Tax Brawl

Gregory Mankiw tries to bring Paul Krugman up to speed on the incidence of taxation, arguing that looking at Mitt Romney's low capital gains rate and ignoring any imputed corporate taxes paid by his underlyig investments is not accurate.  Regrettably, Mankiw is violating an old, established rule of blogging - don't come between a man and his tirade. Krugman is going to beat to death the horse he rode in on, and delivers howlers like this in the process:

If capital gains and other investment income didn’t receive special treatment, we’d be getting substantially more revenue.

Do tell.  In most cases the decision to incur a capital gains tax is entirely voluntary and is based on the decision to hold or sell an appreciated asset.  The CBO tackled this in a 2002 paper, noting that higher capital gains rates seemed to reduce the realization of capital gains, particularly in the short ru (so who's Laffing now?):

The sensitivity of realizations to gains tax rates raises the possibility that a cut in the rate could so increase realizations that revenue from capital gains taxes might rise as a consequence.  Rising gains receipts in response to a rate cut are most likely to occur in the short run. Postponing or advancing realizations by a year is relatively easy compared with doing so over much longer periods. In addition, a stock of accumulated gains may be realized shortly after the rate is cut, but once that accumulation is "unlocked," the stock of accrued gains is smaller and realizations cannot continue at as fast a rate as they did initially. Thus, even though the responsiveness of realizations to a tax cut may not be enough to produce additional receipts over a long period, it may do so over a few years.

...In projecting realizations beyond the current year, CBO gradually moves them to their historical level relative to output, adjusted for the tax rate on gains. That latter adjustment recognizes that with lower tax rates--even in the long run--realizations should be higher relative to GDP than they would be with higher tax rates.

Of course, higher realizations at a lower rate may or may not increase long-term revenue.

They also admit that the evidence on both sides is murky:

Because of the other influences on realizations, the relationship between them and tax rates can be hard to detect and easy to confuse with other phenomena. For example, a number of observers have attributed the rapid rise in realizations in the late 1990s to the 1997 cut in capital gains tax rates. But the 45 percent increase in realizations in 1996--before the cut--exceeded the 40 percent and 25 percent increases in 1997 and 1998 that followed it. Careful studies have failed to agree on how responsive gains realizations are to changes in tax rates, with estimates of that responsiveness varying widely.

...Estimates of the revenue effects of capital gains tax changes by the Congress's Joint Committee on Taxation (JCT) and the Treasury's Office of Tax Analysis (OTA) also take into account how realizations respond to tax rates.⁽⁶⁾ In 1990, when the Congress considered a 30 percent cut in the rate on gains, OTA estimated that such a cut would increase revenues by $12 billion over five years; the JCT projected a loss of $11 billion. If they had not factored in a realizations response, the two agencies would have estimated revenue costs of $80 billion and $100 billion, respectively--effectively illustrating how large a behavioral response is incorporated in capital gains revenue estimates.

What the CBO did not find was unambiguous evidence that "If capital gains... didn’t receive special treatment, we’d be getting substantially more revenue".  It looks like Krugman's personal pipeline to the truth is wide open.  And delivering Kool-aid.

SO TEN YEARS AGO... Surely we can do better than a ten year old CBO study?  Hey, be my guest, and stop calling me Shirley.  This table shows realized capital gains through 2008; the Tax Foundation tells me that the top long term gains rate was cut to 20% in 1997 and then to 15% in 2003.  Realized gains under Bush eclipsed the Clinton boom years by 2006; my quick calculation (applying the relevant top rate to all realized gains each year) is that capital gains tax revenue rose from 2001 through 2007 even with the lower rate, although obviously that is conflated with an improving economy. 2008, of course, was memorably not an example of an improving economy.

Since the lower gains rate is (casually if not causally) associated with higher revenues I don't think that data will update the CBO effort and provide conclusive evidence that raising the capital gains rate brings in substantially more revenue.

PLEASE MIND MY DELICATELY POISED BLOOD PRESSURE:  Somewhere a Krugman acoylyte is teeing up a response along the lines of "Krugman didn't say that raising the capital gains rate would raise revenue; he said that raising the capital gains rate and taxes on other investment income would raise revenue". 

