends-on-what-you-watch/#more-78165

,

[Benjamin Franklin]

http://mediadecoder.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/11/17/protesters-shutting-down-the-subway-depends-on-what-you-watch/#more-78165

apologia

[MayBee]

UC Davis has a very strong science program, and the students I know who have chosen to go there have chosen it for that reason (generally with an eye on med school).

The thing is, these students are getting an excellent education at a fair price, subsidized by the taxpayers, the benefactors of the school, and their parents/loan providers.
I don't know who they are railing against-- the people who are subsidizing their education?

You note there is no Occupy Stanford or Occupy USC, which I'm sure are schools most of the UC Davis kids also applied to. For only $60,000 a year they could have gotten an equivalent education (at USC).

If they are concerned about cost and equal opportunity, there are a number of Cal State programs they could have gone to for a lower cost.

Overall, I'd say students who have time to participate in pointless sit-ins aren't being pushed enough at their schools, and someone is wasting money on them.

[narciso]

The dogs that don't bark are the ones that often bite:

http://www.verumserum.com/?p=33359

[Benjamin Franklin]

"No wonder they all think they know more than people with math skills."

That would be-you?

[Benjamin Franklin]

http://mediadecoder.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/11/17/protesters-shutting-down-the-subway-depends-on-what-you-watch/#more-78165

holy moly

[boris]

"UC Davis has a very strong science program"

Maybee, if that is in reference to the quoted material from narciso's link ...that course is not part of a "very strong science program".

[narciso]

'Follow the money' was the advice given by
'Deep Throat' supposedly,

http://wattsupwiththat.com/2011/11/18/dr-james-hansens-growing-financial-scandal-now-over-a-million-dollars-of-outside-income/

[Danube of Thought]

I see we already have the usual dosage of clutter today. I'll check back tomorrow.

[MayBee]

No, boris, it isn't in response to narc's link.

[narciso]

I was taking on the 'Critical Theory' component, which much like 'Critical Legal
Studies' that Obama feasted on, is internally
contradictory.

[sbw]

Clarice, your Pieces is a breathtaking piece of journalism.

Collecting the pieces together puts the problem in compelling focus.

[Benjamin Franklin]

He's a bigger crybaby than Bohner. Pathetic danyoob.

[MayBee]

UC Davis is ranked by US News as #38 in National universities and #8 in Public Universities.

It is ranked 8th for Bio Engineering, and has well regarded Med and Engineering grad schools.

A blurb from US News about its popular programs:

The most popular majors at University of California--Davis include: Psychology, General; Biology/Biological Sciences, General; Economics, General; Agricultural Business and Management, Other; and Organizational Communication, General.

I don't know which students are protesting, but overall UC Davis does attract very science-minded students.

[Clarice]

Thanks,, sbw. I am certain if you care to reprint it AT would give you permission. I certainly give you mine.

[boris]

Well MB as the second comment about UC Davis and science I wondered. Narciso, for me the folly of 'Critical Theory' carp is most evident when they try to talk about Science and Technology Studies. But that might be because I have degrees in "traditional science majors" like physics and engineering.

[Clarice]

I have no idea about the rigor of the science offerings at UC Davis. It has, however, established itself as probably the most openly anti semitic college in the US.http://www.adl.org/campus/campus_incidents.asp
That signals to be a hatred of academic rigor and scholastic efforts among other things.

[Clarice]

**signals to Me****

[MayBee]

Here is the US News Public University Rankings for 2012--

http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-colleges/rankings/national-universities/top-public/spp+50

There are idiots on every campus across the country.
As I said, these kids are getting a great education at an excellent university for a fair price (if any universities have fair prices these days) These protesters are muddled, some of the faculty is muddled, but they aren't a reflection of the entire school.

[sbw]

The Washington Examiner, according to Glenn Reynolds, says,"A growing number of Obama’s 2008 supporters now feel the president has failed them, analysts said."

