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March 22, 2012

Comments

Melinda Romanoff

Thanks, TC.

Clarice

Twice now the SCOTUS has UNANIMOUSLY slapped back Administration overreaching, I don't recall such a thing ever happening .

And now maestro, a little Circus Music, please:

MSNBC analyst and Democratic strategist Karen Finney smeared Rush Limbaugh and several Republican presidential candidates on Thursday, charging that the racist hate of these conservatives had "lethal consequences" in the case of Trayvon Martin,

Jack is Back!

Trayvon could only look like Bammy if Michele was white, right?

Maybe it was Michelle who has redactded that part:)

matt

Can we get a new thread TM? I'm getting carpal tunnel syndrome clicking all the way through to the last comment.

rse

Clarice-

That story porch linked to above about the leaked WH memo indicates they are using the legal crt approach described in that book you used for your pieces Sunday before last.

That's the storytelling narrative the authors criticized so.

Ignatz

This may sound like hyperbole but if Barrycare is upheld I can see it setting us on a very similar road that Dredd Scott did; the court and government forcing on its citizens a problem insoluble by ordinary constitutional means.

Clarice

Today, MOTUS takes us back to remember 2 yrs ago when Obamacare was passed and asks why no kobe sliders, caviar and champagne today?http://www.michellesmirror.com/2010/03/ayes-have-it.html

Thomas Collins

NK, I agree with your 12:32 PM post on Obama's focus on Medicaid expansion. In his dreams Obama couldn't have obtained better Federal Nannystate expansion law than the Medicaid provisions of ObamaCare.

Ranger

Okay, lawyers, is it possible for the SCOTUS to hold the orals next week and then decide not to render a judgement?

Ok, not a lawyer, but I actually know the answer to this one. They can, because one of the questions before the court is if those bringing the cases have standing, as the issues at question do not actually exist right now, and will not exist until 2014 when those parts of the law go into effect. So, the court could hear all the arguments, and then rule that none of the plantifs have standing until 2014 and dismiss all the cases.

centralcal

I think this whole Obama comment thing was a complete set up. The only question Obama allowed just happened to be asked by Mike V. an NBC correspondent.

He knew NBC and MSNBC would run with it. As Clarice says - a little Circus Music, please.

matt

when you have Scalia and Thomas chomping at the bit and a president who pointedly and publicly insulted the Court, I'm not sure how they will not find this to be a massive intrusion and overreach.

The path forward would allow just about anything to be labeled as allowable under the Commerce Clause and with the statist trend and the EPA slapdown, it seems that the majority on the court would be inclined to limit federal power grabs.

The case was kicked upstairs in fast forward and I don't know how detailed the many arguments and decisions have been, but it would seem that the history of the case has left and right pretty well at odds in their interpretations.

Gus

First. Anyone who beieves that Zimmerman is LIKELY guilty of manslaughter is adding their hown HOME SPUN WISDOM to the case. Florida LAW is all that matters here. I will defer to anyone who has special knowledge of the law in Florida. Until then, an opinion on what Zimmerman may or may not be guilty of is RIDICULOUS. The level of MEDIA and POLITICAL rhetoric has no bearing on the facts and the law.
Second. Althouse is a fool. Living in a cesspool of liberalism. MADISON and NYC, in fact, 2 cesspools or is that cesspi?
3)Jim Ryan is a couple cans short of a 6pack.

Danube of Thought

"I think the Sol Gen will steer argument that way"

I have never heard of an attorney steering a Supreme Court argument. You don't get to make speeches, and you don't start repeating what's in your brief. What happens is that you get peppered non-stop with questions, and they're all tough.

Clarice

Ig, do you suppose the SCOTUS is too dim to see that? Do you suppose they do not recall how it was passed? Normally, the Ct does not consider public opinion and defers to the legislative branch,why should they do so in this case? Let's review, some legislative skullduggery to avoid normal review by the House, a criminal prosecution of a key Senator by criminal tactics employed by the executive branch, public opinion against the Act growing day by day, a huge number of states filing to overturn the law, Sebelius kindly offering us a preview of what this overreach will mean ..