Uh huh.  And if the Yakees could just sign me and Cliff Lee by next April they would be locks foe the World Series.

Comments

[Thomas Collins]

Further muddying the picture is the difference between stated tax rates, including the highest marginal tax rates, and effective tax rates (see LUN for a short article discussing this difference). With high marginal rates and a complex series of credits and deductions, the regulatory burden of tax compliance is masked, and the impact of marginal rates obscured (businesses will engage in behavior that will reduce the effective tax rate, and will be especially aggressive in doing so when stated marginal rates are high).

Unfortunately, despite all the talk, there really isn't a lot of political hay to be made by aggressively advocating low marginal rates and the elimination of most if not all credits and special deductions (I say "special" because I think most folks would allow deductions for ordinary and necessary business expenses and depreciation). Steve Forbes ran a POTUS campaign based on tax simplification, and went nowhere.

[Jack is Back!]

When Clarice shows,

Is Brendan(The Potted Plant) Sullivan still at Williams and Connolly? Can't think of a better counsel for the guy. Bob Bennett is there too IIRC.

The next argument from Krugman regarding the low rate of capital gains is that when an investor earns it he is cashing in and withdrawning his equity in the company. By doing that he is destroying the companies ability to create and or maintain (save) jobs. This is why capitalism is dirty and inhumane.

[Old Lurker]

Right you are, TC.

Many simply do not appreciate why both rates are important.

All taxpayers, corporate and otherwise, will act to minimize their effective tax rates. But that amounts to squeezing the most after tax income out of existing income streams.

Fair enough.

Marginal Tax Rates (the effective tax on the next dollar earned) is central to all capital investment decisions. Nobody enters into any new deal or new investment unless the after tax return on the investment they are considering is high enough.

So if you want growth (new deals), you darn well better pay attention to the marginal tax rates.

Now individuals have difficulty moving deals offshore because US individuals are taxed by the US on their global income. But corporations can and do shift investment and therefore income offshore all the time, largely to avoid excessive marginal tax rates on domestic income.

TC I know you know that perfectly well, but for sure the muddle has not a clue.

[Thomas Collins]

OL, the only phrase that I think could reach the muddle is, "If you tax something, you get less of it." That is, if job growth is desired, and investments that yield job growth are taxed at higher and higher marginal tax rates, there will be less job creating investment. Perhaps that is too difficult to work into a campaign slogan. But it's an iron law of human behavior.

[Old Lurker]

JiB yes, the potted plant is still at W&C.

[Thomas Collins]

The letter from Cunnigham's lawyer is linked in the article in the LUN. It is clear from the letter that if Holder is going to try to make Cunningham the fall guy, Holder is going to get maximum pushback.

[centralcal]

OL or JiB - can you tell us why he is referred to as "The Potted Plant?"

[Thomas Collins]

Tobin Romero, Cunningham's lawyer, is a young guy (at least by my standards), but is quite accomplished. See LUN.

[Thomas Collins]

Centralcal, Brendan Sullivan, who represented Ollie North in the Iran-Contra hearings, when told to be quiet by Dan Inouye during Danny's questioning of North, responded with the following:

""Well, sir...I'm not a potted plant. I'm here as the lawyer. That's my job."

[Old Lurker]

Oh CC...one of the all time great TV moments.

Congressional Hearing trying to nail Reagan for Iran-Contra. Ollie North had been granted immunity so he would reveal the smoking gun. Sullivan (the junk yard dog you would always want at your side) was counsel to North, sitting beside him under the kleig lights. Ollie shocked them all by protecting Reagan and just ground them all up and spit them out. So they then tried to attack North, finally giving counsel, who had been sitting quietly while his client tended to business, and opportunity to speak up to defend North from something. He interrupted by stating "I am not just a potted plant here!" (I am the lawyer so you have to deal with me, bub.)

Wonderful in every respect.