. . . When it is not Obama who has failed them, but their own hubris -- their own shallow thinking trying to prop up ideas that experience has shown to be bankrupt.

[DrJ]

I'll echo MayBee's comments about Davis. It is one of the few UCs where I would send an undergraduate student.

Davis got its start as Berkeley's ag school, and it retains those roots. It has the best Viticulture and Enology school in the world (and it will soon be there in brewing), its vet school is in the top three in the country, and it is very strong in agricultural biotech. It graduates more biologists than any school in the country.

The medical center is quite good, as is the overall rest of the hard sciences and engineering. I've worked with many profs and the support services (like the proteomics center) and I've enjoyed those collaborations.

It does have the usual area studies in the liberal arts, but those seem to be a part of any University these days. And they do have an "eco awareness" that borders on insane. One example is the new winery they opened: it is carbon and water neutral, and has zero emissions. So no there are none of the great smells that accompany wine fermentation.

[Clarice]

I'm sure you are right, MayBee. Just as it appears the police first asked the OWSs to remove their tents and then sprayed only those who sat down blocking the road so that the tents could not be removed. Those who moved away or stood away from the road so that the unlawful occlusion of the roadway could be cleared were not sprayed.

[Ignatz]

It's actually quite easy not to feed the attention seeker's unfortunate needs once you quit doing it.

Hello. My name is Ignatz, and I was (not am) a Danaholic.
Join me on the bandwagon, won't you, where every day is a little brighter, a little better and a little more free of cant.

[Jack is Back!]

UC Davis is famous for its environmental programs and for its Department of Viticulture and Enology.

Known through-out the wine world.

[boris]

"And they do have an "eco awareness" that borders on insane."

ISTM the insanity may have metastasized a bit. Also, nobody has said anything bad about their (actual) science and engineering, only the "insanity" parts.

[Jack is Back!]

DrJ,

If it wasn't for those darn Capchas I would have beat you to it regarding the wine school. I know a number of winemakers that graduated from there.

[Clarice]

Heh. Iggy, welcome to Co-Dependants No More.

[Mark Folkestad]

Okay, I watched the whole video clip submitted here, and read some of the accompanying text. I am baffled. I only see a professional group of LE personnel carrying about their duties, clearing openly defiant protesters, at the behest of university officials, after giving repeated warnings. The lead officer did not just, out of the blue, start spraying people. The individual takedowns were done in standard fashion. This was not a case of numerous Rodney Kings being clubbed.

[Mark Folkestad]

Urk. Take your choice. Either "carrying out" or "going about" their duties.

[DrJ]

JiB,

I've had the pleasure of working with a number of the V&E faculty too. Wonderful people overall. The Food Science department is outstanding too, and they share the same building and many core facilities.

[Thomas Collins]

I hope all college football fans got the chance to enjoy the final few minutes of the Baylor-Oklahoma game, the culmination of meltdown weekend. If Arkansas tops LSU and Alabama beats Auburn next weekend, the SEC West will be decided by a tiebreaker system that puts the Internal Revenue Code to shame for complexity. See LUN for a short article that summarizes the tiebreaker. And a tip of the hat to SEC West aficionados: you now can plausibly claim that your division houses the top three teams in the country.

[Jack is Back!]

Did anyone else note the height of irony or chutzpah (take your pick) of having Nat Brown's Open Letter published on the website of one America's best known domestic terrorists and ghostwriter to The Won? But then the letter, like the writer, is just more left-wing whining and victimhood at the hands of those despicable people of authority. Can't have authority when we have nano-technology to explain in iambic pentameter, can we?

[Benjamin Franklin]

. "Good people don't raise their voices as much as they should."

Oh! Did you think it was just the cops I was talking about?

It applies to all y'all.

[Thomas Collins]

Happy Birthday, DrJ!

[Cecil Turner]

I'm still trying to figure out why I should regard a bunch of protestors with their hands out as anything other than the usual panhandlers. (Except they seem remarkably well-off for those who feel they're entitled to others' money.)