Ranger

In his dreams Obama couldn't have obtained better Federal Nannystate expansion law than the Medicaid provisions of ObamaCare.

Well, yes and no. IIRC, Medicaid is technically a voluntary program, and states can simply opt out of it. Not an option right now politically, but once Obamacare kicks in, it will explode state budgets to the point of forcing either very high tax increases, or major cuts in other state programs. At that point, once it gets painful enough for enough local interests, you may be states start to opt out of Medicaid.

NK

Ranger-- what you say @12:55 is most true about the mandate. The 'tax' enforcing the mandate doesn't go into effect until 2014, so the standing/ripeness argument under the anti-injunction statute is no challenge until the tax is assessed.

ThomasC-- back in 2009-2010, 'Bam had ONLY 1 bottomline with Congress-- the Medicaid stays-- no negotiation. That is clearly his top priority. He'll veto any repeal by a Repub Congress, and Congress will refuse to approprate Medicaid funds. It will kinda be Dred Scott all over again.

Danube of Thought

"Marginalized by whom?The Soros-funded attack machine?The liberal-dominated 'mainstream media'? Fox News-dominated conservative media? The Obama White House?"

All those and many more, TK. You simply fail to grasp the scope of the conspiracy you are facing. It began as long ago as 1961, and its tentacles are everywhere. Even Bill Clinton backed off when his friend was assassinated.

And now Leo Donofrio has given up the practice of law. Coincidence? I don't think so....

NK

DoT-- you state a truism, the Court decides in the end. But don't kid yourself, for lots of institutional reasons, the Sol Gen has alot of influence on decisions. If the Sol Gen is weak on the mandate, but givs no concession on Medicaid, the Court will have strong reason to not interfere with Medicaid expansion even if the mandate falls.

Rick Ballard

Ignatz,

I would argue that the worldwide OPM crop failure is an insoluble problem which is going to move us to unfamiliar political ground sooner than we anticipate. The oligarchy constituting our credentialed moronacracy has failed and driving Sarah Palin from the field for the moment will not stem the tide of populism for very long.

The Nine Ninnies (five of them, at any rate) may decree whatever they wish and engage in whatever legal sophistry that the Oracle of the Emanating Penumbra suggests but they have neither spell nor incantation strong enough to raise the crop of OPM necessary to maintain the fantasy.

Threadkiller

From 2009:

" GLENN: From high above Times Square in Midtown Manhattan, third most listened to show in all of America. Hello, you sick twisted freak. Welcome to the program. We go to Christopher monk con, otherwise known as Lord Monckton. I mean, call him Christopher or do I have to call him Lord? I can’t remember what we decided last time we spoke. Lord Monckton

LORD MONCKTON: It’s very simple.

GLENN: How are you, sir?

LORD MONCKTON: I am fine. Are you on one knee and wearing white gloves and touching your forearm?

GLENN: Of course I am, my lege.

LORD MONCKTON: In that case you may carry on.

GLENN: So you are quite the hot topic on Twitter and on the Internet. If we could just find a way to control the Internet oh, I remember. Net neutrality. We’ll get to that Thursday. Anyway, you are quite the topic because of this new global climate treaty that is coming in December"

http://www.glennbeck.com/content/articles/article/196/32085/

Will Glenn still be touching himself when he hears Monckton voice? This new hot topic isn't Glenn's style.

Sound the retreat!

Jack is Back!

Heh!

Tammy Bruce tweets the snark of the day:

If we had a POTUS, he'd look like Ronald Reagan

NK

OT-- I get a kick out of Bloomberg Online reports. They are such obvious 'Bam propaganda. Below is a link to Wind Turbine operators receiving guidelines 'Help' from the Interior Dept on how to avoid prosecution for slaughtering 440,000 migratory birds/year. can you imagine Interior 'helping' the petroleum industry in case of spills that kill 44 birds? This whole 'Bam outfit is a ChiTown political shakedown mafia. Outrage.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-03-23/u-s-issues-guidelines-to-help-wind-farm-builders-protect-eagles.html

Captain Hate

Gus, Jim R was making statements for jimmyk to include in his list of dumbass things the left takes as "fact".

