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November 20, 2011

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Charlie (Colorado)

Do those cops work for the NYPD? On the other coast?

Is what's brutal in New York City not brutal in Davis?

Charlie (Colorado)

For brutality, the ol' "I know it when I see it" seems the best test . . .and I'm not seeing any.

"There are none so blind ...."

Charlie (Colorado)

I've got to go buy dishes for Thanksgiving.

Sara (Pal2Pal)

proving that whatever he sprayed 'em with, it wasn't very strong.

Several of them had to go to the hospital, some where coughing up blood. They were all trying to pull their clothes up to protect themselves, when the police weren't pulling the clothes away.

Gmax

Is what's brutal in New York City not brutal in Davis?

Lame response but the more telling is no apology for being quite wrong about pepper spray. Small person does not recognize when they are wrong and try to fix it. I would definitely go shopping...

Jack is Back!

ChaCo,

I didn't know that the UC Davis Police Department was a unit of NYPD. Learn something everyday.

But Charlie, you most certainly know that pepper spray, as well as Mace, is regulated differently by state and local jurisdiction (including countries). The NYPD has their policies and I guess the UC Davis police theirs. But I haven't heard of any hospitalizations or medical emergencies from the UC Davis usage.

I much prefer water cannon usage in situations like this pumped up to about 200psi. It can move the human chain like nothing else.

Gmax

Its pretty naive to believe anything that comes out of the mouth of Alynskyites. If there is a medical report that says they were coughing up blood not mucus, please provide it. Otherwise, I know of no such symptom of pepper spray.

Jim Miller

DrJ - Thanks for the explanation on the water neutrality.

As far as carbon goes, I was not thinking of CO@, but compounds like C2H5OH. Pretty hard to make wine without ethanol, I would think. And I would bet that there are hundreds of other carbon compounds in wine besides that one.

Rick Ballard

OL,

There's definitely not going to be a deal. I'm talking about post committee action. Perhaps Boehner could offer up an extension of the FICA holiday in trade for Obamacare implementation funding? That would be a very effective stinger, IMO.

Jim Miller

CO2, of course, not CO@.

sbw

>How should they proceed?
>
>Same way they usually do it:
>grab them, drag them away.

I think the answer is: Propofol.

And for blog misbehavior in extremis, the answer is: Peel off enough layers from the velvet glove down to the iron fist to get the perp's attention ... and if that ends up being displaying the perp's tooth x-rays, I can't get too worked up over it. The idea that community disruption is a first amendment right is simply absurd.

For now, we can't call a cop to have the perp pepper sprayed and are obliged to clean up the park ourselves.

rse

HB Dr J. I know you will come up with a properly innovative way to celebrate.

On higher ed generally, there is a great deal of pressure being brought to radically change most institutions. Some are fighting back. Most are shifting in ways that are hard to see unless you get the template. Which you will when I get done. Other well known, hard to get into schools, very expensive have virtually no transmission of knowledge going on. The students are there to become politically radicalized and acquire desired worldview.

I really cannot write any faster. Already managed tendinitis. My point in meantime though is if any of you have or know someone who has that expensive, life changing decision to make in next few months, I can be contacted offline and I will tell you if the school has come up as a red flag.

Research universities are the worst especially if state won a Race to the Top award. Certain state systems have agreed to be test sites for a reimagining of what higher ed can be. Everyone other than Hillsdale and Grove City are under huge pressure. Please do not assume anyplace is safe. I could do an entire, fascinating, and horrifying book just on higher ed. I am addressing it some and have enough for that 2nd book already.

It's Bruno Latour who is behind those Science Social Studies and Tech degrees.

Ignatz

--If any of you ever got your heads out of your nether regions, you would know that I don't support Dana...--

Some consider even my nether regions cute, but regardless, I wasn't asking if you support Dana.
I'm just trying to get a direct answer to whether you consider him one of the "disruptor divas". Do you?