Okay, I watched the whole video clip submitted here, and read some of the accompanying text.

Same thing I saw. If that's what OWS types consider "brutality," they've obviously never seen the real thing.

[centralcal]

It looks like AP is trying to erase the Democrats and their leader, Obama, who endorsed OWS. Poor AP just ain't what it used to be - too much alternate media competition.

[Rick Ballard]

"but they aren't a reflection of the entire school"

MayBee,

The enrollment at UCD is 33K. The #Occupoopers don't amount to 1%. The fatuously flatulent faculty involved don't amount to 1% either. The stench won't dissipate until after the elections but hopefully the arrest records for the <1%ers will remain for a bit longer. I'm sure HR people would appreciate it if they did.

[MayBee]

I'm still trying to figure out why I should regard a bunch of protestors with their hands out as anything other than the usual panhandlers. (Except they seem remarkably well-off for those who feel they're entitled to others' money.)

That's just it, Cecil. Any student at any UC has a wonderful opportunity if they wish to take it. On any of the campuses, there is a chance to get a great education leading to many options for the future, at a price subsidized by the taxpayer.
Why some choose to waste that opportunity is beyond me, and when they waste that opportunity AND think they are entitled to something more it irritates the living daylights out of me.

The faculty encouraging the students are actually self-interested, are they not? They should be ashamed.

[MayBee]

I'm sure HR people would appreciate it if they did.

Ha!

I'm actually much more irritated by the way cops around UC campuses will falsely pull students over because their tail light is "out" to see if they can get a drunk driving arrest.
If the driver hasn't been drinking-- surprise!-- the taillight also seems to be working again.

That's more irritating than seeing a bunch of protestors being treated roughly when they choose to act against the wishes of the police.

[matt]

My father taught at UC Davis briefly before he died.

Like many of the other UC schools it has its slacker departments. I believe that is a requirement from the Board of Regents (and why the hell do we have Regents in a democracy anyway?).

Wayne Thiebaud was an art prof up there. He's famous for his renditions of ice cream cones, cakes, and donuts. A nice guy.

The school of viticulture was heavily subsidized by the Mondavi family, who were wiped out when their stock lost a lot of its value in @ '01. The school is highly rated, but has also been accused of being too formulaic and occasionally committing the odd "boh-ner" as the French would say.

Towards the end of his life Mondavi steered some of them into doing a lot of work on really interesting varietals and he did so co-op work on his vineyards.

Unfortunately, when Consolidated Beverages took over I believe they ripped up the plantings of a lot of them and the movement towards some incredible niche wines really took a hit.

Davis is not for everybody, but it is a great school, as is Cal Poly SLO, which is quietly one of the most advanced electronics engineering schools in the world.

[MayBee]

I'm fascinated that OWS seems to be in provoke the police mode on the exact same weekend Tahrir Square is on fire (literally) again.

[Sara (Pal2Pal)]

That’s now the norm, and they get away with it. The president has raised more money from employees of banks, hedge funds and private equity managers than any Republican candidate, including Mitt Romney. Inch by inch he has conceded ground to them while espousing populist rhetoric that his very actions betray."

BF: No wonder the country is upside down. Who would believe you would see the above coming from The Nation, of all places.

I think I agree with you from yesterday that the left is getting more disgusted with Obama than even we at JOM.

As to what happened yesterday, all I can say is, those who want to absolve the cops, do not know what Calif. law enforcement is really like. They are trying to compare here with NYC or safe places like Minnesota or any of the other 49 states. I've lived in 9 states and I've never seen another state with law enforcement trained to be assholes, like here in this state.

I think you are in San Bernardino county and if you still live in that county I have great sympathy as it is one of the very worst.

[DrJ]

The school of viticulture was heavily subsidized by the Mondavi family

That's very true. The Robert Mondavi Institute houses both V&E and Food Science. Across the street is the Mondavi Center, which is an outstanding concert hall. That has nothing to do with Viticulture, of course.