[NK]

I am proud that I know virtually nothing of the IRC. But I can read tables, so I do know that the combination of the globalized economy (creating a lot of asset wealth and a some high income earners,)with our tax policy (especially George W's 2003 law), has resulted in a hell of a lot of NON-INCOME taxpayers and the super rich paying a rate significantly lower than the successful working stiffs. The income for the super rich are all either cap gains (15%), or completely tax exempt muni bonds (depending on the purpose of the bond), meanwhile working stiffs who earn more than $50K, pay a higher rate. Without knowing anything about tax law, I guaranty you that many cap gains today are not the 'real' type of gains to provide productive capital to a market economy, they are mere structures to qualify under some IRS ruling to drop the rate from 38% to 15%. We are back where we were in the 1970s with tax avoidance schemes. The only beneficiaries are Congress critters selling tax breaks to lobbyists and tax lawyers. You don't have to be an OWS to oppose that. The only solution is the one smart guys like Steve Forbes and DuPont thought of 30 years ago-- flat tax. Everybody pays, everybody pays the same rate, the Treasury benefits from a growing economic pie.

[bgates]

According to Census figures, there are (or were recently) 308,745,538 in this country, and American "per capita money income in past 12 months (2009 dollars)" averaged $27,041 over the period 2005-2009.

The federal government under the Obama administration will spend roughly $3,500,000,000,000 this year. That works out to a per capita federal tax burden of $11,336 if we want to maintain the federal debt at roughly $16,000,000,000,000 and not increase it. The most regressive way to get to that number is a direct tax of $11,336 on every man, woman, and child in the United States.

Alternatively,a simple flat tax of 42% on all money income, no deductions, no credits, would balance the federal budget. Of course states and municipalities would require funding on top of that.

Balancing the federal budget with a more progressive tax system would require top rates well above 42%.

Federal spending must be maintained at a minimum of $3,500,000,000,000 forever. To decrease federal spending to $3,400,000,000,000 would make the country look like "Mad Max" if it had been filmed in Somalia by evangelical Christians. (Because they're scary.)

The solution is to make Mitt Romney pay higher taxes on investment income.

[Jack is Back!]

CH,

Do you watch the Puppets on WOIO covering the corruption trial of the ex Dem big shot?

This is ROTFLMAO funny stuff.

[centralcal]

Thanks, guys. You know, I do remember that (long ago, far away) vaguely.

[Jane]

Oh CC...one of the all time great TV moments.

It certainly was.

[Clarice]

Well, I see JIB's question was answered. I was busy looking at naughty pictures Chaco posted on FB, like this one:http://www.deltabravosierra.us/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/hadji.jpg

[daddy]

Another underdog Tea Party candidate wins an election.

Man I wish there was one of those in Massachusetts.

[Thomas Collins]

At LUN is a short clip of Sullivan's famous takedown of Inouye.

[Jane]

In 365 days the next president takes the oath of office.

[Old Lurker]

So NK, make all those muni's taxable then ask the cities & counties how that works out for them in the bond market.

And you are just wrong about how much Cap Gains is disguised "real" income, though that has become a popular rant by Progs as they attack "carried income".

And yes, that 15% cap gains rate looks low except for the fact that it is not inflation adjusted so one can pay a tax on a gain that actually was a loss when adjusted for inflation. And of course the cash that was invested had already been taxed once or twice before it was invested.

Or to repeat TC above, if that rate looks unfair to you, go ahead and double it then tell me why what was left of investment moved overseas finally.

Ask CA how taxing investment and productivity is working out for them.

[Old Lurker]

sorry..."carried income" = "carried interest"

[Jack is Back!]

Back in the day, during those hearings, I was a member of the Army-Navy Club on Farragut Square in DC. Across from the square on "Eye" Street was the offices of Williams and Connolly. It was not unusual to go to lunch in the main dining room and find The A-Team with their Client L.C. Ollie North sitting right darn smack in the middle of the room. No reason to hide in the friendly confines of the ANC.

You never saw many MFM types in the club either. Not their crowd:)

[Sara]

The Tyler Foundation, formerly the Ann and Mitt Romney Foundation, funded by Romney contributions has given approx. $7 million to charity thru 2010.

Most of the Romneys’ monetary gifts have gone to non-political causes, including more than $4.7 million to the Mormon Church, reflecting the family’s faith, and hundreds of thousands more to research on cancer and multiple sclerosis (which afflicts his wife, Ann); academics (Harvard Business School and Brigham Young University) and athletics (a variety of Olympic and other sports groups).