Gmax

The committee has not met as a whole in over a week. The Democrats dont want a deal, they get to devastate our self defense, which is probably making them do backflips. We should pull out of Germany and Japan and threaten to do so in Korea and see how Zero reacts. But given that revenue and spending bills are not subject to filibuster how is the decimated Democrats in the Senate going to stop the Republicans from reversing all of this and pushing through real cuts?

I am coming around to us needing President Gingrich, he balanced it once, he can do so again.


DrJ

Jim,

Yeah, wine without ethanol would not be much fun, would it?

Of course they capture ethanol and other carbon-bearing "stuff." But it was proudly trumpeted that evil CO2 would be captured as well. Pretty silly in my mind, particularly for a small-scale facility.

And of course the fermenters use wireless control -- the first in the world!

I wonder how much all of this added to the facility cost.

Jane

Boy I hope all these OWS people keep it up until the democrat convention. I bet they could beat 1968 numbers and violence too. it's so nice we have a president to egg it on. Where is the convention anyway?

Sara (Pal2Pal)

could we imagine a situation where their sidearms could have been taken away and used against them?

Perhaps, had this crowd been anything but passive until the spraying and when the students still never moved in, just started chanting loudly. Did you see the size of the weapons those cops were pointing at everyone after the spraying? Big bad officers in riot gear for a bunch of students milling around on their campus quad and participating in a silent march, on walkways. They weren't even on a street blocking traffic.

And why were the cops there? Because university officials told them to be there before the protest march even began. The university asshats were trying to make something happen, not the students, if the reports are accurate.

Gmax

Charlotte, Narth Carolina

Clarice

Charlotte North Carolina, Jane.

Oh, and Michelle got booed todayhttp://tv.breitbart.com/nascar-crowd-boos-michalle-obama/

Jack is Back!

Sara,

What does this mean:

" None of you want to do for yourselves what DOT took it upon himself to do to Dana and his family. You don't even see anything wrong with what DOT did. You are all hypocrites in this regard, since you won't or don't do the same for yourselves or your favorites."

I don't understand what you mean about the last sentance? What is it we won't or don't do for ourselves or our favorites? And what was it that DoT did or threatened to do that was so awful or illegal? I guess I am missing something here or maybe I don't understand all the history.

Jane

BTW if anyone is inclined to go on an NRO cruise, 2012 will be the year. It is far too pedestrian for some, and most of us could care less about the cruise part, but as far as hanging out with like minded people who like to party a bit, it's a great time. And if we win that election you won't want to miss it.

And if we lose, as Jim Geraghty said yesterday at breakfast, we just will continue on and never come home.

Gmax

racists no doubt about it, probably the same folks who shouted slurs at the Black Caucus...

Cecil Turner

"There are none so blind ...."

Let's review the bidding. You tried "Clearly you've never been tear gassed or pepper-sprayed," which is false and more than a bit silly. Then you went with the NYC generic pepper report, to which I provided a specific observation from the guy who wrote the Baltimore manual. Now you're going with this? I generally respect your reasoning skills, and find your posts informative, but this is neither well reasoned nor persuasive.

Several of them had to go to the hospital, some where coughing up blood

The report linked above said:

Nine students hit by pepper spray were treated at the scene, two were taken to hospitals and later released, university officials said.
I've seen lots of people exposed to CS. The reaction is usually considerably quicker and more violent. MOreover, the agent sticks to clothing, so those coming in contact with the victims get a secondary exposure. Here, the protesters barely react, the police have no protective gear and manhandle the protesters, and they don't react at all. My conclusion remains: it obviously isn't very strong.

Sara (Pal2Pal)

That was a good one.

Because as a Mormon married in the Los Angeles Temple, I wouldn't know about such things and report them accurately, right GMAX?

Just for the record, those going on a Mission are the exception, something I pointed out during the original discussion.

Rick Ballard

I hope everyone watched the Chris Matthews link posted by c-c. No more tingle. He makes some very good points about BOzo trying a 'virtual' campaign without every acknowledging the very high probability is that the Chicago trash grifters are just mopping up dough prior to the big blow off.