Shame that they didn't sponsor a good recital hall.

If you've not visited recently, Matt, a new vineyard has been planted next to RMI -- it is huge.

[Clarice]

I', curious as to why any purported (lower case) democrats would prefer street demos and that sort of bullying the voters by strikes and inconvenience to using the ballot box if they really are the 99%.

[Rick Ballard]

MayBee,

The Grand Defecators off the #Occupooper Supreme Soviet have been prepared to take advantage of the occurrence of typical Mohametan crowd control tactics to draw false parallels since the Bowel Movement was just a hash dream of the political studies professors who came up with it. Professors direct the Brown Shirt cadre to amp up the bass with the detritus and -viola- Police Brutality!111!!

When I see a baton with teeth embedded in it I'll consider doing more* than laughing at the posers.

*"More" in this instance may consist of feeling mild annoyance or wild approbation, depending.

[Jane]

Happy B-day Dr J! Great Pieces Clarice! Happy Sunday everyone!

[Gmax]

Clarice it has already been established that math is not these social science majors strong suit.

[pagar]

A breath of sanity from England.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/prince-philip/8901985/Wind-farms-are-useless-says-Duke.html

Of course, that does not stop the ripoff.

"It emerged last year that electricity customers are paying an average of £90 a year to subsidise wind farms----

Plus much worse to come! Then people wonder why consumers get poorer and poorer as money is sucked out of England. "Two-thirds of the country’s wind turbines are owned by foreign companies, which are estimated to reap £500million a year in subsidies.

[bgates]

It has, however, established itself as probably the most openly anti semitic college in the US

The hell it has. I was there for four years and never saw any, and your link of incidents at colleges around the country has nothing about Davis besides a bit of pro-Palestinian propaganda timed to coincide with Holocaust Remembrance day.

[Gmax]

mild annoyance or wild approbation,

Put me down on going with the shooter here, that would be wild approbation.

[JM Hanes]

The header on the Science and Technology Studies website pretty much tells you all you need to know:

Is there any part of your social, personal, medical, or political world that is not transformed and challenged by science and technology?

Pretty funny when you think about it. Social Studies, which got a PC status upgrade when they were rechristened as the Social "Sciences," have been given yet another PC upgrade as.... Interdisciplinary "Studies." It's still a humanities major of course, which, in emblematically "liberal" fashion, treats science as a demographic, not a discipline at all.

[Sara (Pal2Pal)]

Davis is not for everybody, but it is a great school, as is Cal Poly SLO, which is quietly one of the most advanced electronics engineering schools in the world.

I have two friends who are CalPoly grads, one an electrical engineer, the other a mathematician who works on NASA projects. Both of them so darn smart, they make my head hurt.

[Gmax]

Cowboys draw first blood 7- 0 versus the Occupy DC Redskins...

[matt]

Clarice, a lovely piece today! And all the best Dr J!

One day we need to go over the hill and have a few glasses. I know a guy who know some guys, as they say.

[Rocco]

Our (untenured professor) Nathan Brown has started a wish list on Amazon.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/registry/wishlist/3T6Z62WIDOER7/ref=ord_cart_shr

[Charlie (Colorado)]

Would the world know of or miss at all the closing of UC Davis?

Yes, they have a brilliant Ag School and Vet School.

[JM Hanes]

Happy Birthday, DrJ!

May you continue to pose a challenge, and hopefully transform, the world of budding sociologists, for many, many years to come.

♥

[Rick Ballard]

Rocco and Mark,

My thanks to both of you for clearly identifying the policies and standards upheld by the UCD Police during their vermin protestor removal.

[Charlie (Colorado)]

[Don't worry no hard math like algebra where a negative plus a negative is positive.]

Actually a negative plus a negative is still negative. It's like a credit card balance: if you have a balance of $100 and change another $100, you owe $200, not $0.

[Gmax]

There is not a college campus in the country that is not populated with these mushyheaded liberal profs teaching unrigorous and totally worthless degree programs. Remember the disciplines that were banging pots and pans at Duke? Yup, same song second verse.