Gus

How many sea birds were shown covered in oil after the gulf oil spill that Obama ignored for a month and a half before kicking ass and stepping on necks.
I guar-an-damn-tee, that oil didn't kill a half million birds.

Melinda Romanoff

NK-

Embedded video just for you. Bookmark it for later, if you must.

Threadkiller

What component of the "conspiracy" happened in '61?

Ignatz

--Ig, do you suppose the SCOTUS is too dim to see that? Do you suppose they do not recall how it was passed?--

clarice, I think they do see that, which is one reason I think they'll knock it down.
But I've been wrong more often than not, especially when rating the perspicacity of DC denizens, so have to consider the result of them doing what to me seems unthinkable.

--Ignatz,

I would argue that the worldwide OPM crop failure is an insoluble problem which is going to move us to unfamiliar political ground sooner than we anticipate.--

I think you're right, Rick.
I sometimes feel like sensible Romans must have felt just before Alaric opened the eyes of the less sensible as to the real state of the Empire, to say nothing of the Emperor's wardrobe.

Gus

Capn Hate and Jim R. My apologies. I missed the sarc. IN fact, I had hoped the comments I saw both yesterday and today were made in jest.
Did our TROLL friend Ben Cleo have a meltdown yesterday or something? Anyone know?

Jim Ryan

CH, no, I am guilty of opining on insufficient evidence about the Martin-Zimmerman tragedy and am being duly taken to the woodshed for it.

centralcal

I am not a Starbucks habitué, so this impacts me not at all - NRO's Maggie Gallagher has this interesting factoid today:

I was at the annual board meeting of the Church of Starbucks in Seattle on Wednesday.

Honestly that’s what it felt like. It opened with a self-congratulatory pitch by Howard Schultz on how terrible life in America is, and how much he is helping, then it melded smoothly into a “our values are the barrier to entry for other coffee companies” bottom line.

I was there with the National Organization for Marriage, to ask Howard Schultz if it’s really true that gay marriage is “core” to Starbucks’s brand and its values.

He said yes.

Okay, I know most will zoom in on the gay marriage point - which is the MAIN point - however I was struck more by Maggie's reporting that Mr. Schultz talking about how terrible life in America is. Good effing grief.

Threadkiller

I think Ranger made the comment that rocked Ben's world, Gus.

" Dana, we all know why you don't answer questions. You consider questions where an honest answer won't support your arguments to be "rhetorical tricks." Its a very typical post-modernest attitude. You are nothing but a nihilist posing as an intelectual. Try looking at the world without your blinders on, and you might discover amazing things.

Posted by: Ranger | March 22, 2012 at 03:34 PM"

Thomas Collins

CC, life is terrible, so a charismatic leader backed by a bureaucracy that will implement the nannystate, and including a few favored elites in the "private" sector, is needed to set the rest of us straight.

Rick Ballard

TC,

I believe the Greeks called such a leader a "tyrant" and his reign was known as "tyranny". Always forward thinking, those Greeks.

Captain Hate

Tammy Bruce is skewering Furkel (no f-bombs yet) for concentrating on the Florida case and no comment about 10 people in Chicago murdered in gang violence including a little girl, who doesn't look like him. Plus anybody's son who looks like Furkel probably doesn't have a job in the Furkel economy and can't afford the increase in gas prices. Don't tell Althouse this and destroy her illusions.

Thomas Collins

Rick, isn't it just sweet that today's social scientists, with their vaunted pattern variables and sophisticated statistical techniques and their smug assurance in the fact/value distinction, have no clue about what tyranny is, while the ancient Greeks and Italians had it figured out over 2,000 years ago.

NK

MelR-- I'll watch video tonight. Oooo-PA....

PS: Growing up I personally witnessed every Greek quirk in the movie "My Big Fat Greek Wedding" except for the Windex. When I saw the movie in posh Westport Ct, the liberal audience pitied my wife because I was laughing hysterically when nothing of apparent interest was happening in the movie.

centralcal

BRAVO MayBee!!! Commenting at Althouse (the Trayvon thread I mentioned above), MayBee writes:

Josh Earnest whispered something pre-press briefing today to the NBC reporter who asked the question.