Gmax,

I like the idea of a EUro pull out. Why just Germany?

centralcal

Great link to Michelle Obama at Nascar, Clarice! MOTUS comments should be a hoot to read.

Gmax

Sara you are a laugh a minute. I know you dont ever realize it and that part makes it ever so much more hilarious. But let me commend you, you have left off the poor poor pitiful me act for about a week. For that we are all thankful. Now get a room with your boyfriend, its more irritating to us than pepper spray. I am coughing up blood!

Gmax

Cuz I forgot we had bases in Italy too. Let the damn grifters in Eutopia pay for their own defense.

Jack is Back!

BTW, she got booed in South Florida, at Homestead, where the race was. Obama needs Florida and especially South Florida. Another good sign - these are not your average Carolina NASCAR fan. Wonder if narciso went to the race?

Last one of the year - only Carl Edwards or Tony Stewart can win the Cup so it is very tight. Edwards has the lead as of this lengthy red flag stoppage.

Clarice

As expected the Spaniards kicked Aznar and his party out..way out.

Stephanie

Despicable me reporting in safe and sound. I made the atl-charleston trip in 6 1/2 hours. Whee!!

Clarice

Spain:
http://pjmedia.com/tatler/files/2011/11/spain31.jpg

Pops

Ben Franklin: ""Less than two months ago, it seemed shocking when one NYPD officer cavalierly walked up to a group of female protestors and pepper-sprayed them in the eyes.""

What protestors nowadays don't understand is that police are actually trained to deal with protesters who do not folow commands in ways that don't require the police to physically roll around on the ground with the protestors.

Why should any cop want to spend their day rolling around with an HIV infected, crak addict at OWS? They don't pay them enough to potentially get hurt.

That's why modern police actually have things like pepper spray and tasers that don't require them to use thing you don't like ,,,ahh, for instance choke holds, etc. to get people to comply with a lawful order.

If you fail to folow an officers instructions, guess what, they are free to use force to get you to follow instructions, Benny, get over it buddy.

If you can't stand the peer spray, stop pooping on the street, Benny!

Sara (Pal2Pal)

I don't understand what you mean about the last sentance? What is it we won't or don't do for ourselves or our favorites? And what was it that DoT did or threatened to do that was so awful or illegal? I guess I am missing something here or maybe I don't understand all the history.

DOT in one of his martini-induced moments took it upon himself to publish all Dana's personal info including pictures of his former spouses. I challenged all those here who think DOT did a wonderful thing to do the same about themselves, but so far no takers.

I don't know about illegal, but it was wrong. I seem to be almost alone in this, although there are a couple others who I think agree about it being wrong. I called DOT on it and he got all high-horsey and attacked me. And as you can read, every time it comes up, attacks on me for bringing it up start popping up. I'm accused of, let's see, wanting to sleep with Dana, told to get a room with him, wondering why we just don't get together and go away, etc. Not one of them get that it isn't about Dana, it is about the principle of attacking someone by publishing their personal info for the express purposes stated of trying to get a person fired from their job and to mock the look of their spouse(s).

None of them ever concede that wrong is wrong, no matter who the target is. And it is all because they hold some stupid grudge going back several years. Whereas others, like DOT and some of the other men here, get stupid drunk and come on and say stupid things, that is okay, no matter how hurtful, mean, or disgusting those posts might be. It is excused because, well, because they don't have cooties like Dana.

Sara (Pal2Pal)

JiB:

Here is a perfect example.

Sara you are a laugh a minute. I know you dont ever realize it and that part makes it ever so much more hilarious. But let me commend you, you have left off the poor poor pitiful me act for about a week. For that we are all thankful. Now get a room with your boyfriend, its more irritating to us than pepper spray. I am coughing up blood!

The childishness is so high school, but GMAX doesn't see it and wait, in one, two, three, you'll see our head cheerleader, CCal, chime in too.

Jack is Back!