[Janet]

Happy Birthday, DrJ!!!

[Clarice]

bgates, I'm not there of course, but the complaints of harassment etc seem to date to the last few years, long after I'm sure you attended there.

Chaco, the negative thing is a joke at BF's expense--he once indicated a negative plus a negative was a positive.

[Charlie (Colorado)]

Same thing I saw. If that's what OWS types consider "brutality," they've obviously never seen the real thing.

Clearly you've never been tear gassed or pepper-sprayed.

[MarkO]

Or, had someone misspell your name.

[Charlie (Colorado)]

Chaco, the negative thing is a joke at BF's expense--he once indicated a negative plus a negative was a positive.

Oh.

I guess I missed that one.

[JM Hanes]

Great column today Clarice. I'll be spending Thanksgiving in a liberal lions' den, and just yesterday, I was wishing I'd spent more time putting together a compendium of political cheat sheets, so I could start cramming for my orals. Et voilá! I've clipped your whole primer.

In Janet's words, you make me brave.

[Ignatz]

--Clearly you've never been tear gassed or pepper-sprayed.--

I have on more than one occasion and cannot characterize it as "brutality" by any stretch of the imagination.

[Clarice]

Glad to be of service, jmh.

[Gmax]

Victoria's Secret pulls the embarrassing flub of a t shirt already. If you had bought one, it would therefore probably be worth some money, like a double strike penny has value...

[Mark Folkestad]

Charlie, I got caught in tear gas back in the Seventies, as I was trying to be a student at the University of Minnesota, as the cops tried to control rioting mobs that were tossing Molotov cocktails and blowing up transformers. I also got beaten up by "peace lovers" and watched a cop I couldn't get to beaten to a pulp (and sent to the ER and, afterward, the ICU). We should sit down and have a nice chat about appropriate force and the definition of brutality sometime.

[Ignatz]

I think DocJ may have mentioned that UC Davis also has an excellent medical center located in Sacramento rather than in Davis.
Probably the best in the north half of the state outside of the Bay Area.

[Mark Folkestad]

By the way, I watched as flying goon squads were disgorged from buses with license plates from New York and California. Campus maps were handed out to the passengers as they disembarked, to shorten their orientation time. I noticed that protests didn't happen simultaneously across the nation. That's because they only had enough goon squads to cover a few campuses at a time.

[Gmax]

Well I am going to plead guilty on the tear gas part ( but carried pepper spray as a mailman and know all about it ). My son went through basic training and part of that is tear gas in an enclosed room without a gas mask. Seems to me that the Army would not do that if there was any lasting negative effects. My son said you produce mucus that you did not know you had...

[centralcal]

I have to chime in to agree with all the positive comments about many of UC Davis's programs - Medicine, Engineering, Ag, Veterinary, etc. I worked with many civil and water resource engineers who were alums of Davis.

I also agree about CalPoly-SLO. Probably about 1/3 of my children's friends (back in the day) who were aggies or from big farm families attended that campus.

In both groups, all were conservatives to boot, except one - the Water Resources engineer with the Phd - who came from Pakistan at about age 11. He was himself "conservative," just not sure of his politics - ha ha.

[Mark Folkestad]

My favorite story about the anti-war goons in the early Seventies involves the mobile lab operated by the biology department at the U of M. It was a converted Winnebago, and it bore the name "Freshwater Biological Institute" on the sides, but on the rear, they only had room for "F.B.I". The goons spotted it from the rear and fire-bombed it.

[Sara (Pal2Pal)]

I see we already have the usual dosage of clutter today. I'll check back tomorrow.

Yea! One disruptor diva gone for the day.

[East Bay Jay]

Clarice's Pieces linked at Real Clear Politics front page this morning.

[Sara (Pal2Pal)]

My son went through basic training and part of that is tear gas in an enclosed room without a gas mask. Seems to me that the Army would not do that if there was any lasting negative effects. My son said you produce mucus that you did not know you had...