Heh.
Planted. The "my son would look like him" was rehearsed. Gross.

Ignatz

--When I saw the movie in posh Westport Ct, the liberal audience pitied my wife because I was laughing hysterically when nothing of apparent interest was happening in the movie.--

Have had the same experience NK, although in our case we were translating to our own Italian and my wife's Portegy idiosyncrasies from the original Greek.

centralcal

Oh and there is a NEW THREAD for those of you suffering carpal tunnel.

Ignatz

--I think Ranger made the comment that rocked Ben's world, Gus.--

Yeah but he went all Dog Day Afternoon on narciso for something about other shootings similar to the Zimmerman thing.

Thomas Collins

Axelplouffe will let no opportunity pass. The "my son would look like him" comment might, in the mind of Axelplouffe, increase the Dade County turnout (registered and unregistered voters) enough to make the difference in Florida.

By the way, I guess the young couple in the LUNed article wouldn't look like any of Obama's kids, so they aren't worthy of mention.

NK

Ig-- Every woorrd essce hava a Greek root. Kimono? essce a woorrrd from the Greek woorrd whata mean weenter-- cheemona-- beecause in weenter, essce cold and uneeda de robe-- Kimono!

Gus

I saw a picture of Trayvon Martin, and he DID NOT HAVE JUMBO EARS.

Jane

I can't help but thinking if roles were reversed (Trayver and Zimmerman) no one would have even noticed.

Sue

Jane,

Or if Zimmerman had been shot by a man who looked white. The story was supposed to be white man shot black boy. It is turning into Hispanic man shot black boy. Oops. Not quite the impact they were looking for.

Gus

What was the Kenyan Konmans' point about Trayvon "looking" like him?

Should the case be handled differently if the dead teen looked like Romney, and what is Sotomayor or Salazar had a son, who would that son look like??
Trick question.
Jerry Rivers is the asnwer.

Ignatz

LOL, NK.

Will Collier

I call BS on that "fact check." When Bush opened up offshore drilling in 2008, the price of oil started dropping THE NEXT DAY, and didn't stop dropping until the next January.

http://pjmedia.com/blog/thanks-to-obama-gas-jumps-in-a-flash/

jimmyk

'Bam of course will use overule to attack Romney-- How-- NOT about health care, but he'll scream elect Romney and you'll have more evil WHITE MEN on the SCOTUS-- EVIL CONSERVATIVE white men in black robes

After SCOTUS repeals a law that 60% or more hate? I don't think that will fly.

As I said before, this is win-win for conservatives. Overrule is a huge victory in itself of course, but also a public slapdown of Barry and his overreaching pals in Congress. And if they uphold, it will be clear to the public that the only way Obamacare goes is if Obama goes.

John Salmento

Applogies in advance for the long comment, but the more I think about this article the more pissed off I get. In my opinion the Associated Press is very bias and is using a really crappy statistical analysis to justify their conclusion.

I don't doubt that the Associated Press's statistical analysis shows what they claim, but their conclusions are very misleading. If I had to guess, I bet they just looked at the monthly US domestic oil production and the inflation adjusted gasoline price and did a standard correlation analysis using US domestic oil production as the only variable. If that is what they did I am not surprised that the data showed no statistical correlation.

The main problem with this type of analysis is that the price of gasoline is depended upon many factors. The most important and glaring missing parameter is oil/gasoline demand. Every economics and many journalist know that both supply and demand effects the price, so deliberately analyzing one side will likely give misleading conclusions.

Since they only looked at one variable the effects of all the other variables on the price of gasoline hides the affect of US domestic production. Since the Associated Press knew that US domestic oil production was only one of many variables, they should have known or could have easily found out that this analysis on this complicated a problem was crap.

A much better analysis they could have performed was a multi-variable correlation/regression analysis where the US domestic oil production was just one parameter. This analysis is not hard; most statistical package can do it. To improve it even more they could have modeled the time delaying effect between the price and production. Everyone knows that the price of anything including gasoline goes up much faster than it comes down. This effect alone can often give misleading conclusion with a standard, one variable correlation analysis since it doesn't account for any time delay.