Clarice,

The exceptions being Seville and Barcelona - the lost residue of left wing academia and of course, The Catalan Problem. Not Aznar but Rajoy. Let's see how long the rating agencies, bond holders, central banks, Germany, and the press give him to work a miracle.

centralcal

Whereas others, like DOT and some of the other men here, get stupid drunk and come on and say stupid things,

Talk about "attacking" people.

CC with the POM POMS

Oops - just for Sara

Pops

The simply fact is that these radical protestors hate pepper spray and tasers and anything else that allows the police to get them to comply with a lawful order without having to angage them physically and potentially get heart.

You give me the choice to Pepper Spray/Tase a radical protestor or wrestle around on the ground with them, they are gonna get Sprayed/Tased everytime.

Where is it writtent that the police have to put themselves in harms way just to satify Benny Franklins dreams of pooping in the street.

Sara (Pal2Pal)

But let me commend you, you have left off the poor poor pitiful me act for about a week.

Be careful GMAX, I know where you live and thanks to Stephanie's advice on how to be a moocher, I have a brand spanking new electric wheel chair and I might just lie in wait to run you over. You'll know it's me because I'll be flying the American flag and the Don't tread on me flag on the back. ::rolling eyes::

Sara (Pal2Pal)

Talk about "attacking" people.

Stating a fact with no name is an attack? Sheesh!

Gmax

I seem to be almost alone in this,

That would serve as caution to most, but to your credit, you did not let it stop you in full scold.

But you and DOT have at least one thing in common, at least according to you. That would be saying stupid things. You could fill an encyclopedia with magestic stupidity, most of it due to a tendency to have these Emily Littela moments where you go off half cocked, react emotionally with few if any facts and then are humiliated once again.

Just curious, why on Earth would you hang around with foliks who are so despicable as to not denounce behavior that you find beyond the pale? Is the urge to scold the overwhelming desire in an otherwise miserable existence?

Gmax

majestic

Sheesh

Extraneus

Thanks to Rocco for first explaining to us about the use of pepper spray on the passively resisting, and for posting the video of a cop being sprayed during training, which allowed us to see the actual effects of the stuff without having to experience it ourselves.

One of the great things about this place is that there always seems to be someone with real authority on things the rest of us only read about.

Of course, we also have experts to correct other commenters -- who, for example, may have posted on the same thread that they hold degrees in physics and engineering -- on the addition of negative numbers.

On balance, it's worth it.

Pops

It is soooo easy to counter the affects of police pepper spraying you.

Want to know the secret Benny??

Here it is: COMPLY WITH THE OFFICERS DIRECTIONS.

See, it's that simple.

Jim Rhoads a/k/a vnjagvet

I agree with Cecil. The UCD event was not police brutality IMO. The Baltimore guy was much more convincing to me than Sara and CHACO's combined efforts. But if they think it was brutality, that's ok by me.

After reading Clarice's great Pieces, I am more discouraged by the current political situation and the state of the nation than I have been for a long time. I am afraid we have reached the tipping point because everyone is at the trough. It's no longer just the less well off.

This quoted passage from the GE annual report is tragic and I fear all too true:

The interaction between government and business will change forever. In a reset economy, the government will be a regulator; and also an industry policy champion, a financier, and a key partner.

The era of big government is not over. It seems like it is just beginning.


Sara (Pal2Pal)

Several of them had to go to the hospital, some where coughing up blood

This was my comment, not Charlie's. And it was based on first hand reports posted last night.

You seem to believe the university officials. I tend to rely more on those who were there, reported first hand, and in some instances recorded it.

If even one had to go to the hospital, that is one too many considering it was a passive non-violent confrontation ginned up by the cops.

Clarice

Interesting that just earlier the OWIES were comparing themselves to the demonstrators in Tahrir Sq. who today are getting beaten up for real and their tents burnt.

Maybe the UC Davis guys would like a free trip there to practice passive resistance with their Cairene brothers.

Gmax

Holy cow that map is a Sea of light blue. Aznar party is bright red I assume. The area in the far NW is that the Basque region?

Sara (Pal2Pal)

Officers involved in pepper spraying put on leave.

