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March 29, 2012

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narciso

I'm sure that wasn't what Gus intended, Jim, lol.

Rob Crawford

If nothing else, this case shows exactly how stupid the right's "an armed society is a polite society'' is.

No, bubu, what it shows is that we don't yet have enough people carrying. Or, at least, that Florida should consider allowing open carry.

Trayvon(tm) thought he could beat someone up with no risk to himself. If he'd have known his target was armed, would he have made the same judgement? If he'd known there was a high probability that his target was armed, would he have made the same decisions?

What we've really learned is that you take 12 hours or so to assemble a wad of ignorance, half-truths, lies, and bigotry and think it's a profound statement.

Rob Crawford

And I wonder why Zimmerman's cheering section isn't outraged that police didn't perform a fuller investigation

Because there was nothing else to learn?

Life isn't CSI, bubu.

narciso

That's been the M.O. TM, for much of the last two weeks, a tiny scrap escapes the memory hole, but it's replaced with another one preferably by Zelaya's spokesperson, Ms. Robles.

Now it's raining, so visibility is not at a premium, Trayvon's wearing a hoodie, it actually makes more sense to be running on the grass, less chance of an injury, that's what Eric and Callie would likely note, (neither Mac nor whoever replaced Grissom would show,)

not_bubarooni

the 'war on women' meme failed.

this is the substitute.

Strawman Cometh

RC, Great to see you on back at the JOM

Strawman Cometh

It's kind of interesting how the women at this group are bending over backwards

You're dreaming.

to present a defence (sic) for a man who..

Shot the "child" who was attempting to beat him to death?

who hunted down and murdered a child in cold blood.

"Facts not in evidence" is inadequate for this steaming pile.


because.....he's,what, white?White-ish?

No, because he was doing his job defending his community which was suffering from a large number of break-ins.


Whatever the reason I just find it interesting.

Would you had such interest in why and how this is being promoted on your cohorts.

bunkerbuster

Unsurprisingly, Rob shows us how unwilling/unable wingnuts are to think past the Dirty Harry gun fantasy fetish template.
Faced with a nationwide escalation of racial tensions over what would have been fisticuffs at the very worst, his answer is more guns and/or more openly-carried guns would have prevented the confrontation in the first place.
Sure, we can envision a scenario in which 17-year-olds do whatever 250-pound neighborhood vigilantes with a records of wife-beating and resisting arrest tells them to do -- since the 17-year-olds know the neighborhood vigilante is armed.
But the point is, we have to envision that scenario, because it doesn't exist anywhere in real life and never has.
On the other hand, we have a millions of people living in places where firearms are widely used for personal protection. And almost all of those places are extremely dangerous -- virtually war zones.
Which makes perfect sense, of course. When you up the ante of violence, it accrues to the violent criminal's advantage, given he is willing and able to be even more violent as a matter of course.
So when neighborhood watch guys get pistols, thugs get machine guns and become that much more likely to shoot first, ask questions later. When neighborhood vigilantes have to carry around machine guns, you're living in Baluchistan, or northern Mexico.
The Zimmerman precedent raises the arms-race ante even further.
In a world where 17-year-old boys walking their neighborhood know that, at any time, an armed vigilante can confront them and, possibly, gun them down without arrest, law-abiding kids cower in their homes or rely on thugs to protect them.
The Zimmerman precedent is a recipe for gang warfare and a huge political loser for gun fetishists and identity conservatives. They've blown this one bigtime and, while the events are tragic, we should all be thankful for the role blogs like this one play in exposing/fomenting the self-destructive ruminations of identity conservatism.
If gun rights advocates had any sense at all, they'd recognize how awful Zimmerman's are for their cause.
The killing of Martin is a horrific, inflamed example of exactly why we need tighter controls on handguns and, more importantly, why we can't expect police to fully investigate shootings like this, so we better do a lot more to prevent them in the first place, or we'll be living with a lot more of them.

Deborah

I am new here and have read all the posts and the main one I want to answer is the speculative one about being followed that night as a female. I have been followed before and turned into the nearest business (no cell phones at the time lol), but if it was me that night, I would have called 911 the second I believed I was being followed. Or if, failing that (no cell phone), I would have run as fast as I could to my home then called 911.

BR

Welcome to JOM, Deborah :)

Agarttha

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-03-31/news/os-trayvon-martin-george-zimmerman-911-20120331_1_voice-identification-expert-reasonable-scientific-certainty

The tapes show that someone--not Zimmerman--was screaming and pleading for help. Then a gunshot, and no more screaming.

I'd love to see how the 'self-defense' guys try to spin this one.

Agarttha

"What makes you think Zimmerman followed anyone Dave?"

Dispatcher: "Are you following him?"
Zimmerman: "Yes"

Agarttha

Zimmerman admits to following Trayvon on the police tapes.

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-03-31/news/os-trayvon-martin-george-zimmerman-911-20120331_1_voice-identification-expert-reasonable-scientific-certainty

Apparently the last moments of Trayvon Martin went something like this: Someone--not Zimmermann--was screaming and pleading for help. Then a gunshot. And then Trayvon is dead, and Zimmerman walks.

I'd like to see how the gun-nuts spin this one.

I'm actually a Liberal so shoot me.

What no one mentions and what no tv station has ever shown is the FOX interview done the very next day with the guy whose back yard was the site of the shooting. He was outside at one point, saw the "Man with the red sweater" on the bottom screaming for help.
The home owner yelled "Stop it! I'm callin' the cops", went back, in locked his patio door, ran upstairs to get his phone, heard shots and saw "the guy who beating the other guy up" laying face down on the grass."
They're keeping this guy under wraps.

root

Here is a Video that attempts to illustrate the timeline
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oBZKd9S-pL4

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