[Old Lurker]

great clip TC. delicious.

[NK]

OL--
Munis-- let the cities and states compete in the marketplace on interest rates. If their bonds stink, let them pay the appropriate risk premium, don't give them a special tax deal. BTW-- an extraordinary amount of muni bonds currently are not completely triple exempt, because of a partial 'private' purpose (baseball parks, concert halls, airports);

Tax Policy-- I completely agree with you about the need for a cap gains rate when there is a steeply progressive income tax. My point is the progressive income creates the need for tax rate reduction, so there ARE abuses of the cap gains rate. My complaint isn't with REAL cap gains, it is with a steeply progressive income tax that leads to abuses-- ie legal tax avoidance.

[centralcal]

TC: thanks for the clip!

[Old Lurker]

Agree on both points, NK. Particularly on having muni's not get a favored rate which just encourages more borrowing and wasteful spending.

JiB...still the best bean soup in town.

[Sara]

It was a great moment in a hearing that was several days long. Ollie wiped the floor with the dems.

[daddy]

BBC's delusional Richard Black is very happy about Obama's squashing of the XL Pipeline:

"On the face of things, Barack Obama's decision to reject the planned Keystone XL oil pipeline is quite a significant shift for a president who for the last year at least has seemed reluctant to endorse any policy with a green tinge."

"Oil industry sources said Keystone XL would create 20,000 jobs, though other studies suggested the real figure was about a third of that. What's a bit odd is that the opposite argument is hardly being heard."

Obviously there's good drugs over their in jolly old England.

[NK]

Oh BTW-- TomM -- your 15% tax rate slip is showing. I don't begrudge you high asset guys investing and earning and paying a fair tax rate. BUT, as I said above I think the combination of the globalized economy asset bubbles and the progressive income tax leads to you paying substantial fees to tax attorneys and accountants to structure cap gains. Are those structured gains economically productive? NO empirical answer to that. I'd prefer all of us to pay an 18-20% across the board Fed income tax rate for sll income, and no exemptions/deductions. Your tax lawyer will starve, but there are worse things in life.

[centralcal]

daddy: Running office errands earlier this morning, Rush was saying that the Canadians have found a way to bypass Obama and have re-routed the Keystone pipeline. Anybody hearing anything about that?

[NK]

PS-- no offense to any tax lawyers out there.

[NK]

CentralCal-- no idea what Rush said, but the facts are that in November prior to Thanksgiving the Nebraska Legislature UNANIMOUSLY passed a bill authorizing the state bureaucrats to re-route the pipeline around the acquifier. The Gov obviously signed the bill: a re-route agreement between the Nebraska EPA and Keystone XL is imminent. That does NOTHING to 'Bam-- he'll say submit the re-route and we'll study it. This whole thing is designed to study Keystone to death, until Canada sells the tar sands oil to the ChiComs, killing the pipeline to the Gulf refineries.

[Danube of Thought]

There is no issue as ripe for demagoguery as taxation. This is going to be a long, hard slog, and I hope Mitt prepares for it better than he has shown us thus far.

[Jack is Back!]

OL,

And don't forget the Butterscotch Sundae:)

Don't think the barber shop is there anymore but the barber's name was Paul and he was a chain smoker which he did while cutting your hair with the cigarette dangling out of his mouth in a long ash.

[henry]

cc: the idea was to run the domestic portion from Montana south to serve the Bakken Shale fields, cutting State (and Buffet's RR) out of the decision. The last bit to Canada can be done later. That was on Rush, but I haven't seen it anywhere else.

[NK]

DoT-- everything from Axelrod/Plouffe will be demagoguery and worse. On taxes-- solution is to tear up the current corrupt IRC and adopt the flatter broader tax proposal in the House. Mitt should say I'll pay more under the House plan, but it's fairer for everyone and better for the country. I don't know what Mitt has said to date about tearing up the current IRC.

[Old Lurker]

Yes the good old days, JiB. And what is today the main door facing the square for decades was the side door and the only door women were allowed to use (Ladies Entrance). First they wanted to vote. Then...