Pops

"Sara: Several of them had to go to the hospital, some where coughing up blood. They were all trying to pull their clothes up to protect themselves, when the police weren't pulling the clothes away.""

Whiney cry babies. They decided they preferred being sprayed to complying with the legal authorities instructions. If any protestor, or cop was hurt, it is DIRECTLY the protestors fault for failing to follow the law, period, end of story.

This may come as a shock to you, but just because your a whiney liberal doesn't mean you don't have to follow the law, like everyone else. And if it is decided that you need to disperse and you have been told and you don't comply, because some how you think you are more high and mighty then the legal authorities, then take you pepper spraying and shut the hell up.

Guess what, us 99% would follow the police instructions, its the 1 percenters that get maced.

Ignatz

--DOT in one of his martini-induced moments took it upon himself to publish all Dana's personal info including pictures of his former spouses. I challenged all those here who think DOT did a wonderful thing to do the same about themselves, but so far no takers.--

Did not Dana make every bit of that information public by posting or allowing his employer to post it on the web already?

Is Dana a "disruptor Diva"?
It's not a trick question. I'm just trying to understand your perspective.

Clarice

The Basque region is in the Northeast of Spain along the Bay of Biscay.

Clarice

Seville and barcelona are the two red spots on the map.

Seville is the Southern one. Barcelona the upper eastern one.

Pops

Sara: ""If even one had to go to the hospital, that is one too many considering it was a passive non-violent confrontation ginned up by the cops.""

And if they were sitting home filing out job applications, this wouldn't have happened.

This isn't rocket science, if I park my car in the middle of I-95 or the Beltway at Rush hour and sit passvely....guess what, they are going to force me to comply with their orders for me to disperse. They will probably even spray me rather then want to wrestle around with me.

Just because you are sitting quietly/passively, doesn't mean you are automatically in the right.

Remember as Obama and his liberal friends have told us regarding the requirement to buy health insurance...being passive and not purchasing it requires we be PUNISHED.

Gmax

So the purple is what kind of party? Catalona apparently. Never been to Spain but I kinda like the music...

Sara (Pal2Pal)

This should gladden the hearts of all those who were sprayed in the Army. NOT:

The US Army concluded in a 1993 Aberdeen Proving Ground study that pepper spray could cause "[m]utagenic effects, carcinogenic effects, sensitization, cardiovascular and pulmonary toxicity, neurotoxicity, as well as possible human fatalities. There is a risk in using this product on a large and varied population".[9]
Stephanie

Whereas others, like DOT and some of the other men here, get stupid drunk and come on and say stupid things,

Whereas others, like DOT and some of the other men here, get stupid drunk and come on and say stupid things,


Facts or assertion? Not only reading comprehension issues but a definite need for a dictionary and a cluebat. Maybe DOT can be persuaded to cough up a few if his ill gotten lawyer bucks for some remedial education for self outed moochers. But then you've taken a measure of the man and I think you could tease out the answer based on your own biases.

Sara (Pal2Pal)

POPS: Have you watched the video. These were out of countrol OWSers like we've seen in Oakland and elsewhere. These were college students on their own campus, not blocking traffic, passively kneeling, completely submissive, when the cop decided to go down the line and spray them in the face. They weren't being aggressive, nor had they been before it started. The were on a silent processional to the university offices. Passive and non-violent. And now the cops have been put on leave, under investigation, which is as it should be.

Captain Hate

Hmmm, this looks like a good day to have been away from the computer....

Jack is Back!

Sara,

Did you watch that video at your link?

They were expecting the pepper spray. They wanted it. They had hoods up and bent over to protect their faces and eyes. This is a setup. Plus like Cecil noted it was low count dispersal much further away then what some have called "right in their eyes point blank". Not even close. In fact, if any thing it was used to discourage active resistance to arrest.

Nothing there to change my mind. I agree with Pops, this whole thing needs pespective. This is a staged political event.