Some of the parameters that affect gasoline prices that they didn't account for are taxes, (federal, state, property), non US production, prices of natural gas & coal, regulations (emissions in particular), tensions in the Mideast, and most importantly oil demand. I bet that if they did a multi-variable regression analysis with a way to account for the time delay they would have seen that the price of gasoline is negatively correlated with US domestic oil production. In other words if US domestic oil production goes up, the price of gasoline will be lower than what it would have been without the increase in US domestic oil production. This doesn't necessarily mean that the price would go down.

Even their article hints that gasoline is negatively correlated with US domestic oil production, see these quotes from the article.
"American oil production is about 11 percent of the world's output, so even if the U.S. were to increase its oil production by 50 percent — that is more than drilling in the Arctic, increased public-lands and offshore drilling, and the Canadian pipeline would provide — it would at most cut gas prices by 10 percent." So an increase in US oil production would tend to either lower the rate of increase or reduce the price.

"If drilling activity rises around the globe for a sustained period of time, gasoline prices can fall as that new supply eventually finds its way to market, but the U.S. can't do it alone, oil analysts say." This supports my statement about the time delay effect and it supports my statement that increasing production (including US production) tends to eventually reduce gasoline prices or doesn't let the price of gasoline go up as much.

I am not arguing that oil companies, OPEC, and speculators don't manipulate the price of gasoline/oil, but the AP's conclusion that increasing US domestic oil production doesn't lower the price of gasoline is crap.

Porchlight

Rick, isn't it just sweet that today's social scientists, with their vaunted pattern variables and sophisticated statistical techniques and their smug assurance in the fact/value distinction, have no clue about what tyranny is, while the ancient Greeks and Italians had it figured out over 2,000 years ago.

The reason they have no clue is that the men who fought the Revolution and created the country delivered us and much of the world from tyranny for a couple of hundred plus years.

The prosperity and freedom we have enjoyed have also caused us to forget the story of we got here in the first place.

Present company excluded of course.

The default state of mankind is under the bootheel.

Blog Reader in Brooklyn

Yep,

The Brooklyn race needs to be watched and the prior comment is not entirely off-topic. This was a 3 to 1 registered Democratic district, with a vote straight down the middle with the Repub ahead about 150 votes. It is down to absentee voting and the Dems will be trying to everything they can to save face (Fidler is dead politically unless Dem clubs carve out an artificial taxpayer provided position for him which they do regularly among their own). This was not a referendum on energy or Obamacare but it goes deeper than that. It was younger entrepreneurial voters who want to get ahead rebelling against the old line blue state liberals and their Occupy allies who hate the Russians, more religiously minded Jews and minority group members who dare to try to better themselves in tough economic times and succeed. Scratch a phony greenie or liberal and you will find someone just aching to set up the social order in favor of themselves.

The old guard can spin and spin but we can vote and vote!!!

Danube of Thought

1961 was when the conspirators planted the phony birth announcements in the two Honolulu newspapers.

jimmyk

I bet that if they did a multi-variable regression analysis with a way to account for the time delay they would have seen that the price of gasoline is negatively correlated with US domestic oil production.

It's worse than that, John. You can't use basic regression (no matter how many variables you throw in) when cause and effect (supply and demand) work in both directions. There are techniques to deal with this, but they go far beyond what any journalist is likely to know.

NK

JimmyK/JohnC-- the August 2008-January 2009 crude price collapse ($130/BarrelWTI to $35/Barrel) was a perfect storm of demand destruction, supply increases and MOST IMPORTANTLY Dollar Appreciation and Risk reallocation. I say MOST importantly, because investors took money out of all risk assets-- OIL chiefly and bought the Dollar and T-Bonds as a flight to 'quality'. That collapsed the DOLLAR price of oil 75%. That's a major reason I think current prices are primarily a monetary event, not supply/demand. WTI price has tripled since 2009, but demand is still depressed, and supply is growing. How is that explained any other way than the Fed and 'Bam debasing the Dollar with Debt and QE.

cathyf

I think what would be interesting is to look at the oil and gasoline futures against the Intrade price of Obama's re-election.