[centralcal]

Thanks, henry. I did hear something about Montana and Mexico - but again was running office errands, and in and out of car, so never got a full hearing of any of it.

[narciso]

It is so bvious, but someone else had to say;

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2012/01/20/keystone_madness__112829.html

[daddy]

One bgates and 7 MayBee's, in an Althouse column mentioning the Eloquence of Mitt Romney.

"Romney then raised his hand to come into the conversation, and he went into a pretty babbly sequence of words that included:

If we want people who spent their life and their career -- most of their career in Washington, we have three people on the stage who've -- well, I take that back. We got a doctor down here who spent most of his time in the -- in the surgical suite -- well, not surgery -- the birthing suite.

And:

Now you asked me a(n) entirely different question. What do you -- what's -- (laughter) --

He looks over to Gingrich for help, and Gingrich is all "Beats me. I don't know. Where are we at, John?" Romney struggles to find a track:

Let's -- let's -- let me -- let me say -- let me say one -- one of the things I find amusing is listening -- is listening to how -- how much credit is taken in Washington for what goes on on Main Street. I -- I mean, Mr. Speaker, it was -- it was -- you talk about all the things you did with Ronald Reagan and -- and -- and the Reagan revolution and the jobs created during the Reagan years and so forth. I mean, I looked at the Reagan diary. You're mentioned once in Ronald Reagan's diary. And it's -- and in the diary, he says you had an idea in a meeting of -- of young congressmen, and it wasn't a very good idea, and he dismissed it. That -- that's the entire mention. And -- I mean, he mentions George Bush a hundred times. He even mentions my dad once.

Dad! Help!"

[Jack is Back!]

henry,

Your correct. The BakkenLink would connect to the MarketLink (another name for Keystone XI inside the US border).

Now here is the dirty little secret of Keystone XI and the Obama decision not to pursue. Think about what this does to the practice of "crony capitalism" in the form the hit that Buffett and his Burlington Norther stake takes. The pipeline is already approved for 65K bpd from Bakken. It would have mainline capacity outside the tar sands bitumen for even more (double or triple capacity).

Will TransCanada now go ahead with the US portion just to serve a minimal amount of planned capacity out of Bakken or will it just give up on the project and invest in a west coast line to British Columbia to serve the Asian market. IOW's why build all that line to just capture the Bakken field's 65K bpd?

Its a win-win-win for Obama and Buffett. Obama shows his green credentials. Buffett keeps the transport market for Bakken as a monopoly and lack of supply drives the price up which supports higher CAFE standards.

[narciso]

Cynicism or derangement, I think Dr. Wornstrum is involved somehow;

http://youtu.be/sq3GGwgV7R0

[Sara]

How many who loved him yesterday will hate him today?

Gov. Bob McDonnel of Virginia endorses Mitt Romney

“Want to win the race in Nov? Vote for Romney!”

[pagar]

Might add to the tax discussion.

http://biggovernment.com/dmitchell/2012/01/20/illinois-downgrade-provides-more-evidence-that-higher-taxes-make-fiscal-problems-worse-not-better/

[henry]

JiB, Rush thinks in politics -- not in logistics. Thanks for the info on flow rates from Bakken and elsewhere. I guess the question facing TransCanada is whether Obama will be around to block the last segment.

[daddy]

"Mister Quarterback, you and your Teammates just lost the SuperBowl. What are you losers going to do next?"

"We're going to Napoleonland!"

[daddy]

Nice juxtaposition of headlines at Drudge:

1) Maryland lawmaker moves to seal border with DC to ban rat trafficking...

2) Man Paralyzed After Contracting 'Rat Lungworm' Disease...

[NK]

JiB-- I have a hard time believing ANY POTUS would so cynically violate the national interest and the economic well-being for 308Million citizens... hmm... hmmm.. OK you convinced me this one JUST DID.

[Danube of Thought]

Used to have dinner there with my mother and father in the late 50's and early 60's, JiB. A very elegant place. I think it was probably my first experience with fine dining.

[narciso]

Well you see from my earlier link, how almost Dr. Evil level perfidy is involved,

[Clarice]

You know, MayBee is such a darn good debater we ought to get her to run for something.