Sara (Pal2Pal)

were NOT out of control

Gmax

Careful Pops, Sara has decided you are WRONG. So now you will be subject to a jihad complete with whining if you dare to respond! You ask for it, cant help you now...

Ignatz

--Hmmm, this looks like a good day to have been away from the computer....--

Heh. I'm thinking that more and more every day.

Rick Ballard

Jim Rhoads,

Look on the bright side - we're too damned broke to continue paying welfare to GovMo or GovEl or you name 'em. The can's done fallen off the end of the road so there's no more kick'en it.

Cecil Turner

Did you watch that video at your link?

I doubt she read it. Especially because it's verbatim the same story I linked earlier.

Pops

Sara (Pal2Pal),

I said repeatedly that the protestors were passive, but what does that have to do with anything?

Being 'passive' is not at issue. There is no law, rule or legal finding anywhere that says the police can't force you to comply with their orders just because you are 'passive'.

Please explain you legal reasoning why being 'passive' enjoys some special place in the world causing the police to not require you to comply with their instructions?

I hate to tell you this, but if a police officer acting under legal authority tells you do to something and you fail to comply, he can and will use force to get you to comply, period.

And guess what, he doesn't have to explain himself to you.

Being 'passive' has never been a legal excuse for failing to comply with a legal instruction from law enforcement. Never, ever.

Gmax

UNC School of Public Health weighs in with this:

Despite training-related hazards, field-use data by police departments in Baltimore, Portland ME, and Winston Salem indicate that properly used OC can be effective and provide additional safety to enforcing officers. In many instances it may reduce injuries to officers as well as to arrestees (such as fractures, traumatic brain injury, or gunshot wounds, which sometimes result when physical force or impact weapons are required). The use of OC may thus lessen complaints about use of excessive force, and civil liability and injury-related costs to governmental agencies. We believe that OC spray should remain in the armamentarium of law enforcement and corrections officers who ultimately must decide, based on standard operating protocols, when and which deterrents ought to be used in a given situation.

Assuming the officer followed order from the chain of command, we have a couple of know it all who know better than the trained law enforcement officials on the ground. Seriously.

Pops

Sara (pal2Pal),
Please do this for me, go to the White House and take the tour. Halfway through the tour, sit down and refuse to leave. Be completely 'passive' and just sit there.

Let me know what happens, OK.

Thanks

Janet

Chrissy Matthews is spittin' and sputterin' and poor Alex Witt never gets in a single sentence.

Wow centralcal! Great video link. Those insider posts might be true! Obama upstairs in his flip flops watchin' TV.

Gmax

They were coughing up blood! Surely you believe that. Snicker. Does not seem to be a symptom that I can find anywhere from OC. Must be mutants who have never been studied previously. But they are OWSers so that might actually be possible...

Sara (Pal2Pal)

Facts or assertion?

There would be no question, had you been a witness and at least two, although that doesn't include DOT, apologized within a day or two.

I have no problem with drunk blogging as long as the person doesn't degenerate to nothing but foul language and threats. If drinking loosens someone up and they are funny, more power to 'em, I say.

But, in any event, those who have been guilty of it know who they are and if you don't, I don't think it is my place or anyone else to embarrass them now about something they may have done last year or 8 years ago. But then I don't hold grudges normally, getting harder and harder around here, but as a general rule. And I am far more forgiving of personal slip ups or momentary failures than the average bear, something that seems to bother an awful lot of people. But then I prefer to be my own person and don't need to be one of the "cool" kids to feel good about myself.

Oh and thanks for the heads up on how to be a moocher. It cost me about a thou out of pocket to mooch the balance, but then every little handout helps.

Jane

I can't believe everyone is making such a big deal about the pepper spray. Hell if it had happened to the tea party, democrats would be cheering and blaming Sarah Palin. Nancy Pelosi would declare we asked for it. The media would ignore it.

I say arrest the OWS people and don't let them out of jail until they pay the overtime for the cops.

Pops

""These were college students on their own campus""

I love this, like they somehow OWN the college simply because they attend college there for a few years. A college is a business, you pay money for a service, a commodity. Its private property....It's no different then Starbucks.