MarkO

"1961 was when the conspirators planted the phony birth announcements in the two Honolulu newspapers."

I disagree. It was the year that Roger Maris purportedly broke Ruth's single season home run record. The entire episode was part of a signal to all of a new world order. Then, the Yankees won the Series.

In a post hoc world, this works as well as anything.

jimmyk

NK, I think that's an important element for sure. Maybe the most important. But it's not either/or. Greater supply could still reduce the price from whatever it would have been. I'm sympathetic to the view that the price impact of more U.S. supply is small, because it is a world market. But you can't answer that question by any simple kind of regression analysis.

NK

JimmyK- completely agree with that. The markets today are hedging on 'Bam keeping US supply off market, and trying to limit Canada exporting Tar Sands, coupled with 'Bam/Bernanke whacking the US Dollar, investors have no choice but to bid up oil in Dollar valuation. Get rid of 'Bam, stop excessive deficit spending, open up US/canada supply, Dollar price of oil will crash to $50-60/WTI Barrel, $70/Brent IMO.

Threadkiller

The action in '61 is only important for someone trying to gain "citizenship" only.

" The State of Hawaii The state of Hawaii’s role in this cannot be neglected for several reasons. Hawaii has a couple of legal Achilles heels of its own. It was well known at the time, that any person could register the birth of a child in the state on a late form with only the signature of a witness (Hawaii Department of Health no longer uses this form). This means of obtaining Hawaiian documents was used frequently by immigrants who needed assistance from the state (such as welfare), and Hawaii needed the federal dollars registering those births brought to the state. Second, and perhaps most importantly, Federal laws with regard to Hawaii had been written to allow a baby receiving state documents to be declared a Citizen of the United States without being subject to the Jurisdiction of the United StatesPersons born in Hawaii: A person born in Hawaii on or after August 12, 1898, and before April 30, 1900, is declared to be a citizen of the United States as of April 30, 1900. A person born in Hawaii on or after April 30, 1900, is a citizen of the United States at birth. A person who was a citizen of the Republic of Hawaii on August 12, 1898, is declared to be a citizen of the United States as of April 30, 1900. Missing from this US Statute is the following which appears in the 14th Amendment: “All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside.” This disparity created a legal loophole which is specific to Hawaii: A child born in Hawaii, regardless of whether or not they were born in the state and subject to the Jurisdiction of the United States, automatically gained US Citizenship. This is the only state in the United States where this condition existed. This is why Hawaii is so vitally important to Obama, and could explain why it is important enough to forge birth documents for. It is why Obama’s birth is being alleged to have occurred there instead of somewhere like Washington State or elsewhere, and is so vitally important."

As far as the conspiracy to make him eligible for POTUS, that started much, much later.

Pretending it all started 50 years ago is another red herring to avoid the obvious flaws in Obama's story.

I Won

The Florida police acted stupidly.

MarkO

But, TK, what of Roger Maris? Born in Hibbing, that links to Bob Dylan who wrote Blowin' in the Wind and that was popular in 1961 among liberals and it was sung at the MLK address at the Lincoln Memorial. What more do you need?

NK

TK -- I hesitate , but I'll say this. I think you are just flat wrong on the meaning of "natural born citizen." That said, I agree that the whole 'Bam life story has never been told, and many parts that have been disclosed are demonstrably false. Couple that with the whole Tom Ayers sponsoring, Bill Ayers ghostwriting, Geitner pere Ford Foundation connection to Indonesia, 1980 USPO post mark stuff-- something is very wrong. This whole life story could be a fraud and a scam-- I refuse to believe it is, but it could be.

Ignatz

--TK -- I hesitate , but I'll say this. I think you are just flat wrong on the meaning of "natural born citizen."--

I believe 'flat wrong' is an overstatement.
From what I've read I'd say most people would have agreed with TK's definition up to the mid 1800's at the earliest, probably up until Wong Kim Ark.
I have almost no doubt TK's view is deemed flat wrong by both the case law and most observers now.
Of course at one time not too many people would have credited the assertion that the Constitution would someday somehow be read to allow the Federal government to compel the states to allow abortion.
Anyone who now claims it doesn't is similarly 'flat wrong'.