[bio mom]

Sara: But the "Gingrich foundation" has given thousands of dollars to Tiffany's! So surely he deserves the nomination more.

[Neo]

ORDER ON MOTION TO QUASH SUBPOENAS
Defendant, President Barack Obama, a candidate seeking the Democratic nomination for the office of the President of the United States, has filed a motion to quash the subpoena compelling his attendance at the hearing on January 26, 2012.
...
However, Defendant fails to provide any legal authority to support his motion to quash the subpoena to attend.
...
Thus, the argument regarding service is without merit.
Accordingly, Defendant's motion to quash is denied.
SO ORDERED, this the 20th day of January, 2012.

[narciso]

They ought to change the name to WolfRam and Heart, the Devil's Advocates in 'Angel'

http://www.jammiewf.com/2012/eric-holder-connected-to-illegal-foreclosures-of-active-duty-servicemembers/

[daddy]

When I lived in the Bay Area in California, if you put a wet paintbrush into your garbage you were subject to a $10,000 fine.

Then they gave us Environmentally friendly plastic containers and mandated that brown and green glass were required to go in one color carton, clear glass in the other, subject to penalty for non-compliance.

So today we learn that a Judge in Fremont (Bay Area California) authorized Solyndra to destroy millions of dollars worth of their glass Solar Panels that you and I already paid for: Bankrupt Solyndra Caught Destroying Brand New Parts

"... CBS 5 caught them destroying millions of dollars worth of parts.
At Solyndra’s sprawling complex in Fremont, workers in white jumpsuits were unwrapping brand new glass tubes used in solar panels last week. They are the latest, most cutting-edge solar technology, and they are being thrown into dumpsters."

"Forklifts brought one pallet after another piled high with the carefully packaged glass. Slowly but surely it all ended up shattered."

"So why is a bankrupt company that owes a fortune to creditors, including American taxpayers, throwing away millions of dollars worth of assets? Solyndra is not commenting."

So I got in trouble for putting brown glass in a clear glass container while Solyndra gets to toss millions of pieces of broken colored glass into dumpsters with forklifts.

[Appalled]

Back to TM's post for a second. TM nails Krugman on capital gains fairly, but TM is ignoring that corporate dividends are now taxed at the 15% rate as well. I do not know what the revenue impact of putting dividends back at ordinary impact would be, but my guess is substantial.

Of course, should that rate go back to 35%, my Mom will bicycle up to Washington, and hit every available politician with her walking cane.

[Clarice]

What does that rat lungworm story tell you about the health benefits of organic farming? First e coli deaths in organic bean sprouts from germany and now rat lungworm from organic farming in Hawaii.

[Danube of Thought]

"I do not know what the revenue impact of putting dividends back at ordinary [income] would be, but my guess is substantial."

One impact will be that it becomes less attractive to invest in securities that pay dividends. any attempt to forecast the ripple effect of that change will be very speculative, but directionally it's a no-brainer.

[narciso]

Is that really right, or only for qualified dividends;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dividend_tax

[Clarice]

neo, it would be a courtesy to the rest of us to explain what that quote is all about. It's from the case challenging Obama's right to appear on the Georgia ballot without proving he meets the constitutional definition of "natural born citizen".

[narciso]

What explains that rocket surgeon's Cheh's move, 'professional courtesy' to the rats.

[bio mom]

NRO just now said that John King told Gingrich ahead of time that he would be asking him that first question about his ex wife. Then later King makes a "big announcement about breaking news. Newt Gingrich has just released his tax returns!" Talk about unbiased journalism. Just who is the Obama-loving MSM promoting? They know Gingrich is a sure loser against Obama.

[Jack is Back!]

DoT,

The Daquiri Lounge on the mezzaine level is where the Daiquiri was invented in 1885 IIRC. When I left for San Francisco but had to return often to DC I used to stay there in the billets. You'd go to the Lounge and you could find yourself sitting next to General or Admiral. Great martini's, of course, since the bartenders were all ex-stewards and those guys know their way around the liquour stores.

[Clarice]

narciso, she's a BLoomberg type meddling in everything and a true credentialed moron.