Go sit passively at StarBucks for two months and lets see what happens.

Rick Ballard

The very democratic Field Marshal Tantawi had 11 mujaheddin peace loving neo-democratshumanely de#tweeted today in celebration of the continuing Arab Spring. He really knows how to bring a breath of charnel house to a gathering.

Sara (Pal2Pal)

Careful Pops, Sara has decided you are WRONG.

POPS: I don't think you are wrong, just comparing apples and oranges and coming to less than accurate conclusions.

Gmax

I can't believe everyone is making such a big deal about the pepper spray.

Jane if it were everyone, that would be different. Its excitable girl and Chaco. And no one else that I have seen.

After all these years, I have never felt remorse for preventing that German Shepard from taking a chunk out of me. As I still recall, tail went between legs and a pitiful little whine emitted from him as he hightailed it back behind the house.

One of the neighbors came over and wanted to know where to get a can, he had had a run in or two with the stupid mutt it seems.

Sara (Pal2Pal)

I say arrest the OWS people and don't let them out of jail until they pay the overtime for the cops.

You are correct, for sure, of what the reaction would be if these were tea party people. Both media reaction and the opinions here.

These were students with a grievance they were addressing with a silent procession. To my way of thinking, and apparently to others around the media and blogosphere, this is a different set of parameters than the OWS violence that has been going on.

The cops have been put on leave, so I doubt they'll be getting any overtime. They'll be lucky to keep their jobs, if there is any justice at all.

Gmax

BTW if you ingest it, the far far more likely side effect is that it will burn, twice. One on the way in and once on the way out. Like jalapenos in a Mexican dinner...

Cecil Turner

There would be no question, had you been a witness and at least two, although that doesn't include DOT, apologized within a day or two.

Sara, I was "a witness" and I think you're 100% wrong. I also don't think the troll is entitled to anonymity while spewing abuse, nor do I think there's any doubt Cleo/BF's behavior has improved since his "outing" . . . I just think it's still not up to acceptable standards. In my opinion, DoT deserves approbation, not censure.

Sara (Pal2Pal)

Go sit passively at StarBucks for two months and lets see what happens.

First of all it was the campus quad and these students pay to have the right to be there. Second, they weren't there 2 months, more like 2 hours. 3rd, at least one article I saw earlier said the university president apologized for overreacting and calling in the riot police before the protest procession even started. And if the police were so correct, in your opinion, then why have they been relieved of duty and put on leave?

Pops

Sorry Sara, The cops will be just fine. Many people remember the good old days when the cops had to scuffle and wrestle with protestors. Those days are OVER. Police tactics now include tools that bring compliance prior to putting hands on.

There isn't a sane campus in the country that will order their police to engage hand to hand rather then use sprays/tasers, etc.

Its a brave new world.

What would have been really great is if AFTER the police had applied the pepper spray, if the police, the medics, the nurses, the doctors, etc. all decided to sit PASSIVELY and do nothing.

I am sure you would be the first to be completely outraged that anyone would sit passively by in silent protest..right?

Or would you have supported everyone if they decided to sit passively and not come to the aid of the sprayed protestors?

Gmax

A politically correct University President who wants to attend the faculty holiday parties ( almost typed Christmas parties there by mistake!). And if they are on leave, I am betting its paid leave. A vacation. I bet they are all broke up about that. Please dont throw me in that briar patch...

Sara (Pal2Pal)

Please do this for me, go to the White House and take the tour. Halfway through the tour, sit down and refuse to leave. Be completely 'passive' and just sit there.

No.

Gmax

The Duke lacrosse team was indicted too, and the University President condemned them. How did that work out again?

Captain Hate

Thanks for pointing out cc's link to Tweety sputtering away. The only thing that I'd add to what has been said is that he falls into the Camille Paglia trap of blaming "the people around him" for El JEFe's insulation. Leaving aside that he chose those people with which to surround himself, he is responsible for his behavior and, until compelling evidence is provided otherwise, it reflects how he regards others.