NK

Ig-- what about the other point that TK and others raise-- the facts of 'Bam's life? Since 2008 I believed that 'Bam was born in Honolulu and hidng embarassing info-- applying for scholarships as a 'foreign student' and terrible grades. Now-- I'm not so sure; the Tom Ayers stuff, the USPO postmark, the dubious BC PDF. Something seems very wrong.

Neo

I've noticed some comments around by those against the Keystone XL pipeline that just make me scratch my head. The case against Keystone XL seems to be something about "how the crude that come from tar sands is especially hard to clean up" on the moderate end and then transitioning to the story that "the carbon from Middle East oil has gotten global warming as far as we are today and they can't have 'two more Middle Easts' worth of carbon coming from North American tar sands" on the more radical end.

While I'm happy to hear that there is a boatload of oil in North America, has anybody any more information about the "harder to clean up" thing ?

boris

you are just flat wrong on the meaning of "natural born citizen."

There is a SCOTUS ruling explicitly defining the term in Minor. Some say it's not part of their ruling, but that's not the point ... they clearly thought they knew what it meant at the time.

If the position is nobody really knows what the term means then it does not follow from that position that TK is "flat wrong on the meaning".

If the postion is that it REALLY means something else ... there is nothing in the way of evidence for that. TK's opinion is no more "flat wrong" than yours.

NK

Neo-- never heard 'hard to clean up' about the pipeline route. Now removing the oil from the Alberta Tar Sands is a very messy industrial process and costly to do it in an environmentally responsible way. Once the oil is removed and piped? I heard nothing about that.

Melinda Romanoff

NK-

Hedge funds and their patron large banks suddenly losing repo financing would be at least $80 bucks of that trade. I watched that part of it. Then we get the market "momentum aspect" took it the next thirty through fair value of around $65. You had to be there to know the panic in dem dere hallowed halls of capitalism.

NK

MelR-- I believe it, I don't trade I just watch screens. Do you believe with depressed demand 'fair value' today (if supply and Dollar expectations changed) for WTI is $50-60/Barrel?

Doug Wenzel

Another thing to keep in mind is that if production increased enough, the effect on our balance of payments, oil industry employment, and state and federal severance payments,royalty income, and taxes would be enough that the higher prices would only be a nuisance, even if they didn't decrease.

We could end up like Norway. I'm sure they don't mind that prices are high, because there's plenty of oil money to go around.

NK

DougW-- I disagree with that. Look at what Bernanke said today-- greater household spending is needed to make the recovery self sustaining and for fed to remove ZIRP. How can household spending increase if fuel/food costs from the debased Dollar suck up disposable income?

NK

PS: In response to Bernanke, I guess consumers can get new credit cards and max those out? ... Nah, not a good idea.

Melinda Romanoff

No dollar change, hike the minimum margin and you'll see $85 overnight.

Dollar goes bid? $45, but that would mean a massive algo reprogram. Not happening until someone blows up.

NK

MelR-- so increasing margin requirements would deleverage WTI that much? OK, why doesn't 'Bam do that pronto?

NK

MelR-- BTW: I can see Euro and Yen blowing up relative to the Dollar if the Fed stopped the darned QE and said rates will rise to historically normal levels and the Congress stopped $1TRILLION/year debt.

Ignatz

--While I'm happy to hear that there is a boatload of oil in North America, has anybody any more information about the "harder to clean up" thing ?--

Oil sands, and in the US oil shale, are presently mined not drilled for, so there is massive reclamation involved after the massive effort to expose and extract it.

NK

Ig-- correct, but that doesn't affect pipeline transport once the sands are mined and oil extracted. ne c'est pas?

Ignatz

--Ig-- what about the other point that TK and others raise-- the facts of 'Bam's life?--

Who knows what that faker has manufactured about his past? Possibly everything.
Not sure any of it would have any bearing on the definition of 'natural born'.