[Appalled]

narciso:

Qualified dividends are usually dividends on stock held for more than a year. The distinction is similar to the distinction between short-term and long-term capital gains.

[Jack is Back!]

henry and NK,

Part of all this Keystone problem is TransCanda's doing but they were suckered by this guy just like all the rest of us. Read it and weep.

[bio mom]

Gingrich starts by saying that everybody has tragedy in their lives. I consider it a tragedy if you lose your baby (Santorum) or your wife whom you love has multiple sclerosis and then breast cancer (Romney). If your child is diagnosed with lekemia, if your spouse whom you love dies in a traffic accident. All tragedies. I do not consider being a philandering husband who cheated on two wives to be a tragedy, unless you are talking about one of the wives.

[narciso]

The Canadian Menace is wily and subtle, JiB.

[Janet]

This Environmentalism & the Leisure Class article is good. linked at Instapundit

[Chubby]

arggggggghhhh

Drudge: ((OBAMA GRANTS $25M LOAN TO CREATE 38 BIOFUEL JOBS...))

[Jack is Back!]

Costa Concordia as a metaphor or today's Europe and its inevitable collapse as only Mark Steyn can explain it.

Take away line from a maritime expert: "There is no hard rule about women and chldren first, that is from the age of chivalry". What a EuroTwit.

[Old Lurker]

Raising the tax on dividends, as DoT points out, makes owning dividend stocks less attractive. That means companies will have to pay more to raise capital if they are to thrive in this country. Since those dividends were paid from earnings that had already been taxed at the corporate level at the highest corporate tax rate in the world, adding an increase to their cost of capital (by taxing dividends more) on top of absorbing the impact of Obamacare, whatever that is, and then dealing with the regulatory burden which has knocked the US out of the top tier of competitive economies already (see Heritage Report, last week), and one has to wonder why a company would bother.

[daddy]

If anyone happens to catch Dennis Miller today, he is interviewing AB Stoddard, Associate Editor of "The Hill" newspaper.

Very unimpressive. I am startled at her lack of an ability to see what is right in front of her, re: last night's debate and just the candidates in general. I get the feeling that she is so focused on trying to enunciate and stay within the coloring book lines of what the "Washington Insider view du jour" is supposed to be, that she has scant brain-cells left to even pretend to notice that there is a forest.

In contrast to Miller's common sense, wit, and perceptiveness, her thinking and verbal ability sounds to me as if strained thru molasses. Just my opinion.

[matt]

Driving home from LAX this afternoon they had a discussion of Keystone Xl on NPR. The envirowhacko came up with a number of $250-300 billion in subsidies to the oil and gas industries and the guy on the other side came back with a number from the government agency following that sort of thing at $4.4 Billion.

The Left just makes up numbers and hopes they stick. The old Russian Big Lie theory.

[NK]

OL-- dividents are a compelling cap gain rate transaction. They are not a type of the structured deal I mentioned as an abuse--

[Captain Hate]

Whenever AB Stoddard is on the FNS panel, her comments are boilerplate crap completely bereft of any underlying critical thinking.

[Jane]

Neo,

What hearing has Obama been subpoena'd to attend?

[Clarice]

""There is no hard rule about women and chldren first, that is from the age of chivalry". I imagine that rule was from an era that believed , "the hand that rocked the cradle ruled the world"--that is, an era when childrearing and rearing was more highly valued as a social value.

It is why social security provides survivors' benefits to wives and children of deceased workers and why expanding same sex marriage (and its benefits) to people who cannot reproduce makes all the actuarial calculations go kablooey and turns the rationale of such benefits on its head.

[BB Key]

OT , I knew he was gay....From Politico: Obama's repertoire includes Aretha Franklin and Dionne Warwick

[Clarice]

Jane, the challenge in Georgia to his right to appear on the ballot..He was summoned to appear and prove he is a "natural born citizen".

Apparently the standing issue is not relevant when the challenge is made PrIOR to the election.

[daddy]

Too bad Obama didn't shut down DisneyWorld on Gay DisneyWorld Day.

Think he'd have gotten the pass he's received from the MSM for that?