Pops

""First of all it was the campus quad and these students pay to have the right to be there""

Ahhh, no they don't. They have no more right to be there then you or I once they have been told to disperse.

It doesn't matter if those students were paying everyones tuition, they still have NO SUCH RIGHT.

It is kind of comical though that you sound like a rich millionaire...I paid for this, I paid, you must do as I say, I'm a rich guy, do as I say, I have special rights that little people don't have. It's cute.
--------------------------------

So lets recap. No RIGHT to be there, No RIGHT to be PASSIVE once told to disperse by police. You have any more new rights you want to create out of thin air?

Sara (Pal2Pal)

Chaco: Apparently it has been decided by GMAX that my future is with Dana and not you any more. But, you are still my favorite teddy bear.

Cecil Turner

I think it's worth pointing out these were UC Davis (campus) police.

Gmax

I am sure Chaco is glad he went shopping.

Captain Hate

GMAX, speaking of MarkO's school, KC Johnson has a post @ Durham in Wonderland contrasting the LAX situation with Penn State's scandal. Surprisingly enough, the Carolina school doesn't come off well.

Gmax

Pops they were coughing up blood!

CH I have not been to KC Johnson blog in a long time, thanks for the heads up, he was an oasis of sanity in a very jump to conclusions we dont need no stinkin' facts situation. Come to think of it, we could use him here...

Clarice

Rick, I love the phrase "detweeted"..HEH

I think DoT did the right thing, too,Cecil. I am in full agreement. All of those details IIRC were those which BF made public on his own.

jimmyk

the university president apologized for overreacting and calling in the riot police before the protest procession even started. And if the police were so correct, in your opinion, then why have they been relieved of duty and put on leave?

Haven't we seen this movie before? Cops behave reasonably but forcefully against a civilian, but because of an outcry by the chattering class, cops get scapegoated. (Rodney King, Henry Louis Gates, etc.).

University president behaves sensibly, but angers touchy leftists, goes into embarrassing apology mode (Larry Summers).

None of it means anything was improper, it's just another bonfire of the vanities.

Jane

First of all it was the campus quad and these students pay to have the right to be there.

I think it is hysterical that these students are so stupid they think they have to take over something they already own. What a joke.

BTW Sara, I've never seen DOT drunk here. I know you love making that claim, but it is not winning you any converts.

CC with the POM POMS

Captain, towards the end, Chrissy dispenses with the excuses - "he doesn't like their company" - etc. referencing Buh-rock's lack of dialog with even those within his own party.

Janet, I am sure by sunrise, Chrissy will be back under the Obama tent. However, this tape should be used throughout 2012.

Pops

http://boingboing.net/2011/11/20/ucdeyetwitness.html

Sara, here is a good interview of one of the actual protestors who was sprayed. He claims they had been protesting on campus FOR ONE STRAIGHT WEEK. You claim it was two hours. Why is he lying?

From the pictures I see, the protestors are locked arm in arm and blocking a public thoroughfare. Hardly a passive act. They alsohave written on the sidewalk (defacing public property) and there is red paid going up the sidewalk and ending at the protestors. Another Non-passive act of defacing public property.
He also has the guts toi admit (unlike yourrself), that " one guy chanted, "F-ck the police" a few times, but it died down right away"

Gmax

Did not get an answer to this, and being the curious sort I think it bears an answer:

Just curious, why on Earth would you hang around with folks who are so despicable as to not denounce behavior that you find beyond the pale? Is the urge to scold the overwhelming desire in an otherwise miserable existence?

Extraneus

Clarice, thanks for linking that DC video of the "considerably higher in the hierarchy" than 1% dude who wouldn't donate "a few thousand dollars" to the cause he champions. Glad I finally got a chance to watch that excellent video. Did anyone get the name of the reporter?

Captain Hate

Oh I agree, cc; this is uncharted territory for Tingles with his mancrush nearly as dead as his liver. The re-education camps will have to deal with this promptly.

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Wilson/Plame