Ignatz

--Ig-- correct, but that doesn't affect pipeline transport once the sands are mined and oil extracted. ne c'est pas?--

Little to none although the thicker the crude the more heat is needed to keep it's viscosity pipeline compatible, I believe, but I understood Neo's question to be regarding extraction of North America's dominant form of petroleum.

NK

Ig-- what if he were born in Canada, or Indonesia, then traveled to Honolulu after birth? does that affect 'natural born' at all? complete non-issue?

NK

Neo-- sorry I thought you were asking about pipeline transport risks.

Melinda Romanoff

Margin hikes are CFTC(GS) and exchange (CME) fief, with a very, very light touch from the Fed. Remember, you are talking one of the busiest pits in the world. Don't kill the golden goose.

NK

even if the ChiTown Golden Goose is killing American Consumers?

hit and run

Ignatz:
Oil sands, and in the US oil shale, are presently mined not drilled for, so there is massive reclamation involved after the massive effort to expose and extract it.


I deal with Suncor in what I do. I think they have a good approach to extraction and reclamation.

Melinda Romanoff

Physically trades in NY. Part of the COMEX. I'll post a link this weekend to the Fed's Commitments Of Traders Report that will show you precisely who owns that trade. And if the "local" component is even close to 5% of the Open Interest, I'll eat two hats. (You need to know the distinction between "Volume" and Open Interest" when dealing with commodities.)

More later.

NK

MelR-- I'll read with interest.

Ignatz

--Ig-- what if he were born in Canada, or Indonesia, then traveled to Honolulu after birth? does that affect 'natural born' at all? complete non-issue?--

Not to me. The issue is the status of his parents.
I can't conceive of the founders making a person ineligible if he had two parents who were citizens by birth and happened to take a week long vacation to Canada and the kid popped out. Vacations don't create dual loyalties or, usually, dual citizenship, a parent from another country does or at least can.

NK

MelR-- here it is-- Corzine is a Fraud and a perjurer-- he ordered MFH's Treasurer to steal $200M of customer money and cover JPM overdrafts. He is a crook, confiscate his Passport. http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-03-23/mf-global-s-corzine-ordered-funds-moved-to-jpmorgan-memo-says.html

NK

Ig-- well Barack Sr. was NEVER a US citizen-- that's part of TK's position. Ann Dunham was always a US citizen, if she was outside the US when Barry was born, it doesn't change Barry's US citizen status, but does it affect "natural born"?

boris

"can't conceive of the founders making a person ineligible if he had two parents who were citizens by birth and happened to take a week long vacation to Canada and the kid popped out"

That seems like a fairness argument.

Also parents being citizens is all the Minor definition of the term requires, nothing about them being "citizens by birth".

Melinda Romanoff

NK-

As I said before, he will not be indicted by this Administration.

Danube of Thought

"As far as the conspiracy to make him eligible for POTUS, that started much, much later."

The conspirators had multiple goals. They always do.

Melinda Romanoff

And thanks for the Bberg link!

Threadkiller

The naturalization act of 1790 differed from the act of 1795 by the stripping of "natural born citizen" as the status given to a child born overseas of citizen parents(plural). It was replaced with the status of "citizen" only.

NK

MelR-- I swear to almighty Gaia, if the House refers the info to the DOJ, and Holder doesn't appoint Special Counsel to impanel a Grand Jury forthwith, I won't be responsible for my actions. It would be 1776 all over again.

NK

TK-- 1795 Amendment-- THAT is relevant to a citizen born abroad and then brought into the US. It didn't apply to McCain because the Canal Zone WAS US territory.

Danube of Thought

If he were born in Indonesia and brought thereafter to the U.S., under Title 8 U.S. Code Section 1401(g) he was a citizen at birth. Under the common law of England dating back to 1608, that means he's a natural-born citizen.

The conspirators were either ignorant of the law, or had different motives for getting the false announcements published in the newspapers.

Threadkiller

If she was outside the US for Barry's birth, she could not have conferred us citizenship to Barry. Statues at the time were specific about how much time she had to spend in the US.

Melinda Romanoff

I actually expect O'Brien to be muzzled in front of the Committee.

If you want a hint, watch Ald. Derrick Smith's recent press.

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Wilson/Plame