No 'effin' way.

[hit and run]

Clarice:
You know, MayBee is such a darn good debater we ought to get her to run for something.

She would but for the history of publicly displaying (tasteful) nudes of herself.

[Jack is Back!]

Oh, I don't know. Maybe the photographer and pose has something more to do with it than the media.

[Clarice]

Worked in MA, Hit...

[Jack is Back!]

Clarice,

Did you read Steyn's retort to the quote on chivalry?

My grandfather, a proper Englishman told me that "please and thank you will take you around the world" and "every woman is worthy of being a lady".

[hit and run]

Clarice:
Worked in MA, Hit...

Hah!

[daddy]

Quiz Time:

Newt from last night:

"And I am appalled that you would begin a presidential debate on a topic like that."

In what movie did what actress and character, answering similar charges, say this:

"and I am APPALLED at this OUTRAGEOUS IN-QUISITION!"

Hint: It wasn't our Melinda.

[centralcal]

AB Stoddard also has that prissy way with her mouth, as though it pains her lips as her vapid words try to escape their prison.

[hit and run]

Alert: Hit Hits Hartford, The Sequel!

I'm headed to Hartford in a couple of weeks.

This is a repeat of a trip I made almost exactly a year ago -- in which I met my all time favorite Jane. She and I have been emailing today about repeating that rendezvous, but thought that with a little lead time -- perhaps other CT JOMers or those from surrounding environs might be coaxed into a meetup. Unfortunately,I will not have a car,so my mobility is measured in yards not miles. And also unfortunately,it's a one day meeting,so my time is short.

But -- anyone interested in more details can email me . . . [email protected]

Or if you already know my other email address (the one made up of my real name that I choose not to post here) you can use that as well. Either one.

Representatives are standing by.

[daddy]

Captain,

RE: AB Stoddard...Great minds. She showed me nothing, and I had no idea who she was. I think Dennis was happy to get her off the air and talk to someone intelligent, like any one of his callers.

JiB,

If only we'd bow to Obama like he does to the Saudi King, then he wouldn't have to raise his head so high and arch his neck. So ultimately it's our fault don't ya' know.

[Captain Hate]

daddy, CC gets her right too; be glad you experienced her on radio.

I know there's been some subdued grousing on the editorial pages but the jugeared fellow has really gotten a pass from the MFM on the Keystone deal. Imagine the headlines if GWB had done it: Bush to Unions and Consumers: Go to Hell.

[Threadkiller]

Days ago somebody here said:
"blah, blah, blah...The Five...blah, blah...made a good point...blah..."

I took that to mean the show got better.

My mistake.

[daddy]

Quiz Time Answer:

Her "...and I am APPALLED" was stuck in my head but I couldn't remember where it came from, and then (unlike AB Stoddard) I saw the light: Bab's Streisand--ughh, from On A Clear Day.

Can't find a video clip but from memory it's the only "Appalled" I can think of that equals Newt's "Appalled".

Apologies Appalled:)

[daddy]

Full quote:

"My name... is Melinda. Melinda Winifred Wayne Tentrees. And I am *appalled* and *stunned* at this outrageous inquisition!"

[Barbara]

"Mister Quarterback, you and your Teammates just lost the SuperBowl. What are you losers going to do next?"

"We're going to Napoleonland!" (LUN)

Daddy,

How obscene. How very French. I wonder if the proposed amusement park will include hundreds of thousand of little graves to represent all those who were killed or lost their lives to satisfy Napoleon's greedy ego.

[Threadkiller]

With a name like that, Barbara, I can't imagine height restrictions on any of the rides.

[daddy]

Pre-DogWalk Wildlife update:

1) Endangered Stellar Sea Lions are being eaten by semi-Endangered Orca's. WildLife guys flummoxed by Mother Nature not sticking to their narrative.

2) Arctic Ribbon Seal, that only lives in super cold water and on Ice Flows, flops onto homeowner's dock in Seattle

WildLife guys flummoxed by Mother Nature not sticking to their narrative.

Bye.

[daddy]

" I can't imagine height restrictions on any of the rides."

Ha! TK.

[Barbara]

TK,

Your comment is priceless, as usual!