I don't know anything about the Army, but the Navy requires this type of training for their fire control teams and officers. My husband had to do it at Alameda and he got thru the exercise and then was sick as a dog for a week after. His eyes swelled nearly shut and he had to bathe them constantly with, I think, a boric acid solution. (Memory fuzzy). It is extremely unpleasant.

But even that training is moving through a smoke-filled room where they pump the gas in to fill the space. This is not the same as taking a direct hit to the eyes or mouth from a source just an inch away.

I have never experienced either tear gas or pepper spray, but I did make the mistake one time, after cutting up some chile peppers, of rubbing my eye and instantly it felt like someone had stabbed me with a hot iron. It was hours before I was able to open my eye, that it stopped tearing up, and that I could focus again.

[Jack is Back!]

ChaCo,

Anyone who has gone through military service knows about tear gas. In fact, air crews go through it more than once even during SERE training. Also, for NBC training.

Its irritating as hell and you can't wait to get some water on your face but it is far from brutality.

Admittedly, I have not been pepper-sprayed and it may be or may not be worse and more irritating than tear gas. But it is a lachrymatory agent just like tear gas and supposedly has the same effect on the eyes and tearing.

Just cannot see it as brutality.

[Sara (Pal2Pal)]

/i off

[Sara (Pal2Pal)]

Sorry

[Clarice]

Ooops.. I went back and checked. Mead had it right--Chelsea was hired by NBC. I had it wrong when I said "ABC". I've asked the editor to correct it.

[pagar]

Posted by: Clarice | November 20, 2011 at 01:01 PM
"I', curious as to why any purported (lower case) democrats would prefer street demos and that sort of bullying the voters by strikes and inconvenience to using the ballot box if they really are the 99%.+"

From a commenter at this Naked Capitalism LINK
http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2011/11/george-washington-if-only-they-enforced-bank-regulations-like-they-do-park-rules-we-wouldn%E2%80%99t-be-in-this-mess.html

"rotter says:
November 19, 2011 at 8:15 pm"

"we cant vote for the right politicians until we have a political system that isnt privately owned by finance capitalists(both foreign and domestic). The Occupy movements are your only option WRT Democracy these days. If you value Democracy, the last thing you want to do is vote in a US election. Get out in the street if you can. If you cant, support those who can."

Wonder what the CPUSA thinks of that advice?

[Sara (Pal2Pal)]

Just cannot see it as brutality.

It is brutality when you do it one inch away from their eyes and mouth while they are passively kneeling on the ground. It is brutality when you pull the clothing away from their faces to get the spray into the eyes directly.

What you and other service members experienced was a dispersal facility. I doubt you took a direct hit into your eyes and mouth, at least that isn't what my husband's training consisted of and he went through the training more than once as a DCA, responsible for the ship's damage control/firefighter teams.

[Jack is Back!]

Grossman scores. Boys 10 - Skins 7

"hail to the Redskins,
hail victory,
Braves on the warpath
Fight for old DC"

[centralcal]

Clarice, another minor correction - the video you link in Pieces was done by a femaile reporter of Daily Caller, not by Jon Stewart.

[Clarice]

Ah, thanks.. CC.

[Mark Folkestad]

I just reviewed the video again. The distance involved was approximately 2.5-5 feet, not an inch. Perhaps there is other video I missed? The protesters had been repeatedly told to leave, and had linked arms to actively resist. They were not kneeling submissively. I'm not trying to pick any fight, but I'm just not seeing what some folks claim to see.

[Jack is Back!]

Sara,

If you have ever experienced tear gas whether direct hit in the eyes or face or in an enclosed facility, it doesn't matter. Same effect.

I don't understand your differentation?

[Porchlight]

Wayne Thiebaud was an art prof up there. He's famous for his renditions of ice cream cones, cakes, and donuts. A nice guy.

I'm a big fan of his - glad to hear he's a nice person.